GERno tribunal judgment

Free

* stand has low end strength
-darg said this in signups
* car feat is something a guy with a sledgehammer could do in ""time""
-almost any feat within four or five orders of magnitude of human striking fits this description
* dura set to tier
* good speed, high for tier
-darg said this in signups
* can't damage usagent
-don't think this is true, low end hits just takes a lot of them to damage usagent AND giorno/ge have higher-end attacks as is advised in the low-end strength section of the tier page in the form of beams
* giorno is immobile despite reacting fast
-this makes the case for being in tier better
* animalshit generally cant hurt heihachi
-ok
 * except some other animalshit that oneshots him
-very true
* niche powers have to go:
 * "life-giving slowdown effect"
-what
 * damage reflect
-if this is 1) what it sounds like and 2) consistent/spammable then it probably isn't in tier
 * GER makes giorno an impenetrable defensive pick
* these powers are rarely used and thus can be minor changed out
* GER is too good against subs while "cheesing the tier to get in"
-without having read much past this this sounds like a thing that is in tier, if the tiersetter is truly not as hindered by it as other subs would be
* GER negates everything that isn't bricking
-based
* GER negates any pick that doesn't brick, some teams will get negated
-I think writing around this actually makes it more interesting tbh
* car analogy
-i guess? but this is more like the rules of the race let you have nitrous and nobody else brought any
* speed scaling is shaky to epitaph
* rock feat exists
-cool
* stipping GER in the way darg has is a major change
-upon reviewing major change rules this is likely true depending on how GER is typically used
-later review with TK/Force example, I think this is generally similar enough to that to be a minor change
* precedent arguments
 * if we let ger in we might have to let other dumb shit in
-possibly true
 * arbitrary super modes
-hard maybe
 * broken stuff that dodges the tier
-i think this is definitionally always going to be allowed, if a character has infinite blunt durability but loses to getting tazed and the tiersetter can taze them, they're in tier even though they negate a bunch of teams
 * shouldnt enable weaseling
-eh
* giorno is still oot by being under tier
 * low strength
 * buffed dura
 * high speed
-i think the car feat at least exists, it would take a human with a sledgehammer a very long time to beat up cars that badly
* ger nopes shield throws, this is negligible
-idk if it's negligible but yeah heihachi and usagent will both just beat you to death
* adding GER gives him a maybe maybe mid-tier offense and infinite defense against a lot of subs
-been over this, i think this is probably just In Tier as we define it
* not worth letting GERno in
* GER change is basically "doesnt work on heihagent"
-this could be true but I don't know that the kind of stip GER has is completely meritless necessarily
* precedent is not the end all be all
* aizawa had limits on power negation, e.g. counterplay
-does GER not? you can just hit him under current stipulations provided you have in-tier durability
* touma
-idk what this is
* accelerator
-barely understand this guy
* maki oze has an upper limit and much fewer picks are fire picks than "not a brick"
-ok
* similar to how the Force/TK has been stipped
-this is the kind of thing I figured GER might be most similar to
 * Force/TK has stippable or intrinsic counterplay, GER does not
-this could be true but also I don't really know if it's necessarily even like a majority of picks that GER completely invalidates
* people will give him GER anyway
-this has nothing to do with his tier status tbh and free states as much here, yea
* tribunal is important and the tier is important
-dont you try to butter me up
* do you want to hear "we let GER through, why not [bullshit]"
-I'm ngl I do think the way GER is stipped is fair in terms of mechanics. Picks should generally be in tier along physical lines.
* 1 way of stipping giorno in with no ger and with the ranged attack
* 1 way of stipping giorno in with ger capped on how many times he can use it bc he's weak


Darg

* yea i put the stats comparisons in the signup post
-tru
* low end tier striking is still in tier striking
-yea
* only consistent side power is healing, animalshit is not consistent enough to factor
* tiersetter and many other characters can just go through the beam to hit giorno/ge
* Epitaph's not being negated when the beam attack happens, it's only after
* speed scaling isn't that shaky, it hits king crimson who is fast
-this seems straightforward and not wrong
* i have been told not having ger affect ts body is a minor change
-when and by whom
-yeah if we treat it like tk/force this seems right
* precedent and like cases dont really have anything to do with giorno being in tier
* "giving giorno a power he has never used outside of ger is a minor change but restricting a power he uses once/twice in ger is a major change"
-could be true