CSW on Slack

csw [12:43 PM]
joined #general

cryptonaut [12:43 PM]
:new_moon_with_face: :rocket:

csw [12:44 PM]
Scronty is a wanker

csw [12:44 PM]
I am tired of people saying they worked with me. Scronty even got the number of BTC wrong.

1 reply Today at 1:32 PM View thread

vlad2vlad [12:45 PM]
Welcome Dr. Wright!!!!

cryptonaut [12:45 PM]
so just some fan fiction then? and yes, welcome :smile:

csw [12:46 PM]
Yes, and not a fan

[12:47]
"I wondered how can I know that this is the original codebase ..."

[12:47]
It is not, it is close, but it is available on the satoshi Inst as well.

cryptonaut [12:47 PM]
Are you able to say how many there were on the team? 3, or was there more? Not that it matters really

csw [12:47 PM]
The first released code was 0.0.9

[12:47]
It crashed.

onchainscaling [12:47 PM]
Why was 21 million chosen? was it arbitrary number or is there a reason for that particular number?

csw [12:48 PM]
The first other users are Bear and Hal

[12:48]
M1

[12:48]
21 million links to global M1

christophbergmann [12:48 PM]
Hallo Mr. Wright!

csw [12:49 PM]
There are no decimal points, 21 million is the reference for people, the no. Satoshi (and I did not call them that) are related to M1 (edited)

cryptonaut [12:50 PM]
can you expand on that?

csw [12:50 PM]
http://lexicon.ft.com/Term?term=m0,-m1,-m2,-m3,-m4

[12:51]
If you read the 08 paper, you will note the use of fiat as a value.

[12:51]
Sect, 9. Page 5

[12:51]
In the use of 21 million x 10^8 parts you have a value that maps to the cent

[12:51]
That is, to global M1

vlad2vlad [12:52 PM]
So bitcoin is meant to displace global fiat

[12:52]
?

csw [12:52 PM]
This would be 21,000,000,000,000 USD as M1.

21,000 trillion

[12:52]
The idea is global cash.

[12:52]
A single world currency

[12:53]
Can I assume that you have read Hayek's work on global money?

vlad2vlad [12:53 PM]
You're not gonna have many friends out there.  But if you can pull it off bitcoin is gonna reach astronomical levels.

[12:53]
No.  But i will.  :)

csw [12:53 PM]
I have few friends.

cryptonaut [12:53 PM]
section 9 is titled 'combining and splitting value" and does not mention a fiat value

csw [12:54 PM]
I am not looking for them, I work best as I am and I find having a head in maths and code does not make one amiable to others.

[12:54]
"Although it would be possible to handle coins individually, it would be unwieldy to make a
separate transaction for every cent in a transfer"

[12:55]
I believe that you will find that in S9.

cryptonaut [12:55 PM]
right

[12:56]
gotcha

csw [12:56 PM]
I am sorry, I can be a little vague... If I am, ask for explanations.

[12:56]
I make assumptions of knowledge

cryptonaut [12:57 PM]
all good, just trying to piece together

csw [12:57 PM]
It comes from too long inside universities

cryptonaut [12:57 PM]
never been :wink:

csw [12:57 PM]
Never been out...


vlad2vlad [12:57 PM]
Lol

csw [1:00 PM]
Re: Bitcoin P2P e-cash paper 2008-11-10 14:09:26 UTC


James A. Donald wrote:
> Furthermore, it cannot be made to work, as in the
> proposed system the work of tracking who owns what coins
> is paid for by seigniorage, which requires inflation.

If you're having trouble with the inflation issue, it's easy to tweak it for
transaction fees instead. It's as simple as this: let the output value from
any transaction be 1 cent less than the input value. Either the client
software automatically writes transactions for 1 cent more than the intended
payment value, or it could come out of the payee's side. The incentive value
when a node finds a proof-of-work for a block could be the total of the fees in
the block.

Satoshi Nakamoto

cryptonaut [1:01 PM]
Hah. So google tells me M1 USD supply is just under 2.1 trillion. Total # of satoshis is 2100 trillion. Close enough I say lol.

csw [1:01 PM]
https://github.com/trottier/original-bitcoin/blob/92ee8d9a994391d148733da77e2bbc2f4acc43cd/src/util.cpp#L210
GitHub
trottier/original-bitcoin
original-bitcoin - This is a historical repository of Satoshi Nakamoto's original bitcoin sourcecode


[1:02]
Have a look at the code.

[1:03]
n /= CENT;

@212; 255; 261
in src/util.cpp

[1:03]
https://github.com/trottier/original-bitcoin/blob/92ee8d9a994391d148733da77e2bbc2f4acc43cd/src/main.h#L17
GitHub
trottier/original-bitcoin
original-bitcoin - This is a historical repository of Satoshi Nakamoto's original bitcoin sourcecode


[1:03]
Main.h

[1:03]
Defined against Cents

[1:04]
// Value
       int64 nValue = (GetRand(9) + 1) * 100 * CENT;
       if (GetBalance() < nValue)
       {
           wxMessageBox("Out of money ");
           return;
       }
       nValue += (nRep % 100) * CENT;

[1:04]
https://github.com/trottier/original-bitcoin/blob/92ee8d9a994391d148733da77e2bbc2f4acc43cd/src/ui.cpp#L3178
GitHub
trottier/original-bitcoin
original-bitcoin - This is a historical repository of Satoshi Nakamoto's original bitcoin sourcecode


[1:04]
Do you require more evidence?

cryptonaut [1:08 PM]
makes sense to me. Here's one for you though: what was the thinking behind adding the 1MB block limit that we are now dealing with 2.5+ years drama to solve?

csw [1:08 PM]
https://github.com/trottier/original-bitcoin/blob/92ee8d9a994391d148733da77e2bbc2f4acc43cd/src/main.cpp
GitHub
trottier/original-bitcoin
original-bitcoin - This is a historical repository of Satoshi Nakamoto's original bitcoin sourcecode


[1:09]
// Transaction fee requirements, mainly only needed for flood control
                   // Under 10K (about 80 inputs) is free for first 100 transactions
                   // Base rate is 0.01 per KB
                   int64 nMinFee = tx.GetMinFee(pblock->vtx.size() < 100);

[1:09]
At 0.08 cents a BTC, flood control did not work.

[1:09]
At more than 100USD, it does

[1:09]
We are at more than 100USD a BTC right now.

[1:10]
In early 2010, the number of nodes (please note, nodes are always verification agents, that is miners) was low. (edited)

cryptonaut [1:10 PM]
friggin $2200 canadian on localbitcoins right now

csw [1:11 PM]
It should be higher. The more people can use BitCoin natively, the more the value will increase.


cryptonaut [1:11 PM]
spelling it BitCoin is heresy you know :stuck_out_tongue:

csw [1:12 PM]
This is not as has been suggested exponential, but logistic

[1:12]
It was in the early code as BitCoin

cryptonaut [1:12 PM]
eh, looks ugly though. But yeah, to the moon and such

csw [1:12 PM]
https://github.com/trottier/original-bitcoin/blob/92ee8d9a994391d148733da77e2bbc2f4acc43cd/readme.txt
GitHub
trottier/original-bitcoin
original-bitcoin - This is a historical repository of Satoshi Nakamoto's original bitcoin sourcecode


[1:13]
Line 1: BitCoin v0.1.3 ALPHA

cryptonaut [1:13 PM]
Line 13: Bitcoin. Inconsistent lol

csw [1:13 PM]
I have never been accused of being a designer

[1:13]
I also never said I am perfect and yes, I do go back and forth.

[1:14]
Lines 34 - 36:

To support the network by running a node, select:

 Options->Generate Coins

cryptonaut [1:14 PM]
I tend to do the same when naming things

csw [1:14 PM]
Code naming conventions do not always move into the real world well.

cryptonaut [1:14 PM]
true

csw [1:14 PM]
Words are not variables as much as I would like to have this be so

[1:16]
I thought the comments in the code were rather good, then it seems they are either ignored or they are not read.

[1:16]
Either saddens me, though I cannot state which would sadden me more.

cryptonaut [1:16 PM]
which points or comments do you feel are being ignored?

csw [1:17 PM]
Have you read Brooks?

[1:17]
Mythical Man Month, 1975, 1995 re-printed

cryptonaut [1:17 PM]
I have not

csw [1:17 PM]
A shame.

[1:17]
Page 65 from memory of Brooks

[1:18]
Triple redundancy

[1:18]
//
// "Never go to sea with two chronometers; take one or three."
// Our three chronometers are:
//  - System clock
//  - Median of other server's clocks
//  - NTP servers
//
// note: NTP isn't implemented yet, so until then we just use the median
//  of other nodes clocks to correct ours.
//

[1:18]
https://github.com/trottier/original-bitcoin/blob/92ee8d9a994391d148733da77e2bbc2f4acc43cd/src/util.cpp#L326
GitHub
trottier/original-bitcoin
original-bitcoin - This is a historical repository of Satoshi Nakamoto's original bitcoin sourcecode


[1:19]
I do not see why there are arguments on things link the use off NTP as a base that is averaged in the system between nodes.

[1:19]
The code has a number of comments stating that this is to be done.

[1:20]
// Only let other nodes change our clock so far before we
           // go to the NTP servers
           /// todo: Get time from NTP servers, then set a flag
           ///    to make sure it doesn't get changed again
       }

[1:22]
And it should not be monolithic...

https://github.com/trottier/original-bitcoin/blob/92ee8d9a994391d148733da77e2bbc2f4acc43cd/src/net.cpp#L893
GitHub
trottier/original-bitcoin
original-bitcoin - This is a historical repository of Satoshi Nakamoto's original bitcoin sourcecode


[1:22]
//// todo: start one thread per processor, use getenv("NUMBER_OF_PROCESSORS")

[1:22]
And the market place was never fixed.
https://github.com/trottier/original-bitcoin/blob/92ee8d9a994391d148733da77e2bbc2f4acc43cd/src/ui.cpp#L1619
GitHub
trottier/original-bitcoin
original-bitcoin - This is a historical repository of Satoshi Nakamoto's original bitcoin sourcecode


cryptonaut [1:23 PM]
I'm not too familiar with the nuances of NTP and server clocks etc, just a humble web developer. To get back to the 1MB block size thing for a second - did you anticipate the difficulty of removing or replacing the limit that we are currently experiencing?

csw [1:23 PM]
There was supposed to be a means to have a merchant exchange a message with the purchaser. This would be a direct PoS system, no need for Visa etc.

[1:24]
2010

[1:24]
See email

[1:24]
Well before we get to where we are RIGHT NOW it is possible to preempt this and have an increase.

jp [1:25 PM]
Why did you credit Adam Back hashcash when you didn't use it?

csw [1:25 PM]
Adam intro'd Wei

[1:25]
I do not generally talk to people I do not know. Not without an intro

jp [1:26 PM]
But why credit him while you not used his? This wrong citation creates this evil blockstream

csw [1:26 PM]
Adam was helpful for all that he said it would not work, but I am used to people saying my work is not worth considering.

jp [1:26 PM]
Why you didn't credit triple entry accounting?

csw [1:27 PM]
I am not able to see the future.

cryptonaut [1:27 PM]
re: merchant exchange, decent idea but probably premature and not the best idea to put so many use cases into a single application (for example, the wallet accounts system used by Core is total garbage)

csw [1:27 PM]
The list of references would be in the 100s of pages if I was to list the giants it was built to stand upon.

jp [1:28 PM]
You used triple entry accounting in 2005 to inspire blockchain. But instead you credited something not actually used

csw [1:28 PM]
Yes, the marketplace was far too early. And my design skills are far too poor.

[1:28]
Using wxHtml was also a mistake.

jp [1:29 PM]
It is why Ian grigg was heavily undervalued while core Adam back is crook

cryptonaut [1:29 PM]
the idea for PoW is an iteration/evolution of hashcash so I don't think the citation is off base really

csw [1:29 PM]
And triple entry accounting was something I stayed away from commenting

jp [1:29 PM]
It is not too late to comment now

csw [1:29 PM]
It was something I was introduced to when I was working at BDO, an accounting firm

jp [1:29 PM]
Yes. Granger did

csw [1:31 PM]
Again, I never foresaw the world to come as it has come. I did not see the politics. I saw state actors as more the issue than Adam B(l)ack


jp [1:31 PM]
I Think you should also correct the citation.  Adam back himself was surprised when he saw he was credited

christophbergmann [1:31 PM]
why was Ian Grigg heavily undervalued, @jp ?

cryptonaut [1:31 PM]
what a mind trip adam must have had lol

jp [1:32 PM]
He was the one kept looking for hmwjo SN was because he was surprised as his name was included in whitepaper while he knew hashcash was not used

csw [1:32 PM]
It is published. Papers should not be played with

[1:32]
I am not a god, I am a researcher. I code, I do maths and I am fallible. (edited)

jp [1:33 PM]
It is not late to correctly credit people whose works you used.

[1:33]
Adam back is not and should not be on whitepaper because of just an introduction email to Wei Dai

csw [1:34 PM]
Should not. Is. These are separate concepts.

tomothy
[1:34 PM]
I know you touched on the 1mb cap and mining but can you comment on the idea of the UASF, (user activated soft fork) and your thought on using it to implement segwit? Also general thoughts on segwit? Thanks.

csw [1:34 PM]
I do not want to be found. I did not want to be found.

cryptonaut [1:34 PM]
frankly unless csw somehow 100% proves he is satoshi, any whitepaper update wouldn't be taken seriously and probably a waste of time. Plus blockstream is already a thing, too late for that


csw [1:35 PM]
UASF - Miners are nodes. Nodes are miners.

[1:35]
There are NO full non-mining nodes.


[1:35]
Please read the paper.

[1:35]
It is VERY VERY clear

[1:35]
If you have issues, look at the code.

tomothy
[1:35 PM]
And then segwit generally?

csw [1:36 PM]
"Nodes" that are not mining are wallets, these are fat SPV systems and sock puppets

[1:36]
SegWit centralises the system

jp [1:36 PM]
What is your plan to stop segwit? A hard fork coming soon?

csw [1:36 PM]
It means that developers can make further changes without a consensus

bdd [1:36 PM]
joined #general

csw [1:37 PM]
There will not be an update. Mistakes on referencing or not

tomothy
[1:37 PM]
To the best of your knowledge, does segwit infringe on any patents?

csw [1:38 PM]
And I will not prove. I am not here to prove. If you need to listen as you think that I am and this is the sole reason, then it is lost to you in any event.

[1:38]
Tomothy.

[1:38]
Yes

[1:38]
I cannot expand on that here and now.

[1:39]
That will be addressed soon and in the manner that is requires

tomothy
[1:39 PM]
And is it safe to the assume that the creators of segwit had alterior motives for creating it, introducing it, and refusing to increase 1mb limit?

[1:39]
Understood. Eagerly await.

csw [1:39 PM]
I cannot speak for the motivations of others I do not know intimately

jp [1:39 PM]
What can we do to help?


csw [1:40 PM]
Law is Law.
Cryptographic tools are tools.
I know many do not see this, but when it comes to intellectual property, it is rather certain.

[1:40]
To help... compete.

[1:40]
Competition and markets are the source of human freedom and innovation.

[1:41]
Make something.


[1:41]
Develop

jp [1:41 PM]
Compete in what way? I see that the SDK is one stone two birds. Kill core and alts

csw [1:41 PM]
And if you fail for the n-th time... Start and try again.

cryptonaut [1:41 PM]
amen to that, @jp compete in all ways :stuck_out_tongue:

[1:41]
getting super late here, I'm out guys. Cheers


jp [1:41 PM]
Will there be any smart contract applications coming?

csw [1:41 PM]
I cannot discuss that./

[1:42]
I also need to go.
I am sorry, but I have a lot to do.


jp [1:42 PM]
Thank you.

tomothy
[1:42 PM]
Same, thanks for providing so many responses!

csw [1:42 PM]
Please, all I ask is do not follow me, a developer or anyone based on who they are. Look anytime, everytime on the solution, the effects and the trade-off.


bitsko [1:43 PM]
thank you for your thoughts!

csw [1:43 PM]
Please remember, this is a world of scarcity, there is always something that is a trade-off, a cost and we cannot just assume that a change comes without a cost.

[1:43]
Fair well.