GRRM interview with John Picacio on Aug 14 2018

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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this is the sfsf podcast for august 2018

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this is a special edition featuring

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george RR martin it was recorded live at

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the Fox Theatre in Redwood City and it's

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a fundraiser for locus magazine and now

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the coordinator of SF and SF

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Rina Weissman good evening everyone

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evening with george RR martin and john

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pokazhi Oh

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my name is Rina Weissman I'm the

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coordinator of SF & SF programs we do

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science fiction in San Francisco since

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2004 we've presented fantasy and science

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fiction horror and genre authors and

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films at both the American bookbinders

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Museum and the Balboa theater in San

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Francisco you can find us online at SF

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in SF org but tonight we're more than

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delighted to be here at the historic Fox

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Theater in Redwood City as you may have

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already discovered because I've seen

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some of you carrying literally a foot of

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books Borderlands books has some great

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titles for sale up on the mezzanine the

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recipient of tonight's effort locus

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magazine and the locus science fiction

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foundation has some great premiums for

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new subscribers you can do print you can

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do digital that it is an essential part

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of any science fiction or fantasy fans

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repertoire believe me and the 76th

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annual world science fiction convention

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and Diane Osbourne will be happy to sign

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you up for the weekends festivities so

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make sure you visit them all at the

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intermission or after the event and just

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to note afterwards we'll be hosting a

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Q&A with audience members so please feel

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free when we reconvene after our break

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to use the mic to the side stage left

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and Marin of Soma FM internet radio will

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be there to assist you and as a little

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extra please note we will have a little

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thank you gift for attendees in the

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lobby as you exit so

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take a look for that so your being here

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tonight is especially important this

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event is a fundraiser for the local

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science fiction foundation the nonprofit

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arm of locus magazine they're

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celebrating their 50th anniversary this

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year

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yay any magazine that lasts 50 years is

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we're celebrating believe me they are

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the magazine of record for the science

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fiction fantasy literary field and as a

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board member of the foundation

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thank you all for contributing to their

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continued existence by being here

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tonight locus magazine was founded in

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1968 in new york by charles and brown

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and others it began as a one-page

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mimeograph zine made to promote the

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Boston and 71 world con bid you'll

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remember what mimeograph were right

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that's probably a locus staffer up there

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who ran the mimeograph machine at one

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point soon Charles Brown relocated to

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Oakland he actually quit his day job in

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1976 to run the magazine as a full-time

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editor in the late 1970's locust became

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a monthly and it's firmly established as

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the preeminent trade magazine for the

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science fiction fantasy publishing field

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they feature book reviews author

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interviews coverage of forthcoming books

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all the science fiction and fantasy

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conventions that you could wish for and

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listings of all science fiction and

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fantasy books published in English and

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over the years they have won an

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incredible 30 Hugo awards for their work

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since January 2011 as well the magazine

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is published in both print and digital

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so you can really have it all upon the

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death of Charles Brown in 2009 executive

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editor Liza groen traii took the helm

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very capably

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as the editor-in-chief and publisher and

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launched the non profit locus science

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fiction foundation so this event to

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benefit the foundation is made possible

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by the help given by many I'd like to

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first and foremost thank Tachyon

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publications local science fiction

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fantasy publisher who is our generous

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sponsor underwriting the evening

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[Applause]

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I would also like to thank Raya golden

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Leonor Gallegos the amazing and

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tremendous borderlands books the world

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science fiction convention Christine

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Doyle Kevin Roche soma FM internet radio

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who is recording this event for later

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podcast the Fox Theater and their

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fabulous staff Broadway by the bay for

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allowing us to co-op this beautiful

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theater for the evening from there at

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Saturday Night Fever production and last

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but not least a great great thank you

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and an incredible debt that I could

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never repay and anybody who is a fan of

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the magazine can't accept by subscribing

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the incredible staff interns and

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volunteers that have kept locusts in

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print for the past 50 years thank you

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our guests this evening they're both

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friends and professional collaborators

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they're well known to the science

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fiction and fantasy world artist john

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picasso is one of the most acclaimed

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american artists in the science fiction

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and fantasy field over the last decade

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he created the best-selling artwork for

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George RR Martin's A Song of Ice and

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Fire series including the 2012 calendar

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as well as the Star Trek and x-men

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franchises major clients in book

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production design and cover art include

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penguin Random House Tour Books

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HarperCollins scholastic Simon &

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Schuster tachyon publications

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subterranean press bein books

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Dark Horse Comics among others his body

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of work features major cover

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illustrations for authors such as

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Michael Moorcock Loren bukas Harlan

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Ellison James Dashner Frederik Pohl Dan

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Simmons sherry chipper James Tiptree jr.

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Chris Roberson Jeffrey for Joe our

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Landsdale and many many more I'm sure

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you recognize some of your favorite

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authors in that list so our net our

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other guest really doesn't need any

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introduction except I will say yes he

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knows

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don't ask and with that I would like to

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introduce John Kakashi oh and george RR

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martin thank you

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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or are you beautiful people out there

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thanks for coming out this is gonna be

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fun if you say yeah this is a cool place

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yeah it's beautiful sitter very nice

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yeah I love old theaters you're gonna

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take this one over to nah this is

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gorgeous

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all right well thank you all for coming

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yeah - uh - our little presentation here

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on behalf of Lucas magazine yay Lucas

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now you're helping to support locust

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just by being here and paying your

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admission but those of you who are

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interested in science fiction/fantasy

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if you're not already a subscriber to

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locus you should get yourself a

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subscription it's the Publishers Weekly

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of science fiction it's a part of the

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field that reviews all the current books

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has all the current news great

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interviews so yeah Lucas yeah for sure

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[Applause]

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and thank you to Rena and SF NSF for

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putting this together

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I mean she just been grinding for weeks

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to make this happen so yeah I must say

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let's give a hand to Rena Wiseman and

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sms so you know she gives us long intro

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for me and of course for him there's we

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don't need anything right and I think

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that's pretty valid you know so have you

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have you guys in this room or like who

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the hell is this guy

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we were sitting back there chatting it

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up as we do and I didn't even realize

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here it is we've known about this for

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months now and I realized wait a minute

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10 years ago is when he and I kind of

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had our basically our he thinks we he

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remembers us meeting earlier than this

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but 10 years ago is when I walk up to

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him at a world con it's the 2008 world

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science fiction convention in Denver

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Colorado and it was a Saturday night it

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was a party the party's going on in the

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party hotel as they do and I walk up to

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him he's with a group of his friends and

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I was walking in there I think with Lou

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Anders and a few of my friends and I had

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a portfolio back in those that day in

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those days surgically attached to my

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armpit and because I was always hustling

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for gigs and I walked up to him and I

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said hey man I don't want to show any

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pictures right now but sometime during

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the show I'd love to show you a few and

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you know I do covers he's like don't

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worry John all right know who you are

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how the hell do you know who I am and

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he's like I you did this cover you did

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Elric you've done this you've done this

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you've done that and he just rattled off

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off the top of his head while he's

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drinking so he's got a Coke in his hand

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or whatever he was drinking and and I

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was like holy you do know who I am

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and uh you know he said don't worry

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we'll work together someday and I

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remember walking away with Lou and my

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friends saying he was just being nice he

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was just buttering me up but that was a

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really great brush-off that was amazing

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how he did that

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and I really did think he was just he

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just was the coolest guy and it just it

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was amazing how he just brushed me off

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like that it was it was super awesome

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and then a year later I'm at world

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science fiction convention again and I

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mean give a show of hands here or give

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some applause if you know what world

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kind of world science fiction convention

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is please okay the entire house says

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some of you actually don't know that

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world science fiction convention is

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about to happen this week here in your

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town so please be aware by the end of

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this you ought to look into that it's an

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amazing magical experience so just to

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finish this story off real quick I was

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that Montreal next year in 2009 for

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Worldcon and he walks up to me this time

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at a party and says hey remember that

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last time we talked last year let's go

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talk in the bar and we did you wanna

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tell your version of this or should I

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just keep going wait you're doing fine

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you can continue yes I did

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I were to ask you about the calendar

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yeah yeah so he says so we go down to

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this bar and we picked the back table

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and he says have you read my Song of Ice

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and Fire books and I said are those the

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big fat ones he said yeah those are the

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big fat ones I think yeah I haven't read

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them he says yeah he says says yeah I

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guess

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and and I said you know at the time I

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remember I'll just shorten this up but

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basically I said I'm working on 13

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covers right now and I'm working on all

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the interiors for the new Michael

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Moorcock Elric omnibus and you know I've

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got a lot of stuff going on and he says

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I've got this calendar project I'm

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wanting to do with my Song of Ice and

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00:11:44,319 --> 00:11:44,860
Fire

274
00:11:44,860 --> 00:11:47,079
books and have you seen the Michael Cole

275
00:11:47,079 --> 00:11:48,309
Mart calendar of Michael Cole Mark's

276
00:11:48,309 --> 00:11:50,230
amazing illustrator I said yeah I've

277
00:11:50,230 --> 00:11:51,519
seen it but I just haven't seen it in

278
00:11:51,519 --> 00:11:52,749
stores he's like yeah that's cuz it has

279
00:11:52,749 --> 00:11:54,369
horrible distribution it says we're

280
00:11:54,369 --> 00:11:56,529
taking it to Random House and I want to

281
00:11:56,529 --> 00:11:58,869
revamp this project because I want you

282
00:11:58,869 --> 00:12:01,089
said you wanted calendars sort of in the

283
00:12:01,089 --> 00:12:02,110
tradition of what the Hildebrandt

284
00:12:02,110 --> 00:12:04,119
brothers well what did the Tolkien

285
00:12:04,119 --> 00:12:05,980
calendar the annual Tolkien calendar

286
00:12:05,980 --> 00:12:07,749
which had been going from in early years

287
00:12:07,749 --> 00:12:09,759
I wanted to do something similar for

288
00:12:09,759 --> 00:12:12,939
Westeros and you know Song of Ice and

289
00:12:12,939 --> 00:12:15,939
Fire and yeah we did launch it in 2009

290
00:12:15,939 --> 00:12:18,819
Michael Cole mark did the first one but

291
00:12:18,819 --> 00:12:20,619
for a small publisher and there were

292
00:12:20,619 --> 00:12:22,420
real problems with order fulfillment and

293
00:12:22,420 --> 00:12:25,600
distribution and 2010 we were supposed

294
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,339
to do one Michael OODA was signed to do

295
00:12:27,339 --> 00:12:29,679
it but then it fell apart over payment

296
00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:31,239
issues and all that so we had to revamp

297
00:12:31,239 --> 00:12:34,629
it all with the 2011 so I think that was

298
00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:36,639
the one I asked do you want to be

299
00:12:36,639 --> 00:12:38,319
supposed to do that one remember I was

300
00:12:38,319 --> 00:12:39,999
too slow I was I was taking too long so

301
00:12:39,999 --> 00:12:42,160
we put in the naismith that's right yes

302
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:43,779
that's right yes that worked out really

303
00:12:43,779 --> 00:12:45,730
well for me because Naismith ended up

304
00:12:45,730 --> 00:12:47,489
his calendar came out right before

305
00:12:47,489 --> 00:12:50,019
season 1 of Game of Thrones happens but

306
00:12:50,019 --> 00:12:51,790
I'm missing a beat here y'all I want to

307
00:12:51,790 --> 00:12:54,519
tell you that so I I tell him at the

308
00:12:54,519 --> 00:12:56,169
time that I have no business doing this

309
00:12:56,169 --> 00:12:57,549
calendar I'm sitting there in that bar

310
00:12:57,549 --> 00:12:58,959
in Montreal saying I've got no business

311
00:12:58,959 --> 00:13:00,100
doing this because I've got too much

312
00:13:00,100 --> 00:13:02,259
work going on but I said I can't say no

313
00:13:02,259 --> 00:13:03,279
to this either because I've always

314
00:13:03,279 --> 00:13:05,410
wanted to work with you so yeah I'd love

315
00:13:05,410 --> 00:13:08,739
to do this and we shook hands and that

316
00:13:08,739 --> 00:13:10,839
is still one of the most magical

317
00:13:10,839 --> 00:13:12,029
experiences of my life

318
00:13:12,029 --> 00:13:17,290
handshake first I said well I want you

319
00:13:17,290 --> 00:13:19,600
to do the counter hand and you said oh

320
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,499
yeah what month we smile which one

321
00:13:22,499 --> 00:13:25,739
I told DiMaggio I said which month

322
00:13:25,739 --> 00:13:28,969
I'm serious I should well all of them

323
00:13:28,969 --> 00:13:36,059
yeah as a complete dumbass but yeah I I

324
00:13:36,059 --> 00:13:37,589
two weeks later I signed the deal with

325
00:13:37,589 --> 00:13:39,509
Random House and then he calls me up and

326
00:13:39,509 --> 00:13:41,399
says hey I signed a deal today too or I

327
00:13:41,399 --> 00:13:44,369
just signed a deal as well and it was

328
00:13:44,369 --> 00:13:47,519
HBO with to do Game of Thrones but I

329
00:13:47,519 --> 00:13:49,109
will say this man from the beginning

330
00:13:49,109 --> 00:13:51,359
even at that bar in the basement in

331
00:13:51,359 --> 00:13:53,399
Montreal and in the basement that Hotel

332
00:13:53,399 --> 00:13:55,709
in Montreal he said I want a John

333
00:13:55,709 --> 00:13:58,439
Picasso vision of my book characters he

334
00:13:58,439 --> 00:14:00,629
says there may be something coming down

335
00:14:00,629 --> 00:14:02,069
the road here I think even at the bar I

336
00:14:02,069 --> 00:14:03,809
don't know if you used the words HBO but

337
00:14:03,809 --> 00:14:05,399
you knew somebody was coming obviously

338
00:14:05,399 --> 00:14:07,319
and he's but you said don't pay

339
00:14:07,319 --> 00:14:10,049
attention to any of that and that's what

340
00:14:10,049 --> 00:14:11,639
really made that project such a dream

341
00:14:11,639 --> 00:14:13,349
project because at this point my point

342
00:14:13,349 --> 00:14:15,479
is there was no game of thrones TV show

343
00:14:15,479 --> 00:14:17,549
this was just me doing my interpretation

344
00:14:17,549 --> 00:14:19,889
of these characters and it was one of

345
00:14:19,889 --> 00:14:21,389
the best pieces of art direction I've

346
00:14:21,389 --> 00:14:22,619
ever been given which was just basically

347
00:14:22,619 --> 00:14:25,499
trust the artist and he put his total

348
00:14:25,499 --> 00:14:27,779
faith in me and I've always been

349
00:14:27,779 --> 00:14:28,649
grateful for that

350
00:14:28,649 --> 00:14:32,759
are you happy with the entire calendar I

351
00:14:32,759 --> 00:14:38,720
mean it's not a big moneymaker you know

352
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,249
sadly a lot of people don't like

353
00:14:41,249 --> 00:14:43,589
telander study war calendar sales have

354
00:14:43,589 --> 00:14:45,209
been like that everybody knows what day

355
00:14:45,209 --> 00:14:49,349
it is on their phone so calendar sales

356
00:14:49,349 --> 00:14:53,009
are not what they were but I love as

357
00:14:53,009 --> 00:14:54,749
we'll talk about later I love science

358
00:14:54,749 --> 00:15:00,169
fiction and fantasy art and we have had

359
00:15:00,169 --> 00:15:04,799
chances not only to to have John and Ted

360
00:15:04,799 --> 00:15:06,419
ministereth before him and Michael Co

361
00:15:06,419 --> 00:15:08,309
Marc but since then we've had we've had

362
00:15:08,309 --> 00:15:11,790
Gary Johnny we had Magali Villeneuve a

363
00:15:11,790 --> 00:15:16,589
not Asian Cola yeah and donado and this

364
00:15:16,589 --> 00:15:18,480
year's calendar it just came out is by

365
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,290
John Jude Alan Carr and we have certain

366
00:15:22,290 --> 00:15:27,000
balking yeah Eric bill bill Hagen did

367
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:32,910
one and did iere graph a the French

368
00:15:32,910 --> 00:15:33,990
artist is awesome

369
00:15:33,990 --> 00:15:38,760
so Michael simonetti we've had some of

370
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:40,800
that yeah I mean what I wanted it to be

371
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:45,209
would be the leading fantasy and science

372
00:15:45,209 --> 00:15:47,820
fiction artists around the world it each

373
00:15:47,820 --> 00:15:49,920
one to do with their own visions and of

374
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:51,360
course when the show came out you know

375
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,220
the HP also came out with their calendar

376
00:15:53,220 --> 00:15:55,019
so you can if you want you can buy a

377
00:15:55,019 --> 00:15:56,820
calendar that stills from the show and

378
00:15:56,820 --> 00:15:59,910
pictures of the actors but when I when

379
00:15:59,910 --> 00:16:02,310
we hire artists to do that I most of

380
00:16:02,310 --> 00:16:03,690
them have seen the show now but I said

381
00:16:03,690 --> 00:16:07,709
we don't don't paint the actors we can't

382
00:16:07,709 --> 00:16:09,269
do that

383
00:16:09,269 --> 00:16:11,310
Darryl HBO has theirs with pictures of

384
00:16:11,310 --> 00:16:12,959
the actors and we have ours which are

385
00:16:12,959 --> 00:16:15,360
your interpretations of my words on

386
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,370
paper yeah but that was the cool thing

387
00:16:17,370 --> 00:16:19,649
too it's like he told me that he wanted

388
00:16:19,649 --> 00:16:21,720
this vision of his book characters and

389
00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:23,639
that there might be this TV show and I

390
00:16:23,639 --> 00:16:25,079
remember that phone call to her you said

391
00:16:25,079 --> 00:16:27,060
if we could just get a pilot done I'd be

392
00:16:27,060 --> 00:16:29,760
happy for that at that point just you

393
00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:30,660
were just hoping that we could get a

394
00:16:30,660 --> 00:16:32,790
pilot we actually got two pilots funny

395
00:16:32,790 --> 00:16:36,240
yeah yeah yeah I mean this was a

396
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,480
different era you know and but and yet

397
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,630
it wasn't that long ago and so you know

398
00:16:42,630 --> 00:16:44,699
at that point there was no Peter

399
00:16:44,699 --> 00:16:51,779
Dinklage is Tyrion or but you know there

400
00:16:51,779 --> 00:16:56,279
you go Maisie Williams Amelia Darrington

401
00:16:56,279 --> 00:16:58,500
so yeah I didn't have these actors in my

402
00:16:58,500 --> 00:17:00,449
head and I look back now and thank God I

403
00:17:00,449 --> 00:17:02,399
didn't have him my ex I don't have to

404
00:17:02,399 --> 00:17:05,250
block him out you know but uh anyway so

405
00:17:05,250 --> 00:17:07,919
that project happened and it was pretty

406
00:17:07,919 --> 00:17:10,530
it was ten years ago this month so I'm

407
00:17:10,530 --> 00:17:11,610
gonna get this out of the way because

408
00:17:11,610 --> 00:17:13,380
I'm I'm already Kinsella just looking

409
00:17:13,380 --> 00:17:15,059
around the room there's a question

410
00:17:15,059 --> 00:17:18,270
that's just hanging right right in there

411
00:17:18,270 --> 00:17:21,690
so we're my favorite color is purple

412
00:17:21,690 --> 00:17:28,800
and knew you wanted to know there you go

413
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,340
psychic hotline where you at with winds

414
00:17:32,340 --> 00:17:34,400
of winter how's it coming

415
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,730
working on it working on it believe me

416
00:17:38,730 --> 00:17:41,280
you'll know when it's done it'll be a

417
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:46,140
shop that has heard round the world so

418
00:17:46,140 --> 00:17:48,900
we got fire and blood coming in November

419
00:17:48,900 --> 00:17:50,640
November that's right

420
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,820
firing blood volume one so this book

421
00:17:53,820 --> 00:17:58,490
yeah go ahead

422
00:17:58,490 --> 00:18:03,450
and I know I know that a day after fire

423
00:18:03,450 --> 00:18:05,580
and blood number one hits the stands and

424
00:18:05,580 --> 00:18:09,780
is sold someone will say when is fire

425
00:18:09,780 --> 00:18:15,090
and blood number two coming out so the

426
00:18:15,090 --> 00:18:17,570
answer will be years from now

427
00:18:17,570 --> 00:18:19,770
when did it first occur to you that this

428
00:18:19,770 --> 00:18:21,330
that the targaryen so this book is

429
00:18:21,330 --> 00:18:23,460
basically a massive history of the

430
00:18:23,460 --> 00:18:25,800
targaryen x' and when did it first occur

431
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,440
to you that this needed to be put into a

432
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:29,790
published volume on its own like this

433
00:18:29,790 --> 00:18:32,490
how far back were you thinking well it

434
00:18:32,490 --> 00:18:35,130
the history is kind of checkered you

435
00:18:35,130 --> 00:18:36,780
know a number of years ago we did the

436
00:18:36,780 --> 00:18:38,160
world of Ice and Fire

437
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,290
have any of you've seen that then and

438
00:18:40,290 --> 00:18:46,110
poured this book and and the idea of

439
00:18:46,110 --> 00:18:48,030
that book was to do a concordance of

440
00:18:48,030 --> 00:18:51,090
Westeros and the world beyond Westeros

441
00:18:51,090 --> 00:18:55,020
and to do it as a as a art book we

442
00:18:55,020 --> 00:18:57,480
wanted you know we wanted beautiful art

443
00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,580
in a coffee table book large oversized

444
00:18:59,580 --> 00:19:02,580
book with lots of art displayed

445
00:19:02,580 --> 00:19:06,300
beautifully high gloss paper so the

446
00:19:06,300 --> 00:19:07,530
artwork would be showed to best

447
00:19:07,530 --> 00:19:11,130
advantage art on every page and I

448
00:19:11,130 --> 00:19:16,620
brought in to uber fans Elio Garcia and

449
00:19:16,620 --> 00:19:19,440
Linda Antonin who did a westeros website

450
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,990
to help me with this is of course I was

451
00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:25,200
writing the books and working on the

452
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,670
show and the idea was okay Elio and

453
00:19:29,670 --> 00:19:31,050
Linda would go through all of the

454
00:19:31,050 --> 00:19:32,760
published novels and pulled out every

455
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,480
reference I've had to history to

456
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,490
you know other kingdoms to past

457
00:19:37,490 --> 00:19:39,590
Targaryen Kings they would organize

458
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:41,900
everything I had already said the cannon

459
00:19:41,900 --> 00:19:46,130
and then I would look at that and they

460
00:19:46,130 --> 00:19:47,480
you know they would write a rough graph

461
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,040
to the history based on what the stuff

462
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,050
I'd already said I would look at it I

463
00:19:51,050 --> 00:19:54,620
would polish it and I would flush out

464
00:19:54,620 --> 00:19:56,780
places where there were holes where I

465
00:19:56,780 --> 00:20:00,230
hadn't said very much and then I said

466
00:20:00,230 --> 00:20:01,850
you know there there are certain aspects

467
00:20:01,850 --> 00:20:03,380
of history that I know a certain amount

468
00:20:03,380 --> 00:20:05,450
about that I've never actually put in

469
00:20:05,450 --> 00:20:07,340
the books a it exists it's in my head

470
00:20:07,340 --> 00:20:09,380
it's in my notes but it's not in the

471
00:20:09,380 --> 00:20:10,970
book so I'll write a few sidebars

472
00:20:10,970 --> 00:20:13,220
that'll be you know little interesting

473
00:20:13,220 --> 00:20:15,830
stories that never have gotten in the

474
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:18,950
books yet and we budgeted this we did a

475
00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:21,050
contract we had a bigger budget to buy a

476
00:20:21,050 --> 00:20:23,090
lot of work for this art on every page

477
00:20:23,090 --> 00:20:26,600
concept and the contract quote for

478
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,990
50,000 words of prose so Illya and Linda

479
00:20:29,990 --> 00:20:31,370
got in there and they pulled out my

480
00:20:31,370 --> 00:20:33,740
stuff and they organized it all and they

481
00:20:33,740 --> 00:20:35,150
put it chronologically and they

482
00:20:35,150 --> 00:20:37,130
indicated there were holes and they

483
00:20:37,130 --> 00:20:40,730
submitted it to me and they had 70,000

484
00:20:40,730 --> 00:20:44,270
words so we were 20,000 words over

485
00:20:44,270 --> 00:20:47,450
before I even started and then I I took

486
00:20:47,450 --> 00:20:49,430
what they did and I polished it expanded

487
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:51,140
it and filled up in the holes and now

488
00:20:51,140 --> 00:20:52,910
we're up to like a hundred thousand

489
00:20:52,910 --> 00:20:56,180
words and then I wrote started writing

490
00:20:56,180 --> 00:20:58,640
my sidebars and I got halfway through to

491
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,030
targaryen and I realized I'd written

492
00:21:02,030 --> 00:21:03,590
three hundred and fifty thousand words

493
00:21:03,590 --> 00:21:12,850
or sidebars so my publisher said hmm

494
00:21:12,850 --> 00:21:17,390
well we could do this but this idea of

495
00:21:17,390 --> 00:21:20,780
art on every page will you know we've

496
00:21:20,780 --> 00:21:22,760
already spent the entire art budget to

497
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,950
illustrate deep fifty thousand words you

498
00:21:24,950 --> 00:21:27,350
were supposed to write and we don't have

499
00:21:27,350 --> 00:21:30,650
any more art budget here and artists you

500
00:21:30,650 --> 00:21:31,760
know I don't know if you guys know this

501
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,740
but he's artists of this and doing have

502
00:21:33,740 --> 00:21:37,070
been wanting to be paid somehow the

503
00:21:37,070 --> 00:21:39,440
honor of working on a project like this

504
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,660
is just not enough for them they want to

505
00:21:41,660 --> 00:21:45,710
be paid so if we publish all this it's

506
00:21:45,710 --> 00:21:48,590
gonna have to be heart on every 20 pages

507
00:21:48,590 --> 00:21:48,920
and

508
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,260
20 pictures of dick well no that's not

509
00:21:51,260 --> 00:21:53,150
the concept so I ripped out all of my

510
00:21:53,150 --> 00:21:56,150
sidebars and we went ahead and we

511
00:21:56,150 --> 00:21:57,740
finished a book and republishes a very

512
00:21:57,740 --> 00:21:59,210
nice book it has harder than every page

513
00:21:59,210 --> 00:22:03,680
it's gorgeous it has two histories Elio

514
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,780
and Linda condensed a lot of the stuff

515
00:22:05,780 --> 00:22:08,330
that I'd done a date abridged it's very

516
00:22:08,330 --> 00:22:10,940
severely they cut it back but meanwhile

517
00:22:10,940 --> 00:22:13,550
I was left with threes 350,000 words of

518
00:22:13,550 --> 00:22:17,930
Targaryen history and I started taking

519
00:22:17,930 --> 00:22:20,090
versions of it in them my friend Gardner

520
00:22:20,090 --> 00:22:25,480
Dozois who passed away a few months ago

521
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,820
had these anthologies so and some of

522
00:22:28,820 --> 00:22:30,830
them I did with him so we published a

523
00:22:30,830 --> 00:22:35,330
chunk of it in dangerous women which

524
00:22:35,330 --> 00:22:36,890
Carter and I did together the princess

525
00:22:36,890 --> 00:22:38,690
in a queen and we published another

526
00:22:38,690 --> 00:22:40,190
chunk called the rogue prince and

527
00:22:40,190 --> 00:22:42,970
anthology called robes and just earlier

528
00:22:42,970 --> 00:22:46,150
late last year we published a section

529
00:22:46,150 --> 00:22:49,130
called sons of the Dragon in a gardeners

530
00:22:49,130 --> 00:22:52,160
anthology book of swords but there was a

531
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,380
lot more and so I said well this would

532
00:22:54,380 --> 00:22:57,770
be my I'm some early on we called it the

533
00:22:57,770 --> 00:23:02,000
Grimm really on and I will get back to

534
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,840
it when I finish the main series and

535
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,060
then I will publish this

536
00:23:08,060 --> 00:23:12,080
similarly on Grimm early on whatever and

537
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,450
that that was the way it was for several

538
00:23:14,450 --> 00:23:16,880
years where I worked on the books but

539
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:23,240
then as you know HBO decided to develop

540
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,960
a number of successor series to Game of

541
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,680
Thrones because Game of Thrones is

542
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,780
ending as you may know this upcoming

543
00:23:32,780 --> 00:23:36,680
eighth season will be the last and but

544
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,300
it won't be the last thing of Westeros

545
00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:41,990
we're developing five successor series

546
00:23:41,990 --> 00:23:44,960
and there may be more and some of those

547
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,620
successor series are based on material

548
00:23:47,620 --> 00:23:53,960
from my sidebars

549
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,540
[Applause]

550
00:23:57,540 --> 00:24:01,510
so when my publishers heard that they

551
00:24:01,510 --> 00:24:05,140
said well we should publish the sidebars

552
00:24:05,140 --> 00:24:09,280
then before the new shows come out so

553
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:10,870
can you finish up

554
00:24:10,870 --> 00:24:13,000
you know I'd left a few holes and in

555
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,920
this can you finish that part up and

556
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,440
then we'll publish that and we want that

557
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,680
next so I published I filled up the

558
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,680
holes and we finished the first volume

559
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,070
fire and blood and November 20th it'll

560
00:24:27,070 --> 00:24:28,810
be out it covers all of Targaryen

561
00:24:28,810 --> 00:24:34,600
history from Aegon's conquest up to the

562
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,200
Regency for Aegon the third which is

563
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,000
about half of Targaryen history there's

564
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,680
a lot more left and there's a lot of you

565
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,480
know there's versions of the princess

566
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,090
and the Queen and the rogue Prince the

567
00:24:49,090 --> 00:24:50,500
verses that you read in those

568
00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:52,210
anthologies if you read them are

569
00:24:52,210 --> 00:24:53,440
abridged

570
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,390
these will be the full versions for the

571
00:24:55,390 --> 00:24:57,430
first time published and then there's a

572
00:24:57,430 --> 00:24:59,920
lot of material about kings that has

573
00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:01,720
never been published before so that's

574
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,950
all in there too and it should be pretty

575
00:25:05,950 --> 00:25:07,720
we're gonna have some art and it's not

576
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,220
going to be a coffee table book though

577
00:25:09,220 --> 00:25:10,990
but we will have some some lovely

578
00:25:10,990 --> 00:25:14,980
interior or more like the variety of if

579
00:25:14,980 --> 00:25:17,260
any of you have seen the night of Seven

580
00:25:17,260 --> 00:25:18,790
Kingdoms with the black and white art

581
00:25:18,790 --> 00:25:20,770
and that that's all by Gary Johnny or

582
00:25:20,770 --> 00:25:23,170
more recently anniversary edition of

583
00:25:23,170 --> 00:25:25,750
Game of Thrones had a variety of artists

584
00:25:25,750 --> 00:25:27,550
illustrating it so it'll be more like

585
00:25:27,550 --> 00:25:35,220
that what black and white illustrations

586
00:25:35,220 --> 00:25:38,710
yes yes and there'll be a deluxe edition

587
00:25:38,710 --> 00:25:40,570
from subterranean press that we'll have

588
00:25:40,570 --> 00:25:43,570
that was or even more art I do like

589
00:25:43,570 --> 00:25:45,760
fantasy art as you see I try to sneak in

590
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:46,930
at their books wherever I can

591
00:25:46,930 --> 00:25:50,500
yay well come back come back to that bit

592
00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:53,440
at the end I'm actually gonna bounce us

593
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,690
back a little more toward toward early

594
00:25:55,690 --> 00:25:59,170
roots here you know preparing for this

595
00:25:59,170 --> 00:26:00,550
event I think I've watched just about

596
00:26:00,550 --> 00:26:02,470
every interview you've done since 2011

597
00:26:02,470 --> 00:26:04,060
on YouTube which is like like 30 hours

598
00:26:04,060 --> 00:26:06,809
of stuff oh dear gone over her

599
00:26:06,809 --> 00:26:08,789
you've gone over this a bit before in

600
00:26:08,789 --> 00:26:10,110
those but I want to take this in a

601
00:26:10,110 --> 00:26:11,940
slightly different direction so you're

602
00:26:11,940 --> 00:26:14,610
growing up in Bayonne New Jersey you

603
00:26:14,610 --> 00:26:18,019
know you you grew up as a poor kid

604
00:26:18,019 --> 00:26:20,759
but your family wasn't always poor and

605
00:26:20,759 --> 00:26:24,179
you had you had a certain set of

606
00:26:24,179 --> 00:26:25,889
memories and experiences growing up

607
00:26:25,889 --> 00:26:28,440
within the area that you you did were

608
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,710
you had to encounter well my family

609
00:26:31,710 --> 00:26:35,249
during my lifetime was poor but yes we

610
00:26:35,249 --> 00:26:37,289
had family legends families histories of

611
00:26:37,289 --> 00:26:41,220
what had come before us you know my

612
00:26:41,220 --> 00:26:45,149
mother was a Brady and the Brady's came

613
00:26:45,149 --> 00:26:46,499
to United States during the potato

614
00:26:46,499 --> 00:26:49,259
famine and settled in Bayonne and made

615
00:26:49,259 --> 00:26:50,820
quite a success of themselves

616
00:26:50,820 --> 00:26:52,980
there was a Brady's tavern that was very

617
00:26:52,980 --> 00:26:56,519
popular in the in the 1800s and you know

618
00:26:56,519 --> 00:26:58,590
one of the big social centers of Bayonne

619
00:26:58,590 --> 00:27:00,149
they got very active in democratic

620
00:27:00,149 --> 00:27:02,429
politics some of them were elected that

621
00:27:02,429 --> 00:27:04,529
and they there's a couple generations

622
00:27:04,529 --> 00:27:07,460
back they started a construction company

623
00:27:07,460 --> 00:27:09,480
construction materials that was very

624
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,730
successful even had so much stuff

625
00:27:11,730 --> 00:27:14,990
delivered that they built a dock for

626
00:27:14,990 --> 00:27:18,450
shipments of gravel and cement and other

627
00:27:18,450 --> 00:27:20,249
things needed for construction it became

628
00:27:20,249 --> 00:27:23,879
known as Brady's dock unfortunately

629
00:27:23,879 --> 00:27:25,440
there was this thing called the Great

630
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,590
Depression and they managed to lose all

631
00:27:28,590 --> 00:27:31,860
of their money then and the company went

632
00:27:31,860 --> 00:27:34,559
bust and was acquired and the dock was

633
00:27:34,559 --> 00:27:37,529
lost and everything was lost here so by

634
00:27:37,529 --> 00:27:41,909
the time I came along none of the money

635
00:27:41,909 --> 00:27:44,700
was left the house that my mother had

636
00:27:44,700 --> 00:27:48,539
been born in which was on between third

637
00:27:48,539 --> 00:27:50,309
and fourth Street on Lourdes Avenue in

638
00:27:50,309 --> 00:27:53,940
Bayonne had been sold and other people

639
00:27:53,940 --> 00:27:56,879
lived there now and we wound up moving

640
00:27:56,879 --> 00:27:59,820
into the apartment a federal housing

641
00:27:59,820 --> 00:28:01,649
low-income project on First Street

642
00:28:01,649 --> 00:28:04,559
oddly enough right across from City Dock

643
00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:07,529
which was formerly Brady's dock and then

644
00:28:07,529 --> 00:28:08,850
I would walk to school on Fifth Street

645
00:28:08,850 --> 00:28:11,820
and I would walk past the house that my

646
00:28:11,820 --> 00:28:13,980
family had owned but no longer owned and

647
00:28:13,980 --> 00:28:16,769
it was like okay I'm poor but I came

648
00:28:16,769 --> 00:28:19,169
from this like nobility I was Daenerys

649
00:28:19,169 --> 00:28:20,750
Targaryen

650
00:28:20,750 --> 00:28:23,760
you know always hearing these stories of

651
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,610
oh yeah that dock across the street that

652
00:28:26,610 --> 00:28:28,950
used to be your grandfather's but now it

653
00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:31,290
belongs to the city oh that house yeah

654
00:28:31,290 --> 00:28:32,790
other people living there but that was

655
00:28:32,790 --> 00:28:35,910
where my mother was born and you know

656
00:28:35,910 --> 00:28:38,790
all of my uncles and aunts were born in

657
00:28:38,790 --> 00:28:40,500
that house and grew up in NASA yeah but

658
00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:42,990
now we're that were nothing but we will

659
00:28:42,990 --> 00:28:46,710
be back that was always this stuff so I

660
00:28:46,710 --> 00:28:50,880
had this sense of being on one hand very

661
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,370
poor and being a project kid which was

662
00:28:53,370 --> 00:28:56,040
sort of stigmatized and looked down upon

663
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:57,780
we would have the poor kids everybody

664
00:28:57,780 --> 00:29:01,100
surrounding lived in single family homes

665
00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:05,340
but also I came from you know lost

666
00:29:05,340 --> 00:29:08,180
realty and riches yeah with that an

667
00:29:08,180 --> 00:29:10,530
interesting juxtaposition yeah that

668
00:29:10,530 --> 00:29:12,620
juxtaposition I mean did that sort of

669
00:29:12,620 --> 00:29:14,820
define you feel like that defines sort

670
00:29:14,820 --> 00:29:16,490
of your work ethic and the way you

671
00:29:16,490 --> 00:29:21,000
handle your work as a writer talk about

672
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:26,370
that a little bit I mean um I think it

673
00:29:26,370 --> 00:29:28,350
helped shape my personality I don't know

674
00:29:28,350 --> 00:29:31,950
if that influenced me as a writer you

675
00:29:31,950 --> 00:29:36,230
know I seen people who who were living a

676
00:29:36,230 --> 00:29:40,460
poor environment you know like a project

677
00:29:40,460 --> 00:29:43,140
a low-income project where you have to

678
00:29:43,140 --> 00:29:44,820
prove how poor you are even to get in

679
00:29:44,820 --> 00:29:46,980
there um and if you make too much money

680
00:29:46,980 --> 00:29:48,660
to kick you out which is ultimately what

681
00:29:48,660 --> 00:29:50,160
happened to my family my father got a

682
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,330
job as a longshoreman and as he got more

683
00:29:54,330 --> 00:29:55,860
and more seniority he worked more and

684
00:29:55,860 --> 00:29:58,350
more often and that's a union job it's

685
00:29:58,350 --> 00:30:00,030
pretty well paid and ultimately they

686
00:30:00,030 --> 00:30:01,470
said hey you guys are making too much

687
00:30:01,470 --> 00:30:06,090
money get out what I always kind of had

688
00:30:06,090 --> 00:30:07,710
the belief that we we should get out I

689
00:30:07,710 --> 00:30:10,590
think a lot of people who are in a poor

690
00:30:10,590 --> 00:30:14,820
environment there's a message that is

691
00:30:14,820 --> 00:30:17,640
put into him either consciously or

692
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,650
subconsciously somehow you absorb that

693
00:30:19,650 --> 00:30:21,660
by as Moses that you you belong there

694
00:30:21,660 --> 00:30:24,570
they're not as good as other people you

695
00:30:24,570 --> 00:30:26,070
know you're you're having to live in

696
00:30:26,070 --> 00:30:30,000
this you know low-income area with other

697
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,680
low-income people because you're not

698
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,050
worthy of any more than this but in my

699
00:30:36,050 --> 00:30:38,630
case I never had that feeling that that

700
00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:40,130
didn't get drummed in you because I

701
00:30:40,130 --> 00:30:41,630
always had this counter real anything

702
00:30:41,630 --> 00:30:45,770
Hey we're selling that duck my

703
00:30:45,770 --> 00:30:48,080
grandfather owned that dacha so you know

704
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,370
don't you know and I think that that

705
00:30:52,370 --> 00:30:54,400
helps you I mean one of the things that

706
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,770
kids coming from any environment need is

707
00:30:57,770 --> 00:31:00,140
is a sense of possibility a sense of

708
00:31:00,140 --> 00:31:02,930
hope even if you're living poor now you

709
00:31:02,930 --> 00:31:05,390
know that you could change that that a

710
00:31:05,390 --> 00:31:07,670
fortune that can bring you down canticle

711
00:31:07,670 --> 00:31:09,320
lifts you up you have to have that

712
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:10,910
belief in yourself a belief in the

713
00:31:10,910 --> 00:31:13,670
possibilities that sense of hope and you

714
00:31:13,670 --> 00:31:17,720
know I I did have that yeah I mean the

715
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,610
we've talked in over times you and I

716
00:31:19,610 --> 00:31:21,500
about the ups and downs of being a

717
00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:24,350
creator and you know that it's it's a

718
00:31:24,350 --> 00:31:25,310
lot of times about how you pick yourself

719
00:31:25,310 --> 00:31:28,820
up and you told me once we were at a you

720
00:31:28,820 --> 00:31:31,730
donated the five millionth book to the

721
00:31:31,730 --> 00:31:35,060
Texas A&M Cushing library a few years

722
00:31:35,060 --> 00:31:37,190
ago a couple years ago I guess it was a

723
00:31:37,190 --> 00:31:38,810
sign it was a first edition of The

724
00:31:38,810 --> 00:31:40,790
Hobbit and we were there for that

725
00:31:40,790 --> 00:31:42,920
ceremony and it was a it was an offhand

726
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,390
comment you made there where you said

727
00:31:44,390 --> 00:31:45,980
you know you had crashed and burned your

728
00:31:45,980 --> 00:31:49,820
career at least twice and I thought

729
00:31:49,820 --> 00:31:51,320
maybe I would be really cool to hear you

730
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,000
talk about I know one of them is the

731
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,520
Armageddon rag but I don't know what the

732
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,410
other one is and it was Hollywood my

733
00:31:57,410 --> 00:31:59,480
first go-round in Hollywood yeah you

734
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,030
know I teach it

735
00:32:02,030 --> 00:32:04,160
your Clarion Clarion West workshops

736
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,820
Odyssey house cool box I've done that I

737
00:32:07,820 --> 00:32:10,250
deal with young writers any you hear an

738
00:32:10,250 --> 00:32:13,010
aspiring writer raise your hands if you

739
00:32:13,010 --> 00:32:14,840
want to write really high fantastic

740
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,180
there you go now I say there's a number

741
00:32:17,180 --> 00:32:18,080
of you know there's a lot of you

742
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,860
actually so the thing that I tell the

743
00:32:21,860 --> 00:32:24,130
young writers of these workshops is that

744
00:32:24,130 --> 00:32:28,370
if you value security this is not a job

745
00:32:28,370 --> 00:32:32,590
for you accounting I hear is very good

746
00:32:32,590 --> 00:32:36,320
certainly this computer thing I think

747
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,060
those are here to stay these computer

748
00:32:38,060 --> 00:32:40,250
thing and if you learn how to be good

749
00:32:40,250 --> 00:32:42,380
with that that's probably a nice you

750
00:32:42,380 --> 00:32:44,570
know future there

751
00:32:44,570 --> 00:32:46,940
and that we're here in Silicon Valley so

752
00:32:46,940 --> 00:32:50,120
that might work out for you guys but

753
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:54,710
writing fiction telling stories it could

754
00:32:54,710 --> 00:32:57,200
be very fulfilling an exciting thing but

755
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:58,850
you're never gonna have any security

756
00:32:58,850 --> 00:33:00,770
it's not something where you can star it

757
00:33:00,770 --> 00:33:02,960
and work your way up and then you know

758
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,120
get a raise and get another raise a few

759
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,130
years later and at the end of and that's

760
00:33:07,130 --> 00:33:08,900
your career they give you a gold watch

761
00:33:08,900 --> 00:33:11,570
and a nice pension package no that's not

762
00:33:11,570 --> 00:33:13,790
an occurrence feel you have to be a bit

763
00:33:13,790 --> 00:33:15,320
of a gambler

764
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,350
to enter any creative profession whether

765
00:33:18,350 --> 00:33:20,750
it's acting and I know a lot of aspiring

766
00:33:20,750 --> 00:33:23,810
actors whether it's art whether it's

767
00:33:23,810 --> 00:33:28,510
writing stories or screenplays because

768
00:33:28,510 --> 00:33:32,240
the market is volatile it goes up and

769
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,570
down you can be very hot you can be very

770
00:33:35,570 --> 00:33:38,180
cold and it can go from one to another

771
00:33:38,180 --> 00:33:41,090
like that I mean I I've broken in the

772
00:33:41,090 --> 00:33:44,180
70s I was a hot young writer for like a

773
00:33:44,180 --> 00:33:49,250
decade and I was winning awards being

774
00:33:49,250 --> 00:33:53,630
nominated for awards publishers for for

775
00:33:53,630 --> 00:33:55,670
publishers bid on my first novel and an

776
00:33:55,670 --> 00:33:57,920
auction it was all very exciting and

777
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,690
then I got more money even for my second

778
00:33:59,690 --> 00:34:01,370
novel and I got more money for my third

779
00:34:01,370 --> 00:34:03,770
novel and sooner or later was just a

780
00:34:03,770 --> 00:34:04,910
matter of time till I hit that

781
00:34:04,910 --> 00:34:07,880
bestseller list and boy I thought this

782
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,530
was like the easy profession in the

783
00:34:09,530 --> 00:34:11,000
world and in my fourth novel the

784
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,440
Armageddon read came out and nobody

785
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,440
bought it and suddenly I couldn't get

786
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,200
people to return my phone calls and I

787
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,740
couldn't sell my fifth novel and I was

788
00:34:21,740 --> 00:34:24,650
taking a course and had a Maya sell real

789
00:34:24,650 --> 00:34:26,690
estate with no money down

790
00:34:26,690 --> 00:34:28,700
you know I set the way for these tapes

791
00:34:28,700 --> 00:34:30,619
from late-night TV cuz I didn't know how

792
00:34:30,619 --> 00:34:32,450
to hell I was gonna pay my mortgage why

793
00:34:32,450 --> 00:34:33,530
do you think it why do you think it

794
00:34:33,530 --> 00:34:35,990
tanked looking back now what do you

795
00:34:35,990 --> 00:34:39,849
think well now that you didn't see that

796
00:34:39,849 --> 00:34:42,379
the Armageddon rig was an unusual model

797
00:34:42,379 --> 00:34:45,589
it was a rock and roll fantasy horror

798
00:34:45,589 --> 00:34:48,109
novel about the children of the sixties

799
00:34:48,109 --> 00:34:51,829
in the 80s and it was you know my sold

800
00:34:51,829 --> 00:34:53,720
for a lot of money my my publisher at

801
00:34:53,720 --> 00:34:55,250
that time thought it would be but the

802
00:34:55,250 --> 00:34:57,880
big breakout bestseller book for me but

803
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:02,210
no I mean oddly enough at the time I

804
00:35:02,210 --> 00:35:03,770
sold that people say well rock and roll

805
00:35:03,770 --> 00:35:07,310
novels don't sell but this one my editor

806
00:35:07,310 --> 00:35:08,720
was so convinced well this one will be

807
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:10,520
the exception we'll prove the falsity

808
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,440
that rule well no they just proved the

809
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,510
truth of that rule I mean a lot of

810
00:35:14,510 --> 00:35:16,069
people love rock and roll but if you

811
00:35:16,069 --> 00:35:17,329
love rock and roll you don't want to

812
00:35:17,329 --> 00:35:20,329
read about fake made-up bands like my

813
00:35:20,329 --> 00:35:22,369
band in the book you want to read about

814
00:35:22,369 --> 00:35:24,440
the Rolling Stones or the Beatles or or

815
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,480
the Eagles or whoever your favorite band

816
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:31,069
is so I think that was part of it it was

817
00:35:31,069 --> 00:35:33,230
I was doing a lot of course genre work

818
00:35:33,230 --> 00:35:35,540
and you know when you're not writing if

819
00:35:35,540 --> 00:35:37,130
you're writing a space opera it's a

820
00:35:37,130 --> 00:35:39,020
space opera and epic fantasy and every

821
00:35:39,020 --> 00:35:40,400
fantasy born you're mixing things

822
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,230
together they're saying well this is

823
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:43,819
partly a mystery novel but it's not

824
00:35:43,819 --> 00:35:46,250
really a mystery novels also got fantasy

825
00:35:46,250 --> 00:35:48,109
elements in it it's really a novel about

826
00:35:48,109 --> 00:35:50,660
the 60s you know then you're taking a

827
00:35:50,660 --> 00:35:54,230
risk here but the point is my career as

828
00:35:54,230 --> 00:35:56,060
a novelist was effectively over and

829
00:35:56,060 --> 00:35:57,859
thankfully I got involved in the

830
00:35:57,859 --> 00:36:00,619
television at the same time and then

831
00:36:00,619 --> 00:36:02,480
over the next ten years I repeated the

832
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,490
same career path of being you know

833
00:36:04,490 --> 00:36:06,650
starting out at the bottom as a as a

834
00:36:06,650 --> 00:36:09,560
staff writer and Twilight Zone writing a

835
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,750
couple scripts for them getting promoted

836
00:36:11,750 --> 00:36:13,630
the story editor getting promoted to

837
00:36:13,630 --> 00:36:16,130
co-producer going to Max Headroom going

838
00:36:16,130 --> 00:36:17,089
to Beauty and the Beast

839
00:36:17,089 --> 00:36:19,250
climbing the things and finally you know

840
00:36:19,250 --> 00:36:20,569
up to the thing where I could be a

841
00:36:20,569 --> 00:36:21,170
showrunner

842
00:36:21,170 --> 00:36:23,030
I was getting what they call overall

843
00:36:23,030 --> 00:36:24,829
deals would they just pay you a salary

844
00:36:24,829 --> 00:36:27,680
to come up with new concepts for them

845
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:29,720
come up with pilots and all that stuff

846
00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:33,530
and I came up with a bunch of pilots I

847
00:36:33,530 --> 00:36:35,000
wrote a bunch of pilots I wrote a bunch

848
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,730
of feature films none of them got made I

849
00:36:37,730 --> 00:36:39,250
mean people loved them but

850
00:36:39,250 --> 00:36:40,990
for one reason or another and everyone

851
00:36:40,990 --> 00:36:42,520
is the thing that of them got made and

852
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,640
at one point they looked around and said

853
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,770
whoo we've been paying this guy a lot of

854
00:36:47,770 --> 00:36:49,390
money to come up with ideas but nobody

855
00:36:49,390 --> 00:36:52,240
is buying his shows so let's not renew

856
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:54,069
his deal and suddenly it was the same

857
00:36:54,069 --> 00:36:57,010
thing I was back you know now my eye had

858
00:36:57,010 --> 00:36:59,560
burned out television the same way at

859
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,579
earlier burned-out publishing and I

860
00:37:03,579 --> 00:37:05,589
couldn't get my agent my Hollywood agent

861
00:37:05,589 --> 00:37:07,270
to return my call thankfully my book

862
00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:09,130
agents have always been very great and

863
00:37:09,130 --> 00:37:13,329
loyal but Hollywood is a fickler kind of

864
00:37:13,329 --> 00:37:18,220
thing so at that point I I had learned

865
00:37:18,220 --> 00:37:19,720
one thing from the Armageddon rig

866
00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:21,400
experience from the first time I made my

867
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,119
career crashed and burned so I give this

868
00:37:25,119 --> 00:37:26,710
advice to all the young writers out

869
00:37:26,710 --> 00:37:28,290
there if you're ever gonna follow it

870
00:37:28,290 --> 00:37:33,760
don't take on debt no Bailey don't take

871
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,240
on delay I mean when when when are we

872
00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:38,619
getting read failed I was faced with

873
00:37:38,619 --> 00:37:41,560
losing my house because I had a you know

874
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,260
I bought a house that was nicer than you

875
00:37:44,260 --> 00:37:45,910
know predicated on the thing that I

876
00:37:45,910 --> 00:37:47,619
would be able to maintain my career at a

877
00:37:47,619 --> 00:37:49,480
certain level and now my career was not

878
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:50,859
at that level in fact it was that no

879
00:37:50,859 --> 00:37:53,290
level I couldn't get arrested

880
00:37:53,290 --> 00:37:55,839
so how was I gonna make my mortgage

881
00:37:55,839 --> 00:37:58,839
payments and you know I bought a nice

882
00:37:58,839 --> 00:38:01,000
car how was I gonna make my car payments

883
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:02,920
you know suddenly I had no income and I

884
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,780
had big debts and I was living on my

885
00:38:04,780 --> 00:38:06,400
credit card and then of course say that

886
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,369
oh very bad don't do that don't ever do

887
00:38:09,369 --> 00:38:11,890
that in the ten years in Hollywood I

888
00:38:11,890 --> 00:38:14,050
came to my senses I paid off my mortgage

889
00:38:14,050 --> 00:38:17,260
I paid off my car I liquid paid off all

890
00:38:17,260 --> 00:38:19,540
of my credit card debts and so then the

891
00:38:19,540 --> 00:38:21,130
second time my career crashed and burned

892
00:38:21,130 --> 00:38:23,800
well I didn't have a whole lot of money

893
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:25,240
coming in but I didn't have to worry

894
00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:26,920
about losing my house because my house

895
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:28,900
was free and clear my car was free and

896
00:38:28,900 --> 00:38:30,339
clear everything was very clear I've

897
00:38:30,339 --> 00:38:32,560
never gotten myself in any significant

898
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:36,460
amount of debt since and so you know not

899
00:38:36,460 --> 00:38:38,170
having a lot of money but then again not

900
00:38:38,170 --> 00:38:39,520
having a lot of obligation I sat down

901
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,050
and started writing this book cool Game

902
00:38:41,050 --> 00:38:43,480
of Thrones and that worked out pretty

903
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:44,960
well

904
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:53,450
so but you know it is it is a crapshoot

905
00:38:53,450 --> 00:38:57,890
if you want to write it can be one of

906
00:38:57,890 --> 00:39:00,950
the most satisfying professions you ever

907
00:39:00,950 --> 00:39:02,900
have you're you're telling stories

908
00:39:02,900 --> 00:39:07,400
you're living in your own world you put

909
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,920
it out there and if you find it audience

910
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,310
and people love it that's so gratifying

911
00:39:12,310 --> 00:39:16,220
but you know you don't you don't have a

912
00:39:16,220 --> 00:39:19,520
boss you don't have you could sleep late

913
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,430
in the morning if you want to

914
00:39:21,430 --> 00:39:23,420
occasionally people will ask you for

915
00:39:23,420 --> 00:39:25,250
your autograph or something like that or

916
00:39:25,250 --> 00:39:26,869
you'll get to do something cool like

917
00:39:26,869 --> 00:39:30,650
this it's there are a lot of rewards to

918
00:39:30,650 --> 00:39:33,080
doing that but the work itself is the

919
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:34,670
greatest reward I love telling my

920
00:39:34,670 --> 00:39:37,430
stories creating my characters creating

921
00:39:37,430 --> 00:39:39,950
my worlds I couldn't think of anything

922
00:39:39,950 --> 00:39:42,349
I'd rather do and in the world than in

923
00:39:42,349 --> 00:39:44,599
that profession and the fact that it is

924
00:39:44,599 --> 00:39:47,780
occasionally lucrative and enables me to

925
00:39:47,780 --> 00:39:51,140
you know to buy houses and cars and pay

926
00:39:51,140 --> 00:39:52,490
my mortgage so I don't have to be a

927
00:39:52,490 --> 00:39:55,030
homeless person pushing a shopping cart

928
00:39:55,030 --> 00:40:00,859
it's good but I I sometimes think I'd I

929
00:40:00,859 --> 00:40:02,270
would do it even if I was a homeless

930
00:40:02,270 --> 00:40:04,580
person pushing a shopping cart I'd be

931
00:40:04,580 --> 00:40:06,380
stopping you in the street with my

932
00:40:06,380 --> 00:40:07,760
shopping cart saying would you like to

933
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:13,630
read my new story I'll read it to you

934
00:40:13,630 --> 00:40:17,270
you know there are a lot of books out

935
00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:20,869
there about writer's block and how you

936
00:40:20,869 --> 00:40:23,210
deal with that and how you deal with if

937
00:40:23,210 --> 00:40:24,650
you're if you're visual artists how you

938
00:40:24,650 --> 00:40:29,119
deal with the blank canvas and something

939
00:40:29,119 --> 00:40:32,089
I've thought about as when I go back to

940
00:40:32,089 --> 00:40:34,520
that meeting we first had and then me

941
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:35,839
signed the contract for that calendar

942
00:40:35,839 --> 00:40:38,270
and him signed the deal with HBO when we

943
00:40:38,270 --> 00:40:39,740
had that talk on the phone I remember

944
00:40:39,740 --> 00:40:41,990
asking him I think you even told me you

945
00:40:41,990 --> 00:40:43,339
didn't tell me the exact amount of money

946
00:40:43,339 --> 00:40:45,410
I don't think we went that far but she

947
00:40:45,410 --> 00:40:47,270
said it was a lot and I said for that

948
00:40:47,270 --> 00:40:50,480
amount of money I know this won't happen

949
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,420
just by just speculating could they

950
00:40:53,420 --> 00:40:56,720
actually write the story ahead of you if

951
00:40:56,720 --> 00:40:58,310
they if could they can if they caught up

952
00:40:58,310 --> 00:40:58,760
to you

953
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,820
could they you know concede we tell the

954
00:41:01,820 --> 00:41:02,540
story without you

955
00:41:02,540 --> 00:41:04,430
and you kind of stop you kind of pause

956
00:41:04,430 --> 00:41:07,130
for a second said yeah they could they

957
00:41:07,130 --> 00:41:08,840
could do that and I said but that won't

958
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,300
happen and I won't happen I don't think

959
00:41:11,300 --> 00:41:13,220
so either but he said he could but he

960
00:41:13,220 --> 00:41:15,140
said but I remember you saying if it did

961
00:41:15,140 --> 00:41:17,480
you know they could conceivably do that

962
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,610
and I was back then you you knew that

963
00:41:19,610 --> 00:41:21,830
that could happen but I don't think you

964
00:41:21,830 --> 00:41:25,520
saw that at that point but now it has

965
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,740
happened and so now that it's happened

966
00:41:27,740 --> 00:41:29,060
sometimes when I'm watching the show of

967
00:41:29,060 --> 00:41:30,650
my wife's there on the couch with me and

968
00:41:30,650 --> 00:41:32,600
we're engrossed in and it's Donna

969
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,720
I sometimes wonder its kind of feel

970
00:41:35,720 --> 00:41:38,510
really lonely being you and and and I

971
00:41:38,510 --> 00:41:40,160
don't mean this in a cruel way but I I

972
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:41,960
think you know this guy's my friend and

973
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,200
I think you know nobody nobody's been in

974
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:46,550
the position he's been in and where

975
00:41:46,550 --> 00:41:48,410
you've got this epic story that you've

976
00:41:48,410 --> 00:41:49,880
created that you've been working for

977
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,070
working on for years and years and years

978
00:41:52,070 --> 00:41:53,780
and now here it is

979
00:41:53,780 --> 00:41:55,160
you know how it's supposed to be told

980
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:57,650
and someone else is telling it and not

981
00:41:57,650 --> 00:41:59,060
only are they telling it but they're

982
00:41:59,060 --> 00:42:00,740
telling it so the whole world sees it

983
00:42:00,740 --> 00:42:02,840
and I'm just wondering how does that

984
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,430
affect your headspace and how do you

985
00:42:04,430 --> 00:42:07,490
cope with that I mean I've always you

986
00:42:07,490 --> 00:42:08,690
know it's like I can't just call you up

987
00:42:08,690 --> 00:42:11,300
and say hey how you doing is that relate

988
00:42:11,300 --> 00:42:13,220
to your situation and who can you know

989
00:42:13,220 --> 00:42:17,420
how do you do a deal with that well like

990
00:42:17,420 --> 00:42:19,070
you say it's a unique situation I don't

991
00:42:19,070 --> 00:42:20,180
think anyone has written in this

992
00:42:20,180 --> 00:42:22,280
situation before there's normally and

993
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,080
when things are adapted to television or

994
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,770
film they're finished you know Lord of

995
00:42:27,770 --> 00:42:30,440
the Rings was done by the time ball for

996
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,540
30 years before Peter Jackson made the

997
00:42:32,540 --> 00:42:39,370
movies you know you just have to have

998
00:42:39,370 --> 00:42:41,960
and I didn't expect it to happen I've

999
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,360
said that many other interviews before

1000
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,850
you know I had a huge head started him I

1001
00:42:46,850 --> 00:42:48,230
did think they would catch up but uh

1002
00:42:48,230 --> 00:42:49,340
number one

1003
00:42:49,340 --> 00:42:53,500
I've been slower than I anticipated and

1004
00:42:53,500 --> 00:42:57,800
also you know HBO and and David Benioff

1005
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,020
and Dan Weiss made made decisions along

1006
00:43:00,020 --> 00:43:04,430
the way that made them catch up quicker

1007
00:43:04,430 --> 00:43:06,770
they eliminated a lot of those subplots

1008
00:43:06,770 --> 00:43:08,870
and secondary characters particularly

1009
00:43:08,870 --> 00:43:10,530
from a feast for crows and

1010
00:43:10,530 --> 00:43:12,660
for Dragons that had they included them

1011
00:43:12,660 --> 00:43:14,190
would have had another two years in

1012
00:43:14,190 --> 00:43:16,890
there during which I think I might have

1013
00:43:16,890 --> 00:43:19,980
been able to finish another book but I

1014
00:43:19,980 --> 00:43:21,900
think you have to look at this you know

1015
00:43:21,900 --> 00:43:27,180
I I often ask when questions like this

1016
00:43:27,180 --> 00:43:31,590
would put to me there the question how

1017
00:43:31,590 --> 00:43:38,270
many children did Scarlett O'Hara have

1018
00:43:38,270 --> 00:43:40,710
three children in the novel Margaret

1019
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:44,730
Mitchell's novel one child in the great

1020
00:43:44,730 --> 00:43:49,950
movie no children actually because she

1021
00:43:49,950 --> 00:43:52,400
didn't exist she's a fictional character

1022
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:58,140
so you know character doesn't exist you

1023
00:43:58,140 --> 00:44:00,990
can say she had one child you can say

1024
00:44:00,990 --> 00:44:02,940
she have three cards the same story but

1025
00:44:02,940 --> 00:44:07,410
it's two different ways of telling the

1026
00:44:07,410 --> 00:44:11,850
same story and I grew up I was a comic

1027
00:44:11,850 --> 00:44:17,220
book fan growing up so I read Superman

1028
00:44:17,220 --> 00:44:21,330
and Batman and you know Archie and all

1029
00:44:21,330 --> 00:44:23,250
these comics when I was a kid but I also

1030
00:44:23,250 --> 00:44:25,680
read classics Illustrated as that kid

1031
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,510
back in Bayonne New Jersey in the in the

1032
00:44:27,510 --> 00:44:30,150
projects his exposure to many of the

1033
00:44:30,150 --> 00:44:34,200
great works of English literature was

1034
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:35,580
through the pages of classics

1035
00:44:35,580 --> 00:44:38,910
Illustrated comic books were two worlds

1036
00:44:38,910 --> 00:44:41,580
of course voyage to the bottom of the

1037
00:44:41,580 --> 00:44:44,850
sea The Time Machine all great science

1038
00:44:44,850 --> 00:44:46,350
fiction things but I didn't stop there I

1039
00:44:46,350 --> 00:44:49,170
also read A Tale of Two Cities and house

1040
00:44:49,170 --> 00:44:51,900
of Seven Gables and Moby Dick you know

1041
00:44:51,900 --> 00:44:54,060
so you look at a book like Moby Dick

1042
00:44:54,060 --> 00:44:55,860
Moby Dick of course is one of the great

1043
00:44:55,860 --> 00:44:57,990
novels it's in the Canon of English

1044
00:44:57,990 --> 00:45:00,780
literature what is also a movie it's

1045
00:45:00,780 --> 00:45:04,200
also a comic book and that was my first

1046
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,180
exposure to Moby Dick the comic book

1047
00:45:06,180 --> 00:45:08,850
which I liked well enough so that you

1048
00:45:08,850 --> 00:45:10,890
know many many years later when I was no

1049
00:45:10,890 --> 00:45:13,470
longer a kid in grammar school but I was

1050
00:45:13,470 --> 00:45:15,480
a college student I read the novel Moby

1051
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,510
Dick which is different from the comic

1052
00:45:18,510 --> 00:45:20,640
book what asshole kind of

1053
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:22,680
the same as the comic book is sort of

1054
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:27,299
the same story and I've already kind of

1055
00:45:27,299 --> 00:45:29,130
knew the story but I was experiencing

1056
00:45:29,130 --> 00:45:31,589
the novel for the first time and I think

1057
00:45:31,589 --> 00:45:33,150
that's the philosophy you have to have

1058
00:45:33,150 --> 00:45:35,730
with what's happening with Game of

1059
00:45:35,730 --> 00:45:37,829
Thrones I mean there there will be Game

1060
00:45:37,829 --> 00:45:39,750
of Thrones the television show

1061
00:45:39,750 --> 00:45:42,630
that will be out there eight seasons you

1062
00:45:42,630 --> 00:45:44,430
know something like 80 hours of film

1063
00:45:44,430 --> 00:45:47,010
with these incredible actors and writers

1064
00:45:47,010 --> 00:45:50,190
and special effects people and stunt

1065
00:45:50,190 --> 00:45:52,079
people we've won so many Emmys and so

1066
00:45:52,079 --> 00:45:54,269
many things and there will be my set of

1067
00:45:54,269 --> 00:45:57,089
books and there are graphic novels those

1068
00:45:57,089 --> 00:45:58,950
comic book versions - and there's game

1069
00:45:58,950 --> 00:46:01,140
versions and you can so it's a world

1070
00:46:01,140 --> 00:46:03,779
it's a story that you can experience in

1071
00:46:03,779 --> 00:46:05,940
many different ways and it's you know

1072
00:46:05,940 --> 00:46:11,369
none of it really exists so if you like

1073
00:46:11,369 --> 00:46:13,140
the version where Scarlett O'Hara has

1074
00:46:13,140 --> 00:46:15,839
three children there is that version and

1075
00:46:15,839 --> 00:46:17,549
if you like two version where Scarlett

1076
00:46:17,549 --> 00:46:20,160
only had two one child there's that

1077
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,200
version but as you're sitting here

1078
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,059
shaping your version and continue to

1079
00:46:24,059 --> 00:46:27,630
work out winds of winter heading into

1080
00:46:27,630 --> 00:46:30,960
that next book dream of spring do you

1081
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:32,519
sort of see the show as maybe almost

1082
00:46:32,519 --> 00:46:34,349
being someone else working on a draft

1083
00:46:34,349 --> 00:46:37,529
that you get to watch the ebbs and flows

1084
00:46:37,529 --> 00:46:39,480
of what they do and maybe learn from

1085
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,160
what they're doing no not really

1086
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,640
back into your version you know almost

1087
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:48,269
like watching like I've worked on this

1088
00:46:48,269 --> 00:46:50,730
shot I've been a you know co-executive

1089
00:46:50,730 --> 00:46:51,990
producer on the show since the beginning

1090
00:46:51,990 --> 00:46:53,940
so David and Dan and I have had many

1091
00:46:53,940 --> 00:46:55,799
discussions and you know many of the

1092
00:46:55,799 --> 00:46:57,299
things that they're doing or they have

1093
00:46:57,299 --> 00:46:59,339
done the last two years since they got

1094
00:46:59,339 --> 00:47:00,900
ahead of me or things that I told them

1095
00:47:00,900 --> 00:47:03,029
to do or told them that I was planning

1096
00:47:03,029 --> 00:47:05,430
to do so they're just getting to it

1097
00:47:05,430 --> 00:47:08,309
first of course in other aspects they've

1098
00:47:08,309 --> 00:47:10,380
they've urged off they're doing things

1099
00:47:10,380 --> 00:47:12,299
that I would never write one thing

1100
00:47:12,299 --> 00:47:14,009
they're killing a lot more people - in

1101
00:47:14,009 --> 00:47:18,119
order to wind it up in in eight in eight

1102
00:47:18,119 --> 00:47:22,019
seasons they're clearing way of whether

1103
00:47:22,019 --> 00:47:26,099
to cast so they're there despite my

1104
00:47:26,099 --> 00:47:27,839
reputation for being the bloodiest

1105
00:47:27,839 --> 00:47:30,390
writer who ever drew breath there are

1106
00:47:30,390 --> 00:47:31,910
actually a lot

1107
00:47:31,910 --> 00:47:33,859
out of characters who are alive in the

1108
00:47:33,859 --> 00:47:37,490
books but dead in the show and some of

1109
00:47:37,490 --> 00:47:39,980
them will die in the books but maybe not

1110
00:47:39,980 --> 00:47:41,660
in the same way that they've died in the

1111
00:47:41,660 --> 00:47:43,960
show and others who are died in show

1112
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:48,530
will never die in the books so if you

1113
00:47:48,530 --> 00:47:50,030
guys want to see how many children

1114
00:47:50,030 --> 00:47:51,680
Scarlett has you'll just have to keep

1115
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,240
reading

1116
00:47:53,240 --> 00:48:00,130
[Applause]

1117
00:48:00,130 --> 00:48:03,230
stop prequels so now we have these

1118
00:48:03,230 --> 00:48:05,630
prequels and we have I think five

1119
00:48:05,630 --> 00:48:08,119
different potential projects but Jane

1120
00:48:08,119 --> 00:48:10,970
Goldman's we're scripting and

1121
00:48:10,970 --> 00:48:11,599
showrunning

1122
00:48:11,599 --> 00:48:14,690
the one that seems to be most furthest

1123
00:48:14,690 --> 00:48:17,450
along and development yeah the well

1124
00:48:17,450 --> 00:48:19,970
that's that we don't really have an

1125
00:48:19,970 --> 00:48:21,529
official title yet I'm calling it the

1126
00:48:21,529 --> 00:48:23,509
long night because it's about the wall

1127
00:48:23,509 --> 00:48:29,000
night you know the Jane Goldman's

1128
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,000
concept is that all of these shows are

1129
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,130
prequels all five that HBO has been

1130
00:48:34,130 --> 00:48:36,289
developing a prequels so none of them

1131
00:48:36,289 --> 00:48:38,329
are gonna follow game of Thrones you're

1132
00:48:38,329 --> 00:48:39,980
not gonna be seeing the further

1133
00:48:39,980 --> 00:48:42,950
adventures of Tyrion or Jon Snow or ru

1134
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:49,490
or whoever I heard that and the so these

1135
00:48:49,490 --> 00:48:51,380
were all set at various points in the

1136
00:48:51,380 --> 00:48:54,019
past and Jane has gone back further in

1137
00:48:54,019 --> 00:48:55,519
the past than anyone else and it's the

1138
00:48:55,519 --> 00:48:57,710
first show to be greenlit so Jane has

1139
00:48:57,710 --> 00:48:59,210
assembled the writers room that's

1140
00:48:59,210 --> 00:49:01,220
meeting in London even as we speak and

1141
00:49:01,220 --> 00:49:04,759
it's a I'm not at liberty to tell you

1142
00:49:04,759 --> 00:49:06,529
who's in that writing room besides Jane

1143
00:49:06,529 --> 00:49:09,170
herself but Jane Goldman herself is an

1144
00:49:09,170 --> 00:49:11,299
amazing talent and I'm very honored to

1145
00:49:11,299 --> 00:49:13,640
be working with her she's done she did

1146
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,670
the script for 2d x-men movies she did

1147
00:49:16,670 --> 00:49:20,450
both of the Kingsmen scripts if you've

1148
00:49:20,450 --> 00:49:24,799
if you've seen those she's really really

1149
00:49:24,799 --> 00:49:26,960
talented and creative British of course

1150
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,509
she's bringing a whole new sensibility

1151
00:49:29,509 --> 00:49:32,119
there to it and will probably be filming

1152
00:49:32,119 --> 00:49:34,220
it in the UK right now we just have a

1153
00:49:34,220 --> 00:49:36,339
pilot order it's not a series order but

1154
00:49:36,339 --> 00:49:38,599
they're breaking a whole series and

1155
00:49:38,599 --> 00:49:41,690
hopefully we will shoot the pilot nature

1156
00:49:41,690 --> 00:49:43,670
will like it and they will greenlight it

1157
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:45,349
but meanwhile they're also developing

1158
00:49:45,349 --> 00:49:48,769
for other series with different writers

1159
00:49:48,769 --> 00:49:51,470
set during different periods some of

1160
00:49:51,470 --> 00:49:55,430
them based on material from fire and

1161
00:49:55,430 --> 00:49:58,490
blood very substantial chunks of

1162
00:49:58,490 --> 00:50:00,559
material where they have like 500 pages

1163
00:50:00,559 --> 00:50:04,009
of my history to work with others based

1164
00:50:04,009 --> 00:50:05,329
upon

1165
00:50:05,329 --> 00:50:08,089
sentence that I was in world of ice and

1166
00:50:08,089 --> 00:50:10,009
fire somewhere so in that case the

1167
00:50:10,009 --> 00:50:14,829
writers is bringing a lot more to it and

1168
00:50:14,829 --> 00:50:16,910
how many of these will actually go to

1169
00:50:16,910 --> 00:50:19,519
Pilate how many will go to Ceres nobody

1170
00:50:19,519 --> 00:50:21,859
knows least of all me it's still in the

1171
00:50:21,859 --> 00:50:24,709
works right now but I expect that there

1172
00:50:24,709 --> 00:50:29,239
will be a game of Thrones Westeros type

1173
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,219
project on the air for many years to

1174
00:50:31,219 --> 00:50:37,519
come so if there's five different

1175
00:50:37,519 --> 00:50:39,920
projects like that do you do you sort of

1176
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:41,749
have like a wish list of like the

1177
00:50:41,749 --> 00:50:44,059
different periods of the history you

1178
00:50:44,059 --> 00:50:46,039
want to cover or do the writers come to

1179
00:50:46,039 --> 00:50:48,799
you with these pitches it's a little bit

1180
00:50:48,799 --> 00:50:51,109
of both it's a little bit of both and it

1181
00:50:51,109 --> 00:50:52,789
may not even stop at five I mean I've

1182
00:50:52,789 --> 00:50:55,130
created at least three show concepts

1183
00:50:55,130 --> 00:50:56,989
myself that I've shown HBO none of which

1184
00:50:56,989 --> 00:50:59,180
are currently in active development but

1185
00:50:59,180 --> 00:51:02,709
maybe put in Tooele minute at some point

1186
00:51:02,709 --> 00:51:09,049
so yeah yeah it's it's a who knows yeah

1187
00:51:09,049 --> 00:51:11,749
fair enough so I'm gonna jump tracks

1188
00:51:11,749 --> 00:51:13,640
here want to talk wild cards

1189
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:15,019
how many wild cards fans do we have out

1190
00:51:15,019 --> 00:51:20,569
there I mean you know it's a it's a it's

1191
00:51:20,569 --> 00:51:22,009
a nice round there but that tells me

1192
00:51:22,009 --> 00:51:23,059
there's a lot of people in here too

1193
00:51:23,059 --> 00:51:24,739
probably don't know of that series I

1194
00:51:24,739 --> 00:51:26,539
think it's one we ought to talk about a

1195
00:51:26,539 --> 00:51:28,430
little bit of length here so wild cards

1196
00:51:28,430 --> 00:51:30,140
is a superhero universe that you created

1197
00:51:30,140 --> 00:51:31,699
back in the 80s and take us back there

1198
00:51:31,699 --> 00:51:33,469
to when you were playing these

1199
00:51:33,469 --> 00:51:35,900
role-playing games with the tell us who

1200
00:51:35,900 --> 00:51:37,130
the some of the writers were in those

1201
00:51:37,130 --> 00:51:38,299
rooms when you were playing these

1202
00:51:38,299 --> 00:51:40,489
role-playing games I moved to I live in

1203
00:51:40,489 --> 00:51:42,619
Santa Fe New Mexico and when I moved

1204
00:51:42,619 --> 00:51:47,150
there in 1979 I met the local New Mexico

1205
00:51:47,150 --> 00:51:50,119
mafia of science fiction of fantasy

1206
00:51:50,119 --> 00:51:52,910
writers some of whom were pretty well

1207
00:51:52,910 --> 00:51:55,819
established like Roger Zelazny who dear

1208
00:51:55,819 --> 00:51:58,069
friend and sort of a mentor to me and

1209
00:51:58,069 --> 00:51:59,390
some of them who were just starting

1210
00:51:59,390 --> 00:52:01,249
their career they were even younger and

1211
00:52:01,249 --> 00:52:03,319
greener than myself and one of the

1212
00:52:03,319 --> 00:52:04,489
things they were doing was having a

1213
00:52:04,489 --> 00:52:05,870
role-playing game and I'd never

1214
00:52:05,870 --> 00:52:08,180
any role-playing so I was invited to

1215
00:52:08,180 --> 00:52:10,160
join them and I did and it was a

1216
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,050
tremendous amount of fun and addictive

1217
00:52:12,050 --> 00:52:16,130
probably cost me a novel or two but at a

1218
00:52:16,130 --> 00:52:17,660
certain point knowing that I had been a

1219
00:52:17,660 --> 00:52:20,030
comic fan growing up Victor Milan one of

1220
00:52:20,030 --> 00:52:22,130
the brightest in the group gave me a

1221
00:52:22,130 --> 00:52:24,440
game called super world the superhero

1222
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:26,300
role-playing game and said you were

1223
00:52:26,300 --> 00:52:27,830
you're a comic book fan why don't you

1224
00:52:27,830 --> 00:52:34,520
run this for us so I did and it became

1225
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,350
completely addictive for like two years

1226
00:52:36,350 --> 00:52:39,140
we we played this game starting one

1227
00:52:39,140 --> 00:52:41,210
night a week and then going to two and

1228
00:52:41,210 --> 00:52:44,540
then three nights a week sometimes we

1229
00:52:44,540 --> 00:52:45,950
were all right here so none of us had

1230
00:52:45,950 --> 00:52:48,770
real jobs we would we would get together

1231
00:52:48,770 --> 00:52:50,600
for dinner and then start playing at

1232
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:52,790
7:00 we would continue to play for like

1233
00:52:52,790 --> 00:52:55,130
three in the morning and then after we

1234
00:52:55,130 --> 00:52:56,870
finished a game for the night from 3 in

1235
00:52:56,870 --> 00:52:58,670
the morning till dawn we would sort of

1236
00:52:58,670 --> 00:53:01,280
rehash the game we just played and what

1237
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,530
fun it had been and this had happened

1238
00:53:03,530 --> 00:53:06,190
and that had happened

1239
00:53:06,190 --> 00:53:08,450
after a couple years of this though I

1240
00:53:08,450 --> 00:53:11,990
said you know we're spending a lot of

1241
00:53:11,990 --> 00:53:13,400
creative energy and we had had some

1242
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:15,170
great characters here and we're having a

1243
00:53:15,170 --> 00:53:17,120
lot of fun but we got to figure out a

1244
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:18,740
way to make some money off this or a

1245
00:53:18,740 --> 00:53:24,140
world and it started so it was the 80s

1246
00:53:24,140 --> 00:53:26,450
and shared worlds were very big so I

1247
00:53:26,450 --> 00:53:28,130
said we could do a shared world on this

1248
00:53:28,130 --> 00:53:29,660
and you know involve all these writers

1249
00:53:29,660 --> 00:53:32,980
everybody creating their own character

1250
00:53:32,980 --> 00:53:37,340
but you can't just you can't just take

1251
00:53:37,340 --> 00:53:40,070
your role-playing game and write it up

1252
00:53:40,070 --> 00:53:42,290
and hope it to be successful because the

1253
00:53:42,290 --> 00:53:43,580
things that make a great role-playing

1254
00:53:43,580 --> 00:53:45,170
game and the things that make for good

1255
00:53:45,170 --> 00:53:47,630
fiction are quite different so the

1256
00:53:47,630 --> 00:53:49,850
minute we decided to to try to make a

1257
00:53:49,850 --> 00:53:52,310
fiction out of this we knew we had to

1258
00:53:52,310 --> 00:53:53,330
reconsider

1259
00:53:53,330 --> 00:53:55,340
and the first thing we had to do was

1260
00:53:55,340 --> 00:53:59,390
come up with a common cause for these

1261
00:53:59,390 --> 00:54:04,100
superpowers you know normal comic books

1262
00:54:04,100 --> 00:54:07,760
every character has his own origin you

1263
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:09,920
know one character is hit by a lightning

1264
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,440
bolt another character finds a magic

1265
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:14,630
ring third character is kidnapped by

1266
00:54:14,630 --> 00:54:15,810
aliens and give

1267
00:54:15,810 --> 00:54:17,580
an anal probe that gives him strange

1268
00:54:17,580 --> 00:54:20,520
powers somebody else has written bitten

1269
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:26,520
by a radioactive wombat so okay but I

1270
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:27,930
said that doesn't make any sense in a

1271
00:54:27,930 --> 00:54:30,150
science fictional context so let's come

1272
00:54:30,150 --> 00:54:32,070
up with one thing and Melinda Snodgrass

1273
00:54:32,070 --> 00:54:36,210
said about a virus an alien virus that

1274
00:54:36,210 --> 00:54:39,960
reshapes human DNA so we we went that

1275
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,590
route and we carried over some

1276
00:54:43,590 --> 00:54:45,360
characters from the game some of the

1277
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:47,490
most popular characters but I also

1278
00:54:47,490 --> 00:54:49,860
wanted to reach beyond the gamers who

1279
00:54:49,860 --> 00:54:51,810
included Melinda Snodgrass Walter John

1280
00:54:51,810 --> 00:54:54,210
Williams Victor Millan John Joseph

1281
00:54:54,210 --> 00:54:58,440
Miller and of course Roger Zelazny was

1282
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:00,060
not a gamer but we brought him into the

1283
00:55:00,060 --> 00:55:02,220
pingas I knew there's an old comic book

1284
00:55:02,220 --> 00:55:04,440
fan my friend Howard Walter up in Texas

1285
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,550
some other Texas writers like bud Simon

1286
00:55:07,550 --> 00:55:10,490
we got all the time involved Lew shiner

1287
00:55:10,490 --> 00:55:14,880
he was very very rising star in the 80s

1288
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:17,670
and we came up with these well Curt

1289
00:55:17,670 --> 00:55:22,410
books and started this and the idea was

1290
00:55:22,410 --> 00:55:24,120
you know we were science fiction fantasy

1291
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:27,120
fans some of us were so comic fans but

1292
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:29,610
we as much as we love comic books we

1293
00:55:29,610 --> 00:55:33,030
also knew some of the problems from

1294
00:55:33,030 --> 00:55:34,650
comic books from a science fictional

1295
00:55:34,650 --> 00:55:36,690
point of view and the origins were only

1296
00:55:36,690 --> 00:55:38,670
one and we said we want to do a darker

1297
00:55:38,670 --> 00:55:41,460
grittier more realistic and science

1298
00:55:41,460 --> 00:55:43,680
fictional take on the whole idea of

1299
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:49,680
superpowers across the ocean in England

1300
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:52,050
there was a writer named Alan Moore who

1301
00:55:52,050 --> 00:55:55,410
was having similar thoughts so he came

1302
00:55:55,410 --> 00:55:58,350
up with Watchmen which was his effort to

1303
00:55:58,350 --> 00:56:02,090
do a darker and a grittier take on

1304
00:56:02,090 --> 00:56:04,800
superpowers and superheroes and what

1305
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:06,210
when and wild cards came out around the

1306
00:56:06,210 --> 00:56:07,770
same time in fact both of them were

1307
00:56:07,770 --> 00:56:10,460
nominated for you go at the New Orleans

1308
00:56:10,460 --> 00:56:14,760
Worldcon in 1988 and Watchmen Watchmen

1309
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:18,570
one it's a brilliant work what's

1310
00:56:18,570 --> 00:56:20,670
interesting to me is that Watchmen and

1311
00:56:20,670 --> 00:56:22,560
wild cards starting from the same

1312
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:26,820
premise went in completely opposite

1313
00:56:26,820 --> 00:56:29,130
directions you know we took the idea of

1314
00:56:29,130 --> 00:56:29,700
soup

1315
00:56:29,700 --> 00:56:33,360
heroes that the comic books have been

1316
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:37,550
developing for years and Allen more

1317
00:56:37,550 --> 00:56:40,920
concentrated on the hero part of that he

1318
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:43,290
largely throughout the whole concept of

1319
00:56:43,290 --> 00:56:46,260
superpowers the only I don't know how

1320
00:56:46,260 --> 00:56:47,870
many of you know Watchmen but the only

1321
00:56:47,870 --> 00:56:50,880
superheat character in Watchmen is dr.

1322
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:53,370
Manhattan he has superpowers nobody else

1323
00:56:53,370 --> 00:56:55,290
has superpowers the rest of them are

1324
00:56:55,290 --> 00:56:57,510
just guys who dress up in funny costumes

1325
00:56:57,510 --> 00:57:00,810
and go out in the street and punch bad

1326
00:57:00,810 --> 00:57:02,070
guys with their fists

1327
00:57:02,070 --> 00:57:05,430
they're the Batman template rather than

1328
00:57:05,430 --> 00:57:08,370
the Superman template and so because he

1329
00:57:08,370 --> 00:57:10,620
was fascinated by the a vigilantism and

1330
00:57:10,620 --> 00:57:12,780
heroism and you know who watches the

1331
00:57:12,780 --> 00:57:16,800
Watchmen etc myself and my wildcard

1332
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,290
writers we largely threw out the hero

1333
00:57:19,290 --> 00:57:21,600
part and we kept the super part we were

1334
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:24,270
fascinated by the idea of super powers

1335
00:57:24,270 --> 00:57:30,390
and you know if something happened in

1336
00:57:30,390 --> 00:57:33,470
our case an alien virus to the earth and

1337
00:57:33,470 --> 00:57:38,070
some people got superpowers how would it

1338
00:57:38,070 --> 00:57:39,660
change the world how would it change

1339
00:57:39,660 --> 00:57:41,760
their lives what effect would it have

1340
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:44,760
you know what effect I mean think of it

1341
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:46,290
from yourself realistically because

1342
00:57:46,290 --> 00:57:47,750
that's the way we wanted to imagine

1343
00:57:47,750 --> 00:57:50,820
everybody in this room got a superpower

1344
00:57:50,820 --> 00:57:53,070
whole differently all random you know

1345
00:57:53,070 --> 00:57:54,630
you could you could become invincible

1346
00:57:54,630 --> 00:57:56,220
and you could fly and you were the

1347
00:57:56,220 --> 00:57:57,900
strongest man in the world and you could

1348
00:57:57,900 --> 00:57:59,580
show lightning bolts from your fists

1349
00:57:59,580 --> 00:58:02,070
there what would you do how would it

1350
00:58:02,070 --> 00:58:03,630
change your life that's what we wanted

1351
00:58:03,630 --> 00:58:06,240
how would it change society what would

1352
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:07,590
you do that's the most thing and

1353
00:58:07,590 --> 00:58:09,960
whenever I ask that question to a group

1354
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:11,130
of people and I asked them to

1355
00:58:11,130 --> 00:58:13,470
realistically consider it what would you

1356
00:58:13,470 --> 00:58:17,790
do you know what nobody answers nobody

1357
00:58:17,790 --> 00:58:21,150
ever says I would buy a spandex costume

1358
00:58:21,150 --> 00:58:26,730
and fight yet that's what always happens

1359
00:58:26,730 --> 00:58:29,520
in comic books you know suddenly you can

1360
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:31,920
fly so you will buy a strand cat costume

1361
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:32,730
and fight crime

1362
00:58:32,730 --> 00:58:37,380
oh you won't and the people in wild

1363
00:58:37,380 --> 00:58:39,360
cards by and large don't a few of them

1364
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:40,770
have read too many comic books and they

1365
00:58:40,770 --> 00:58:43,200
try to do that it usually ends badly but

1366
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,440
most of them go in other directions so

1367
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,960
so wild Carson Watchmen I have evolved

1368
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:50,610
very differently it's interesting later

1369
00:58:50,610 --> 00:58:52,830
like two sides of the same coin however

1370
00:58:52,830 --> 00:58:54,690
wild Carson has been going for 30 years

1371
00:58:54,690 --> 00:58:56,760
at this point more than 30 years first

1372
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:58,890
of all came out in 1987 we just

1373
00:58:58,890 --> 00:59:03,060
published a vibe 26 and we've had comic

1374
00:59:03,060 --> 00:59:06,930
books we've had games it's it's been an

1375
00:59:06,930 --> 00:59:09,540
amazing ride we've now got up to 40

1376
00:59:09,540 --> 00:59:11,790
different writers have participated in

1377
00:59:11,790 --> 00:59:18,720
wild cards over the years how does this

1378
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:21,570
club work well we started out with the

1379
00:59:21,570 --> 00:59:23,370
gamers and what a few people that I knew

1380
00:59:23,370 --> 00:59:26,970
who were I knew love comic books and and

1381
00:59:26,970 --> 00:59:30,980
of course we're good writers themselves

1382
00:59:30,980 --> 00:59:34,740
over the years unfortunately a few of

1383
00:59:34,740 --> 00:59:37,560
them have died some of them have retired

1384
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:39,330
and stopped writing or at least they've

1385
00:59:39,330 --> 00:59:41,190
stopped writing for wild cards to pursue

1386
00:59:41,190 --> 00:59:44,190
other projects so I've brought in new

1387
00:59:44,190 --> 00:59:47,220
blood and I bring in new blood new

1388
00:59:47,220 --> 00:59:48,990
writers every few years anyway just

1389
00:59:48,990 --> 00:59:51,060
because new writers bring with them new

1390
00:59:51,060 --> 00:59:52,890
characters new concepts new ways of

1391
00:59:52,890 --> 00:59:54,990
looking at things and it shakes up the

1392
00:59:54,990 --> 00:59:57,150
universe so you're not just doing you

1393
00:59:57,150 --> 01:00:03,090
know issue 347 of Batman you're you're

1394
01:00:03,090 --> 01:00:07,290
bringing in new guys and and it's it's

1395
01:00:07,290 --> 01:00:10,080
exciting it's a fun process but I'm very

1396
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:12,150
very selective I mean don't come up to

1397
01:00:12,150 --> 01:00:14,340
me and try to sign yourself up for a

1398
01:00:14,340 --> 01:00:16,050
wild card it won't work

1399
01:00:16,050 --> 01:00:19,290
I want writers who you know are fairly

1400
01:00:19,290 --> 01:00:21,600
well established who will bring their

1401
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:23,520
own fans to because we're always looking

1402
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:25,830
at course for new readers so if a writer

1403
01:00:25,830 --> 01:00:29,580
has a fan base of their own has been

1404
01:00:29,580 --> 01:00:32,160
successful and they can come to wild

1405
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,350
cards with some great new ideas and even

1406
01:00:34,350 --> 01:00:35,790
then I the first thing you have to do to

1407
01:00:35,790 --> 01:00:37,770
create a character and I reject a lot of

1408
01:00:37,770 --> 01:00:40,530
characters because we already have a lot

1409
01:00:40,530 --> 01:00:42,810
of characters the most exciting thing in

1410
01:00:42,810 --> 01:00:44,070
the wild card front though is that we're

1411
01:00:44,070 --> 01:00:45,780
now in developing a wild card television

1412
01:00:45,780 --> 01:00:46,200
series

1413
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:51,930
so keep your eye for that we we have we

1414
01:00:51,930 --> 01:00:53,280
have a deal we're gonna be shooting

1415
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:58,140
pilots and hopefully we'll have a series

1416
01:00:58,140 --> 01:01:02,370
or two beyond that awesome so Linda

1417
01:01:02,370 --> 01:01:04,830
Scott grasses is part of that yeah yeah

1418
01:01:04,830 --> 01:01:06,840
she'll be one of the writers and the

1419
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:08,690
executive producers on the show and

1420
01:01:08,690 --> 01:01:11,250
we're talking to a lot of other very

1421
01:01:11,250 --> 01:01:13,050
talented people about coming on and

1422
01:01:13,050 --> 01:01:14,550
being part of it beautiful

1423
01:01:14,550 --> 01:01:18,390
so another show that's a much further in

1424
01:01:18,390 --> 01:01:20,400
development is night fliers that's tying

1425
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:22,230
a development it's it's coming it's here

1426
01:01:22,230 --> 01:01:23,700
that's why ours will be on this floor

1427
01:01:23,700 --> 01:01:26,520
yeah we've got that and you guys if any

1428
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,850
of you are not members of Worldcon you

1429
01:01:29,850 --> 01:01:32,070
should sign up for Worldcon we will have

1430
01:01:32,070 --> 01:01:34,140
on Thursday we'll have a night fliers

1431
01:01:34,140 --> 01:01:35,400
presentation Wow

1432
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:37,770
we will be showing a Jeff Bueller who is

1433
01:01:37,770 --> 01:01:40,560
the showrunner and wrote the pilot

1434
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:43,520
script is here and he and I will be

1435
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:47,270
screening a trailer a teaser trailer

1436
01:01:47,270 --> 01:01:52,380
from from night fliers and season one

1437
01:01:52,380 --> 01:01:54,690
and he'll be there to talk about it

1438
01:01:54,690 --> 01:01:57,150
answer your questions so that should be

1439
01:01:57,150 --> 01:01:59,280
exciting and the show will be debut on

1440
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:02,940
Syfy sometime in the fall yeah I mean

1441
01:02:02,940 --> 01:02:05,340
this is a science fiction horror story

1442
01:02:05,340 --> 01:02:08,070
that you wrote like back in 1980 1980

1443
01:02:08,070 --> 01:02:10,200
I'm talking twenty three thousand words

1444
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:11,640
gets expanded eventually into a thirty

1445
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:14,930
five thousand word version novella

1446
01:02:14,930 --> 01:02:18,810
but it was created from what I hear

1447
01:02:18,810 --> 01:02:20,700
based off of a challenge that was given

1448
01:02:20,700 --> 01:02:22,200
to you or not a challenge that was given

1449
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:23,220
to you a challenge that you took upon

1450
01:02:23,220 --> 01:02:26,520
yourself to it was a way who was the

1451
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:28,500
person that said that science fiction

1452
01:02:28,500 --> 01:02:29,160
and horror

1453
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:31,050
could not war diametrically opposed and

1454
01:02:31,050 --> 01:02:33,000
couldn't work successfully together

1455
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:34,620
within a story who was this person that

1456
01:02:34,620 --> 01:02:36,450
says this it was somebody that says you

1457
01:02:36,450 --> 01:02:38,130
know I'm not actually sure at this point

1458
01:02:38,130 --> 01:02:39,600
I'd if I look it up but I was reading

1459
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:42,870
some criticism around 1979 yeah

1460
01:02:42,870 --> 01:02:44,910
there's some book about the history of

1461
01:02:44,910 --> 01:02:47,070
science fiction or critical theory or

1462
01:02:47,070 --> 01:02:49,170
something and the critic put forward the

1463
01:02:49,170 --> 01:02:53,220
theory that science fiction on one hand

1464
01:02:53,220 --> 01:02:54,990
and horror on the other were

1465
01:02:54,990 --> 01:02:56,790
diametrically opposed

1466
01:02:56,790 --> 01:02:58,530
that one of them was all intellectual

1467
01:02:58,530 --> 01:03:02,400
and the other one was all emotional you

1468
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:04,350
know one of them appeal to our thought

1469
01:03:04,350 --> 01:03:06,120
processes and the other one appeal to

1470
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:08,910
our gutter or base instincts and that

1471
01:03:08,910 --> 01:03:11,760
they could never never mix and of course

1472
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:13,470
I took that as a challenge and what the

1473
01:03:13,470 --> 01:03:16,020
 do you mean I I'll mix them we'll

1474
01:03:16,020 --> 01:03:18,720
see so I started writing what I call my

1475
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:20,970
hybrid stories and I wrote I wrote

1476
01:03:20,970 --> 01:03:22,680
several of them over a few years

1477
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:24,390
probably the best-known was my story

1478
01:03:24,390 --> 01:03:26,190
sand kings that have prepared an omni

1479
01:03:26,190 --> 01:03:30,960
and one one day you go in the nebula and

1480
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:32,640
then a year later I wrote an expires

1481
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,100
which was also nominated for you go

1482
01:03:35,100 --> 01:03:37,610
nebula managed to lose both of them but

1483
01:03:37,610 --> 01:03:42,050
nonetheless was up was a finalist and

1484
01:03:42,050 --> 01:03:44,940
got picked up and made into this movie

1485
01:03:44,940 --> 01:03:51,120
in 1987 which no one saw but the rights

1486
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:53,790
you know I'd signed a deal that conveyed

1487
01:03:53,790 --> 01:03:56,790
film and television rights and they sort

1488
01:03:56,790 --> 01:04:00,930
of laid fellow from 1987 for 30 years

1489
01:04:00,930 --> 01:04:03,510
and then someone discovered oh look we

1490
01:04:03,510 --> 01:04:05,130
own the rights to make a television show

1491
01:04:05,130 --> 01:04:08,340
so let's do that and they have and here

1492
01:04:08,340 --> 01:04:08,850
they are

1493
01:04:08,850 --> 01:04:14,240
of course they I mean next Liars is it's

1494
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:17,280
it's been reissued you can buy copies

1495
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:19,860
it's a convention in - there's a night

1496
01:04:19,860 --> 01:04:21,330
fighters collection that flies and other

1497
01:04:21,330 --> 01:04:24,450
stories that has expires plus six of my

1498
01:04:24,450 --> 01:04:26,190
other stories and this was a very

1499
01:04:26,190 --> 01:04:28,530
handsome illustrated edition which I

1500
01:04:28,530 --> 01:04:30,150
know you'll always like - illustrator

1501
01:04:30,150 --> 01:04:31,830
which has no need a novella but some

1502
01:04:31,830 --> 01:04:33,660
beautiful art in it it's David Palumbo

1503
01:04:33,660 --> 01:04:39,870
this yes Wow so you can read take your

1504
01:04:39,870 --> 01:04:41,250
choice read two versions of the same

1505
01:04:41,250 --> 01:04:50,430
story what the the film velvet has a

1506
01:04:50,430 --> 01:04:53,190
definite end I mean you know there there

1507
01:04:53,190 --> 01:04:54,660
are a number of characters on a haunted

1508
01:04:54,660 --> 01:04:58,320
spaceship and almost all of them die so

1509
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:00,210
how am I gonna make a TV series out of

1510
01:05:00,210 --> 01:05:06,150
that so they they have Jeff if you come

1511
01:05:06,150 --> 01:05:07,850
to thing how do you how do you

1512
01:05:07,850 --> 01:05:11,450
do that so you know sometimes Scarlett

1513
01:05:11,450 --> 01:05:15,200
O'Hara has one child and sometimes code

1514
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,960
or hair has three and sometimes you kill

1515
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:21,650
all of Scarlett's children and then you

1516
01:05:21,650 --> 01:05:23,510
have to make a story of that so your

1517
01:05:23,510 --> 01:05:25,700
executive producer on that one I am yeah

1518
01:05:25,700 --> 01:05:27,500
I mean so your executive producer on a

1519
01:05:27,500 --> 01:05:29,090
number of these on all of these projects

1520
01:05:29,090 --> 01:05:31,420
that I've since Game of Thrones for sure

1521
01:05:31,420 --> 01:05:33,470
Tyson's Beauty the Beast right we

1522
01:05:33,470 --> 01:05:35,600
exactly a producer on that as well I was

1523
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:37,790
unbeaten the Beast I only reached a rank

1524
01:05:37,790 --> 01:05:40,310
of supervising producer so I want to you

1525
01:05:40,310 --> 01:05:41,930
know I mean for someone like me who

1526
01:05:41,930 --> 01:05:43,460
doesn't have experience in TV I mean

1527
01:05:43,460 --> 01:05:46,640
talk to us about what is the how much

1528
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:48,440
control and input do you have as an

1529
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:51,200
executive producer in general but really

1530
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:53,930
I also want to hear from you since Game

1531
01:05:53,930 --> 01:05:55,580
of Thrones do you have more and more

1532
01:05:55,580 --> 01:05:58,070
control or an input over these things or

1533
01:05:58,070 --> 01:05:59,990
do you even want that kind of input in

1534
01:05:59,990 --> 01:06:02,420
control as you do with more and more of

1535
01:06:02,420 --> 01:06:05,960
these projects power-mad so of course I

1536
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:10,640
always want power and control but as to

1537
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:13,010
how much I have none really

1538
01:06:13,010 --> 01:06:16,130
none yeah Hollywood is very loath to

1539
01:06:16,130 --> 01:06:20,360
give up control and even if you're like

1540
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:21,890
a showrunner who's the person who has

1541
01:06:21,890 --> 01:06:24,980
the most control you don't have complete

1542
01:06:24,980 --> 01:06:26,690
control because the network can fire you

1543
01:06:26,690 --> 01:06:29,240
at any time at the studio and there were

1544
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:32,900
always people who will you know and can

1545
01:06:32,900 --> 01:06:38,810
trump you right there so it's it's power

1546
01:06:38,810 --> 01:06:41,060
is the hardest thing to get in Hollywood

1547
01:06:41,060 --> 01:06:44,810
and creative control even some very huge

1548
01:06:44,810 --> 01:06:48,220
names don't get it I mean you look at

1549
01:06:48,220 --> 01:06:52,040
big things like the you know the Star

1550
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:54,700
Wars movies or the Star Trek movies or

1551
01:06:54,700 --> 01:06:57,020
you know some of the Marvel movies like

1552
01:06:57,020 --> 01:06:59,020
ant-man and you read about these giant

1553
01:06:59,020 --> 01:07:01,070
directors who are suddenly being fired

1554
01:07:01,070 --> 01:07:03,080
and replaced midstream by other

1555
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:04,730
directors because they ran afoul or

1556
01:07:04,730 --> 01:07:09,020
something what you do get us you rise in

1557
01:07:09,020 --> 01:07:10,340
the ranks of Hollywood you don't get

1558
01:07:10,340 --> 01:07:11,870
more power and control but you do get

1559
01:07:11,870 --> 01:07:15,290
more money which is which is good you

1560
01:07:15,290 --> 01:07:16,680
know

1561
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:19,710
you say you know your agent gets an

1562
01:07:19,710 --> 01:07:21,630
intense negotiations and you say well

1563
01:07:21,630 --> 01:07:23,790
okay you can have this story of mine to

1564
01:07:23,790 --> 01:07:26,490
make into a movie but I want script

1565
01:07:26,490 --> 01:07:29,460
approval and they'll say mm script

1566
01:07:29,460 --> 01:07:31,319
approval know how I put another million

1567
01:07:31,319 --> 01:07:36,059
dollars no I don't I don't want the baby

1568
01:07:36,059 --> 01:07:38,450
died okay could I have script approval

1569
01:07:38,450 --> 01:07:43,410
mmm two million dollars and and a piece

1570
01:07:43,410 --> 01:07:45,329
of the gross would that good you know no

1571
01:07:45,329 --> 01:07:47,490
script approval though so you'd never

1572
01:07:47,490 --> 01:07:49,680
get the power but you get giant dump

1573
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:58,380
trucks full of money so even you so even

1574
01:07:58,380 --> 01:08:00,210
you don't get that kind of control this

1575
01:08:00,210 --> 01:08:02,069
know what you have at a certain point is

1576
01:08:02,069 --> 01:08:04,770
influence yeah an influence is not the

1577
01:08:04,770 --> 01:08:06,900
same as power but it's not you know they

1578
01:08:06,900 --> 01:08:08,280
will listen to you they will take your

1579
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:10,470
calls you can make your argument about

1580
01:08:10,470 --> 01:08:12,750
you know who should be cast a particular

1581
01:08:12,750 --> 01:08:15,000
role or okay whether the story should

1582
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:17,130
end this way or that way you can try to

1583
01:08:17,130 --> 01:08:20,100
persuade them but remember that this is

1584
01:08:20,100 --> 01:08:21,810
a collaborative process there were other

1585
01:08:21,810 --> 01:08:23,880
people in them in the process other

1586
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:25,920
creative people there their directors

1587
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:28,739
there are actors who have views of how

1588
01:08:28,739 --> 01:08:30,420
their character should go their

1589
01:08:30,420 --> 01:08:32,609
directors can be very strong-minded and

1590
01:08:32,609 --> 01:08:34,170
they have a lot of power particularly in

1591
01:08:34,170 --> 01:08:36,660
features in television it's more than a

1592
01:08:36,660 --> 01:08:40,259
producer but still it's a complex thing

1593
01:08:40,259 --> 01:08:42,239
and every project is different every

1594
01:08:42,239 --> 01:08:47,400
project is a whole new ballgame so it's

1595
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:49,350
like you're a football player baseball

1596
01:08:49,350 --> 01:08:50,790
player and every season you're on a

1597
01:08:50,790 --> 01:08:52,679
different team and you don't know you

1598
01:08:52,679 --> 01:08:54,270
arrive on your new team you don't know

1599
01:08:54,270 --> 01:08:56,190
you know is the pitcher an asshole

1600
01:08:56,190 --> 01:08:59,819
what's the owner like you know who would

1601
01:08:59,819 --> 01:09:02,130
it who da goes on the team or the real

1602
01:09:02,130 --> 01:09:03,750
team players you don't know you you're

1603
01:09:03,750 --> 01:09:05,460
in a new situation you find out as you

1604
01:09:05,460 --> 01:09:07,739
go along so it's a challenging

1605
01:09:07,739 --> 01:09:09,750
profession for all you young writers if

1606
01:09:09,750 --> 01:09:12,120
you want to get into a television and

1607
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:14,940
film you're in the right state for it

1608
01:09:14,940 --> 01:09:16,560
but the wrong city get your ass down to

1609
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:18,210
LA and

1610
01:09:18,210 --> 01:09:20,700
you know then you can start getting into

1611
01:09:20,700 --> 01:09:23,910
that but it's it's a high-stress hard

1612
01:09:23,910 --> 01:09:29,430
reward yeah kind of profession yeah we

1613
01:09:29,430 --> 01:09:31,469
started off talking about worl con I

1614
01:09:31,469 --> 01:09:33,259
think we're gonna kind of wind this down

1615
01:09:33,259 --> 01:09:37,080
finishing on unknown of fandom both of

1616
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:41,670
us being fans first you know you you

1617
01:09:41,670 --> 01:09:44,400
have always been a we talked about art

1618
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:45,870
earlier in the discussion and you've

1619
01:09:45,870 --> 01:09:48,060
always been a champion for it and we

1620
01:09:48,060 --> 01:09:49,350
talked we've had a lot of conversations

1621
01:09:49,350 --> 01:09:50,850
about artists but we I've never gotten

1622
01:09:50,850 --> 01:09:53,009
to ask you you know you grew up loving

1623
01:09:53,009 --> 01:09:55,050
comic books who were your favorite comic

1624
01:09:55,050 --> 01:09:57,180
book artists and genre illustrators

1625
01:09:57,180 --> 01:10:00,090
growing up with some of those that you

1626
01:10:00,090 --> 01:10:02,969
really loved well yeah I was a comic fan

1627
01:10:02,969 --> 01:10:06,930
before I was even a science-fiction fan

1628
01:10:06,930 --> 01:10:09,600
although I started both pretty young but

1629
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:14,550
I read comic books voraciously as a in

1630
01:10:14,550 --> 01:10:16,320
grade school and all that at a certain

1631
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:20,489
point when I was like in seventh grade I

1632
01:10:20,489 --> 01:10:23,370
decided that I was too old and

1633
01:10:23,370 --> 01:10:25,860
sophisticated for comic books now so I

1634
01:10:25,860 --> 01:10:27,690
gave all my comic books away which I

1635
01:10:27,690 --> 01:10:29,969
regret to this day God but it lasted

1636
01:10:29,969 --> 01:10:32,040
only a year and then I decided to own

1637
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:33,750
that comic book looks interested and I

1638
01:10:33,750 --> 01:10:35,580
started buying them again fortunately I

1639
01:10:35,580 --> 01:10:37,230
started buying him right around the time

1640
01:10:37,230 --> 01:10:41,040
that the Marvel Comics kicked in and so

1641
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:42,390
I was right there for the beginning of

1642
01:10:42,390 --> 01:10:44,820
Marvel yeah got all that he really more

1643
01:10:44,820 --> 01:10:46,650
well things first words of mine ever

1644
01:10:46,650 --> 01:10:48,570
published were in Fantastic Four number

1645
01:10:48,570 --> 01:10:52,530
20 a letter to the you know letters page

1646
01:10:52,530 --> 01:10:58,200
dear Stan and Jack I don't know why Stan

1647
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:01,770
published it it basically said move over

1648
01:11:01,770 --> 01:11:05,300
Shakespeare's Stanley has arrived

1649
01:11:05,300 --> 01:11:08,310
why would I wish that

1650
01:11:08,310 --> 01:11:11,390
I don't know but Jack Kirby who was

1651
01:11:11,390 --> 01:11:14,210
worked with Stanley on all of those

1652
01:11:14,210 --> 01:11:17,730
titles Fantastic Four Avengers

1653
01:11:17,730 --> 01:11:20,790
etc etc of course the king of comics he

1654
01:11:20,790 --> 01:11:22,470
was called he was an amazing amazing

1655
01:11:22,470 --> 01:11:25,560
talent and he was one of my favorites

1656
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:28,230
and maybe even more than Kirby in my

1657
01:11:28,230 --> 01:11:33,990
case Steve Ditko who recently died the

1658
01:11:33,990 --> 01:11:38,850
illustrator of spider-man and Doctor

1659
01:11:38,850 --> 01:11:41,100
Strange numerous other things did Coe

1660
01:11:41,100 --> 01:11:45,270
was a unique and brilliant talent with a

1661
01:11:45,270 --> 01:11:50,970
style that was kind of unmistakable over

1662
01:11:50,970 --> 01:11:53,940
at DC at the same time the flash was

1663
01:11:53,940 --> 01:11:56,760
going it was the first Silver Age hero

1664
01:11:56,760 --> 01:11:58,710
he was illustrated by carmine infantino

1665
01:11:58,710 --> 01:12:01,050
was a brilliant artist in his own way

1666
01:12:01,050 --> 01:12:02,790
but Infantino

1667
01:12:02,790 --> 01:12:06,330
had you know the flash was running

1668
01:12:06,330 --> 01:12:07,680
around Central City which was the

1669
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:11,460
cleanest city you ever seen all the

1670
01:12:11,460 --> 01:12:14,090
buildings seemed to be yellow orange and

1671
01:12:14,090 --> 01:12:17,820
everything was in bright daylight and it

1672
01:12:17,820 --> 01:12:22,290
was you know it was great Infantino was

1673
01:12:22,290 --> 01:12:25,110
a wonderful artist but then you you got

1674
01:12:25,110 --> 01:12:28,200
into disco spider-man said in this weird

1675
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:30,030
place called New York City which was

1676
01:12:30,030 --> 01:12:32,190
much different from Central City and was

1677
01:12:32,190 --> 01:12:35,070
walking weird angles and alleys with

1678
01:12:35,070 --> 01:12:37,290
dumpsters overflowing with garbage and

1679
01:12:37,290 --> 01:12:39,810
and water towers on tops of buildings

1680
01:12:39,810 --> 01:12:42,390
and Spiderman was hanging from fire

1681
01:12:42,390 --> 01:12:45,570
escapes and all that just looks so real

1682
01:12:45,570 --> 01:12:48,270
and so lived in and so much like the

1683
01:12:48,270 --> 01:12:51,840
place that I lived that um you know it

1684
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:53,700
took me there and again kenick was with

1685
01:12:53,700 --> 01:12:55,110
dr. strange he took me to other

1686
01:12:55,110 --> 01:12:57,660
dimensions he showed me this this

1687
01:12:57,660 --> 01:12:59,760
weird-ass psychedelic before there

1688
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:05,040
even was psychedelic a great genius

1689
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:09,360
Ditko and he died just a couple months

1690
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:12,810
ago a very sad end because you know he

1691
01:13:12,810 --> 01:13:17,540
had know what to call

1692
01:13:17,540 --> 01:13:20,300
Ditko had very strong philosophical

1693
01:13:20,300 --> 01:13:25,960
political views that were I know I guess

1694
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:30,470
Objectivist I'm Randian and they got

1695
01:13:30,470 --> 01:13:32,570
stronger and stronger and to the point

1696
01:13:32,570 --> 01:13:34,700
that made him impossible to work in the

1697
01:13:34,700 --> 01:13:38,060
industry any longer so he wound up just

1698
01:13:38,060 --> 01:13:40,550
doing his own kind of fringe stuff and

1699
01:13:40,550 --> 01:13:45,050
you know he died alone in some grungy

1700
01:13:45,050 --> 01:13:48,020
apartment in Newark City and it was

1701
01:13:48,020 --> 01:13:50,030
three days before anyone found him and

1702
01:13:50,030 --> 01:13:54,890
it's such a sad end for a brilliant man

1703
01:13:54,890 --> 01:13:56,660
I had the honor of meet Steve Ditko once

1704
01:13:56,660 --> 01:13:59,780
I mean you talk about fandom I I am the

1705
01:13:59,780 --> 01:14:06,770
first comic book fan in a sense comic

1706
01:14:06,770 --> 01:14:08,690
fandom as an independent thing grew up

1707
01:14:08,690 --> 01:14:12,980
in the early 60s and you know even comic

1708
01:14:12,980 --> 01:14:14,540
fans in science fiction they've been

1709
01:14:14,540 --> 01:14:17,660
some fanzines devoted to comics even but

1710
01:14:17,660 --> 01:14:20,180
in what comic fandoms sort of took off

1711
01:14:20,180 --> 01:14:23,030
as his own thing in the early 60s and in

1712
01:14:23,030 --> 01:14:27,920
in 1964 the first Comic Con was held in

1713
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:31,220
New York City it was one day only Len

1714
01:14:31,220 --> 01:14:33,890
Wein was part of a group running it I

1715
01:14:33,890 --> 01:14:39,920
meant Len there and it was held in some

1716
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:42,530
kind of Union Hall the Workmen's the

1717
01:14:42,530 --> 01:14:45,320
working man's palace or something in

1718
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:47,390
Greenwich Village in New York City so I

1719
01:14:47,390 --> 01:14:49,730
took the bus in from Bayonne to you know

1720
01:14:49,730 --> 01:14:52,220
to attend this and I was the first guy

1721
01:14:52,220 --> 01:14:54,440
to sign up when they announced it and

1722
01:14:54,440 --> 01:14:55,640
said we're gonna have a comic book

1723
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:57,410
convention you know sign up at quarter

1724
01:14:57,410 --> 01:14:59,720
dollar fifty I sent in my dollar fifty

1725
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:01,700
so I was number one on a wish I had

1726
01:15:01,700 --> 01:15:03,470
badge number one so that made the first

1727
01:15:03,470 --> 01:15:05,680
comic book fan

1728
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:09,320
[Applause]

1729
01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:12,179
and we got there a new Elvis this tiny

1730
01:15:12,179 --> 01:15:14,429
little room would you know a few a few

1731
01:15:14,429 --> 01:15:16,650
folding chairs and the table the front

1732
01:15:16,650 --> 01:15:18,360
and they had three or four artists in

1733
01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:21,059
and fabulous Flo Steinberg who was

1734
01:15:21,059 --> 01:15:22,739
Stanley a secretary was one of the

1735
01:15:22,739 --> 01:15:25,199
guests and Steve Ditko showed up so I

1736
01:15:25,199 --> 01:15:27,239
actually get the bet Steve Ditko and you

1737
01:15:27,239 --> 01:15:28,800
know I said how much I love Doctor

1738
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:30,989
Strange and spider-man and he said he

1739
01:15:30,989 --> 01:15:32,520
had Doctor Strange was his favorite too

1740
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:35,010
and I got to shake his hand I was just a

1741
01:15:35,010 --> 01:15:37,650
little high school kid and as far as I

1742
01:15:37,650 --> 01:15:39,599
know Steve Ditko never went to another

1743
01:15:39,599 --> 01:15:41,909
convention and it's live off so I guess

1744
01:15:41,909 --> 01:15:44,520
we we terrify them saying that they're

1745
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:47,429
but but I did get to meet him and I got

1746
01:15:47,429 --> 01:15:48,900
his autograph somewhere or something I

1747
01:15:48,900 --> 01:15:50,969
hope I still have it I'm buried in one

1748
01:15:50,969 --> 01:15:53,940
of my things so it was amazing I wish it

1749
01:15:53,940 --> 01:15:57,090
continued with you know he did even

1750
01:15:57,090 --> 01:15:58,920
besides Doctor Strange and sprite around

1751
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:00,860
he did some incredible work on other

1752
01:16:00,860 --> 01:16:03,539
other things he went to Charlton where

1753
01:16:03,539 --> 01:16:07,500
invented to question and ii take on

1754
01:16:07,500 --> 01:16:08,610
Charles Blue Beetle

1755
01:16:08,610 --> 01:16:11,489
he drew captain Adam all the characters

1756
01:16:11,489 --> 01:16:13,500
that Alan Moore would rework for round

1757
01:16:13,500 --> 01:16:16,980
watchmen and then he went to DC were

1758
01:16:16,980 --> 01:16:20,389
invented shade the changing man creeper

1759
01:16:20,389 --> 01:16:23,340
incredible incredible creative talented

1760
01:16:23,340 --> 01:16:25,230
they're giving me the wraps on I wanted

1761
01:16:25,230 --> 01:16:26,429
to get into illustrator so I'm gonna

1762
01:16:26,429 --> 01:16:28,230
wrap it up with one last real quick

1763
01:16:28,230 --> 01:16:30,630
quick hitter for all the people that

1764
01:16:30,630 --> 01:16:32,039
haven't been to a world called give them

1765
01:16:32,039 --> 01:16:34,980
three things about this particular or

1766
01:16:34,980 --> 01:16:38,099
three events or three reasons why they

1767
01:16:38,099 --> 01:16:39,570
should come to this one for the people

1768
01:16:39,570 --> 01:16:41,449
who haven't been to a world calm before

1769
01:16:41,449 --> 01:16:43,349
it's the world science fiction

1770
01:16:43,349 --> 01:16:44,880
convention they've been having him since

1771
01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:48,059
1939 you know there are many bigger

1772
01:16:48,059 --> 01:16:49,739
conventions these days you may have

1773
01:16:49,739 --> 01:16:51,750
heard of San Diego comic-con Gen Con

1774
01:16:51,750 --> 01:16:54,090
Dragon Con but this is the original it

1775
01:16:54,090 --> 01:16:56,070
moves to a different city every year it

1776
01:16:56,070 --> 01:16:58,579
hasn't been in San Jose since I believe

1777
01:16:58,579 --> 01:17:02,670
2002 so who knows when it'll come back

1778
01:17:02,670 --> 01:17:05,520
here next if you're local this is your

1779
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:07,199
chance to be part of science fiction

1780
01:17:07,199 --> 01:17:09,239
history this is where the Hugo Awards

1781
01:17:09,239 --> 01:17:10,860
are giving and you can attend the you go

1782
01:17:10,860 --> 01:17:13,139
award ceremony the Oscars of science

1783
01:17:13,139 --> 01:17:14,610
fiction the oldest and most prestigious

1784
01:17:14,610 --> 01:17:17,429
award in the field

1785
01:17:17,429 --> 01:17:21,239
and I'm gonna be there John that's gonna

1786
01:17:21,239 --> 01:17:25,830
be there remember we're on a part of the

1787
01:17:25,830 --> 01:17:28,560
act I mean this is a lot of clowns and a

1788
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:31,469
lot of monkeys and at this surface there

1789
01:17:31,469 --> 01:17:34,050
they're gonna be hundreds of authors old

1790
01:17:34,050 --> 01:17:37,080
authors new authors authors of all sorts

1791
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:39,239
there's an amazing art show where you

1792
01:17:39,239 --> 01:17:41,280
can go in and you can see all these

1793
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:43,530
wonderful paintings and drawings and you

1794
01:17:43,530 --> 01:17:45,659
can even purchase some of them you can

1795
01:17:45,659 --> 01:17:47,929
bid on them there's an art auction

1796
01:17:47,929 --> 01:17:51,060
sometimes if you're short out sharp-eyed

1797
01:17:51,060 --> 01:17:53,400
you can find the next John boccaccio is

1798
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:55,920
unknown and has these cheap works that

1799
01:17:55,920 --> 01:17:57,179
you can end by and it'll be much

1800
01:17:57,179 --> 01:17:59,159
valuable in a few more years when they

1801
01:17:59,159 --> 01:18:03,870
become as famous as John Orr and theirs

1802
01:18:03,870 --> 01:18:05,820
let's see what else is there does the

1803
01:18:05,820 --> 01:18:08,880
Art Show there's panel discussions you

1804
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:10,949
know what it is it's relationships it's

1805
01:18:10,949 --> 01:18:12,719
people it's it's people who end up

1806
01:18:12,719 --> 01:18:15,719
becoming your friends that you didn't

1807
01:18:15,719 --> 01:18:17,489
you never saw these things coming either

1808
01:18:17,489 --> 01:18:21,989
I'm bringing 50 I hate what I say magic

1809
01:18:21,989 --> 01:18:25,739
onyx people of Mexican heritage and

1810
01:18:25,739 --> 01:18:27,270
extraction being that I'm Mexican

1811
01:18:27,270 --> 01:18:30,929
American myself to work on and there

1812
01:18:30,929 --> 01:18:33,510
will be having a reception this week for

1813
01:18:33,510 --> 01:18:34,340
those people

1814
01:18:34,340 --> 01:18:37,739
thanks and I will say this just to wrap

1815
01:18:37,739 --> 01:18:40,170
this up one of the things I hope to tell

1816
01:18:40,170 --> 01:18:41,400
them and maybe even a couple of y'all

1817
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:43,500
are in the audience right now but what

1818
01:18:43,500 --> 01:18:44,880
I've always found with Worldcon that I

1819
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:46,739
don't see what the other more media

1820
01:18:46,739 --> 01:18:48,719
centric cons is that you know there's

1821
01:18:48,719 --> 01:18:50,340
something magic about Worldcon word

1822
01:18:50,340 --> 01:18:52,350
there's always some sort of opportunity

1823
01:18:52,350 --> 01:18:54,929
that comes your way where you get to

1824
01:18:54,929 --> 01:18:57,780
meet someone or be it an encounter that

1825
01:18:57,780 --> 01:18:59,730
literally can change your life and

1826
01:18:59,730 --> 01:19:01,679
sometimes you don't even recognize it at

1827
01:19:01,679 --> 01:19:03,000
that moment when it's happening you

1828
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:04,409
don't realize until maybe sometimes

1829
01:19:04,409 --> 01:19:06,449
years later that Wow that happened and I

1830
01:19:06,449 --> 01:19:08,340
didn't even know it but it these things

1831
01:19:08,340 --> 01:19:09,870
always happen for you at a world Connor

1832
01:19:09,870 --> 01:19:13,320
I've found for its there's no show like

1833
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:15,710
it you can make Steve Ditko

1834
01:19:15,710 --> 01:19:18,890
or the new Steve Ditko and maybe he'll

1835
01:19:18,890 --> 01:19:20,720
never come to another convention but he

1836
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:22,790
might be here now who knows it's it's an

1837
01:19:22,790 --> 01:19:24,530
amazing experience and it's it's where

1838
01:19:24,530 --> 01:19:27,530
friendships are made and I hope to see

1839
01:19:27,530 --> 01:19:29,350
as many of you out there as possible

1840
01:19:29,350 --> 01:19:31,310
we're gonna wrap it up because they gave

1841
01:19:31,310 --> 01:19:33,350
me this the raps sign a while ago so

1842
01:19:33,350 --> 01:19:35,180
thank you again so this is the way this

1843
01:19:35,180 --> 01:19:36,920
is gonna work we're gonna call recess

1844
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:39,080
right now and we're gonna take about a

1845
01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:40,790
20-minute intermission and uh

1846
01:19:40,790 --> 01:19:43,460
I hear there's stacks of books signed by

1847
01:19:43,460 --> 01:19:47,180
this guy over there at the borderlands

1848
01:19:47,180 --> 01:19:49,040
books tables I'm gonna go ahead and head

1849
01:19:49,040 --> 01:19:50,630
over there too because I brought a few

1850
01:19:50,630 --> 01:19:51,890
prints of some of my Song of Ice and

1851
01:19:51,890 --> 01:19:54,200
Fire work for you guys it's a little 11

1852
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:56,240
by 14 s that I came up with and I'm

1853
01:19:56,240 --> 01:19:57,680
gonna scribble on them for you if you

1854
01:19:57,680 --> 01:19:59,090
want some of the proceeds from those are

1855
01:19:59,090 --> 01:20:01,340
gonna go to locus magazine so we're

1856
01:20:01,340 --> 01:20:02,840
gonna take about 20 minutes break there

1857
01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:05,180
and then we're kind of come back here in

1858
01:20:05,180 --> 01:20:07,070
some sort of orderly fashion I guess and

1859
01:20:07,070 --> 01:20:08,870
start doing some Q&A with you guys you

1860
01:20:08,870 --> 01:20:13,000
guys be all right with that yeah

1861
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:16,150
so if that sounds good to you let's call

1862
01:20:16,150 --> 01:20:17,980
recess for about 20 minutes and I'll see

1863
01:20:17,980 --> 01:20:19,150
you over there at the borderlands books

1864
01:20:19,150 --> 01:20:21,280
tables all right try to think of

1865
01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:23,640
questions that we haven't heard before

1866
01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:28,060
all right the SF and SF podcast is

1867
01:20:28,060 --> 01:20:30,490
sponsored by tachyon press the American

1868
01:20:30,490 --> 01:20:32,830
bookbinders Museum and some FM

1869
01:20:32,830 --> 01:20:34,240
listener-supported commercial free

1870
01:20:34,240 --> 01:20:36,550
internet radio with over 35 channels of

1871
01:20:36,550 --> 01:20:38,230
really interesting music to pick from

1872
01:20:38,230 --> 01:20:44,890
check it out at some FM comm alright

1873
01:20:44,890 --> 01:20:46,090
kids that was fun

1874
01:20:46,090 --> 01:20:47,560
actually over there signing all that

1875
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:48,760
stuff for you guys sorry that was such a

1876
01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:50,950
blitz but that was a lot of fun you got

1877
01:20:50,950 --> 01:20:54,070
to chill so um oh there you are

1878
01:20:54,070 --> 01:20:56,160
you all lurking over here in the shadows

1879
01:20:56,160 --> 01:21:00,400
alright so how am I gonna do this you

1880
01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:02,170
wanna make the calls do we have a

1881
01:21:02,170 --> 01:21:05,140
traveling microphone so oh so we just

1882
01:21:05,140 --> 01:21:07,180
have one on one side okay so you are all

1883
01:21:07,180 --> 01:21:09,460
lined up so I great takes the pressure

1884
01:21:09,460 --> 01:21:12,520
off that makes it easy start just you

1885
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:16,660
know batter up let's go yeah okay thank

1886
01:21:16,660 --> 01:21:18,100
you so much George for writing these

1887
01:21:18,100 --> 01:21:21,370
books and my question is so Oberon had

1888
01:21:21,370 --> 01:21:23,980
four children with hilarya he had Elia

1889
01:21:23,980 --> 01:21:27,430
Doria Oh Bella and then Larissa and my

1890
01:21:27,430 --> 01:21:29,980
question was is Larissa his mom's name

1891
01:21:29,980 --> 01:21:32,020
given that like he seems kind of like he

1892
01:21:32,020 --> 01:21:34,300
was kind of recreating his family with

1893
01:21:34,300 --> 01:21:36,730
the names of his children so you have

1894
01:21:36,730 --> 01:21:38,950
like Elia for his sister Elia who died

1895
01:21:38,950 --> 01:21:41,350
and you have Daria for his older brother

1896
01:21:41,350 --> 01:21:43,870
Doron and you have Oh Bela for his own

1897
01:21:43,870 --> 01:21:46,600
name so is Larissa his mom's name and if

1898
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:51,370
that's not what is her name

1899
01:21:51,370 --> 01:21:53,440
I think you've given us a lot more

1900
01:21:53,440 --> 01:22:03,310
thought than I ever did I uh I can tell

1901
01:22:03,310 --> 01:22:07,980
you in a general sense about naming is

1902
01:22:07,980 --> 01:22:13,930
is hard I have a I have a library even

1903
01:22:13,930 --> 01:22:16,450
though I have no children I have a small

1904
01:22:16,450 --> 01:22:18,660
library of what to name your baby books

1905
01:22:18,660 --> 01:22:20,950
that I have accumulated over the years

1906
01:22:20,950 --> 01:22:23,920
and I occasionally dip into those when I

1907
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:28,780
need a name one thing that I did with

1908
01:22:28,780 --> 01:22:31,210
with Game of Thrones and and Ice and

1909
01:22:31,210 --> 01:22:32,680
Fire

1910
01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:34,930
that violated all the rules of writing

1911
01:22:34,930 --> 01:22:36,400
and when you're a young writer and

1912
01:22:36,400 --> 01:22:38,350
you're going to writers conference and

1913
01:22:38,350 --> 01:22:40,420
all that you have the old wise writers

1914
01:22:40,420 --> 01:22:42,730
telling you rules and one of the rules

1915
01:22:42,730 --> 01:22:46,330
they tell you is never a when writing a

1916
01:22:46,330 --> 01:22:48,910
book or a short story never have two

1917
01:22:48,910 --> 01:22:51,250
characters who name begins with the last

1918
01:22:51,250 --> 01:22:53,680
letter with the same letter because the

1919
01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:58,780
reader will confuse you know Alice and

1920
01:22:58,780 --> 01:23:01,180
Amy don't have an allison and amy in the

1921
01:23:01,180 --> 01:23:03,250
same book or the reader will get them

1922
01:23:03,250 --> 01:23:06,730
confused evidently some of these writers

1923
01:23:06,730 --> 01:23:11,800
have very dim readers and i followed

1924
01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:14,170
that rule for many many years during my

1925
01:23:14,170 --> 01:23:16,900
career but when i began i said fire i

1926
01:23:16,900 --> 01:23:18,840
thought about it and said you know i

1927
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:23,320
want to have more than 26 characters so

1928
01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:26,800
I'm kind of stuck there and also I

1929
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:30,040
noticed I borrow a lot from history I

1930
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:32,260
noticed reading history that in English

1931
01:23:32,260 --> 01:23:33,060
history

1932
01:23:33,060 --> 01:23:37,390
everybody has named Henry and Edward and

1933
01:23:37,390 --> 01:23:40,390
if the English can have you know five

1934
01:23:40,390 --> 01:23:43,000
hundred years of Henry's and manage to

1935
01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:44,920
keep them straight I can have all the

1936
01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:48,520
Brandon's I wanted so I'm gonna follow

1937
01:23:48,520 --> 01:23:51,100
real-life things and I'll just depend on

1938
01:23:51,100 --> 01:23:54,300
my readers being smart enough to keep up

1939
01:23:54,300 --> 01:23:57,220
but I some of the names do have I'm not

1940
01:23:57,220 --> 01:23:58,810
gonna say all of them but some names

1941
01:23:58,810 --> 01:24:00,910
actually do have meanings where I I dip

1942
01:24:00,910 --> 01:24:02,140
into the what

1943
01:24:02,140 --> 01:24:03,580
to name your baby book so they say oh

1944
01:24:03,580 --> 01:24:06,760
look you know this this name means

1945
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:08,800
destined for a tragic end yeah that

1946
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:12,300
would be a good name for my character oh

1947
01:24:12,300 --> 01:24:16,840
I'll put that in there that's all he had

1948
01:24:16,840 --> 01:24:19,450
to say about naming yes Nick hi George

1949
01:24:19,450 --> 01:24:21,910
Matthew tower it's so nice to connect

1950
01:24:21,910 --> 01:24:24,460
with you and with the tragic passing of

1951
01:24:24,460 --> 01:24:26,650
Roy dotrice there's obviously a huge

1952
01:24:26,650 --> 01:24:28,930
vacuum for the winds of winter audiobook

1953
01:24:28,930 --> 01:24:30,970
so I wanted to ask would you consider

1954
01:24:30,970 --> 01:24:34,390
doing a dramatized full cast audiobook

1955
01:24:34,390 --> 01:24:36,370
if you've ever listened to the Philip

1956
01:24:36,370 --> 01:24:38,230
Pullman His Dark Materials Auto with

1957
01:24:38,230 --> 01:24:39,850
audiobooks they're absolutely phenomenal

1958
01:24:39,850 --> 01:24:42,220
the story circle in Britain is the

1959
01:24:42,220 --> 01:24:43,990
company that did that and I actually

1960
01:24:43,990 --> 01:24:45,910
work with him on my audiobook so I

1961
01:24:45,910 --> 01:24:47,770
wanted to recommend them if you'd

1962
01:24:47,770 --> 01:24:54,160
consider a full cast dramatized well I

1963
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:56,980
had some interesting enough I had some

1964
01:24:56,980 --> 01:24:59,200
meetings in New York when I was there a

1965
01:24:59,200 --> 01:25:02,890
few weeks ago talking about you know

1966
01:25:02,890 --> 01:25:04,560
some of these new forms of audiobooks

1967
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:06,910
audio books that are more actually like

1968
01:25:06,910 --> 01:25:10,090
radio plays or you know wit where they

1969
01:25:10,090 --> 01:25:12,700
have multiple voices playing it and they

1970
01:25:12,700 --> 01:25:14,050
have special effects and things like

1971
01:25:14,050 --> 01:25:16,750
that and we we have been looking at some

1972
01:25:16,750 --> 01:25:20,470
of that probably not for Ice and Fire

1973
01:25:20,470 --> 01:25:22,390
though I mean at least I don't control

1974
01:25:22,390 --> 01:25:25,990
that you know another another factor of

1975
01:25:25,990 --> 01:25:27,520
course that when you're dealing with

1976
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:31,600
television or film is if a studio wants

1977
01:25:31,600 --> 01:25:35,740
to buy the rights to one of your books

1978
01:25:35,740 --> 01:25:37,930
you wind up selling them all the

1979
01:25:37,930 --> 01:25:40,390
secondary and subsidiary rights too so

1980
01:25:40,390 --> 01:25:42,880
therefore you you you're giving them up

1981
01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:45,430
and it's in a case of license fire Game

1982
01:25:45,430 --> 01:25:47,530
of Thrones it's HBO who controls many of

1983
01:25:47,530 --> 01:25:49,750
these rights and bases assertions as to

1984
01:25:49,750 --> 01:25:51,850
what to develop or not develop

1985
01:25:51,850 --> 01:25:53,650
luckily enough I was in a strange

1986
01:25:53,650 --> 01:25:56,410
position when I sold that because I the

1987
01:25:56,410 --> 01:25:58,360
books had been very very popular even

1988
01:25:58,360 --> 01:26:01,030
before HBO came along so I had already

1989
01:26:01,030 --> 01:26:03,310
had a number of what we call subsidiary

1990
01:26:03,310 --> 01:26:04,930
rights deal or sub rights deals

1991
01:26:04,930 --> 01:26:09,070
I had a miniature line of miniatures

1992
01:26:09,070 --> 01:26:10,840
coming out I had

1993
01:26:10,840 --> 01:26:14,120
busts resin bus coming out I had a guy

1994
01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:17,210
who made coins and that almost killed

1995
01:26:17,210 --> 01:26:20,780
the TV deal because HBO was saying well

1996
01:26:20,780 --> 01:26:22,850
we get all subsidiary right so I can't

1997
01:26:22,850 --> 01:26:24,530
give you all sub senator right side I've

1998
01:26:24,530 --> 01:26:26,870
already sold seven I have seven deals

1999
01:26:26,870 --> 01:26:28,970
already under contract some of them like

2000
01:26:28,970 --> 01:26:31,520
five years old and they didn't

2001
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:34,460
understand they like we always get all

2002
01:26:34,460 --> 01:26:36,800
subsidiary rights what do you mean you

2003
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:38,510
can't give it I can't give it to you

2004
01:26:38,510 --> 01:26:40,010
even if I wanted to give it to you with

2005
01:26:40,010 --> 01:26:41,570
it well would you take another million

2006
01:26:41,570 --> 01:26:44,530
dollars no I can't

2007
01:26:44,530 --> 01:26:47,840
I've already sold it I sold the coin

2008
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:49,910
right to this guy who makes coins in the

2009
01:26:49,910 --> 01:26:53,270
basement from his house in Sheboygan and

2010
01:26:53,270 --> 01:26:55,340
he pays me in coins don't know how much

2011
01:26:55,340 --> 01:26:57,470
money I have a contract with him so you

2012
01:26:57,470 --> 01:27:01,660
can but we finally arrived at a deal yes

2013
01:27:01,660 --> 01:27:03,980
hi earlier you're talking about names

2014
01:27:03,980 --> 01:27:05,270
and mentioned you had notes field I was

2015
01:27:05,270 --> 01:27:07,040
just wondering if you did have a child

2016
01:27:07,040 --> 01:27:11,150
what would you name him or her if I did

2017
01:27:11,150 --> 01:27:13,640
have a child what would I name him or

2018
01:27:13,640 --> 01:27:18,500
her well I don't know probably not

2019
01:27:18,500 --> 01:27:27,830
daenerys it's too hard to spell I hardly

2020
01:27:27,830 --> 01:27:29,900
enough people do name their children

2021
01:27:29,900 --> 01:27:32,030
after my characters now and then they

2022
01:27:32,030 --> 01:27:34,310
send me two baby pictures and they email

2023
01:27:34,310 --> 01:27:36,950
so there there is an entire generation

2024
01:27:36,950 --> 01:27:40,010
of Daenerys Azari a--'s and the

2025
01:27:40,010 --> 01:27:45,710
occasional Cersei coming up I think

2026
01:27:45,710 --> 01:27:47,540
there's got to be a lot of kindergarten

2027
01:27:47,540 --> 01:27:49,430
teachers are gonna be cursing my name

2028
01:27:49,430 --> 01:27:52,550
when these Daenerys is with the AE and

2029
01:27:52,550 --> 01:27:54,890
the Y's will hit kindergarten at the

2030
01:27:54,890 --> 01:27:57,470
same time and I don't know what that

2031
01:27:57,470 --> 01:28:00,410
little girl named Cersei is gonna what

2032
01:28:00,410 --> 01:28:02,030
the mother is gonna say when she says

2033
01:28:02,030 --> 01:28:04,790
mommy who's this Cersei that I named

2034
01:28:04,790 --> 01:28:10,550
after but there you go okay so you

2035
01:28:10,550 --> 01:28:14,360
mentioned a while ago that some of your

2036
01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:17,440
characters who created with some irony

2037
01:28:17,440 --> 01:28:19,700
so I was wondering what was your

2038
01:28:19,700 --> 01:28:21,410
inspiration behind the character of

2039
01:28:21,410 --> 01:28:22,260
Davos II

2040
01:28:22,260 --> 01:28:25,380
because he seems to have a lot of

2041
01:28:25,380 --> 01:28:28,560
qualities of your typical hero like he's

2042
01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:31,050
you know strong morally just and

2043
01:28:31,050 --> 01:28:34,350
righteous but with a definite difference

2044
01:28:34,350 --> 01:28:36,480
in the fact that he's sort of at the end

2045
01:28:36,480 --> 01:28:38,850
of his life but his adventure is sort of

2046
01:28:38,850 --> 01:28:44,280
beginning well yeah you know some people

2047
01:28:44,280 --> 01:28:50,970
might say the same is true of me I don't

2048
01:28:50,970 --> 01:28:52,350
know where the particular inspiration

2049
01:28:52,350 --> 01:28:55,280
came from Davos you know I wanted to I

2050
01:28:55,280 --> 01:28:58,560
needed a point of view into the Stannis

2051
01:28:58,560 --> 01:29:02,100
camp in the war of the five kings I

2052
01:29:02,100 --> 01:29:04,350
needed a point of view there I started

2053
01:29:04,350 --> 01:29:06,090
out with his maester of course but then

2054
01:29:06,090 --> 01:29:09,210
he dies in the in a prologue so he

2055
01:29:09,210 --> 01:29:11,790
couldn't be a long long caring character

2056
01:29:11,790 --> 01:29:13,620
and Davos seemed an interesting way I

2057
01:29:13,620 --> 01:29:15,420
didn't want to make Stannis himself a

2058
01:29:15,420 --> 01:29:16,770
viewpoint character

2059
01:29:16,770 --> 01:29:19,620
I wanted something external to that but

2060
01:29:19,620 --> 01:29:23,090
Stannis is a very complex character and

2061
01:29:23,090 --> 01:29:26,130
a great character I didn't want to give

2062
01:29:26,130 --> 01:29:28,110
you his thought processes just his words

2063
01:29:28,110 --> 01:29:31,890
and actions hi there I love your

2064
01:29:31,890 --> 01:29:34,200
histories I'm really excited for the

2065
01:29:34,200 --> 01:29:35,880
illustrated fire and blood coming out

2066
01:29:35,880 --> 01:29:38,040
I'm so had a history base question I was

2067
01:29:38,040 --> 01:29:40,290
curious if bloodraven took dark sister

2068
01:29:40,290 --> 01:29:45,300
with him to the law did bloodraven take

2069
01:29:45,300 --> 01:29:47,670
dark sister with him to the wall his

2070
01:29:47,670 --> 01:29:54,960
sword dark sister yes he did yes awesome

2071
01:29:54,960 --> 01:30:01,839
thank you so much

2072
01:30:01,839 --> 01:30:04,939
thank you both so much so a couple years

2073
01:30:04,939 --> 01:30:06,800
ago you John and George you did a

2074
01:30:06,800 --> 01:30:08,449
similar type of event and Baltimore and

2075
01:30:08,449 --> 01:30:09,919
then they wrote up about they wrote up

2076
01:30:09,919 --> 01:30:11,629
some of the Q&A in the newspaper and

2077
01:30:11,629 --> 01:30:14,300
someone asked George you about fan

2078
01:30:14,300 --> 01:30:16,069
fiction and at that time you were quoted

2079
01:30:16,069 --> 01:30:18,559
as saying if you would like to arrive in

2080
01:30:18,559 --> 01:30:20,479
front of my house with a large dump

2081
01:30:20,479 --> 01:30:22,819
truck full of money I may consider

2082
01:30:22,819 --> 01:30:24,679
allowing you to do some fan fiction

2083
01:30:24,679 --> 01:30:29,719
so my question one what kind of dump

2084
01:30:29,719 --> 01:30:34,280
truck to Manu a currency and

2085
01:30:34,280 --> 01:30:45,560
denomination and three what address yeah

2086
01:30:45,560 --> 01:30:49,739
obviously a purple Tesla dump truck Oh

2087
01:30:49,739 --> 01:30:54,440
Elon doesn't make one of those yet damn

2088
01:30:54,440 --> 01:30:57,660
no will we 1 large denominations of

2089
01:30:57,660 --> 01:31:00,060
course but the address I don't know

2090
01:31:00,060 --> 01:31:01,500
you'll have to when you have the other

2091
01:31:01,500 --> 01:31:03,510
two bright red us about that will make

2092
01:31:03,510 --> 01:31:13,230
it purple Tesla thank you thank you yeah

2093
01:31:13,230 --> 01:31:15,000
so this is pretty cool thanks for doing

2094
01:31:15,000 --> 01:31:15,900
this

2095
01:31:15,900 --> 01:31:18,300
my question was I lived in Belfast for a

2096
01:31:18,300 --> 01:31:19,830
year and I found it really inspirational

2097
01:31:19,830 --> 01:31:21,929
you know sitting in the CS Lewis reading

2098
01:31:21,929 --> 01:31:24,449
room in Queens and I just wanted to kind

2099
01:31:24,449 --> 01:31:26,130
of hear your take on being in Belfast

2100
01:31:26,130 --> 01:31:27,840
with the filming and if it inspired you

2101
01:31:27,840 --> 01:31:32,000
in any way well we we love Belfast I

2102
01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:34,320
don't know if the new show will film

2103
01:31:34,320 --> 01:31:41,210
there but it's certainly a possibility

2104
01:31:41,210 --> 01:31:43,739
you know Belfast of course is in

2105
01:31:43,739 --> 01:31:46,080
Northern Ireland and those of you who

2106
01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:48,120
follow current events in history know

2107
01:31:48,120 --> 01:31:50,400
the history of the troubles in Northern

2108
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:59,010
Ireland Game of Thrones we haven't had

2109
01:31:59,010 --> 01:32:00,660
any any troubles since we've been

2110
01:32:00,660 --> 01:32:03,719
shooting there it was a concern of ours

2111
01:32:03,719 --> 01:32:06,420
when we decided to move there but we did

2112
01:32:06,420 --> 01:32:09,330
it and we've brought I think we bring

2113
01:32:09,330 --> 01:32:11,040
something like 40 million dollars a year

2114
01:32:11,040 --> 01:32:13,380
into the economy of Belfast in Northern

2115
01:32:13,380 --> 01:32:15,900
Ireland and we provide lots and lots of

2116
01:32:15,900 --> 01:32:18,420
good jobs there for both Catholics and

2117
01:32:18,420 --> 01:32:21,239
Protestants who work side-by-side on

2118
01:32:21,239 --> 01:32:24,120
Game of Thrones and its productions and

2119
01:32:24,120 --> 01:32:30,900
and I think maybe in some very little

2120
01:32:30,900 --> 01:32:34,080
little way it's helped the healing

2121
01:32:34,080 --> 01:32:36,120
process there because I think people

2122
01:32:36,120 --> 01:32:39,510
really want good lives they want good

2123
01:32:39,510 --> 01:32:41,670
jobs they want to be able to pay their

2124
01:32:41,670 --> 01:32:45,600
bills and have a house and raise their

2125
01:32:45,600 --> 01:32:47,760
kids and a safe and healthy environment

2126
01:32:47,760 --> 01:32:51,000
and provide maybe the chance of a good

2127
01:32:51,000 --> 01:32:52,469
career and a good life for their

2128
01:32:52,469 --> 01:32:54,750
children and if you give them that then

2129
01:32:54,750 --> 01:32:56,760
they're much less inclined to blow each

2130
01:32:56,760 --> 01:32:57,580
other up

2131
01:32:57,580 --> 01:33:00,850
and we kept each other and so maybe in

2132
01:33:00,850 --> 01:33:04,450
some tiny little way we've we've helped

2133
01:33:04,450 --> 01:33:07,060
and I hope we can continue to do help in

2134
01:33:07,060 --> 01:33:13,710
in northern rod I will also say that uh

2135
01:33:13,710 --> 01:33:16,870
the politicians politicians get a lot of

2136
01:33:16,870 --> 01:33:20,170
 everybody hates politicians you

2137
01:33:20,170 --> 01:33:21,760
know no matter what country you live in

2138
01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:25,720
but if you have good politicians who are

2139
01:33:25,720 --> 01:33:28,030
really concerned with helping their

2140
01:33:28,030 --> 01:33:30,730
country or their city or their state

2141
01:33:30,730 --> 01:33:32,890
they can make a big difference and that

2142
01:33:32,890 --> 01:33:35,470
is what happened that to wind us up in

2143
01:33:35,470 --> 01:33:37,900
Belfast we were looking at locations all

2144
01:33:37,900 --> 01:33:39,040
over the world when you're looking at

2145
01:33:39,040 --> 01:33:41,170
Scotland we're looking at Spain of

2146
01:33:41,170 --> 01:33:42,550
course in England we weren't looking

2147
01:33:42,550 --> 01:33:44,080
much in America because we don't have a

2148
01:33:44,080 --> 01:33:46,960
lot of castles over here but uh we were

2149
01:33:46,960 --> 01:33:49,210
looking at these other places and in

2150
01:33:49,210 --> 01:33:52,380
Belfast the leaders of the of the

2151
01:33:52,380 --> 01:33:55,050
Protestant and the Catholic groups

2152
01:33:55,050 --> 01:33:58,540
weren't McGuiness and Peter Robinson got

2153
01:33:58,540 --> 01:34:01,090
together and they put together a very

2154
01:34:01,090 --> 01:34:03,070
attractive package for HBO they came

2155
01:34:03,070 --> 01:34:07,900
over together and lobbied HBO in in LA

2156
01:34:07,900 --> 01:34:10,150
about why Belfast would be a good good

2157
01:34:10,150 --> 01:34:13,000
site and we got the paint hole we're on

2158
01:34:13,000 --> 01:34:14,980
the harland and wolff ship guards where

2159
01:34:14,980 --> 01:34:16,780
they used to paint ships like the

2160
01:34:16,780 --> 01:34:18,820
Titanic the largest sound stage in

2161
01:34:18,820 --> 01:34:20,500
Europe we get it for like a dollar a

2162
01:34:20,500 --> 01:34:22,960
year and they also gave us a million

2163
01:34:22,960 --> 01:34:27,220
dollars of money our budget is very

2164
01:34:27,220 --> 01:34:30,280
tight so you know that was very

2165
01:34:30,280 --> 01:34:31,960
controversial at the time people are

2166
01:34:31,960 --> 01:34:34,150
saying Belfast is poor people don't have

2167
01:34:34,150 --> 01:34:36,670
jobs people don't have this they don't

2168
01:34:36,670 --> 01:34:37,960
have everything and you're taking a

2169
01:34:37,960 --> 01:34:39,580
million dollars texting another and

2170
01:34:39,580 --> 01:34:42,010
you're giving it to this Hollywood fat

2171
01:34:42,010 --> 01:34:43,990
cats that kind of it's it's the same

2172
01:34:43,990 --> 01:34:45,340
thing that happens over and over again

2173
01:34:45,340 --> 01:34:46,930
in America when there are tax credits

2174
01:34:46,930 --> 01:34:49,600
well yes they did do that they gave us a

2175
01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:51,850
million dollars and what did we do we

2176
01:34:51,850 --> 01:34:54,280
bring in 40 million dollars a year into

2177
01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:55,930
their economy that's what you call a

2178
01:34:55,930 --> 01:34:58,420
smart investment if I could invest every

2179
01:34:58,420 --> 01:35:01,870
million dollars and get 40 times the

2180
01:35:01,870 --> 01:35:04,570
return on an annual basis I would take

2181
01:35:04,570 --> 01:35:06,670
that investment and that's smart

2182
01:35:06,670 --> 01:35:08,650
politicians who did something really

2183
01:35:08,650 --> 01:35:11,190
great for the people of their city and

2184
01:35:11,190 --> 01:35:19,469
Northern Ireland in general hello let me

2185
01:35:19,469 --> 01:35:21,060
first say that I was introduced to Song

2186
01:35:21,060 --> 01:35:23,070
of Ice and Fire in 2001 on the

2187
01:35:23,070 --> 01:35:25,080
recommendation of a friend the entirety

2188
01:35:25,080 --> 01:35:26,670
of the recommendation was and this is an

2189
01:35:26,670 --> 01:35:29,550
author who doesn't pull his punches the

2190
01:35:29,550 --> 01:35:31,410
books have delivered on that and then I

2191
01:35:31,410 --> 01:35:33,360
was introduced to the wildcards universe

2192
01:35:33,360 --> 01:35:35,670
by a different friend in 2003 I have a

2193
01:35:35,670 --> 01:35:36,989
two-part question about your writing

2194
01:35:36,989 --> 01:35:39,540
process and they're related um first

2195
01:35:39,540 --> 01:35:41,640
when you're starting work on a concept

2196
01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:43,739
in a speculative fiction do you find

2197
01:35:43,739 --> 01:35:45,449
yourself spending more time on world

2198
01:35:45,449 --> 01:35:48,510
building on the plot or on the

2199
01:35:48,510 --> 01:35:50,160
characters who live in that world and

2200
01:35:50,160 --> 01:35:53,070
are experiencing your story and for the

2201
01:35:53,070 --> 01:35:54,960
second part of this question I think you

2202
01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:56,699
may have a somewhat unique experience on

2203
01:35:56,699 --> 01:36:01,430
that how does this balance shift as your

2204
01:36:01,430 --> 01:36:03,540
perception of the potential of an idea

2205
01:36:03,540 --> 01:36:05,010
moves from oh this is good for a short

2206
01:36:05,010 --> 01:36:06,719
story to oh this would make a meaty

2207
01:36:06,719 --> 01:36:08,580
novel - this could be a long-running

2208
01:36:08,580 --> 01:36:11,219
series - god forbid this could be a

2209
01:36:11,219 --> 01:36:18,050
multinational multimedia juggernaut um

2210
01:36:18,050 --> 01:36:21,150
you know I'm terrible at knowing the

2211
01:36:21,150 --> 01:36:23,730
second part of that question when I

2212
01:36:23,730 --> 01:36:25,980
begin writing Game of Thrones I didn't

2213
01:36:25,980 --> 01:36:27,270
know what it was that maybe this is a

2214
01:36:27,270 --> 01:36:29,460
novella I didn't think was a short story

2215
01:36:29,460 --> 01:36:31,590
I knew that and then as I got further

2216
01:36:31,590 --> 01:36:33,300
and further writing in it and well know

2217
01:36:33,300 --> 01:36:35,190
this has got to be a novel I got a lot

2218
01:36:35,190 --> 01:36:37,260
here yeah maybe this is gonna be a

2219
01:36:37,260 --> 01:36:39,030
trilogy and in fact I sold it as a

2220
01:36:39,030 --> 01:36:41,580
trilogy initially my first contract with

2221
01:36:41,580 --> 01:36:45,060
with Bantam was for three books Game of

2222
01:36:45,060 --> 01:36:52,310
Thrones Dance with Dragons or no yeah I

2223
01:36:52,310 --> 01:36:54,330
don't forgetting my original three

2224
01:36:54,330 --> 01:37:00,660
titles but it was three books and

2225
01:37:00,660 --> 01:37:02,310
obviously even before I finished the

2226
01:37:02,310 --> 01:37:04,520
first one they had become four books and

2227
01:37:04,520 --> 01:37:08,239
then it it got even bigger from there

2228
01:37:08,239 --> 01:37:13,500
but I have you know numerous stories

2229
01:37:13,500 --> 01:37:15,630
that I began and they became a novella

2230
01:37:15,630 --> 01:37:17,040
when I thought it I thought there would

2231
01:37:17,040 --> 01:37:19,620
be a short story for me it all begins

2232
01:37:19,620 --> 01:37:21,360
with the characters characters and

2233
01:37:21,360 --> 01:37:23,820
scenes moments you know they're Game of

2234
01:37:23,820 --> 01:37:24,630
Thrones begin

2235
01:37:24,630 --> 01:37:27,000
when I had this vision of the first

2236
01:37:27,000 --> 01:37:28,620
brand chapter where they find the dire

2237
01:37:28,620 --> 01:37:32,010
wolf pups in the snow after they they go

2238
01:37:32,010 --> 01:37:33,929
to see a man executed and that came to

2239
01:37:33,929 --> 01:37:35,580
me out of nowhere it came it came from

2240
01:37:35,580 --> 01:37:37,650
out of the ether suddenly I was writing

2241
01:37:37,650 --> 01:37:39,360
an entirely different novel and suddenly

2242
01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:42,060
that scene was there and as I wrote it

2243
01:37:42,060 --> 01:37:44,489
the characters came alive and I found

2244
01:37:44,489 --> 01:37:49,020
names for them and and we were and then

2245
01:37:49,020 --> 01:37:50,520
I wrote that first chapter and then I

2246
01:37:50,520 --> 01:37:52,500
wrote a second chapter and you know one

2247
01:37:52,500 --> 01:37:55,590
thing follow or another I follow the

2248
01:37:55,590 --> 01:37:57,900
characters where they lead me and that's

2249
01:37:57,900 --> 01:38:00,630
one reason my books take so long

2250
01:38:00,630 --> 01:38:02,639
mystic my characters are treacherous

2251
01:38:02,639 --> 01:38:04,949
sons of bitches and sometimes they they

2252
01:38:04,949 --> 01:38:08,159
leave me down dead alleys and and they

2253
01:38:08,159 --> 01:38:10,260
leave me into swamps when I say I'm

2254
01:38:10,260 --> 01:38:12,480
drowning here I you son of a bitch

2255
01:38:12,480 --> 01:38:14,310
character why did you lead me here and

2256
01:38:14,310 --> 01:38:16,530
then I have to go back and find a you

2257
01:38:16,530 --> 01:38:18,750
know a road or something like that that

2258
01:38:18,750 --> 01:38:21,030
makes more sense and I rewrite and I

2259
01:38:21,030 --> 01:38:24,860
trashed chapters that I rethink things I

2260
01:38:24,860 --> 01:38:26,880
like to say there are two types of

2261
01:38:26,880 --> 01:38:28,080
writers the gardener's and the

2262
01:38:28,080 --> 01:38:30,239
architects and the architect plans

2263
01:38:30,239 --> 01:38:32,280
everything ahead of time and you know

2264
01:38:32,280 --> 01:38:34,139
like an art to head drafting a house and

2265
01:38:34,139 --> 01:38:35,760
before they even drive a nail they know

2266
01:38:35,760 --> 01:38:37,590
how many rooms the house is gonna have

2267
01:38:37,590 --> 01:38:39,239
and what the roof is going to be made of

2268
01:38:39,239 --> 01:38:41,880
and how it's gonna be heated and how

2269
01:38:41,880 --> 01:38:45,150
many bathrooms it has etcetera and only

2270
01:38:45,150 --> 01:38:47,370
when everything is decided did I buy

2271
01:38:47,370 --> 01:38:50,219
some wood and drive that voice mail the

2272
01:38:50,219 --> 01:38:52,020
gardener just digs a hole and plants a

2273
01:38:52,020 --> 01:38:53,760
seed and see what comes up and I'm a

2274
01:38:53,760 --> 01:38:56,370
gardener definitely thank you it's a

2275
01:38:56,370 --> 01:38:58,110
privilege to hear from get a peek inside

2276
01:38:58,110 --> 01:39:01,320
your heads then thanks for all the

2277
01:39:01,320 --> 01:39:02,550
inspiration George I really appreciate

2278
01:39:02,550 --> 01:39:02,820
it

2279
01:39:02,820 --> 01:39:04,380
I've one of those crazy parents that

2280
01:39:04,380 --> 01:39:09,330
named their daughter the hound so

2281
01:39:09,330 --> 01:39:09,610
[Applause]

2282
01:39:09,610 --> 01:39:10,750
[Music]

2283
01:39:10,750 --> 01:39:13,640
so appreciate that one of my favorite

2284
01:39:13,640 --> 01:39:15,890
parts of the just experience in the

2285
01:39:15,890 --> 01:39:18,470
books was what I called the part which

2286
01:39:18,470 --> 01:39:20,510
was what I used to call the red wedding

2287
01:39:20,510 --> 01:39:22,010
before it was the red wedding because

2288
01:39:22,010 --> 01:39:23,510
I'd have to tell people breathe these

2289
01:39:23,510 --> 01:39:25,250
books and then tell me when you get to

2290
01:39:25,250 --> 01:39:28,070
the part and then I would get that call

2291
01:39:28,070 --> 01:39:30,770
what's your do you have any really good

2292
01:39:30,770 --> 01:39:32,810
store what was your best reaction to

2293
01:39:32,810 --> 01:39:34,880
that part of the novel I can only

2294
01:39:34,880 --> 01:39:40,340
imagine someone came in and beat you no

2295
01:39:40,340 --> 01:39:44,780
no one beat me I did get of course you

2296
01:39:44,780 --> 01:39:47,030
have to remember that the the the book

2297
01:39:47,030 --> 01:39:48,770
came out like ten years before the TV

2298
01:39:48,770 --> 01:39:52,190
show so I already knew reaction when we

2299
01:39:52,190 --> 01:39:54,680
got to it on the TV show and all these

2300
01:39:54,680 --> 01:39:56,630
people videotaping their friends as they

2301
01:39:56,630 --> 01:39:58,550
watched it Ben and seeing the reaction

2302
01:39:58,550 --> 01:40:01,010
was no surprise with me I got the emails

2303
01:40:01,010 --> 01:40:05,540
a decade earlier and some of them said

2304
01:40:05,540 --> 01:40:08,030
things like oh I was so mad I threw the

2305
01:40:08,030 --> 01:40:09,950
book across the room and smashed it up

2306
01:40:09,950 --> 01:40:11,900
and all that and then a week later I had

2307
01:40:11,900 --> 01:40:13,550
to go out and buy another copy I like

2308
01:40:13,550 --> 01:40:20,200
that that was my royalties that was cool

2309
01:40:20,200 --> 01:40:22,490
maybe the most amazing thing about the

2310
01:40:22,490 --> 01:40:24,500
whole thing was was the reaction to the

2311
01:40:24,500 --> 01:40:27,080
TV show seeing where people actually

2312
01:40:27,080 --> 01:40:29,680
videotaped they knew their friends and

2313
01:40:29,680 --> 01:40:32,060
relatives and loved ones would be really

2314
01:40:32,060 --> 01:40:33,800
upset so they put a video camera on

2315
01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:36,140
evidence shared your reactions on

2316
01:40:36,140 --> 01:40:37,970
YouTube I don't I don't know if anything

2317
01:40:37,970 --> 01:40:39,470
like that had ever happened before us or

2318
01:40:39,470 --> 01:40:43,490
leaning in anticipate that howdy

2319
01:40:43,490 --> 01:40:45,530
shout out to the locust crowd out there

2320
01:40:45,530 --> 01:40:49,330
how thank you so much for the benefit I

2321
01:40:49,330 --> 01:40:52,550
like reading the credits I loved reading

2322
01:40:52,550 --> 01:40:55,100
the credits in the old 80s Twilight Zone

2323
01:40:55,100 --> 01:40:56,660
the first time I would have read your

2324
01:40:56,660 --> 01:41:00,140
name I loved reading Harlan Ellison's

2325
01:41:00,140 --> 01:41:02,240
name there and I really loved seeing

2326
01:41:02,240 --> 01:41:04,070
Theodora sturgeons name up there and I

2327
01:41:04,070 --> 01:41:06,290
just wondered if you had a an Ellison or

2328
01:41:06,290 --> 01:41:08,060
particularly a sturgeons story to tell

2329
01:41:08,060 --> 01:41:18,570
us

2330
01:41:18,570 --> 01:41:23,230
well I ted sturgeon of course i loved

2331
01:41:23,230 --> 01:41:25,599
his work and i did meet him a few times

2332
01:41:25,599 --> 01:41:28,300
but not well enough to have any stories

2333
01:41:28,300 --> 01:41:30,249
about it and i just to shake his hand

2334
01:41:30,249 --> 01:41:32,849
and say mrs. sturgeon i love your work

2335
01:41:32,849 --> 01:41:37,059
but god he was an amazing writer and

2336
01:41:37,059 --> 01:41:38,590
those of you who are not familiar to

2337
01:41:38,590 --> 01:41:40,960
work at ed sturgeon you should go to the

2338
01:41:40,960 --> 01:41:42,579
world clod and pick up a book of his in

2339
01:41:42,579 --> 01:41:45,210
the dealer's room and read some of it

2340
01:41:45,210 --> 01:41:52,690
incredible incredible writer Harlan

2341
01:41:52,690 --> 01:42:00,849
Ellison I I knew for many years I met

2342
01:42:00,849 --> 01:42:04,840
him first time at the 1972 Luna Con in

2343
01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:07,389
New York City where I remember I was I

2344
01:42:07,389 --> 01:42:09,280
was a young writer I'd published a few

2345
01:42:09,280 --> 01:42:11,139
things but nobody put me on any panels

2346
01:42:11,139 --> 01:42:12,849
yet but I was sitting in the audience

2347
01:42:12,849 --> 01:42:15,249
during a young writers panel and Harlan

2348
01:42:15,249 --> 01:42:17,409
was the moderator and it had people on

2349
01:42:17,409 --> 01:42:19,210
it like Jack Dan and George Alec

2350
01:42:19,210 --> 01:42:21,369
Effinger and both Altman's

2351
01:42:21,369 --> 01:42:28,380
Jo and J and coordinate uh swa-- and

2352
01:42:28,380 --> 01:42:30,460
some of you may not be old enough to

2353
01:42:30,460 --> 01:42:33,730
remember this TV show but Harlan decided

2354
01:42:33,730 --> 01:42:36,880
he would do this panel with young

2355
01:42:36,880 --> 01:42:38,920
writers in the format of the TV show

2356
01:42:38,920 --> 01:42:40,769
queen for a day

2357
01:42:40,769 --> 01:42:44,699
you know queen firday was this horrible

2358
01:42:44,699 --> 01:42:47,679
game show or whatever you would call it

2359
01:42:47,679 --> 01:42:51,880
that was on in the 50s where women would

2360
01:42:51,880 --> 01:42:53,679
come on with a contestants were always

2361
01:42:53,679 --> 01:42:56,889
women and they would have to tell how

2362
01:42:56,889 --> 01:42:59,260
poor they were and how miserable their

2363
01:42:59,260 --> 01:43:01,449
lives were and then the audience would

2364
01:43:01,449 --> 01:43:04,230
vote on which one was most miserable and

2365
01:43:04,230 --> 01:43:06,940
they would put a fake crown on her head

2366
01:43:06,940 --> 01:43:11,170
and give her a washing machine and that

2367
01:43:11,170 --> 01:43:12,760
was the format of the show a day you

2368
01:43:12,760 --> 01:43:14,530
know two women weeping about their

2369
01:43:14,530 --> 01:43:16,329
alcoholic husbands and their children

2370
01:43:16,329 --> 01:43:18,340
were sick and you know they had recently

2371
01:43:18,340 --> 01:43:19,989
been evicted from their home and you

2372
01:43:19,989 --> 01:43:21,699
know the audience would vote on that

2373
01:43:21,699 --> 01:43:24,099
so Harlan did the young writers panel in

2374
01:43:24,099 --> 01:43:24,330
that

2375
01:43:24,330 --> 01:43:26,280
format and all of the writers had to

2376
01:43:26,280 --> 01:43:29,040
tell how poor they were and the state of

2377
01:43:29,040 --> 01:43:31,580
young writers say I always remember

2378
01:43:31,580 --> 01:43:36,360
Gardner Dozois saying I'm so poor I eat

2379
01:43:36,360 --> 01:43:40,800
my cornflakes with water and then George

2380
01:43:40,800 --> 01:43:42,270
how happened or next to him said you

2381
01:43:42,270 --> 01:43:45,590
have cornflakes

2382
01:43:45,590 --> 01:43:50,520
and then at the end of it the Heartland

2383
01:43:50,520 --> 01:43:52,770
decided to raise some money for the

2384
01:43:52,770 --> 01:43:54,960
young writers as well you've heard out

2385
01:43:54,960 --> 01:43:56,820
for these guys let's get them some money

2386
01:43:56,820 --> 01:43:58,290
so that you need to in convention let's

2387
01:43:58,290 --> 01:44:00,180
see a sea of green let's see a sea of

2388
01:44:00,180 --> 01:44:02,040
green you know the thing that preachers

2389
01:44:02,040 --> 01:44:04,650
do we hold up a dollar bill no one held

2390
01:44:04,650 --> 01:44:07,770
up in a dollar bill complete

2391
01:44:07,770 --> 01:44:14,360
failure sois piped up and said all right

2392
01:44:14,360 --> 01:44:17,250
first one to hit Jack Dan and the nose

2393
01:44:17,250 --> 01:44:26,490
with a quarter in surprise and they

2394
01:44:26,490 --> 01:44:28,320
divided up that money to happen if they

2395
01:44:28,320 --> 01:44:30,180
had enough he everybody got like six

2396
01:44:30,180 --> 01:44:33,840
dollars all right I'm gonna say

2397
01:44:33,840 --> 01:44:36,810
something right now we got 17 minutes

2398
01:44:36,810 --> 01:44:38,760
and 15 people in line so I'm gonna say

2399
01:44:38,760 --> 01:44:40,980
do not do the multistage question thing

2400
01:44:40,980 --> 01:44:42,810
if you don't mind and ask him quick ask

2401
01:44:42,810 --> 01:44:44,310
him punchy let's see how many we can get

2402
01:44:44,310 --> 01:44:48,690
in no long question here George just

2403
01:44:48,690 --> 01:44:50,010
wanted to know when you were a young

2404
01:44:50,010 --> 01:44:52,770
writer when did you feel or did you have

2405
01:44:52,770 --> 01:44:54,630
a certain feeling when you were ready to

2406
01:44:54,630 --> 01:44:57,000
start doing these larger worlds like

2407
01:44:57,000 --> 01:45:00,410
Westeros and your other works as well

2408
01:45:00,410 --> 01:45:04,610
when were you ready to sort of build a

2409
01:45:04,610 --> 01:45:07,550
world with a huge cast of characters and

2410
01:45:07,550 --> 01:45:13,470
a world this big as Westeros well I mean

2411
01:45:13,470 --> 01:45:15,300
my early work of course never had that I

2412
01:45:15,300 --> 01:45:17,310
mean my early work was I did have a

2413
01:45:17,310 --> 01:45:19,290
future history most of my stuff in the

2414
01:45:19,290 --> 01:45:21,450
70s was science fiction and it all took

2415
01:45:21,450 --> 01:45:23,430
place in what I call the Thousand worlds

2416
01:45:23,430 --> 01:45:27,890
or the man realm future history of

2417
01:45:27,890 --> 01:45:30,810
distant planets and all that but the it

2418
01:45:30,810 --> 01:45:32,970
was not a series when he means it was

2419
01:45:32,970 --> 01:45:35,310
the stories took place spread over

2420
01:45:35,310 --> 01:45:37,070
thousands of years and thousands

2421
01:45:37,070 --> 01:45:40,280
light-years just part of the general

2422
01:45:40,280 --> 01:45:44,030
same template I wrote short stories for

2423
01:45:44,030 --> 01:45:46,070
six years before I even attempted a

2424
01:45:46,070 --> 01:45:50,119
novel and because novels were big and

2425
01:45:50,119 --> 01:45:52,070
intimidating to me but as I got more and

2426
01:45:52,070 --> 01:45:54,230
more confident as a writer my stories

2427
01:45:54,230 --> 01:45:56,030
got longer and longer and I started out

2428
01:45:56,030 --> 01:45:57,710
with short stories and pretty soon I was

2429
01:45:57,710 --> 01:45:59,420
ready novelettes and novellas and then

2430
01:45:59,420 --> 01:46:04,219
finally in 77 I wrote my first novel and

2431
01:46:04,219 --> 01:46:06,829
then you know as you heard I wrote a

2432
01:46:06,829 --> 01:46:08,719
number of novels I wrote the Armageddon

2433
01:46:08,719 --> 01:46:11,150
rag my career crashing burned I wound up

2434
01:46:11,150 --> 01:46:13,940
going to Hollywood and in Hollywood I

2435
01:46:13,940 --> 01:46:17,659
discovered that although they liked my

2436
01:46:17,659 --> 01:46:19,940
work there was a common complaint every

2437
01:46:19,940 --> 01:46:21,530
every time I handed a script it was

2438
01:46:21,530 --> 01:46:23,510
George this is this is too big and too

2439
01:46:23,510 --> 01:46:25,429
expensive we can't do this we love it

2440
01:46:25,429 --> 01:46:27,260
but it's great but you know you've got

2441
01:46:27,260 --> 01:46:29,270
too many characters you get the battle

2442
01:46:29,270 --> 01:46:31,159
scenes are too big you get too many

2443
01:46:31,159 --> 01:46:33,710
settings can you cut it down and course

2444
01:46:33,710 --> 01:46:34,849
I would do that that's what they were

2445
01:46:34,849 --> 01:46:36,260
paying me to do I would do the second

2446
01:46:36,260 --> 01:46:43,280
draft my third draft and cut it down but

2447
01:46:43,280 --> 01:46:44,630
I always preferred the first drafts

2448
01:46:44,630 --> 01:46:46,429
those were always the ones I liked the

2449
01:46:46,429 --> 01:46:48,349
later drafts were usually more polished

2450
01:46:48,349 --> 01:46:50,840
but the first draft was bigger and

2451
01:46:50,840 --> 01:46:53,420
juicier and had more of creativity into

2452
01:46:53,420 --> 01:46:56,540
it after ten years of that when I

2453
01:46:56,540 --> 01:46:59,420
returned to prose I was reacting against

2454
01:46:59,420 --> 01:47:02,270
that and I said I I want to do something

2455
01:47:02,270 --> 01:47:06,199
that's as big as my imagination you know

2456
01:47:06,199 --> 01:47:09,860
these these books are novels I'm not

2457
01:47:09,860 --> 01:47:12,170
limited to a budget I'm not limited to

2458
01:47:12,170 --> 01:47:15,380
what we can do you know in a seven day

2459
01:47:15,380 --> 01:47:17,719
shoot or 30 days shoot I can make them

2460
01:47:17,719 --> 01:47:19,880
as big as I want I can have incredible

2461
01:47:19,880 --> 01:47:22,010
castles I get in battles with thousands

2462
01:47:22,010 --> 01:47:23,869
and thousands of people I can have a

2463
01:47:23,869 --> 01:47:27,290
very complex plot and I can have a cast

2464
01:47:27,290 --> 01:47:29,270
of characters that will go into the

2465
01:47:29,270 --> 01:47:31,790
dozens or even the hundreds so I'm going

2466
01:47:31,790 --> 01:47:33,290
to make this big after all I don't have

2467
01:47:33,290 --> 01:47:34,699
to worry these things will never be

2468
01:47:34,699 --> 01:47:37,109
filmed

2469
01:47:37,109 --> 01:47:41,579
and that's how the gigantic cast of

2470
01:47:41,579 --> 01:47:46,019
thousands Game of Thrones camera hello

2471
01:47:46,019 --> 01:47:49,649
mr. Martin is a writer of a reader both

2472
01:47:49,649 --> 01:47:51,510
the Song of Ice and Fire trilogy and

2473
01:47:51,510 --> 01:47:54,169
some of the thousand universe world

2474
01:47:54,169 --> 01:47:57,359
there's plenty of themes there's mostly

2475
01:47:57,359 --> 01:48:00,409
an anti-war theme there's an anti

2476
01:48:00,409 --> 01:48:03,089
primogenitor theme what would you like

2477
01:48:03,089 --> 01:48:06,209
readers take away from the words and the

2478
01:48:06,209 --> 01:48:07,769
Song of Ice and Fire and do you think

2479
01:48:07,769 --> 01:48:09,329
that the show walkers will take away the

2480
01:48:09,329 --> 01:48:17,010
same theme give me the question which

2481
01:48:17,010 --> 01:48:20,849
theme of the words in yeah I don't

2482
01:48:20,849 --> 01:48:23,070
really think in those terms about you

2483
01:48:23,070 --> 01:48:24,899
know this is gonna be the theme of this

2484
01:48:24,899 --> 01:48:29,059
book I mean books contain many many

2485
01:48:29,059 --> 01:48:34,320
aspects of life and love and the world

2486
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:37,439
and politics and you're it's all grist

2487
01:48:37,439 --> 01:48:38,820
for the mill and you're all discussing

2488
01:48:38,820 --> 01:48:40,379
it and especially when you have multiple

2489
01:48:40,379 --> 01:48:42,510
viewpoints you have people looking at

2490
01:48:42,510 --> 01:48:44,909
the world that is the same in different

2491
01:48:44,909 --> 01:48:47,489
ways and having different viewpoints and

2492
01:48:47,489 --> 01:48:49,619
you give them each hopefully you as

2493
01:48:49,619 --> 01:48:51,539
honest as you tend to have that

2494
01:48:51,539 --> 01:48:53,989
character would look at these issues and

2495
01:48:53,989 --> 01:48:56,989
they may not even agree with each other

2496
01:48:56,989 --> 01:49:00,209
there are certainly messages there or I

2497
01:49:00,209 --> 01:49:02,699
don't know themes that you can ponder

2498
01:49:02,699 --> 01:49:06,269
and and think about yes but nothing that

2499
01:49:06,269 --> 01:49:08,820
can be stated in a sentence if I could

2500
01:49:08,820 --> 01:49:10,739
state it in a census I would state it in

2501
01:49:10,739 --> 01:49:12,959
a sentence and I wouldn't need to write

2502
01:49:12,959 --> 01:49:16,709
these hundreds of very very big lengthy

2503
01:49:16,709 --> 01:49:23,939
books or lots of works okay well really

2504
01:49:23,939 --> 01:49:26,639
excited to be here love your work so my

2505
01:49:26,639 --> 01:49:28,409
question is you said earlier that you

2506
01:49:28,409 --> 01:49:29,939
kind of follow your characters where

2507
01:49:29,939 --> 01:49:31,260
they go and if they lead you down the

2508
01:49:31,260 --> 01:49:32,639
wrong path you kind of have to u-turn

2509
01:49:32,639 --> 01:49:34,679
and come back I was wondering like what

2510
01:49:34,679 --> 01:49:36,510
are some of your favorite storylines

2511
01:49:36,510 --> 01:49:39,570
that almost happened but didn't and

2512
01:49:39,570 --> 01:49:40,990
thinking back on

2513
01:49:40,990 --> 01:49:42,990
oh that would be funny if I did that

2514
01:49:42,990 --> 01:49:46,390
famous favorite storylines that almost

2515
01:49:46,390 --> 01:49:48,040
happened but did not yeah like you

2516
01:49:48,040 --> 01:49:49,960
changed your mind during the writing

2517
01:49:49,960 --> 01:49:54,010
process in like I don't know that's

2518
01:49:54,010 --> 01:49:55,870
that's hard to say

2519
01:49:55,870 --> 01:49:58,090
there is one chapter that I actually

2520
01:49:58,090 --> 01:50:00,880
wrote I've talked about this before

2521
01:50:00,880 --> 01:50:03,670
it's a Tyrion chapter from Dance with

2522
01:50:03,670 --> 01:50:08,740
Dragons and it's a great chapter I

2523
01:50:08,740 --> 01:50:11,920
really liked this chapter it's very kind

2524
01:50:11,920 --> 01:50:15,070
of spooky and atmospheric and there's a

2525
01:50:15,070 --> 01:50:17,560
lot of wonderful visual imagery in it

2526
01:50:17,560 --> 01:50:20,470
and there's an amazing character you

2527
01:50:20,470 --> 01:50:23,980
know who appears for the first time in

2528
01:50:23,980 --> 01:50:28,150
that chapter and I loved that chapter

2529
01:50:28,150 --> 01:50:31,900
and then I realized that Tyrion had led

2530
01:50:31,900 --> 01:50:34,330
me into a swamp and that after this

2531
01:50:34,330 --> 01:50:37,090
chapter I didn't know what followed you

2532
01:50:37,090 --> 01:50:39,280
know where do where do I go from here I

2533
01:50:39,280 --> 01:50:41,860
tried to save that chapter during dance

2534
01:50:41,860 --> 01:50:43,690
with numerous ways I mean at first I

2535
01:50:43,690 --> 01:50:45,910
just wrote it as a chapter and then I

2536
01:50:45,910 --> 01:50:49,390
said okay maybe it'd be better if it was

2537
01:50:49,390 --> 01:50:52,210
broken up and pieces of it we'll put in

2538
01:50:52,210 --> 01:50:54,220
this chapter and in that chapter and

2539
01:50:54,220 --> 01:50:57,940
then this other chapter and no no it's

2540
01:50:57,940 --> 01:50:59,620
worse better together so I put it back

2541
01:50:59,620 --> 01:51:01,750
together maybe maybe the way to do it

2542
01:51:01,750 --> 01:51:04,000
it's a dream it didn't actually happen

2543
01:51:04,000 --> 01:51:07,210
it's very am Batarian at this dream this

2544
01:51:07,210 --> 01:51:09,400
is really cool and I finally just gave

2545
01:51:09,400 --> 01:51:11,410
up and ripped it out and said no I can

2546
01:51:11,410 --> 01:51:13,570
never just this is it

2547
01:51:13,570 --> 01:51:16,090
this is on its own terms as the perfect

2548
01:51:16,090 --> 01:51:18,970
chapter but it leads me into a morass

2549
01:51:18,970 --> 01:51:21,550
that I can't get out of so maybe someday

2550
01:51:21,550 --> 01:51:23,260
when I finish the whole thing or I'm

2551
01:51:23,260 --> 01:51:26,050
long dead my ears will publish the loss

2552
01:51:26,050 --> 01:51:33,700
Tyrion chapter hi there my question is

2553
01:51:33,700 --> 01:51:35,890
pretty simple did bittersteel have

2554
01:51:35,890 --> 01:51:37,960
children oh did bittersteel have

2555
01:51:37,960 --> 01:51:44,370
children yeah no I don't think so okay

2556
01:51:44,370 --> 01:51:47,440
hey Georgia is Kyle here from azor Ahai

2557
01:51:47,440 --> 01:51:49,240
P YouTube's Michael Chernus you've paid

2558
01:51:49,240 --> 01:51:51,850
homage to a lot of authors and different

2559
01:51:51,850 --> 01:51:53,830
stories how how does it make you feel

2560
01:51:53,830 --> 01:51:56,950
that in the future that you know your

2561
01:51:56,950 --> 01:51:58,390
characters like aria and Jon and how

2562
01:51:58,390 --> 01:52:01,660
their characters in your stories will be

2563
01:52:01,660 --> 01:52:03,550
paid homage to so how do you feel about

2564
01:52:03,550 --> 01:52:06,460
that yeah I think that's cool yes I do

2565
01:52:06,460 --> 01:52:08,320
have a number of homogeneous and tips of

2566
01:52:08,320 --> 01:52:10,120
that other authors that are in the books

2567
01:52:10,120 --> 01:52:12,550
that you can find Roger Zelazny Jack

2568
01:52:12,550 --> 01:52:15,250
Vance Robert Jordan you know other

2569
01:52:15,250 --> 01:52:18,580
friends of mine and will other writers

2570
01:52:18,580 --> 01:52:20,200
be doing that to me in the future yeah

2571
01:52:20,200 --> 01:52:21,610
maybe then that's kind of cool

2572
01:52:21,610 --> 01:52:23,710
especially if I like the writers and I

2573
01:52:23,710 --> 01:52:27,820
like their books it's been done a cage

2574
01:52:27,820 --> 01:52:30,250
like before oddly enough you know the

2575
01:52:30,250 --> 01:52:32,320
when I wrote that book the Armageddon

2576
01:52:32,320 --> 01:52:35,260
read of course the it's all about a

2577
01:52:35,260 --> 01:52:37,690
imaginary rock band called the NAS ball

2578
01:52:37,690 --> 01:52:40,720
and which of course was itself a homage

2579
01:52:40,720 --> 01:52:43,810
to Tolkien but then you know a few years

2580
01:52:43,810 --> 01:52:45,400
after the American rain came out I was

2581
01:52:45,400 --> 01:52:47,040
reading at Charles de lint book and

2582
01:52:47,040 --> 01:52:49,540
there was a scene where this guy is

2583
01:52:49,540 --> 01:52:52,360
going through the the vinyl albums of

2584
01:52:52,360 --> 01:52:54,160
his girlfriend and he finds a nazgul a

2585
01:52:54,160 --> 01:52:56,740
bum and I thought that was very cool you

2586
01:52:56,740 --> 01:52:58,180
know Colette doing a tip of the hat to

2587
01:52:58,180 --> 01:52:59,920
me so I suspect I will like it when it

2588
01:52:59,920 --> 01:53:03,790
happens where did you get the idea to

2589
01:53:03,790 --> 01:53:05,920
create parallels between your little

2590
01:53:05,920 --> 01:53:08,290
folktales in the story and the main

2591
01:53:08,290 --> 01:53:10,180
events like Daenerys here's the story

2592
01:53:10,180 --> 01:53:12,460
about the second moon wandering to the

2593
01:53:12,460 --> 01:53:14,560
Sun and cracking and giving birth to

2594
01:53:14,560 --> 01:53:16,390
dragons and then after being called moon

2595
01:53:16,390 --> 01:53:18,220
the whole moon of my life for the whole

2596
01:53:18,220 --> 01:53:20,290
book she wanders into the fire of her

2597
01:53:20,290 --> 01:53:22,450
Sun and stars and births dragons so

2598
01:53:22,450 --> 01:53:25,210
where did you get this amazing idea to

2599
01:53:25,210 --> 01:53:27,640
create these parallels between your own

2600
01:53:27,640 --> 01:53:29,830
folklore and the action there's anybody

2601
01:53:29,830 --> 01:53:32,110
else done that and what does just say

2602
01:53:32,110 --> 01:53:33,430
anything about that at all I'd be

2603
01:53:33,430 --> 01:53:36,640
thrilled well I mean any question it

2604
01:53:36,640 --> 01:53:38,050
begins with where do you get the idea

2605
01:53:38,050 --> 01:53:38,940
the answer is

2606
01:53:38,940 --> 01:53:42,660
and thankfully I get these ideas and and

2607
01:53:42,660 --> 01:53:47,310
they they tend to work more often than

2608
01:53:47,310 --> 01:53:53,550
not but I'm hardly someone I can't take

2609
01:53:53,550 --> 01:53:55,200
any credit for inventing that technique

2610
01:53:55,200 --> 01:53:57,150
I'd be another many of the writers have

2611
01:53:57,150 --> 01:53:58,880
done this where you know there's a

2612
01:53:58,880 --> 01:54:01,500
foreshadowing or there's a dream or

2613
01:54:01,500 --> 01:54:03,000
there's something like that and then you

2614
01:54:03,000 --> 01:54:05,640
see it come true when it says the organ

2615
01:54:05,640 --> 01:54:07,470
that is trying to make it come true in a

2616
01:54:07,470 --> 01:54:12,600
you know unexpected manner you know so

2617
01:54:12,600 --> 01:54:14,160
there's a prophecy and then it comes

2618
01:54:14,160 --> 01:54:16,290
true but it doesn't come true in a

2619
01:54:16,290 --> 01:54:17,760
literal sense of the way you thought it

2620
01:54:17,760 --> 01:54:18,930
would it comes true in something a

2621
01:54:18,930 --> 01:54:21,980
little more clever than that and I

2622
01:54:21,980 --> 01:54:25,830
that's kind of fun to do it can be it

2623
01:54:25,830 --> 01:54:27,930
can be tricky to do at the same time but

2624
01:54:27,930 --> 01:54:31,980
it is it is enjoyable I have thoughts

2625
01:54:31,980 --> 01:54:34,860
sometimes idea it's kind of a one of the

2626
01:54:34,860 --> 01:54:37,860
tropes of fiction you know I'm sometimes

2627
01:54:37,860 --> 01:54:40,770
accused of deconstructing fantasy

2628
01:54:40,770 --> 01:54:42,960
clichés and and all that and I plead

2629
01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:45,390
guilty to some extent I look at stuff

2630
01:54:45,390 --> 01:54:50,010
that other writers it does that's not

2631
01:54:50,010 --> 01:54:51,600
true it wouldn't work out that way or

2632
01:54:51,600 --> 01:54:53,730
you know or gosh I've seen this a

2633
01:54:53,730 --> 01:54:55,260
million times before what if I do this

2634
01:54:55,260 --> 01:54:57,960
twist on it but sometimes you can't take

2635
01:54:57,960 --> 01:54:59,370
that too far like I've often thought

2636
01:54:59,370 --> 01:55:01,920
have you noticed in fiction whenever

2637
01:55:01,920 --> 01:55:04,110
anybody has a dream in a movie a

2638
01:55:04,110 --> 01:55:06,510
television show or a book so that dream

2639
01:55:06,510 --> 01:55:08,730
has great psychological significance or

2640
01:55:08,730 --> 01:55:12,630
prophetic value that will later be very

2641
01:55:12,630 --> 01:55:15,560
important so pay attention to the dreams

2642
01:55:15,560 --> 01:55:18,510
my actual dreams make no sense

2643
01:55:18,510 --> 01:55:22,560
whatsoever they mean nothing and you

2644
01:55:22,560 --> 01:55:25,350
know I wake up and said wait a minute

2645
01:55:25,350 --> 01:55:28,380
what was this I was I dreamt I was naked

2646
01:55:28,380 --> 01:55:30,660
in my third grade geometry class and

2647
01:55:30,660 --> 01:55:34,470
then Santa Claus came in and he pulled

2648
01:55:34,470 --> 01:55:36,810
George Washington out of his sack what

2649
01:55:36,810 --> 01:55:39,260
does that mean

2650
01:55:39,260 --> 01:55:43,680
nothing so I have occasionally thought

2651
01:55:43,680 --> 01:55:45,570
hey I should write a book where the

2652
01:55:45,570 --> 01:55:47,130
characters are all having completely

2653
01:55:47,130 --> 01:55:49,410
nonsensical dreams that mean nothing and

2654
01:55:49,410 --> 01:55:51,090
the readers will go crazy trying to

2655
01:55:51,090 --> 01:55:55,290
figure it out but I haven't yielded to

2656
01:55:55,290 --> 01:55:58,770
that temptation we've got four minutes

2657
01:55:58,770 --> 01:56:01,830
so keep them punchy really really quick

2658
01:56:01,830 --> 01:56:04,770
um one there's a missing Clegane sister

2659
01:56:04,770 --> 01:56:06,420
she hasn't shown up and I'm wondering if

2660
01:56:06,420 --> 01:56:08,970
that characters shown back up in the

2661
01:56:08,970 --> 01:56:12,930
story at some point and then quickly as

2662
01:56:12,930 --> 01:56:15,810
well the the red comet that's going

2663
01:56:15,810 --> 01:56:18,120
around the Sun you stick to science lot

2664
01:56:18,120 --> 01:56:20,070
so it seems like it's gone behind the

2665
01:56:20,070 --> 01:56:23,120
Sun and are we gonna see its return trip

2666
01:56:23,120 --> 01:56:25,470
well I won't comment on future events

2667
01:56:25,470 --> 01:56:27,930
but I had fun with the red comet because

2668
01:56:27,930 --> 01:56:30,660
that was one of the usual you know let's

2669
01:56:30,660 --> 01:56:33,750
show portentous sign that every

2670
01:56:33,750 --> 01:56:35,550
character interprets differently in

2671
01:56:35,550 --> 01:56:39,750
their own favor so I thought nobody else

2672
01:56:39,750 --> 01:56:41,430
had done that quite before so I had and

2673
01:56:41,430 --> 01:56:45,270
I'm doing it yes I have rather of a

2674
01:56:45,270 --> 01:56:47,820
hopefully a fun question for you I have

2675
01:56:47,820 --> 01:56:49,800
in my hands here it's an internet meme

2676
01:56:49,800 --> 01:56:53,040
and I hope you're familiar with these

2677
01:56:53,040 --> 01:56:55,830
but it's a big picture of your face and

2678
01:56:55,830 --> 01:56:58,950
it says I don't always kill characters

2679
01:56:58,950 --> 01:57:03,840
but when I do they're your favorite I'm

2680
01:57:03,840 --> 01:57:05,850
actually really hoping that you'll sign

2681
01:57:05,850 --> 01:57:09,000
this for me later but do you have and

2682
01:57:09,000 --> 01:57:10,950
John this goes for YouTube do you do you

2683
01:57:10,950 --> 01:57:12,510
have a favorite internet meme of

2684
01:57:12,510 --> 01:57:13,290
yourself

2685
01:57:13,290 --> 01:57:14,940
that you just saw it and you just

2686
01:57:14,940 --> 01:57:24,870
laughed I I can't say I have a favorite

2687
01:57:24,870 --> 01:57:28,440
meme no I'm you know I'm really really

2688
01:57:28,440 --> 01:57:31,260
old eyed this internet thing is beyond

2689
01:57:31,260 --> 01:57:34,470
me I I still type messages to the legs

2690
01:57:34,470 --> 01:57:36,480
of ravens and

2691
01:57:36,480 --> 01:57:39,660
send them off hopefully they get

2692
01:57:39,660 --> 01:57:43,020
somewhere so I don't have a meme I'm not

2693
01:57:43,020 --> 01:57:44,730
at that level but I would say that

2694
01:57:44,730 --> 01:57:47,130
there's a cover I did for Frederick

2695
01:57:47,130 --> 01:57:49,290
Poole's gateway Random House right

2696
01:57:49,290 --> 01:57:52,560
around 2005 and this is before you know

2697
01:57:52,560 --> 01:57:55,170
we have social media and somebody

2698
01:57:55,170 --> 01:57:56,429
brought to my attention about a year ago

2699
01:57:56,429 --> 01:57:58,679
that there was a there's a set of New

2700
01:57:58,679 --> 01:58:00,210
Age there's like a network of New Age

2701
01:58:00,210 --> 01:58:02,130
sites that have taken that image and

2702
01:58:02,130 --> 01:58:04,350
have almost create like a little quasi

2703
01:58:04,350 --> 01:58:06,210
religion around this image and what it

2704
01:58:06,210 --> 01:58:07,820
means and what it means to all these

2705
01:58:07,820 --> 01:58:11,760
thousands of New Age I don't know what

2706
01:58:11,760 --> 01:58:13,739
they are meant metaphysical followers

2707
01:58:13,739 --> 01:58:16,469
and I check in on that periodically and

2708
01:58:16,469 --> 01:58:17,850
every once in a while I feel like typing

2709
01:58:17,850 --> 01:58:19,620
something in and just that not I'm not

2710
01:58:19,620 --> 01:58:21,870
that mean but yeah there's you should do

2711
01:58:21,870 --> 01:58:24,510
it but yeah that's that's the closest

2712
01:58:24,510 --> 01:58:26,130
I've come to that oh I'm wondering if

2713
01:58:26,130 --> 01:58:28,679
Joseph Campbell had any influence on you

2714
01:58:28,679 --> 01:58:38,510
as a writer and if so no John W Campbell

2715
01:58:38,510 --> 01:58:41,699
hi George so I was just curious because

2716
01:58:41,699 --> 01:58:44,280
you've you have very complex characters

2717
01:58:44,280 --> 01:58:46,110
when you were developing Game of Thrones

2718
01:58:46,110 --> 01:58:48,390
were you inspired by people you met and

2719
01:58:48,390 --> 01:58:50,660
day to day life or were they more so

2720
01:58:50,660 --> 01:58:52,830
inspirations from other stories and

2721
01:58:52,830 --> 01:58:56,130
other books and even historical context

2722
01:58:56,130 --> 01:58:59,730
well in a general sense

2723
01:58:59,730 --> 01:59:03,000
yes but I didn't like model any of them

2724
01:59:03,000 --> 01:59:06,750
on you know people I know or or some to

2725
01:59:06,750 --> 01:59:08,160
some extent they were modeled on people

2726
01:59:08,160 --> 01:59:10,860
in history but I changed them and mixed

2727
01:59:10,860 --> 01:59:13,590
up you know this from column a and this

2728
01:59:13,590 --> 01:59:16,890
from column B and wouldn't be

2729
01:59:16,890 --> 01:59:18,090
interesting when I twisted this

2730
01:59:18,090 --> 01:59:21,320
character that way I like to play with

2731
01:59:21,320 --> 01:59:24,719
cliches and tropes and try to make them

2732
01:59:24,719 --> 01:59:28,410
fresh again in a general sense yes I

2733
01:59:28,410 --> 01:59:32,160
mean I I look at my own life and the

2734
01:59:32,160 --> 01:59:34,530
people I've known during my life and the

2735
01:59:34,530 --> 01:59:36,449
people I read about in the news and in

2736
01:59:36,449 --> 01:59:39,830
biographies and histories and all of it

2737
01:59:39,830 --> 01:59:43,110
influences my view of how humanity works

2738
01:59:43,110 --> 01:59:47,179
and you know one thing I learned and

2739
01:59:47,179 --> 01:59:49,320
observed

2740
01:59:49,320 --> 01:59:52,320
decades ago is that people are

2741
01:59:52,320 --> 01:59:56,960
complicated creatures and there are no

2742
01:59:56,960 --> 02:00:01,410
real heroes or villains such as many

2743
02:00:01,410 --> 02:00:04,110
books do it we're all a combination of

2744
02:00:04,110 --> 02:00:05,580
it we all have goodness

2745
02:00:05,580 --> 02:00:08,640
we all have evil in us we're all capable

2746
02:00:08,640 --> 02:00:12,030
of doing acts of great heroism and

2747
02:00:12,030 --> 02:00:14,820
selflessness and nobility and we're all

2748
02:00:14,820 --> 02:00:17,160
capable of doing acts of incredible

2749
02:00:17,160 --> 02:00:21,810
greed and selfishness and cruelty and

2750
02:00:21,810 --> 02:00:24,810
sometimes the same people are capable of

2751
02:00:24,810 --> 02:00:26,820
both and they do one on Tuesday and

2752
02:00:26,820 --> 02:00:30,780
another one on Wednesday and that's both

2753
02:00:30,780 --> 02:00:32,940
the the Wonder and the glory and the

2754
02:00:32,940 --> 02:00:35,910
terror of human beings and I find

2755
02:00:35,910 --> 02:00:38,000
natural human beings for more

2756
02:00:38,000 --> 02:00:40,440
fascinating than the cardboard cutouts

2757
02:00:40,440 --> 02:00:42,690
that you see in a lot of television film

2758
02:00:42,690 --> 02:00:44,940
and fiction that's a pretty good way to

2759
02:00:44,940 --> 02:00:45,900
end it but I'm gonna go and let you

2760
02:00:45,900 --> 02:00:47,640
finish it that was pretty good so all

2761
02:00:47,640 --> 02:00:49,170
right we've promised the house we're

2762
02:00:49,170 --> 02:00:50,400
gonna close it down so it's gonna be the

2763
02:00:50,400 --> 02:00:51,930
last one I got a final word after that

2764
02:00:51,930 --> 02:00:53,910
go for my question is actually very

2765
02:00:53,910 --> 02:00:56,580
related to the previous question out of

2766
02:00:56,580 --> 02:01:00,120
all the characters you've created what

2767
02:01:00,120 --> 02:01:02,610
character was the most difficult for you

2768
02:01:02,610 --> 02:01:04,800
to conceive of in terms of psychology

2769
02:01:04,800 --> 02:01:13,380
and personality and why well each

2770
02:01:13,380 --> 02:01:15,690
character has their own challenges in

2771
02:01:15,690 --> 02:01:18,180
terms of Game of Thrones and some of the

2772
02:01:18,180 --> 02:01:19,500
lessons learned particularly the

2773
02:01:19,500 --> 02:01:21,240
character has been hardest to write for

2774
02:01:21,240 --> 02:01:25,320
me as brand and I think Branagh has been

2775
02:01:25,320 --> 02:01:27,150
hardest to write for two reasons one of

2776
02:01:27,150 --> 02:01:29,790
them is of all the viewpoint characters

2777
02:01:29,790 --> 02:01:32,700
he is the youngest so I have to

2778
02:01:32,700 --> 02:01:34,980
constantly go back and say okay I'm

2779
02:01:34,980 --> 02:01:36,150
running from a viewpoint of an

2780
02:01:36,150 --> 02:01:38,490
eight-year-old I would hate you I know

2781
02:01:38,490 --> 02:01:41,100
what's happening in this scene but would

2782
02:01:41,100 --> 02:01:42,600
an eight-year-old know what's happening

2783
02:01:42,600 --> 02:01:45,180
in this scene and would he understand it

2784
02:01:45,180 --> 02:01:47,360
or what he partially understand it and

2785
02:01:47,360 --> 02:01:49,590
how would he describe what's happening

2786
02:01:49,590 --> 02:01:54,150
what words would he use so that is a far

2787
02:01:54,150 --> 02:01:56,460
more artificial thing that requires me

2788
02:01:56,460 --> 02:01:58,860
to slow down and think about every every

2789
02:01:58,860 --> 02:02:01,020
sentence that I'm putting there which I

2790
02:02:01,020 --> 02:02:02,730
have when I'm reading about Cersei or

2791
02:02:02,730 --> 02:02:04,710
Tyrion or Jon Snow someone who's more

2792
02:02:04,710 --> 02:02:06,540
mature the other fact that it's

2793
02:02:06,540 --> 02:02:08,220
difficult about bran is of all the

2794
02:02:08,220 --> 02:02:10,320
characters he's involved in Game of

2795
02:02:10,320 --> 02:02:12,090
Thrones he's the one who's most involved

2796
02:02:12,090 --> 02:02:14,400
in what we can call magic for lack of

2797
02:02:14,400 --> 02:02:17,970
another word and fantasy requires magic

2798
02:02:17,970 --> 02:02:21,180
but magic is difficult if if you

2799
02:02:21,180 --> 02:02:23,190
mishandle magic you can wreck your

2800
02:02:23,190 --> 02:02:24,960
entire book you can make it make no

2801
02:02:24,960 --> 02:02:27,930
sense whatsoever so you have to be very

2802
02:02:27,930 --> 02:02:29,850
careful where magic concerns so for both

2803
02:02:29,850 --> 02:02:31,890
of these reasons although I love the

2804
02:02:31,890 --> 02:02:34,290
character bran and he's obviously a very

2805
02:02:34,290 --> 02:02:37,020
important character he's tricky to write

2806
02:02:37,020 --> 02:02:41,030
and I have to be very careful with

2807
02:02:41,030 --> 02:02:42,240
awesome

2808
02:02:42,240 --> 02:02:44,250
sorry for the folks that didn't quite

2809
02:02:44,250 --> 02:02:45,360
get in here but we're gonna go ahead and

2810
02:02:45,360 --> 02:02:47,630
close it down all right final words

2811
02:02:47,630 --> 02:02:50,940
thank you again for coming out

2812
02:02:50,940 --> 02:02:53,220
I made some promises to some people so

2813
02:02:53,220 --> 02:02:54,990
those of you that were trying to get

2814
02:02:54,990 --> 02:02:56,460
Prince signed by me I said I was going

2815
02:02:56,460 --> 02:02:57,810
to run back up through the borderlands

2816
02:02:57,810 --> 02:03:00,900
era area and I'm gonna do that

2817
02:03:00,900 --> 02:03:06,210
if Riina's around me let me let me say

2818
02:03:06,210 --> 02:03:11,850
for those of you who want to hear more

2819
02:03:11,850 --> 02:03:15,090
you know Worldcon begins on Thursday and

2820
02:03:15,090 --> 02:03:18,650
you have Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday

2821
02:03:18,650 --> 02:03:21,480
and Monday

2822
02:03:21,480 --> 02:03:25,770
of panel discussions and signings I will

2823
02:03:25,770 --> 02:03:29,040
be doing signings if you didn't get all

2824
02:03:29,040 --> 02:03:30,870
your books signed here or whatever you

2825
02:03:30,870 --> 02:03:34,980
want it's fine I have three major

2826
02:03:34,980 --> 02:03:37,560
signings that Worldcon I have I think

2827
02:03:37,560 --> 02:03:40,350
one on Friday and one on Sunday and then

2828
02:03:40,350 --> 02:03:42,150
I have a wild card signing specifically

2829
02:03:42,150 --> 02:03:44,520
for wild cards on Sunday I think a

2830
02:03:44,520 --> 02:03:46,920
general signing so there's lots of

2831
02:03:46,920 --> 02:03:48,900
opportunity to get me to sign things I'm

2832
02:03:48,900 --> 02:03:51,120
doing a panel a memorial panel and

2833
02:03:51,120 --> 02:03:53,280
Gardner Dozois my dear friend I'm doing

2834
02:03:53,280 --> 02:03:56,430
that I'm doing a wild card panel John is

2835
02:03:56,430 --> 02:03:59,030
doing a bunch of things way too much

2836
02:03:59,030 --> 02:04:02,180
lots of stuff and they're an amazing

2837
02:04:02,180 --> 02:04:04,500
line-up of other authors they're

2838
02:04:04,500 --> 02:04:08,120
hundreds of them new authors old authors

2839
02:04:08,120 --> 02:04:12,450
every kind of in-between author so come

2840
02:04:12,450 --> 02:04:14,550
to work on it your books on

2841
02:04:14,550 --> 02:04:15,809
by stuff from the dealer's room buy

2842
02:04:15,809 --> 02:04:18,929
stuff in the art show and and I'll see

2843
02:04:18,929 --> 02:04:20,070
you there I'll see you hanging around

2844
02:04:20,070 --> 02:04:22,650
the parties yeah I'll saw be in the bar

2845
02:04:22,650 --> 02:04:24,360
don't come asking ask for an autograph

2846
02:04:24,360 --> 02:04:27,329
anymore but I'd be glad to talk to you

2847
02:04:27,329 --> 02:04:28,860
you know when you go to these the bigger

2848
02:04:28,860 --> 02:04:32,570
media media centric cons we're talking

2849
02:04:32,570 --> 02:04:37,050
sometimes 20 30 40 60 if you go to a

2850
02:04:37,050 --> 02:04:38,849
limo City Comic Con it's a hundred

2851
02:04:38,849 --> 02:04:40,889
thousand people you know these are huge

2852
02:04:40,889 --> 02:04:42,690
shows at a world con we're talking

2853
02:04:42,690 --> 02:04:44,099
what's the largest tense there's ever

2854
02:04:44,099 --> 02:04:45,329
been a world con like ten thousand

2855
02:04:45,329 --> 02:04:46,679
people something yeah something like

2856
02:04:46,679 --> 02:04:48,989
that so just in terms of that math you

2857
02:04:48,989 --> 02:04:50,550
have a much better chance of being able

2858
02:04:50,550 --> 02:04:52,920
to not just get autographs but actually

2859
02:04:52,920 --> 02:04:54,510
have conversations with some of your

2860
02:04:54,510 --> 02:04:56,159
favorite creators so they do have day

2861
02:04:56,159 --> 02:04:58,559
rates at a World Con so you haven't been

2862
02:04:58,559 --> 02:05:01,139
this is your town this is your chance so

2863
02:05:01,139 --> 02:05:04,170
get out there again I'll be back there

2864
02:05:04,170 --> 02:05:06,090
signing those last few prints for those

2865
02:05:06,090 --> 02:05:07,829
people I promise and I think Reena had

2866
02:05:07,829 --> 02:05:09,360
said we're gonna be signing these

2867
02:05:09,360 --> 02:05:11,340
banners so as if we have to get to a

2868
02:05:11,340 --> 02:05:13,770
paint pen or something from somebody in

2869
02:05:13,770 --> 02:05:15,540
the back to sign these and then I think

2870
02:05:15,540 --> 02:05:16,739
she's gonna be auctioning these things

2871
02:05:16,739 --> 02:05:18,030
off and I know how that works

2872
02:05:18,030 --> 02:05:20,699
don't ask me I wish I knew Reena are you

2873
02:05:20,699 --> 02:05:23,280
in the house right now are you around

2874
02:05:23,280 --> 02:05:26,280
no she's not all right on that note of

2875
02:05:26,280 --> 02:05:28,110
question and doubt I guess we'll have to

2876
02:05:28,110 --> 02:05:30,000
wrap this thing I do all for coming yeah

2877
02:05:30,000 --> 02:05:32,820
thanks a lot everybody

2878
02:05:32,820 --> 02:05:34,300
you

2879
02:05:34,300 --> 02:05:34,950
[Music]

2880
02:05:34,950 --> 02:05:37,550
[Applause]

2881
02:05:37,550 --> 02:05:39,059
[Music]

2882
02:05:39,059 --> 02:05:42,159
you can subscribe to the SMSF podcast

2883
02:05:42,159 --> 02:05:44,889
and iTunes is searched for SF in SF

2884
02:05:44,889 --> 02:05:46,989
we're also on soundcloud at

2885
02:05:46,989 --> 02:05:51,309
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2886
02:05:51,309 --> 02:05:54,280
one word or on some FM comm and click on

2887
02:05:54,280 --> 02:05:55,960
the podcast link

2888
02:05:55,960 --> 02:05:58,389
[Music]

2889
02:05:58,389 --> 02:06:00,880
this episode was produced by marin

2890
02:06:00,880 --> 02:06:04,389
mcdonald edited and engineered by rusty

2891
02:06:04,389 --> 02:06:07,150
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2892
02:06:07,150 --> 02:06:09,100
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2893
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02:06:15,340 --> 02:06:18,100
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02:06:18,100 --> 02:06:20,469
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02:06:20,469 --> 02:06:22,540
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2898
02:06:22,540 --> 02:06:25,030
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2899
02:06:25,030 --> 02:06:28,239
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2900
02:06:28,239 --> 02:06:30,860
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