(08-07-14 11:30:53) <@Barabbas`> Mabus: Yeah, a lot, not hordes. Hordes has a different contextual meaning, so it really doesn't fit the description.
(08-07-14 11:30:54) <+ReverendBEM> The woman is dead.
(08-07-14 11:30:54) <+Mabus> particularly the non christian jews, and the presumably terrified romans
(08-07-14 11:31:05) <+ChristianTX> the Virgin Mary, the angels and the saints help us, for they are with Jesus our God and they never die
(08-07-14 11:31:18) <+ReverendBEM> Mary is also deader than a doornail.
(08-07-14 11:31:23) <+{Saint_Philomena}> ReverendBEM According to the Bible, Jesus rose from the dead. and ressuration Saint Philomena or you forget he say he is the ressuration and in life he allready ressuration deaths?
(08-07-14 11:31:31) <@Barabbas`> Why would anyone else mention them. They were recognized, which means they went to people who knew them already.
(08-07-14 11:31:32) <+{Saint_Philomena}> you are forgetting this detail
(08-07-14 11:31:44) <+ChristianTX> also the Cross of JEsus our God has a tremendous power and helps us, she is our friend
(08-07-14 11:32:09) <+ReverendBEM> {Saint_Philomena} Saint Philomena did not rise, Jesus did. Philomena is dead until the resurrection.
(08-07-14 11:32:15) <@Barabbas`> The saints going to the city and being recognized was an affirmation of Christ being the Messiah.
(08-07-14 11:32:18) <+Mabus> christiantx... that is not biblical at all
(08-07-14 11:32:24) <+ReverendBEM> It is necromancy
(08-07-14 11:32:38) * John_doe is now known as IL_Shaman
(08-07-14 11:32:39) <@Barabbas`> The only ones who would have recognized them would be those who were awaiting the Messiah in expectation.
(08-07-14 11:32:46) <+ReverendBEM> Necromancy is forbidden according to the Bible
(08-07-14 11:32:48) <+Banquo> jks: have any good evidence for that claim?
(08-07-14 11:32:50) <+{Saint_Philomena}> ReverendBEM It is so necromancy was you invoque Jesus
(08-07-14 11:33:07) <+ReverendBEM> invoque?
(08-07-14 11:33:08) <+ChristianTX> you forget our bodies are like our shell and there is a soul inside, when we die, the body stays, and our soul departs, in some cases, even the body have the grace and power of JEsus our God like the miracle working relics of St Nicolas in Bari
(08-07-14 11:33:10) <+Mabus> barabbas... they may not have recognized >WHO< they were... but they would have recognized graves becoming empty all of a sudden
(08-07-14 11:33:13) <+{Saint_Philomena}> Jesus brings Saint Philomena to life is the same thing
(08-07-14 11:33:17) <+Mabus> not to mention people climbing out of graves
(08-07-14 11:33:20) <+{Saint_Philomena}> invoque or call
(08-07-14 11:33:26) <+Mabus> thats the kind of thing people notice :)
(08-07-14 11:33:26) <+ReverendBEM> Bible says all are in the grave until resurrection.
(08-07-14 11:33:28) <+Banquo> Mabus: Also, the smell would have probably been pretty bad
(08-07-14 11:33:32) <+ChristianTX> Saints are our brothers in heaven, they help us in His name
(08-07-14 11:33:39) <+ReverendBEM> The saints are dead, they do nothing, they say nothing.
(08-07-14 11:33:42) <+Fruisana> no they dont
(08-07-14 11:33:43) <+ReverendBEM> No one is in heaven.
(08-07-14 11:33:56) <@Barabbas`> Mabus; Perhaps, if they had gone to the graveyard. Is there anything written about any Romans going to the graveyard? Or is this just some idle speculation with nothing for support?
(08-07-14 11:34:07) <+{Saint_Philomena}> ReverendBEM it looks you are not read the same bible... or you gorget that Jesus is the ressuration and allready ressuraton deaths in life?
(08-07-14 11:34:08) <+dioz_mio> fruisana is a blasphemous person
(08-07-14 11:34:27) <+Banquo> Saints being resurrected is idle speculation
(08-07-14 11:34:33) <+ChristianTX> ReverendBEM:  you are wrong
(08-07-14 11:34:33) <+Mabus> barabbas.... its common sense that the graveyards would occaisionally be visited and people would notice empty holes where people had been buried
(08-07-14 11:34:34) <+Fruisana> saints do nothing
(08-07-14 11:34:36) <+ReverendBEM> {Saint_Philomena} I see, you are now making this about me... why do you have to make it personal, stay on the damn topic
(08-07-14 11:34:46) <+ReverendBEM> ChristianTX And now you get personal.
(08-07-14 11:34:50) <+dioz_mio> aussies know nothing
(08-07-14 11:34:54) <+ReverendBEM> Attack the topic, not the debator.
(08-07-14 11:35:01) <+Fruisana> saying someone is wrong is not getting personal
(08-07-14 11:35:12) <+Fruisana> thats just laughable that is
(08-07-14 11:35:17) <+dioz_mio> fruisana, you discredit yourself aussie
(08-07-14 11:35:23) <@Barabbas`> No, the saints being resurrected is written about. They were seen and recognized in the city. So we know they left their graves and went to those who knew them. No reason to believe anything else did or would have happened.
(08-07-14 11:35:27) <+{Saint_Philomena}> ReverendBEM i´m on the topic... you just dont want to see it... and admit that Jesus is the resuartion if you know read the bible... you see that Jesus ressuariotn... and ressuration the Saints like Saint Philomena so it is not necromancy
(08-07-14 11:35:28) <+ChristianTX> ReverendBEM: not because I am just talking about your statement, unlike others, I do not called you anything, I don't judge you at all
(08-07-14 11:35:42) <+ReverendBEM> {Saint_Philomena} goodbye, I warned you
(08-07-14 11:35:49) <+Banquo> Barabbas`: so something was written, therefore it should be conceived as the truth?
(08-07-14 11:35:59) <+ReverendBEM> ChristianTX Get personal get ignored, simple
(08-07-14 11:35:59) <+Mabus> barabbas... well when they were in the city, having left the grave... one can speculate the empty graves should have been noticed
(08-07-14 11:36:03) <+fred__w> thats abiblical  left their graves  or maybe i missed something
(08-07-14 11:36:07) <@Barabbas`> Mabus; You assume the graves were opened by removing the dirt. I don't think the Bible says this. It says the saints left their graves, doesn't say by what means.
(08-07-14 11:36:19) <+ChristianTX> ReverendBEM: that's a good rule
(08-07-14 11:36:27) <+{Saint_Philomena}> ReverendBEM lol personal? you just want to justify with the Bible... but the Bible Justify Saint Philomena
(08-07-14 11:36:32) <+ChristianTX> attack the arguments, not the chatter
(08-07-14 11:36:33) <+ChristianTX> that's my rule
(08-07-14 11:36:38) <+Mabus> barabbas, i don't care how you open them... once you remove the body the dirt sinks.... unless you are suggesting another miracle... levitating dirt? :)
(08-07-14 11:36:43) <+Fruisana> saint philomena isnt mentioned in the bible
(08-07-14 11:36:45) <+ReverendBEM> Barabbas` For all we know, they could have dug their way out
(08-07-14 11:36:56) <@Barabbas`> Banquo: Do you have anything that refutes it? If not, then we can only go with what we have. Do you have something that says they didn't leave their graves?
(08-07-14 11:36:59) <+Mabus> yeah that's not gonna get noticed :)
(08-07-14 11:37:01) <+fred__w> it says on the last day  unless i missed something
(08-07-14 11:37:09) <+ChristianTX> and speaking about getting personal, you all owe {Saint_Philomena} an appology, for you are personally insulting and hurting her, a devoted roman catholic
(08-07-14 11:37:13) <+dioz_mio> aussies are fake christians
(08-07-14 11:37:14) <+fred__w> ..in this discussion i mean
(08-07-14 11:37:20) <+Mabus> barabbas, how about the complete ommission of the event from any other christian... and non christian writter?
(08-07-14 11:37:25) <@Barabbas`> Mabus: You assume a lot, and provide no evidence. As Banquo is fond of saying, where is your evidence.
(08-07-14 11:37:30) <+Mabus> seems even other christians didn't believe it happened
(08-07-14 11:37:30) <+ChristianTX> you can't be scornful
(08-07-14 11:37:47) <+amigojapan> hi again
(08-07-14 11:37:47) <@jks> kjv 1ti 2:5
(08-07-14 11:37:47) <+CancelBot> kjv 1ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
(08-07-14 11:37:52) <+ReverendBEM> amigojapan Hey
(08-07-14 11:37:54) <@jks> hi amigojapan
(08-07-14 11:38:00) <+ReverendBEM> jks Same thing I read.
(08-07-14 11:38:01) <+amigojapan> hi ReverendBEM jks :)
(08-07-14 11:38:09) <@Barabbas`> ReverendBEM: More likely they left the grave the same way Jesus came into the locked room at Pentacost.
(08-07-14 11:38:11) <+ChristianTX> amigojapan: hello again
(08-07-14 11:38:12) <+Banquo> Barabbas`: You realize how flawed that logic is, I hope.
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(08-07-14 11:38:15) <+fred__w> christian  all i did was ask her questions and give advice  i treated her well  if you cant see that  its on you
(08-07-14 11:38:16) <+Banquo> and it is very, very bad
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(08-07-14 11:38:18) <+amigojapan> hi again ChristianTX :)
(08-07-14 11:38:23) <+{Saint_Philomena}> Fruisana you really dont watch lol and understand... ReverendBEM is accuses me for necromancy because i call Saint Philomena... and he wants to try to justify this with bible... but it is not because the Bible Justify  because Jesus is the ressuariont and ressuration persons so he can ressuration Saint Philomena to
(08-07-14 11:38:31) <@jks> ReverendBEM always has been and always will be
(08-07-14 11:38:40) * +Banquo (~Mibbit@cpe-96-29-156-217.swo.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
(08-07-14 11:38:40) <@Barabbas`> Banquo: I guess thats a no, you have nothing of substance to refute Matthew.
(08-07-14 11:38:58) <+Mabus> barabbas which of course makes no sense.... he is physical so you can touch his wounds, he can drink and eat so solid objects stop at his skin... but he walks through walls...
(08-07-14 11:39:00) <+Fruisana>  i didnt understand a word of that sorry {Saint_Philomena}
(08-07-14 11:39:22) <@Barabbas`> Mabus: Yeah, imagine that, a glorified body is different than a physical one.
(08-07-14 11:39:30) <+dioz_mio> Fruisana: aussies speak broken english with the ridiculous accent
(08-07-14 11:39:47) <+Mabus> barrabas.. different smifferent... how can matter stop at the skin... yet the skin travel through walls
(08-07-14 11:39:49) <+ChristianTX> ok {Saint_Philomena} you told ME the story, I understood everything, and I believe.
(08-07-14 11:39:51) <+ReverendBEM> amigojapan I is sore today, worked on trike for about an hour, then rode it around the block, I am sore all over.
(08-07-14 11:39:52) <+Mabus> it's obviously a contradiction
(08-07-14 11:39:56) <+Mabus> even if you will never admit it
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(08-07-14 11:40:05) <@jks> Mabus: Jesus is the only example we know of of the new glorified body
(08-07-14 11:40:07) <+ReverendBEM> amigojapan How's yer day going?
(08-07-14 11:40:12) <+ChristianTX> some things I didn't believe {Saint_Philomena} but I respect your believes
(08-07-14 11:40:25) <+amigojapan> ReverendBEM: I hope I get sleepy soon, I went to sleep too late last night
(08-07-14 11:40:31) * +ChristianTX (~chatzilla@cpe-70-121-192-244.satx.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 31.0/20140716183446])
(08-07-14 11:40:40) <@Barabbas`> Mabus I don't know, and I really don't care. Unlike you, I am not specualting, I am just going by what it says. Now you can speculate all you like, doesn't change what we do know.
(08-07-14 11:40:40) <+{Saint_Philomena}> Fruisana i know my english maby not the bether... but lets me try again... ReverendBEM is accuse me for necromancy... and want to try to justify with the bible.... but that not true... because the bible justify Saint Philomena... because JEsus is the ressuariotion and tell he will resuration persons.
(08-07-14 11:40:57) <+Mabus> barabbas, waht we know is that it contains logical inconsistancies
(08-07-14 11:41:19) <+Banquo> Just because something was written, does not make it true
(08-07-14 11:41:30) <+Mabus> banquo stop speculating!!! :P
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(08-07-14 11:42:04) <@Barabbas`> Banquo: Good, show me some evidence that it isn't true.
(08-07-14 11:42:28) <+Mabus> we've been giving evidence nonstop for the past 20 minutes
(08-07-14 11:42:29) <+Banquo> Barabbas`: Show me evidence that I didn't grow the world's largest eggplant last week
(08-07-14 11:42:40) <+Banquo> I wrote it, so it must be true!!
(08-07-14 11:42:49) <+fred__w> Barabbas`: ahhh  youre talking abouot when christ died  right?
(08-07-14 11:42:50) <+amigojapan> Barabbas`: I am now levitating in my room, and drinking dr pepper from a cup that never gets empty…. is this ture?
(08-07-14 11:42:53) <+ReverendBEM> Barabbas` Written statements are allowed as evidence in courts.
(08-07-14 11:42:58) <@Barabbas`> Mabus: No you have been giving me your assumptions and specualtions based on your limited knowledge of God.
(08-07-14 11:43:04) <+sardaukar> eggplant is grooo
(08-07-14 11:43:05) <+sardaukar> s
(08-07-14 11:43:08) <+Mabus> barabbas, uh huh :)
(08-07-14 11:43:10) <+Banquo> amigojapan: You gor YOUR dr. pepper in MY eggplant!
(08-07-14 11:43:15) <@Barabbas`> amigojapan; I don't know, nor do I care.
(08-07-14 11:43:20) <+ReverendBEM> An affidavit (/ˌæfɨˈdeɪvɨt/ A-fə-DAY-vət) is a written sworn statement of fact voluntarily made by an affiant or deponent under an oath or affirmation administered by a person authorized to do so by law. Such statement is witnessed as to the authenticity of the affiant's signature by a taker of oaths, such as a notary public or commissioner of oaths.
(08-07-14 11:43:27) <+amigojapan> lol Banquo
(08-07-14 11:43:33) <+Mabus> "no other christian author wrote about these saints coming out of their graves"... is specualtion? :P
(08-07-14 11:43:39) <+Banquo> Barabbas`: He wrote it, therefore it must be true since you have no evidence against it
(08-07-14 11:43:39) <+ReverendBEM> Written statments can be evidence.
(08-07-14 11:43:45) <+Mabus> by all means show me the other writtings
(08-07-14 11:44:05) <+ReverendBEM> An affidavit is a type of verified statement or showing, or in other words, it contains a verification, meaning it is under oath or penalty of perjury, and this serves as evidence to its veracity and is required for court proceedings.
(08-07-14 11:44:09) <+amigojapan> Barabbas`: the point is that not just because something is written is it true….   people made up the bible just like my levitation story
(08-07-14 11:44:09) <+fred__w> Barabbas`: ahhh  youre talking about when christ died  right?
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(08-07-14 11:44:34) <+ReverendBEM> amigojapan Yes, however, what is written can be evidence
(08-07-14 11:44:55) <+amigojapan> ReverendBEM: I am not saying it cant be,   but so can it be falsified easily
(08-07-14 11:44:59) <@Barabbas`> fred__w yes, More specifically the saints who were resurrected with him.
(08-07-14 11:45:08) <+fred__w> yes  got it  thx
(08-07-14 11:45:15) <+Mabus> which no one other than matthew mentions
(08-07-14 11:45:19) <+Mabus> literally no one else
(08-07-14 11:45:22) <+Mabus> not paul
(08-07-14 11:45:24) <+Mabus> not mark
(08-07-14 11:45:26) <+Mabus> not luke
(08-07-14 11:45:27) <+Mabus> not john
(08-07-14 11:45:28) <+fred__w> irrelevent
(08-07-14 11:45:30) <+Mabus> no one
(08-07-14 11:45:30) <+ReverendBEM> amigojapan Sure. It can. However, does not change the fact that written statements are used as evidence in a court of law.
(08-07-14 11:45:50) <+amigojapan> thywillbedone: for one, noah’s flood is made up
(08-07-14 11:46:02) <+amigojapan> ReverendBEM: I think we agree
(08-07-14 11:46:05) <+ReverendBEM> amigojapan The whole point is thta written statements can be and are used as evidence.
(08-07-14 11:46:11) <+ReverendBEM> amigojapan We do.
(08-07-14 11:46:12) <@Barabbas`> amigojapan: Point is, do you have anything to refute what was written?  I mean, if it mattered to me I could have someone go to your room and verify what you are saying. All I am asking is for the same verification. We have what is written, but nothing to refute it.
(08-07-14 11:46:38) <+fred__w> mabus  its a fallacy that the gospels have to be mimeographed copies of each other  that is a very popular straw man  but a straw man nonetheless
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(08-07-14 11:47:01) <+ReverendBEM> fred__w I have never seen any two witnesses agree on all points.
(08-07-14 11:47:09) <+Banquo> amigojapan's levitating power only works so long as he is the only one in the room
(08-07-14 11:47:13) <+amigojapan> Barabbas`: well, when the story does not even make sence, like the flood of noah, or has talking animals like a snake (which god could ahve caused a miracle, but why would he even do that, that would be am evil miracle)    it is false
(08-07-14 11:47:14) <+fred__w> exactly
(08-07-14 11:47:18) <+Banquo> ^ wrote it, must be true
(08-07-14 11:47:22) <+Mabus> fred, no one claimed they needed to be.... but its the kind of thing you'd imagine someone else would have mentioned... legions of dead people clawing their way of tombs and visiting the townsfolks is the kind of thing you'd mention
(08-07-14 11:47:25) <+ReverendBEM> And here in the NT, we have the written testimonies of several people.
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(08-07-14 11:47:39) <+ReverendBEM> All of which can be used as evidence.
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(08-07-14 11:47:52) <+Banquo> Mabus: historians or romans would have made mention of it
(08-07-14 11:47:59) <+Mabus> absolutely
(08-07-14 11:48:01) <+fred__w> yes  its in the imagination  its speculation  theres no even air holding it up  it is a straw man  as i noted
(08-07-14 11:48:08) <+amigojapan> thywillbedone: christopher colobus story is more likely than the stories in teh bible,  he used ships, it is not impossible
(08-07-14 11:48:08) <+Banquo> Mabus: i suspect if something actually occurred the romans would flip their lids
(08-07-14 11:48:09) <@Barabbas`> Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Acts all talk about Jesus being resurrected. So, if one person can be resurrected, why not others? While we don't have another account of the other saints being resurrected, we do have multiple accounts of the ressurection of the body of Jesus.
(08-07-14 11:48:12) <+Mabus> you'd have all kinds of letters from home, from roman legions mentioning it
(08-07-14 11:48:21) <+Banquo> yup
(08-07-14 11:48:55) <+Mabus> and it matthew was wrong on this important detail... we can't trust him on other claims
(08-07-14 11:49:28) <@Barabbas`> Banquo Why do you assume the Romans would have said anything? At the time Jesus was a minor character and Christianity even more minor to them. What would give them a reason to give any credit to an upstart like Jesus and his small band of followers?
(08-07-14 11:49:37) <+ReverendBEM> amigojapan Many of us in America call Columbus Day as Devil Day.
(08-07-14 11:49:41) <+fred__w> the main point is that jesus resurrection isnt about the physical act  many were crucified  many rose again  but only one was sinless and qualified to bear the sins of his people  thats the point
(08-07-14 11:49:49) <+Mabus> barabbas, if he resurrected from the dead... thats not a minor thing :)
(08-07-14 11:49:59) <+amigojapan> ReverendBEM: ah, I see, cause it started an invation
(08-07-14 11:50:06) <+Banquo> Barabbas`: if the romans saw or heard large rumors of multiple people rising from the grave, i think they would've said something
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(08-07-14 11:50:22) <+ReverendBEM> amigojapan Right, and if we look at the actions of Columbus, he was no Christian.
(08-07-14 11:50:54) <@Barabbas`> Mabus Sure it is, especially since they didn't report to the Romans. They went home to their people. Do you think their own people would give them up to the Romans, an occupying force. Especially when they believed the Messiah had come to defeat the Romans?
(08-07-14 11:50:59) <+amigojapan> thywillbedone: it is not silly, when a sotry is so far out and outlandish as the flood of noah, it was not real
(08-07-14 11:51:17) <+Mabus> barabbas, you are not reasoning here
(08-07-14 11:51:34) <+Mabus> people don't just calmly ho hum people clawing their way out of tombs
(08-07-14 11:51:39) <+Mabus> thats just not a reasonable proposition
(08-07-14 11:51:41) <+amigojapan> ReverendBEM: I dont know exactly what colombus did himself
(08-07-14 11:51:54) <+ReverendBEM> Barabbas` I cannot see someone rising from the dead and wanting to go see the occupying authorities, I would imagine they would go home.
(08-07-14 11:52:06) <+fred__w> mabus  the bible is a book full of miracles  there is no reason this cannot be one of them
(08-07-14 11:52:11) <@Barabbas`> Banquo: Who would tell the Romans, the military occupiers of Israel? That would be like a Jew telling the Nazis where his family is hiding.
(08-07-14 11:52:36) <+Mabus> fred, agreed... the issue is that no one else mentioned this supposed very public and very empirical event which everyone would notice
(08-07-14 11:52:43) <+Mabus> that lack of mention suggests it did not happen
(08-07-14 11:52:44) <@Barabbas`> ReverendBEM: Exactly, thats why they were recognized in the city. They were only recognized by those who knew them.
(08-07-14 11:52:58) <+Mabus> barabbas... the terrified jews :P
(08-07-14 11:53:10) <+ReverendBEM> Barabbas` And one Jew looked pretty much like any other Jew.
(08-07-14 11:53:23) <+fred__w> irrelevent  the gospel writers are not compelled to be carbon copies of each other  thats a straw man  as ive noted
(08-07-14 11:53:31) <+Mabus> fred, strawman
(08-07-14 11:53:41) <+Mabus> no one claimed they have to be carbon copies
(08-07-14 11:53:48) <+Mabus> you are completely missing the point
(08-07-14 11:53:56) <@Barabbas`> Mabus: why would the Jews be terrified, they were looking forward to the Messiah and the resurrection. The fact that once dead saints were now back among them would give them strength, not fear.
(08-07-14 11:54:00) <+fred__w> it is in the mind of the one making the claim  that does not mean it was in the mind of the authors
(08-07-14 11:54:12) <+Mabus> why would the jews be terrified to see corpses clawing their way out of graves?
(08-07-14 11:54:13) <+ReverendBEM> Remember, no tv, no mass communication, no cell phones, news travelled by foot
(08-07-14 11:54:18) <+Mabus> thats so laughable it does not deserve a reply
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(08-07-14 11:54:33) <+amigojapan> thywillbedone: no
(08-07-14 11:54:33) * blue0ne sets mode: +v brad61
(08-07-14 11:54:41) <+Banquo> So the resurrected saints just went home to their families and lived their lives accordingly....eventually they have to leave the house...eventually someone's going to recognize them, and eventually a roman's going to hear about it
(08-07-14 11:54:43) <@Barabbas`> ReverendBEM: That is true, how would the Romans even know that the person in front of them had once been dead? To the Romans they were just like the next guy in line.
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(08-07-14 11:55:18) <+fred__w> mabus  do youu mean that you are the first to laugh at biblical content  really  seriously  and that laughing is suppose to carry some kind of weight  i dont think so
(08-07-14 11:55:25) <+Mabus> its hillarious the lengths people will go to, to support a ridiculous claim
(08-07-14 11:55:30) <+amigojapan> Mabus: it happened like in thriller :)
(08-07-14 11:55:35) <+ReverendBEM> I can see one ROman talking to another, did you hear a bunch of Jews came out of their graves alive? Next Roman, well, expect anything from those superstitious atheists.
(08-07-14 11:55:52) <+Mabus> fred, i have not laughed at anything in the bible.. i have calmly and respectfully pointed out logical inconsistancies
(08-07-14 11:56:04) <+ReverendBEM> Yes, Romans called people of other religions atheists.
(08-07-14 11:56:08) <@Barabbas`> Banquo: Yeah, just like the Jews that survived the war in, I believe Latvia, living out in the open, amongst the occupying Nazis, as the relatives of the people there. Heck, this was kept secret long after the war. In fact I believe it was not brought to light until the 90's
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(08-07-14 11:56:33) <+fred__w> miracles do defy logic  yet the bible is filled with them  and they have a purpose  this is just one other one
(08-07-14 11:57:01) <+ReverendBEM> Barabbas` Corrie Ten Boom and Schindler did the same thing
(08-07-14 11:57:11) <+Mabus> fred, we are not discussing the miracle....
(08-07-14 11:57:19) <+fred__w> \then what
(08-07-14 11:57:22) <+Mabus> we are discussing the lack of written corroboration of an event
(08-07-14 11:57:37) <+fred__w> which ive already responded is unnecessary
(08-07-14 11:57:45) <+amigojapan> fred__w: let Jesus show a square circle on my screen now, and I will become a believer
(08-07-14 11:57:50) <+Mabus> you have responded, absurdly... yes
(08-07-14 11:57:58) <+fred__w> irrelevent once again
(08-07-14 11:58:21) <+Mabus> thywill, glad you find it interesting :)
(08-07-14 11:58:28) <@Barabbas`> Mabus: What is rediculous about it. You went to great lengths to try and say the Romans would have known and wrote home about it... However that fails in light of just who the Romans were in relation to the Jews. First off, the Romans would have just seen another Jew in front of them. Only those who knew the dead saints would recognize them. Then, what reason would they have for warning
(08-07-14 11:58:28) <@Barabbas`> the Romans that the Messiah, the guy who would destroy them, was around.
(08-07-14 11:58:42) <+Mabus> barabbas, i didn't go to any great length, i mentioned a simple fact
(08-07-14 11:59:03) <+fred__w> what you see as absurd is that different people dont have to include in their work what you want  you are not the purveyor of acceptible content in any work  if you think so  take another look at yourself
(08-07-14 11:59:08) <+Mabus> barabbas, the fact is even other christians didn't mention it
(08-07-14 11:59:17) <+Mabus> not a single other christian wrote about this alledged event
(08-07-14 11:59:21) <+Mabus> this suggests they disbelieved it
(08-07-14 11:59:25) <@Barabbas`> Mabus: No, you speculated that the Romans would have acted like people today. Problem is, there was no way for the Romans to know the person before them had once been dead, unless a relative who knew told them.
(08-07-14 11:59:32) <+fred__w> it suggests zippo
(08-07-14 11:59:38) <+amigojapan> thywillbedone: the bible claims are already refuted, now it is just fun watching you guys deffend it
(08-07-14 12:00:18) <+fred__w> only john mentioned cana  i suppose i can find dozens of such corroborating miracles
(08-07-14 12:00:33) <+ReverendBEM> thywillbedone I refuse to discuss theology with an atheist.
(08-07-14 12:01:06) <+fred__w> ..well maybe dozens is a stretch  but the point is made
(08-07-14 12:01:06) <@jks> ReverendBEM: then wipe the dust off your feet
(08-07-14 12:01:19) <+ReverendBEM> jks Ignore does that quite well.
(08-07-14 12:02:06) <@jks> yes it does
(08-07-14 12:02:43) <@Barabbas`> Mabus: So what. During WWII the Muslims hid Jews in Albainia in plain sight. They ddin't write about it, and neither did the Jews until many years after the war.
(08-07-14 12:02:46) <+Banquo> jks: noticed you never gave good evidence for your claim above
(08-07-14 12:02:49) <+fred__w> all men are to receive the good news in any form  that some might be saved
(08-07-14 12:03:12) <+Mabus> barabbas, yeah cuz thats exactly the same :)
(08-07-14 12:03:34) <@Barabbas`> Mabus: Just another example of how people are hidden from Occupying forces in plain sight.
(08-07-14 12:03:36) <@jks> kjv 1ti 2:5
(08-07-14 12:03:36) <+CancelBot> kjv 1ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
(08-07-14 12:03:58) <@jks> already gave it but i thought i would help you out
(08-07-14 12:04:08) <@Barabbas`> Mabus; This makes more sense than Romans knowing the graves were opened and writing home about it.
(08-07-14 12:04:09) * +ManInBoxers (~ManInboxe@138.128.161.188) Quit (Quit: ManInBoxers)
(08-07-14 12:04:30) <+Banquo> jks: we've already established that just because something is written does not make it true
(08-07-14 12:04:51) <@jks> ok Banquo have a nice day
(08-07-14 12:05:03) * Bach sets mode: +l 62
(08-07-14 12:05:16) <@Barabbas`> Banquo: Something written does remain true until proven otherwise. Do you have any evidence that proves the graves didn't give up their dead when Jesus was crucified?
(08-07-14 12:05:17) <+ReverendBEM> Okay, eye drop time
(08-07-14 12:05:33) <@jks> ReverendBEM: did you know the moon is round?
(08-07-14 12:05:42) <+Godric> lol what?
(08-07-14 12:06:15) <+Banquo> Barabbas`: That's some pretty bad logic.
(08-07-14 12:06:20) <+fred__w> the bible is a mirror for man to see more clearly his own sin  it was delivered by god for this purpose
(08-07-14 12:06:23) <+ReverendBEM> jks I wont be seeing for awhile, I have six diff eye drops I have to use
(08-07-14 12:06:38) <+fred__w> ..among many
(08-07-14 12:06:38) <+Mabus> barabbas is a ballerina
(08-07-14 12:06:40) <@Barabbas`> Banquo; I guess that is a no, you don't have any evidence to refute what was given as the truth.
(08-07-14 12:06:44) <+Mabus> this is true, until he proves otherwise
(08-07-14 12:06:45) <+Mabus> :P
(08-07-14 12:07:20) <+Mabus> barabbas, can you prove you are not a world class ballerina? :)
(08-07-14 12:07:54) <+fred__w> the bible is also a gift of god  and thus above reproach  it does not need mans approval or disapproval  man answers to it  not the other way around
(08-07-14 12:08:03) * Disconnected
Session Close: Thu Aug 07 12:08:04 2014

Session Start: Thu Aug 07 12:08:04 2014
Session Ident: #ChristianDebate
(08-07-14 12:12:33) * Attempting to rejoin channel #ChristianDebate
(08-07-14 12:12:59) * Rejoined channel #ChristianDebate
(08-07-14 12:12:59) * Topic is 'Christians, if you intend to add "God Bless" to the end of your sentences, make sure that it's not a euphemism for something else.'
(08-07-14 12:12:59) * Set by Fundamenta|ist!~Yadda@cpe-76-88-102-179.san.res.rr.com on Mon Jul 28 21:09:35
(08-07-14 12:13:01) * blue0ne sets mode: +v UnderCoverNerd
(08-07-14 12:13:12) <+Mabus> barabbas... i don't care what you believe... you can't disprove you are a ballerina
(08-07-14 12:13:21) <+Mabus> and as you said, anything written must be assumed to be true until disproven
(08-07-14 12:13:31) <@jks> Mabus: that isnt even close to debate 101. chill
(08-07-14 12:13:31) <+Mabus> god bless :P
(08-07-14 12:13:34) <+Godric> saying you know... and actualy knowing are 2 different things
(08-07-14 12:13:51) <+Banquo> jks: your right, Barabbas` flawed logic shows he did not attend debate 101
(08-07-14 12:14:09) * jks sets mode: -v Banquo
(08-07-14 12:14:37) <+fred__w> anything that has stood the test of thousands of years  and preserved well at that  is worth sitting up and taking notice  it would be an act of wisdom to do so
(08-07-14 12:14:41) <+Godric> *sigh*
(08-07-14 12:15:05) <+Mabus> fred, i am all for taking notice of things... i am also for being skeptical of absurd claims
(08-07-14 12:15:52) * +Saturn` (~zan@c-65-96-46-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: The Church of the Eternal Genius of Man: The Holy Thelemic Church)
(08-07-14 12:16:14) <+fred__w> yes  thts why you are here  to try to make claims of absurdity  but the bible is impervious to such claims  it will break the claims of men  in resurrecting some from the dead
(08-07-14 12:16:39) <+Mabus> fred... we have a body of knowledge.... simply writting something, that contradicts our body of knowledge... should not automatically be assumed to be true until disproven... we must remain skeptical of claims that contradict everything we know
(08-07-14 12:17:46) <+fred__w> yes  and you are not the first to make such claims  nor will you be the last  yet the bible is tenacious  outlasting all the critics and scoffers  which makes it the work of antiquity that it is
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(08-07-14 12:18:16) <+Mabus> fred... actually many biblical claims have been shown to be false over the passage of time
(08-07-14 12:18:32) <+fred__w> not a one  though many have tried
(08-07-14 12:18:40) <+Mabus> you are simply incorrect
(08-07-14 12:18:52) <+fred__w> your presupp  ok by me
(08-07-14 12:19:00) <+fred__w> not compelling
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(08-07-14 12:19:36) <+fred__w> my presupps are backed by the bible  the scoffer has nothing behind him  theres a reason for that
(08-07-14 12:19:56) <+Mabus> again, no one is scoffing, i am talking calmly and respectfully
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(08-07-14 12:20:55) <+fred__w> the unbeliever is a scoffer  an external critic is easy to spot  as i noted the bible is to teach us  not the other way around  those that try  are  scoffers  by definition
(08-07-14 12:20:57) * Bach sets mode: +l 58
(08-07-14 12:21:06) <+Mabus> one can be a critic without scoffing
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(08-07-14 12:21:27) * blue0ne sets mode: +v Fruisana
(08-07-14 12:21:38) <+{Saint_Philomena}> Wellcome back Fruisana :)
(08-07-14 12:21:46) <+Godric> so. just not believing in a holy book, makes you a scoffer of said holy book?
(08-07-14 12:22:01) <+fred__w> the bible is beyond reproach  those that believe that are showing fruit unto righteousness  the bible tells us we will know a tree by its fruot
(08-07-14 12:22:15) <+Mabus> i reproach the bible
(08-07-14 12:22:21) <+Mabus> thus it is not beyond reproach
(08-07-14 12:22:21) * Barabbas` is now known as Barabbas`bbl
(08-07-14 12:22:28) <+Godric> heh
(08-07-14 12:22:29) <+Mabus> since i am reproaching it
(08-07-14 12:22:31) <+Mabus> :P
(08-07-14 12:22:48) * +Godric draws a line on the ground infront of mabus
(08-07-14 12:22:52) <+Godric> you cannot cross this line!
(08-07-14 12:23:24) <+fred__w> man is used to thinking highly of himself  yet the bible reports that all men err and are untrustworthy  that the bible alone is trustworthy  where the wise take their rest
(08-07-14 12:23:26) <@jks> Godric? are you using a 10 ft pole??
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(08-07-14 12:24:12) <+Godric> nope just a peice of chaulk
(08-07-14 12:24:25) <@jks> sidewalk chalk?
(08-07-14 12:24:29) <+Godric> sure
(08-07-14 12:24:32) <+fred__w> is that english chalk
(08-07-14 12:24:36) <+ReverendBEM> What color?
(08-07-14 12:24:45) <+Godric> green
(08-07-14 12:24:50) <+ReverendBEM> Good choice
(08-07-14 12:24:56) <+fred__w> my favorite color
(08-07-14 12:25:12) <+ReverendBEM> I can see again!
(08-07-14 12:25:43) <@jks> ReverendBEM? do you have needles put in your eyes?
(08-07-14 12:26:04) <+ReverendBEM> jks no, eye drops
(08-07-14 12:26:35) <+fred__w> its a really cool operation  i was awake while it was performed on my eyes
(08-07-14 12:26:35) <@jks> ReverendBEM my wifes cousin does. some sort of eye disease
(08-07-14 12:27:04) <@jks> fred__w? lasix?
(08-07-14 12:27:17) <+fred__w> mine was cataracts  a fast degradation in my case
(08-07-14 12:27:21) <+ReverendBEM> my lenses were replaced
(08-07-14 12:27:27) <+fred__w> no a lens transplant
(08-07-14 12:27:37) <+ReverendBEM> MY
(08-07-14 12:27:45) <+fred__w> well implant  i stand corrected
(08-07-14 12:28:12) <@jks> ReverendBEM: and you get to watch themas they do it on a monitor
(08-07-14 12:28:13) <+Godric> thywillbedone can you prove that?
(08-07-14 12:28:46) <+fred__w> they are synthetic  mine are far  i think revs are progressives
(08-07-14 12:28:49) <+ReverendBEM> jks I was too far gone to watch anythinh other than the bright light
(08-07-14 12:29:16) <@jks> the pharisees, the people who should have known God best didn't even know Who was standing right in front of them
(08-07-14 12:29:21) <+Godric> thats not proving it
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(08-07-14 12:30:20) fred__w is ~fred__w4@190.117.246.57 * realname
(08-07-14 12:30:20) fred__w on +#ChristianDebate
(08-07-14 12:30:20) fred__w using rapport.ix.us.dal.net Waking the dead in Palo Alto all night long
(08-07-14 12:30:20) fred__w has identified for this nick
(08-07-14 12:30:20) fred__w has been idle 1min 33secs, signed on Thu Aug 07 08:45:37
(08-07-14 12:30:20) fred__w End of /WHOIS list.
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(08-07-14 12:30:27) <@jks> ReverendBEM: every time i have seen it., a local was given
(08-07-14 12:31:23) <+Godric> thywillbedone great prove it
(08-07-14 12:31:56) <+ReverendBEM> Useless to argue with any atheist
(08-07-14 12:31:57) <@jks> ReverendBEM: when they take the cataracts out they use a vacuum
(08-07-14 12:32:09) <+ReverendBEM> jks yes
(08-07-14 12:32:14) <+{Saint_Philomena}> Godric easy the quaran dont say the same things as the bible...
(08-07-14 12:32:16) <@jks> ReverendBEM: more than useless
(08-07-14 12:32:29) * +fred__w :  muslim thesis. the basic issue with muslim theology is contradictions
(08-07-14 12:32:40) <+{Saint_Philomena}> Godric everythings God do in all this years the quaran it says the oposite
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(08-07-14 12:33:11) * +fred__w : muslim contradiction 1.  that gods truth cannot be corrupted  yet they believe the torah and ingel are of god and corrupted
(08-07-14 12:33:24) <+UnderCoverNerd> says the dude who believes in vegetarian t-rex
(08-07-14 12:33:37) * +fred__w : muslim contradiction 2.  they believe they must both honor and kill the jew / people of the book / christians  prop
(08-07-14 12:33:47) <@jks> ReverendBEM: as Jesus said. Like whitewashed tombs full of dead men's bones
(08-07-14 12:33:57) * +fred__w : muslim contradiction 3. they disagree with the meaning and membership of trinity of the bible
(08-07-14 12:34:17) <+{Saint_Philomena}> the quran comes 600 after the bible and JEsus and start to say diferent things
(08-07-14 12:34:32) <+{Saint_Philomena}> about jesus and other stuff
(08-07-14 12:34:56) <+fred__w> hmm  i think i have to tweak that last one a little
(08-07-14 12:35:40) <+Godric> gabriel the arch angel appeared to muhammad
(08-07-14 12:35:56) <+Godric> how can you prove this didnt happen?
(08-07-14 12:36:39) <+{Saint_Philomena}> Godric Gabriel the arch apears to Our Lady Mother of Jesus the quran dont say the same thing as the bible
(08-07-14 12:36:56) * +exb (~exb@mobile-166-147-081-254.mycingular.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
(08-07-14 12:37:00) <+ReverendBEM> Interesting, notice that the first thing many atheists say in the channel is an insult to believers?
(08-07-14 12:37:02) * jks sets mode: +v Banquo
(08-07-14 12:37:26) <@jks> ReverendBEM: bbl
(08-07-14 12:37:43) <+ReverendBEM> Yeah, like I am really in the mood to debate someone who just called me delusional.
(08-07-14 12:38:15) <+UnderCoverNerd> you debate?
(08-07-14 12:38:18) * +deadhead (Dhd@65-128-131-248.mpls.qwest.net) Quit (Read error: Input/output error)
(08-07-14 12:38:31) <+{Saint_Philomena}> Stay good stay with Saint Angels
(08-07-14 12:38:40) <+{Saint_Philomena}> Saint Philomena and Saints. :)
(08-07-14 12:38:56) <+Godric> ok. so no one can prove it didnt happen
(08-07-14 12:39:29) <+{Saint_Philomena}> Godric it didnt happend because the qaran it says diferents things from what God do it all this years beford islam comes
(08-07-14 12:39:34) <+{Saint_Philomena}> Well stay good
(08-07-14 12:39:36) <+Godric> so what
(08-07-14 12:39:44) * +{Saint_Philomena} (~Saint_Phi@a89-154-209-70.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Quit: )
(08-07-14 12:40:53) <+UnderCoverNerd> as we know from bara, anything written is true until proven otherwise
(08-07-14 12:40:58) * +amigojapan (~amigojapa@p2105-ipbf2309souka.saitama.ocn.ne.jp) Quit (Quit: amigojapan)
(08-07-14 12:41:06) <+Godric> correct
(08-07-14 12:41:11) <+UnderCoverNerd> harry potter is currently still true
(08-07-14 12:41:16) <+UnderCoverNerd> and lotr
(08-07-14 12:41:25) <+fred__w> yes  but their book points them there  i dont really hold that against them
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(08-07-14 12:42:02) <+fred__w> they are responsible for it  yes  i just think it flows from their source
(08-07-14 12:44:24) <+Godric> thywillbedone apparently that is irrelevant according to believers
(08-07-14 12:44:41) <+Godric> it is written down. there for true untill proven otherwise
(08-07-14 12:45:07) * +Banquo (~Mibbit@cpe-96-29-156-217.swo.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
(08-07-14 12:45:55) * Bach sets mode: +l 58
(08-07-14 12:46:48) <+Godric> i said nothing of the sort
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(08-07-14 12:48:30) <+Godric> its written gabrel spoke to muhammad
(08-07-14 12:49:27) <+Godric> you question has not relevence
(08-07-14 12:49:48) <+Godric> by muhammed
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(08-07-14 12:51:25) * blue0ne sets mode: +v Haunch
(08-07-14 12:51:28) <+Godric> that dosnt matter
(08-07-14 12:51:31) <+Haunch> hello eveybody :)
(08-07-14 12:51:58) <+Godric> hello
(08-07-14 12:52:08) <+Haunch> hi Godric
(08-07-14 12:52:47) <+Haunch> how are you thywillbedone?
(08-07-14 12:53:35) * +MoIIy (~molly@help.im.trapped.on-irc.org) has left #christiandebate
(08-07-14 12:55:11) <+Godric> people say they talk to jesus all the time
(08-07-14 12:55:17) <+Godric> apply the same logic there
(08-07-14 12:55:30) <+Haunch> thywillbedone..He did that to Elijah..didn't He :)
(08-07-14 12:57:04) * MoIIy (~molly@help.im.trapped.on-irc.org) has joined #christiandebate
(08-07-14 12:57:06) * blue0ne sets mode: +v MoIIy
(08-07-14 12:57:13) <+Haunch> wb MoIIy
(08-07-14 12:58:50) <+Haunch> thywillbedone..Do you not think he is in heaven now...I often wondered about that..
(08-07-14 12:59:44) <+Haunch> thywillbedone..oops my goof..apologies to you..
(08-07-14 12:59:54) <+Thacker-> Enoch either, or at least both were not recorded to have "died".
(08-07-14 13:00:19) <+Haunch> Thacker- good point...thank you..
(08-07-14 13:00:32) <+Thacker-> its simply not said.
(08-07-14 13:00:41) <+Thacker-> "Enoch walked with God and was not"
(08-07-14 13:01:12) <+Thacker-> Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind...
(08-07-14 13:01:35) <+Thacker-> heh
(08-07-14 13:02:24) <+Thacker-> I mean, its never stated that Daniel ever "sinned"... but clearly he did.
(08-07-14 13:02:41) <+Haunch> thywillbedone  Sorry but who is (was) Dorothy
(08-07-14 13:02:50) <+Thacker-> Haunch, wizard of oz
(08-07-14 13:03:05) <+Haunch> Thacker- Ahhh..Ok thanks
(08-07-14 13:03:25) <+Thacker-> alagorical, and perhaps has more in common with the Elijah story than some would care to consider. :)
(08-07-14 13:03:55) * Bach sets mode: -b *!*pela@*cryptsofeternity.com
(08-07-14 13:03:56) * QRT sets mode: +b *!*pela@*cryptsofeternity.com
(08-07-14 13:04:21) <+Thacker-> oh geeze, the cryptsofeternity strikes again.
(08-07-14 13:05:29) * +Thacker- (~32406lkja@172-5-76-16.lightspeed.okcbok.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: )
(08-07-14 13:07:17) <+ReverendBEM> I am glad Muslim writers include PBUH in their material, that way I know to stop reading it, more Muslim trash
(08-07-14 13:08:47) * +Toph (~peace@h69-31-230-220.dynamic.platinum.ca) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
(08-07-14 13:10:54) <+Mabus> its sickening how full of hate and venom rev is
(08-07-14 13:11:55) <+Godric> not a very nice comment to make, no.
(08-07-14 13:14:03) <+Haunch> bbl..bye 4 now..Take care everybody....
(08-07-14 13:14:07) * +Haunch (~f_rusko@d72-39-176-42.home1.cgocable.net) Quit (Quit: )
(08-07-14 13:14:53) * Bach sets mode: +l 55
(08-07-14 13:16:13) <+Mabus> thywill... its interesting you didn'tm have a problem with what he said
(08-07-14 13:18:50) * ogrom (~ogrom@gprs-inet-183-57.elisa.ee) has joined #christiandebate
(08-07-14 13:18:50) <+ReverendBEM> thywillbedone I have Mabus on ignore. I do not talk to Mabus
(08-07-14 13:18:52) * blue0ne sets mode: +v ogrom
(08-07-14 13:18:55) * Bach sets mode: -b *!*@*91.213.8.235
(08-07-14 13:18:56) * QRT sets mode: -b *!*@*91.213.8.235
(08-07-14 13:19:05) <+ReverendBEM> thywillbedone I see nothing he writes
(08-07-14 13:20:16) <+ReverendBEM> thywillbedone I do not debate nor discuss theology with atheists.
(08-07-14 13:20:23) <+ReverendBEM> Waste of time.