* Now talking on #goofbandiscussion
<CitrusGender> There we go.
<CitrusGender> That was a lot easier than I remembered.
<Iamgoofball> hg and oranges are on the way
<CitrusGender> Well, HG isn't exactly an official admin.
<CitrusGender> So I'm a bit confused as to why he'd need to be here.
<Iamgoofball> HG is involved here and will be involved with this discussion.
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<CitrusGender> Sure.
<CitrusGender> The main reason why I contacted you is that I decided that it probably would be a good idea to give you an appeal.
<CitrusGender> You can choose to use that appeal or not, we're still going to decide on the situation.
<CitrusGender> But I thought I would give that offer.
<Iamgoofball> As of right now I cannot accept nothing less than a full apology and an unban seeing as I was framed and drug through the coals for a dox that not only did not occur, but the supposed victim has asked for the ban to not be handed out over
<Iamgoofball> All because ausops was not willing to discuss the real ban reason.
<Iamgoofball> As it stands right now, I've
<Iamgoofball> brb 1 sec
<CitrusGender> That's fine, I can understand that.
<CitrusGender> Actually, I'll probably see if we can wait for MSO as well.
<Iamgoofball> aight, abck
<Iamgoofball> comcast has been dicking my internet over at 12, along with a few other neighbors in my apartment complex, so if I disappear for a few minutes around then that is why
* Iamgoofball gives channel operator status to hornygranny
<CitrusGender> Yeah that's fine.
<CitrusGender> MSO is ussually up at this time.
<CitrusGender> But he's kinda only popped in at random times at night.
<Iamgoofball> i've informed him and given him the channel
<CitrusGender> Aight. I'll see if I can get ahold of him.
<CitrusGender> The last time that something happened without informing the other headmins/host, it kinda lead to the situation that we have right now.
<CitrusGender> So it probably would be a good idea to have another headmin/host here before I can make a decision.
<Iamgoofball> Of course. The only morally acceptable decision at this point is a full unban and apology at minimum, immediate dismissal of ausops as best case because of the fact this is the third time this month that they have given a community member a heavyhanded punishment for critiquing admin handling of situations. First anon, then threatening PMs to starmute, then banning myself and switching the reason 3 times to avoid
<Iamgoofball> admitting the real one.
<hornygranny> i don't consider an appeal appropriate because at this point i haven't seen conclusive evidence that goof has actually done anything that wasn't handled previously
<Iamgoofball> That too. The 2nd and 3rd ban "reasons" were all over things that either didn't occur or I already talked with MSO to begin with.
<CitrusGender> Well, the idea behind why it wasn't handled was because, from my understanding, the previous administrative team decided to not pursue it out of fear of retribution of the victim.
<CitrusGender> So essentially they choose to not say anything.
<CitrusGender> And, unfortunately, the decided to enforce it now.
<CitrusGender> they*
<hornygranny> i haven't seen evidence that that's true
<hornygranny> on the other hand, i've seen a lot of evidence pointing to the "victim" never being doxed and not being concerned
<CitrusGender> Well, it was what they said to me. It was a concern with the threat of doxxing and that was their reasoning for pursuing it. Ultimately situation like that would preferably be dealt with when they occur instead of 2 months later.
<CitrusGender> Obviously what we've had to decided right now is whether or not the threat was legitimate.
<Iamgoofball> The kicker here, was it ausops who gave you all this information or did the other headmins confirm it?
<CitrusGender> Well
<Iamgoofball> other ex headmins, anyways
<CitrusGender> Forgive me goofball
<CitrusGender> But of the last three headmins, one just resigned, one is the banning admin, and one wants nothing to do with this.
<Iamgoofball> so the only ex-headmin from that admin who raised this as an issue to you guys is the banning admin?
<Iamgoofball> *from that admin headmin triumvate
<CitrusGender> He took the situation into his own hands.
<Iamgoofball> acting as judge, jury, and executioner
<Iamgoofball> amazing
<CitrusGender> That's not to say that there haven't been mistakes on our part. A similar situation happened previously. The time difference that you're seeing between the initial ban and now is because of the resignation of a headmin and all three remaining players having different timezones.
<CitrusGender> So that's why we're here three days later and I've kinda had to go on my own whim to reach out to all of you.
<hornygranny> i'll be nice about this because you don't seem as dumb as rustledjimm
<CitrusGender> I appreciate it. I don't like having stuff hang around like all of this.
<hornygranny> this is a really easy problem to avoid: require evidence beforehand when removing people from the community
<hornygranny> especially a veteran member with close to 1000 PRs
<Iamgoofball> the bonus question of the night, why did you back ausops when the justification was so flimsy to begin with? a single screencap alongside the reported victim saying that not only did nothing happen but the ban was a mistake doesnt exactly good evidence make
<hornygranny> whether or not goof acted inappropriately in the pass doesn't even really matter, since it's apparent ausops was acting in bad faith
<CitrusGender> What do you mean bring back ausops?
<hornygranny> in the pst
<Iamgoofball> back ausops, not bring back
<CitrusGender> ah, excuse me.
<CitrusGender> Well, from the discussion that we had with the gamemasters: There was unanimous agreeing that the threat, whether or not it was stated in the heat of the moment, was worded in such a way that it threatened the victim's real life job.
<Iamgoofball> the key thing here is that there was no threat, and I just misworded somethinng and didn't append "from admin" to the word "fired" because in context of the discussion, it very clearly was already implied
<Iamgoofball> because i dont type coherent sentences when I am angry
<hornygranny> you never do
<hornygranny> go search for fired on discord and you'll find plenty of uses in the context of 2d spaceman management
<CitrusGender> Aye, I understand that might have been the case. But look at how we have to see it as leaders of this community. Saying "You're either getting deadmined or you're getting fired for CP"
<CitrusGender> kinda implies that there's a difference between getting deadmined and fring
<CitrusGender> firing*
<CitrusGender> It's the "or" statement there.
<CitrusGender> Why would you say fired from admin again?
<Iamgoofball> and I can see that, but when the next part of the discussion includes someone going "hey did you mean you're doxxing him" and the follow up is "fuck no"
<hornygranny> this topic is a red herring
<hornygranny> it's explicitly clear from the followup to that quote that sawrge was never at risk
<Iamgoofball> because i dont type coherent sentences when I am mad and I was very mad about sawrge getting off scot free with the meteors shit and then claiming "lol i let someone else onto my account so im nnot to blame"
<hornygranny> and he will attest to that
<CitrusGender> I'm sorry goof, I don't really know you too well.
<Iamgoofball> https://file.house/j9cV.png
<Iamgoofball> https://file.house/1xek.png my convos with sawrge about this
<CitrusGender> Yeah, I saw the conversations.
<hornygranny> the facts are very simple
<hornygranny> you understandably listened to a veteran admin, who had a grudge and wanted someone gone
<Iamgoofball> you got duped, bro
<hornygranny> unfortunately, when the truth came out, rather than addressing the situation, the three of you kept silent and pulled up the drawbridge
<hornygranny> now that it's transparent that ausops has been acting in bad faith the entire time, you need to make the situation right
<CitrusGender> Er, it's more that we had to deal with two headmins who didn't know anything about goof for a rule 1/0 ban that would require understanding of the individual's actions in the community.
<CitrusGender> And MSO, but as it stands: MSO has only played an auxiliary rule during the course of this unbanning.
<hornygranny> and instead of consulting the community or anyone who does know him, you took ausops at face value
<hornygranny> calling goof a community member worthy of rule 0/1 exclusion doesn't pass the sniff test
<hornygranny> if it was that simple, this situation would not be this way
<CitrusGender> Yeah, to be honest: A lot of the arguing as to the legitimacy of the ban has just been mostly hatred put against the opposing parties for believing what they bleieve in.
<CitrusGender> For a rule 0/1 ban, there isn't much discussion upon actual circumstances other than the one that was leaked.
<CitrusGender> As in, I don't know much about you goof.
<hornygranny> because it's a facade
<hornygranny> i completely understand why many people do not like goof, why they don't like oranges, or why they don't like me
<Iamgoofball> hg is right, there is a reason that all the old players who hate my guts popped out of the woodworks to object to this ban
<hornygranny> that doesn't merit excluding any of us from the community, or dismissing our contributions as being made in bad faith
<hornygranny> "goof is shit" is an opinion, not a fact, and you have to base such heavy handed punishments in fact
<CitrusGender> Well, I understand. The key point here is time. The actual discussion of whether or not this is a rule 1/0 ban has not been discussed in full length by the banning admin: which I agree is a problem.
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<CitrusGender> rip
<hornygranny> lol
<CitrusGender> oh there we go
<CitrusGender> is he gone or here
<hornygranny> i think he's gone
<CitrusGender> aight, I'll wait. I'm trying to get MSO.
<CitrusGender> if you can see, I'm trying to say MSO hasn't been around much without saying that since I don't want to disrespect him.
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<CitrusGender> MSO does a lot for this community.
<Iamgoofball> yeah
<hornygranny> because this is on the very edges of his mandate
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<goof_fuckcomcast> I can't log w/ mobile
<goof_fuckcomcast> Can you keep logs please
<hornygranny> according to the system we put in place after he took over for errorage and scaredofshadows, he shouldn't have to deal with this
<CitrusGender> Aye, it's all good. Yeah I can keep logs.
<CitrusGender> Aye, it was definitely a ban that was made in the heat of the momment over previous statements made in the heat of the momment and an overall hatred of a specific individual.
<hornygranny> whether or not goof's previous actions merit this isn't even in question because of the approach taken by ausops
<goof_fuckcomcast> ausops is not fit to retain admin if they cannot remain as unbiased as possible or be honest with fellow administration members
<CitrusGender> This will indeed come into question, especially with the starmute situation.
<hornygranny> the starmute situation is deplorable
<hornygranny> i would have dismissed them for that alone in one of my terms
<goof_fuckcomcast> and the anon one, even if mso already cleaned that up
<goof_fuckcomcast> timbrewolf as you know them
<hornygranny> how is that you can get fired for giving yourself changeling one time in the game
<hornygranny> but you can get away with threatening a community member with expulsion for disagreeing with you?
<hornygranny> the core mandate of the administration is to make sure the game is fun for the players
<CitrusGender> Because I think everything can be framed a certain way depending on the way information that was given.
<CitrusGender> Aye.
<hornygranny> ausops has taken twisted that beyond recognition by the way he's been handling out of game events
<CitrusGender> rather, how the information was given*
<hornygranny> i don't even like starmute, i think they have been a troublemaker in the past
<hornygranny> but you can't treat people that way
<CitrusGender> Aye, I agree. You're not going to hear me talk otherwise about that.
<CitrusGender> It was shit.
<CitrusGender> I've seen it, I looked at it: I don't like it.
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<CitrusGender> kek
<hornygranny> poor goof
<goof_fuckcomcast2> fuck Comcast 2 electric boogaloo
<hornygranny> the question remains: what are you going to do about it?
<hornygranny> i don't expect an answer now, but you need to figure it out
<goof_fuckcomcast2> will we make it to fuck Comcast 3: the search for more bandwidth
<CitrusGender> Well, I think a half asleep Rustled is messaging me right now.
<CitrusGender> And I'd imagine MSO is stoned.
<goof_fuckcomcast2> He's not stoned by now, he does his work when he is stoned
<CitrusGender> Uh, I won't decide to unban anyone at this current time since (as I have said before) a hastily done unbanning will likely cause more problems.
<hornygranny> don't do anything without 2/3rds of you agreeing
<CitrusGender> I thought you might have appreciate the chance to appeal since it would give you a chance to get your opinion out there.
<goof_fuckcomcast2> so he'll probably hit the bong tomorrow afternoon and join
<CitrusGender> It's not so much I'm doing it as an insult
<CitrusGender> I just think that it would be relevant.
<hornygranny> i encourage you to base your consensus decision in the spirit of the founding of our community 8 years ago
<CitrusGender> Aye. That's that basis of how we make all our decisions.
<goof_fuckcomcast2> the problem with that is that opinions don't need to be out there, hard facts do, and right now if I go public ausops will go for the obvious emergency button of "spread the dox claims as far as possible so reactionaries will pick it up and run with it despite no proof"
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<hornygranny> i don't think so, or this wouldn't have happened
<CitrusGender> Sorry, when I say we
<CitrusGender> I meant me, Rustled, and MSO
<hornygranny> "ss13 is a fun game, and people should be able to play it without being singled out for their differences by the admins"
<CitrusGender> Well, he didn't spread them quickly.
<CitrusGender> Nor did any of us.
<goof_fuckcomcast2> not yet
<goof_fuckcomcast2> because it worked better to just attempt to disappear me from here
<goof_fuckcomcast2> ausops has proven they won't admit the real reason and a cornered opponent is the most dangerous
<CitrusGender> Again yes, I agree that no actual reason behind the rule 0/1 has been posed other than a generic reason.
<CitrusGender> That's about everything that I can really say at the momment without any other headmin/MSO around. I appreciate all of your for being civil about this, especially with the previous circumstances.
<goof_fuckcomcast2> I don't want to risk having to run cleanup on false dox claims by letting ausops have a chance to continue decieving from a position of authority
<hornygranny> talk to jimm and mso about it tomorrow
<goof_fuckcomcast2> I've got reason to believe that ausops is spreading it, too
<CitrusGender> No from what I can tell.
<CitrusGender> Well, not to the public.
<hornygranny> but you need to move quickly
<hornygranny> it's been way too long already
<goof_fuckcomcast2> see, the goons seem to think I run that alt ss13 Reddit dedicated to doxxing
<CitrusGender> Goons are still relevant?
<goof_fuckcomcast2> yes?
<CitrusGender> kek
<CitrusGender> Go on.
<goof_fuckcomcast2> the fact of the matter is someone told the goons I dox people and that I might be responsible for a Reddit that allows it, this popping up right when an admin is trying to push spurious dox claims to get me banned 5ever and silenced really jogs the nog
<CitrusGender> I think we've all had our problems with public relations.
<goof_fuckcomcast2> one of the goon admins got in big trouble for telling me I was suspected to be running it too
<CitrusGender> Aye, I understand it's touchy.
<CitrusGender> I'm going to continously ping MSO to see if he's available.
<goof_fuckcomcast2> aight, then let's wait in this irc tonight until rustled and mso joind
<CitrusGender> Ussualyl he's awake around this time so I thought it would be credible that he would join
<CitrusGender> aight.
<CitrusGender> I just woke up recently so I'll be awake for the rest of today.
<goof_fuckcomcast2> i recommend you give mso host pick for the 3rd slot, or run a snap election
<goof_fuckcomcast2> the problem with picking a replacement is that public opinion think conspiracy right now, and when I'm unbanned that's going to shift to maximum incompetence since all the facts will be laid out
<CitrusGender> We've got someone that should be very agreeable to you.
<CitrusGender> Ironically enough.
<CitrusGender> But they'll be in after this blows over.
<goof_fuckcomcast2> so your replacement will either get seen as "plant by two headmins" or "this guy is probably retarded"
<CitrusGender> uh
<CitrusGender> oh, if done down
<CitrusGender> now*
<CitrusGender> yeah, hence why w