Hey man,

I think you saw me using this team earlier today. It's a skarmbliss team that's pretty standard that is centered around having and removing spikes (hence the bulky gar and claydol) I've found some success with but have struggled against a lot of pretty common stuff. Before, I had a mixmence instead of the pert but you and be both noticed my team having tough time with big physical attackers. Now that I have the pert though I feel like I don't have much of a physical presence and have struggled getting by special walls.

I'd love some feedback

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Roar

Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Swampert (Gengar) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 8 SpA / 72 SpD / 176 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Punch
- Thunderbolt
- Hypnosis
- Will-O-Wisp

Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Toxic
- Protect

hclat, Jan 5, 2017 EditReportReply
 CALLOUS
CALLOUS
YouTube.com/CALLOUSnarrates
Member

Alright, let's see...

Let's start with positive things/what the team does right so you don't feel like I'm shitting on you =p-

1. Has phazing, including a non-trappable phazer.

2. No blatantly terrible movesets anywhere. I could nitpick things, but moves are generally right.

3. Has at least one of each major resistance/immunity.

4. Has a reliable status absorber.

5. Has most OU threats defensively covered. A little shaky against things like Heracross and Gyarados (when paired with Magneton) but not blatantly dead in the water to anything I can think of.

All and all you've done a pretty decent job, especially considering you're pretty new to all this and you're teambuilding on your own.

Now lets get to the not so good things... The first things that stand out to me are-

1. Inability to reliably deal with physical threats. Adding the Swampert fixes this issue so if you're keeping him you can forget this one. :)

2. Not great EVs in a few places. Easy fix.

3. Semi-confused team. CB Metagross, specifically, is very strange on an otherwise extremely defensive team.

4. No answer whatsoever to last Pokes. Last Poke Cune and Last Poke Lax would both be big issues. You have no Leech Seed, Perish Song, Boom, etc.

5. May lack a win condition. You can not lose for a long time, but actually closing games might be a little trickier. With no Sand and only CM Bliss as a setup Poke, you will likely have trouble taking down a team of sturdy Pokemon.

6. Running Skarm without Dug or your own Magnet leaves you quite vulnerable to Magneton, which is very popular right now. Sometimes this is okay and it's a risk you run, but Mag teams are definitely going to be tough matchups, even more so than usual because you're relying heavily on Spikes to deal damage.

7. No good Pert switch in at all. That's a must fix.



Now onto fixing things...

The Poke that far and away stands out to me as strange and the thing I'd change if a Poke needs to be changed, which is probably the case, is the Metagross. The team seems super defensive other than Metagross and Idk that a CB user, other than TTar (which adds Sand, which is very beneficial to you) really fits here. I understand the desire for physical presence but I don't think a CB user is optimal. If you stick with Meta, I'd run a Leftovers set. Agiligross or Mixed Meta are both probably better here. But, as I said, Idk that I'd keep Meta at all.

We'll come back to that, but let's talk about Blissey. CM Bliss fell out of favor for a few reasons and I don't think it's optimal for this team either. Let me give a few examples/scenarios... Let's say you're against an opposing CM Bliss. What is your switch in? It has to be your own Bliss, right? I guess Pert could come in, but you lose the 1v1 and you're going to eat a +1 Ice Beam on the way out every time, and you can only do that so many times, especially if you have to step on Spikes when you come in. Furthermore, Pert, especially without Protect, has to be kept healthy to deal with physical threats. The other option I guess is Metagross. Again, Spikes vulnerable, and even without Spikes your opponent will start predicting this and hitting it with TBolt on the way in and it will get worn rather quickly. I don't see this as a reliable answer over time. So you'd have to go to your own Bliss. Is your answer to CM Bliss really CM Bliss? It's 50/50 at best. If you lose the coin flip you lose the game. That's also assuming they don't have a Dugtrio to kill your Bliss even if you win the flip and it's also assuming they don't have other special threats waiting in the wings for after this transaction.

Let's go over another scenario with the Bliss. Let's say they have a generic CM threat, such as Cune or Raikou. In Cune's case, assuming it's CM/Surf/Rest/Roar, it'll boost up a time or two with you and then Roar you out and you'd be on the backfoot. It will be paired with Spikes, so stuff won't be able to come in freely, and even if you bring Pert in on Rest and Roar it away that only deals with it temporarily as opposed to actually kill this Pokemon. How does this team actually KO this Pokemon? Cune is often paired with Mag too so Skarm is not a reliable answer (not that Skarm can KO it anyway). In the Raikou example again you're just coming in and boosting up with it. With no Sand in play it will be quite durable. If it's too boosted when you come in on it you will struggle to break its Subs and you have a pretty decent chance to lose the 1v1. Obviously, should you lose the 1v1 you will be swept by it. The other problem with using CM Bliss as your answer to other CM threats, whether it be Rachi, Cune, Raikou, Celebi, whatever... Is that you're one crit away from losing the game on the spot. BS happens in Pokemon as you well know and if they happen to crit you or whatever other BS, you lose. In general, boosting is generally not the best answer to boosting, as you're relying very heavily on RNG and BS not going against you, which is never what you want to count on.

The Bliss set I like the most overall right now is Seismic Toss (this is very important against several CM threats, such as Celebi and Raikou, because your Ice Beams will be very underwhelming against them after they start boosting), Toxic (crucial to put a meaningful clock on CM threats, such as Celebi and Cune. It also lets you threaten all bulky Waters and win matchups against things like Pert and Milo 1v1 that you would otherwise lose), Softboiled and Ice Beam/Flamethrower/Thunderbolt based on what the team needs. Ice Beam is the most common choice as it lets Bliss defend itself against Dugtrio and also makes it a reliable secondary answer to Mence and Flygon, but both others have merit. Tbolt hits Gyara and gives additional help vs Cune and it's better than Ice Beam against Steels, Flamethrower hits Celebi just as much as Ice Beam would but it also hits Forre, hits Metagross harder on switch ins and hits Rachi. Obviously they all hit Gengar the same. I find this set to be extremely reliable and durable and its quite safe against almost all special threats. Rachi is the one tricky one because you cannot get it with Toxic and it can Wish away your S Toss damage, but that just means you need a reliable Rachi answer elsewhere on the team.

As for lack of physical presence... Well, TTar is definitely the generic and obvious solution as you definitely benefit from the Sand too. DD Tar or SubPunch Tar are probably good fits for your team. This team doesn't benefit much from Pursuit Tar (the most popular variant in the tournament scene right now) as your Spinner already hurts Gengar and you've got a legit special cleaner (Gengar) already and it'd be pretty redundant. If you wanted something other than Tar I'd think Gyarados would be my next choice. I suggest these two because you're pretty sketchy against opposing Skarmories so your sweeper would really want Taunt or some other way to legitimately hurt Skarm or it too would simply be walled. DD Mence, for example, would get hit with Toxic before being blown away. Skarm is a serious pain in the ass for you as it stands. It wins the 1v1 vs Claydol, Pert is Spikes bait, Cleric Bliss does not threaten it enough to make it switch and your own Skarm isn't exactly an answer to opposing Skarms. Really it's just Gengar that wins the 1v1. Perhaps you should go Taunt + WoW Gar as opposed to double status, though I definitely get the appeal of Hypnosis right now since Pursuit Tar is absolutely everywhere. Which brings me to...

Perhaps the last spot should simply be Dugtrio. It gives you a Heracross answer, which you're sketchy against. It revenges Mag which you otherwise just have to put up with after it traps and kills your Skarm. It helps against several special threats, such as Rachi/Celebi, though special threats are much less of a problem if you go with Cleric Bliss as I suggested. The issue with Duggie as the last Poke is you still don't have answers for last Pokes as pointed out and I still think you lack a reliable win condition and will have issues actually closing out games.

Here's one team that I, as well as a couple buddies, have used to go 1500+ on ladder pretty easily-

Suicune @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Roar
- Surf

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Protect
- Spikes
- Toxic
- Whirlwind

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunderbolt

Claydol @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 168 Def / 32 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Rapid Spin

Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Band
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 16 SDef / 220 Spd
IVs: 30 SDef / 30 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Rock Slide

Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 32 SAtk / 176 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Punch
- Taunt
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp



It's remarkably similar to what you have now. It has a legit win condition in Cune and it has the Duggie addition we talked about. This is basically a better/upgraded version of your team. It is not without its problems, however...

It too has no reliable answer to last Pokemon. It can definitely lose from up 4-1 to a last Poke Cune or Lax. This definitely came up...

Likewise, special threats were still a problem. We used this back when CM Bliss was good but if I used this team today I'd absolutely opt for SToss/Ice Beam/Toxic/Softboiled. This would help SIGNIFICANTLY and make the team even better, but the last Poke problem would remain...

Here's a team that I built that addresses this problem. Again, it's remarkably similar to yours which is why I'm using it in this example-

Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 24 HP / 240 Atk / 156 Def / 88 Spd
IVs: 30 SDef / 30 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Focus Punch
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Rock Slide

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 152 SDef / 104 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Whirlwind

Claydol @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 132 Def / 68 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Rapid Spin

Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 28 SAtk / 180 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fire Punch
- Giga Drain
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Def / 152 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Protect
- Toxic
- Wish

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 Spd
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Protect


This team solves the last Poke issue as when the Poke Rests CB TTar can come in on the Rest turn and kill it before it wakes. Also, I went WishBliss as passing Wish to CB TTar is super strong and keeps it around. Multiple problems are solved with this team.

However, like anything, it too has weaknesses. If they have Magneton, oh well. I've got nothing for it. Magneton wasn't absolutely everywhere when this team was built the way it is now, so updates for the current meta may be needed. Since we're running a separate Spiker and Spinner, and Forre is never an option without Pursuit Tar or some other extremely reliable Gengar answer, this leaves us with only a few choices. I'd probably look at swapping the Skarmory and Claydol spots for Cloyster and Magneton or Cloyster and Dugtrio. Magnet probably benefits the team more, as Pert and Cloyster both very much appreciate Skarm not being present.

That would leave the team looking like this-

Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 24 HP / 240 Atk / 156 Def / 88 Spd
IVs: 30 SDef / 30 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Focus Punch
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Rock Slide

Cloyster (M) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Explosion
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes

Magneton @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SAtk / 184 Spd
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Protect
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic

Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 28 SAtk / 180 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fire Punch
- Giga Drain
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Def / 152 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Protect
- Toxic
- Wish

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 Spd
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Roar


I suppose I'll leave it at that. I specifically made a point to not lay out one and only one option because I want you to fix it in a way you're comfortable with. I just wanted to point things out and give you things to think about. If you keep Claydol, definitely change its EVs. It doesn't do meaningful damage to anything even with Special Attack investment and is much better suited being the best wall it can be. Special Defense helps it a lot both in the Gar 1v1 matchup and in general when it has to eat a Surf or an Ice Beam.

If you want help on EVs on any Pokemon, or have questions about any of the EVs I'm using in the sample Pokemon/teams I listed, don't hesitate to ask. Likewise, any further or specific questions you may have, ask!

CALLOUS, Jan 6, 2017 ReportReply
 CALLOUS
CALLOUS
YouTube.com/CALLOUSnarrates
Member

Another way to go that I thought about just now in the shower, and I think I like better, is keep the Metagross but change the set- Meteor Mash, HP Fire, Psychic, Boom (Boom needed for Last Pokes and HP Fire needed because it needs to be able to threaten Skarm since you don't have Magnet) with these EVs-

EVs: 128 HP / 128 Atk / 252 SAtk
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)

Then cut Gar and add TTar. Pursuit Tar is absolutely everywhere right now so Gar is in a weird place, especially without Dugtrio. Also, spinners are less common than they once were. Also, even if they do Spin, who cares? You have much more offensive presence so you don't rely as heavily on Spikes and you can always put them back down if you must. Also, with both Meta and TTar, you have the ability to double switch in on spinners and really punish them if they opt to spin. For example, TTar in on Starmie to Crunch it if it spins or Meta in on Forre to HP Fire it.

CALLOUS, Jan 6, 2017 ReportReply
 hclat
hclat
Member

My new team with some of the adjustments you suggested:
added ttar for gengar, changed blissey set, changed skarm set, made metagross mixed

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Focus Punch
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Roar

Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 128 HP / 128 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Explosion

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Ice Beam
- Toxic

Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Roar
- Toxic
- Taunt

hclat, Jan 6, 2017 EditReportReply

CALLOUS
CALLOUS
YouTube.com/CALLOUSnarrates
Member

Metagross @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 128 HP / 128 Atk / 252 SAtk
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Explosion
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Meteor Mash
- Psychic

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SAtk
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Roar

Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 16 HP / 188 Atk / 120 Def / 184 Spd
IVs: 30 SDef / 30 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Rock Slide

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 236 SAtk / 20 Spd
IVs: 0 Atk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic

Claydol @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 132 Def / 68 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Rapid Spin

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
IVs: 0 Atk
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Protect
- Spikes
- Toxic
- Whirlwind





Fixed EVs and movesets.

Pert and Metagross are the same. CB Pokes aren't great in the meta so I'd use a different kind of Tar. The reason is because Protect is absolutely everywhere. It's super common, standard even, on Pert, Skarmory, Magneton and others. With Tar I'd either go DD or Sub + Focus Punch. I provided DD Tar EVs. It lives Duggie EQ. If you opt for Sub + Focus Punch instead I can give you EVs for that too. Bliss HP EVs do very little. Use the spread I provided. It 1hkos Dugtrio and outspeeds almost every Swampert, which is big since your team can use a little extra help vs Pert. If you werent as Pert vulnerable as you are an alternative spread would be 235 Special Attack stat, Max Defense and the remainder in HP, Bold. That number 1hkos Duggie with 1 layer of Spikes down and 1hkos Mence in Sand. Claydol as stated before gets very little from a Special Attack investment since its offensive stats are so poor. This one is much tankier and more durable, handles bulky Waters better, handles Gar MUCH better with the Special Defense (and beating Gar is a huge part of why you're running Claydol) and it wins that 1v1 matchup virtually always. Skarm I'd definitely recommend standard (provided) over Taunt. It's far better against the field and your team doesn't benefit much from Taunt on non-sweepers. You'd basically just be stopping Spikes and if you have reliable spinner, who cares? The standard Skarm is one of the most dominant Pokemon in the competitive meta and will work wonders for you.

CALLOUS, Jan 6, 2017 ReportReply
hclat
hclat
Member

After playing with this team some, I've found my biggest problems are getting tempo and switching into and dealing with bulky waters. Right now, bliss is really the only thing I can switch into them, so if it gets low or killed by something like an explosion I'm really in trouble. Starmie in particular has been ruining me. Right now I'm resorting to blowing up gross on the opposing bulky waters or hoping I can poison one (which doesn't really solve the starmie issue), which gets the job done, but I wish I had a better way to threaten stuff like swampert, suicune and starmie.
One fix I thought about was using my own starmie with thunderbolt and some other move instead of claydol. Since I have pert and skarmory I haven't really needed his ground+levitate typing and he really doesn't help against water types.
Do you think that's a good idea? Or can you think of any other easy fixes to this?

hclat, Jan 6, 2017 EditReportReply
 CALLOUS
CALLOUS
YouTube.com/CALLOUSnarrates
Member

Could simply go Pert to Cune. Cune beats basically any other bulky water. You aren't missing the Rock resist since both Claydol and Metagross resist Rock. CM/Surf/Roar/Rest Max HP, 222 Speed stat to outspeed Adamant TTar, the rest in Defense. Bold nature. Gives you a legit win condition too.

CALLOUS, Jan 6, 2017 ReportReply
 hclat
hclat
Member

Switched cune in for pert and am finding the team a lot easier to use.

hclat, Jan 7, 2017 EditReportReply
 CALLOUS
CALLOUS
YouTube.com/CALLOUSnarrates
Member

Glad to hear it. I see you've climbed up the ladder quite a bit too. Does that mean the team is working well for you? I certainly hope so.

CALLOUS, Jan 7, 2017 ReportReply
 hclat
hclat
Member

Yeah, the team is working well for me. Definitely a lot better than when i had pert instead of cune and way way better than where it started.

I've started putting together another team, with a lead subpass celebi and double trappers. I haven't played anyone super good with it, only a couple ladder games against decent opponents and I've had some pretty mixed results, often based on whether their teams match up well against mine. Do you think a team like this could be viable and if so, how can I better support/recieve subs from other pokes on this team.

Right now, snorlax and pert are the defensive core of the team. I chose thick fat on lax to tank ice and fire moves aimed at celebi, but it might be sketchy without rest. The main thing I've struggled with is doing considerable damage when I do manage to pass a sub. Obviously, I can trap a lot of stuff with mag and duggy but I've been largely unable to do much damage when I end up passing to the pert, lax, or mence. I've been tempted to switch the mence to something that better beats bulky waters like a medicham or heracross, but I worry that losing the intimidate will make my team way more sweepable by stuff like enemy heracross.

So I guess the main question is whether you think the premise of a team centered around hitting/trapping stuff from behind subs is viable, and if so, how should I support the main core of magneton, dugtrio, and celebi.


Here's the team as of now:

celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 80 SpD / 140 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Giga Drain

(Not really sure what to do for the last move. Calm mind, psychic, recover all seem like they'd help. Also have no idea how to EV this, since Speed and bulk is gonna be the key to celebi, but it might also benefit from having less than max hp if its trying to subseed spam.)

magneton @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Toxic
- Substitute

trap lord (Dugtrio) (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Rock Slide

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 116 HP / 120 Atk / 96 Def / 176 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Self-Destruct
- Focus Punch
- Body Slam
- Shadow Ball

Maybe I should go for a curse and rest set or another special wall? I liked the idea of focus punching from behind a passed sub but I haven't found it too effective.

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Roar

Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

hclat, Jan 9, 2017 EditReportReply
 CALLOUS
CALLOUS
YouTube.com/CALLOUSnarrates
Member

I have a team remarkably similar to this. I used it vs BKC in that set on YouTube, which obviously indicates I truly believe in the team if I'm willing to use it in such an important match, and won.

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Protect
- Spikes
- Toxic
- Whirlwind

Suicune @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 80 HP / 132 Def / 120 SAtk / 176 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Roar
- Surf

Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 124 HP / 68 Atk / 136 Def / 180 SDef
IVs: 30 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Body Slam
- Curse
- Hidden Power [Steel]
- Rest

Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Band
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
IVs: 30 SDef / 30 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Rock Slide

Magneton @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 68 HP / 252 SAtk / 188 Spd
IVs: 30 HP / 30 Def
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic

Celebi @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Leech Seed
- Psychic
- Recover




Roar on Cune is safe as it gives non-trappable phazer. SubCune is a better offensive option if you feel safe without said phazer. He'd be 404 HP, 244 Speed, rest in Special Attack, Modest.

CALLOUS, Jan 9, 2017 ReportReply
 CALLOUS
CALLOUS
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Alternatively for an even more offensive Cune you could go 250 Speed Stat, max Special Attack, dump the remainder into HP. CM/Surf/Ice Beam/Sub Modest.

CALLOUS, Jan 9, 2017 ReportReply
 CALLOUS
CALLOUS
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updated Magneton EVs

Magneton @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 140 SpD / 116 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Spe
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic

CALLOUS, Jan 10, 2017 ReportReply
 hclat
hclat
Member

A couple questions:
Is HP steel on lax just a personal preference or is it here because it synergizes better than shadow ball and eq with the team? I understand the benefits of it, hitting both tar and gar but I've basically never seen it before.
And is adamant duggy just straight up better than jolly in your opinion? I've always run jolly to be able to trap anything from 338 t0 372 speed.

hclat, Jan 10, 2017 EditReportReply
 CALLOUS
CALLOUS
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HP Steel is, as you said, to hit both TTar and Gengar as opposed to Earthquake or Shadow Ball which would only hit one or the other. There really isnt anything else to it. If you blatantly prefer one or the other feel free to change it.

I don't necessarily think Adamant Dugtrio is better than Jolly as an in general, no. There are some blatant pros and cons to it. It's Adamant on this team because the team has a reliable special wall, Snorlax, that wins the 1v1 against the things that Jolly would beat but Adamant does not, such as Starmie and Raikou. Celebi is also strong vs Starmie. Hitting Tar harder on this team definitely matters as this team is cheating a little bit against it. Other benefits, such as hitting Bliss harder, is not as big of a deal since Lax and Celebi both beat it anyway. 404 HP Cune also wrecks Bliss if you opt for that build.

CALLOUS, Jan 11, 2017 ReportReply
 hclat
hclat
Member

Ok here's a sand veil team I used to use a lot and I actually laddered pretty high with it. Basically the point of the team is to paralyze everything in sight and let cacturne act almost as a sweeper.
I know you're a big fan of cacturne, but I haven't seen anyone other than myself run this set on it, and I think it's actually pretty good. Other than the tar and the porygon, there's not a ton of rhyme or reason to the rest of the pokemon: just generic defensive pokes, spikes support helps with all the switches subseed forces, and a ton of paralysis support.
Of course, this team is a bit on the gimmicky side, but I've faired solidly against good players on the ladder with it. I'm sure the team could use some polishing, especially the supporters, and most EV spreads are straight off of smogon, so they're probably not ideal as well. As always, I'd love any advice you have for this team.


Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 240 HP / 8 Def / 180 SpA / 48 SpD / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
- Pursuit
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Rock Slide

Pursuit trapper both because I have a forre and because my cacturne set can't touch gengar

RNGesus (Cacturne) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Focus Punch
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Hidden Power [Bug]


I know most cacturne run some combo of hp dark, needle arm, spikes, and thunder punch, but I really like running it physical with focus punch and hp bug, which lets it wreck special walls and decimates celebi, which it can almost always switch in on, and I'm pretty sure that no standard pokemon can stall it out. Skarm usually dies to 2 focus punches if it's seeded. It loses coverage on stuff like zapdos and mence but they still take enough from a focus punch on the switch that its not really a free switch, especially with sand up.

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Explosion
- Earthquake

I've toyed around with zap cannon on this just for even more para support but its a kinda shitty move and forre can't really stay in on much that para would do a bunch against other than physical sweepers that try to set up in its face.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Rest
- thunder wave
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]

I had sleep talk instead of thunder wave when i used this team but I got rid of it due to the new mechanics

leland (Swampert) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Roar

Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Def / 52 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Thunder Wave
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Thunderbolt

Porygon is mainly here to make sure theres not a dug trio around to revenge kill cacturne. Hopefully if the opponent has one they use it on tar and i can trap it.

hclat, Jan 11, 2017 EditReportReply
 CALLOUS
CALLOUS
YouTube.com/CALLOUSnarrates
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Here's my Cacturne team-

Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 184 HP / 252 SAtk / 72 SDef
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Crunch
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Pursuit

As you said, removing Gar is huge for any team with Forre. Forre is dead weight against Gengar. If you feel this team does not need help vs Pert or vs Rachi/Forre/Metagross, either FF or HP Grass could be dropped for Rock Slide. It would, of course, have a very different EV spread. Personally with WoW/Taunt Gar, Cacturne and my own Blissey I'm not concerned about other Blisseys at all so I don't see Rock Slide as needed here. It's a little extra vs Aero though if you feel that's necessary.

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
IVs: 30 SDef / 30 Spd
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes

Forre is straightforward. EQ is essential for Magneton. Boom vs HP Bug is a preference. I like Boom when Gar is going to be reliably removed via Pursuit Tar and we've got two Fire attacks on the team to punish Steels. Boom is also a backup plan for Gyarados and Heracross, both pokes that only Gengar really answers.

Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 32 SAtk / 176 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fire Punch
- Taunt
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp

WoW/Taunt is exceptional on a team so focused on residual damage. This Gar loses to Pursuit Tar, as do most Gar in the current meta, but that's just a risk you run. Fire Punch is needed for Heracross and for punishing Forre, which Taunt also really punishes, and TBolt is basically universal.

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 68 HP / 252 Def / 188 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic

EVed to always 1hko Duggie after 1 layer of Spikes. Has a bit of an HP investment in addition to its max defense to help with Dragons and Aero. Obviously Pert is first option, but this backup option definitely comes in handy. Toxic forces out Offensive Celebi, CM Bliss and things along those lines and also lets you beat Pert and other 1v1 matchups you'd otherwise lose.

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 46 SAtk
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Roar

Just enough Special Attack to always 1hko CB Mence in Sand. Otherwise, it's all in bulk as we need this Pert to be sturdy and stick around as long as possible. It's also our only phazer.

Cacturne (M) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 204 HP / 252 SAtk / 52 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Dark]
- Leech Seed
- Needle Arm
- Substitute

Outspeeds Bliss, Pert, Lax, Regice, -Speed TTar and uninvested Mixed Metagross. Hits like a truck. The bread and butter of the team. Sub/Seed beats all special walls and we have loads of residual damage on top of it. Also, Sub/Seed forces a ton of switches which really abuses Spikes. Needle Arm threatens Pert and Tar in particular and flinch has a ton of synergy with Leech Seed and other residual damage and HP Dark just generically hits almost everything hard. Gengar and Celebi are particularly appealing targets but in general you'll be super impressed by how much damage it deals.





Hyper offensive teams are the worst matchup for this team whereas the slower and more controlling the team is the better the matchup is. Of course, Cacturne sometimes just gets BS wins.

Bliss over Zapdos as you really need a reliable special wall. I can see the argument for T Wave over Toxic if you're really trying to set up Cacturne but in my experiences he does really well exactly as he's set up now and really doesn't need additional support and I see a ton of value in Toxic on Bliss. Without it, you suddenly wouldn't win key matchups such as Pert and CM Bliss anymore, nor could you adequately pressure a large number of sturdy Pokemon, such as Milotic.

Porygon2 seems more of a luxury than a necessity to me. I don't see this team as overly Dugtrio vulnerable. It only revenge kills Cact (revenge, meaning Cact already killed something) if Cact isn't behind a sub and even when it isn't Aerial Ace comes up well short so they need to HP Bug and hope to not get Sand Veil BSed. It CAN kill Bliss but Bliss 1hkos it and would need to be quite low to die to it. Likewise, Duggie has no interest in taking HP Grass from TTar so it needs to be very careful when it tries to come in. Smart play generally deals with Duggie just fine.

CALLOUS, Jan 11, 2017 ReportReply
 hclat
hclat
Member

What do the hp evs on cacturne do? I always ran max speed evs with a neutral nature to hit 209 which beats most meta and tar among other things, which are pretty big imo, plus less hp=subs costing less hp relative to leech seed recovery. Is there a super important attack that the investment lets it survive or is it just for a bit of bulk so it doesnt die from a slight breeze?

hclat, Jan 11, 2017 EditReportReply
 CALLOUS
CALLOUS
YouTube.com/CALLOUSnarrates
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It's just generic bulk that lets it live Ice Beams and HP Flyings and other hits it may take. It also makes better Subs, which sometimes matters. I'm not opposed to making it faster but less HP-invested. Personal preference I suppose. There are several things 200+ would outspeed that its current speed would not but several of them are things like Skarmory and Metagross that you cannot do anything meaningful against even if you're faster. There is potential value in outspeeding, say, DD Tar and Milotic, but it's a tradeoff because you'd no longer necessarily live the HP Bug and Ice Beam respectively.

CALLOUS, Jan 11, 2017 ReportReply
 hclat
hclat
Member

[Gen 3] OU replay: hclat vs. Actaeon12345 - Pokémon Showdown
Fun cacturne v cacturne game I just played with your team

Also serves as proof that physical cacturne is viable since special cacturne gets walled by opposing cacturne :p

hclat, Jan 12, 2017 EditReportReply
 CALLOUS
CALLOUS
YouTube.com/CALLOUSnarrates
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Entertaining stuff :D

CALLOUS, Jan 12, 2017 ReportReply
 hclat
hclat
Member

So on the first team we worked on, I was saying earlier how there might be a gyarados hole on the team, and sure enough I got wrecked by a gyarados the other day. What do you think is the best way to fix this? I was pretty torn between switching flamethrower to thunderbolt on blissey and hp fire to thunder punch on gross. I'm probably gonna put the electric move on blissey at least for now, but do you think both options are workable?

You also mentioned other options like ice beam cune, explosion claydol, drill peck skarm, but I feel like i get too much value from roar, ice beam, and toxic respectively to replace those moves.

hclat, Jan 13, 2017 EditReportReply
 CALLOUS
CALLOUS
YouTube.com/CALLOUSnarrates
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Hmmm... Well, on paper is one thing, but in actuality there are only so many options. ThunderPunch on Metagross, for example, would not actually solve the problem. If you come in on Dragon Dance on the next turn they're faster and they'll Earthquake you. You'll take a ton but live and you'll ThunderPunch them. It will NEVER 1hko and you're left in a position where you'd simply die to the subsequent EQ on the following turn. Meta's best bet is just booming on it.

With Skarm the move you'd be giving up wouldn't be Toxic- it would be Protect. Skarm basically would get better against two Pokes- Gyara and Heracross- and worse against the entire rest of the field. It definitely hurts the team in most matchups. Nevertheless, if you're that worried about Gyara it's something to consider. Note that Gyara is extremely commonly paired with Magneton, so this may not actually be a solution even if you try it.

Bliss with TBolt isn't a terrible idea but again I don't know if this actually solves the problem. If you come in on Dragon Dance and have to step on Spikes to do so, or if Bliss simply isn't at full health to begin with, you'll be in 2hko range and you may not 1hko the Gyara unless you're super invested. It would HELP the problem (and it has several drawbacks that come with losing Flamethrower of course) but it would not SOLVE it.

Claydol doesn't have a lot of options for it. It could HP Electric, which is absurdly janky and underwhelming and hits nothing but Gyara in any noteworthy way. Things it should be good against on paper, like Skarm, it just bounces off. The only other option is Boom. Ice Beam would be the move you'd drop for it, which would mean Blissey or Cune would definitely need Ice Beam since you need to cover Dragons. Again, broken record, Boom very well may not actually kill it in some circumstances.

Cune with Ice Beam is similar to the Bliss example in that it HELPS but it does not SOLVE. Cune can still definitely lose that 1v1 without any hax whatsoever on the other end.

This may not be what you want to hear, but the best thing to do might be to do nothing whatsoever. Accept that you're weak to one specific Poke, accepting that it's a tradeoff for being better against the rest of the field, and move on. You're not absolutely 100% dead in the water to it. Meta can Boom. But an intelligent player should not let this happen. In most cases, yes, you lose to Gyarados. It's up to you if this is acceptable or not. If you REALLY want to cover it, you may have to change a Pokemon completely. Let me know if you want to discuss going down that road.

CALLOUS, Jan 13, 2017 ReportReply
 hclat
hclat
Member

Ok, so I want to make a specially offensive team that capitalizes on removing special walls with explosion gengar and dugtrio. I made a team from scratch, and have made a couple adjustments to it, but I still feel like it's pretty bad right now and i haven't found much success with it on the ladder. Here it is as of now:

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Protect
- Toxic

Gengar @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Explosion
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Fire Punch
- Thunderbolt

Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Rock Slide

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Rapid Spin

Regice @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Roar
- Hidden Power [Grass]


The main pokes I've been switching around are the skarm and the raikou. I'm not sure if the team needs spikes, but it definitely could use the physical bulk and spikes never hurt, plus having gengar to spin block makes spikes more dangerous. Still, it doesn't necessarily do much in terms of strengthening my win condition.
I also thought of using either the leech seed baton pass celebi from one of the teams you gave me or a calm mind baton pass celebi in its place. When I used these sets, I had a suicune in place of the raikou to make up for the physical bulk I lose in not having skarm.
Still, I didn't have really any success with any of these combinations either, so it's possible that either I need to make a switch in the team's core or than I need to use a different combination of pokes. I'd love suggestions for fixing the team in any way.

Also, I have no idea how to EV explosion gengar, whether theres a set of magical Evs for starmie that let it live important stuff, how to best EV regice, etc.

hclat, Jan 18, 2017 EditReportReply
 CALLOUS
CALLOUS
YouTube.com/CALLOUSnarrates
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Well, I can immediately identify the problem- even IF you remove Blissey/special walls, which is far from guaranteed, your stuff simply isn't threatening enough/doesn't pack enough of a punch. You only have ONE Calm Mind Poke!!! Typically these teams are super redundant and have three, sometimes more, CM Pokes. Specifically, Raikou, Cune, Celebi and Jirachi. Lack of threatening sweepers on your current build is definitely the biggest issue.

As a secondary issue, the EVs are terrible, but that's much easier to fix.

The team is going to need a pretty big makeover involving swapping out multiple Pokes, so bare with me...

Unfortunately I am at work right now so I don't have access to copy/pastes of teams or exact EV spreads, but I can certainly dig them up when I get home. In 2012, which admittedly is ancient history at this point, I went undefeated in the Pokemon Online Championship League, which our team ended up winning, with a team of CB Mence, Dugtrio, Offensive Rachi, Offensive Cune, Offensive Raikou, Offensive Celebi. Replays are on YouTube if you're curious. That team is definitely outdated and would need to be brought up to speed for today's metagame, but the concept remains the same.

A Special Attack offensive team needs two things-

-Enough pressure/aggression/potential sweepers to dictate the tempo of the game from start to finish. You also need realistic ways to end the game proactively. Basically, several CM sweepers.

-A semi reliable plan for Lax and Bliss. I specify those two and not Regice because Regice is significantly worse against you than the other two. It's weak to Fire (on my team both Celebi and Jirachi had HP Fire) and it doesn't hit you particularly hard through CM boosts, though you do of course need to be aware of Psych Up. Regice isn't an issue but Lax and Bliss both are.

There's only so much one can do about those Pokes. Surprise Boom (Gengar, Regice or another Special based Poke) + Duggie, surprise Perish trap Poke (Gar, Jynx, Gardevoir, etc) that would bait in a special wall, Spikes/residual damage/wear it down (not recommended as it significantly slows the tempo of the team down), CM Pass away from it to a mixed threat such as Metagross or Mixed Mence (circumstantial and unreliable) or simply try to overwhelm them, possibly 1 for 2 ing yourself in the process, and make up for it later.

The problem is tricky to address because it's so tight on space to begin with and the more you devote to beating special walls the fewer core pieces you have.

There's also the very famous, very outdated Jabba team (named after its creator, world class veteran player JabbaTheGriffin). It's lead Offensive Cune, Raikou, Offensive Celebi, Swampert, Dugtrio, DD Tar. This team has three special sweepers and the plan for Bliss and Lax is quite simple- pound em with CM boosted attacks, die, then let Adamant Dugtrio finish them off. It also has a touch of physical presence in DD Tar to clean up.

So with all this information in mind, what approach would you like to try to take to fix this team?

CALLOUS, Jan 18, 2017 ReportReply
 hclat
hclat
Member

I've been off pokes for a few days since I've been busy, but I made some of the fixes you suggested and have been using this team on the ladder:

Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 24 Atk / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Fire Blast
- Brick Break
- Dragon Claw

Regice @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 100 HP / 156 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Explosion
- Thunder Wave

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Punch

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Happiness: 0
EVs: 104 HP / 252 SpA / 152 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 3 Atk / 30 SpA
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 24 HP / 232 Atk / 24 SpD / 228 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Aerial Ace



So far (like four games, mostly against bad players but one against a decent one) I've won every game with it handily, but I'm sure it still has its issues. Firstly, nobody has any recovery options, and most of the team strongly dislikes sand, but a lot of the pokes could drop an attack for a recover move (wish rachi, rest cune, recover celebi, rest regice). Do you recommend this on any of the pokes?

also, All the movesets and EVs are copy pasted from pokemon perfect or smog, so they may not be optimal, both in general and for team synergy.

I'm pretty weak to dugtrio, which makes me wonder whether i should put sub on jirachi or make my mence a dd mence to have a means to punish opponents for relying on dug trio to revenge kill all my special sweepers (except cune)

Mixmence is the lead basically to threaten most common leads and to not let spiker set up more than one layer early on. However I'm not sure if it is the best option for clearing out checks for my win condition, stopping threats, etc., it's more on the team as an early-game poke, which makes me think it might not be the best option.

Let me know any changes you'd suggest.

hclat, Jan 23, 2017 EditReportReply
 CALLOUS
CALLOUS
YouTube.com/CALLOUSnarrates
Member

Well, it's certainly MUCH better than the first draft you sent me so that's strictly positive.

You'll have to keep playing it and really get some decent testing against decent players in before you really know where the problems are and what you need to address. Even if it's good right now, which it probably is, I'm sure it could use some tuning to be even better.

Nothing stands out as egregiously bad. I think HP Grass on Rachi is probably important. Pert and TTar and both serious issues otherwise. Offensive Celebi/Rachi basically run the same set (CM/Psychic/Fire Attack/Grass Attack). Idk what TBolt on Rachi is super important against. I feel like there are only a select few situations where it would be the optimal move (Cune/Milotic, for example) and Psychic and HP Grass still hit those pretty significantly. I definitely feel beating Pert and TTar versus not beating them outweighs that. Play with it more and let me know though.

Salamence is the only other thing that stands out. I like Mixed Mence A LOT as an in general, but I'm not sure it's necessarily the right fit for this team. It threatens Skarm, which is huge, but otherwise it seems redundant with other things only it doesn't have CM. And Mixed Mence isn't overly threatening to Bliss or Lax. It hits them and the hits matter, but other variations definitely pressure it more. CB Mence may be worth considering, but it comes with the tradeoff of being more vulnerable to sand and not being as good against Skarmory. DD is also an option I guess but that's even worse against Skarmory. I guess DD with Fire Blast is a thing...

Cune is probably fine as it is. No idea if SubCune or the one you're using is better. I see merit to both. Sub/CM/Surf/Ice Beam Cune absolutely WRECKS things like Milotic, anything trying to Toxic or T Wave you such as Porygon2 or Blissey, or things that try to Boom on it but the one you're using, while status vulnerable, chunks the crap out of Vaporeon and other Cunes, which SubCune cannot beat. Totally up to you on your preference there and what kind of thing you feel you're more vulnerable against.

Please do let me know how testing goes. You definitely did a good job improving the team. :)

CALLOUS, Jan 23, 2017 ReportReply
 hclat
hclat
Member

Team's working really well. I haven't found myself struggling against many specific builds/pokes, except for aero, which isn't a huge issue (I can usually switch my way around it).

hclat, Jan 26, 2017 EditReportReply
 CALLOUS
CALLOUS
YouTube.com/CALLOUSnarrates
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Glad to hear that. I very recently made a heavy offense team myself, too. Here it is if you're curious. :)

Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 184 HP / 200 Atk / 124 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Taunt
- Toxic

Raikou @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt

Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt

Celebi @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 100 HP / 252 SAtk / 156 Spd
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Psychic

Flygon (M) @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 192 HP / 76 Atk / 200 SAtk / 40 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Substitute
- Toxic

Suicune @ Leftovers
Shiny: Yes
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 76 HP / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 30 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

CALLOUS, Jan 26, 2017 ReportReply
 CALLOUS
CALLOUS
YouTube.com/CALLOUSnarrates
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Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Atk / 12 Def / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Meteor Mash
- Rock Slide

Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 144 Atk / 108 Def / 8 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Rapid Spin

Magneton @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Protect
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic

Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 76 Atk / 212 Def / 216 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Body Slam
- Curse
- Rest
- Shadow Ball

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Surf

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 32 SpA / 32 SpD / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Leech Seed
- Psychic
- Recover