Disneyland Measles Outbreak

Disneyland Measles Outbreak

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internalheights
Message 1 of 15 , Jan 22
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Hello natchat,

I'm just wondering if anyone has clear information on how many of the current reported measles cases, were vaccinated??  I've searched high and low and can't get any information currently.  Last I saw 3 of the cases were vaccinated.

Is the anti vaccination movement setting precedence for issues with disease control or are there just too many articles being written in support of vaccinations per this whole Disney Measles outbreak event?

This whole vaccination vs. anti vaccination movement is tough enough to wade through as a doctor, let alone as a parent.

Any thoughts or discussion?

Andrea Minesaki, ND
San Diego, CA


drdeanna
Message 2 of 15 , Jan 22
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Hi Andrea,
In 2014 there was a measles outbreak and many of those infected were vaccinated.  I don't know about this outbreak.
Deanna Berman, ND, CM


Eric Blake
Message 3 of 15 , Jan 22
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They arent being reported. At least not where I can see and I have been looking.
It is turning into a media witch hunt, blaming non-vaccinated, and framing the conversation as 'pro' and 'anti' vaccine.
I like vactruth on FB and they send articles on vaccination issues. Here is a recent link that I enjoyed
http://armadillokerfuffle.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/7-things-that-pro-vaccine-campaigners.html


Mona Morstein
Message 4 of 15 , Jan 22
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Anyway, so people got measles.  I'm not sure what the big deal is.   I had mumps. I had chickenpox.  Diseases of childhood used to kick in the immune system of little humans is a good thing.  With proper naturopathic care, people can overcome the disease and not suffer some of the more serious and life-threatening consequences.

NPR reports 34 of 59 were vaccinated, 28 were not, and the rest are unknown.  And, yet, of course health officials are telling those who are not vaccinated to get vaccinated, even though those who were vaccinated got the disease more than those who were not.  Of course, vaccinations can wear off over time, I understand.

In that same article a doc says measles is serious (which it can be) and 500 people a year used to die from it. What he forgot to mention is that that's out of the 500,000 people a year who used to get it, way back when.

One wonders how many of those sad, unfortunate deaths used naturopathic medicine when they were sick.  Look back to the pneumonia post-WWI and how homeopathic care vs. aspirin and standard care had such a remarkable increase in survival of patients.  We have a lot to offer acutely ill patients.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2015/01/22/379072061/disneyland-measles-outbreak-hits-59-cases-and-counting

Mona Morstein, ND
Tempe, AZ
www.diamend.info
Official Sponsor NatChat--Doctors Data Lab


Susan Roberts
Message 5 of 15 , Jan 22
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agreed I have seen one case of mumps in my career, it was no big deal with basic naturopathic medicine,

Susan Roberts
Naturopathic Physician



bradwestnd
Message 6 of 15 , Jan 22
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Our own David Hogg ND was interviewed for the local bay area NBC station and had a tiny bit of air time ago regarding an alternate view. Of course they spun the story to say that eight of the 26 people we're not vaccinated. Simple math with then say a huge majority were. That was not emphasized.

Dr. Sherry tenpenny was not allowed to present her scientific and well researched anti-vaccine point of view recently in Australia. They revoked her travel visa but now she has had much more airtime on shows like coast-to-coast a.m. and mercola as well as the Internet.

These recent stories as well as the forced chemotherapy 17-year-old does make one wonder.

Brad West NDs
Los gatos ca


Gabrielle Duebendorfer
Message 7 of 15 , Jan 23
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Mona, while I totally agree with your response, your numbers do not reflect what's in the report:
it's 5 vaccinated out of 34 cases and 28 not vaccinated, rather than 34 vaccinated - at least that's how I read it.  which makes the vaccination argument not quite as clear - but who knows what the vaccination status is of the other 20 some cases. Gabrielle




PLEASE LEAVE PHARMACY, SCHEDULING AND OTHER OFFICE REQUESTS ON THE OFFICE MACHINE - E-MAIL REQUESTS WILL NOT BE HONORED

Aspen WellSpring
Dr. Gabrielle Duebendorfer, ND




Message 8 of 15 , Jan 25
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NPR reports 34 of 59 were vaccinated, 28 were not, and the rest are unknown.  And, yet, of course health officials are telling those who are not vaccinated to get vaccinated, even though those who were vaccinated got the disease more than those who were not.  Of course, vaccinations can wear off over time, I understand.

In that same article a doc says measles is serious (which it can be) and 500 people a year used to die from it. What he forgot to mention is that that's out of the 500,000 people a year who used to get it, way back when.

One wonders how many of those sad, unfortunate deaths used naturopathic medicine when they were sick.  Look back to the pneumonia post-WWI and how homeopathic care vs. aspirin and standard care had such a remarkable increase in survival of patients.  We have a lot to offer acutely ill patients.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2015/01/22/379072061/disneyland-measles-outbreak-hits-59-cases-and-counting


Anne Van Couvering
Message 9 of 15 , Jan 26
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I wonder why there is no hoopla about the fact that the majority were vaccinated and IT DIDN"T WORK.

How about that?

Anne Van Couvering, ND, LMT, CNS
Sag Harbor, NY (but enjoying sunny Northern California far from the snow-pocalypse)



Eric Blake
Message 10 of 15 , Jan 26
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From
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/12/vaccines-a-peek-beneath-the-hood-by-roman-bystrianyk-and-suzanne-humphries-md/

"A 2009 study published in Proceedings of the Royal Society investigated what could happen with waning measles vaccine immunity even with high vaccine coverage among children. They predicted that, after a long disease-free period in the population, the introduction of infection will lead to far larger epidemics than predicted by standard models.

We can foresee that vaccination will have two conflicting effects . . . it will reduce the number of newborn susceptibles and hence should have some of the usual associated public-health benefits reducing the number of cases in young children. However, this reduction in cases will lead to a reduction in boosting and therefore a greater susceptibility to infection in older age classes . . . When immunity wanes, vaccination has a far more limited impact on the average number of cases. While this observation has clear public-health implications, the dynamic consequences of the interaction between vaccination, waning immunity and boosting are far more striking. For high levels of vaccination (greater than 80%) and moderate levels of waning immunity (greater than 30 years), large-scale epidemic cycles can be induced. [21]

A 1984 study [22] reported that by 2050, the proportion of measles susceptibles may be greater than in the pre-vaccine era. So have we created a ticking time bomb with waning immunity? Will there actually be bigger measles epidemics in the future? If there are, the response will probably be to blame the unvaccinated, which has in fact been done for over 100 years, and then to enforce more vaccinations upon different age groups.

Because of the zealous pro-vaccine bias that permeates society, the true forces that drove the major decline in deaths from infectious diseases are not acknowledged. At most, there is a slight admission that “sanitation” has some effect, but better medical care and antibiotics are still given the credit.

Groups of individuals who have anointed themselves as “skeptics” seek to derail anything that questions vaccination. The definition of skeptic used to be “one who instinctively or habitually doubts, questions, or disagrees with assertions or generally accepted conclusions,” but this definition in its modern usage has been hijacked and transformed to someone that essentially blindly supports any orthodox position as gospel. These people will continue on their crusade of supporting vaccines at all costs and to assail anything that might question their myopic view. If those people had a desire to learn the truth, perhaps they would peek beneath the hood of infectious diseases and vaccines, and learn a little more. Imagine what could be in the trunk!"


Karl Goldkamp
Message 11 of 15 , Jan 26
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Anne
I don't know what the truth of the situation really is but today on NPR the Janet Reims show the spokes people from NIH reported that the far majority were not vacinated. And of course to that they added that was due people believing the mis-information about vacinations.
Karl Goldkamp ND.,LAC
CC, MA


internalheights
Message 12 of 15 , Jan 28
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Thank you for all of your interesting responses.  I appreciate Mona's passion and confidence for our medicine.  It's inspiring.  I am not sure newer graduates are filled with this necessary level of confidence in nature cure.
 I do believe that given the right and proper healing circumstances, that the body can fight and recover from a threatening disease.

The number of people that die from a disease like measles may be low, but what would you do if it were your child?  I certainly hope an unvaccinated child doesn't die (or any child for that matter) from a disease that can be vaccinated against.... imagine the onslaught of commentary the natural communities would face.  Certainly many people die of the flu and they aren't vaccinated, but it doesn't seem to cause the same ruckus as other disease.  These are the kinds of questions that parents ask in my office.  They ask my opinion on vaccinations all the time, both professionally and personally ("Does your own child have vaccinations?").

 It can get very tiresome trying to wade through the medical propaganda around the topic of vaccines.  Counseling patients on this is also difficult.  I believe it's my job to educate patients, doctor as teacher, so I provide as much information as I can about the topic at hand (vaccinations in this case) and send the patients with additional resources for reading and studying so that that can be fully educated in their decision making process.  I believe most patients appreciate this, but many are still frustrated because they want a clear answer.  Are vaccines safe or not?  Should I get this vaccine for my child or not?

But, it can get so convoluted.... it is so convoluted!  What's the bigger picture?  What are we looking at in terms of "social responsibility" as spoken of in this article about an immune compromised child living around many unvaccinated children... Dad's Plea to School: Ban Unvaccinated Kids to Save My Son's Life
 image
Dad's Plea to School: Ban Unvaccinated Kids to Save ...
Photo by Yuji Kotani/ California dad Carl Krawitt has asked his 6-year-old sons school to take an unusual step in the fight against measles: Require all students to...
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So, does anyone want to share their recommendations on vaccines or valuable resources that help make this never ending saga a little less unbearable?

Which vaccines do you recommend or support?
Are there any "clean" forms of the recommended vaccines?
Currently, are there any single forms of vaccines ie. just measles from the MMR combo?

Andrea Minesaki, ND
San Diego, CA


Virginia Oram, ND
Message 13 of 15 , Jan 28
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Watch the webinars by Hilary Andrews ND on vaccines; she has several, they are all excellent:  http://vaccineconsult.com/.

Virginia A. Oram ND
Blair Centre for Natural Medicine



Vibrant health is a Natural Path Away!



Kristin Cox
Message 14 of 15 , Feb 9
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My daughters conventional pediatrician recommend Dr. Sears Vaccine book.  I found it pretty balanced and informative.  I've since heard Dr. Sears being bashed as irresponsible for writing a balanced book and not just saying "the science is settled.  All vaccines are safe and effective.  The only option is to fully vaccinate on the recommended schedule."

This anti-vax hysteria is getting totally exhausting, especially since the last thing I am is an uneducated, anti-science, irresponsible parent.  I feel 100% confident about not vaccinating my daughter as an infant.  However now she is 11 and she did not have the opportunity to be exposed to many of these childhood infections.  She may have had the chickenpox.  If she did, she had one pock and never had another.  She got Pertussis last year.  Except during the Pertussis, she has never had a round of antibiotics.

I am going to get some varicella titers run on her and then consider getting the MMR, varicella and dt.  Even though the MMR is associated with an increased risk of RA and my daughter probably has a better chance of getting RA than from getting the measles.

My greatest concern for vaccinations besides injecting developing infants with heavy metals, monkey parts and other toxic chemicals is the long-term unintended consequences of the lack of these childhood exanthems that we all co-evolved with.  You can't just eliminate all mostly well-tolerated childhood infections with out some kind of long-term health consequences.  We live in a very complex interdependent ecological web.  When you change one thing in the system there are consequences, always unforeseen.

We used to live in a world where people got sick from exposure to feces and lives were saved with antibiotics.  Now we live in a world where people are dying from antibiotics and their lives are being saved by feces.  We used to live in a world where people died from acute infectious disease.  Now we live in a world where people are suffering and dying from chronic lifestyle diseases.  We used to live in a world where people got sick from parasitic infections, now we live in a world where children are dying from anaphylactic reactions to peanuts.  People suffer their whole lives from debilitating asthma and allergies.  People are dependent on harsh drugs to control autoimmune conditions and inflammation.

But because (some) studies show that there isn't an immediate adverse reaction from vaccines then they are all perfectly safe and we should all be fully vaccinated until all these childhood infections are wiped off the face of the planet and then all our children will be safe and sound. Never mind nutrition.  Never mind that gun violence that kills 8 children everyday.  WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE???

Thanks.  I needed to get that off my chest.

Kristin Cox
Juneau, AK


Hanalei Roberts
Message 15 of 15 , Feb 10
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Kristen this line is awesome. "Now we live in a world where people are dying from antibiotics and their lives are being saved by feces." Haha. Yes where is the outrage over the universally compromised immune systems we have from our environment! The outrage over the asthma, allergies and inflamed brains we see all the time.

Overall this whole debate about "wiping out diseases" is an example of medical hubris. How do we know what we are doing and what all the consequences are? We don't. Yes I know infants can die from pertussis, but what about how in chinese medicine pertussis is viewed as the 100 day cough and is thought to bring spiritual development to the child? How do we know what is bad and good in nature? This extreme hubris brings unforeseen consequences. Nature is intelligent and we should not fight it. We should work with it and work on being strong to weather it.

I got into it with my friend from pre-med days who is a pharmacist on FB. It ended with me breaking up with her as a friend. We both have kids the same age and she posts "Too bad …. can't get her MMR yet, but at least she could get the flu vaccine. They missed the mark this year though and …. is sick with the flu! blah blah" I would never say this to her, but the obvious elephant in the room is your kid is sick all the time do you not wonder why?

Hana Roberts ND
Kapaau HI