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🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 14:51
?
what's happening?
enji - Today at 14:56
I put you in private-channel again because I think despite the last conversation here there is something that just isn't getting through.
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 14:57
What have I done in recent history because this time I'm seriously not sure why I'm here
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 15:03
Did I say something to Amber or Doggo?
Can I ask what in particular you want me to self-criticize for? Because I'm starting to feel anxious about this
enji - Today at 15:37
First I would like to apologise for the long delay. Something AFK came up as soon as I wanted to speak and I didn't have all the material collected and ready to present until now. You don't deserve to be left hanging.

Now onto the main matter: Okay so from what (remains of) the last conversation, you can tell that you were brought in for a pattern of passive aggression against multiple users. Multiple moderators are concerned that a similar pattern remains.

Notably:
1. A moderator noted your aggressive opposition to their insisting on moving a sexual assault discussion onto #cw-sensitive-discussion.
2. We noticed your taking over of a discussion about passing (as white) in #happy-that-time-spencer-got-punched-day that up to that point involved two non-white users. It went to the point of whitesplaining.
3. Related to this, none of those engaged in a discussion about African-American appropriation of other Africans' culture appreciated your butting-in. In fact, the conversation had to be moved to our PoC channel because of it.
4. In what another moderator said was indicative of a pattern, we noted your unnuanced comments in a discussion about New Age communities, in particular in the presence of someone participant in it.
5. In a separate issue, a moderator in #merry-hibmas had to delete a message making light of shooting an entire audience of folks that wasn't really warranted.

I guess the long and short of it is that we don't want to promote an environment where aggression against other users - passively or otherwise, butting negativity into discussions with great nuance, not taking into account who is involved, and unprovoked depictions of graphic violence. It jeopardizes the safety/security of individual users and the server as a whole. In this spirit, we were concerned about your behaviour as of late.

However, if there's something that we're not getting, then please let us now.
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 15:39
I definitely know what you're talking about for most of these points
And I'm sincerely sorry for that.
I'm sorry that I've barged into those conversations and dominated them
But I want to ask about two parts of this:
#1: I don't actually remember what happened with what you're talking about in the first point
I'm not doubting the veracity of that because I genuinely do not remember something along those lines and I just want to be reminded of what the details of that were
And can I ask which moderator brought this up? If the team doesn't want to divulge that for any like, fear of me being vindictive against them then that's completely okay
Speaking to the first point you've mentioned.
And also uhh
if Upholder is like, uncomfortable sometimes about the questions I've asked him
Because he's made jokes a couple of times about me being a cop because sometimes I cross the line of like question asking (for instance asking what he did as a particular job because it was related to another conversation)
then i apologize for that
He's never brought that up to me in private but my anxiety makes me think that he's trying to communicate to me indirectly that I'm being like, creepy or pushy
which i'm seriously sorry for
enji - Today at 15:48
As for clarifying #1 this was when it came out that Stan Lee was a sexual harasser.
this is the order to move
[https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/285868776031780874/404739090890752000/Screenshot_2018-01-21_at_15.46.30.png]
and this is what happened right after in #cw-sensitive-discussion
[https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/285868776031780874/404739142086426626/Screenshot_2018-01-21_at_15.45.17.png]

🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 15:49
Oh
I apologize for that, I was really worked up and what I said was not okay
Thank you for reminding me about that
UpholderOfAwokenMattHardy - Today at 15:55
hi MLR - re questions and personal information, I never worry about people asking friendly questions about me even if I don't want to answer them, however I am very concerend when newer and/or younger commies freely describe their own locations etc.
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 15:55
i see now
ok
well ok then uh
im sorry that i overshare
about my own location
UpholderOfAwokenMattHardy - Today at 15:56
it's your decision to do so but I always want to keep the general culture to be for people to not normally do that
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 15:56
yeah i understand now
I really hope that none of what I'm saying here right now sounds disingenuous in any way shape or form
because I'm being 100% serious right now
of me screwing up in
multiple different ways
and really abusing like
UpholderOfAwokenMattHardy - Today at 15:58
not at all! I respect you for talking to upfront about everything
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 15:58
my white privilege especially
That seems to be the largest issue in a plurality of em right here
enji - Today at 15:59
nah it doesn't. I was just about to ask - given that you acknowledge the issues, is there anything that you're thinking about that will help you prevent it? Is there anything we can suggest?
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 15:59
You mean to avoid issues especially like 2 and 3?
well ok um
enji - Today at 15:59
yes that's what I'm thinking of
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 15:59
I had one more thing
that i wanted to ask about
about 4
and that is um
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 16:00
I suppose that it wasn't particularly backed up
what I was saying about New Age people but also like
mccarthy's final response was particularly passive-aggressive
and sure i can dish but absolutely cannot take
from what i'm seeing here especially
but it seems like that was a continuation of aggression there
and im not trying to shift blame at all
but that was genuinely kind of upsetting
enji - Today at 16:01
Okay so mccarthy would like to specifically address your comments on #4
just want to let you know so you don't get dogpiled
comrade mccarthy - Today at 16:02
that wasn't intended to be passive aggressive at all, i was point blank and i think more overtly aggressively telling you to shut up
and i'm sorry for that kind of a reaction
but i did not react that way because your response was not backed up, i reacted that way because it was racist erasure
this in particular
[https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/285868776031780874/404742957892370433/unknown.png]
when you recognize that a bulk of this community is one of people who have had their ancestral traditions intentionally stripped from them and are filling the gaps using this kind of thing it is upsetting to hear that there is nothing "particularly interesting" about it
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 16:04
I was thinking of white new age people
which seemed to be the particularly problematic like, thing there
comrade mccarthy - Today at 16:05
oh yeah for sure
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 16:05
Did it come off like I was harshing on people trying to recover stolen traditions? Because I wasn't trying to do that at all
I'm sorry for that
I didn't realize that that was what it sounded like to people in the server
comrade mccarthy - Today at 16:06
i think the lack of specificity is what does it
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 16:06
I suppose I probably shouldn't have said anything at all
past supporting about how racist the initial topic thing was
comrade mccarthy - Today at 16:07
i think enji described it well in what she said about a lack of nuance, which is ultimately why it comes across as erasure
after we talked about the racist deck i said something like "its not like white new agers are known for their antiracism"
and thats fine to talk about like its fine to talk about the problematic elements of the community
but when we refer to (and this is why i took your comments as erasure) the entirety of the community as being problematic and especially racist in this way that's when the erasure happens
like there was no specificity of whiteness it was a condemnation of what i perceived to be the community at large
i dont know if other people perceived it tht way but my proximity to that community certainly made me feel some type of way about it
i shouldnt have responded so aggressively though
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 16:11
tbh i shouldnt be concerned with aggression from you or anyone else
probably because im the most aggressive one in this discord
so
i dont think you really need to like apologize for that
enji - Today at 16:17
okay so I'm just waiting to see if anybody else would like to address specific points
if nothing happens within the next few minutes I'll do a wrap-up
is that alright with you? @🔫🔫🔫💰
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 16:18
just like asking the mod-team if there's anything else they want to address? that's fine
um im trying to think of
enji - Today at 16:19
yh
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 16:19
anything that doesn't fall under what's been mentioned here before
i suppose uh
different forms of performativism, just based on the perspective of any moderators here
that's a more difficult subject it seems to me because its like
hard to gauge intention
and i wanna know if
any of yall think there's been anything performative in my behavior in recent memory
and if you want to talk to me about that then that's good
And to answer your question about going forward and ways to avoid this kind of aggression from me
I suppose that's difficult because i think in a couple of these instances it was related to external stuff and then i took it out on other people in this server
especially for #1 I was very angry and frustrated in reality
Whereas when it comes to things about dominating conversations and whitesplaining
that sorta stuff
i think it's best in the future for me to avoid bringing up questions especially if the context is like
stating a racist thing that happened like the tarot deck in this case
and it'd probably be best for me to avoid trying to
make some sort of discourse out of that
enji - Today at 16:23
i mean it's okay for you to start these anti-racist discussions but you just have to remember that the voices of racialised peoples need to be centred in them
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 16:25
idk im still wary of trying to do that
in the future
enji - Today at 16:25
in a (i guess analogous?) manner I sort of think out loud about issues re: indigenous struggles but then always stop quick when going into territory I can't comment on/steer convos on
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 16:25
because i always well, feel fake trying to bring that sort of conversation up
enji - Today at 16:26
if that's how you feel then I'd avoid them, yes. but I think it's feasible in general.
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 16:26
thats just anxiety and that doesn't really have anything to do with this server or people in it
not your problem
enji - Today at 16:26
ah
so we have a strategy for not dominating anti-racist discussions. anything we can do about blunt stuff like that metal slug stuff in #merry-hibmas?
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 16:28
probably just not comment on it
enji - Today at 16:42
to wrap up I'll reiterate the points we covered today:
1. We need to take nuance into account when initiating/entering conversations.
2. Those most affected by the content/implications/consequences of a conversation must be centred in that conversation.
3. (For the sake of security culture,) we need to be aware of how our most violent comments will be used against us all.

Additionally, here is one more thing:
4. Tone does not make one correct or incorrect, but it can promote a positive or negative environment depending on what the tone is and the context it's found in. I think an overarching problem is that the server's users like to take on blunt comments and this inclination may result in negative tones. You're clearly not the only one involved in this so this is more server wide but I think that the examples we went through today involve the intersection of other problems we hashed out and this tendency towards being blunt and intense - in particular the New Age conversation and the move of Stan Lee's accusations to #cw-sensitive-discussion. We need to take account of which tones to take on and when they are appropriate.(edited)
Since you said yourself that some of these issues occurred when you were agitated either by AFK stuff or the development of convos it's especially important to take care then.
@🔫🔫🔫💰 any final thoughts?
🔫🔫🔫💰 - Today at 16:47
As far as I know
unless there's anything else that comes to any of the mods' minds
I don't really have any further questions and what you've laid out sounds really good
in terms of what I should be doing
to avoid being aggressive or unthoughtful towards people
server or non
enji - Today at 16:48
that's a good way of summing it up.
i'm not getting anything new from the mods so I will restore your roles now