Inquiring Minds [HPSN]

[21:47] * emeraldEclipse has joined the memo
[21:48] * jellyfishTraveller joined the memo
[21:49] <emeraldEclipse> Hello
[21:53] <emeraldEclipse> ?
[21:53] <jellyfishTraveller> 3Oh, hi
[21:53] <jellyfishTraveller> Sorry about that, got distracted by something
[21:53] <emeraldEclipse> Thats alright.
[21:54] <emeraldEclipse> I don't suppose you know anything about game-breaking?
[21:57] <jellyfishTraveller> Weelll
[21:57] <jellyfishTraveller> Let me check my notes
[21:57] <jellyfishTraveller> My notes say "death" with a frowny face next to them
[21:58] <jellyfishTraveller> So if you're alive, I think avoiding game-breaking would be a good idea, someone else trying it?
[21:58] <emeraldEclipse> I'm not looking to /actually/ break the game, but
[21:59] <emeraldEclipse> Its hard to get straight answers out of it sometimes, seeing the code would help
[21:59] <jellyfishTraveller> I'm looking at my notes
[22:00] <jellyfishTraveller> And looking at the frowny face
[22:00] <jellyfishTraveller> I think the frowny face is telling us not to do it
[22:00] <emeraldEclipse> Is no one else curious as to how this all works?
[22:02] <jellyfishTraveller> Oh, I'm curious all right, like hell I think figuring out what the fuck is up with this game thing is high on my list
[22:03] <jellyfishTraveller> I just don't know anyone who's lived a long time who has found out lots of stuff from game-breaking
[22:04] <jellyfishTraveller> Curiosity killed the cat, you know?
[22:05] <emeraldEclipse> Very personally, yes. But I'm not going to go into it unaware. Its why I'm asking.
[22:06] * artisticHourglass has connected to memo!
[22:06] <artisticHourglass> Hello!
[22:06] <jellyfishTraveller> Hi there
[22:06] <emeraldEclipse> Hi!
[22:06] <artisticHourglass> How are you guys? : )
[22:07] <emeraldEclipse> Good. I've got a hypothesis I want to test about how the Game generates reality, but it might be a bit difficult to test.
[22:07] <emeraldEclipse> So I'm seeing what I can find out about game breaking and looking at the code through that
[22:08] <jellyfishTraveller> Well yeah, but still, you can go into a bear fight completely aware and get mauled
[22:08] <jellyfishTraveller> Except the game is like
[22:08] <jellyfishTraveller> Laser bears
[22:08] <emeraldEclipse> Or you can watch one and be perfectly safe.
[22:08] <jellyfishTraveller> Pew pew
[22:09] <artisticHourglass> Hoo boy. Gamebreaking.
[22:09] <artisticHourglass> Been a long while since I last saw /that/ come up.
[22:09] <emeraldEclipse> Its hard to test for it otherwise, and I mean
[22:09] <jellyfishTraveller> Wait how do you watch one?
[22:09] <jellyfishTraveller> Don't you have to like
[22:10] <jellyfishTraveller> Touch things to get at the code?
[22:10] <emeraldEclipse> The foodhack is gamebreaking isn't it?
[22:10] <artisticHourglass> It depends on your definition of the word!
[22:10] <artisticHourglass> It's certainly manipulation of variables and constructs that aren't otherwise touched.
[22:13] <emeraldEclipse> Well
[22:13] <emeraldEclipse> My thought process was that gravity isn't exactly...Earth-norm, right?
[22:13] <emeraldEclipse> While in the Game that is
[22:14] <artisticHourglass> This is true.
[22:14] <emeraldEclipse> And Game scripts can take thoughts and concepts from your head. The Nightmare Heir comes to mind as a prime example.
[22:16] <artisticHourglass> Psybuffs are a more benign example of this as well.
[22:16] <emeraldEclipse> Of course.
[22:16] <emeraldEclipse> I'm going to be kind of rambly here, I'm sort of working off a bunch of thoughts that all came together at once.
[22:17] <artisticHourglass> Of course, my apologies for interrupting. Please, continue!
[22:17] <emeraldEclipse> Oh no, you weren't interrupting!
[22:17] <emeraldEclipse> If you're confused about something speak up, an outside opinion always helps
[22:17] <emeraldEclipse> You know how electricity and water and stuff like that works even though most of the time theres no outside source powering it?
[22:18] <emeraldEclipse> It's...hmm
[22:18] <artisticHourglass> I'm afraid you may need to be a touch more specific on the 'And stuff like that' front.
[22:19] <emeraldEclipse> Internet, sewage, stuff in your spire that on Earth would come from an outside source
[22:19] <emeraldEclipse> You enter in your house, the power station doesn't come with you.
[22:19] <artisticHourglass> Ah, yes. That.
[22:20] <emeraldEclipse> Did you ever have a blackout, back before you entered. And you're hand went to the lightswitch when you entered a room, even though you knew once you thought about it, that it shouldn't do anything?
[22:20] <artisticHourglass> Yes.
[22:20] <artisticHourglass> Usually when I was already carrying a candle.
[22:20] <emeraldEclipse> You associate flicking a lightswitch = light on
[22:21] <emeraldEclipse> What if the Game takes those associations from your head when it generates a session? And thats why we continue to have power, water, and everything else that, by all accounts, not work?
[22:22] <emeraldEclipse> should not work*, sorry
[22:22] <jellyfishTraveller> Wow
[22:22] <artisticHourglass> Not a problem.
[22:22] <artisticHourglass> That...Hm.
[22:22] <artisticHourglass> Interesting hypothesis. How do you plan to test it?
[22:23] <emeraldEclipse> Well, I had a couple ideas
[22:23] <emeraldEclipse> Some would involve blind tests, others would be anecdotal but very suggestive
[22:25] <artisticHourglass> There is...Hm.
[22:25] <artisticHourglass> Actually, I think I might be able to pull a few strings and find somebody who might be able to help!
[22:25] <emeraldEclipse> Anyone who came from pre-natives where something that is normally taken for granted doesn't exsist should, by this hypothesis, have no association with that the Game would take from
[22:26] <emeraldEclipse> Oh?
[22:26] <artisticHourglass> There was a woman who was only able to play the game because the computers for it came through on the meteors. No running water, no sewer pipes, nada.
[22:26] <emeraldEclipse> ooooh
[22:26] <artisticHourglass> But she's been exposed to the concepts since, so I don't know if it'll play out as you predict now.
[22:26] <emeraldEclipse> That would be good. But theres the potention for a...I was going to use 'corrupted' but, yeah thats a potential issue
[22:27] <artisticHourglass> GIGO would kick in, yes.
[22:27] <emeraldEclipse> Theres a second, deeper level that we might be able to test on though
[22:27] <artisticHourglass> Oh?
[22:28] <emeraldEclipse> They might understand that lightswitch = light on
[22:28] <emeraldEclipse> But not the underlying principle of electricity
[22:28] <emeraldEclipse> I tested the wires in my spire, they still have a current when they're turned on
[22:28] <artisticHourglass> ...Hm.
[22:28] <emeraldEclipse> But if the Game cut corners and cut out the middleman as it were?
[22:29] <artisticHourglass> We may need to enlist a secondary person there to help test.
[22:29] <emeraldEclipse> Their wires might not, but the light still turns on
[22:29] <emeraldEclipse> Yeah, it'd have to be a blind test
[22:29] <artisticHourglass> Buuuut....That'd be an *excellent* way of checking.
[22:29] <artisticHourglass> Also I mean to ask for a second person because I'm not sure how well the whole 'carefully remove the lightswitch cover' would translate.
[22:29] <emeraldEclipse> Ah, yes
[22:30] <emeraldEclipse> Sorry, getting a little ahead of myself
[22:30] <artisticHourglass> No, no, it's okay!
[22:32] <emeraldEclipse> I had a seperate train of thought that was rather silly, but I want to test this one out myself
[22:32] <emeraldEclipse> Its tangentally related
[22:33] <artisticHourglass> Oh?
[22:33] <emeraldEclipse> I was wondering if theres a hard transition between a height you'll be "falling" from, and one that'll be "You're in orbit"
[22:34] <artisticHourglass> Probably easiest to test that one with careful application of tossing blankets off a flying device
[22:34] <emeraldEclipse> That was my line of thought, yes
[22:35] <emeraldEclipse> Doesn't need to be too scientific, does it
[22:35] <emeraldEclipse> Oh, I never introduced myself. I'm Afiqah, and you are?
[22:35] <artisticHourglass> If we can establish 'Does it work, Y/N' we can refine from there.
[22:35] <artisticHourglass> Violet! A pleasure to meet you, Afiqah.
[22:37] <emeraldEclipse> Oh!
[22:37] <emeraldEclipse> Founder Violet?
[22:37] <artisticHourglass> I am indeed the server lady, yes.
[22:38] <emeraldEclipse> It's even more of a pleasure to meet you as well then!
[22:38] <artisticHourglass> Aha, you flatter me!
[22:39] <emeraldEclipse> [Why do you seem to ramble on about your ideas to Founders of all people?]
[22:39] <artisticHourglass> If anything, I'm the one who should be happiest about this meeting. You're incredibly insightful!
[22:39] <emeraldEclipse> Well theres a lot to try and understand!
[22:40] <emeraldEclipse> The whole rulebook got thrown out after all, might as well try and understand the new rules, right?
[22:40] <artisticHourglass> A lot of people sadly don't seem to appreciate developing an understanding 'the mundane mysteries', as it were.
[22:41] <emeraldEclipse> Understanding is another step on the road to improving things. I was going to say the first step, but I think thats questioning
[22:41] <artisticHourglass> The first step is recognising there's a difference in how the two work, I think.
[22:41] <emeraldEclipse> And I'm not all about mundane mysteries, my big project is anything but
[22:42] <artisticHourglass> Oh?
[22:42] <emeraldEclipse> I'm trying to find and study the Green Star. Ross has been helping me a lot with it in fact.
[22:42] <artisticHourglass> Ross as in Founder Ross?
[22:43] <emeraldEclipse> Yes!
[22:43] <artisticHourglass> Goodness!
[22:43] <emeraldEclipse> As well as some others, but I don't think you'd know them as well as Ross. :)
[22:43] <artisticHourglass> I wish he'd said something, that sounds fascinating. : )
[22:43] <artisticHourglass> Tell me more about the Green Star? I've heard snippets of rumours.
[22:44] <artisticHourglass> A lot of people seem to think it's the same thing as the Green Moon.
[22:44] <emeraldEclipse> I don't have anything to show for it yet beyond a hard drive full of pictures of Others, but I'm still hopeful
[22:44] <artisticHourglass> Eugh.
[22:44] <emeraldEclipse> Yeah
[22:44] <artisticHourglass> Best to delete those, really.
[22:44] <artisticHourglass> Brings *nothing* but trouble.
[22:44] <emeraldEclipse> I understand that now, believe me
[22:45] <artisticHourglass> Oh goodness. Are you alright?
[22:45] <emeraldEclipse> But I need to check and see which ones are false positives
[22:45] <artisticHourglass> Hm.
[22:45] <emeraldEclipse> I am now, yes.
[22:45] <artisticHourglass> I know Prototype Towers has fairly extensive corruption filters in place. Would those help, do you think?
[22:46] <artisticHourglass> I'm sure I can get something similar to those for you if you want them.
[22:46] <emeraldEclipse> Maybe. I've got my own system in place now though, and I don't want to miss it because of an over-zealous filter
[22:47] <artisticHourglass> That's fair enough! But the offer stands should you ever want it
[22:47] <emeraldEclipse> I'm only checking the images for short periods twice a day and it automatically locks me out after that period of time.
[22:47] <emeraldEclipse> Only Ross and the troll thats helped with the Array have codes to let me back in.
[22:48] <emeraldEclipse> And once I have an image of the Star, I should be able to narrow down the search paramaters so theres less exposure
[22:48] <artisticHourglass> Hm.
[22:49] <emeraldEclipse> It only saves the images within the colour range thats been set. Everything else is immediately discarded
[22:49] <artisticHourglass> Perhaps those old odd nuts yelling about green dream moons were actually on to something...
[22:49] <emeraldEclipse> Unfortunately, theres 18 stations in my session and 18 in Ross', it makes for a lot of images
[22:49] <emeraldEclipse> Green Dream Moons?
[22:50] <artisticHourglass> Oh! Has nobody told you that old fable?
[22:51] <emeraldEclipse> I'm only on my second session, and theres been a /lot/ to read
[22:51] <emeraldEclipse> I'm still trying to dig through the Seer Network database
[22:51] <artisticHourglass> Oh boy, good luck.
[22:51] <artisticHourglass> They *babbled* so *much*. How did their servers cope?
[22:52] <emeraldEclipse> I have no idea. Theres some good stuff in here, but just as much flawed results
[22:53] <emeraldEclipse> But sure, you tell me about the Green Moon, I'll tell you about the Green Star?
[22:53] <artisticHourglass> Okay! So - basically, back in Ye Olden Days of intersession communication, somebody started harping on about how they had a Green Dream Moon.
[22:54] <artisticHourglass> With Green Carapaces, ruled over by a Lord who was supposedly The Greatest Evil Everr.
[22:54] <artisticHourglass> (Two Rs and all.)
[22:54] * emeraldEclipse snorts
[22:54] <artisticHourglass> And then everybody told them to stop lying, and eventually others started mentioning it.
[22:54] <artisticHourglass> It would've been nothing had the conspiracy crew not stepped in.
[22:54] <emeraldEclipse> Oh lovely.
[22:55] <emeraldEclipse> [You're smiling though, amused.]
[22:55] <artisticHourglass> And the original tale was forgotten as everybody babbled about how clearly it was a sign of this or that, or how they'd seen it, or some other tall tale.
[22:56] <emeraldEclipse> If it wasn't for The Greatest Evil Everr, I'd think it was a pallete glitch or something similar
[22:58] <artisticHourglass> Behold the Greatest Evil Everr, behold the Greatest Evil Everr, behold the Greatest Evil Everr....
[22:58] <emeraldEclipse> Hah
[22:59] <emeraldEclipse> I take it nothing was ever confirmed by the fact its a fable?
[22:59] <artisticHourglass> Most people dismissed it as being a total crock, if I'm honest.
[23:00] <emeraldEclipse> The Greatest Evil Everr kinda pushes it over the top doesn't it?
[23:01] <artisticHourglass> There was a line, and they barrelled riiiight across it.
[23:01] <emeraldEclipse> Hehe
[23:01] <artisticHourglass> Green? Sure. We could accept green.
[23:02] <artisticHourglass> Also Prospit and Derse? Less sure.
[23:02] <emeraldEclipse> Crazier things have happened.
[23:02] <artisticHourglass> Them blowing Derse and Prospit up so the remaining carapaces frankenstein'd the remains of the two together and rallied to beat the Greatest Evil Everr? Nah.
[23:03] <emeraldEclipse> Not even close.
[23:04] <artisticHourglass> That ain't gonna fly.
[23:04] <artisticHourglass> Even if you strap Hope to it.
[23:05] <emeraldEclipse> Unfortunately, my research on the Green Star isn't quite as entertaining, but should be a little more concrete!
[23:05] <artisticHourglass> And if we can find it, well.
[23:05] <artisticHourglass> One question answered, many more raised.
[23:06] <emeraldEclipse> Indeed!
[23:06] <emeraldEclipse> From what I can understand, its a (or possibly several) star sized, well, stars
[23:07] <emeraldEclipse> Supposedly the source of First Guardian powers. Its sitting out in the Furthest Ring unassociated with a session.
[23:07] <artisticHourglass> Oh? What prompted that speculation?
[23:08] <emeraldEclipse> There was a First Guardian, or atleast, someone saying they were that came on here, long before my time. But there were logs of them.
[23:08] <artisticHourglass> ...Hm.
[23:08] <artisticHourglass> How long ago, do we know?
[23:08] <emeraldEclipse> I don't know off hand
[23:09] <artisticHourglass> Fair enough.
[23:09] <artisticHourglass> I'm not sure if I'll still retain records of that.
[23:09] <emeraldEclipse> I got logs off a secondary source
[23:10] <emeraldEclipse> At any rate, theres the occasional ring traveller's tale about seeing it
[23:12] <emeraldEclipse> I've got eighteen stations in the Array in my session, and like I said earlier, Ross has his own Array in his session
[23:12] <emeraldEclipse> Hang on, I'll get you a picture. It's a rather elegant design that Kai helped me with.
[23:14] <artisticHourglass> If you want, I can always set up an array here?
[23:14] * emeraldEclipse has linked the file from the Library : "Array Station 1" ((It's a hemisphere shaped object with a dark glassy outer shell. Judging from the girl standing beside it, its about five feet tall at its tallest point.))
[23:15] * artisticHourglass has downloaded the file!
[23:15] <artisticHourglass> Oooo.
[23:15] <emeraldEclipse> If you wanted to? I'm not going to ask you to do it, they're a little grist intensive.
[23:16] <artisticHourglass> Let me assure you that that is no issue.
[23:16] <artisticHourglass> I've got all the time in the medium, after all.
[23:17] <emeraldEclipse> [Aaaaaa, theres two founders trying to help you.]
[23:17] <emeraldEclipse> Well, I can get you the instructions to alchemize them then?
[23:18] <artisticHourglass> If you don't mind?
[23:18] * emeraldEclipse 3has linked the file from the Library : "Array Station Alchemization Instructions" ((It's a long and detailed list not unreminiscent of a IKEA instruction book))
[23:20] <emeraldEclipse> I've got mine at six stations around the Veil. Three at each station. One pointing away from Skaia, one pointing ninety degrees "up" and another pointing ninety degrees "down"
[23:20] * artisticHourglass has downloaded the file!
[23:20] <artisticHourglass> I might need to reinstate some meteors
[23:20] <artisticHourglass> But this should be workable!
[23:20] <emeraldEclipse> Unless its going to appear within tossing distance of the Veil, it provides absolute cover of the Ring from the location.
[23:21] <emeraldEclipse> If it does, please take pictures and let me know?
[23:21] <artisticHourglass> When I get them up and running, I'll report back anything interesting I find.
[23:22] <emeraldEclipse> Oh, you'll want the program that goes with it. Theres a link at the bottom of the manual. It'll filter out all the non-hits.
[23:22] <emeraldEclipse> Leaving just the false-positives and hopefully an actual picture of it sometime soon.
[23:24] <emeraldEclipse> It'll also send the ones it doesn't discard to my Library account. So if you find anything, just give me the time and the Array station it was recorded at!
[23:24] <artisticHourglass> Of course!
[23:27] <emeraldEclipse> But the plan is, once its actually /found/ is to narrow down the search parameters. Hopefully providing more images.
[23:28] <emeraldEclipse> See if it actually acts like a Star instead of being just shaped like one. And if there is just the one.
[23:29] <artisticHourglass> Get your baseline and refine.
[23:29] <artisticHourglass> Excellent.
[23:29] <emeraldEclipse> Yup!
[23:29] <emeraldEclipse> I mean, I can dream about using it as a refrence for the entirety of the Ring. As coordinates 0,0,0 but I'm pretty sure thats getting ahead of myself.
[23:31] <artisticHourglass> Might be a little tricky, what with how the Ring likes to shuffle itself around a lot.
[23:31] <emeraldEclipse> I've got my own ideas about that, but its a bit harder to test those
[23:31] <emeraldEclipse> Especially considering it'd involve, you know
[23:31] <emeraldEclipse> Going out into the Ring
[23:32] <artisticHourglass> Been there, done that.
[23:32] <artisticHourglass> Don't go.
[23:32] <artisticHourglass> Trust me, the wifi is terrible to say the least.
[23:33] <emeraldEclipse> My current hypothesis is that Ring spacetime isn't four dimensional, but probably several dimensions higher.
[23:33] <emeraldEclipse> I'm not planning on going any time soon, no.
[23:33] <artisticHourglass> That would be an interesting one to test, to say the least.
[23:34] <emeraldEclipse> It's...hmm
[23:34] <emeraldEclipse> Okay, imagine a piece of paper
[23:34] <emeraldEclipse> Thats our two dimensional plane of exsistance.
[23:35] <artisticHourglass> Bend the paper around and that's the three dimensional world we have.
[23:35] <emeraldEclipse> An ant walking along it is out two dimension person. And if you, yes
[23:35] <emeraldEclipse> Fold it, the ant will have appeared to have jumped erratically in the second dimension
[23:36] <emeraldEclipse> Doesn't sound too unsimilar to Ring travel, does it?
[23:36] <artisticHourglass> In the Ring, it's more like somebody screwed the paper up and then got the ant hopped up on speed.
[23:37] <emeraldEclipse> Why its probably several dimensions larger than three+time.
[23:37] <artisticHourglass> Which would explain several things about those dwelling there.
[23:38] <emeraldEclipse> Its my best guess anyways. Its entirely likely it'll never get figured out, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try, right?
[23:38] <artisticHourglass> Just be careful how you go about poking?
[23:38] <artisticHourglass> Trust me when I say that sometimes things poke back.
[23:38] <emeraldEclipse> Why I think I'm going to stick to ingame mundanities for now.
[23:39] <emeraldEclipse> Ring stuff is a little above and beyond what is directly applicable to all sessions
[23:43] <artisticHourglass> It's an interesting subject, if a bit hard to apply.
[23:43] <jellyfishTraveller> Wow you both talked a lot about stuff that I have no clue what they mean
[23:43] <emeraldEclipse> Theres a lot of interesting subjects
[23:44] <emeraldEclipse> Going to try and stick to the ones less likely to kill me.
[23:44] <jellyfishTraveller> Going to need a translator for all this. Oh! That's good to hear!
[23:44] <jellyfishTraveller> You get a smiley face next to your names
[23:45] <artisticHourglass> Understanding the game does not have to mean breaking things!
[23:45] <artisticHourglass> And sometimes, if you break something small in a careful way, it prepares you to face something that was already broken.
[23:46] <emeraldEclipse> And it might show you how it can be fixed or worked around.
[23:46] <artisticHourglass> And you can use the information to help others who don't have the means to do such a thing themselves.
[23:46] <artisticHourglass> Ah, but it's a complicated field! A messy one, too. I'd advise staying clear of it for now.
[23:48] <emeraldEclipse> Well it was only a fall back plan. If you can help me get in contact with your friend?
[23:48] <artisticHourglass> I'll do what I can for you!
[23:49] * artisticHourglass PMs "Ross" ( Dear, your absolutely *charming* young friend EE wants to speak to Snaplock to try and help prove a theory of hers. It's about the pipes and the wires and how weird they can be! You'll love it! )
[23:49] <artisticHourglass> And with that, I must bid you good day.
[23:49] <artisticHourglass> I have arrays to get set up, and there's no time like the present, eh?
[23:50] <emeraldEclipse> It was a pleasure meeting you! And thanks so much!
[23:50] <artisticHourglass> It's my utter pleasure, I assure you!
[23:50] <artisticHourglass> I'll be in touch soon!
[23:50] <emeraldEclipse> I look forward to it. :)
[23:51] <artisticHourglass> : )
[23:51] * artisticHourglass has disconnected from the server!