Nixon and Aides Genesis of the Plumbers July 1 '71 1028-1149

In the wake of the Supreme Court ruling allowing the publication of the Pentagon Papers, Nixon outlines the problem to his aides: a vast conspiracy within the bureaucracy against them. The problem is not the Pentagon Papers, which do damage to the Johnson and Kennedy administrations, but the fact that potential leakers exist in the government, who may well undermine Nixon. They must be fought by any means. "Who's going to break into the Brookings Institute?" Nixon asks. There are three levels to their anti-leak operation. A senator wanting to make his bones by attacking leakers. "We want somebody to be a McCarthy. Is there a senator?" asks Nixon. They need to present themselves as rebels under attack from the permanent establishment, the Eastern Establishment. "And the most anti-establishment guy there is, the guy from the Oval Office," says Haldeman. Finally, they need someone who will get the information for them to use against leakers, and for this, Colson proposes a name. "He's spent twenty years in the CIA, overthrowing governments." Nixon: "What's his name?" His name is Howard Hunt, the man who would go on to lead the Watergate break-in team.

Audio files for this conversation are the following:
http://nixontapeaudio.org/chron1/rmn_e534b.mp3
http://nixontapeaudio.org/chron1/rmn_e534c.mp3

Segments can be found at the following time points in the files:

Segment 1: rmn_e534a (1:47:06-2:00:43)
Segment 2: rmn_e534b (4:09-5:59)
Segment 3: rmn_e534b (13:37-30:37)
Segment 4: rmn_e534b (46:19-48:46)
Segment 5: rmn_e534b (49:39-51:28)
Segment 6: rmn_e534b (57:37-1:03:18)

Majority of transcript is by Stanley Kutler, from Abuse of Power. Additional material, edits, and corrections are by the uploader.

Clip of conversation accompanied by transcript is on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25qnJaUd6J8

JULY 1, 1971: THE PRESIDENT, HALDEMAN, COLSON, AND EHRLICHMAN, 10:28-11:49 A.M., OVAL OFFICE

SEGMENT ONE

HALDEMAN: The other thing...John [Ehrlichman] has put together, is, what he thought oughta be in the statement. And that's [Pat] Buchanan working on putting just a quick look at it, and I think we oughta see what he has in mind. Because maybe there is some argument for it. I sure don't see it at this point.

COLSON: As I told you last night, Mr. President, I think it's better to wait till you have a forum that-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Well, the forum we can produce...

HALDEMAN: Absolutely, you're right.

PRESIDENT NIXON: We can produce the forum tomorrow night. Any time I want, I can go on television-

HALDEMAN: -you produce the forum, just by sitting in your chair, and putting a camera in front.

COLSON: I don't have the feeling that it's the right time.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Whether it's the right time to say something about these papers. That's the real question. It's the time. Forget the forum. That's the- Whenever anybody argues the forum, when somebody's dodging the issue, say, I wouldn't do it now, or this place. The question is: should we do it? My own view is, we should not do it. Because I think there are...just as well...I don't feel that I...if there were any way I could do it without sounding like...defensive about our answer...I want an answer to the question. I want to explain to the American people. We're really not repressing the press. I'm sure that's exactly the way Ehrlichman put it. (inaudible) Mitchell- Remember-

HALDEMAN: That's Mitchell's concern I agree on...I'd love to get a look at Buchanan's.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Buchanan's?

HALDEMAN: That's why I'd like to see his draft.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Get me that...Oh, I see. You know, I'd like to have a recommendation on the clock for Dave. You can probably find some guy that just fits...Well, it must be a man. It must be a man. I call it- Tom [Huston]- Anybody but me. I'm going to run this thing. We've got to have this done.

HALDEMAN: ...One thing we came up with, John and I talking about. It really seems to me to be the way we should do that. So, we have a practical means, that's to get a congressman. And you got a couple of possibilities. You got, three new congressmen. One of which, might be the right guy. One is [Congressman James] McKevitt, the new guy from Denver, who's a former District Attorney, freshman congressman, very sharp. Tough. Feisty. Young guy. Another is Rousselot [Congressman John Rousselot, R-CA], who-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Nonononono. We can't go that far...use Rousselot, but I'm not going to have Rousselot have direct contact with me.

HALDEMAN: No congressman on this should have a direct contact with you.

PRESIDENT NIXON: What I need—I want a man in this White House staff who's full time on the two things. Why don't we just get [Tom Charles] Huston because I can't think of anybody else?

HALDEMAN: Oh, we probably can.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Is he adequate for it?

HALDEMAN: I don't know.

PRESIDENT NIXON: That's the problem. I need a man...I know you can. You can do it but you're only part time. Ehrlichman is half time. Colson is half time. Everybody else. I need one man...directly responsible to me that can run this. I know how to—this has got to be one that's fought in the newspapers and in the paid television. The difficulty is that all the good lawyers around here—Dick Moore, John Ehrlichman, and, of course, Mitchell even more so—they're always saying, well, we've got to win the court case. Screw the court case. We're through with this sort of court case. As far as I— I don't want that fellow Ellsberg to be brought up until after the election. I mean, just let—convict the son of a bitch in the press. That's the way it's done. Can't emphasize that too much. Nobody ever reads any of this in my biographies. Go back and read the chapter on the Hiss case in Six Crises and you'll see how it was done. It wasn't done waiting for the Goddamn courts or the attorney general or the FBI, all the way to Truman himself. That's the way it's done. We have got to get going here.

HALDEMAN: If we get the right guy, in the hot seat he can work with his immunity, and-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Right. I agree.

HALDEMAN: -say things. It's definitely a moot position and all that. Don't you have a better chance of getting it done? If you get a creep like Huston in the woodwork or any other creep that we'd get in the woodwork here, what can he do? He can't do what you did in the Hiss case. He can't move it to the papers.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I know. I'm not even talking about moving it. Colson can move it to the papers. That doesn't bother me a bit.

HALDEMAN: Not very well.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Here's what I'm concerned about. Or he can move it to a congressman. The difficulty that I'm seeing right now is getting the facts to move to the papers. That has to be done by a man directed, and how do you get the facts. Who's going to break into the Brookings Institute? Who's going to go out, for example, and pull all this—the strength of this conspiracy to get this? I mean, Laird's got lots—he said there's a conspiracy. Huston's got some stuff. Who is pulling that together in one place, not with one of these Goddamn things that will come up six months from now? Who, for example, is going to be in charge of looking over the Pentagon Papers—not Pentagon Papers—but the papers on the Cuban missile crisis, on the Bay of Pigs, on World War II, and Korea? Who the hell is doing that and pulling out everything that might embarrass members of the establishment. You see? Who's going to do that. That can't be done by John Rousselot. That's got to be done by—that's what I mean, Bob. I need a man—a commander—an officer in charge here at the White House that I can call when I wake up, as I did last night, at 2:00 o'clock in the morning and I can say I want to do this, this, this and this. Get going. See my point? And a guy, also, who will have the initiative to go out and do a few of these things. Now, we don't have the set-up at the present time. You've got—in this place—you've got at least ten magnificent soldiers and no captain. Everybody has an idea that they can send me in manual memoranda, this and that. There's no captain of them on this source. Somebody has got to pull this together. John can't do it. John Ehrlichman can't. He's got too much to do. Do you know what I mean? He's got to go back and we've decide whether we're going to pollute Lake Erie...or some damn thing, or what we're going to do about the educators, what we're going to do about health, all of which are important. But, you see, for better or worse, he could do it if he didn't have anything else to do. But I need somebody that's capable as Ehrlichman or Colson, for that matter, who'll time will recognize that this is his job. You see, that's what we need. But all of us can put in our little ideas. You need a guy in the Congress. I agree. Rousselot will be fine. He's mean, tough, ruthless. He'll lie, do anything. That's what you need.

HALDEMAN: The other guy might be McKevitt, if he will do all those things.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I'm not sure McKevitt is conservative enough. He's been a prosecutor. The question is, is he conservative?

HALDEMAN: That's the advantage of Johnnie [Rousselot]. You know he's conservative.

PRESIDENT NIXON: He's a [John] Bircher.

COLSON: Conservative.

PRESIDENT NIXON: How about that fellow [Congressman Philip] Crane [R-IL]? Can he do it? No. He's a talker.

HALDEMAN: I think Crane is too much a conservative himself...

PRESIDENT NIXON: Philosopher.

COLSON: Philosopher. He's not a doer. What about [Congressman John] Ashbrook [R-OH]? Is Ashbrook—

PRESIDENT NIXON: No. He's not reliable.

HALDEMAN: We can't trust Ashbrook. You can trust Rousselot.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Mainly, because he wants to get ahead. Well, you can use both Rousselot and the other for that matter. But you see, you got lots of games to play here. Rousselot...I think the guy from Denver would be more credible when he gets up on the floor and makes a speech.

HALDEMAN: No question.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Rousselot immediately gets hot.

HALDEMAN: Can't really worry about that. If the guy is saying sensational enough stuff, it's trying to get stirred up in the papers. You're in the old McCarthyism business.

PRESIDENT NIXON: That's right. We want somebody to be a McCarthy. Is there a senator?

UNIDENTIFIED: ...There's no one.

PRESIDENT NIXON: [Bob] Dole could have done it if he were still there. Is there another Dole?

COLSON: [Congressman William] Brock [R-TN] might come closest.

PRESIDENT NIXON: No. Brock is not a nut cutter.

HALDEMAN: I don't think- Likelihood of a senator doing it, seems to me, not very much compared to a congressman. A congressman has such a great opportunity with this.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Yeah. That's right. Bob is right.

HALDEMAN: You take a pipsqueak like McKevitt or Rousselot that nobody has ever heard of, you can make—sonofabitch could make himself a Senator overnight.

PRESIDENT NIXON: ...Well, coming back to the point, though, especially (unintelligible), I said—I said to you, Bob—I said to Bob a moment ago that at least Colson's prediction about the—last night I asked him on the phone about the progress we've had, about the coverage and so forth. I said, I wonder how Time-Life will play this. And I said I wanted to give the Kennedy private notes so they have to. You were right. They really gave it a hell of a background. The networks—

HALDEMAN: That's going to wait till tonight. They'll pick it up from the papers.

COLSON: And of course the-

HALDEMAN: The networks don't have the stuff, theoretically. So they-

PRESIDENT NIXON: That's really really juicy stuff to them.

COLSON: It sure is. That's not a one-day story. That's a continuing thing. That's—

PRESIDENT NIXON: Diem? Thieu? The shooting- People are underestimating it. The murder of Diem, Kennedy decided to go forward, got us involved-

HALDEMAN: They ran the pictures of Madame Nhu and all that stuff-

COLSON: That was great.

PRESIDENT NIXON: And it showed that it was Kennedy who was the one who got us into the bad war. We've got the Kennedys in this thing now. Now let Teddy come in and say his brother's being maligned.

COLSON: He won't.

HALDEMAN: He won't.

COLSON: He's going to stay just where he is.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Well, his brother got us into it. He probably snuffed out the flame. Because he bumped into it.

COLSON: (laughs)

HALDEMAN: (laughs)

PRESIDENT NIXON: Well, anyway I come back to the proposition that I need—do you see what I mean? I need an officer in charge and I guess I don't what—I just want—it's actually—it could be you. It could be Colson. It could be Ehrlichman. You're the only ones in the White House staff that have the—

HALDEMAN: It could be Dick Allen.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Yes. Allen could be in it. I'm just not sure—we just don't need more for this, if Allen is willing to play, willing to do it. But another thing, it's got to be a guy, Bob—that's the other problem, that is totally trustworthy, because I've got to talk to him very frankly about things that we want to do and I don't want him to make a record and go out and blab it later, well, the President ordered—do you know what I mean?

HALDEMAN: Well, that's why Huston is awful good, too.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I think Huston would die before he'd rat on us.

HALDEMAN: And Huston knows more than anybody we've got around about where stuff is. And what there is.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Can he get the others to get the work done? Well, he can use other help to do it.

HALDEMAN: That's the problem with Huston is—

PRESIDENT NIXON: Well, [the FBI, the CIA?] won't talk to him, probably Defense won't talk to him. There's your problem. Will they talk to Allen?

HALDEMAN: I'm not so sure.

COLSON: He would know how to get it done.

HALDEMAN: You could force it. They don't have to talk to him. If Huston—can't they do it in my name or Ehrlichman's name or Colson's name, something like that?

PRESIDENT NIXON: What I'd really like, basically, is Allen and Huston together. I'd really like the two of them to come in and then, if they would work together, and say all right. Let's get to work here and let the two connive and screw around and just knock their brains out. But you get my point?

PRESIDENT NIXON: Getting back, though, Bob, I want you to sit in with us on...I just have very great misgivings about going out now, and talking about these damn papers. I'm not...I just don't think it's...the leadership et cetera. I understand all that.

HALDEMAN: I'm just not sure the country really cares.

COLSON: Not on the issue of the administration and the press. That I don't think they care about.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Yep.

HALDEMAN: The papers are all going to be running...

PRESIDENT NIXON: Yeah. How long is the series going to be, Bob?

HALDEMAN: Well, they've got four or five articles, and all the newspapers have got...start from the beginning and...

COLSON: Well, then you've got all the interpretive stuff.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Has anybody talked to see when Johnson, if at all, is going to say anything?

COLSON: He told Bill White [reporter and friend of LBJ] that as soon as the Supreme Court made its decision, he would speak out.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Why don't you call White, and see what it has to do with our plan. It's very much in our interest for Johnson to talk.

COLSON: Oh, sure is.

SEGMENT TWO

COLSON: The point is that they did not hold that the government did the wrong thing, or doesn't have the right to do this, they simply held that there's a heavier burden than there normally is.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Because of the stopping of printing.

COLSON: Right.

HALDEMAN: Prior restraint.

PRESIDENT NIXON: You got the one I had that I gave last night to the New York Times, that they have now said a newspaper can now print anything, as long as it does not do irreparable damage. It cannot be enjoined. Now the question is: does a newspaper have any responsbility? Is this standard, to be, we'll print anything unless it does irreparable damage. Or, shall the standard be: we will only print news that's fit to print. And it's a very important point, and this puts, God, geez, it puts them on the spot.

COLSON: Sure as hell does.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Because they can get on their high minded horses and say we have to be fair and all that. So, is irreparable damage...get this point down. Is irreparable damage the standard that the American press is proudly to hold up over every nation of the world? Is that it, irreparable damage? We'll print anything, unless it does irreparable damage. Damage, damage to the nation. Understand? Unless it does irreparable damage to the nation. We'll print something. But the converse is, we will print something if it does damage to the nation...but we will not print something if we are convinced it will do irreparable damage to the nation. See? That's a hell of a thing. That's the point. You're putting on the press, the idea that they are not interested in anything but their own circulation.

SEGMENT THREE

EHRLICHMAN: There's a question on how deep Laird should go in this de-classification of the forty seven volumes [of the Pentagon Papers].

PRESIDENT NIXON: Yeah.

EHRLICHMAN: He's assuming, that he should hold back, roughly twenty five percent. Now, we have a basic list that we submitted to the court, it's a good list, a hardcore list, and that's four volumes, plus any additional documents, a little over ten percent.

HALDEMAN: Now, this is about what Laird was talking about last night, and he was objecting that it oughta be just the other way.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Hold back ninety percent. Yeah. Go ahead.

EHRLICHMAN: Well...Laird was talking something else this morning...

PRESIDENT NIXON: I know. I told him I want to sleep on it. You weren't at any meetings. I told him that thing you were talking about last night, Bob. We had these meetings, Laird briefed us on. Now, let's talk about this a moment. Is this a good time?

EHRLICHMAN: Fine, fine.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Good. Laird and Mitchell both make the point, which I think is a good one, first, the volume that's written...they say, well, look, the documents are going to come out anyway. Second, we don't want to be repressive...they keep coming back: repressiverepressiverepressive. And so, now that the court has ruled, now that the documents are already compromised, we will declassify these documents and give them to our friends. As well as our enemies. Now, the danger of that...the fatal flaw...the danger is that any time your classification system is compromised by thievery, and, by publication, which does not do irreparable damage...I just said a moment ago, John, that we have a press on a very, very bad wicket here. When the lawyer for the Washington Post, said [was asked], suppose the disclosure of these documents might jeopardize the prisoner of war thing, he said [answered], that's the price of the first amendment. There's another question, we should be asked, suppose the exposure of these documents risks the lives of American men because our infiltration is compromised; that's the price of the first amendment. Get that? In other words, our people should knock that out. That the press now is putting their right to make money, to profit, to profit from publication of stolen documents...that they have a constitutional right to profit—take this very carefully—from the publication of stolen documents under the First Amendment and that that overrides the right of an American who fights for his country to live. Now, that's the kind of stuff, John, you've got to get into some of this material. Hit it and keep hitting and ream them and [send] letters to [the] editor embarrassing, you know, send dirty letters, poison pen and so forth. I know how this game is played. And that's exactly what they're trying to say, what the Post is saying here: "We don't care. We don't care. We don't care whether it jeopardizes-" Now, John, just set this up, because we do have some announcements later to make this month. Maybe give them out on something else we can point out. This couldn't happen if we had that little shop.

Get these classifications, on fellows with unauthorized disclosure. Fellows like, that fellow Richardson insists on keeping, this Cook. Now, hear what he did. Everything was perfectly legal. He was against the war. That was perfectly legal. He was trying to get a story out which would hurt us, on a ceasefire, the one that (unintelligible), that's perfectly legal. He leaked to the press. That's perfectly legal. In terms of Chau. The Chau case. When we were very, very- I had a frightened communication with Bunker. I said, "Bunker, get Thieu to do your very best to cool this thing." (unintelligible) state department. He took those secret cables, took them to Ellsberg, who had Q clearance, because he worked for the Rand corporation, perfectly legal, now get those Goddamn things cut off, today! Now you remember that, don't cha. The Rand corporation-

HALDEMAN: Haig, Haig-

PRESIDENT NIXON: I told him. The Rand corpoation- Every outside group that has Q clearance has got to have it cut off, John. We cannot have- Brookings has got tons of documents in safes over there. I want them out! We have got to start protecting the security of this government. Brookings and Rand, now Goddamnit, Haig hasn't done this—because Henry welshed on these, you know. He's a little afraid. He's got some friends at Brookings, that guy, and he says, well- But anyway, he said publicly—he told me he was for it. But he's dragging his feet or some thing. You've got to get this stuff from Rand and Brookings. John, you mop up. You're in charge of that. And I want it done today and I'd like a report— It's come to this. If the press did that, it's basically the declassification system, is destroyed, then you could (unintelligible). The other side of this, is to have Laird put out the documents, on the ground, well, since, some papers already have them, we're simply releasing the documents, in this instance to other papers. That are in the public domain. The difficulty with that is, it doesn't have declassifying. You tell me what you want-

EHRLICHMAN: Well- In the first place, there's a hardcore list of documents you never give out.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I agree with that.

EHRLICHMAN: Secondly, it seems to me very reactive...and weak, to accelerate the declassification, so that the week after the Supreme Court decides...

PRESIDENT NIXON: [unintelligible]

HALDEMAN: -to accelerate declassification. He's talking about immediate release, while it's still classified.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Oh my. Oh no. That's right. Bob is- On the grounds that, they're going to be printed anyway. Where I don't think the government should join the New York Times in complying with the Supreme Court-

HALDEMAN: The government...just look at the cost thing. There's three thousand newspapers...are we going to print three thousand copies of the Goddamn papers? It'll cost a million dollars...

EHRLICHMAN: The point that we've got...we're going to make the system perform. Or: [unintelligible].

HALDEMAN: -also announced that he's going to give every member of Congress a copy of the-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Oh, Jesus Christ, where are they going to put them-

HALDEMAN: -reproducing five hundred copies-

COLSON: But that isn't declassification, that's a little different.

HALDEMAN: I know. That's not declassification, but it's a hell of a [unintelligible]

EHRLICHMAN: Why would he do that?

HALDEMAN: Because he said he would. Apparently, it would be a good guide on the Hill.

PRESIDENT NIXON: What he should do...tell him to change that by saying because of the physical costs, the physical problems, he will put them up in the Congress, so any congressman can come, to the-

HALDEMAN: They did last week.

PRESIDENT NIXON: That's the way it's going to be. Copies, that's just got to go. [to attendant] Some more coffee, thank you. [back to aides] You see, what he can do is, make a couple of sets, so congressmen don't have to line up, say I'm going to put four more sets, but I'm not going to have these all over the Congress this morning. I'm going to put four more sets in the room, and you can all come and look at it. So, come at- That way, it saves us face. Physically, it's too much of a problem...for a personal congressman, you've got forty seven trunks.

EHRLICHMAN: No, it's a box.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Forty seven...where the hell's he going to put them? Even [unintelligible] his office?

EHRLICHMAN: Nono...see a volume is only, you know, that thick. It seems to me, very basic, that forty five days from now, what appears to be declassified, is relatively innocuous. It amounts to just about what has been published off the surface. I understand, from John Dean, that the newspapers have stipulated, apparently this is not known, they have stipulated that they will not print, a number of these things.

HALDEMAN: John Mitchell made it last night.

EHRLICHMAN: And, uh, this was alluded to on that television show last night.

PRESIDENT NIXON: You see, Mitchell is a stupid ass, to allow that. You understand why?

HALDEMAN: Lets them off the hook.

PRESIDENT NIXON: For sure! You don't let those sonsofbitches look good. Damn, that burns me up. That burns me up.

EHRLICHMAN: There is this, January 15th NSSM declassification grouping-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Yeah, but that's not a problem.

EHRLICHMAN: Alright. But they're studying the problem. And they're about two weeks away from coming to any kind of conclusions.

PRESIDENT NIXON: They can take three months.

EHRLICHMAN: Well. That's a question. We can be embarrassed by, their coming in with a bunch of conclusions-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Well, I want them to get, in view of this case, I want them to get to look at it much deeper. I want them to give recommendations with regard to what can be done about World War II. What can be done about Korea...

HALDEMAN: Exactly.

PRESIDENT NIXON: What can be done about, and incidentally, I don't think the Cuban confrontation...and remember Bob, I told Dick Wednesday? This Goddamn thing hasn't come in here yet. Now where is the Cuban confrontation material? The Kennedy library has got it. Where is Pearl Harbor? Hyde Park has got it. Now, it's just ridiculous, John. And these are the things that will embarrass the creeps. Put it out.

EHRLICHMAN: Here's my suggestion, what to do with this group. It seems to me, if you led with that, and gave them this additional charge-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Yeah. Alright.

EHRLICHMAN: You've got on there an assistant attorney general, some assistant secretaries, and what not- Gave them this additional charge-

PRESIDENT NIXON: But without publicity.

EHRLICHMAN: No publicity, and no content-

PRESIDENT NIXON: -no publicity too. I want a meeting about the publicity too. I want a meeting with them-

EHRLICHMAN: Well, do you want it known that you met with them? And the reason I think that might lead to-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Alright. No pictures.

EHRLICHMAN: No pictures, just the fact on your schedule that you're meeting with the NSSM January 15...

PRESIDENT NIXON: ...group of January 15.

EHRLICHMAN: See, that ties its way back to January 15, and it takes you out of this whole moil and toil, of this context.

PRESIDENT NIXON: You see, John, I want to give them a hell of a lot more time. Because, when you get them in...that's when, this afternoon?

EHRLICHMAN: Sure. The sooner the better, as far as I'm concerned.

PRESIDENT NIXON: And then, the guy never did- The July 3rd thing. When that's going to be done?

COLSON: You don't think it's going to look reactive, the day after the court decision?

EHRLICHMAN: Well, I don't...

PRESIDENT NIXON: Bob, first of all it's a blip. It's not going to get that much publicity, editorially. But it makes the record appear to continue with...by the facts...

EHRLICHMAN: You are the guy, who would get in aggressively, and under color of title, to exploit this stuff. Now my suggestion-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Let me be sure that...let me give you more of what we've gotta do. And I want all three of you [Colson, Ehrlichman, Haldeman], to go to Six Crises, and read the Hiss case. Read the chapter again, and read it very carefully. Also...read the speech I made on this case in the House of Representatives. You will find, the case was won before it ever came here, before it ever came to the courts, because I won it in the press. The reason it had to be won that way, is because Truman, Tom Clark [Attorney General], Alex Campbell, the Assistant Attorney General of the prosecution, and J. Edgar Hoover, pretty likely, said, they would not help me. And I had to do it all myself. And let me tell you: when they were [unintelligible]...I found a little vignette, they played the news for me, they leaked something, and it appeared in a column, Scripps-Howard column, when the Justice Department was ready to drop the case...that story was leaked by the Justice Department the day after Chambers had turned over the Pumpkin Papers to the grand jury...and they leaked that, because they were terrified by that thing. They didn't know Chambers would tell me...now, my point, what we're up here is an enemy worse than the communists. Because they were few. We are up against people like this Cooke. Now this Cooke did all these things, and what is Elliot, Elliot is all, we've gotta defend him. Because he's a good guy, his father was an admiral, well, he went to Harvard. That's very nice. Now, let me tell you about him.

The sonofabitch is against us. He's against us in the war, he was for the ceasefire. He was with Chau. Did Ellsberg need to know this? Why did he take secret cables, from Bunker on this case, and show them to Ellsberg? Who is no longer with the government. With Rand. Sure, Rand's got a clearance. But did he need to show them? You know why he did it. He did it in order that Ellsberg, and this fellow Cooke is part of the conspiracy within this...so Ellsberg could then go around and do some [unintelligible]. That's why he did it. He had no reason not to know that Ellsberg is a commando where they work at. And Ellsberg did exactly what he predicted. Cook said, "Well, I was surprised when it came out in the Washington Star!" Sure, he was surprised, they're always surprised. And so, you gotta go over there, right now. And tell him, he's the top man. He'll rat on him. I know nobody's going to do it, they're going to keep him, because poor Elliot says "I'm going to keep him." I predict, I predict, this sonofabitch will rat on him on the domestic front. Or the election. That's all there is to it. You've got to start getting tougher on these people. I know them. That's why, Bob, I don't agree with you, when you say...lemme say, he didn't do anything illegal. Not a thing. Nothing illegal. But you oughta let him go because of bad judgement, at least. Bad judgement.

EHRLICHMAN: I think it works. I mean, I think- Going on with this group, this declassification group, they've been working with our staff...but they've got a powerful charge. It occurred to me, if we find the right guy, he oughta become the staff director, that way you can get into the woodwork-

PRESIDENT NIXON: That's a different problem, fine. Get me a staff director...but that ain't the problem I'm talking about. I want that guy to do all the public stuff, which means nothing...what I mean is, I do not want to be restricted, John, by what a group like that...they want to do it all by the book. 	 A week or so from now, a story needs to be leaked on the sonofabtich so that we do it right away. Cooke. And then let Elliot Richardson defend him. Let Elliot defend him if he wants to. We've got to raise our own people up. I've never yet seen a [unintelligible] come in and say, "I've got a bad apple." Kissinger, to his credit, had a hell of a lot of bad apples, but he fired some. Anybody else fire anybody? Some of them had been disloyal? Al?

EHRLICHMAN: Got a few scalps, not much.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Now, go ahead. I agree, that you can get the proper director, but I still need a man, an inside man to do the dirty deeds. You agree, Colson? (end point)

COLSON: Sure thing, sir.

SEGMENT FOUR

PRESIDENT NIXON: The real question is, what is in it for us? For me to go on. Here's the problem, as I see it. If I go on, the positive is, if I go on and explain, now look, this doesn't involve us, it involves the previous administration...we, however, have not been able to enforce the law, we've enforced the law...we are, it is important, ladies and gentlemen, we've got to continue to classify things, because that's the only way we can conduct...thank you very much, good evening. That's going to be a hell of a speech. That's going to be great, they're going to be really reassured of that, now, the other problem that's going to be...the disadvantages of that are, they'll say what the hell, this administration is really involved...why is Nixon trying to cover up, and so forth. Did anything come out of it? But I'm not sure, you pick up the morning papers, for example, and find us...read a story about Kennedy, Diem, and the rest-

HALDEMAN: -the cover-up is all over with, it's now not being covered up, so nobody can argue why you're trying to cover up. They can go back and say why did you try to cover up, but nobody's going to give a damn. Now, they're going to give a damn, now they're going to give a damn about why Kennedy murdered Diem, why Johnson asked for the war-

EHRLICHMAN: With Rusk going on for an hour [Johnson's Secretary of Defense appearing on TV to defend fight against Pentagon Papers publication]...

PRESIDENT NIXON: ...see, that's the other thing, Rusk is going on...

COLSON: [General] Maxwell Taylor is with him.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I'm delighted Rusk is going on. Also you're going to check-

HALDEMAN: -is going on to....[unintelligible] is going on, and he's awful good.

COLSON: He's real good. He did a helluva job...

PRESIDENT NIXON: That's what I want. Talking to the big press.

HALDEMAN: Yeah, it won't get any attention this weekend, that's for sure.

COLSON: Maybe a little bit of Monday's.

EHRLICHMAN: And [unintelligible], [unintelligible] tonight.

HALDEMAN: Won't get any TV.

PRESIDENT NIXON: On the TV side, thank God Rusk is going on. Rogers just might love the opportunity to step up to this thing, if he's got a good speech. Okay, take care of this thing.

EHRLICHMAN: Right. You were saying...[unintelligible]...

HALDEMAN: What has he got?

COLSON: He's got to?

EHRLICHMAN: Laird says.

PRESIDENT NIXON: He ain't going to listen to it.

HALDEMAN: He's got some other documents.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Murder him.

PRESIDENT NIXON: He's got NSC documents.

EHRLICHMAN: That's what I'm saying, and they're moving that out this afternoon. And he wants something from us, so, we're setting them up this morning when they're done, going this afternoon.

SEGMENT FIVE

HALDEMAN: There is a gain on this, the question is whether you gain it by our momentum, or by letting the opposition...the gain is the same thing.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I just don't know. I'm not one to judge it.

COLSON: Well, the gain long term is, of the issue of the Democrats being unable to manage this government. The power elite from Cambridge failing, falling on their ass, and let them fight this issue out. This isn't our battle.

PRESIDENT NIXON: The power elite really has failed.

COLSON: The majordomos of this world are finished. They no longer have this arrogant, infallible superiority that they can govern better anybody else. They're just done. The papers in the New York Times killed them.

HALDEMAN: Well, the Howard Smith one, falls right into what we're trying to do. Building an anti-establishment thing, and that's fine, as long as it's clear, who the establishment is, and it ain't us.

COLSON: Which we don't want to be.

HALDEMAN: And the most anti-establishment guy there is, the guy from the Oval Office.

PRESIDENT NIXON: The anti-establishment thing is, it is building an anti-establishment thing? What's he mean by that?

HALDEMAN: I'm not saying...if it does go to that.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Mmmmhmmm...I fought the establishment all night long...

HALDEMAN: Smith's line is that when you can include the establishment, they won't make the mistake that the establishment is the President.

PRESIDENT NIXON: You see, the only one that ever really beat the establishment, was what I did in the Hiss case. Of course, I beat them on a couple of other things...beating them in the Hiss case, was a deadly blow. They had never been beaten. And they had never been beaten since. McCarthy's sin was not in attacking them, but in not killing them. I attacked them and killed them. And they'll never forgive me for that. Because he was one of theirs. One of theirs.

SEGMENT SIX

PRESIDENT NIXON: Bob, is this important enough to let Ehrlichman-

EHRLICHMAN: No no no...

HALDEMAN: What?

PRESIDENT NIXON: We just can't afford...

HALDEMAN: Take him off?

PRESIDENT NIXON: Is it important enough that we take, maybe Chuck off of everything else and put him on this job? I understand. I can't have anybody do the job unless the performer think it's important enough. It can't be done as if it's in his hip pocket. Because I know this is the sort of thing that is the most murderous killing kind of-

HALDEMAN: You look at the price you pay. If you get somebody...

PRESIDENT NIXON: Who could run the (unintelligible).

HALDEMAN: No. If you get somebody who could put the eighteen hours a day in, and Chuck could put six with it...and the other six hours-

PRESIDENT NIXON: No no, that is the way, I don't want it done in the usual bureaucratic way, where there is some guy, faceless guy that comes in doing this. Living and sleeping with it, that I can call in. Tell him what the cops and robbers games are when this thing is done. Get my point?

PRESIDENT NIXON: Is it possible that the best way to do this is bring Huston in? Put him under Chuck?

HALDEMAN: That's what I was- In a sense, that's what I was saying. Get a guy...

PRESIDENT NIXON: Would that work? I dunno. What do you think, Chuck? Do you understand? This is a- I don't think...how important...this is. How tough this is [unintelligible] get in a battle against the bureaucracy. You see, Laird has got a CIA, I mean a, talent, everybody goes to the FBI, but they don't know what the Goddamn...They'll just go and turn it into...Hoover's very careful not to get too deep involved in this.

COLSON: Is there anything political he-

PRESIDENT NIXON: I think...I can push Hoover a bit and get something on this. But Laird's got a whole intelligence network over there. Laird will play our game, but somebody's got to...

HALDEMAN: See, Huston's ideal, because that's where he's from. Huston's a lieutenant with the DIA.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I know, but therefore, Huston's not going to go tell the general of the DIA what to do.

HALDEMAN: No, but Colson will tell the general that Huston, if Huston briefs Colson on what's to be told.

PRESIDENT NIXON: If Colson is the best for [unintelligible]

HALDEMAN: If you can program Ehrlichman, Colson, me, whoever he needs as a name to get stuff done. Huston can't do the stuff in his own name.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Well, I don't know if Huston has the judgement to program it.

HALDEMAN: Well...what we totally need is someone to plan this great strategy.

COLSON: The only thing I'm worried about with—

PRESIDENT NIXON: WHAT.

COLSON: The only thing I'm worried about with Huston is...

HALDEMAN: He's a little paranoid.

COLSON: He picks the things that look good to him and you can't budge him if something doesn't look good to him and that's tough to get in. There's one guy on the outside that has this capacity and ideological bent who might be able to do all of this.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Who's that?

COLSON: He's a very close friend to [Senator] Jim Buckley's— He's spent twenty years in the CIA, overthrowing governments. He's hard as nails. He's a brilliant writer. He's written 40 books under pseudonyms.

PRESIDENT NIXON: What's his name?

COLSON: He scrambles. His name is Howard Hunt. He's here in Washington now. He just got out of the CIA, fifty. Kind of a tiger. I don't know. You might want to—

HALDEMAN: How old is he?

COLSON: Fifty.

PRESIDENT NIXON: That's all right. He can do it. He may still have the energy.

COLSON: Ideologically, he already is convinced this is a big conspiracy.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I'd like to get Huston in and use him though. I mean, I agree Huston is difficult and this and that. But we'll order the sonofabitch to do what needs to be done. You can order him, can't you?

HALDEMAN: Not very well.

COLSON: Not very easily—

HALDEMAN: Huston—he really is—

PRESIDENT NIXON: Alright.

HALDEMAN: —because he's great on the stuff he wants to be great on.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Arrogant little bastard.

COLSON: Well, he'd take a half an hour telling you why you shouldn't do something. It'd drive you up the wall.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Alright. There must be people like that around we can get, aren't there?

HALDEMAN: Dick Allen is convinced there are and that's why I would like to talk to him—

PRESIDENT NIXON: Do you know what? How about bringing [General] Vernon Walters back?

HALDEMAN: I was just thinking that myself once he mentioned the CIA because he's a spy tech guy...

PRESIDENT NIXON: Let's put him in that job.

HALDEMAN: I'm not sure...I'm not sure Walters knows enough about this...

PRESIDENT NIXON: I'm not sure...he would play this—well, he would play this but I think he might want to—look, I don't want some guy who is going to try and second guess my judgment on this because I know more about it than any of them. I have forgotten more than anything they'll ever learn. This is a game. It's got to be played in the press. That's why Mitchell can't do this. It's impossible for him.

HALDEMAN: It's got to be a guy you can really trust, because it's got to be—

PRESIDENT NIXON: Oh!...Fuck! I can't...

COLSON: This guy, Bob, I think I oughta bring him in, you'll see him, he won't publicize this. He knows the outside business, and the inside.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Well, basically Bob, you and Chuck talk about setting the [unintelligible], and setting the procedure. Now, I don't want a committee to run this. I want one man that's responsible, maybe Chuck. But you do need guys that, and they've got a response, see there are two different jobs. One, there's the declassification job. Maybe the thing that John talks about, putting a guy in charge of that. And it's good. Then there's the work on this conspiracy itself. That's another job.

COLSON: That's the nut cutting.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Yeah. The declassification job is important...

HALDEMAN: -get John Rousselot or somebody-

PRESIDENT NIXON: But the important part about the declassification job is to get the information.