ZM logs

Oct 27th

<Shroom> http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=50&p=245577#p245577 I'm not really agreeing with this one; in fact, I'm generally not agreeing with how strict the backseat moderation rule is put into place here. On one hand my wording wasn't optimal, I see, but on the other hand, I'm not the kind of person who enjoys "snitching" on people by just approaching staff and saying "here's an offense". I only do that when I think I really need to do it, e.g. when I think that speaking with the person in question would really be not worth it. Besides, I don't make a difference between the terms "speaking as a user and speaking as a moderator" in general

<not zeldamaster12> use the report button
<not zeldamaster12> it's not your job to tell people that they're making bad posts
<not zeldamaster12> leave that to us
<Shroom> I'm not sure if this is always the proper way to go. For me, the rule is flawed; it should only be referred to rude or blunt remarks and alike IMO
<Shroom> Fine, I'm not posting anymore in any kinds of these threads that Aero makes. What I don't like is being called out for something that didn't do anything bad, even if it was more on the lecturing than the constructive side.
<not zeldamaster12> Then don't, because lecturing is not your job. Leave it to the staff.
<Shroom> ... well, at the very least I'd like to make clear that I had zero intention of "trying to put Aero down deliberately" whatsoever
<Shroom> On a side note, did you read Enjl's material?

Nov 27th

<Shroom> http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=5340&p=247913#p247898 My post wasn't meant to lecture, and even if it was, did it hurt anyone? It was supposed to vent out my indignation, which I guess I did properly, and it also was supposed to appeal to staff to do more against these incidences and to not let me down. I made logs for reporting, and gave them privately to Joey, and he didn't express any complaint against my post. The forums themselves are running fairly well atm, but chat is a problem zone. This also was no problem of me having "high standards of behaviour", this was inarguably worth to complain about.
<Shroom> About blocking, I already have blocked 6 people, and if I have to block everyone who happens to disrupt the chat, my screen will be cluttered with "x blocked messages" bars. Blocking someone means pretending that they don't exist for you, and I'm not happy with speaking such a verdict over someone, so really it's the ultimate resort.
<Shroom> Also let me express the issue of the "backseat moderation" rule again. User A does something out of line or really annoying. User B tells them to stop. Then a mod comes and tells user B "stop backseat moderating". Two useless posts / actions and noone has any use of it. Besides, it reflects staff's indignation towards User B, and not User A who initially did something dumb. The guy with more knowledge of rules and maturity is getting the shit. Isn't that paradox?
<Shroom> Also what can you do when excessive spam hinders communication or you're directly harassed / attacked, especially when no staff is online? Asking the perpetrator to stop? Backseat moderation, no matter if it's civil or blunt. Telling them the issue in private and trying to teach them? Backseat moderation (and it sometimes can't effect anything anyway). Announcing the incidence on the forums? Backseat moderation. Reporting and requesting or just recommending staff to take action? Backseat moderation. We can't always guarantee that staff is online, so we should give people space to stand up for themselves when they can't be assisted by staff.(edited)
<Shroom> There's enough cases where you can't say "the solution is to ignore or leave". Recall how I said I was forced to log out yesterday. The rule also has no RL pendant. In RL you also settle out differences and incidents in private instead of snitching all kinds of insults or rude treatment to someone with authority. What do you do if someone cocks your ears in your presence? You tell them to stop, even if his words or actions don't refer to you. What do you do if someone calls someone else evil names? You can be strong by showing civil courage then. The rule is flawed and I want it to be fixed.
<Shroom> Also the logs: http://pastebin.com/kY8u6eUm and http://pastebin.com/zrEqTZPU

<not zeldamaster12> You're not getting the point. You're not a staff member, it's not in your power to tell people what they should and shouldn't be doing. Also, the staff can't be online 24/7 because most all of us have rather busy lives to attend to. If someone is annoying you, then again, report it. We can't be online all the time because we have other things to do, so I'd appreciate it if you'd stop acting like we're doing a bad job just because we weren't there to deal with a little spam.
<not zeldamaster12> Also, my phone notifies me when someone pings or DMs me on Discord, so next time, if someone is spamming, just ping me and if I'm not busy, I'll come online and deal with it.
<not zeldamaster12> Also, looking at the first log, if you look at the very bottom, Spinda told them to stop.

<Shroom> The part of "staff can't always be online" is NOT supposed to aim anywhere at "staff would do a bad job". It's natural. But it's supposed to substantiate my point about the rule being flawed. It's the rule that prevents you from at least trying to help yourself when you're alone. If they refuse to listen and keep spamming against a regular user's order, we have a different case. Spinda was alarmed very lately (and PrivatePoyo reacted with the notorious "no fun allowed" image; I forgot to log that since I ran out of time yesterday evening). I rather want to figure out a solution that makes it fine for me to be a regular user

Nov 30th

<Shroom> concerning the Mafia inactivity: I mean, what's the only thing you can do if veteran players take a break from the game or the site entirely? You have to get new players, and there may be some potentials among the newly active members, you just have to make them attentive
<Shroom> and regarding that, Mafia being a subforum and not a proper forum is counterproductive
<Shroom> the difference may not be THAT big but maybe it's just the tiny thing we need
<Shroom> besides, are there any reasons to why Mafia should NOT be a forum of its own?
<Shroom> also, general lack of interest is one thing, but I still don't like if staff is not concerned of this at all, and that's the feeling I have
<Shroom> if I'm wrong, I'm happy to be explained

<not zeldamaster12> Why is the placement an issue? If you say that it's hard for people to find, the 10000+ posts and 30+ games would beg to differ. The subforum placement isn't an issue.
<not zeldamaster12> Even then, it technically is on the front page. Look at the Sandbox forum. Right under that shows Mafia.
<Shroom> I know, but I feel that new people will disregard it a lot more likely than if it was fully visible
<not zeldamaster12> I dunno, we've had plenty of new users to Mafia.
<not zeldamaster12> We have stickies and everything that say in detail on what Mafia is and how to play it.
<not zeldamaster12> Again, people simply are not interested. We cannot force people to be interested. Just give it a couple months and I guarantee that more games will happen. We're just burnt out at the moment. It happens.
<not zeldamaster12> "also, general lack of interest is one thing, but I still don't like if staff is not concerned of this at all, and that's the feeling I have"
<not zeldamaster12> We have other things to worry about, Mafia isn't our number one priority.
<not zeldamaster12> Even then, you shouldn't blame us because we're not in charge of Mafia, the Game Masters are.

<Shroom> well, are staff / GMs at least thinking about possibilities to raise interest, or just to see how many people are interested? Because there still may be some people who might actually play but without a host sign-up no game can happen
<Shroom> after another round of the "are you interested poll", we have a better look on the situation
<not zeldamaster12> We had a game literally a few weeks ago. We stuggled to get the amount of players we needed, so Danny had to make the game  smaller. Then the game starts and it was pretty inactive. That should be proof enough that people aren't interested at the moment.
<not zeldamaster12> SMBX isn't the only place to play Mafia either. You're the only one begging for more Mafia activity, so feel free to find another site such as ToS to play at until people regain interest. At the moment, it's simply not there and we can't control that.

<Shroom> actually I don’t feel confident about looking for another place; playing Mafia here means playing in an environment I’m already familiar with
<Shroom> is there any place you can genuinely recommend, without much trouble around immaturity or poor attitudes and without tremendous speed pressure? (bc regarding ToS, as a non-native I literally can’t type anything within the few seconds a phase last; I have no idea how people manage that in general)
<Shroom> if Mafia was an own forum, it would be visually just as important / coequal as the LDing scene, Video Games, Artwork etc., and “visually” often enough also implicates “ideally” to a certain degree(edited)
<Shroom> besides, I never understood the logic of being a subforum in Sandbox anyway. Wouldn’t it be generally make more sense to put it on the board index, even when not regarding the concern about activity?
<Shroom> what also happened at previous games is that we asked around for the last spots to be filled, but as long as no game / sign-ups is up, there’s not much point in asking someone “are you interested to play (again)”
<Shroom> I get that there’s some phases where interest is burnt out temporarily but still I would think of a few ideas at first before leaving it at that