B101 R91

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-201472683

[17:43:46] +trinitrotoluene: hello?
[17:43:49] Wheezer: this is gettting really annoying
[17:43:51] Wheezer: k
[17:43:54] Wheezer: let me try again
[17:44:01] Wheezer: Turn 1: I led w/ zard y, because i knew you would lead w/ skarm. I used solar beam because i knew you had sturdy, and i wanted to break it w/ a move that wouldnt miss.
[17:44:11] +trinitrotoluene: fair point.
[17:44:16] Wheezer: Turn 2-4: I used FIre Blast to kill skarm
[17:44:22] +trinitrotoluene: mm.
[17:44:34] +trinitrotoluene: hax was a bitch to you during those turns though.
[17:45:15] Wheezer: turn 5: i tried to trap gengar w/ pursuit, so I wouldn't have to worry about it later w/ my limited switch ins, and i hoped you wouldn't try to predict and use focus blast
[17:45:33] Wheezer: well, I knew you had sturdy from last time
[17:45:34] Wheezer: so i wanted to break that
[17:45:34] Wheezer: oh, before that
[17:45:35] Wheezer: i led with char y because i knew you would lead w/ skarm
[17:45:36] Wheezer: i didn't really consider you doulbling out tho
[17:45:38] Wheezer: anyways, i broke sturdy w/ solar beam so i didn't have to rely on fire blast hittling, then, i planned on using fire blast the next turn, and hoped it hit
[17:45:39] Wheezer: oh
[17:45:41] Wheezer: there it goes
[17:45:44] Wheezer: sorry
[17:45:50] +trinitrotoluene: np.
[17:45:58] +trinitrotoluene: i'm doing this because i want to see your thought process.
[17:46:07] Wheezer: k
[17:47:03] Wheezer: turn 6: i wanted to save ttar for later so i sacced zardy, because i knew i wouldn't be able to defog with bisharp around
[17:47:28] +trinitrotoluene: what keld were you running?
[17:47:35] Wheezer: specs
[17:47:46] Wheezer: i think im gonna change it to scarf
[17:47:48] +trinitrotoluene: and i'm assuming your tar was scarf, right?
[17:47:52] Wheezer: ya
[17:47:55] Wheezer: oh wait
[17:47:56] Wheezer: nvm
[17:48:04] Wheezer: i'm not gonna change keld to scarf
[17:48:13] Wheezer: anyways
[17:48:15] +trinitrotoluene: honestly, you could have afforded to defog.
[17:48:35] Wheezer: could I/
[17:49:14] Wheezer: +2 252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 153-180 (47.3 - 55.7%) -- 77% chance to 2HKO
[17:49:14] +trinitrotoluene: you had 2 reliable bisharp checks (scarftar, keld), so me getting to +2 shouldn't have worried you.
[17:49:21] Wheezer: ya
[17:49:24] Wheezer: i guess
[17:49:32] Wheezer: because if i got lati in
[17:49:36] Wheezer: sacked it w/ defog
[17:49:46] Wheezer: brought in keld
[17:50:15] +trinitrotoluene: this would have let you keep zard-y, which basically got a kill every time it switched in.
[17:50:18] Wheezer: although i don't see what char-y could have done
[17:50:38] +trinitrotoluene: zard-y gets a kill each time it comes in.
[17:50:41] Wheezer: because everything else after bish beats char y 1v1
[17:51:04] +trinitrotoluene: fair point.
[17:51:06] Wheezer: but i could bring it in on bish if you switched out on keld
[17:51:14] Wheezer: well, not switch in
[17:52:05] Wheezer: turn 7: i thought i went for stone edge, which i think i should have done
[17:52:13] Wheezer: because you wouldn't keep lop in at minus one
[17:52:27] Wheezer: and you wouldn't want azu to come in
[17:53:26] Wheezer: idk
[17:53:30] +trinitrotoluene: in turn 7, i was expecting u-turn to happen, so i brought in thundy, the least valuable member of my team, to stomach it.
[17:53:48] Wheezer: k
[17:54:14] +trinitrotoluene: so, was there any particular rhyme or reason for clicking eq?
[17:54:17] +trinitrotoluene: or was it a misclick?
[17:54:39] Wheezer: no, it was a misclick
[17:54:41] +trinitrotoluene: ok.
[17:54:53] Wheezer: turn 8: i don't remember why i went to ttar
[17:55:14] +trinitrotoluene: scarftar outruns thundy and can kill w/ edge?
[17:55:24] Wheezer: oh ya
[17:55:48] Wheezer: i was thinking of something else
[17:56:25] Wheezer: turn 9: i was hoping you didn't have ice punch
[17:56:41] Wheezer: or at least didn't go for it
[17:57:06] Wheezer: maybe i should have sacked latios though
[17:58:27] +trinitrotoluene: was lando another scarfer?
[17:58:32] Wheezer: ya
[18:00:50] +trinitrotoluene: .
[18:01:02] Wheezer: oh
[18:01:05] Wheezer: thought you were gonna say something
[18:01:17] Wheezer: turn 10: i went to ferro predicting azu
[18:01:17] +trinitrotoluene: nah.
[18:01:37] +trinitrotoluene: oh.
[18:02:16] Wheezer: turn 11-12: i was just trying to play around thundurus, so i went to latios when you went into bisharp
[18:03:20] +trinitrotoluene: did you switch into lati because of thund and the possibility of focus blast?
[18:03:38] Wheezer: ya
[18:04:25] Wheezer: because i could live hp ice after focus blast and rocks as long as you didn't get 2 high rolls
[18:04:45] +trinitrotoluene: turn 13: you switched into keld because of bisharp
[18:04:55] Wheezer: ya
[18:05:12] Wheezer: then i just tried to play around bisharp the rest of the battle
[18:05:18] Wheezer: but it didn't work out
[18:05:38] +trinitrotoluene: fair enough.
[18:06:32] +trinitrotoluene: based on our battle, you have the basics down pat, but you sometimes struggle to make good decisions during the game.
[18:06:58] Wheezer: ya
[18:07:57] Wheezer: i think i have a bit of a problem looking ahead into the battle instead of just thinking about what's in front of me
[18:08:08] Wheezer: and identifying win cons
[18:08:17] +trinitrotoluene: alright.
[18:10:50] +trinitrotoluene: so, what do you want to work on now? team building, battling? give me a bone here.
[18:10:57] Wheezer: battling
[18:11:13] +trinitrotoluene: alright.
[18:11:14] +trinitrotoluene: .
[18:11:19] Wheezer: i think thats a bit more important than teambuilding
[18:11:26] +trinitrotoluene: get a team ready and chall me.
[18:11:28] Wheezer: k

game plan: knock off rotom-w w/ tornt, get tornt in a lot, get keld in a lot, have switchins to gengar, try to keep it off the field, opp has no defogger

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-201483921

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-201493401

[19:02:20] Wheezer: sorry I'm late
[19:02:26] Wheezer: I had some issues getting on showdown
[19:02:48] +trinitrotoluene~☆: np. showdown! lags like a bitch for me too.

TRINITROTOLUENE: ok, so you wanted to focus on balance, right?
18:31 Wheezer: ya
18:32 TRINITROTOLUENE: ok.
18:32 TRINITROTOLUENE: unlike hyper offense, there's not really a set number of roles that have to be fit on balance.
18:33 TRINITROTOLUENE: however, there usually is a good number of things you'll want to have on your balance team.
18:35 Wheezer: k
18:35 TRINITROTOLUENE: the things i listed above are good things to have on your team.
18:35 TRINITROTOLUENE: so, any mons you want to work with?
18:36 Wheezer: Mega Scizor
18:36 Wheezer: Char Y works too
18:36 Wheezer: but i kind of like mega scizor better
18:36 TRINITROTOLUENE: alright.
18:37 TRINITROTOLUENE: paste the mega scizor set you want to use here and we'll use that as a springboard.
18:39 Wheezer: the EVs might be outdated because I just took the on off the analysis
18:39 Wheezer: but they look fine to me
18:39 TRINITROTOLUENE: the evs should be ok.
18:39 Wheezer: k
18:41 TRINITROTOLUENE: so, what beats scizor?
18:42 TRINITROTOLUENE: let's figure that out first.
18:44 Wheezer: Heatran, Tflame, Rotom-W, both Zards, mag, skarm, mega sableye, mega venu, SD bisharp can set up on it, mega gyara, zapdos
18:47 TRINITROTOLUENE: mm.
18:48 Wheezer: mandibuzz too
18:53 TRINITROTOLUENE: so, m-scizor is your main sweeper, right?
18:54 Wheezer: ya
18:55 TRINITROTOLUENE: alright, now that you've listed that, i'd like to go into the topic of frameworks a little bit.
18:56 TRINITROTOLUENE: while balance doesn't have as detailed a framework as offense, it still has a few ideas that it would like to have.
18:57 TRINITROTOLUENE: anyways, we have the sweeper checked off.
18:58 TRINITROTOLUENE: what do you think about having heatran as the team's next member?
18:59 Wheezer: sure
19:00 TRINITROTOLUENE: i'll let you determine what heatran should run.
19:02 Wheezer: what does Heatran run speed for?
19:02 Wheezer: the spdef set
19:03 TRINITROTOLUENE: 68 speed was the standard, iirc.
19:03 Wheezer: k
19:05 TRINITROTOLUENE: don't forget the item.
19:05 Wheezer: I was thinkin of running a bulkier set instead of an Offensive one because Scizor is also a bulkier set
19:05 Wheezer: instead of Offensive SD
19:06 TRINITROTOLUENE: alright. 2 mons down, 4 to go.
19:07 TRINITROTOLUENE: as it stands, the team would probably appreciate some water resists.
19:07 Wheezer: ya
19:07 TRINITROTOLUENE: what are your thoughts on this predicament?
19:08 Wheezer: If we run Latios we could use it as a defogger + Keldeo check
19:09 Wheezer: or maybe just use a water type ourselves like Keldeo as a stallbreaker
19:09 Wheezer: i mean wallbreaker
19:09 TRINITROTOLUENE: alright.
19:11 TRINITROTOLUENE: what do you want to go with?
19:11 Wheezer: I don't know what keld set to run though
19:13 Wheezer: Specs or SubCM
19:13 TRINITROTOLUENE: let's try out specs first then.
19:13 Wheezer: k
19:13 TRINITROTOLUENE: we can always edit things later.
19:13 TRINITROTOLUENE: this gives the team its breaker, which is nice.
19:14 Wheezer: oops
19:14 TRINITROTOLUENE: the hp flying keldeo. not bad :]
19:14 Wheezer: k
19:14 Wheezer: thx
19:15 Wheezer: but we do have Heatran for venu
19:15 TRINITROTOLUENE: true, but heatran isn't that stronk.
19:15 Wheezer: so Icy WInd/HP Electric could work instead
19:16 TRINITROTOLUENE: alright. make the changes you feel are necessary.
19:16 TRINITROTOLUENE: but for now, i'd keep hp flying.
19:16 Wheezer: k
19:18 Wheezer: what about Scarf landot now?
19:18 TRINITROTOLUENE: yea, we do need a speed mon.
19:18 Wheezer: it is a ground resist, electric resist, fighting resist, and a flying check
19:19 TRINITROTOLUENE: if you think it'll work, then let's try it out.
19:21 TRINITROTOLUENE: hey, since mega gyarados poses a threat to the team so far, how about superpower over knock off?
19:21 Wheezer: ok
19:23 TRINITROTOLUENE: mm, we need another water resist and fire resist now.
19:24 TRINITROTOLUENE: what do you think about latias?
19:24 Wheezer: ya
19:26 Wheezer: do you think we should run Roost
19:26 Wheezer: because rn we have no other Keld switch ins
19:27 TRINITROTOLUENE: if you think that helps, then yea, run it.
19:28 Wheezer: k
19:29 Wheezer: so now we need another utility one?
19:29 Wheezer: or pivot?
19:29 TRINITROTOLUENE: i'd argue that latios is a utility mon.
19:31 Wheezer: k
19:35 TRINITROTOLUENE: so, looking at the team, are there any threats that immediately come to mind?
19:36 Wheezer: um
19:37 Wheezer: mixed mega altaria w/ 3 attacks roost
19:37 Wheezer: maybe azumarill
19:38 Wheezer: gengar
19:38 Wheezer: actually, gengar isn't that big of a problem
19:40 Wheezer: banded dragonite
19:41 Wheezer: i don't really see anything else
19:42 Wheezer: maybe the team could use a back up birdspam check
19:46 TRINITROTOLUENE: how about rotom-w?
19:46 Wheezer: ya
19:46 Wheezer: that seems good
19:47 TRINITROTOLUENE: i feel that this closes up the team rather well.
19:48 Wheezer: k
19:49 TRINITROTOLUENE: ah, nb.
19:49 TRINITROTOLUENE: what are you creeping with your rotom-w's speed evs?
19:53 TRINITROTOLUENE: .
19:55 Wheezer: other Rotom-W
19:56 Wheezer: idk
19:56 TRINITROTOLUENE: creeping other rotom-w is a bad idea.
19:56 TRINITROTOLUENE: this gives them the advantage in mirror matches.
19:56 Wheezer: k
19:58 TRINITROTOLUENE: alright.
19:58 TRINITROTOLUENE: now that the team is done, let's do some testing.
20:07 Wheezer: k
Chat:

from ctc's team building compendium: try to fit 2 water resists, 1-2 fight resists, 1-2 dragon resists(or an immunity), a flying check, an electric check or 2 resists, 2 ground resists or immunities (at least 1 not bypassed by mold breaker) and a dark resist

example of balance framework: sweeper / speed / utility x2 / pivot / breaker

team building below:

scizor / landoge / heatran / latios / pivot / keldeo

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 192 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Protect
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 24 Def / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Superpower

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Defog
- Roost

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Wheezer: hey
%trinitrotoluene: yo.
%trinitrotoluene: did you get a list of problems together?
Wheezer: ya
Wheezer: azumarill is kind of hard to switch into
Wheezer: if zor isn't megad
Wheezer: Zard Y teams are hard because you have to watch for the pursuit trap on lati
Wheezer: it has a small problem with stall
%trinitrotoluene: ok.
%trinitrotoluene: what's been the least effective member of your team so far?
Wheezer: probably Rotom-W
Wheezer: I feel like everything it does, someone else on the team can already do well enough
%trinitrotoluene: anyways, this is the perfect time to talk a bit about editing.
Wheezer: k
%trinitrotoluene: you see that list of problems you've given me? let's find solutions to them.
%trinitrotoluene: first off, your biggest problem was azumarill, right?
Wheezer: ya
%trinitrotoluene: ok. how about slowbro over rotom-w?
Wheezer: alright
%trinitrotoluene: i'd normally suggest ferrothorn, but this adds an even larger fighting weak to the team.
Wheezer: k
%trinitrotoluene: hang on. i'm going to do a calc or two.
Wheezer: sure
%trinitrotoluene: also, you mentioned that stall gave you trouble, right?
Wheezer: ya
Wheezer: ?
Wheezer: u there?
%trinitrotoluene: oh, sorry. i was taking care of business.
%trinitrotoluene: anyways, i did a few calcs to see if av bro was something that you could use to check zard, but it's not a thing.
Wheezer: k
%trinitrotoluene: now, let's move on to the next problem you listed.
%trinitrotoluene: i don't think that zard-y is too large an issue for you because you can outplay it anyways w/ latios and heatran, so let's focus on the stall problem.
Wheezer: alirght
%trinitrotoluene: so, for your team, you have scarf landoge and specs keldeo, right?
Wheezer: ya
%trinitrotoluene: ok.
%trinitrotoluene: try out a calm mind landorus over landoge and scarf keldeo over specs keldeo.
Wheezer: ok
%trinitrotoluene: now, i feel that i should explain a couple of things.
Wheezer: what attacks should i use on lando?
Wheezer: ep/focus blast/psychic?
%trinitrotoluene: for lando, cm / earth power / focus blast / psychic.
Wheezer: k
%trinitrotoluene: these last 3 changes i suggested are all large changes.
Wheezer: so pokemon and complete set changes are large changes then?
%trinitrotoluene: basically, these are complete pokemon / moveset replacements that change the way the pokemon / team slot operates.
Wheezer: k
%trinitrotoluene: i don't like suggesting large changes willy-nilly, but if they seem like they'd work, they work.
%trinitrotoluene: *they should work.
%trinitrotoluene: thanks to the rotom -> slowbro change, you now have a bulkier fighting resist, which is always good.
%trinitrotoluene: this allowed you to make the lando-t -> lando-genie change, which should help your stall problems a little bit.
Wheezer: that makes sense
%trinitrotoluene: somewhat unrelated, but these definitions of "large change" and "small change" also apply to my team rating philosophy.
Wheezer: what is your team rating philosophy?
%trinitrotoluene: basically, i'll try to stick to small changes and avoid making large changes unless i'm rather certain they'll improve the team.
Wheezer: only or less than a certain amount of large changes?
Wheezer: k
Wheezer: ya, I that makes sense
%trinitrotoluene: the reason i shy away from these large changes is because there's a good chance of them destroying a team's synergy and detracting from the goal of the team.
Wheezer: alright
%trinitrotoluene: in contrast, small changes are those that optimize the team to deal with some threats better.
%trinitrotoluene: examples of small changes include item changes (e.g.: life orb -> lum berry on ddnite), or individual move changes (e.g.: scald -> surf on manaphy to get the guaranteed 2hko on pdef unaware clefable).
%trinitrotoluene: sorry for getting a little off-track, but do my definitions regarding small and large changes make sense?
Wheezer: ya
%trinitrotoluene: anyways, let's give these changes a whirl on the ladder.
Wheezer: http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-ou-204834026
%trinitrotoluene: ah, nice n mexican slowbro :]
Wheezer: :]
%trinitrotoluene: scald's a ko.
Wheezer: k
Wheezer: lel, i accidentally had assault vest on mega metagross
%trinitrotoluene: LOL
%trinitrotoluene: so, how are the changes?
Wheezer: fine
Wheezer: i felt that lando was a bit too slow and frail to do anything that battle
Wheezer: i probably didn't deserve that win tbh
%trinitrotoluene: mm.
%trinitrotoluene: kinda unrelated, but is there any subforum on smogon you want to get more involved in?
Wheezer: well, I was actually starting to do a bit more tournaments now
Wheezer: but other than that
%trinitrotoluene: ah, that's good.
Wheezer: I was kind of looking to Rate teams
Wheezer: but I don't feel like I should do that
Wheezer: until I et a bit better
%trinitrotoluene: ah, team rating is fun.
Wheezer: get8
%trinitrotoluene: you don't need to be a tournaments don to rate teams.
Wheezer: ik
Wheezer: i was saying i should get to know a bit more about team building
%trinitrotoluene: ah, makes sense.
Wheezer: so i was just planning on practicing making teams
Wheezer: and testing them out to make changes
%trinitrotoluene: but the best way to get better at team rates is to actually get out there and rate teams.
Wheezer: k
%trinitrotoluene: yea, some people may not like the suggestions that you'll offer, but don't get discouraged by them
%trinitrotoluene: there's always going to be a few dickweeds who don't take constructive criticism well.
Wheezer: ya, i understand what you mean
Wheezer: I didn't really want to make changes to my teams that other people suggested at first
Wheezer: like using Chansey over Blissey
Wheezer: and stuff like that
%trinitrotoluene: anyways, a bit more on editing before i go: don't use editing as a knee-jerk reaction to something that just recently beat you.
Wheezer: k
%trinitrotoluene: only make changes once you're certain you have a weakness on your hands rather than a problem with your plays.
Wheezer: I think I kind that's what I struggle with when making teams
Wheezer: I kind
%trinitrotoluene: oh, trust me. i have problems with that too sometimes.
%trinitrotoluene: your homework is to test out the edits to your team and come back to me with some results.
%trinitrotoluene: later.
Wheezer: ok
Wheezer: see ya

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 192 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Defog
- Roost

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Thunder Wave
- Psyshock

Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Calm Mind