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  1. [14:14:19] +memesketch: diancie + volc would be very interesting
  2. [14:14:29] +Katy: needs alot of support
  3. [14:14:33] +Katy: but doable
  4. [14:14:35] +Katy: ez
  5. [14:14:43] %Watermess: idk seems like a nice start to me
  6. [14:14:48] +memesketch: i've also used mega latios + volc, prob should've suggested that
  7. [14:14:52] +slainey: and remember if you have any advice or things you want to tell us for the teambuilding pm me or any of the other auth :3
  8. [14:14:58] +slainey: i like the diancie volc 1
  9. [14:15:02] @Waves: same
  10. [14:15:04] %Ho3nConfirm3d: start with a water resist next that's for sure lol
  11. [14:15:11] @Waves: and our winner is mega diancie + volc
  12. [14:15:13] +t04ster: diancie volc i like as well
  13. [14:15:15] @Waves: let's get crackin
  14. [14:15:16] +MajesticM: Well
  15. [14:15:17] @Ruft: Diancie w Volc makes sense cause it dissuades stealth rock from going up
  16. [14:15:19] +memesketch: yeah true we need a water res to start
  17. [14:15:20] +t04ster: 2 votes ahead of kokolucha
  18. [14:15:26] +MajesticM: Simple idea behind the core is
  19. [14:15:30] %Ho3nConfirm3d: Should we determine sets first
  20. [14:15:37] +memesketch: so it should be protect mega diancie right
  21. [14:15:40] +memesketch: to safely bounce
  22. [14:15:41] +MajesticM: Diancie is weak to steel and volc is fire
  23. [14:15:42] %Ho3nConfirm3d: i wouldnt mind Protect on Diance here if we really like volc
  24. [14:15:45] %Watermess: ye ruft its a common oras core, to pair a rock weak fire with diancie
  25. [14:15:49] %Ho3nConfirm3d: oh good we're on the same page with tect
  26. [14:15:54] @Ruft: Yup
  27. [14:15:54] +memesketch: yeah we need tect
  28. [14:15:56] +Katy: both dislike water types alot
  29. [14:15:59] +MajesticM: Volc is weak to rocks and m diancie has magic bounce
  30. [14:16:08] +memesketch: tect on diancie is also really good in general vs stuff like the scarf lando on every other team in 7
  31. [14:16:23] +MajesticM: For all the guys who didn't understand the point of the core
  32. [14:16:37] +t04ster: i think we can just go bugnium + offensive rocks
  33. [14:16:45] +t04ster: water resist + scarf lando counterplay
  34. [14:16:46] +slainey: why not psychium
  35. [14:16:46] %Watermess: needs to consider how to break pex and tran first and foremost imo, since those are the main issues to a volc sweep in sm
  36. [14:16:48] +t04ster: and the like
  37. [14:16:52] %Ho3nConfirm3d: What coverage do we sack for Protect? Is Diamond Storm the most expendable, if we have EP / moonblast / rocks? or a different rocker
  38. [14:17:03] +t04ster: psychium is salvageable
  39. [14:17:07] +Katy: i would say smth like tapu fini can work
  40. [14:17:15] +Katy: as it helps vs pex toxic on volc
  41. [14:17:17] +memesketch: diancie can go no rocks or no dstorm but it needs ep protect and moonblast
  42. [14:17:21] @Ruft: If it's rocks then diamond storm ye
  43. [14:17:21] +slainey: i think u kinda need diamond storm ngl, u can do without ep since storm hits hard on tran anyways
  44. [14:17:36] @Ruft: Well you need EP for other steels
  45. [14:17:37] +memesketch: fini and volc go great together
  46. [14:17:39] %Ho3nConfirm3d: i'd keep storm and check out another rocker maybe
  47. [14:17:41] +memesketch: maybe we can start there
  48. [14:17:43] %Watermess: i like diamond storm, u wanna ohko zap and torn
  49. [14:17:44] +Katy: also both can get revengekilled by spex ash grens water shuriken
  50. [14:17:49] +slainey: agreed Watermess
  51. [14:17:51] %Watermess: to rock reliably
  52. [14:17:56] +slainey: Ruft i mean what other steels tho
  53. [14:17:56] @quziel: I almost wanna say that silly subendeavor rocks diancie
  54. [14:18:04] %Ho3nConfirm3d: lmao, the classic
  55. [14:18:04] @quziel: but that's not really worth doing post m-eye honestly
  56. [14:18:04] +memesketch: but if we go fini we need a secondary check to agren
  57. [14:18:06] +Katy: so a sturdy water resist would be great to have
  58. [14:18:06] @Ruft: Excadrill, Magnezone
  59. [14:18:11] @Ruft: Mawile
  60. [14:18:14] +slainey: hm
  61. [14:18:14] %Ho3nConfirm3d: if we went SubEndevor, we could go full HO
  62. [14:18:40] @Ruft: That works too
  63. [14:18:42] +MajesticM: We'll need more solid mmeta checks if we're gonna run fini/m diancie/volc
  64. [14:18:48] +memesketch: mmeta?
  65. [14:18:50] +memesketch: not in 7
  66. [14:18:50] +slainey: mmeta isnt in 7
  67. [14:18:51] +MajesticM: Wait
  68. [14:18:51] @Ruft: Or you go with another rocker to go with Dia
  69. [14:18:52] +MajesticM: Lmao
  70. [14:18:53] +Katy: megagross is banned
  71. [14:18:54] @Ruft: so it can run 3a tect
  72. [14:18:56] +Katy: from gen7 ou
  73. [14:18:57] +MajesticM: Ignore me
  74. [14:18:57] %Watermess: fini is a big pace mismatch with diancie
  75. [14:19:05] +memesketch: ruft i think that's a good idea
  76. [14:19:15] %Watermess: pick an offense poke, something the beats pex and tran with ease
  77. [14:19:19] +memesketch: maybe gliscor to deal with scarf lando and general eq problems so far
  78. [14:19:20] %Watermess: and go from there
  79. [14:19:30] +memesketch: oh glisc beats pex and tran too
  80. [14:19:33] %Watermess: gliscor is also a pace mismatch, pick offense pokes
  81. [14:19:38] %Watermess: not balance pokes
  82. [14:19:39] +Katy: gliscor
  83. [14:19:43] +memesketch: oh we doing HO?
  84. [14:19:55] +Katy: rotom wash
  85. [14:19:59] +Katy: with electrium
  86. [14:20:00] +memesketch: maybe chomper then
  87. [14:20:06] %Ho3nConfirm3d: maybe vote for protect diance BO, or SubEndevor HO
  88. [14:20:18] +memesketch: or elecz rotom works
  89. [14:20:26] +MajesticM: Garchomp sounds like a good idea to me
  90. [14:20:28] %Watermess: doesnt have to be HO, but weak slower mons will give openings to defoggers and hazard setters
  91. [14:20:33] @Waves: do we want a poll for ho/bo?
  92. [14:20:37] +t04ster: protect diancie bo im down for
  93. [14:20:37] %Watermess: chomp works
  94. [14:20:50] +MajesticM: Plus if we wanted we wouldn't have to run rocks on diamcie
  95. [14:20:58] +MajesticM: Potentially
  96. [14:21:02] %Watermess: nah rocks on diance
  97. [14:21:07] +memesketch: protect 3 atks diancie with rocks gliscor or chomp could be good
  98. [14:21:14] %Watermess: one of the hardest to block rockers in sm
  99. [14:21:29] @Ruft: Could also add spikes
  100. [14:21:29] #AM: rocks diancie for sableye builds imo
  101. [14:21:31] @Ruft: like Ferro
  102. [14:21:32] +slainey: i say gliscor tbh cus that would be really nice for tran exca if we dont run ep
  103. [14:21:45] %Watermess: spikes is nice for tran
  104. [14:21:48] %Watermess: in general
  105. [14:21:48] @Ruft: ye
  106. [14:22:11] +memesketch: glisc or we could go offensive rocks lando of some sort if drill is a worry
  107. [14:22:17] +memesketch: or any rocks lando if BO
  108. [14:22:36] +MajesticM: Are we gone run Defog just in case or forgo it altogether?
  109. [14:22:40] %Watermess: offensive rocks lando could be decent
  110. [14:22:46] @Ruft: Def run defog
  111. [14:22:49] +memesketch: if we're using volc we probably need defog
  112. [14:22:49] %Watermess: but we already have diance
  113. [14:22:54] +memesketch: diancie can't stop every rocker
  114. [14:22:55] @Ruft: Magic bounce Dia isn't enough for Volc
  115. [14:22:58] +Katy: lando gives us a ground and elec immune
  116. [14:23:02] @Ruft: It doesn't come in on stuff like Lando and chomp
  117. [14:23:05] %Watermess: agreed ruft
  118. [14:23:05] +Katy: ground immune especially
  119. [14:23:07] @Ruft: at least safely
  120. [14:23:08] +memesketch: think mold breaker drill and rocks lando
  121. [14:23:12] +Katy: which dia and volc like
  122. [14:23:35] +MajesticM: What do we have so far? Did we decide chomp or glisc?
  123. [14:23:44] +Katy: chomp i think
  124. [14:23:52] +t04ster: i think we're going chomp yea
  125. [14:23:54] +t04ster: im tryna catch up
  126. [14:23:57] +memesketch: lando or chomp, leaning towards chomp
  127. [14:24:04] %Watermess: i like serp as well as an option
  128. [14:24:05] %Ho3nConfirm3d: id go chomper here
  129. [14:24:12] +memesketch: serp as a defogger?
  130. [14:24:15] +MajesticM: So if chomp + ferro we need a ground resist
  131. [14:24:16] +memesketch: or just to attack
  132. [14:24:27] +slainey: fogger serp is so whack
  133. [14:24:30] +memesketch: scarf serp with defog could work ig
  134. [14:24:36] +MajesticM: I don't like serp
  135. [14:24:41] +slainey: yeah
  136. [14:24:42] +t04ster: eh
  137. [14:24:46] %Watermess: tornadus is a decent option as well
  138. [14:24:55] %Watermess: possibly taunt
  139. [14:24:55] +Katy: we need a thing vs spex lele psychic
  140. [14:24:55] +slainey: like scarf serp is so abusable too much resist leaf storm
  141. [14:24:57] +memesketch: torn leaves us very weak to ttar
  142. [14:25:00] +memesketch: banded especially
  143. [14:25:02] +Katy: ferrothorn can only come in so many times
  144. [14:25:07] +slainey: and u cant just glare what comes in on storm or even hp fire
  145. [14:25:10] +Katy: spex lele screws us so far
  146. [14:25:26] +memesketch: diancie can scout but we need a good resist
  147. [14:25:41] +slainey: https://pokepast.es/3970d716e4087219 prikash said to use this lando on the team
  148. [14:25:46] +slainey: as the rocker
  149. [14:25:49] +slainey: thoughts
  150. [14:25:52] +memesketch: that's a good lando
  151. [14:25:54] +t04ster: yea
  152. [14:25:56] @Ruft: Don't we want Z-bug on Volc
  153. [14:26:00] +memesketch: true true
  154. [14:26:07] %Watermess: z on volc makes sense
  155. [14:26:08] %Watermess: to me
  156. [14:26:15] +MajesticM: Yeah i thought rocks diancie z volc?
  157. [14:26:28] +memesketch: lol couldn't go lum like gen 6 could we?
  158. [14:26:44] +memesketch: bug z is better for sure
  159. [14:26:53] #AM: slainey think z rock would be better to break skarm builds
  160. [14:26:53] %Watermess: https://pokepast.es/97636566a38a7bab
  161. [14:26:58] %Watermess: what about this 6
  162. [14:27:07] #AM: and celesteela
  163. [14:27:10] +slainey: Ruft tbh we can run another item on volc i think it could still work
  164. [14:27:11] +memesketch: idk about serp
  165. [14:27:15] #AM: two things diancie hates
  166. [14:27:17] +t04ster: i think its great but
  167. [14:27:17] @Ruft: I suppose
  168. [14:27:19] +t04ster: maybe a bulkier grass
  169. [14:27:24] +memesketch: also no speed control and very little to stop agren
  170. [14:27:25] +t04ster: our rain mu is trash rn tbh
  171. [14:27:26] %Watermess: last can be anything that checks tran rly
  172. [14:27:39] %Watermess: well you'd go fat serp here
  173. [14:27:43] +slainey: i do agree with rockium tho instead of flynium for skarm and scizor
  174. [14:27:43] %Watermess: imo
  175. [14:27:46] +slainey: mainly zor
  176. [14:28:00] +memesketch: zor is destroyed by skystrike tho
  177. [14:28:03] +memesketch: it doesn't resist
  178. [14:28:16] +MajesticM: Honestly i think i built like balanced o when i made this ngl cuz the core needs a lot of support
  179. [14:29:03] +slainey: oh yeah zor is neutral ye
  180. [14:29:08] +slainey: still hits skarm tho
  181. [14:29:30] +memesketch: yeah skarm can ww on fly z
  182. [14:29:44] +memesketch: and cele can leech
  183. [14:29:58] +memesketch: rockium would be better but we still gotta consider volc as a z user
  184. [14:30:05] +slainey: !code
  185. Volcarona @ Buginium Z
  186. Ability: Flame Body
  187. EVs: 248 HP / 112 Def / 148 Spe
  188. [14:30:08] +memesketch: and as a cele/skarm check
  189. [14:30:17] +slainey: prikash suggested that volc set too
  190. [14:30:26] +slainey: i kinda think to run psychium tho
  191. [14:30:36] +Katy: same
  192. [14:30:38] +slainey: hitting pex is really nice
  193. [14:30:39] +Katy: for pex
  194. [14:30:42] +memesketch: what's psychium for
  195. [14:30:44] +memesketch: oh pex
  196. [14:30:44] %Watermess: well all of this depends on the 6 that we build round
  197. [14:30:47] %Watermess: imo
  198. [14:31:04] #AM: if you're going to use z move volcarona and SD Lando you should probably jsut consider smack down lando-t then
  199. [14:31:09] #AM: if paired with m-diancie
  200. [14:31:17] +memesketch: smack down could be cool
  201. [14:31:20] +memesketch: nice lure
  202. [14:31:21] #AM: cause celesteela needs to be completely out of the way including skarmory
  203. [14:31:24] +slainey: yeah smack down is a great lure
  204. [14:31:26] #AM: for diancie to do anything
  205. [14:31:36] +MajesticM: Yeah i like steela lures
  206. [14:31:55] +slainey: so far psychium volc then, mdiancie, sr sd smack down lando right
  207. [14:32:18] @Ruft: Sets kinda depend on which 6 you go with
  208. [14:32:27] @Ruft: I'd pick the mons first then decide on sets
  209. [14:32:32] @Ruft: like watermess mentioned earlier
  210. [14:32:36] +memesketch: so lando would be earth plate right
  211. [14:32:49] +memesketch: //soft sand
  212. [14:32:55] +Katy: Ruft ya that is what im doing as well
  213. [14:32:56] +MajesticM: If we run that i want like
  214. [14:32:59] +slainey: probably but maybe leftovers too not sure yet
  215. [14:33:02] +MajesticM: Ferro + a water
  216. [14:33:29] +memesketch: if we have lefites lando for ttar we could prob go psychium
  217. [14:33:30] +MajesticM: To help with rain and water weakness in general
  218. [14:33:32] +memesketch: let's do that
  219. [14:33:39] +MajesticM: And ttar
  220. [14:34:26] @Ruft: So what do we have rn
  221. [14:34:29] +memesketch: i have this so far
  222. [14:34:30] +memesketch: https://pokepast.es/e58a6570d0c4bfa8
  223. [14:34:47] +memesketch: 3 attacks volc or roost
  224. [14:34:49] +Katy: looks aight to me
  225. [14:34:50] @Ruft: Def need a solid water resist next then
  226. [14:34:54] +memesketch: agreed
  227. [14:34:58] +Katy: tapu fini?
  228. [14:35:12] +memesketch: fini's good for defog and heatran pressure
  229. [14:35:12] @Ruft: I like Ferro for spikes tbh
  230. [14:35:16] %Watermess: fini is too slow for this
  231. [14:35:22] @Ruft: Wears down stuff like tar and tran which can be annoying
  232. [14:35:24] +memesketch: ferro handles ttar better tho
  233. [14:35:27] %Watermess: ferro can work cause hazards make up for being passive
  234. [14:35:39] +MajesticM: Ferro does so much
  235. [14:35:45] +memesketch: ferro also helps with the crippling agren weakness
  236. [14:35:47] +t04ster: yeah
  237. [14:35:49] +memesketch: to an extent
  238. [14:35:51] +MajesticM: Yeah
  239. [14:36:06] +memesketch: if it didn't make the team so defensive i would almost say ferro + fini
  240. [14:36:08] +memesketch: but idk
  241. [14:36:42] +memesketch: we do need a defogger tho
  242. [14:36:49] @Ruft: Yup
  243. [14:37:09] +MajesticM: Wasn't keld still good lol
  244. [14:37:12] %Watermess: im all down for pivot torn
  245. [14:37:16] +memesketch: keld is a problem
  246. [14:37:34] %Watermess: torn allows us to knock lefties from tran and slidge from pex
  247. [14:37:37] @quziel: so er
  248. [14:37:41] @Ruft: I like Torn yeah
  249. [14:37:43] +memesketch: wait if keld is a problem, ash gren and rain in general is a problem, and we need hazard removal
  250. [14:37:45] %Watermess: and provides dog
  251. [14:37:48] %Watermess: fog*
  252. [14:37:50] +memesketch: then modern problems need old solutions
  253. [14:37:50] +MajesticM: What about like
  254. [14:37:53] +memesketch: tentacruel?????
  255. [14:37:56] #Yellow Paint: fini
  256. [14:38:01] @Ruft: Tentacruel isn't really viable
  257. [14:38:05] +MajesticM: Latias and keld with ferro lol
  258. [14:38:07] +memesketch: lol ik
  259. [14:38:09] +MajesticM: I mean
  260. [14:38:12] +MajesticM: Latias and
  261. [14:38:15] +memesketch: thought we just weren't considering fini anymore
  262. [14:38:22] +MajesticM: Idk what i was saying
  263. [14:38:37] #AM: /announce lets pause for one second
  264. [14:38:39] #AM: okay
  265. [14:38:39] +Katy: we need a scarfer
  266. [14:38:46] #AM: lets establish what we have right now
  267. [14:38:46] +Katy: okay am
  268. [14:38:48] +memesketch: whatcha thinkin am
  269. [14:38:59] #AM: someone please paste current build
  270. [14:39:00] +memesketch: i think right now we have ferro lando volc diancie set in stone
  271. [14:39:02] @quziel: er, so dumlb thing, what if lando was scarf fog, and then you added rocks kommo-o instead
  272. [14:39:03] +memesketch: on it
  273. [14:39:12] @quziel: kommo-o helps vs broken frog and heatran, both of which are issues
  274. [14:39:12] @Waves: ooo
  275. [14:39:14] +memesketch: https://pokepast.es/cbd80f64ed3b8140
  276. [14:39:14] @Waves: good thought quz
  277. [14:39:24] +t04ster: fire
  278. [14:39:25] %Watermess: i have this rn https://pokepast.es/b334646835148630
  279. [14:39:25] @quziel: its not hyper aggressive though, but generally slots in ok on BO
  280. [14:39:30] +memesketch: spdef kommo is good but we do have rocks already
  281. [14:39:30] #AM: okay so
  282. [14:39:36] %Watermess: but sets canall change
  283. [14:39:39] #AM: this team needs an additional and consistent water resist
  284. [14:39:42] @Waves: rocks tox kommo is a sick set
  285. [14:39:43] #AM: like its absolutely mandatory
  286. [14:39:55] +memesketch: more consistent than fini?
  287. [14:39:56] #AM: you have 3 water weak mons in a metagame where ash greninja exists
  288. [14:40:01] +Katy: bulu
  289. [14:40:02] @quziel: hence why me saying "run scarf lando"
  290. [14:40:06] @Ruft: Kommo-o is a pretty good idea imo
  291. [14:40:12] +MajesticM: Ngl i like like
  292. [14:40:14] +MajesticM: Gyara lol
  293. [14:40:26] +memesketch: we have z and mega used
  294. [14:40:26] @Ruft: Gyara without Z is bad
  295. [14:40:30] %Watermess: you could use elec z kommo-o here actually, to lure pex
  296. [14:40:34] +MajesticM: You're right
  297. [14:40:36] +memesketch: that's a set?
  298. [14:40:37] +memesketch: heat
  299. [14:40:45] +MajesticM: We did use our z
  300. [14:40:46] +memesketch: or just bd kommo
  301. [14:40:47] +MajesticM: So
  302. [14:40:56] @Waves: idt bd kommo fits
  303. [14:40:57] +memesketch: but this isn't ho
  304. [14:41:01] #AM: I agree with q, I think there should be some consideration of rocks diancie and spikes ferro (already there) with scarf lando-t
  305. [14:41:02] %Watermess: drum kommo-o without veil is p bad
  306. [14:41:08] +MajesticM: Are we using the lando or the torn?
  307. [14:41:09] +memesketch: yeah without screens you can't sub up besides vs ferro
  308. [14:41:10] #AM: and make lando scarf
  309. [14:41:13] #AM: for speed control
  310. [14:41:16] +Katy: we need a scarfer
  311. [14:41:18] +Katy: in gen7
  312. [14:41:20] +Katy: speed is huge
  313. [14:41:30] +memesketch: yeah speed is everything
  314. [14:41:35] +memesketch: and with our mega zam weakness
  315. [14:41:39] +memesketch: i like scarf lando
  316. [14:41:49] +slainey: https://pokepast.es/921499822d165ab5 prikash said this set for scarf
  317. [14:41:51] +Katy: ya
  318. [14:41:55] +Katy: lando w scarf
  319. [14:41:56] +slainey: since u guys are talkin about scarf lando
  320. [14:41:57] +memesketch: yeah slainey
  321. [14:41:58] +memesketch: that's it
  322. [14:42:00] +Katy: at least 196 speed
  323. [14:42:02] @Ruft: That would be it yup
  324. [14:42:07] +Katy: for jumpin 1 point on mega zam
  325. [14:42:17] +memesketch: 208
  326. [14:42:18] %Watermess: scarf rotom could be cute if we already have ferro, allows us to cripple stuff with trick
  327. [14:42:22] +memesketch: to catch +1 kommo
  328. [14:42:29] +memesketch: is optimal
  329. [14:42:29] %Watermess: gimmicky set tho
  330. [14:42:49] +MajesticM: I thought about rotom but i feel like keld still fucks us up
  331. [14:43:00] +memesketch: rocks over protect or dstorm on diancie
  332. [14:43:04] %Watermess: keld is like barely OU in usage
  333. [14:43:08] +memesketch: if over dstorm we need something else for zap
  334. [14:43:16] %Watermess: lets really not worry about it v much
  335. [14:43:20] %Watermess: nobody uses that crap lol
  336. [14:43:22] +memesketch: watermess just like a certain water fighting in current gen that keeps haning on
  337. [14:43:33] +memesketch: badshifu
  338. [14:43:35] @quziel: is diancie/kommo-o/scarf fog lando/volc/rotom-wash
  339. [14:43:38] @quziel: functional?
  340. [14:43:48] +slainey: hm
  341. [14:43:56] +slainey: ist his a bit weak to kart
  342. [14:43:59] %Watermess: dependson last
  343. [14:44:02] +memesketch: i kinda like it
  344. [14:44:07] %Watermess: u have volc so ur not really that kart weak
  345. [14:44:14] +memesketch: drop ferro, keep diancie as is, and run rocks on kommo
  346. [14:44:17] @quziel: you could def do
  347. [14:44:18] %Watermess: only to the z giga ones
  348. [14:44:19] +slainey: ig so but +2 knock or z giga ohkos im ps ure
  349. [14:44:25] +memesketch: protect kommo helps with ash gren too
  350. [14:44:29] @quziel: diancie/volc/kommo-o/scarf fog lando/rotom-wash/av mage?
  351. [14:44:34] @quziel: which I think is like
  352. [14:44:39] +slainey: then again karts just broken
  353. [14:44:43] +slainey: so rlly doesnt matter
  354. [14:44:44] @quziel: mostly ok vs most threats
  355. [14:44:49] +memesketch: no excuse not to prep for it
  356. [14:45:04] %Watermess: u can do hp fire mage if ur really afraid of kart, it also compounds the tran weak tho
  357. [14:45:07] +slainey: i like the av mage more
  358. [14:45:11] +slainey: so we dont get obliterated by lele
  359. [14:45:22] @Ruft: Need a steel ye
  360. [14:45:32] +Katy: we need a good steel anyway
  361. [14:45:33] +memesketch: av mage works well, can pivot with lando and into diancie
  362. [14:45:33] +Katy: for spex lele
  363. [14:45:43] #AM: https://pokepast.es/b417e74695288162
  364. [14:45:53] +memesketch: thought we had kommo > ferro
  365. [14:45:55] @Ruft: https://pokepast.es/1bfe45c249e535ce
  366. [14:46:05] #AM: that paste I put is my idea not group build
  367. [14:46:15] @Ruft: oops wrong Volc
  368. [14:46:29] @quziel: with the right volc I think i like that build Ruft
  369. [14:46:30] #AM: you need rotom-w for mswampert rain
  370. [14:46:31] %Watermess: the ruft build looks nice
  371. [14:46:34] +memesketch: ruft heat volc
  372. [14:46:38] +MajesticM: Is that play aroundable enough to waters?
  373. [14:46:43] @Ruft: I copied it from someone else's paste lol
  374. [14:46:51] #AM: I like rufts too
  375. [14:46:51] @quziel: I think that like washtom + protox kommo-o
  376. [14:46:52] @Ruft: https://pokepast.es/2b5373f7da0b8213
  377. [14:46:53] @quziel: with av mage
  378. [14:46:55] @Ruft: I think this was the idea
  379. [14:46:55] @quziel: should be enough
  380. [14:47:00] +Katy: majestic with rotom + ferro it should
  381. [14:47:09] +Katy: they can handle mpert
  382. [14:47:09] @quziel: its def a bit weak to pex though
  383. [14:47:17] %Watermess: the ruft build does feel a little weak tho, offensively
  384. [14:47:18] +memesketch: eq on kommo to start?
  385. [14:47:24] +memesketch: or is that not an option
  386. [14:47:27] @quziel: perhaps mage is cm split with iapapa
  387. [14:47:34] @quziel: which I think is good?
  388. [14:47:43] +memesketch: quizel or we could run ruft's volc with offensive elec z rotom
  389. [14:47:45] @quziel: that set isn't a wholly free win vs stall anymore, but its still a nice one
  390. [14:48:00] @Ruft: It's not my Volc I copied it from someone else's paste fwiw
  391. [14:48:02] @quziel: ye, I just never love non-zmove volc cause you lose a lot of power
  392. [14:48:04] +memesketch: yeah ik
  393. [14:48:04] +slainey: i think as long as we run psychium z pex is fine
  394. [14:48:15] +memesketch: true volc does lure pex with that
  395. [14:48:22] @quziel: !code
  396. Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
  397. Ability: Magic Bounce
  398. EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
  399. [14:48:27] @quziel: whoops, forgot about paste lol
  400. [14:48:34] #AM: need to also cover the manaphy matchup granted you have speed control but make sure theres decent enough counterplay there
  401. [14:48:48] +MajesticM: Was just wondering about that
  402. [14:48:49] +slainey: prikash said this for the magearna https://pokepast.es/86d2a2df4f544a81
  403. [14:48:55] +slainey: i like the cm 1 more tho than this
  404. [14:49:00] +slainey: cus cm split helps stall mu
  405. [14:49:06] @quziel: ye, think the CM mage gives you a tiny bit better pex matchup
  406. [14:49:11] +memesketch: i would honestly prefer av
  407. [14:49:13] @quziel: which, while definitely something this team can deal with, is still nicer
  408. [14:49:14] +memesketch: clef is a huge problem
  409. [14:49:16] +memesketch: for this team
  410. [14:49:28] +Katy: we can lure in mpert and mana
  411. [14:49:28] @quziel: I think between CM mage and volc its not undoable
  412. [14:49:33] +Katy: with energy ball maggy
  413. [14:49:58] +memesketch: i think we cover pert with rotom well
  414. [14:50:34] @Ruft: Yeah Rotom usually does well vs rain
  415. [14:50:37] +memesketch: and no matter what we probably sack a mon to vortex if manaphy manages to get +3 in the rain
  416. [14:50:56] @quziel: I mean, honestly that happens to every team not running literally like
  417. [14:51:01] @quziel: gastrodon
  418. [14:51:01] +memesketch: gastro
  419. [14:51:04] +memesketch: yeah
  420. [14:51:07] @quziel: and it can be rkilled
  421. [14:51:16] +memesketch: not easily but yes
  422. [14:51:20] +MajesticM: Lowkey mana woulda been lit on this team but it's too late now
  423. [14:51:40] +memesketch: if we went the HO route maybe
  424. [14:51:51] +memesketch: 3 attacks rainless mana like in gen 6
  425. [14:51:53] +MajesticM: No i like this team
  426. [14:51:59] +memesketch: same
  427. [14:52:17] +memesketch: we gotta decide on av or calmsplit mage then we're done i think
  428. [14:52:24] @quziel: ultimately I think you gotta consider offensive presence as well as defensive stuff
  429. [14:52:30] +memesketch: we could vote unless most of you guys want calmsplit
  430. [14:52:42] @quziel: AV mage pushes the team in a way more defensive direction
  431. [14:52:55] +Katy: i think cm mag
  432. [14:52:58] @quziel: that said, I always prioritize offensive presence
  433. [14:52:59] +Katy: could work
  434. [14:53:16] +memesketch: i concur
  435. [14:53:24] +memesketch: we just need to tiptoe around lele more
  436. [14:53:34] +memesketch: wiki berry mage right
  437. [14:53:35] +MajesticM: Wait why did we say kommo again?
  438. [14:53:36] +memesketch: or shuca
  439. [14:53:43] @quziel: checks heatran and gren
  440. [14:53:46] @quziel: wiki imo
  441. [14:53:48] @quziel: for hte mage matchup
  442. [14:53:49] +memesketch: majesticm rocks, heatran check, agren check
  443. [14:53:55] @quziel: between lando and washtom its ok vs most grounds
  444. [14:53:57] +memesketch: kommo will help a lot
  445. [14:54:09] @quziel: (3 attacks mixed mchomp hurts, but like, that mon is silly)
  446. [14:54:11] +memesketch: and the team loses to opposing rotom without kommo
  447. [14:54:31] +memesketch: that set is goated
  448. [14:54:38] +memesketch: i used it in natdex before natdex sucks
  449. [14:54:40] +memesketch: *sucked
  450. [14:54:47] +MajesticM: Wait we're running double rocks?
  451. [14:54:55] +memesketch: diancie is 3 attacks protect
  452. [14:55:04] +Katy: !code
  453. Magearna @ Leftovers
  454. Ability: Soul-Heart
  455. EVs: 248 HP / 124 Def / 136 Spe
  456. [14:55:08] +Katy: what ya think?
  457. [14:55:29] +memesketch: !code
  458. Magearna @ Wiki Berry
  459. Ability: Soul-Heart
  460. EVs: 248 HP / 28 Def / 224 SpA / 8 SpD
  461. [14:55:35] +memesketch: this one i think
  462. [14:55:48] +memesketch: mage is our stallbreaker
  463. [14:56:03] +MajesticM: Oh it's tect now I
  464. [14:56:04] +MajesticM: Ok
  465. [14:57:15] +Katy: other suggestions?
  466. [14:57:36] +memesketch: i think we're solid
  467. [14:57:50] @Ruft: So which Mage are we going w
  468. [14:58:08] +memesketch: calm split with wiki berry
  469. [14:58:09] %Ho3nConfirm3d: i like the wiki berry
  470. [14:58:11] +memesketch: fleur tbolt
  471. [14:58:36] @Ruft: https://pokepast.es/2c71a158489043c1 like this then?
  472. [14:58:57] +memesketch: i have that as the team yeah
  473. [14:59:22] @Ruft: Cool
  474. [14:59:28] +Katy: same
  475. [14:59:41] @Ruft: Could try fitting defog on Rotom too as additional Volc support but prob not mandatory
  476. [15:00:05] @Ruft: Think we can move on to the next build then
  477. [15:00:12] +Katy: ya that looks good
  478. [15:00:17] +Katy: suppots volc well
  479. [15:00:34] +Katy: volt turn + defog + magic bouncer
  480. [15:00:41] +Katy: shud be okay to support volc
  481. [15:01:08] @Waves: aight, are we good to move on to team #2?
  482. [15:01:16] +Katy: ya
  483. [15:01:22] +Katy: i am
  484. [15:01:28] +Katy: not sure bout the others tho
  485. [15:01:31] +MajesticM: Seems like it
  486. [15:02:03] @Waves: AM MrAldo can one of you make an announcement telling ppl to DM me core submissions for team #2
  487. [15:02:43] @Waves: submissions are open btw
  488. [15:04:00] #AM: sorry waves
  489. [15:04:03] #AM: I just wrapped up a game
  490. [15:04:06] #AM: my attention is here now
  491. [15:04:55] #AM: /announce Please DM Waves cores for team #2 for Sun Moon Overused workshop
  492. [15:05:42] #AM: waves how many do we have so far?
  493. [15:05:52] @Waves: two
  494. [15:05:54] @Waves: send em in lads
  495. [15:07:09] #AM: /announce Please DM Waves cores for team #2 for Sun Moon Overused workshop
  496. [15:07:09] +Katy: do i have enuff time for toilet?
  497. [15:07:13] #AM: yes katy
  498. [15:07:16] +memesketch: probably
  499. [15:07:18] +Katy: oh thank god brb
  500. [15:07:24] @Waves: yeah only 3 submissions youve got time katy
  501. [15:07:33] +MajesticM: Do we wanna go more offense? Lol
  502. [15:07:53] #AM: I like some goons as well
  503. [15:08:15] +memesketch: depends on what people want to submit probably, and to be fair the last one didn't end up being too offensive
  504. [15:08:27] @Waves: ok we've got five, keep em coming lads
  505. [15:09:24] #AM: waves I got it sorry for late
  506. [15:09:25] #AM: smh
  507. [15:09:26] @Waves: thank you whichever RO did that very cool
  508. [15:09:32] @Waves: it's fine am
  509. [15:11:01] #AM: okay my game is done so im focusing on here more
  510. [15:11:55] +Katy: my pc is a bit crazy rn
  511. [15:12:10] @Waves: ok we have enough submissions :D
  512. [15:12:12] @Waves: thanks guys
  513. [15:12:14] @Waves: here we go
  514. [15:12:18] #AM: was about to ask
  515. [15:12:19] #AM: lol
  516. [15:12:34] +Katy: lets see what these submissions are
  517. [15:12:44] #AM: majesticm praying right now to use some goons
  518. [15:12:44] A poll was started by Waves.
  519. [15:12:51] @Waves: one sec
  520. [15:12:52] +memesketch: can i check all of them
  521. [15:12:56] @quziel: you can if you want
  522. [15:12:58] A poll was started by Waves.
  523. [15:13:00] @quziel: but that's the same as not voting
  524. [15:13:11] +memesketch: yeah true
  525. [15:13:12] @Waves: i actually had too many submissions, the poll command only allows eight
  526. [15:13:12] #AM: oh mega medi
  527. [15:13:15] #AM: top goon
  528. [15:13:21] @Waves: sorry to toastedcream and randombattler762 :[
  529. [15:14:42] @Waves: am can you ping the people one more time
  530. [15:15:17] +slainey: if you guys have any ideas or want to put in your 2 cents dm me
  531. [15:18:31] +memesketch: ooh sand
  532. [15:18:39] @Waves: sand time
  533. [15:18:42] +MajesticM: M chomp is so cool
  534. [15:18:45] +Katy: reminds me of kickassers team almost
  535. [15:18:46] +MajesticM: A goon
  536. [15:18:46] +memesketch: one of the best teamstyles in 7
  537. [15:18:48] @Ruft: Sand setter + 2 sand abusers
  538. [15:18:49] @Ruft: coolio
  539. [15:19:00] +t04ster: sounds good
  540. [15:19:10] +Katy: do we go smooth rock on tha tar?
  541. [15:19:12] +memesketch: so we have ice fighting ground and water weaknesses to cover up first off
  542. [15:19:21] +memesketch: that's a tall order
  543. [15:19:34] +memesketch: maybe a regen core?
  544. [15:19:43] +Katy: ice fight and water weakness ez covered by pex
  545. [15:19:48] +memesketch: or bro
  546. [15:19:53] #AM: well yeah with these kind of sand builds you'll have to add on the 3 mons to cover those entirely especially things like kyurem-b
  547. [15:20:14] #AM: since ttar only checks once, twice if lucky
  548. [15:20:32] +MajesticM: Throw a tang on there
  549. [15:20:35] #AM: you also need to consider counterplay for spikes + scarf lando-t
  550. [15:20:43] #AM: since all are grounded
  551. [15:20:51] #AM: and mega zam + spike builds are very dangerous against it
  552. [15:20:56] @Ruft: A defogger would be nice yeah
  553. [15:21:02] +memesketch: i'm more worried about lando-t
  554. [15:21:07] +memesketch: since drill can't rkill it
  555. [15:21:14] #AM: as well as consider you're options for opposing weather archetypes like char-y sand
  556. [15:21:16] #AM: *char-y
  557. [15:21:19] #AM: not char-y sand lol
  558. [15:21:32] +memesketch: char-y sand is a thing
  559. [15:21:36] +Katy: just say zardy xD
  560. [15:21:37] +MajesticM: Yes
  561. [15:21:41] +memesketch: zardy plus ttar and drill
  562. [15:21:42] #AM: lets figure out mons first
  563. [15:21:49] #AM: then we can figure out different specific counterplays
  564. [15:21:49] +memesketch: is the standard zardy team iirc
  565. [15:22:09] #AM: like magnet rise exca to dodge scarf lando-eq, or other techs out of the ordinary
  566. [15:22:11] +memesketch: yeah i agree, let's figure out the sets for chomp drill and ttar before we do anything else
  567. [15:22:27] +memesketch: oh you meant the opposite
  568. [15:22:52] +Katy: first the mons then the sets
  569. [15:23:31] #AM: ttar, m-chomp, exca is going to pretty much blow through spdef fat so I think whatever we need to handle there is covered
  570. [15:23:43] +memesketch: AquaVanillla: i feel like something like skarmory could do well to cover ur grass weakness and ground.
  571. [15:23:51] +memesketch: skarm could be interesting
  572. [15:23:56] +memesketch: spikes does wonders for this core
  573. [15:24:02] +Katy: ya but leaves us even more weak to zardy
  574. [15:24:16] +memesketch: so we'd need to run pex with skarm
  575. [15:24:22] +Katy: ya
  576. [15:24:23] @Waves: i'll be back in 2 minutes
  577. [15:24:23] +memesketch: just something to consider
  578. [15:24:34] #AM: should establish a goal
  579. [15:24:47] #AM: so lets assume goal is for m-chomp to break everything long term
  580. [15:24:56] +MajesticM: That means hazards at a minimum
  581. [15:24:57] +memesketch: mega chomp is sd or mixed
  582. [15:24:57] #AM: or exca to clean
  583. [15:25:04] +memesketch: and if sd 3 attacks or sub
  584. [15:25:08] +memesketch: that all plays a role
  585. [15:25:08] #AM: team dynamic changes based on mega chomp set
  586. [15:25:31] +MajesticM: While mixed is i think the more used set, i think sd is more fun
  587. [15:25:35] +MajesticM: What do you guys think?
  588. [15:25:37] #AM: prefer sd
  589. [15:25:43] +memesketch: mixed is the set outside of sand usually
  590. [15:25:44] +Katy: sd ya
  591. [15:25:54] +memesketch: sd is better in sand cause edge with sand force blows back fire blast targets
  592. [15:25:56] @Ruft: SD makes sense w sand force
  593. [15:25:58] @Ruft: ye
  594. [15:25:58] #AM: !dt mega-garchomp
  595. [15:26:03] +MajesticM: Exactly
  596. [15:26:04] #AM: speed tier needs to be considered
  597. [15:26:10] +Katy: we can go
  598. [15:26:10] +memesketch: 283 with adamant
  599. [15:26:11] +Katy: sd
  600. [15:26:12] #AM: when adding partners
  601. [15:26:13] +memesketch: 311 jolly
  602. [15:26:23] +Katy: edgequake
  603. [15:26:29] +Katy: + fire move
  604. [15:26:32] +Katy: on chomp
  605. [15:26:34] +memesketch: sd edgequake sub maybe
  606. [15:26:38] +memesketch: fire move i don't think we need
  607. [15:26:40] #AM: I prefer jolly for the simple reason that the speed tier slightly crowded
  608. [15:26:51] +memesketch: edge does the same amount to bulu skarm and steela as fire fang does in sand
  609. [15:26:51] #AM: in between the ada/jolly benhcmark
  610. [15:27:00] +memesketch: unless accuracy or kart is a worry
  611. [15:27:06] +MajesticM: Its not like m chomp needs even more atk anyway lol
  612. [15:27:09] #AM: you have timid suicune, timid nido, jolly lando, etc.
  613. [15:27:21] #AM: you dont want to risk scald burn from suicune, or ice beam from nido
  614. [15:27:28] +memesketch: or eq from jolly drill
  615. [15:27:31] #AM: yes
  616. [15:27:37] +memesketch: or even a gyara hit
  617. [15:27:41] +memesketch: gyara's at 287 right there
  618. [15:27:41] #AM: edgequake + fire seems fine
  619. [15:27:52] #AM: yes
  620. [15:28:01] @quziel: subsd matches with my memory of it
  621. [15:28:28] +memesketch: sub sd is good for the switches it forces
  622. [15:28:44] #AM: blocks status too
  623. [15:28:50] +memesketch: yeah
  624. [15:28:54] #AM: we should figure out direction of additional partners
  625. [15:28:54] @quziel: also leech seed
  626. [15:29:01] #AM: yeah against ferro
  627. [15:29:05] @quziel: and cele
  628. [15:29:07] +memesketch: and prob lives pex/alo scald behind sub
  629. [15:29:15] #AM: so lets assume that
  630. [15:29:19] +memesketch: alo more importantly
  631. [15:29:19] #AM: we'll use subsd
  632. [15:29:27] #AM: for now
  633. [15:29:35] #AM: then if necessary we can considering defensive benchmarks
  634. [15:29:47] #AM: as in not breaking sub from a specific scald user for example
  635. [15:30:37] #AM: what are our options for m-zam spike stack, TG Manaphy builds (rain for example), M-Medicham
  636. [15:30:48] #AM: other stuff there as well but I definitely want to see those covered
  637. [15:30:54] #AM: either through offensive or defensive options
  638. [15:30:55] @quziel: so I assume we've got sr and removal here right
  639. [15:31:00] @quziel: my mind says that like
  640. [15:31:03] @quziel: ground immunity is er
  641. [15:31:08] @quziel: probably necessary here
  642. [15:31:10] +memesketch: am slowbro covers a lot of that stuff
  643. [15:31:14] +memesketch: slowbro + torn could work
  644. [15:31:18] +MajesticM: So gastro beats like rain and helps vs zam and what not
  645. [15:31:27] #AM: I like that idea with bro/torn
  646. [15:31:39] #AM: since the core covers most electrics
  647. [15:31:39] +MajesticM: That does sound good
  648. [15:31:40] +memesketch: we'd need bro if a goal is to check mega medi
  649. [15:31:42] @quziel: does that leave us enough space for agren though?
  650. [15:31:51] +memesketch: hm
  651. [15:31:56] #AM: mega-medi important to check the core hates it exca require to have sand to revenge
  652. [15:32:10] @Ruft: Bro would help w that yeah
  653. [15:32:17] +memesketch: what else checks mega medi
  654. [15:32:33] +Katy: slowbro
  655. [15:32:37] +Katy: is a nice option ya
  656. [15:32:37] #AM: fat pyschics normally but I think bro has the benefit of being a mandatary water resist
  657. [15:32:40] +memesketch: anything besides bro?
  658. [15:32:44] +memesketch: mew doesn't fit on the team
  659. [15:32:45] @Ruft: Reuni
  660. [15:32:47] +memesketch: neither does reuni
  661. [15:32:48] #AM: because we do need that
  662. [15:32:50] +memesketch: unless?
  663. [15:32:51] @quziel: clef is always an option
  664. [15:33:03] @Ruft: I've used Reuni on sand but it might not have the space here
  665. [15:33:10] +memesketch: we do have rocks already tho and unaware can't fit with the sand and the hazard problem
  666. [15:33:16] #AM: I like reuni sand but not with m-chomp as mega
  667. [15:33:18] @Ruft: ye
  668. [15:33:29] #AM: because most cases I'm using m-lati some old school spike stack type build
  669. [15:33:30] +memesketch: maybe with a mega like scizor or ttar itself?
  670. [15:33:44] @Ruft: The build idea was mchomp
  671. [15:33:53] +memesketch: but yeah back to the team, bro is prob the best option
  672. [15:33:55] #AM: let's stick with bro/torn for now to keep things straightforward
  673. [15:34:02] #AM: and analyze weaknesses after
  674. [15:34:07] +memesketch: lefties or helmet bro
  675. [15:34:47] #AM: I like helmet to punish u-turn spammers/contact attacker
  676. [15:34:47] +MajesticM: So we're assuming m chomp is how we're breaking steela and skarm and what not right? We don't need anything else to help?
  677. [15:34:48] +memesketch: i guess lefties for sand
  678. [15:34:58] +MajesticM: I'm assuming spin on drill too?
  679. [15:35:00] #AM: but I do see merit in lefties
  680. [15:35:06] +memesketch: helmet could help with our massive medi/lop weakness tho so i'm cool with helmet
  681. [15:35:11] #AM: yeah we'll need spin here for the time being
  682. [15:35:20] #AM: we can change after if we want to use fog torn-t
  683. [15:35:25] +memesketch: wb torn defogging
  684. [15:35:35] #AM: we could do like
  685. [15:35:41] #AM: defog torn, sd exca
  686. [15:35:46] #AM: to apply added pressure
  687. [15:35:51] #AM: maybe even a z-move
  688. [15:36:04] +memesketch: idt we need rock slide on exca
  689. [15:36:14] +memesketch: since we have ttar plus chomp for zap and such
  690. [15:36:19] #AM: probably not we want to break clef anyways with iron
  691. [15:36:29] #AM: like unaware
  692. [15:36:50] +memesketch: so sd eq iron head spin with steelium?
  693. [15:36:58] +Katy: ya
  694. [15:37:08] #AM: for now let's keep it that
  695. [15:37:32] #AM: [15:37:26] AquaVanillla: how is the team gonna break skarmory
  696. [15:37:38] #AM: ^ valid point
  697. [15:37:44] AquaVanillla was promoted to Room Voice by Waves.
  698. [15:37:44] @Waves: temp
  699. [15:37:48] #AM: need to be able to pressure longterm
  700. [15:37:57] +AquaVanillla: cool
  701. [15:38:04] #AM: whirlwinds out sd users
  702. [15:38:15] +MajesticM: Lol i said that
  703. [15:38:16] +memesketch: i think we def put flamethrower on bro
  704. [15:38:21] +memesketch: or even heat wave on torn
  705. [15:38:36] +memesketch: or we could do fire blast ttar
  706. [15:38:38] #AM: torn should have heat wave otherwise the immediate matchup with ferro will be an absolute pain
  707. [15:38:42] +memesketch: true
  708. [15:38:43] +AquaVanillla: yeah
  709. [15:38:48] +Katy: ya
  710. [15:38:52] +Katy: h-wave tornt
  711. [15:38:52] +AquaVanillla: ferro and skarmory just walls us.
  712. [15:38:52] #AM: think we need to consider the practical scenario of what happens with builds
  713. [15:38:59] +memesketch: no defog then?
  714. [15:39:07] +memesketch: it needs knock
  715. [15:39:08] +AquaVanillla: dont we have rapid?
  716. [15:39:09] #AM: hurricane, heat wave, knock, defog?
  717. [15:39:11] +memesketch: and u-turn
  718. [15:39:41] +AquaVanillla: is the moveset hurricane, heatwave, knock and uturn?
  719. [15:39:43] +memesketch: we could go without u-turn probably, nothing else on the team has volt turn
  720. [15:40:01] +memesketch: and it's not like bro can use tp this gen
  721. [15:40:33] #AM: I would like defog torn for now even if it feels weird to have dual removal but I think it helps in this case because a lot of our team is require to keep spikes off field
  722. [15:40:41] +MajesticM: There's gonna need to be something else that can pressure skarm and help with agren
  723. [15:40:48] #AM: yes
  724. [15:40:48] +Katy: t-spikes are a pain
  725. [15:40:52] +Katy: so dual removal
  726. [15:40:54] +Katy: is fine i guess
  727. [15:41:04] +memesketch: if tspike and ashgren are a problem
  728. [15:41:07] +memesketch: why not pex
  729. [15:41:18] +memesketch: but pex + bro is a little awkward come to think of it
  730. [15:41:32] #AM: it makes the matchup against kyurem-b a bit unbearable
  731. [15:41:39] +Ox the Fox: any1 have paste of the team so far
  732. [15:41:40] #AM: outside of revenging it
  733. [15:41:45] +memesketch: i think so ox
  734. [15:41:50] #AM: its fine if its not evd
  735. [15:41:56] #AM: all the way
  736. [15:42:01] +memesketch: https://pokepast.es/88ad52dc94b5fd61
  737. [15:42:10] +Ox the Fox: ty
  738. [15:42:30] #AM: [15:42:08] Micproblemz: u can do a ferra with leech spikes protect and power whip
  739. [15:42:36] +memesketch: just put rocks on ttar but we gotta figure out that mon's set
  740. [15:42:54] +memesketch: rocks pursuit rock move and
  741. [15:42:56] #AM: chople tar imo
  742. [15:43:07] +memesketch: we got bro and torn
  743. [15:43:13] +memesketch: oh for zam
  744. [15:43:14] #AM: its for char-y mostly
  745. [15:43:15] #AM: and that
  746. [15:43:16] +memesketch: or that
  747. [15:43:31] #AM: medi kills anyways
  748. [15:44:17] +AquaVanillla: mega diancie looks like a problem imo
  749. [15:44:23] +Ox the Fox: weav is a huge threat too
  750. [15:44:23] #AM: yes
  751. [15:44:27] #AM: hm
  752. [15:44:33] +memesketch: oh yeah weavile is a problem and a half
  753. [15:44:41] +memesketch: gonna have to pivot around that probably
  754. [15:44:45] +Ox the Fox: also kart can be obnoxious
  755. [15:44:52] +memesketch: torn covers kart ok
  756. [15:44:58] #AM: scarf still annoying
  757. [15:45:03] +Ox the Fox: 2hkos tornt after rocks right
  758. [15:45:06] +memesketch: especially cause it usually won't miss cause of heat wave
  759. [15:45:07] #AM: yeah
  760. [15:45:22] #AM: especially if the pressure is really applied
  761. [15:45:36] #AM: this team will benefit from a bulky grass of sorts but need to cover weavile as well
  762. [15:45:36] +memesketch: so we need something that covers kart, agren, diancie, and tspike?
  763. [15:45:40] +memesketch: easy, amoong
  764. [15:45:49] +memesketch: BUT weavile
  765. [15:45:50] +memesketch: hmmm
  766. [15:46:03] +Ox the Fox: could potentially use amoong/tang > slowbro
  767. [15:46:07] +MajesticM: What if we revisit gastro again? Lol
  768. [15:46:07] @quziel: getting all thos eand weavile seems impossible
  769. [15:46:11] @quziel: what if its just AV tang last
  770. [15:46:14] @quziel: and say that you can play around weavi
  771. [15:46:20] @quziel: or even just put colbur on bro
  772. [15:46:27] +MajesticM: Like gastro amoong
  773. [15:46:30] +memesketch: colbur compromises the medi mu
  774. [15:46:42] +MajesticM: But right that loses to mmedi
  775. [15:46:43] +memesketch: what's the ttar spread
  776. [15:46:48] +memesketch: if it's rocks support chople
  777. [15:47:55] +AquaVanillla: whats the team rn
  778. [15:48:00] #AM: right now its
  779. [15:48:08] %Watermess: I'm back :3 what's being built
  780. [15:48:14] +Ox the Fox: tar exca mchomper
  781. [15:48:16] #AM: chople ttar, subsd m-chomp, exca, bro, torn
  782. [15:48:37] #AM: with consideration of bulky pivot to cover diancie, greninja but have trouble with weavile
  783. [15:48:43] %Watermess: Natural partner is probably a fat grass
  784. [15:48:53] %Watermess: Usually you'd run pex here
  785. [15:48:55] %Watermess: Over bro
  786. [15:49:00] %Watermess: Cause it covers ash gren
  787. [15:49:04] +memesketch: so pex tang?
  788. [15:49:10] %Watermess: Pex tang works nice
  789. [15:49:23] %Watermess: Super Standard looking but it works fineStandard
  790. [15:49:23] +AquaVanillla: AV tang?
  791. [15:49:24] +memesketch: physdef tang for sure then, can't get 6-0d by medi and lop
  792. [15:49:29] +AquaVanillla: oh ok
  793. [15:49:31] %Watermess: Ye
  794. [15:49:33] +memesketch: cause pex needs to be physdef
  795. [15:49:34] +memesketch: *spdef
  796. [15:49:39] %Watermess: Mhm exactly
  797. [15:50:15] +Katy: phy def tang + spdef pex
  798. [15:50:41] +memesketch: lucky ttar's built in cause otherwise mega zam would destroy us
  799. [15:50:49] %Watermess: Defog bulky pivot torn cause lucha is a nightmare for these builds
  800. [15:51:01] %Watermess: Gotta play smart
  801. [15:51:04] #AM: hm yeah
  802. [15:51:06] #AM: good catch
  803. [15:51:27] %Watermess: It will be fine cause helmet tang covers most of the partners meant to chip zap/torn
  804. [15:51:36] %Watermess: But you have to bare it in mind
  805. [15:51:37] #AM: zeefable asked how its going btw
  806. [15:51:48] +AquaVanillla: still worried abt mega diancie
  807. [15:51:54] #AM: but I think we're at somewhat a standstill because we will eventually be weak to something
  808. [15:51:58] #AM: without playing ballsy
  809. [15:52:24] +Katy: the thing with gen7 ou is
  810. [15:52:32] +Katy: u always somewhat a little weak
  811. [15:52:33] +Katy: to smth
  812. [15:52:35] +MajesticM: Lando will still be tough
  813. [15:52:47] +MajesticM: But it's chippable
  814. [15:53:09] +MajesticM: We're running Rocky on something right?
  815. [15:53:12] #AM: oh wow
  816. [15:53:20] #AM: this build is annoyed to hell by rotom-w
  817. [15:53:21] #AM: holy moly
  818. [15:53:23] +memesketch: both torn and tang have rocky
  819. [15:53:24] #AM: >_>
  820. [15:53:30] +MajesticM: Cool
  821. [15:53:32] @Waves: what do we have so far?
  822. [15:53:44] +AquaVanillla: tang, tornt, pex, mega chomp, ttar and
  823. [15:53:45] +AquaVanillla: drill
  824. [15:53:49] +MajesticM: The core + pex and tang
  825. [15:54:04] +MajesticM: Spd pex and physd tang
  826. [15:54:08] +memesketch: we still need a ttar spread
  827. [15:55:14] #AM: the analysis really doesnt have one for gen 7?
  828. [15:55:23] +memesketch: nope
  829. [15:55:31] #AM: well considering that it's there to check zam/char-y
  830. [15:55:38] +memesketch: max max?
  831. [15:55:59] +AquaVanillla: legit the sets in the analysis are just AV or dd
  832. [15:56:00] +Katy: smth like the av spread
  833. [15:56:02] #AM: im checking gen 6 for a sec
  834. [15:56:02] +Katy: i would say
  835. [15:56:27] #AM: I think the old set
  836. [15:56:32] #AM: from gen 6 would be fine
  837. [15:56:38] #AM: since it also helps a bit with char-x
  838. [15:57:09] #AM: its 248 hp/ 80 def/ 180 relaxed
  839. [15:57:15] #AM: 180 spdef
  840. [15:57:17] +memesketch: eq in the last slot?
  841. [15:57:24] +memesketch: or fire punch
  842. [15:57:30] +memesketch: or even ice beam
  843. [15:57:35] #AM: ice beam imo
  844. [15:57:37] +AquaVanillla: we could use ice beam i mean
  845. [15:57:38] +AquaVanillla: for lando
  846. [15:57:40] #AM: yes
  847. [15:57:43] +memesketch: if we go one of the first two we don't have to lower speed
  848. [15:57:45] #AM: pursuit, edge, ice beam , sr
  849. [15:57:47] +memesketch: but ice beam is prob best yeah
  850. [15:57:50] +AquaVanillla: yeah that seems fine
  851. [15:57:55] +Katy: ice beam can lure in gliscor too
  852. [15:57:58] +AquaVanillla: yeah^
  853. [15:58:02] +Katy: which could be nice for the team
  854. [15:58:09] #AM: lets do that
  855. [15:58:18] +memesketch: oh yeah we're mad weak to any gliscor with toxic or rocks
  856. [15:58:19] +Sensei Axew: can someone link the team
  857. [15:58:19] #AM: did we decide on third slot?
  858. [15:58:40] +memesketch: i'll put the team here
  859. [15:58:43] +memesketch: we have torn am
  860. [15:58:52] +AquaVanillla: ice beam also helps opposing chomps
  861. [15:58:52] #AM: I mean
  862. [15:59:03] #AM: like the last slot we considered for m-diancie and friends
  863. [15:59:07] +memesketch: https://pokepast.es/1132f7bf1f07e797
  864. [15:59:22] +memesketch: yeah so maybe drop torn for something else?
  865. [15:59:25] +AquaVanillla: we get creamed by mega diancie sub
  866. [15:59:43] #AM: this will be m-medi weak too but I think it'll be required to play around
  867. [15:59:47] +memesketch: we also forgot about kyu-b
  868. [15:59:50] #AM: it's a lot to cover with the core right now
  869. [16:00:08] +AquaVanillla: celesteela?
  870. [16:00:10] #AM: tough but good for people to see
  871. [16:00:28] +AquaVanillla: celesteela with leech seed and protect could help us
  872. [16:00:30] #AM: I thought about celesteela early but idk m-medi still kind of ruins out of protect games
  873. [16:00:31] +memesketch: steela doesn't cover kyurem
  874. [16:00:36] #AM: it's definitely an option though
  875. [16:00:37] #AM: because
  876. [16:00:50] #AM: we're lacking good draco resists outside of ttar
  877. [16:00:58] #AM: also that too
  878. [16:01:00] +AquaVanillla: yeah and ttar is easily chipped
  879. [16:01:02] #AM: celesteela doesnt cover kyurem
  880. [16:01:10] +memesketch: we could do some sort of defensive magearna
  881. [16:01:18] +memesketch: to cover kyurem and diancie
  882. [16:01:30] +memesketch: where's melmetal when you need it fr
  883. [16:01:35] +AquaVanillla: faxss
  884. [16:02:14] +Katy: so lets go thru the list of pokemon which might be problematic
  885. [16:02:20] @Ruft: If you're worried about sub Kyurem then rock blast > edge on Tyranitar
  886. [16:02:21] +Katy: kartana is checkd by tang
  887. [16:02:34] +Sensei Axew: we're kinda weak to weavile
  888. [16:02:43] +Katy: lele checked by tar + drill
  889. [16:02:45] +memesketch: both grens sort of, both kyurems, diancie, weavile
  890. [16:02:49] +memesketch: lele
  891. [16:02:53] @Waves: is helmet necessary on both torn and tang?
  892. [16:03:03] #AM: I like rock blast a bit better
  893. [16:03:06] #AM: on ttar
  894. [16:03:13] +AquaVanillla: stone edge also misses :C
  895. [16:03:14] +memesketch: oh no
  896. [16:03:20] +memesketch: it doesn't get rock blast in 7 :(
  897. [16:03:24] #AM: huh?
  898. [16:03:26] +AquaVanillla: what
  899. [16:03:27] #AM: smfh
  900. [16:03:27] +memesketch: edge it is
  901. [16:03:30] +Katy: rock slide tho
  902. [16:03:33] #AM: sad ruft
  903. [16:03:39] +AquaVanillla: bruh
  904. [16:03:40] +memesketch: oh yeah rock slide
  905. [16:03:40] @quziel: I wonder about washtom over pex and then AV tang?
  906. [16:03:46] @quziel: iffy vs mmedi though
  907. [16:03:47] @Ruft: o
  908. [16:03:49] @Ruft: lol
  909. [16:03:49] +memesketch: i agree with that, edge can lose to zapdos
  910. [16:03:50] @Ruft: mb
  911. [16:03:50] #AM: yeah speaking of rotom-w a pain
  912. [16:04:04] #AM: [16:03:56] Thinkerino: Heatran kind of looks like a potential nuisance
  913. [16:04:05] #AM: I mean
  914. [16:04:10] #AM: with ttar and garchomp
  915. [16:04:13] #AM: probably not so much
  916. [16:04:16] +AquaVanillla: eh not a problem imo
  917. [16:04:18] #AM: outside of getting in front of defensive cores
  918. [16:04:23] +Sensei Axew: i think rhelm tang is way too good of a glue here
  919. [16:04:26] +t04ster: not an issue at all
  920. [16:04:29] +Sensei Axew: to be substituted out
  921. [16:04:58] #MrAldo: Doesnt get much better with ttar and chomp, there are z-moves yes but gotta play it out
  922. [16:05:04] +memesketch: idk if kyu-b should be considered to build for
  923. [16:05:06] #AM: can we just keep tang, go torn, and maybe consider gasto for rain matchup, spdef able to check m-diancie?
  924. [16:05:19] #AM: not sure
  925. [16:05:19] +memesketch: since you can't really prep for icium kyub to begin with
  926. [16:05:23] #AM: thoughts?
  927. [16:05:27] +Sensei Axew: i was thinking gastro
  928. [16:05:27] #MrAldo: given the amount needed to cover magearna covers it looks like an option tbh
  929. [16:05:29] +Sensei Axew: over pex as well
  930. [16:05:32] +AquaVanillla: cant we just add clef for weavile and kyub?
  931. [16:05:36] +Sensei Axew: helps vs weavile too
  932. [16:05:37] +Sensei Axew: right
  933. [16:05:37] +memesketch: gastro over pex means weavile is a major pain
  934. [16:05:46] +memesketch: unless physdef gastro
  935. [16:05:49] +Sensei Axew: doesnt phys def gastro chew for days
  936. [16:06:09] +Sensei Axew: better than spdef pex at least
  937. [16:06:15] +memesketch: 252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 205-243 (48.1 - 57%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO
  938. [16:06:15] @quziel: part of me also wonders about cele/clef/tang as the defensive core
  939. [16:06:17] +memesketch: that's a lot
  940. [16:06:22] +Sensei Axew: yea
  941. [16:06:43] +memesketch: dropping pex makes us kind of mage weak
  942. [16:06:52] +memesketch: but i'm willing to take that risk considering drill
  943. [16:07:07] +memesketch: and chomp which probably kills through shuca with some chip in sand
  944. [16:07:27] #AM: okay so let's finalize some things still need to test games
  945. [16:07:35] #AM: only so much paper building can be done
  946. [16:08:05] +Katy: I think the issue is; we cannot cover up literally everything
  947. [16:08:14] #AM: I think we'll have to sort of accept some of the flaws and minimize them where we can.
  948. [16:08:17] +Katy: so we have to play around or either agressive
  949. [16:08:22] +memesketch: i like quziel's idea
  950. [16:08:22] #AM: since 3 cores are always harder to build around than two
  951. [16:08:29] +memesketch: about clef/steela/tang
  952. [16:08:29] +AquaVanillla: i feel like rocks clef could help us here, it can give us more options with ttar and it can help with weavile and kyub.
  953. [16:09:00] +memesketch: i think we're better off keeping chople tar
  954. [16:09:05] +memesketch: unless we run steela
  955. [16:09:37] @quziel: https://pokepast.es/b91c42a66f7392a0
  956. [16:09:40] @quziel: part of me wonders this?
  957. [16:09:59] @quziel: bit iffy vs mcham, but like, its not unworkable by any means, main issue is just that its
  958. [16:10:00] @quziel: slow
  959. [16:10:18] +memesketch: i would say lefties on clef to help with medi
  960. [16:10:54] #AM: so
  961. [16:11:06] +Katy: i like the idea from quziel
  962. [16:11:13] +Katy: its not bad at all
  963. [16:11:14] +AquaVanillla: im a bit worried abt zard y
  964. [16:11:16] @quziel: ig it could be serp last
  965. [16:11:44] +memesketch: since we have 2 grounds maybe we could do celepex
  966. [16:11:52] +memesketch: and pex could run a mixed spread to deal with weavile
  967. [16:11:55] +AquaVanillla: but like Katy said we cant cover everything
  968. [16:11:57] +memesketch: then we could go clef
  969. [16:12:12] +Katy: ya gen7 is impossible to cover everything
  970. [16:12:31] +AquaVanillla: yeah
  971. [16:12:32] +Katy: unless u have a checklist and build a team from scratch on according to the exact checklist
  972. [16:12:34] +memesketch: i think our current regen core leaves too many holes tho so something in between is better
  973. [16:12:39] +Katy: this my experience about gen7 building
  974. [16:13:03] +memesketch: katy yeah but the thing is if you cover everything on a checklist you'll just end up building stall
  975. [16:13:04] #AM: let's go ahead and try to finalize something and then try some test games
  976. [16:13:10] +memesketch: then you probably still lose to something
  977. [16:14:08] +memesketch: yeah
  978. [16:14:12] #AM: okay so
  979. [16:14:14] +memesketch: so right now there's two versions of the team
  980. [16:14:19] +Katy: imma do some test games on the ladder if you ghost me
  981. [16:14:20] #AM: I am fine with
  982. [16:14:21] +memesketch: https://pokepast.es/7e0241a61de849d4
  983. [16:14:23] #AM: having two versions
  984. [16:14:23] +Katy: with the tar chomp team
  985. [16:14:24] +memesketch: https://pokepast.es/b91c42a66f7392a0
  986. [16:14:34] #AM: so let's finalize the two versions
  987. [16:15:05] +MajesticM: I like the one with cele
  988. [16:15:10] #AM: me to
  989. [16:15:21] +AquaVanillla: same
  990. [16:15:24] +Katy: 50/50 here
  991. [16:15:33] +Katy: leaning a bit more to celesteela version
  992. [16:15:38] +MajesticM: I'm gonna go ladder with the m diancie if i get some free time today
  993. [16:16:12] +t04ster: yeah i like the celest one
  994. [16:16:24] #AM: okay are we okay with the builds for the mchomp core for the time being. Understandable they have weaknesses but I want to at least have a framework so can we kind of start testing.
  995. [16:16:27] @Waves: is the consensus that the steela team is superior then?
  996. [16:16:37] #AM: I personalyl think the celesteela one is better
  997. [16:16:45] @Waves: yeah it seems unanimous
  998. [16:16:50] +MajesticM: It looks like some sand I've seen before
  999. [16:16:57] #AM: thats fine
  1000. [16:16:57] #AM: lol
  1001. [16:17:06] +MajesticM: That's what I'm saying like
  1002. [16:17:09] +MajesticM: It looks solid
  1003. [16:17:12] #AM: yeah
  1004. [16:17:26] +AquaVanillla: as long as everybody agrees, the team is a goated team. :)
  1005. [16:17:31] #AM: obviously
  1006. [16:17:45] +memesketch: we should ladder with both and see which gets better results
  1007. [16:17:46] #AM: ok let's post the two teams here that we put together
  1008. [16:17:52] +memesketch: steela team looks better and more fun tho
  1009. [16:17:54] #AM: or three
  1010. [16:18:19] #AM: if anyone is willing to ladder with team right now let us know but I do want to wrap things up because we have been getting other questions in pm
  1011. [16:18:25] #AM: and I want to be able to handle those
  1012. [16:18:35] #AM: in chat preferably
  1013. [16:18:52] @Ruft: https://pokepast.es/716b4deec8c4d90f This was the 1st one
  1014. [16:19:21] #AM: second is cele one
  1015. [16:19:23] #AM: got it
  1016. [16:19:46] #AM: okay so for now are we about done?
  1017. [16:19:54] #AM: lets assume workshop is extended for test games
  1018. [16:20:04] #AM: and we can continue discussing here
  1019. [16:20:46] #AM: whoops
  1020. [16:22:17] Baloor: baloor
  1021. [16:22:22] #AM: hi
  1022. [16:22:30] @Waves: good work everyone c:
  1023. [16:22:40] +AquaVanillla: this was fun :)
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