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00:00
how's it going everybody Brian alvarez
00:01
and dave meltzer here on wrestling
00:03
observer radio it is Saturday night June
00:05
14 2008 we're here to talk about the
00:08
Elite XC show some news and wrestling
00:10
got a bunch of questions from those of
00:11
you on the board a lot of them actually
00:13
about the first back issue of The
00:15
Observer that you posted the other night
00:17
you know I know I just sent you the
00:19
first one that I said I did I had no
00:21
idea was that issue well what an issue
00:22
was to send oh yeah really my god I mean
00:25
that's actually one of my more favorite
00:26
not favorite it's actually one of my
00:28
least favorite issues but it was
00:29
actually one of the more famous issues
00:31
that they ever did yeah I got a lot of
00:33
feedback I mean everybody was raving
00:35
about the issue and I actually got some
00:36
people that said that they had never
00:38
read The Observer before and that back
00:40
issue was the first one they ever read
00:41
and then they thought why did I never
00:43
read this before so it was a hell of a
00:46
first issue to put up there in the
00:47
archive so yeah I had no that was the
00:50
first one that I have on computer yeah
00:52
well well yeah we'll talk about that one
00:53
in a little ball but I wanted to talk
00:54
about Elite XC first since it just ended
00:56
and what a MMA and pro wrestling program
01:01
that was a we just saw I mean normal
01:04
show until that thing at the end and
01:06
that thing at the end was so what like
01:09
it was so good or so bad depending on
01:12
your point of view yes but I mean to be
01:14
you know it's funny I called up a friend
01:15
of mine as soon as it was over and I
01:18
said you know what and I just saw
01:21
exactly what the WB was missing I mean
01:25
it was that spontaneity timing
01:28
believability in an angle it's like they
01:32
did an angle that made you want to see a
01:33
match oh yeah
01:34
and I mean it was awesome actually you
01:37
know awesome now I mean a lot of people
01:39
hated it because they don't want to see
01:40
pro wrestling and elite exceed but you
01:42
know why would a lot of people to
01:43
understand and again and you know I mean
01:47
I really thought in some reactions
01:49
tonight okay Elite XP is not UFC okay
01:53
now all of these companies you gotta
01:55
understand this any company that's gonna
01:57
go national against UFC okay they're
01:59
going to get killed they're gonna lose
02:00
their ass and they're gonna die okay no
02:03
I don't know how to make that more clear
02:04
okay they can you can survive on a
02:06
regional basis but if you go
02:07
head-to-head with UFC you are going to
02:09
die okay now it's a given all right
02:12
however
02:13
you may have a chance if you do
02:15
something different from UFC whether
02:18
that's women's rights whether that
02:19
staged angles and this was half staged
02:21
in half not staged I mean it was soon
02:22
they sent him in the ring I don't I mean
02:24
obviously sent him in to do an angle but
02:25
in what Karl Newton's didn't all that
02:28
that wasn't staged but but you know
02:30
sending him in there and having the
02:31
confrontation to end the show obviously
02:32
that was planned now the whole point of
02:35
it is is that that built anticipation
02:37
for a match that otherwise you know
02:39
there wouldn't be that much anticipation
02:41
and when you're thirty million dollars
02:42
in the hole like click delete XE is
02:44
you've got to do something you couldn't
02:46
do anything okay and people are saying
02:49
oh they should be more sportsmen like
02:51
and this and this and this what they
02:52
will go out of business and that is not
02:56
understand about this industry everybody
02:58
loses money if they go national and you
03:00
know even with television because
03:02
television is not paying them unless you
03:03
got pay-per-view and until you know when
03:06
these companies can do a hundred
03:07
thousand buys on pay-per-view with a
03:10
match like jiraiya Faber and Jen's
03:12
Pulver okay where the two guys going in
03:15
there and they just go oh I'm so happy
03:16
to be here and I'm not knocking this
03:17
okay because it was all that was awesome
03:19
and I loved seeing it you know two guys
03:21
in there I love you know we're the
03:22
number one and number you know number
03:24
one contender and champion and I respect
03:26
you and I respect you and then go out
03:27
there and have a great fight and and you
03:31
know you know I mean if you do that and
03:32
you can do a hundred thousand buys or
03:33
whatever you need to break even and
03:35
that's wonderful and do it but if you
03:37
can't you got to figure out a way to
03:38
make money so anyway the two things that
03:41
I thought watching this were we're
03:43
number one as far as people that were
03:44
unhappy about it the pro wrestling style
03:47
stuff is really what made the CBS show a
03:51
success I mean it was another character
03:54
in the media girls and the ring
03:56
entrances and the pyro is what made it
03:58
seem like it was a major league show
04:00
instead of some boring box and show
04:02
there's a reason boxing hasn't been on
04:04
network TV in all these years and these
04:06
people want to go back to boxing boxing
04:08
is yesterday's news you've got to go to
04:09
something new that's like saying you
04:11
know as much as I love 1970s Pro
04:13
Wrestling which I actually saw tonight I
04:15
know that if you put nineteen seventy's
04:18
pro wrestling on television today it
04:20
would be nineteen seventies Pro
04:21
Wrestling and it wouldn't work you've
04:23
got to go with something that's going to
04:24
work and it's going to draw the masses
04:26
when you're on network television
04:27
and again and when you're trying to draw
04:29
people you know if again if somebody
04:32
could come in there I mean you know we
04:34
know this from Pro Wrestling because of
04:35
you know Ring of Honor and things like
04:36
that you know the limitations of just
04:38
you know the internet vans there's a
04:40
limitations and you know you if you can
04:42
make some money and if you and the guy
04:44
you know don't pay the guys a lot in all
04:45
this and stay in business that's awesome
04:47
and I love Ring of Honor it's you know
04:48
it's it's fun to watch it's great but
04:51
you know I mean to make for the guys to
04:55
make money for the thing to work on that
04:57
again on a national basis and even with
05:00
television I mean the IFL had television
05:02
they wanted to be all sportsmen like
05:04
they wanted to have their ring they
05:05
wanted to look like boxing they died
05:07
okay they didn't die because you know
05:11
you know I mean it the teams weren't a
05:13
great idea but that's not you know and
05:15
that's part of the reason they died but
05:16
you know what even if they didn't they
05:17
still you know I mean you didn't do a
05:19
team adjusted individuals and all that
05:22
because they still were going to die
05:24
yeah
05:25
anyway I was in was the IFL model in
05:28
some ways is what a lot of people want
05:30
out of their fighting but no one I mean
05:33
the masses don't want it that's the
05:35
whole key drawn to something they can't
05:41
explain why they just are you know I
05:44
mean I learned is this guys fighting in
05:46
team MMA is not in yeah but I mean I
05:48
learned this lesson a long time ago when
05:51
you know when Ric Flair and Ricky
05:53
Steamboat were going against WWE and I
05:56
mean they were putting on the greatest
05:57
matches than anyone had ever seen and I
05:59
mean they had national TV and they were
06:00
great personalities - I mean steamboats
06:02
not a great personality but but you know
06:04
I mean he was he was he was a superstar
06:06
for years and years I mean established
06:08
star Ric Flair into great personalities
06:09
of all time and the lure of seeing the
06:12
greatest match you will ever see live
06:14
was not a particularly big draw and
06:17
think about this is Ric Flair doing the
06:18
promos too so it's not like it's some
06:19
slouch doing the promos but the other
06:21
side was you know they had the lights
06:25
and the glitz and the descend the hall
06:26
and the Hulk Hogan and all that and they
06:28
kicked ass business-wise and and that's
06:31
a lesson that you know you got to learn
06:33
in an MMA it's the same thing they want
06:35
a lot of people want MMA to be exactly
06:38
what will fail for sure
06:41
MMA now I'm not saying that the other
06:42
way will succeed but I can tell you that
06:44
the other way will fail you actually had
06:46
a funny line in The Observer about Josh
06:49
gross when you the line about Josh gross
06:50
is my friend but if you were in charge
06:51
of alley taxi they would lose millions
06:53
and millions of dollars anyway yeah but
06:57
no no I mean I was reading Josh gross
06:59
and when he said the Sherman what it was
07:03
it was like we go oh cause he's mad
07:04
about the musing Kimbo in the main event
07:05
he said and then like you know the match
07:07
itself was proof of how wrong they were
07:09
used Kimbo in the main event it's like
07:10
no the rating was proof of how right
07:12
they were because I'll tell you what
07:14
when they would you know and of course
07:15
they Memphis tonight the July show guys
07:18
what no byes do I show you know and you
07:21
know what the July show I mean again
07:23
they may they may put on a really good
07:25
show and Robbie Lawler and Scott Smith
07:27
was a very good fight before it support
07:29
sport finished and it'll probably be
07:32
it's good a fight again maybe better the
07:36
second time but Robbie Lawler and Scott
07:38
Smith are not going to do a 3.0 rating I
07:41
mean if they do a 1.9 rating I would say
07:43
that that's about what I figure it's
07:45
going to turn up if they do better than
07:46
a 1.9 I think that everybody should
07:48
celebrate cuz it's you know and you know
07:50
now that was no watch I'll go do it
07:52
three and then I'll look like a fool but
07:53
they're not going to do it three they're
07:55
not going to do it without you know
07:56
would just fight you know with they're
07:58
gonna have the two people that you know
08:00
those people are gonna complain about
08:01
not being you know about you know being
08:04
the big stars pushed in the first show
08:05
junior chrono and Kimbo neither will be
08:09
on the July show and you know it'll tell
08:12
you know I mean it's not you know I mean
08:15
it's not anything I mean I'll tell you
08:17
what I mean I give you an example and
08:18
something else you know is um it's David
08:21
Beckham I mean David Beckham is is long
08:25
past his peak as a soccer player you
08:27
know I mean he was one of the best
08:28
players in the world but I was just
08:31
reading something today that when David
08:32
Beckham is in a soccer game on TV
08:36
the audience is two and a half times
08:39
larger than if he's not on TV okay so
08:43
you know he and he's getting paid
08:45
millions and millions and millions but I
08:46
mean is he the best player in the world
08:48
you know you know he's not he's no not
08:50
even close anymore
08:51
but it's like
08:53
the biggest draw and and the people will
08:56
watch the biggest draw they're not you
08:58
know the biggest star or whatever it is
09:00
you know because of you know whether
09:01
it's because of his you know you know
09:04
his girlfriend being the model or the
09:06
you know the spice girl or whatever and
09:07
you know I mean it's it's that whole
09:10
package of being the big celebrity you
09:11
know it's like Tito Ortiz with jenna
09:13
jameson you know it's like it makes him
09:16
a celebrity you got in Sports
09:17
Illustrated this week because of you
09:19
know more because of jenna jameson than
09:21
beam great fighter and you know Tito he
09:23
who hasn't been a great fighter in years
09:24
but you got in Sports Illustrated this
09:26
week the other thing that I got out of
09:28
this show the other lesson that I
09:29
learned was we have talked many times
09:31
about the advantages that Pro Wrestling
09:33
should have over MMA and tonight was the
09:36
most perfect example because when this
09:38
show was over I sat there and thought
09:41
Carl and KJ Noons against the Diaz
09:44
brothers is it not the biggest possible
09:47
fight that you could possibly do for
09:49
this company right now that would kill
09:51
the Scott Smith fight but you can't do
09:53
it it was such a company but oh those
09:59
guys when they were walking off that's
10:01
he Brian that because of the best heels
10:03
I've ever seen tonight Oh Brian that was
10:05
the stuff that you miss growing up I
10:07
mean this debt they did this was just
10:09
they did this stuff every week in the
10:11
old days but I haven't seen it in so
10:13
long I'm watching them going like this
10:15
is what Pro Wrestling is missing his
10:17
believable heels that the fans actually
10:19
hate him and you know I mean it's been
10:21
heroes and heroes and I mean and real
10:24
and and what appears to be real emotion
10:26
yeah I mean it was real emotion but I
10:29
mean the point is is it good pro
10:31
wrestler should be able to fake that
10:33
real emotion and make it look just that
10:35
good but they're put in like it with TNA
10:38
the whole backdrop of everything that
10:40
they do makes it impossible to have real
10:43
emotion because the whole thing is being
10:44
done tongue-in-cheek from the star sure
10:46
with all that all the garbage that they
10:48
do and with Deborah w/e you know it's
10:50
largely the same thing because so much
10:51
of it is so staged and so phony that
10:54
even when you have something with real
10:56
emotion a lot of the time it doesn't
10:58
quit as far as getting your buys is when
11:01
it should and a lot of times it just
11:03
doesn't click you know it's it's just
11:05
not real enough
11:07
watching TNA because sometimes the idea
11:09
is if everybody yells we're supposed to
11:12
care and I watched that thing tonight
11:14
and and all all Nate Diaz had to do was
11:18
stand behind his brother and do a bunch
11:20
of hand signals toward the ring after
11:22
almost causing a near riot and right
11:24
there he was you know him and his
11:26
brother the two biggest heels you could
11:27
possibly imagine and that's going to be
11:29
a big fight when it finally comes around
11:31
and exactly I'm heading to Stockton to
11:40
watch and watch the riot when the
11:42
Hawaiians come to Stockton no I actually
11:44
wanted I want that fight to take place
11:45
in Hawaii
11:46
so I have an excuse to go to Hawaii
11:47
because I'd rather see Nick I think Nick
11:49
Diaz is way better as a heel than it's a
11:52
baby face so I thought I had the flu
11:53
Nick Diaz in Hawaii against KJ Noons
11:56
that with the brother and the father in
11:59
the corner that right there can we can
12:03
they be strapped together do you think
12:05
commission would allow that something of
12:07
that nature god that was awesome so yeah
12:11
everybody that missed it we've been
12:12
talking for 15 minutes never even
12:13
mentioned it KJ Noons beat Eve ever even
12:16
worse 48 seconds knocked American
12:19
destroyed him he put him on queer Street
12:21
according to Steven cuadros so I think
12:23
he's good
12:24
he's gonna be in some trouble for that
12:25
one perhaps but yeah he destroyed him
12:28
and Wow
12:29
well now now I want to ask you your take
12:32
on that because you know he beat Eve
12:34
Edwards in 48 seconds but when something
12:37
like that happens I mean to you does
12:39
that kind of does it really raise KJ
12:41
stock in your eyes or is it more like
12:43
well you know that was 48 seconds and it
12:45
would have been better to see how he did
12:46
in a 3 rounder for example well you know
12:50
what Kate you know I mean he's Edwards
12:51
even though he's lost a lot of fights I
12:53
mean he's still a quality fighter it
12:54
doesn't it helps KJ Noons yeah you know
12:57
cuz KJ Noons still doesn't have full
12:58
respect and I don't know that you know
13:01
this one you know people will just kind
13:02
of look at it like you know he caught
13:04
the guy and once he caught the guy the
13:05
one thing he was very good at was that
13:07
he was very aggressive it he was great
13:09
at finishing him once he caught him but
13:11
you know you know anyone can get caught
13:12
with a small gloves and everything like
13:14
that you know I mean he got he got
13:15
rocked
13:15
you know the second before he caught Eve
13:18
yeah so
13:20
I mean I you know where as far as like
13:22
you know where KJ Noons stands as a top
13:24
level fighter you know you know he
13:27
didn't prove anything you know as far as
13:29
like what level he's at but you know he
13:32
won the fight and he's his
13:33
ground-and-pound was very was very
13:35
strong that now and that was impressive
13:36
and then the big angle afterwards was
13:38
Nick Diaz hitting the ring and
13:40
challenging KJ to a title match and they
13:43
ended up having a big pull apart that
13:45
involved the father of KJ that's Carl
13:48
noone former kickboxer yes and no
13:52
Goldberg was involved and I thought I
13:54
thought he was gonna spear somebody and
13:55
I know I did Jeremy laughing there I saw
13:58
a whole bunch of security guards
14:01
throwing punches in from from the cage I
14:04
knew inside in a meddlesome and the Diaz
14:06
brothers running out of that cage and
14:08
flipping off the fan they did they
14:09
bailed like just the greatest heels and
14:12
flipped everybody right in that aisle
14:13
oh that was awesome that was fantastic
14:16
yeah so yes everybody will talk about
14:19
the rest of the show here in a minute
14:20
but if you get a chance I would
14:21
recommend getting the replay on this one
14:23
and I don't know when your replays but
14:25
but you've got to watch the last yeah
14:28
and hopefully it replays this weekend
14:29
because Showtime is is apparently free
14:31
this week for for real people in the US
14:34
yeah my buddy Craig got it for free on
14:35
DirecTV that's why I got to watch it
14:37
early Wow so there you go everyone then
14:40
we add the but you know I mean I dunno
14:42
let me see I guess it's too late because
14:45
no one's listening less live you know it
14:47
actually the West Coast replay is going
14:49
on right yeah that fight is about to
14:50
take place but sadly everyone's gonna
14:52
miss it yeah what can you do it a little
14:54
replay again everybody I'll get it on
14:58
the site I'll find out when the replay
15:00
is you know we'll get on the site
15:01
tomorrow or the next day okay cool and
15:02
actually we might be able to put up a
15:04
link of it ends up on any of the
15:05
youtubes or whatever so yeah and then
15:07
the Nick Diaz versus Lucian Corbray
15:11
fight was this was the fight where Diaz
15:14
came in eight pounds home for his
15:16
contracted weight
15:18
he looked gigantic in there with this
15:20
poor guy gigantic next to a Nunes and
15:22
they're in the base office after the
15:24
fight - yes he did and by the way Brian
15:26
did you hear his excuse
15:28
Diaz's excuse yeah wasn't that the one
15:30
about he wasn't sure what wait to find
15:31
out no no that's not
15:33
true no man actually the actual excuse
15:35
was was much better than that he went
15:39
swimming in the ocean it's already great
15:42
and he swallowed salt water so that
15:46
retained water and he wasn't able to
15:48
sweat his weight down so he's just
15:50
swimming and just swallowing copious
15:51
amounts of salt water and he didn't
15:53
drown or anything I don't have an answer
15:55
but that's the most ridiculous thing
15:56
I've ever heard
15:57
I like the excuse about he didn't know
15:58
what weight I believe that one before
16:00
the sea water no there's no chance
16:02
there's no chance because number one
16:03
he's he's broad in that way class before
16:05
number two everyone knew and everyone
16:07
knew was for a title shot so that it was
16:09
and and and even if he didn't know
16:10
everyone in this team would have known
16:12
there's no there's no one there's not
16:14
even one percent chance he didn't know
16:16
what weight he was supposed to fight now
16:17
how do you give this geek a title shot
16:18
after missing weight by eight pounds
16:20
yeah I know it wasn't like it was three
16:22
pounds or something like that I mean
16:23
well because you'll sell tickets but you
16:26
know I I tell you what like to me him
16:28
winning this fight I'm over core break
16:30
meant nothing to me because he was so
16:32
much bigger and that's played a big if
16:34
you watch the fight that played a big
16:35
part in the fight now incorporate was
16:37
not big enough to hurt him when he when
16:39
he when he rocked him on punches and you
16:41
know what he caught on some punches
16:42
although you know Diaz he has won all
16:44
three rounds and then finished him in
16:45
the third
16:46
now now Corbray claimed that he was 158
16:49
and once he found out the Diaz wasn't
16:52
making weight he ate he weighed in with
16:54
the stuff in his pockets and ended up
16:56
being whatever didn't matter but anyway
16:59
if he was 158 and Diaz was 168 you're
17:03
talking 10 pounds 149 find 169 before he
17:07
even probably ate after that so that's a
17:10
that was a giant weight difference in
17:11
that fight yeah well you figure he's 169
17:14
you know he's probably no less than 180
17:19
in there he was probably no less than
17:21
180 in the ring and the other guys
17:23
probably well he ate and weighed in and
17:26
was only 163 so probably wasn't a much
17:28
heavier man he might have been he might
17:30
have been up to around 165 167 and I
17:34
wouldn't be surprised if Diaz was up was
17:35
even more than that you know more than
17:37
180 he looks pretty big in this it was
17:38
like a giant yeah I mean I met Nick Diaz
17:40
and he's uh you know he's 190 pound guy
17:43
yeah we saw
17:44
in Vegas and he was I was shocked by how
17:47
big he was
17:48
yeah so he took him down in the third
17:50
around side control tried to calm her a
17:52
straight armbar and then finally pinned
17:54
him against the fence mounted him a
17:56
couple more shots for the TKO so he beat
17:59
the guy no doubt about it but he did he
18:01
was very very heavy then we had the the
18:05
Marilla who a fight against Tony Bonello
18:09
which I thought was awesome because
18:11
Bonello decided he was going to cut a
18:12
promo on him during the staredown in the
18:15
guard ass handed to him and then put
18:21
himself in the position that he got
18:23
killed it yes so totally one side
18:25
fighting and well you know me banila
18:27
came in unbeaten but you know obviously
18:29
you know ninja'd fought a lot tougher
18:32
guys you know and in the Iran Waterman
18:35
Dave Herman match Ron Waterman of course
18:37
formerly under w/e developmental
18:39
contract Sam Russell I've once actually
18:42
in in Seattle and he's pretty good and
18:45
wasn't tonight he got destroyed that's
18:52
that's I I did not expect the Karate Kid
18:54
jumping crane kick but actually hit him
18:56
in the eye
18:57
oh yeah ruin design yeah it's like he
19:00
only caught him with the toe if he'd
19:01
caught him with a with the instep not
19:03
his head off yeah Soniya that herrmann
19:06
herrmann may face some on Antonio Silva
19:08
on the July show at these don't in any
19:11
way Tyler they have to a title that's
19:13
possible it's one of the guys in fact I
19:15
would almost say if I was a betting man
19:18
he would be the favorite to be the guy
19:20
in that fight and then we add the
19:22
Rafael's jo against the Hale Mihal I
19:27
should know that is a Mexican against
19:28
Wayne Cole yeah he couldn't strike with
19:33
him all I could do is defend himself in
19:35
a winkles tough guy but you know but hey
19:38
also the hail late they to say they say
19:41
as a contender and I guess we'll see
19:42
because you know you know I think I
19:45
think that um when they do their light
19:46
heavyweight championship the hail will
19:48
be one of the guys in that fight most
19:50
likely we surprised by all the shots of
19:52
Anderson Silva on this show no not at
19:54
all
19:55
I was expecting it these being in
19:57
trouble for that
19:59
you can't I mean it's just different you
20:02
know yeah unless you know UFC starts
20:06
changing the contracts which if I was
20:08
them I actually would but you know
20:10
they'll they would you imagine like how
20:12
crazy people would go if they did that
20:15
laughter tonight okay you cannot appear
20:17
on on arrival you cannot appear on
20:19
arrivals TV show and you know they can't
20:21
show you on camera because you're our
20:22
contracted guy I mean you know but
20:26
anyway yeah I mean it's one of those
20:30
things where I figured if he's there
20:32
they're gonna really blow it up because
20:34
they're all clinging to UFC and you know
20:36
what I'm saying it's almost like it's
20:38
the teen awwe thing you know where they
20:40
try to use the other you know like you
20:42
know use the other group and in a sense
20:44
it makes you minor-league doing it but
20:46
when you feel when you think yourself
20:48
your minor-league and that's your only
20:51
you know that's your only credibility
20:52
then and that's what you do let's talk
20:55
to you very quickly about that News
20:57
interview post we've got a lot of
20:58
questions on it a lot of people I mean
21:00
the newsletter got posted but a lot of
21:02
people wanted to know more of the story
21:04
that led up to it I mean you talked a
21:06
little bit about the Hogan uso story but
21:09
you know it's sort of picked off and and
21:12
we probably aren't going to get the the
21:13
previous issue for quite a while I would
21:15
guess yeah so well so what would led up
21:18
to it I don't even remember years ago I
21:24
mean I just remember that I guess this
21:30
was this would have been with the the
21:31
Persian Gulf War thing right yeah yeah
21:34
so so so so bintz was exploiting the
21:36
Persian Gulf War and I think I wrote a
21:41
story in the National I was writing for
21:43
the national the time that Vince was
21:46
exploiting the Persian Gulf War which
21:47
was obviously he was and business people
21:49
just went crazy on me for insinuating
21:52
you know that they would do such a thing
21:53
that they were doing and also was by
21:56
saying that it was controversial because
21:57
a lot of people in the company were very
21:58
negative about I mean you can see
22:00
healing books have come out a lot of
22:01
people you know we're very negative
22:03
about that that Vince was all gung-ho on
22:05
it and you know so I mean I think that's
22:10
what led up to it and so they
22:12
you know WV tried to get me fired from
22:14
the National you know which actually
22:16
they had been trying to do from from day
22:18
one but but they saw this as their big
22:20
chance to get me fired you know because
22:23
I was critical of them for that and you
22:26
know it ended up being a big brouhaha
22:27
you know where you know they ended up
22:31
you know everyone ended up hating each
22:33
other and you know it's kind of like
22:36
what happened in you know now with the
22:40
you had a lot of letters back and forth
22:43
that you printed that issue from from
22:45
double w/e and and letters that you
22:47
written to Vince McMahon and such and
22:48
one of the the big stories that you were
22:51
or one of the big I guess angles you can
22:54
almost say an angle in that particular
22:56
newsletter was the story that that the
22:58
national was going to do about Vince
23:00
McMahon and you were not assigned the
23:03
story and you wrote the Frank Deford and
23:06
and I was kind of mad about it but at
23:08
the end it ended up being the smart
23:09
thing because it as it turned out he the
23:11
guy who did the story like you know
23:13
ripped them more than I would so you
23:16
know it was like they they were like you
23:18
know they were so adamant you know
23:21
double w/e like you know that they
23:23
didn't they didn't want me you know
23:25
Vince women Sloot Vince would talk to
23:26
them but he wouldn't talk to me so he
23:28
hired so he said someone else to do the
23:30
story and the guy just rip Vince worse
23:31
than I ever would have anyway so so
23:33
ultimately the story was written by you
23:34
know guy yeah it was a very negative
23:36
story on them and I helped on the story
23:38
anyway I mean I hope a protege anyway I
23:40
just didn't talk to Vince you know who
23:42
ended up talking to me later anyway you
23:44
know I mean it was it sicilius thing in
23:45
the world you know I mean but at the
23:48
time you know he you know he wasn't
23:49
gonna talk to me because you know I had
23:52
the audacity to say he was exploiting
23:53
the Gulf War which you know obviously
23:55
you know I mean their whole thing from
23:56
day one was to do that they just didn't
23:58
know that a war was gonna start and see
23:59
the war a war started like three days
24:02
before they shot their angle and you
24:05
know is one of those things where you
24:06
know everyone goes you know oh my god I
24:08
mean you know it's funny because you
24:09
know Dylan's in that story and Dylan and
24:11
I were talking all the time and you know
24:14
which was not anything covert or
24:16
anything because you know John was
24:18
assigned by Vince McMahon to talk to me
24:19
which everyone knew so anyway so the
24:21
point is is you know Dylan and I like
24:23
just a couple I think it was like the
24:25
day before
24:25
war was about to start and I knew what
24:27
the angle was going to be in what they
24:28
were doing for mania we knew it was
24:30
Hogan and slaughtering everything and we
24:32
were talking like the day before the
24:33
thing started we knew the work that
24:34
there was a very good chance the war
24:35
we're starting that week we go oh my god
24:37
you know this this war may start if this
24:39
war starts this angle is gonna just look
24:41
like crap and I mean he completely
24:43
agreed with me you know I mean it's like
24:45
oh yeah you know in this book he said
24:46
the same thing he said he agreed with me
24:47
on it
24:48
but he always Vince another thing where
24:50
Vince is like I'm not a you know I'm not
24:52
gonna let this war interfere with my
24:54
angle so he went and he just you know
24:57
and gung-ho on it and then I remember
25:00
and part of the thing they had they had
25:03
said because I had mentioned you know
25:05
they stated then they sent Hogan to a
25:07
bunch of bases to shoot footage for
25:09
television you know and then they said
25:10
that you know and I wrote like you know
25:12
they sent Hogan to a bunch of basis you
25:14
know to shoot footage for television to
25:16
exploit the war some more and then they
25:18
wrote we will never use that footage and
25:20
they ended up using that footage not
25:21
just every week on the TV show but it
25:24
became the open of the show itself
25:27
anyway I even remember that yeah so
25:30
anyway so that was that was some very
25:31
amusing situation anyway if you remember
25:34
all that was I don't remember from if it
25:37
had happened yet but if it is if it did
25:39
it'll be in you know some subsequent
25:40
issues alright about was when you know
25:43
they had to move the show from the
25:44
Coliseum to the bomb threats because of
25:47
the bomb threat yeah yeah anger they had
25:50
16,000 tickets sold in a hundred
25:52
thousand see place they had a bomb
25:53
threat man they did worse in k1 that
26:00
sucks in hindsight now when you when you
26:03
look at just the story which the gist of
26:05
the story was they were exploiting a war
26:06
you wrote about it Vince freaked out now
26:09
looking at this new business I remember
26:12
very different because well that seemed
26:14
a question in hindsight how absurd is
26:17
this oh it's completely absurd at the
26:18
time too but the thing is is that at
26:20
that point you got to remember that
26:22
nobody covered wrestling at all so so
26:25
they were not used to you know being
26:27
criticized for angles excited they were
26:29
used to it by me and the observer but
26:30
this was the national sports daily which
26:32
was a big national newspaper at the time
26:34
that the key was it wasn't really I mean
26:38
you know it was it
26:39
200,000 circulation which is fairly big
26:41
but in the New York market were Vince
26:44
worked and lived all of the bigwigs
26:45
everyone in the industry they already
26:48
national and I was like to Dane in the
26:51
Las Vegas paper Neil it was very exactly
26:53
it's Dana in Las Vegas paper exactly
26:55
just because one time I'll tell you is a
26:57
funny story about the nationalist I did
26:59
a thing I think there was a Tokyo Dome
27:02
show during that period and I mentioned
27:04
you know the Tokyo Dome drew you know
27:05
whatever you know it was and I think I
27:07
was just like the 10 biggest wrestling
27:09
crowds of all time and there was you
27:10
know I mean obviously WrestleMania 3 had
27:12
already happened and the there was
27:16
another one the one with um Hogan and
27:19
Orrin Gorp in Toronto that happened not
27:22
the Hogan
27:23
I don't think Holden warrior it had to
27:24
get but whatever but the point is is
27:26
that there were a lot of shows there
27:28
were there were some WB shows there and
27:30
there were some Tokyo Dome shows there
27:31
and WWE freaked and they you know they
27:34
even called me and they tried to explain
27:35
how I shouldn't be writing about the
27:38
Tokyo Dome attendance because you know
27:42
in in you know we have to sell our
27:45
tickets and at the Tokyo Dome in those
27:46
days you know a lot of tickets were
27:48
corporate sponsors which in those you
27:50
know but that's how the NFL in the NHL
27:51
and NBA all sold their tickets it's just
27:54
you know you you corporations would buy
27:55
tickets and give them to their employees
27:57
you know that was part of being a major
27:58
league thing and double w in those days
28:00
and then even today cannot do that
28:02
because you know what you know if you
28:05
work for mercedes-benz they're not going
28:06
to go buy a whole bunch of w/e tickets
28:08
to give to their employees you know like
28:10
they would if it's like Bruce
28:11
Springsteen coming down or something big
28:12
but in wrestling or in Japan you know
28:15
wrestling was in those days big enough
28:17
to where you know big companies would do
28:18
that and that's that it would solve the
28:19
Tokyo don't work part you know part of
28:21
the thing part of the reason that they
28:22
would be able to do that so but anyway
28:24
this is a other that their big thing on
28:26
why I shouldn't do that but the the gist
28:28
of it was as I found out and it was a
28:30
wasn't hard to find out was Vince was so
28:34
Vince thought and and and and anything
28:38
basically it's true is that he had
28:40
everyone in the New York not media but
28:42
the New York business world thinking
28:44
that nobody else could promote pro
28:46
wrestling with Vince McMahon and nobody
28:48
else could sell pro wrestling like Vince
28:49
McMahon and they didn't know but there
28:51
was a big history of pro
28:52
swinging in all these parts of the
28:53
country and a lot of these promoters
28:54
were successful they only knew Vince
28:56
McMahon post 1984 because everything
28:58
else was underground even when it was
29:00
successful so the point is is that they
29:03
you know Vince was all mad because it's
29:05
like oh my god it's gonna show that like
29:07
other people in other parts of the world
29:09
sell 50,000 tickets to wrestling matches
29:11
it would add Vince isn't like you know
29:13
the only one who ever did it or the only
29:15
one who could do it and he thought that
29:16
it was like you know I mean he's merging
29:19
it made it look like he wasn't the
29:21
creator of this entire industry because
29:23
he wasn't the creator and he wasn't you
29:25
know at certain points you know you know
29:27
in his 20 year pin the 20-plus year
29:29
period that we're talking about at
29:31
certain points Vince was the number one
29:33
promoter in the business no question but
29:35
in the 90s you know I mean you know New
29:36
Japan was the number one promotion in
29:38
the world for a long time in the
29:39
nineties in the notice periods where
29:40
triple-a was number one
29:42
you know later of course we had that
29:44
brief period where WCW was number one
29:45
but you know I mean it wasn't always and
29:48
I think that he you know before the WCW
29:51
period I think that you know in his mind
29:53
you know I think that where he had to
29:54
admit it because you know the ratings
29:56
everyone was lived and died with ratings
29:57
but before that I mean it was a real big
30:00
deal that Vince didn't like the idea of
30:01
anyone in New York having any idea that
30:05
anyone else was pouring from
30:06
professional wrestling successfully in
30:07
other parts of the world by doing a
30:09
different product than him now you also
30:11
in that issue had a letter I believe it
30:15
was a letter that you had written to
30:17
Brody
30:18
which of course was after I wonder what
30:25
was it came off something about I mean
30:28
it's about Brody getting mad at me over
30:30
not not printing you know some you know
30:33
the chick failed the drug test or
30:35
something okay yeah I got that but I I
30:37
must have perhaps I don't remember
30:41
everything again this is 17 and a half
30:42
years ago oh you know what it was
30:43
probably a Frank Deford okay Frank
30:47
Deford was my editor that actually makes
30:49
sense you probably wrote dear Frank
30:50
right after talking about Brody sorry I
30:54
think sport and I were going back and
30:56
forth that whole time okay I just you
30:58
know you never know well I guess he must
30:59
have liked me because at the end you
31:01
know 15 years 15 years later he wrote I
31:03
was whatever
31:05
he did he he he wrote what was it the
31:09
the the best sports writer in the
31:11
country in the country yes so Frank
31:14
Deford so whatever I guess I was good I
31:17
guess I was a good a good writer
31:18
reporter in those days it was in those
31:21
days yes you've sort of fallen off the
31:23
wayside here of late seriously now we
31:28
also had the question about you would
31:30
you'd mentioned something about Erin
31:32
Andrews and so of course everybody
31:33
wanted to know if she was the girl that
31:35
you put the banana in her hair yes by
31:38
the way it is really gonna have to tell
31:41
that story again you know that's that's
31:46
for another time yeah all right we'll
31:48
skip that one for right now everybody
31:50
remember that story from however many
31:52
years ago that was ten years ago on on
31:54
uh NYADA that Howe Cogan went on Arsenio
32:01
Hall lied about steroids
32:04
came back drunk from going out with her
32:07
friends and then my good god well then I
32:11
I put a banana in her hair later so now
32:13
you know whatever happened everybody yes
32:15
so I so I I did get my revenge when I
32:19
broke up with this person here wants to
32:22
know they watched a bunch of lead
32:23
exceeds lately and they wanted to know
32:25
your opinion of Frank Shamrock is a
32:27
fighter now this is what he's done in
32:29
elite exceed me anything Cesar Gracie
32:31
and Phil Baroni aren't Anderson Silva
32:33
obviously he can draw crowds but do you
32:36
feel he has anything left as a top
32:37
fighter um that's hard to say I mean
32:42
obviously it's a showman he's probably
32:43
one of the best and as far as building
32:45
up a fight he is he is I think he is the
32:47
best as far as being a top-ten fighter
32:49
you know no you know no way but you know
32:52
on any given day who knows you know I
32:54
mean he it's hard to say because I don't
32:56
know where Conley stands earring almost
32:59
become Li Baroni yeah you know I mean it
33:01
was a great fight though yeah but you
33:04
know Cesar Gracie obviously you know
33:05
that wasn't whatever the hens Oh fight
33:08
you know even if he had beaten him so he
33:10
did look impressive and the kung Li
33:13
fight you know was an awesome fight but
33:15
he lost he got his arm broken yeah so um
33:17
I mean as far as I mean I never
33:19
you know I don't think he could beat
33:20
Anderson Silva I don't but I don't know
33:22
anyone who could necessarily so any part
33:24
of the problem is all of the inability
33:27
no there's no question the caliber the
33:29
fighters in UFC is above you know the
33:31
caliber of the fighters and other
33:32
organizations you know in all the other
33:34
organizations for the most part I mean
33:35
yeah I mean I'm a pushin may have better
33:37
heavyweights but you know generally
33:39
speaking you know when you're talking
33:40
about every other weight class the UFC
33:44
guys I think are better you know I don't
33:45
know maybe all of us will see how the
33:48
lightweight tournament ends up Betty
33:50
Alvarez goes in wins the lightweight
33:51
tournament I'm not so sure that there's
33:53
a lot of guys in UFC you could beat
33:54
Eddie Alvarez I think Ann Alvarez that's
33:57
why yeah this question here if you've
34:00
ever read a fighter's heart the fighter
34:01
or no excuses by Kyle Maynard I haven't
34:06
read commoners book a glance through it
34:07
at the bookstore and in the other books
34:09
I'm not read okay this one here very
34:12
quickly any heat between Vince McMahon
34:14
and JJ Dillon backstage at the flare
34:15
deal from what I gather and JJ John was
34:19
very nervous a little bit but you know
34:22
they were very professional and Vince
34:24
like thanked him for coming in JJ's the
34:26
thing didn't for bringing them and that
34:28
was it nothing nothing else and one more
34:32
here before we wrap it up you have C
34:33
plans with the pride video live or any
34:36
chance of them releasing any pride DVDs
34:38
or perhaps in
34:40
perhaps expanding unleash to show pride
34:42
fights that's a real good question I
34:47
don't know what I think that there is a
34:49
the problem is there's a there's a lot
34:51
of rights problems because pride has I
34:54
think that there's like the company that
34:56
does the pride DVD still owns the u.s.
34:59
DVD rights yes he doesn't own them and
35:02
they can't show that I don't think they
35:04
can show the pride fight son Unleashed
35:06
because Fox Sports Net owns the rights
35:09
to those fights that's why he because I
35:11
was I remember when Anderson that when
35:13
Anderson or Wanderlei Silva was about to
35:15
fight Liddell I thought they you know
35:16
they all those awesome you know
35:18
Wanderlei Silva knockouts and fights and
35:19
I think they're a lot of show like clips
35:21
but they couldn't show any those fights
35:22
on unleash because Fox Sports Net had
35:25
the us rights to it so you know they
35:27
bought the library but you know there's
35:28
limitations because the part of it was I
35:30
had already been sold to us
35:32
you know it's funny is Dana whenever
35:34
he's asked about pride I mean obviously
35:35
doesn't want to you know talk too much
35:37
about what a monumental failure it was
35:39
but he always mentions I got the library
35:41
I wanted that library and then you sit
35:43
here you go okay you got it
35:46
what are you doing with it hey what can
35:48
you do with it yeah well I can sit
35:50
around and watch this tape not much of a
35:52
deal so far but hopefully at some point
35:55
in the future well I got I know you got
35:57
to wrap it up today there's there's more
35:59
fighting on TV tonight believe it or not
36:03
that's right dream show starting in a
36:05
couple hours after we record this and a
36:07
lot of other stuff going on but you'll
36:09
be back on Monday night we'll do a post
36:12
raw show later on in the Evo you sound
36:15
excited oh no about raw right is there
36:23
anything that can be revealed here oh no
36:25
I mean you know I mean I think everyone
36:26
knows where we were jumping dollar thing
36:28
again it's gonna be it's gonna be
36:30
absolutely terrible thought the first
36:32
time I just like the idea that this time
36:33
they're gonna try and make it humorous I
36:35
found the whole thing quite humorous
36:36
last time well I mean that's the problem
36:38
is it's good they're only gonna dig a
36:40
deeper hole oh yeah I mean it's gonna be
36:42
you know and then they're gonna you know
36:44
you know I'm presuming that the last
36:46
thing they shoot some angle so to where
36:48
you know they get out of it and it's
36:49
gonna be so bad like Linda Susan for all
36:53
of his money he has none to give away
36:55
anymore I don't know yeah I don't know
36:58
every now and then rod just needs to be
37:00
such an epic disaster that it's just
37:02
something to talk about for two weeks
37:04
what a disaster it was this last Monday
37:06
show was I mean really it was like it
37:11
was really sad to me watching the show
37:12
though because it was all you know it
37:14
was really sad tonight when I started
37:15
thinking about it because it's like how
37:17
are these people who don't even who
37:19
aren't even trying to do pro wrestling
37:21
tweeted better than these people who you
37:23
know with their life yes you know it's
37:25
and I mean and and and it it's just
37:28
years years and years of mistakes while
37:31
they were successful that have led to
37:34
this and I mean that's the whole thing
37:35
it's not like that they're all of a
37:37
sudden like losing touch it's that there
37:39
were things that they needed to do all
37:40
along you know develop talent that they
37:42
just failed to do
37:44
and you know they're paying the price
37:46
and it's some and I don't I don't know
37:49
that it's gonna change I mean you know
37:51
there's things they're gonna be in
37:52
business forever but whether they're
37:54
gonna you know really hook people and
37:56
all that you know where I don't know I
37:58
don't I don't see like the big I don't
38:01
see like the big turnaround because I
38:02
don't I don't see the new John Cena
38:04
anywhere no it's a it's not a pretty
38:08
sight and that'll leave us with a lot to
38:11
talk about for Monday so everybody can
38:13
check that out and tomorrow Sunday night
38:15
I'll be back for observer live I'm gonna
38:17
try and get the Dave on the show for
38:19
about twenty minutes tomorrow as well if
38:20
he's able to make that but otherwise
38:22
make sure you check out the website
38:23
wrestling observer comm figure four
38:25
online.com you're all on it right now so
38:27
you know and we shall talk to you in a
38:29
couple of days