Bobbeldibob - Yesterday at 10:42 PM
I've had the same discussion with kittenz as well btw LUUL
Mixie - Yesterday at 10:46 PM
if psychology was an interest of yours, you'd have a different opinion.
Bobbeldibob - Yesterday at 10:47 PM
nnnope I actually based my arguments on a philosophical construct
I agree on you that, given the same basis on good and bad, you can tell objectively wether overwatch is good or bad
but some might see some arguments as not bad or not as bad and the other way around
Mixie - Yesterday at 10:50 PM
that comes down to how well the argument is constructed and how critical the person you tell it to is about what they take serious or not.
if someone has done something for longer than someone else, and does it better, that persons opinion immediately becomes more credible, especially if that person does not have a financial incentive to go against their principles.
Bobbeldibob - Yesterday at 10:51 PM
there is a saying: "objectively my objectivity is not objective"
Mixie - Yesterday at 10:51 PM
that saying is referring to the problem of semantics
and if you make it into an issue of semantics, then saying that anything is "objective" or "subjective" is erroneous
because as far as relativity is concerned; everything IS or ISN'T. Nothing inbetween.
but for everything else, opinions encompass both objectivity and subjectivity, based on what you say
Bobbeldibob - Yesterday at 10:53 PM
good and bad is a more complex structure than is or isn't tho
Mixie - Yesterday at 10:53 PM
for example, I would take atomicus' opinion on overwatch over seagull's opinion on overwatch
Bobbeldibob - Yesterday at 10:54 PM
on the quality of the game?
Mixie - Yesterday at 10:54 PM
yes
Bobbeldibob - Yesterday at 10:54 PM
but the thing I'm saying is, the defintion of the quality of the game differenciates from person to person
Mixie - Yesterday at 10:55 PM
so does everything, and if you valued every single opinion the same way, then you would never be able to formulate an opinion of your own
because you'd get too much misinformation from all directions
Bobbeldibob - Yesterday at 10:55 PM
the concept of quality defines a collective of characteristics about an object, but this collective isn't the same for every person
that's why you say what a good game is before you say wether something is a good game or not
and that goes with everything
you predefine the space your opinion is pointed at
Mixie - Yesterday at 10:57 PM
yes, because you can assume that everyone comprehends the basic framework of what someone is trying to accomplish with a specific product
like an FPS game
Bobbeldibob - Yesterday at 10:57 PM
I'm not saying you should do that before saying in chat that the game is bad or anything, don't get me wrong LUUL
Mixie - Yesterday at 10:57 PM
example; someone might be attracted to broken noses
but having a broken nose is still objectively bad, because it makes it harder to breathe
and based on the framework on human anatomy
I can say that having a broken nose is bad
and ALSO unattractive
that doesn't make it any less credible
Bobbeldibob - Yesterday at 10:58 PM
it could be objectively good as well, because it means that you are a boxer maybe and you are strong and can survive
Mixie - Yesterday at 10:58 PM
because it's not equivocal
Bobbeldibob - Yesterday at 10:58 PM
and that makes it also attractive again
I actually know someone who likes people with scars for exactly that reason
Mixie - Yesterday at 10:59 PM
it's not objectively good if it doesn't work properly
Bobbeldibob - Yesterday at 10:59 PM
it might look less appealing to you but to others it's a sign of strength
Mixie - Yesterday at 10:59 PM
not within the confines of it's own framework
if breaking your nose gets you a better job
then that makes it objectively good, INDIRECTLY
but it's consequential
Mixie - Yesterday at 11:00 PM
the broken nose, in itself, is still bad
the financial incentive that blizzard have of overwatch, means that they will try to promote it as a good game
Bobbeldibob - Yesterday at 11:00 PM
yes, within that definition, and that's exactly what I wanted to say
Mixie - Yesterday at 11:00 PM
and that goes with people who play it too
Bobbeldibob - Yesterday at 11:00 PM
or framework as you call it
Mixie - Yesterday at 11:00 PM
because some people don't want to admit that they paid money for something bad
that's part of basic human psychology
no one wants to admit they made a bad purchase