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[11:37]	Boxelder	this the dnd game
[11:37]	Boxelder	?
[11:37]	Boxelder	if so mind if I just watch?
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[11:37]	Yes	bbl
[11:38]	NonSequitur	Yeah, should be possible
[11:38]	Yes	gimme twenty mins?
[11:38]	NonSequitur	That's fine, We'll talk about things in general until then.
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[11:39]	Exodin	whoops
[11:39]	Exodin	sorry for the delay
[11:45]	NonSequitur	Nah, it happens.
[11:45]	NonSequitur	Yes needs twenty, I'm till tryin gto get in touch with Red, in the mean time Pill wants to watch so, we got four players + an observer now.
[11:46]	Exodin	kk
[11:50]	NonSequitur	The general overview of the game will be members of a government sponsored adventurer's guild in a country that's had unfortunately quite a few problems after a major war 26 years ago.
[11:53]	NonSequitur	I am expecting to fill everyone in ont he setting and have them make characters togeter.
[11:53]	Exodin	mmkay
[11:59]	NonSequitur	Though in the mean time, Exodin, what sort of char idea did you have? Expanded on that angry gnome?
[11:59]	Exodin	uuuh
[11:59]	Exodin	I dig the barbarian idea a lot?
[12:00]	Exodin	I think it might just be a dude who's really sort of mad at all the nobles squabbling, the government, all that stuff
[12:00]	UserShadow7989	Barb is a pretty good class for a newer player, too- straightforward and you always have your basic tools set out for you (unlike the Fighter which actually takes a bit of system mastery to get use out of, due to its only options being feats, which are all over the place in terms of usefulness)
[12:00]	Exodin	not to mention the encroaching orcs just add onto the already existing ton of bullshit
[12:03]	Yes	.bak
[12:03]	UserShadow7989	wb
[12:03]	UserShadow7989	Also Yes, if you still want to use my Monk fix, that's absolutely on the table
[12:04]	Yes	what'll you be rolling with, den?
[12:04]	NonSequitur	Oh, there's a tidal wave of drek that needs taken care of
[12:04]	UserShadow7989	I've got a secondary idea all lined up I can put together
[12:04]	UserShadow7989	Rogue 1/Warlock 1, the ex-merchant idea I mentioned yesterday
[12:04]	Yes	hoho
[12:04]	Yes	well I mean what'd you like to roll? half the reason is to figure out how well monkdude plays out, I believe
[12:05]	Yes	I only offered the option as an idle possibility
[12:05]	UserShadow7989	Basically I have a combo I always wanted to try (though it'd only be at 3rd level that I'd get to do it if I want to fulfill the skill monkey role competently).
[12:05]	Yes	sure sure
[12:06]	UserShadow7989	I've been starting to hype myself on the merchant, but I can honestly go for either one; I'm torn on which
[12:06]	UserShadow7989	so it depends basically on whatever you're most interested in
[12:07]	NonSequitur	Ah, do what you like, the skills will be coming fairly quickly either way.
[12:09]	Yes	I'll defer to your expertise, hawke!
[12:09]	Yes	I'll do whatever to pull my weight
[12:11]	UserShadow7989	Hm
[12:13]	UserShadow7989	I've got most of a Monk stated up already, but I honestly have zero clue. Since you're new to 3.5e, I almost want to say that you should stick to official material, but 'official' doesn't really mean 'well-balanced' either.
[12:13]	UserShadow7989	And while I'd LIKE to test the Monk fix, that isn't a 100% necessity for this game.
[12:15]	UserShadow7989	In fact it'd probably be better not to use this as the stress test, since my main concern is making sure there's no easy way to use it to snap game balance in half; not something that should take place in a game that might run for multiple sessions, or with new players in it
[12:15]	UserShadow7989	I might actually go with the ex-merchant AND recommend you not use the Monk fix, going by that logic
[12:15]	UserShadow7989	There'll always be another chance some other time, after all
[12:15]	Yes	that's fine
[12:15]	Yes	when we've broken into it we can go ham
[12:16]	UserShadow7989	Mm. Plus if something unfortunate happens, it means I've got a back up character, heh.
[12:19]	UserShadow7989	So we've got a front-liner and a ranged attacker/skill monkey for the party so far
[12:20]	UserShadow7989	oh, before I forget again
[12:21]	UserShadow7989	http://dndtools.pw/ this is a really good way to look up classes, feats, etc for reference or if you need ideas on what to do with your character
[12:59]	NonSequitur	That is rather useful! I was going to suggest the 3.5 srd.
[12:59]	NonSequitur	I don't know if Red's gonna show up anytime soon, and 3/4 is good enough, I'll just catch him up later. Sound okay?
[13:02]	UserShadow7989	Mm
[13:02]	UserShadow7989	also, back from feeding cats lunch
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[13:04]	Yes	kk
[13:07]	UserShadow7989	Heh, fun thing about Warlocks? Invocations are at-will. I'm planning on picking up Darkness at 3rd level (Warlock 2) for the combo, but right now I have Shatter at-will. That's one way to take care of traps and locks, amirite?
[13:09]	UserShadow7989	The trade-off for Warlocks against Wizards or the like is that Warlocks are VERY limited in what 'spells' they know. They get a whopping 12 Invocations by 20th level, and most of them are pretty straightforward in use. The idea was that they'd make up for lack of versatility with staying power, but that doesn't really pan out considering how quickly casters get a bunch of spells per day.
[13:10]	Yes	I rather like spell-casting classes
[13:11]	UserShadow7989	They do get plenty of cool stuff, though. Detect Magic at-will at Warlock 2, Eldritch Blast is honestly pretty bleh but dang if it isn't cool, and you can do some fun stuff with the fact that their Invocations are Spell-like Abilities. For example, the Darkness Invocations meets the prerequisite for feats that require 'Darkness as a Spell-like Ability', which is how the combo I've always...
[13:11]	UserShadow7989	...wanted to try works
[13:12]	UserShadow7989	Mm, they're a load of fun, since what they can do is very varied at any time and a lot of spells are only as limited as your books and/or imagination.
[13:12]	UserShadow7989	Kind of means the poor mundane classes get blown out of the water, at times
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[13:34]	NonSequitur	Okay, so It's time to start character creation. Do you need to know more about the setting, or do you have your general ideas already?
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[13:42]	UserShadow7989	I've got plenty of ideas, myself, actually. I'm thinking my ex-merchant may have been descended from a minor noble who went bust/lost their land in the war, tried and failed to get back to prestige working the markets between the larger cities and nearby settlements.
[13:42]	UserShadow7989	She probably started off just picking up the family job and entertaining aspirations of gaining back former glory put in her head by her parents, acting as a traveling merchant  but eventually shook it off as the pipe dream it is and pursued her own interests instead, closing up shop and deciding to travel to satisfy her own curiosity.
[13:42]	UserShadow7989	I could probably cover us on the transportation front; with Eldritch Blast I won't need a masterwork weapon or the like, so I can splurge a little on some Mules and a Carriage to help us get around. Say it's a wagon she inherited, noting that the painting is worn off but also notes some prices for illegible products, and what looks like it used to be a fancy crest carved into the wood.
[13:42]	UserShadow7989	Always when I'm typing a big
[13:42]	UserShadow7989	'ol wall
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[14:01]	NonSequitur	Huh, lost everyone
[14:01]	UserShadow7989	Mm, Yes and Exo got Ping'd
[14:02]	UserShadow7989	I finished a wall o' text right after you got disconnected, though
[14:02]	UserShadow7989	[13:42]	UserShadow7989	I've got plenty of ideas, myself, actually. I'm thinking my ex-merchant may have been descended from a minor noble who went bust/lost their land in the war, tried and failed to get back to prestige working the markets between the larger cities and nearby settlements.
[14:02]	UserShadow7989	[13:42]	UserShadow7989	She probably started off just picking up the family job and entertaining aspirations of gaining back former glory put in her head by her parents, acting as a traveling merchant  but eventually shook it off as the pipe dream it is and pursued her own interests instead, closing up shop and deciding to travel to satisfy her own curiosity.
[14:02]	UserShadow7989	[13:42]	UserShadow7989	I could probably cover us on the transportation front; with Eldritch Blast I won't need a masterwork weapon or the like, so I can splurge a little on some Mules and a Carriage to help us get around. Say it's a wagon she inherited, noting that the painting is worn off but also notes some prices for illegible products, and what looks like it used to be a fancy crest...
[14:02]	UserShadow7989	...carved into the wood.
[14:19]	NonSequitur	Warlocks are fun too, yeah. Off the beaten path.
[14:19]	NonSequitur	In the mean time until Yes and Exodin make it back, shall we get into the crunch?
[14:21]	UserShadow7989	Sure, I'm working on the sheet right now.
[14:22]	UserShadow7989	http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=289636 Here's what I have right now. The 'Other Notes' section lists the source and general description of anything non-core for easy reference.
[14:22]	NonSequitur	What do you have so far?
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[14:23]	UserShadow7989	Class, feats, skills are all picked out
[14:23]	Boxelder	oh hey I got the name right
[14:23]	UserShadow7989	Gotta choose one more language
[14:23]	UserShadow7989	I'm working on equipment at the moment
[14:23]	UserShadow7989	heyo Pill
[14:24]	UserShadow7989	(Also, Studded Leather is heavy as hell; cursed carrying capacity.)
[14:24]	UserShadow7989	(Well, heavy for a 10 Strength character)
[14:25]	UserShadow7989	There is one ruling I'd like to know ahead of time; it's not relevant now, but it will be if we hit 3rd level.
[14:25]	NonSequitur	Hmm, mythweavers is taking a long time to load, and what's that?
[14:26]	UserShadow7989	There's a feat I plan to take that lets me spend uses of my Darkness SLA to hide without cover/concealment and while observed so long as I'm within 10 ft. of 'an area of magical darkness'
[14:26]	UserShadow7989	Basically it lets me spend a Swift Action to get the benefits of the non-crappy version of Hide in Plain Sight for one hide attempt.
[14:27]	UserShadow7989	The issue is that no official materials define 'an area'. RAW, I could stuff an item I cast Darkness on into my pocket and that'll count, but I want to know your ruling on it
[14:28]	NonSequitur	I'd rule that at ast least concealing one 'square'
[14:29]	UserShadow7989	It's basically what perked my interest in a stealth character, since normally Hide is utterly useless without optimizing it (a lot of stuff circumvents it without the right feats, you can't hide while observed/without cover/concealment, etc)
[14:29]	UserShadow7989	Perfectly fair
[14:29]	UserShadow7989	brb
[14:29]	NonSequitur	I have no intention to mess with the grids if we don't have to, but that already defines it as 'enough area to hide one person.
[14:30]	UserShadow7989	back with food, and yeah
[14:30]	NonSequitur	Huh, Mythweavers doesn't work on chrome, but opened up right away in FF
[14:30]	UserShadow7989	It just means I can't poof from sight without a trace- gotta drop a Darkness sphere and work from there.
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[14:31]	NonSequitur	Mmhmm. That makes sense.to me
[14:38]	UserShadow7989	Baleful Utterance is my idea of a Disable Device or Open Lock check, on that note (heh)
[14:41]	NonSequitur	"Fuck your lock, fuck your door, too."
[14:44]	UserShadow7989	Mhmm
[14:45]	UserShadow7989	"Ghbx" *Crack* "Oh, sorry, have a bit of a cold. Hm? Something's wrong with that finely designed wall spike trap? What a shame."
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[14:46]	UserShadow7989	wb Yes
[14:46]	Yes	yo
[14:48]	UserShadow7989	The only shame is that Aubree has a negative Cha modifier, so she can't just 'oops' people's weapons away with Baleful Utterance (since held/carried items get to use their carrier's saving throws, and Warlock saves are Cha-based)
[14:48]	UserShadow7989	and hiya Yes
[14:48]	NonSequitur	Working on chars now, what ideas did you have, Yes?
[14:49]	Yes	first off, did I miss anything about the world?
[14:49]	Yes	history being that there was a big war in days of yore
[14:50]	UserShadow7989	26 years ago, to be precise
[14:50]	UserShadow7989	because of that, authorities have institutionalized adventurers to A. better aim opportunists and B. minimize murderhobo-ing
[14:51]	Yes	what's the general attitude towards magicks in this world?
[14:53]	NonSequitur	Bob the local hedge wizard's alright, if your kids' a smart cookie you send 'em to the wizardling academy where they [s]will likely die for the sake of some kid with a lightning bolt on his forehead[/s] will grow to be fine wizards to make mama proud.  Sorcery is weird and generally  it's accepted that sketchy magic happens but most people think it's
[14:55]	NonSequitur	the mage they /don't/ know who's proven to be a responsible member of the community that's doing all that  necromancy and demon-summoning and the like. The regition's built atop 'irresponsible magic use' so in general it's gone a long way from 'burn all witches' in ages past, but  those people are in the minority  in most places.
[14:57]	Yes	hm
[14:57]	Yes	I wanted to do a magic class?
[14:58]	UserShadow7989	Hm, an interesting idea occurs to me; in the fluff for the class, it's noted that a lot of Warlocks either made a faustian bargain, or are descended from the results of one. Some are just like sorcerers, but it might be a bit 'fun' if Aubree's abilities are the result of some unfortunate family 'business dealings' done by her grandfather or grandmother back during the war.
[14:59]	UserShadow7989	and a magic class would be a pretty great idea; we don't really have one, currently (Warlocks barely count as one)
[15:02]	NonSequitur	Perhaps she can expect a visitor one day regarding a contract dispute she inherited: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110804234014/megamitensei/images/0/0a/1664716-melchomportrait.jpg
[15:02]	Yes	eh
[15:02]	Yes	heheh
[15:02]	UserShadow7989	pfft
[15:03]	UserShadow7989	"Considering whatever member of my family made the deal is long dead, I assume you've already gotten your payment regarding that transaction. In short: piss off."
[15:03]	Yes	I was feeling wiz, possibly?
[15:03]	Yes	necromancy or illusions
[15:03]	Yes	possibly conjuration?
[15:03]	Yes	I'm pretty sold on some really chipper elf just raising the dead
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[15:04]	UserShadow7989	Wizards are tons of fun, and Illusions in particular are a lot of laughs if used right. Conjuration is one of the two strongest schools in the game, too, and those two play VERY nicely together by leaving everyone guessing as to whether you really summoned X, or if it's just an illusion.
[15:04]	Nonseq	Pact options also include fey and lovecraft ripoff things though
[15:05]	Yes	re:warlock?
[15:05]	UserShadow7989	Nercomancy can be fun too, though hard to swing in a good party and not as potent (Still awesome if used right; kind of says something about the Wizard that even specializing in one of its 'weakest' schools is still really potent).
[15:06]	UserShadow7989	and mhmm
[15:06]	UserShadow7989	that's why the alignment requirements of the class are 'Any Evil AND/OR Any Chaotic'
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[15:07]	UserShadow7989	The non-evil ones are assumed to have made a deal with Fey or a similarly tricky-but-not-necessarily-evil patron
[15:08]	Yes	hoho
[15:08]	UserShadow7989	Or just happened to have inherited the abilities of an ancestor who was less discerning
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[15:10]	UserShadow7989	I imagine it would /technically/ be possible to make a deal with a good-aligned outsider, but I imagine it's much rarer; an evil one gets something out of you for it and gets the pleasure of watching you wreck havoc with the resulting abilities, while a good-aligned patron would only do it if they were absolutely sure you're not going to cause harm with it (and even then, the whole deal...
[15:10]	UserShadow7989	...about it sometimes passing on to your descendants who might not share your morality thing kind of puts the kibosh on that)
[15:12]	UserShadow7989	So yeah, Fey'd be your only reasonable go to, and depending on how the Fey are presented in a given setting, that's not necessarily an improvement
[15:13]	UserShadow7989	One of my favorite interpretations points out that Fey societal structure would be pretty heavily affected by their immortality and reality warping, so even ones that WANT to help or simply want to do a harmless prank might do some serious harm just because their frame of reference is so far off from a human's
[15:14]	UserShadow7989	Like they give you a pretty nasty curse that 'only' lasts 20 years, because that's like 2 minutes from the perspective of someone who lives thousands of years
[15:14]	UserShadow7989	Or they stab you in the back in a literal manner because "What? What are you screaming about? I thought you LIKED knives, I mean, you carry them around all the time and use them to cook and eat."
[15:15]	UserShadow7989	"Typical mortals, can't make up their mind. You with me? Eh? Eh?"
[15:16]	NonSequitur	Anyways, what magic class appeals, Yes?
[15:16]	UserShadow7989	He mentioned wizard
[15:17]	NonSequitur	Ah, Wizard's fun, more bookkeeping than sorceror, but more versatile with enough time to plan, too.
[15:18]	UserShadow7989	Mm. They're basically the Batman class
[15:18]	UserShadow7989	Except less punching/kicking and more telling physics to go to its corner.
[15:19]	UserShadow7989	Or the Doctor Doom class, if going with an evil wizard
[15:19]	NonSequitur	Equal amounts of breathing in space.
[15:19]	UserShadow7989	Mhmm
[15:21]	NonSequitur	They key casting stat for wizards is intelligence.  Dex is useful for anyone who's not going to be wearing a ton of armor, and con's useful for everyone. you can arrange the other stats to taste. What race did you have in mind?
[15:22]	UserShadow7989	He did mention a cheerful Elf Necromancer, though also expressed interest in Illusion and Conjuration
[15:23]	UserShadow7989	(If going with Illusion and not opposed to a Gnome, I suggest looking into the Shadowcraft Mage and Shadowcrafter prestige classes for some fun with 'real' Illusions, but only if both of those are accurate)
[15:24]	UserShadow7989	Don't be afraid to dig around d20srd.org for different types of Elves, since they kind of get the short end of the stick in terms of the basic races but have some interesting variants.
[15:24]	UserShadow7989	http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/variantRaces.htm
[15:26]	UserShadow7989	For example, Fire Elves. +2 Dex and Int, -2 Con and Cha. The Con penalty sucks, but it's common in Elves and you'll hopefully be staying far from the front lines yet close to someone who can play meatshield in an emergency.
[15:27]	UserShadow7989	Arctic Elves get a Strength penalty instead of a Con penalty, which helps since Strength is your dump stat with Charisma
[15:27]	UserShadow7989	Desert Elves also get -Str +Dex
[15:28]	UserShadow7989	Gray Elves are +2 Int and -2 Strength, probably the best for Wizards of Elf Races
[15:29]	UserShadow7989	oh, wait, quick correction: Gray Elves are +2 Dex and +2 Int, -2 Str and -2 Con
[15:30]	UserShadow7989	(do yourself a favor and stay away from Half Elves, though)
[15:30]	Yes	hehe
[15:31]	Yes	I didn't have a particular race?
[15:32]	UserShadow7989	http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm this is also worth looking over if you want to be a Wizard specialist, and there are a couple more options in (I -think-) Complete Arcane
[15:32]	UserShadow7989	ah
[15:33]	Yes	I'm probably going to read up more on lore
[15:39]	NonSequitur	Alright, any campaign specific questions, then?
[15:40]	Yes	yeah, sure
[15:40]	Yes	how do the races regard each other
[15:40]	Yes	and what level of urbanization will I be expecting for 'em?
[15:41]	Yes	I guess for me it'll be about elves specifically
[15:43]	NonSequitur	Elves depends on continent. Elves that have adopted some of the ways of human and dwarf neighbors live nearer to the continent. Back halfway around the world where apparently Elves originated they're much less enlightened as to the value of people that are not elves
[15:43]	Yes	What's our continent specifically like den
[15:44]	NonSequitur	Dark elves don't exist, and if they did, surely the authorities are not lying to you to avoid a panic of  bands of dark skinned evil elves that come out on moonless nights to cause mayhem and destruction in remote areas.
[15:44]	NonSequitur	Yes, just like rodents of ununsual size, do not believe drow exist.
[15:46]	UserShadow7989	back, sorry, did some dinner dishes
[15:47]	NonSequitur	Well, it's got it's ups and downs. The elves that live there have been urbanized for centuries 'cause they are all technically descendants of elven colonies that got conqured and made vassal states of the human empire which itself collapsed just over a millennium ago.
[15:47]	Yes	oh?
[15:48]	Yes	has human colonization hit the rest of [s]meta-humanity[/s]
[15:48]	NonSequitur	Some elves are still salty over that and the others have a term for people like that: Assholes. Everyone else kind of integrates into the current cities or pastoral woodland towns.
[15:49]	NonSequitur	Today your captial city is considered uncultured and backwards if you don't have an Elven Quarter. They mainly focus on arts magic, or nature, depending on their flavor's preferred flavor.
[15:50]	UserShadow7989	So basically, the Elves on the continent fit in relatively well with Humans and the like, at least as much can be expected in a medieval setting, while Elves on the opposite side of the globe are Suikoden 'look at the funny little neanderthals, they think they're people!' assholes waiting for someone with a particularly big magnifying glass to to turn their fancy tree houses into kindling.
[15:50]	UserShadow7989	?
[15:50]	Yes	ahaha
[15:50]	Yes	fantastic
[15:51]	Yes	so the elfin lands are definitely a thing
[15:51]	UserShadow7989	(Except presumably less stupid, just racist)
[15:51]	NonSequitur	Yup! The Dwarves had a rival empire at the time, which some swear is still around, but it's more of an empire in name only. And there's more dwarves living out of it than in.
[15:52]	Yes	oh, do adventurers work on commission?
[15:52]	Yes	or do we have straight up adventurecorp
[15:52]	UserShadow7989	(Seriously, when you find out that an evil encroaching empire has the ability to set shit on fire from a distance, you shouldn't shrug it off because 'our forest is enchanted so no non-elf can find their way through' and sit into your cozy chair atop the city you built INTO A MASSIVE, FLAMMABLE TREE)
[15:53]	NonSequitur	Yeah, I'm thinking it's depending on job, usually you get paid a bounty to get rid of dangerous monsters or make sure there's nothing dangerous in the middle of that dungeon.  They're generous with what you can keep on your adventures too.
[15:55]	NonSequitur	Orcs are kind of intresting, most of them are exactly what you'd expect, living out on the fronteer causing a ruckus for all those soft city foils. The exception are the Red Skull Archipelligo, which surprises a lot of people as the orcs there built a functional civiziliation on their own.
[15:56]	Yes	how big is the continent
[15:56]	NonSequitur	Lots of ship building, a navy and merchant marine for hire by those who have use for them, but mostly? People remember it Red Skull being a pirate haven, such a huge pirate haven.
[15:58]	NonSequitur	I'm saying there's two larger ones, and three smaller ones, the one the game takes place on is a bit bigger than Australia, much less Mad Maxy in all ways, craggy and moutainous to the north with more rolling hils plains, and good forrestry and farmland to the south (Which is where the home country is) The continent of the Elves is one of the smaller ones,
[15:59]	Yes	cool cool
[15:59]	Yes	and are there competing nations where we call home
[15:59]	NonSequitur	The other major one seems overrun with wilderness now with signs of a civilization there once, but since every explorer that poked too closely into that has gone missing? It's  still a big mystery. It's size has been estimated somewhere around just under North America's size, by estimates of peoplethat sailed around it.
[16:01]	NonSequitur	Many of them! Most of them are self-styled inheritors of the empire. Two neighbors of the country have aims to annex the nation into their own. One even going as far as to invade and start off that war. The other one never set troops on the soil but is suspected of all manner of skullduggery before, during and after the war.
[16:01]	Yes	oh god
[16:02]	Yes	a chipper grey elf with a spooky skeleton butler would be incredibly goofy
[16:02]	UserShadow7989	ahaha
[16:03]	Yes	god, okay
[16:03]	UserShadow7989	Might require some refuge in audacity to handle, though- "Oh, Mr. Bones? No, he's no skeleton, he's a Golem. Do you honestly think a Necromancer would run around in plain sight with ONE skeleton to guard them? None to stay undercover or an army for defense, certainly, but one?"
[16:03]	Yes	time for me to get the 3.5 books and
[16:03]	Yes	actually start hashing out a sheet
[16:04]	UserShadow7989	http://dndtools.pw/ http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm linking again for quick reference materials
[16:04]	Yes	In the interest of not getting dead? How much should I be sinking into con for 3.5
[16:04]	Yes	5 dials back on the hp a lot
[16:05]	UserShadow7989	Generally? You want it your second or third best attribute at least, barring corner cases like playing an undead character
[16:05]	Yes	if memory serves, wiz hit die is 4
[16:05]	UserShadow7989	More hit points, better Fortitude Save, better Concentration checks for casters.
[16:05]	UserShadow7989	Yup
[16:06]	UserShadow7989	they upped it to d6 in Pathfinder for all 1/2BAB classes, d8 for 3/4th BAB classes, and d10 for full BAB classes (or d12 for Barbarian)
[16:06]	NonSequitur	Int's most important for a wiz, dex and con come next.
[16:06]	UserShadow7989	In 3.5e though, low levels are a little infamous for being dangerous.
[16:06]	UserShadow7989	and what non said
[16:07]	UserShadow7989	Int determines what spells you can cast at all, how many bonus spells per day you get, and so on
[16:07]	UserShadow7989	So it's priority 1.
[16:08]	Yes	I almost want to do THEY'RE ILLUSIONS MICHAEL but it looks like I'll be dipping more or less into that as a 5e bard
[16:08]	UserShadow7989	Dex determines your bonus to initiative, and going first is pretty important for battlefield control characters to ensure your melee allies aren't in the way when they hold the line/make their charge.
[16:09]	UserShadow7989	It'll also be your main source of AC, since no armor
[16:16]	UserShadow7989	In addition to the Skeletal Minion, Enhanced Undead is probably worth the trade off.
[16:18]	UserShadow7989	Also, Mules are somewhat good stat-wise compared to some characters at second level, have low hit dice, and are 8gp a piece. Unfortunately, I think the earliest you can make Undead with spells is 5th level (3rd level spell), so you're kind of stuck there.
[16:18]	UserShadow7989	On a side note, I've heard that Clerics are the best necromancers, but this is not a high op game and Skeleton Butler sounds far too cool to pass on.
[16:20]	NonSequitur	Yeah, necromancy, is kind of like that.
[16:20]	UserShadow7989	Sorry, 7th level as a Wizard (Animate Dead is a 3rd level spell for Clerics, but 4th level for Wizards)
[16:21]	UserShadow7989	I think Libris Mortis has a feat that also buffs created undead stats? Lemme check
[16:21]	UserShadow7989	http://dndtools.pw/feats/libris-mortis-the-book-of-undead--71/corpsecrafter--432/ yup, here it is, and it stacks with Enhanced Undead
[16:21]	UserShadow7989	er, no, just the hp
[16:22]	UserShadow7989	both strength bonuses are enhancement bonuses, so no stacking there
[16:22]	UserShadow7989	Destruction Retribution is a fun feat that requires Corpsecrafter, though
[16:22]	Yes	ooh
[16:22]	UserShadow7989	lots of fun- can you say, 'literal murder of crows'?
[16:22]	Yes	what do necromancers do at low level then ._.
[16:23]	Yes	just pokemon it out?
[16:23]	UserShadow7989	Pretty much? They act like generalist wizards for the most part. There are some fun low level necromancy spells that are debuffs
[16:24]	UserShadow7989	Ray of Enfeeblement hurts melee bruiser-type enemies plenty
[16:25]	UserShadow7989	Cause Fear makes a 5 HD or lower creature frightened for 1d4 rounds, basically good divide and conquer right there
[16:25]	UserShadow7989	You only have to drop 2 schools to be a specialist in 3.Xe, too, so that's no big deal.
[16:25]	NonSequitur	Mostly going to ve relying on useful spells from your other  non-banned schools too. Which two schools are he giving up, btw?
[16:27]	UserShadow7989	Ooh, Ghoul Touch is a 2nd level spell; you can paralyze anything dumb enough to get close to you with that, and nauseate anything around it for further battlefield control; combine it with Spectral Hand (also Necromancy and a 2nd level spell) and you don't have to get close to do it, either
[16:28]	-->|	AnonymousGuevara ([email protected]) has joined #SorceressDefiesGravity
[16:29]	UserShadow7989	As for right now, Color Spray, Grease, and Cause Fear are great battlefield control spells for a Wizard
[16:29]	NonSequitur	'ey, Gue!
[16:29]	UserShadow7989	For 2nd level, at least
[16:29]	AnonymousGuevara	yo
[16:29]	UserShadow7989	though Grease works great for a long time after most 1st level spells fall by the wayside
[16:29]	NonSequitur	What your barred schools are will matter too, even a specialist has a good reason to dip into others now and then.
[16:29]	UserShadow7989	Sleep is also handy at low levels, though it rapidly diminishes
[16:30]	UserShadow7989	and what Non said
[16:30]	NonSequitur	Oh, speaking of stats, I think we've gotten ahead of ourselves, areyou familiar with the point buy method, Yes?
[16:30]	UserShadow7989	You can't bar Universal or Divination
[16:30]	UserShadow7989	Oh, right
[16:32]	UserShadow7989	You start with 8 in each attribute. Increasing it to 9, then 10, etc. up to 14 is 1 point for each increase. 15 and 16 are 2 points each, and 17 and 18 are 3 points each. Racial modifiers are applied afterwards. As a Wizard, you'll probably want a big fat 18 or as close to it as you can manage in Int, put the rest into Dex and Con, and bump Wis up to at least 10.
[16:32]	UserShadow7989	You also get a permanent +1 to any attribute every 4 levels regardless of character generating method
[16:33]	UserShadow7989	Not important now, but important to know for later
[16:35]	UserShadow7989	Skills are a bit of a headache in 3.5e; you get skill points at each level, and 4x the normal amount at first level. You can spend 1 skill point to get 1 skill rank in a class skill for whatever class you took at that level, or half a rank for a skill that isn't (I.E. a 'cross class skill'). The maximum number of ranks you can have in a skill is your total hit dice + 3 if it's a class skill...
[16:35]	UserShadow7989	...for any class you have levels in, and half that for any others.
[16:37]	NonSequitur	http://tools.digitalightbulb.com/pbcalc.html Someone was good enough to make a point buy calculator, obviously, we're using the D&D one.
[16:37]	Yes	I know of the point boy calculator basicall
[16:38]	Yes	buy
[16:38]	Yes	even
[16:40]	UserShadow7989	Skill Points per level are 2, 4, 6, or 8 + your intelligence modifier, depending on the class. Wizards are 2 + Int (likely chosen because you're expected to get a huge Int modifier)
[16:40]	UserShadow7989	Note that increases to Int aren't retroactive to your skill points; if your Intelligence jumps from 15 to 16, for example, you don't get +1 skill point for each prior level or anything of the sort
[16:41]	UserShadow7989	Unlike bonus hit points from constitution