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  1. [11/18/2013 8:14:20 PM] *** Matthew (stick) added Erik Broes ***
  2. [11/18/2013 8:14:27 PM] Matthew (stick): there u go, here is grum as requested
  3. [11/18/2013 8:15:00 PM] Kain zo: Regarding that  "petition" threatening class action lawsuit? You have no chance.
  4. [11/18/2013 8:15:27 PM] dillyg10: Well I have nothing to say to Grum, but isn't bad to have good connections
  5. [11/18/2013 8:15:33 PM] Kain zo: Insulting to even imply it
  6. [11/18/2013 8:20:28 PM] Jason Bratt: Is developers not getting payed the problem with bukkit? If it really is, I'm sure we could figure out some kind of pooling between the owners of the many MC owners out there
  7. [11/18/2013 8:22:11 PM] dillyg10: Well, the problem still lies in Mojang for releasing an update without giving Bukkit ample time to update their code
  8. [11/18/2013 8:22:18 PM | Edited 8:22:39 PM] dillyg10: or providing class mappings (for de-obbed code)
  9. [11/18/2013 8:23:07 PM | Edited 8:23:27 PM] dillyg10: or providing Bukkit with help on their project (I'm sure if dinner bone lended a hand things could go a bit faster)
  10. [11/18/2013 8:23:28 PM] Kain zo: The problem is bukkit doesnt want more coders
  11. [11/18/2013 8:23:34 PM] Kain zo: it wants to keep the power it has limited to very few
  12. [11/18/2013 8:23:37 PM] Kain zo: for whatever reasoning
  13. [11/18/2013 8:24:21 PM] dillyg10: Blame EvilSeph
  14. [11/18/2013 8:24:24 PM] dillyg10: 100% for that
  15. [11/18/2013 8:25:07 PM] dillyg10: Actually, scratch that, blame EvilSeph 100% for  all of the issues
  16. [11/18/2013 8:25:20 PM] dillyg10: (bukkit side at least)
  17. [11/18/2013 8:25:32 PM] Kain zo: thank god hes off mojang team
  18. [11/18/2013 8:25:34 PM] Kain zo: fireeeed
  19. [11/18/2013 8:26:12 PM] Kain zo: I feel sorry for the guy
  20. [11/18/2013 8:26:12 PM] dillyg10: I'm hoping, no praying (and I'm atheist) that the bukkit team will have enough common sense to quit Seph
  21. [11/18/2013 8:26:17 PM] Kain zo: but he does it to himself
  22. [11/18/2013 8:26:57 PM] dillyg10: Because, honesty
  23. [11/18/2013 8:27:02 PM] dillyg10: If you name an issue
  24. [11/18/2013 8:27:20 PM] Kain zo: They cant
  25. [11/18/2013 8:27:24 PM] dillyg10: It will lead to him.
  26. [11/18/2013 8:27:27 PM] Kain zo: hes basically the 'owner'
  27. [11/18/2013 8:27:30 PM] dillyg10: He and Jeb are probably the two worst development managers.
  28. [11/18/2013 8:27:49 PM] dillyg10: For a game this size.
  29. [11/18/2013 8:28:24 PM] dillyg10: Jeb has no vision, and the vision he has fails, hard. Dinnerbone does the majority of coding.
  30. [11/18/2013 8:28:36 PM] dillyg10: He does the majority of the vision.
  31. [11/18/2013 8:28:43 PM | Removed 8:29:16 PM] Eric | Vyzon: This message has been removed.
  32. [11/18/2013 8:28:49 PM] dillyg10: And yes this is speculation, but I have enough evidence from multiple sources that points this out.
  33. [11/18/2013 8:29:19 PM] Kain zo: I dont think jeb is a bad dev, hes just not a project lead/manager
  34. [11/18/2013 8:29:53 PM] dillyg10: No Kain, Jeb was incompetent to handle Minecraft when Notch handed it to him… that is why Dinnerbone was added.
  35. [11/18/2013 8:30:09 PM] dillyg10: So, basically there is one dev.
  36. [11/18/2013 8:30:16 PM] dillyg10: Working on a multimillion dollar game.
  37. [11/18/2013 8:30:23 PM] Kain zo: no
  38. [11/18/2013 8:30:28 PM] Kain zo: your story is bad
  39. [11/18/2013 8:30:40 PM] Kain zo: Its natural for games to pick up more members on their team
  40. [11/18/2013 8:30:46 PM] Kain zo: grum and dinnerbone were great additions to minecraft
  41. [11/18/2013 8:30:50 PM] Kain zo: a bigger team is good
  42. [11/18/2013 8:31:06 PM] dillyg10: The rest were tossed under the bus, and are kept there because they "fit the mojang culture" and for mojang to say they are working on the mod API
  43. [11/18/2013 8:31:30 PM] Kain zo: Honestly dont care if the mod api comes out or not
  44. [11/18/2013 8:31:30 PM] Kain zo: it wont change much
  45. [11/18/2013 8:31:37 PM] Kain zo: and its been 2 years
  46. [11/18/2013 8:31:41 PM] Kain zo: so count on it never hitting daylight
  47. [11/18/2013 8:32:37 PM] dillyg10: Minecraft will start to go down hard, possibly exponentially.
  48. [11/18/2013 8:32:53 PM] dillyg10: Kain, if the Mod APi doesn't come out in the next year
  49. [11/18/2013 8:32:55 PM] dillyg10: Developers are hitting the threshold for MC servers
  50. [11/18/2013 8:33:19 PM] Kain zo: I've personally met with jeb/grum and others on the 'team' - you personafy them into things they are not.
  51. [11/18/2013 8:34:12 PM] dillyg10: Well I have no other way to personify them, I have no problem with Grum
  52. [11/18/2013 8:34:22 PM] dillyg10: Grum has done nothing wrong.
  53. [11/18/2013 8:34:33 PM] dillyg10: Jeb has not stepped up to the plate for Minecraft.
  54. [11/18/2013 8:34:42 PM] dillyg10: And that is evident.
  55. [11/18/2013 8:34:57 PM] dillyg10: I am acceptant of the fact that we will never get a mod API
  56. [11/18/2013 8:34:59 PM] dillyg10: but god damn.
  57. [11/18/2013 8:35:04 PM] dillyg10: it doesn't make it right.
  58. [11/18/2013 8:35:13 PM] dillyg10: Mojang is burying their own grave.
  59. [11/18/2013 8:35:46 PM] Nate(evilmidget38): You seem to know very little about them, so perhaps you shouldn't try and personify them?
  60. [11/18/2013 8:35:58 PM] dillyg10: Seph is nearly burying Bukkit's grave
  61. [11/18/2013 8:36:08 PM] dillyg10: which will in turn burry Mojang's.
  62. [11/18/2013 8:36:29 PM] Kain zo: Ive met jeb on three ocassions and hes a great guy
  63. [11/18/2013 8:36:33 PM] Kain zo: a normal guy
  64. [11/18/2013 8:36:34 PM] Kain zo: its impossible for him to live up to your expectations :P
  65. [11/18/2013 8:37:27 PM] dillyg10: I'm not saying he's a bad person, I'm sure he's nice, but at the end of the day he needs to step up to the plate. Grum said it himself, he hasn't coded a lick of anything.
  66. [11/18/2013 8:38:19 PM] dillyg10: Do I expect him to sit there and code the entire mod API? No. But they have had ample time, ample resources, I'm not sure what they are missing to get it done… it's just something I can't, and possibly will never, figure out.
  67. [11/18/2013 8:38:28 PM] dillyg10: Forge managed to do it.
  68. [11/18/2013 8:38:43 PM] dillyg10: Theirs isn't perfect, but at least they have something lol.
  69. [11/18/2013 8:38:56 PM] Kain zo: So you want him to be fired?
  70. [11/18/2013 8:38:58 PM] Kain zo: doesnt make any sense
  71. [11/18/2013 8:39:00 PM | Edited 8:39:04 PM] dillyg10: Wouldn't be a bad idea for Mojang to hire some forge people on the team, no?
  72. [11/18/2013 8:39:04 PM] Nate(evilmidget38): You're comparing forge to a modding api?
  73. [11/18/2013 8:39:30 PM] dillyg10: They seem to fit "their culture" pretty well.
  74. [11/18/2013 8:39:37 PM] Kain zo: You're stuck inside of your little sphere and aren't considering the other things "on the plate"
  75. [11/18/2013 8:39:57 PM] Kain zo: I'm not saying that as insulting, but there's more to it than just the multiplayer side of Minecraft
  76. [11/18/2013 8:40:07 PM] Kain zo: and there's more things in the pipe / to be considered than just rushing out an API that will change the entire face of minecraft
  77. [11/18/2013 8:40:13 PM] dillyg10: What other things are so deadly important that Mojang has had stale progress on the API.
  78. [11/18/2013 8:40:40 PM] dillyg10: And Forge offers a pretty comprehensive modding API.
  79. [11/18/2013 8:41:02 PM] dillyg10: Kain, if you think like that, then you are just as close minded as I.
  80. [11/18/2013 8:41:26 PM] dillyg10: Because guess what, Minecraft really is multiplayer.
  81. [11/18/2013 8:41:39 PM] dillyg10: Yes there is the 1% of people who play vanilla survival
  82. [11/18/2013 8:41:45 PM] dillyg10: and the other 9% that play single player mods
  83. [11/18/2013 8:42:12 PM] dillyg10: but that 90%…. yeah they matter, because the people who play multiplayer are the people who buy merch from mojang
  84. [11/18/2013 8:42:17 PM] dillyg10: who will buy Realms subs
  85. [11/18/2013 8:43:11 PM] dillyg10: who continue to play mine craft, and guess what, the more people who play mine craft, the more people who play the game, and the more monay mojang makes.
  86. [11/18/2013 8:43:50 PM] Nate(evilmidget38): I don't think I can take you seriously if you're comparing Forge to the modding API.
  87. [11/18/2013 8:45:30 PM] dillyg10: Midget I have an elementary understanding of Forge, from what I understand it provides an API for developers to create entities blocks etc.
  88. [11/18/2013 8:45:35 PM] dillyg10: Am I incorrect?
  89. [11/18/2013 8:47:12 PM] Nate(evilmidget38): It's more or less a basic plugin loading system that lets you hook into the minecraft internals.  In terms of an API, it's very  minimal.
  90. [11/18/2013 8:49:21 PM] dillyg10: Still.. they must have something figured out. Considering the fact they are able to tackle some of the biggest tasks with the mod API (creating blocks, entities etc.) and sending that info to a client.
  91. [11/18/2013 8:51:28 PM] dillyg10: But that takes away from the point.
  92. [11/18/2013 8:51:45 PM] dillyg10: It feels like Mojang has this skewed view of the multiplayer world
  93. [11/18/2013 8:51:58 PM] dillyg10: I think someone in a panel compared Bukkit to a permissions loading system.
  94. [11/18/2013 8:52:31 PM] Ethan > RC Network: there are different perspectives
  95. [11/18/2013 8:56:29 PM] Kain zo: some people are so entitled its almost sickening haha
  96. [11/18/2013 8:57:27 PM] dillyg10: ?
  97. [11/18/2013 9:03:42 PM] Callan: by the way! i am teaching people to build for a modest price and trust me when i say it works :P
  98. [11/18/2013 9:03:42 PM] Callan: just sayin
  99. [11/18/2013 9:18:04 PM | Edited 9:18:11 PM] dillyg10: Well.
  100. [11/18/2013 9:18:26 PM] dillyg10: I guess we're just back where we started.
  101. [11/18/2013 9:18:40 PM | Edited 9:18:53 PM] dillyg10: Thanks for having the balls to try matt, maybe one day Mojang will open their eyes.
  102. [11/18/2013 9:48:40 PM] Matthew (stick): kainz is a retard im sorry
  103. [11/18/2013 9:48:52 PM] Matthew (stick): a complete and utter retard, they are a 300+ million dollar corporation
  104. [11/18/2013 9:51:30 PM] *** Matthew (stick) removed Kain zo from this conversation. ***
  105. [11/18/2013 9:51:36 PM] Matthew (stick): calling people entitled... its business
  106. [11/18/2013 9:58:19 PM] arskhelios: Anybody wanna lend me $55?
  107. [11/18/2013 9:58:41 PM | Edited 9:58:52 PM] dillyg10: for what?
  108. [11/18/2013 11:30:21 PM] Minecraftrocks15: for his pornhub subscription ^^
  109. [11/19/2013 12:01:02 AM | Removed 12:01:26 AM] YoshiGenius [Dev]: This message has been removed.
  110. [11/19/2013 12:01:03 AM | Removed 12:01:26 AM] YoshiGenius [Dev]: This message has been removed.
  111. [11/19/2013 12:01:18 AM | Removed 12:01:26 AM] YoshiGenius [Dev]: This message has been removed.
  112. [11/19/2013 12:16:33 AM] *** Nate(evilmidget38) has left ***
  113. [11/19/2013 4:14:12 AM] Erik Broes: Now that is hilarious, I get no say in if i want to be in this chat, thanks Skype >.>
  114. [11/19/2013 4:17:52 AM] Exotic Bud: You can only be added to a group chat by people you have in your contact list afaik
  115. [11/19/2013 4:19:09 AM] Erik Broes: You normally get some form of confirmation to actually join
  116. [11/19/2013 4:19:18 AM] Erik Broes: at least, i thought so ;)
  117. [11/19/2013 4:21:44 AM] Erik Broes: [Monday, November 18, 2013 8:51 PM] dillyg10:
  118.  
  119. <<< It feels like Mojang has this skewed view of the multiplayer worldAnd this is why Forge is not accepted for any big multiplayer stuff, because they are missing Bukkit's permissions
  120. [11/19/2013 4:25:20 AM] Erik Broes: Sofar the Forge people are using the changes we did in the code in favor of doing their own system, like the textureatlas in 1.5, the way to install mods with the new launcher, resourcepack stuff in 1.6, and dynamic id assignment in 1.7
  121. [11/19/2013 4:26:17 AM] 9gigsofram :): [Tuesday, November 19, 2013 4:18 AM] Erik Broes:
  122.  
  123. <<< You normally get some form of confirmation to actually join
  124. at least, i thought so ;)Nah your contacts can pretty much add you to any chat, it's been abused before and i've been added to like 20 spam chats
  125. [11/19/2013 4:26:20 AM] Erik Broes: Seems to be a good balance sofar, we prep the major features, they fully implement them ahead and we can learn from the issues they had.
  126. [11/19/2013 4:27:10 AM] 9gigsofram :): http://gyazo.com/5b9730eeceb389ba3ec608a3250d07b3
  127. [11/19/2013 4:27:13 AM] 9gigsofram :): those :P
  128. [11/19/2013 4:28:17 AM] Erik Broes: We could relatively trivially make an api like Forge or Bukkit, but what would it give us? It would code us straight into a ditch where we have to support things that will prevent us from progressing later.
  129. [11/19/2013 4:30:33 AM] Erik Broes: Since we already have Bukkit and Forge, it seems silly to make a 3rd that in no way is better, which is why we chose to try and actually do it better, restructure the full code *while* the game continues to release and add stuff. So almost everything added is by Jeb/Dinnerbone, almost everything changed is by Dinnerbone/me. The intention is to have Dinnerbone do less of adding, more of changing, which is why 1.7 is so painful, we ended up changing a hell of a lot of things.
  130. [11/19/2013 4:31:36 AM] Tomographics: Thanks for the explanation Grum.
  131. [11/19/2013 4:32:18 AM] Erik Broes: UltraMoogleMan and Searge will go into the part that 'changes' instead of 'adds' (keep in mind that sometimes by changing it you will add things, remember the ResourcePack change I did?) -- This means that we will see exponentional harder breaks in the future, so we can hopefully get to the point where the game itself is made by the API it provides.
  132. [11/19/2013 4:33:32 AM] Erik Broes: And for reference, the only alternative to do this was start from scratch, this is what we initially researched, it worked out that we would have to copy 70% of the code to even get anywhere in any sane timeframe, and it works out marginally slower to do it this way.
  133. [11/19/2013 4:34:43 AM] Erik Broes: And trust me, the way we've chosen is FAR harder for us devs, keeping things working and not exploding while changing how everything works puts significantly more pain in the process. The benefits are obvious too, things get tested (remember what i said about Forge)
  134. [11/19/2013 4:35:12 AM] Erik Broes: Now obvious from any lamens point of view we're:
  135. [11/19/2013 4:35:17 AM] Erik Broes: 1) not making any progress at all
  136. [11/19/2013 4:35:35 AM] Erik Broes: 2) Forge is implementing all the things we should be doing
  137. [11/19/2013 4:40:00 AM] Erik Broes: and for that '1' is true, its slow going, we have a lot of extra cruft to handle, think of Twitch, that has been a project running since May. We also have had two people go, until then we had extra overhead of making sure that went ok. We have two new people, which means we have to spend time on guiding them and making sure they do things in 'our way'. -- and on that note, getting two new people takes *far* more time than you'd ever know. And yes, most of that I've tried to do in my spare time but it in the end always leaks into 'office time'.
  138. [11/19/2013 4:41:10 AM] Erik Broes: for '2', that is only because I discuss with them what they can do for the new version and how I expect certain major code-changes to be used. They will then do an implementation, we'll do changes to make it easier for them (if we overlooked something) and meanwhile everyone complains because 'things change' and 'there is no API'.
  139. [11/19/2013 4:41:23 AM] Erik Broes: Without change there cannot ever be an API.
  140. [11/19/2013 4:41:55 AM] Erik Broes: On the whole Bukkit updates slow, I'm sure Matthew pasted it already, but go setup a pool of money so two devs can take a month of from work, that should speed it up.
  141. [11/19/2013 4:43:37 AM] Erik Broes: People complain heaps, but in the first two years less than a months of wages was donated to the Bukkit project. What do you guys really expect? You wouldn't be investing that much time if you weren't getting something back, and keep in mind that the 'satisfaction of doing a good/fun/hard/tough job' is not a motivator for all devs :D
  142. [11/19/2013 7:01:09 AM] dillyg10: Grum, the idea of updating while changing is just a bad idea. It means that developers/modders have to slowy update their code to the rash changes Mojang makes. Now you're probably thinking "well that's not a bad thing, I mean that's the point of updating!" The issue is that when this mod API comes all that work we spent updating the code for changes to accompany the Mod API would have been a waste of time. You guys might as well take 4-5 months, and let's be honest that is all it will take, to make all of the changes you need, get all the code ready and code in the mod API. It's a band aid approach. No one is begging for new biomes, no one is begging for horses or new blocks or whatever new features you guys plan to add. People are begging for a Mod API, and because you guys have delivered very little, say that it is low priority, that means you really aren't listening to the community.
  143. [11/19/2013 7:20:57 AM] James: I disagree. It's developers and server owners that want the Mod API. The player base itself doesn't care about a Mod API. The average 10 year old won't even know what that means. They want new features, otherwise they'll get bored. Players struggle changing their minecraft version even with the new launcher. So yes they can go on a forge based server if they know how to install mods successfully, but at the end of the day, if Mojang releases a major update and all it has behind the scene changes, players will wonder why they even bothered releasing a new update. To them, there would be nothing new. They need to keep the players happy. No players means no servers. Not necessarily the other way around. It's very hard to find a competent dev, so simply saying they need to hire more is easier said than done.
  144. [11/19/2013 7:24:15 AM] Erik Broes: 4-5 months to make the changes we need?
  145. [11/19/2013 7:24:17 AM] Erik Broes: are you kidding me? :D
  146. [11/19/2013 7:25:40 AM] Erik Broes: you do realize that horses, biome changes are all by jens?
  147. [11/19/2013 7:26:02 AM] Erik Broes: We've never said it is low priority, we never 'delivered little' -- be happy you perceive it as little, that means we did a good job.
  148. [11/19/2013 7:58:34 AM] dillyg10: You have actually said word-for-word that it was not a top priority.
  149. [11/19/2013 8:31:17 AM] Erik Broes: quote me.
  150. [11/19/2013 8:41:36 AM] dillyg10: Honestly, look up in the chat ;) it's there
  151. [11/19/2013 8:53:55 AM] MakeShift Dev: Dilly he never said that
  152. [11/19/2013 8:54:38 AM] MakeShift Dev: Matt said that
  153. [11/19/2013 8:54:44 AM] dillyg10: On 11/18/13, at 11:22 AM, Matthew (stick) wrote:
  154. > I have spoken to Grumm and he has relayed that the API rewrite is not a top priority and never has been a top priority, nor are they any closer to having an API released.
  155. >
  156.  
  157.  
  158. On 11/18/13, at 11:31 AM, Erik Broes wrote:
  159. > because:  I have spoken to Grumm and he has relayed that the API rewrite is not a top priority and never has been a top priority, nor are they any closer to having an API released.
  160. [11/19/2013 8:55:34 AM] MakeShift Dev: That was matt
  161. [11/19/2013 8:56:05 AM] MakeShift Dev: Why would Erik say he was talking to himself?
  162. [11/19/2013 9:02:28 AM] dillyg10: On 11/18/13, at 11:31 AM, Erik Broes wrote:
  163. > because:  I have spoken to Grumm and he has relayed that the API rewrite is not a top priority and never has been a top priority, nor are they any closer to having an API released.
  164. [11/19/2013 9:03:36 AM] MakeShift Dev: Erik is grumm
  165. [11/19/2013 9:08:41 AM] dillyg10: He wanted a quote, that's quote lol.
  166. [11/19/2013 9:09:11 AM | Edited 9:09:17 AM] dillyg10: Erik, I don't think you guys are evil, or going out of your way to make life difficult for Bukkit or plugin devs.
  167. [11/19/2013 9:09:26 AM] dillyg10: I think you guys are just misinformed honesty.
  168. [11/19/2013 9:09:40 AM] dillyg10: How do you see the Minecraft community as a whole?
  169. [11/19/2013 9:09:44 AM] MakeShift Dev: That's not a quote...
  170. [11/19/2013 9:10:26 AM | Removed 9:11:47 AM] dillyg10: This message has been removed.
  171. [11/19/2013 9:10:39 AM | Removed 9:11:45 AM] dillyg10: This message has been removed.
  172. [11/19/2013 9:10:41 AM] James: That was him quoting what Stickmenz said
  173. [11/19/2013 9:10:44 AM] dillyg10: OHHH
  174. [11/19/2013 9:11:42 AM] dillyg10: well
  175. [11/19/2013 9:12:16 AM] dillyg10: i hate Skype.
  176. [11/19/2013 9:13:12 AM] MakeShift Dev: xD
  177. [11/19/2013 9:53:55 AM] dillyg10: DAMMMM
  178. [11/19/2013 9:54:00 AM] dillyg10: BUYCRAFT BE CHANGIN THIER THEME
  179. [11/19/2013 9:57:00 AM] Tyler //  Minereach Network Owner // PPX Hosting Sr. Staff: link?
  180. [11/19/2013 10:00:14 AM] Curtis3321<3: HAHAHA
  181. [11/19/2013 10:00:14 AM] Curtis3321<3: ^^
  182. [11/19/2013 10:07:30 AM] Erik Broes: Feel free to actually find a quote where i say the API is no priority :D
  183. [11/19/2013 10:07:52 AM] Erik Broes: I know there must be some, pulled out of context, they always do ;)
  184. [11/19/2013 10:08:29 AM] Curtis3321<3: Why can't we all just be lovers
  185. [11/19/2013 10:11:17 AM] Erik Broes: because of the US
  186. [11/19/2013 10:23:51 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Whats wrong with you people hating on Bukkit?
  187. [11/19/2013 10:24:07 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: They provided an excellent api, and updates usually take a while, which I understand
  188. [11/19/2013 10:24:28 AM] Curtis3321<3: ^^
  189. [11/19/2013 10:24:30 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: 1.7 is a MASSIVE update to the source. Just be thankful they made this so you're able to use it.
  190. [11/19/2013 10:50:21 AM] Rob: lol
  191. [11/19/2013 10:59:29 AM] Mushroom | I do Graphics!: How do I make command blocks send message to player activating it?
  192. [11/19/2013 11:01:35 AM] Mushroom | I do Graphics!: when I do
  193. [11/19/2013 11:01:35 AM] MakeShift Dev: @p MSG hi?
  194. [11/19/2013 11:01:41 AM] Mushroom | I do Graphics!: tell @p blah blah
  195. [11/19/2013 11:01:44 AM | Edited 11:01:46 AM] Mushroom | I do Graphics!: it says invalid command block data
  196. [11/19/2013 11:01:44 AM] Curtis3321<3: msg @p hi
  197. [11/19/2013 11:01:46 AM] Curtis3321<3: i think?
  198. [11/19/2013 11:02:29 AM] Mushroom | I do Graphics!: Ok ill try both
  199. [11/19/2013 11:03:16 AM] Mushroom | I do Graphics!: same errors
  200. [11/19/2013 11:04:15 AM] MakeShift Dev: Don't use command blocks xD
  201. [11/19/2013 11:04:25 AM] MakeShift Dev: Are command blocks enabled?
  202. [11/19/2013 11:04:28 AM] Mushroom | I do Graphics!: Yess
  203. [11/19/2013 11:04:33 AM] Mushroom | I do Graphics!: might be my spigot
  204. [11/19/2013 11:04:34 AM] Mushroom | I do Graphics!: Idk
  205. [11/19/2013 11:05:06 AM] MakeShift Dev: Don't use spigot :P
  206. [11/19/2013 11:06:16 AM] Mushroom | I do Graphics!: What to use
  207. [11/19/2013 11:08:14 AM] MakeShift Dev: Well spigot is really buggy
  208. [11/19/2013 11:08:45 AM] MakeShift Dev: So if you have to have 1.7, you're stuck with spigot
  209. [11/19/2013 11:09:03 AM] Mushroom | I do Graphics!: Ah i see
  210. [11/19/2013 11:09:04 AM] Mushroom | I do Graphics!: ok
  211. [11/19/2013 11:11:30 AM] Erik Broes: or just wait for bukkit
  212. [11/19/2013 11:11:35 AM] Erik Broes: or group together and make an alternative
  213. [11/19/2013 11:12:02 AM] Erik Broes: or donate large sums of money into a pot so someone who works on Bukkit can afford to take a month of from work and spend more than just his spare time on updating
  214. [11/19/2013 11:12:28 AM] Erik Broes: or just run 1.6, it's trivial for people to run old version from the launcher
  215. [11/19/2013 11:13:05 AM] MakeShift Dev: 1.6 is probably better for now
  216. [11/19/2013 11:13:42 AM] Erik Broes: you are not even raging about the biggest upcoming change
  217. [11/19/2013 11:13:47 AM] Erik Broes: that usernames are not unique anymore in the future :P
  218. [11/19/2013 11:13:51 AM] Mushroom | I do Graphics!: Im just building anyway
  219. [11/19/2013 11:14:07 AM] Curtis3321<3: ^^ what Erik said, this is gunna get messy :)
  220. [11/19/2013 11:14:14 AM] Erik Broes: imagine the carnage that will bring
  221. [11/19/2013 11:14:20 AM] Erik Broes: (a *LOT* :P)
  222. [11/19/2013 11:14:36 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Maybe we could donate to bukkit if we were allowed to make profit from servers. ^_^
  223. [11/19/2013 11:15:46 AM] Erik Broes: you are already making profit, so that is a BS excuse
  224. [11/19/2013 11:15:51 AM] Erik Broes: just spend  bit less on advertisement
  225. [11/19/2013 11:15:57 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Currently im not actually
  226. [11/19/2013 11:15:58 AM] Curtis3321<3: yourself*
  227. [11/19/2013 11:16:20 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: donations only cover 50% of the cost on my server.
  228. [11/19/2013 11:16:30 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I wouldnt be running it if I had known I couldnt make some profit from it.
  229. [11/19/2013 11:16:37 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I'm pretty sure many others' wouldnt either.
  230. [11/19/2013 11:16:42 AM] Mushroom | I do Graphics!: I don't even make profit from my server
  231. [11/19/2013 11:16:48 AM] Mushroom | I do Graphics!: Im just hosting it for fun
  232. [11/19/2013 11:16:55 AM] Erik Broes: I've run a server for a year without making a profit of it
  233. [11/19/2013 11:16:55 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: And that'd make minecraft fall. Barely any more servers.
  234. [11/19/2013 11:16:58 AM] Erik Broes: without intending to make a profit of it
  235. [11/19/2013 11:17:02 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Yes, Erik
  236. [11/19/2013 11:17:03 AM] Erik Broes: people are just greedy
  237. [11/19/2013 11:17:09 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: But some people aim to make a profit from it.
  238. [11/19/2013 11:17:11 AM] James: Any ideas how Bukkit is going to handle the player ids, will they add a nice getId method to the player class?
  239. [11/19/2013 11:17:31 AM] Erik Broes: they should yes
  240. [11/19/2013 11:17:31 AM] Curtis3321<3: Servers are fucked. imo
  241. [11/19/2013 11:17:34 AM] Erik Broes: with 1.7
  242. [11/19/2013 11:17:34 AM] Curtis3321<3: with this change
  243. [11/19/2013 11:17:35 AM] Curtis3321<3: :P
  244. [11/19/2013 11:17:52 AM] Erik Broes: nah, they are fucked when we allow changing of names
  245. [11/19/2013 11:17:56 AM] Erik Broes: which we'll do, soonish
  246. [11/19/2013 11:17:57 AM] James: Yea… trying to plan ahead for BanManager
  247. [11/19/2013 11:18:01 AM] Curtis3321<3: ^^ is what im on about
  248. [11/19/2013 11:18:06 AM] Erik Broes: we are going ot be nice
  249. [11/19/2013 11:18:19 AM] Erik Broes: so we will have at least one version in between 'supporting' and 'allowing' renames
  250. [11/19/2013 11:18:40 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: oh dear.
  251. [11/19/2013 11:18:45 AM] Curtis3321<3: But a name has a UID now right?
  252. [11/19/2013 11:18:54 AM] Curtis3321<3: Or does that change when they change there name
  253. [11/19/2013 11:18:54 AM] Erik Broes: a player has a uuid and a name right now
  254. [11/19/2013 11:19:01 AM] Erik Broes: the uuid will never change
  255. [11/19/2013 11:19:09 AM] Erik Broes: (if they play online)
  256. [11/19/2013 11:19:11 AM] Curtis3321<3: Maybe bukkit / plugins could do something with that.
  257. [11/19/2013 11:19:16 AM] Erik Broes: they can
  258. [11/19/2013 11:19:16 AM] Curtis3321<3: Store them instead of the name
  259. [11/19/2013 11:19:18 AM] Erik Broes: indeed
  260. [11/19/2013 11:19:26 AM] Curtis3321<3: Why am i not a coder, cmon guys.
  261. [11/19/2013 11:19:28 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Minecraft has gone down.
  262. [11/19/2013 11:19:30 AM] Curtis3321<3: fuck me
  263. [11/19/2013 11:19:40 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I guarantee in 6 months there will be barely any players.
  264. [11/19/2013 11:19:53 AM] Erik Broes: Karl: based on which facts? :)
  265. [11/19/2013 11:19:57 AM] Curtis3321<3: (facepalm)
  266. [11/19/2013 11:20:03 AM] Alex - Infinity Network Founder - Legion -: LAWL
  267. [11/19/2013 11:20:06 AM] Alex - Infinity Network Founder - Legion -: not true
  268. [11/19/2013 11:20:11 AM] Curtis3321<3: Can i just jump of my house now?
  269. [11/19/2013 11:20:13 AM | Edited 11:20:22 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Based on google trends :)
  270. [11/19/2013 11:20:17 AM] Alex - Infinity Network Founder - Legion -: off*
  271. [11/19/2013 11:20:22 AM] Curtis3321<3: Alex, yolo.
  272. [11/19/2013 11:20:32 AM] Alex - Infinity Network Founder - Legion -: #yoloswag
  273. [11/19/2013 11:20:39 AM] Curtis3321<3: plz dnt tell my teacher. o wait i passed
  274. [11/19/2013 11:20:43 AM] Erik Broes: Karl: lol, google trends of what? :(
  275. [11/19/2013 11:21:02 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: http://www.google.co.uk/trends/explore?q=minecraft
  276. [11/19/2013 11:21:23 AM] Curtis3321<3: I'm just saying, school.
  277. [11/19/2013 11:21:38 AM] Curtis3321<3: School is a big factor, parents wont allow there children to play on the PC or w/e when they are in school.
  278. [11/19/2013 11:21:52 AM] Curtis3321<3: Hence big jump in players on weekends and holidays.
  279. [11/19/2013 11:22:08 AM] Curtis3321<3: imo.
  280. [11/19/2013 11:22:27 AM] Erik Broes: You do realize the forecast says it will be perfectly alive? ;D
  281. [11/19/2013 11:22:45 AM | Edited 11:22:57 AM] Curtis3321<3: Hes probably on about the drop AFTER school STARTED.
  282. [11/19/2013 11:23:11 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: So what are they doing with names then, Erik? Account renames?
  283. [11/19/2013 11:23:12 AM] Curtis3321<3: Watch in the December holidays (don't know if Americans get them lool) it'll jump up
  284. [11/19/2013 11:23:23 AM] Curtis3321<3: Figured you'd change the topic x_x
  285. [11/19/2013 11:23:54 AM] Curtis3321<3: wtf haha
  286. [11/19/2013 11:23:59 AM] Curtis3321<3: twerking was a trend on sunday
  287. [11/19/2013 11:24:03 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: xD
  288. [11/19/2013 11:24:14 AM] Erik Broes: Karl: yes, minecraft-ingame-name-renames
  289. [11/19/2013 11:24:34 AM] Curtis3321<3: ENGLAND VS GERMANY 2NYT
  290. [11/19/2013 11:24:50 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik, how is that meant to work?
  291. [11/19/2013 11:25:04 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Someone can grief someone as another name, then rename and they wont have a clue.
  292. [11/19/2013 11:25:24 AM] Curtis3321<3: Inb4 somebody with OP on a big server changes there namewithout deoping
  293. [11/19/2013 11:25:28 AM] Erik Broes: why? you can see the UUID of the player :)
  294. [11/19/2013 11:25:29 AM] Curtis3321<3: and somebody steals it
  295. [11/19/2013 11:25:36 AM] Erik Broes: ops wont be based on names
  296. [11/19/2013 11:25:37 AM] Curtis3321<3: gg server
  297. [11/19/2013 11:25:39 AM] Curtis3321<3: DAM
  298. [11/19/2013 11:25:41 AM] Curtis3321<3: MY IDEA
  299. [11/19/2013 11:25:41 AM] Curtis3321<3: GONE
  300. [11/19/2013 11:25:53 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Yes, but in the chat.
  301. [11/19/2013 11:25:53 AM] Erik Broes: everything in minecraft will stop being based on names
  302. [11/19/2013 11:25:56 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Above their head.
  303. [11/19/2013 11:26:00 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: [Tuesday, November 19, 2013 11:25 AM] Erik Broes:
  304.  
  305. <<< everything in minecraft will stop being based on names
  306. [11/19/2013 11:26:02 AM] Erik Broes: you cannot pick a name that is taken
  307. [11/19/2013 11:26:07 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Did you seriously say that?
  308. [11/19/2013 11:26:08 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: [Tuesday, November 19, 2013 11:25 AM] Erik Broes:
  309.  
  310. <<< everything in minecraft will stop being based on names
  311. [11/19/2013 11:26:16 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Are you serious, Erik?
  312. [11/19/2013 11:26:18 AM] Curtis3321<3: Erik, will there be a cooldown on how many times they can change.
  313. [11/19/2013 11:26:28 AM] Erik Broes: yes, a cooldown is very likely
  314. [11/19/2013 11:26:28 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: http://puu.sh/5n7lH.jpg
  315. [11/19/2013 11:26:35 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: [Tuesday, November 19, 2013 11:25 AM] Erik Broes:
  316.  
  317. <<< everything in minecraft will stop being based on names
  318. [11/19/2013 11:26:35 AM] Erik Broes: perhaps even a nominal fee to change the name
  319. [11/19/2013 11:26:40 AM] Curtis3321<3: Good, or a maximum amount of uses
  320. [11/19/2013 11:26:43 AM] Curtis3321<3: yeh, was getting to that
  321. [11/19/2013 11:26:49 AM] Erik Broes: we haven't decided
  322. [11/19/2013 11:26:53 AM] Erik Broes: but we'll do it smart
  323. [11/19/2013 11:27:04 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I see that it could be useful
  324. [11/19/2013 11:27:07 AM] Curtis3321<3: and profitable :O
  325. [11/19/2013 11:27:12 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: How long is a 'player ID'?
  326. [11/19/2013 11:27:13 AM] Erik Broes: not really, we do not want people doing it
  327. [11/19/2013 11:27:15 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: when names arent used
  328. [11/19/2013 11:27:15 AM] Curtis3321<3: Not that your rich;)
  329. [11/19/2013 11:27:30 AM] Erik Broes: Karl: euuh its a default UUID so i think 128bits
  330. [11/19/2013 11:28:11 AM] Erik Broes: so normally that would be 16 chars of hex
  331. [11/19/2013 11:28:11 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Thats going to put storage space up
  332. [11/19/2013 11:28:34 AM] Curtis3321<3: Essentials will break 100%
  333. [11/19/2013 11:28:34 AM] Erik Broes: yup, go deal with it
  334. [11/19/2013 11:28:50 AM] Curtis3321<3: like 100% of plugins to break
  335. [11/19/2013 11:28:50 AM] Curtis3321<3: gg
  336. [11/19/2013 11:28:56 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Why are Mojang making it hard on server owners?
  337. [11/19/2013 11:29:09 AM] Erik Broes: we're not?
  338. [11/19/2013 11:29:09 AM] James: Everything will break. I wonder how buycraft will work… Will players have to enter their name or ids.
  339. [11/19/2013 11:29:17 AM] MakeShift Dev: Essentials will update
  340. [11/19/2013 11:29:21 AM] Curtis3321<3: James, i already spoke to him;)
  341. [11/19/2013 11:29:24 AM] Curtis3321<3: He has plans
  342. [11/19/2013 11:29:29 AM] Erik Broes: we'll have a public api to do lookups from name->id and viceversa
  343. [11/19/2013 11:29:37 AM] James: There already is a public api
  344. [11/19/2013 11:29:47 AM] James: so plugins can already start switching over now if they want
  345. [11/19/2013 11:30:10 AM] Erik Broes: yup
  346. [11/19/2013 11:30:29 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: So basicly, every single plugin out there is fucked?
  347. [11/19/2013 11:31:00 AM] MakeShift Dev: Minecraft is focused on players not the few server owners
  348. [11/19/2013 11:31:21 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Loads of players own servers now
  349. [11/19/2013 11:31:31 AM] Erik Broes: plugins will have plenty of time to update
  350. [11/19/2013 11:31:31 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Theres atleast 2000 custom servers out there
  351. [11/19/2013 11:32:07 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: as a plugin developer, its still really annoying to have to change every few lines of my code
  352. [11/19/2013 11:32:20 AM] Erik Broes: its not that big a change
  353. [11/19/2013 11:32:41 AM] MakeShift Dev: 2000 < 100,000
  354. [11/19/2013 11:32:48 AM] Erik Broes: change the type of 'name' to UUID, rename the field to uuid, add a field for name
  355. [11/19/2013 11:32:48 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: it is if you have loads of plugins :(
  356. [11/19/2013 11:32:52 AM] Curtis3321<3: No hate, but Erik you say you hate us owners making profit, yet Dinnerbone sometimes says "I'm on the Hive" or "I'm playing on Hypixel" that's essentialy advertising, and then could lead Hive or Hypixel to make MORE money of that bit of advertising. > profit
  357. [11/19/2013 11:33:02 AM] Erik Broes: luckily you have some months to work on it then :D
  358. [11/19/2013 11:33:17 AM] Erik Broes: Am I dinnerbone?
  359. [11/19/2013 11:33:23 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Ok so erik.
  360. [11/19/2013 11:33:25 AM] Erik Broes: we are two different people, with two different opinions
  361. [11/19/2013 11:33:33 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: How do I convert my MySQL database with over 10,000 players to UUIDs rather than names, huh?
  362. [11/19/2013 11:33:43 AM] James: Write a script
  363. [11/19/2013 11:34:03 AM] Erik Broes: indeed
  364. [11/19/2013 11:34:06 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: :/
  365. [11/19/2013 11:34:14 AM] Erik Broes: you got them in right? you can update them
  366. [11/19/2013 11:34:22 AM] Erik Broes: you can request name->uuid in bulk
  367. [11/19/2013 11:34:25 AM] Erik Broes: so go go update
  368. [11/19/2013 11:34:52 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I still use a 1.2.5 bukkit jar lol
  369. [11/19/2013 11:34:53 AM] Curtis3321<3: http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/identifierapi/
  370. [11/19/2013 11:34:54 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: for plugins
  371. [11/19/2013 11:35:10 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: well, for most
  372. [11/19/2013 11:35:29 AM] Erik Broes: Karl: if you do not run the latest or second-latest version you are fucked
  373. [11/19/2013 11:35:32 AM] Erik Broes: but hey, you choose that yourself
  374. [11/19/2013 11:36:00 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: They still seem to work lol
  375. [11/19/2013 11:37:01 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik, I hope you realise username renames is one of the worst ideas ever. I thought item id's being removed was bad, but jesus christ..
  376. [11/19/2013 11:37:24 AM] Erik Broes: item ids being removed?
  377. [11/19/2013 11:37:44 AM] MakeShift Dev: Karl they are depreciated
  378. [11/19/2013 11:37:45 AM] Erik Broes: why is it a bad idea? we just need something other for a user that is unique, we have uuids
  379. [11/19/2013 11:37:51 AM] MakeShift Dev: Not removed
  380. [11/19/2013 11:38:03 AM] Erik Broes: deprecated?
  381. [11/19/2013 11:38:04 AM] MakeShift Dev: They still work
  382. [11/19/2013 11:38:10 AM] Erik Broes: they still exists
  383. [11/19/2013 11:38:18 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: they wont soon: http://puu.sh/5n7Qy.jpg
  384. [11/19/2013 11:38:24 AM] MakeShift Dev: Item ids
  385. [11/19/2013 11:38:28 AM] Erik Broes: which is good
  386. [11/19/2013 11:38:35 AM] Erik Broes: unless you really want to give out a random item when you give '1'
  387. [11/19/2013 11:38:48 AM] Erik Broes: because 1 is simply not guaranteed to be stone
  388. [11/19/2013 11:39:03 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: why?
  389. [11/19/2013 11:39:13 AM] Erik Broes: because you guys want an API
  390. [11/19/2013 11:39:23 AM] Erik Broes: which means dynamic assignment of the things that exist
  391. [11/19/2013 11:39:35 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: IDs were fine
  392. [11/19/2013 11:39:35 AM] Erik Broes: they are not unique
  393. [11/19/2013 11:39:44 AM] Erik Broes: names are
  394. [11/19/2013 11:39:52 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: couldnt mojang have made the /give command accept 'minecraft:##'
  395. [11/19/2013 11:39:54 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: rather than ruining plugins
  396. [11/19/2013 11:39:54 AM] Erik Broes: it does
  397. [11/19/2013 11:40:09 AM] Erik Broes: it just warns for the use of the 'old kind'
  398. [11/19/2013 11:40:09 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: then IDs should continue to be updated
  399. [11/19/2013 11:40:11 AM] MakeShift Dev: Material.STONE is better
  400. [11/19/2013 11:40:22 AM] Erik Broes: it accepts minecraft:stone
  401. [11/19/2013 11:40:34 AM] Erik Broes: or 20, or 30
  402. [11/19/2013 11:40:35 AM] Erik Broes: MakeShift: no, because 10 things are Material.STONE
  403. [11/19/2013 11:40:53 AM] Erik Broes: or 2000
  404. [11/19/2013 11:41:30 AM] MakeShift Dev: Then how are you going to do getType()?
  405. [11/19/2013 11:41:41 AM] Erik Broes: like we are doing now?
  406. [11/19/2013 11:41:45 AM] Erik Broes: it returns Blocks.STONE
  407. [11/19/2013 11:41:51 AM] Erik Broes: instead of Blocks.STONE.id
  408. [11/19/2013 11:42:48 AM] MakeShift Dev: What's going to be the new block definite system?
  409. [11/19/2013 11:43:15 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: You guys at Mojang should have a talk about your changes rather than doing what seems best. Consider the server owners & addon developers.
  410. [11/19/2013 11:44:11 AM] Erik Broes: We're doing what is needed
  411. [11/19/2013 11:44:17 AM] Erik Broes: there is really not that much of a problem
  412. [11/19/2013 11:44:43 AM] Erik Broes: MakeShift: that didn't make sense, what do you mean?
  413. [11/19/2013 11:45:42 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I hate updating plugins though. If it was a simple quick change, I'd be fine.
  414. [11/19/2013 11:45:52 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: But you're changing how ID's work, eventually how player names work
  415. [11/19/2013 11:46:21 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Whats wrong with item ID's? removing them isnt solving anything
  416. [11/19/2013 11:46:23 AM] Erik Broes: Which is good? because we want to have an API right?
  417. [11/19/2013 11:46:31 AM] Erik Broes: they arent being removed
  418. [11/19/2013 11:46:34 AM | Edited 11:46:34 AM] Erik Broes: they are just not unique
  419. [11/19/2013 11:46:51 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: How is block data going to work?
  420. [11/19/2013 11:46:58 AM | Edited 11:47:07 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Like mossy stone brick is '1'
  421. [11/19/2013 11:47:11 AM] Erik Broes: we'll drop data eventually as well
  422. [11/19/2013 11:47:24 AM | Edited 11:47:29 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: How will that work?
  423. [11/19/2013 11:48:04 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: How are you going to do mossy stone brick?
  424. [11/19/2013 11:48:09 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: and wool
  425. [11/19/2013 11:48:12 AM] Erik Broes: each type will just be a type itself?
  426. [11/19/2013 11:48:21 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: WOOL_RED
  427. [11/19/2013 11:48:22 AM] Erik Broes: so 16 blocks for wool
  428. [11/19/2013 11:48:22 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: or something?
  429. [11/19/2013 11:48:27 AM] Erik Broes: likely
  430. [11/19/2013 11:48:44 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Ok :/
  431. [11/19/2013 11:50:49 AM] Erik Broes: going to be more fun for fences
  432. [11/19/2013 11:51:13 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: fences only have 1 type dont they?
  433. [11/19/2013 11:51:17 AM] Erik Broes: as we have 12 variants of those :P
  434. [11/19/2013 11:51:22 AM] Erik Broes: nope, each shape == own id
  435. [11/19/2013 11:51:30 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: fences?
  436. [11/19/2013 11:51:56 AM] Erik Broes: oh 16 even sorry
  437. [11/19/2013 11:52:02 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: 16?
  438. [11/19/2013 11:52:07 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Are you on about stairs or something?
  439. [11/19/2013 11:52:11 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Fences only have 1 id
  440. [11/19/2013 11:52:14 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: and the client joins them
  441. [11/19/2013 11:52:18 AM] Erik Broes: 1x 0 connections, 4x1connection, 6x two connections, 4x 3 connections and 1x 4 connections
  442. [11/19/2013 11:52:25 AM] Erik Broes: not anymore.
  443. [11/19/2013 11:52:30 AM] Erik Broes: we'll fix that.
  444. [11/19/2013 11:52:57 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik, these ideas and all seem cool. Helpful for new developers.
  445. [11/19/2013 11:53:13 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: But its annoying to everyone who has already-coded plugins
  446. [11/19/2013 11:53:18 AM] Erik Broes: not sure how we should care
  447. [11/19/2013 11:53:30 AM] Erik Broes: if we care that way then we cannot do any changes, no changes means no progress
  448. [11/19/2013 11:54:05 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Changes to the game are good. To the api, they are not.
  449. [11/19/2013 11:54:22 AM] Erik Broes: we're not making change to the api
  450. [11/19/2013 11:54:26 AM] Erik Broes: there *IS* no api.
  451. [11/19/2013 11:54:43 AM] Erik Broes: which is why we're doing these changes, we do not want to have an API without these changes :)
  452. [11/19/2013 11:55:43 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Ok.
  453. [11/19/2013 11:55:50 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: How do I get a players 'ID'?
  454. [11/19/2013 11:56:03 AM] Erik Broes: no idea, we just do player.getUUID() :P
  455. [11/19/2013 11:56:11 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: theres 'player.getUniqueId()'
  456. [11/19/2013 11:56:13 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: is it that?
  457. [11/19/2013 11:56:23 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: thats the only one I see
  458. [11/19/2013 11:56:23 AM] Erik Broes: no idea
  459. [11/19/2013 11:56:35 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: probably isnt
  460. [11/19/2013 11:56:37 AM | Edited 11:56:37 AM] Rob: The unique id of a player is just the entity id
  461. [11/19/2013 11:56:57 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Theres no UUID option
  462. [11/19/2013 11:57:26 AM] Erik Broes: there is in my codebase ;)
  463. [11/19/2013 11:57:41 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Ill check if my jar is outdated
  464. [11/19/2013 11:57:47 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Shouldnt be cos its a new project
  465. [11/19/2013 11:58:07 AM] James: He's talking about NMS, you're referring to craftbukkit.
  466. [11/19/2013 11:58:33 AM] James: Unless you use the API library mojang provided, you won't have easy access to it until bukkit updates
  467. [11/19/2013 11:58:43 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: oh ok
  468. [11/19/2013 11:58:47 AM] James: That's assuming they add a method to get it that is
  469. [11/19/2013 11:59:06 AM] Erik Broes: they kinda have to :P
  470. [11/19/2013 11:59:11 AM] Erik Broes: else servers cannot prepare
  471. [11/19/2013 11:59:15 AM] Erik Broes: causing more mayhem when we do change ;)
  472. [11/19/2013 12:00:16 PM] James: You never know, they might leave it until a later date lol. They haven't stated how they're handling it so theres no point speculating.
  473. [11/19/2013 12:00:23 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: It seems as though mojang are trying to make it difficult
  474. [11/19/2013 12:00:52 PM] Erik Broes: why?
  475. [11/19/2013 12:00:54 PM] James: People are complaining theres no mod api, they're trying to make changes to implement one which people are also complaining about. (facepalm)
  476. [11/19/2013 12:01:03 PM] Erik Broes: 1) we're providing an api to do bulk lookups
  477. [11/19/2013 12:01:14 PM] Erik Broes: 1a) we'll provide a reverse lookup as well, shouldnt be needed but hell
  478. [11/19/2013 12:01:31 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: It would be useful
  479. [11/19/2013 12:01:37 PM] Erik Broes: 2) we'll give plenty of time (at least one version that fully supports it before allowing name-changes)
  480. [11/19/2013 12:01:51 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Is plenty of time a couple months?
  481. [11/19/2013 12:02:31 PM] Erik Broes: we might add the code in 1.7.x
  482. [11/19/2013 12:02:36 PM] Erik Broes: then we'll do 1.8
  483. [11/19/2013 12:02:41 PM] Erik Broes: and enable it with 1.9
  484. [11/19/2013 12:02:59 PM] Erik Broes: (enable renaming that is)
  485. [11/19/2013 12:03:21 PM] Erik Broes: or maybe late in 1.8, we'll see
  486. [11/19/2013 12:03:26 PM] Erik Broes: months at least :P
  487. [11/19/2013 12:03:37 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Ok.
  488. [11/19/2013 12:03:44 PM] Andrew (InPhaze) CoalitionMC Owner: 1.9 will be out next year probably 9 months min is my guess
  489. [11/19/2013 12:04:02 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: 6 months probably
  490. [11/19/2013 12:04:22 PM] Erik Broes: so it will only be a problem when someone is slacking
  491. [11/19/2013 12:05:14 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik, do mojang discuss everything they add? Like actually think through it
  492. [11/19/2013 12:05:25 PM] Erik Broes: yes
  493. [11/19/2013 12:05:33 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Lots of stuff in the game has ruined the experience in my opinion. Like horses, new flowers & tree types
  494. [11/19/2013 12:05:45 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: they're the 3 things I've disliked since hearing of
  495. [11/19/2013 12:05:53 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Its probably just me though :P
  496. [11/19/2013 12:06:56 PM] Erik Broes: i don't really care for that part
  497. [11/19/2013 12:06:59 PM] Erik Broes: i just care for the guts
  498. [11/19/2013 12:07:32 PM] MakeShift Dev: Andrew leave!
  499. [11/19/2013 12:10:21 PM] MakeShift Dev: Is Matt on
  500. [11/19/2013 12:15:53 PM] Rob: Erik
  501. [11/19/2013 12:16:07 PM] Rob: Is it possible that horses could be done client side? Because they really lag out when server side.
  502. [11/19/2013 12:18:15 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: That'd allow hacks to do a lot
  503. [11/19/2013 12:18:32 PM] Rob: Would it though?
  504. [11/19/2013 12:18:46 PM] Rob: It could just glitch the horse back like it would, say, a player
  505. [11/19/2013 12:18:54 PM] MakeShift Dev: Limit horse spawning
  506. [11/19/2013 12:18:56 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Yeah, that'd be better wouldnt it
  507. [11/19/2013 12:19:02 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: players glitching out
  508. [11/19/2013 12:19:11 PM] Rob: No, I mean when a player hacks
  509. [11/19/2013 12:19:23 PM] Rob: Eg, Fly, It just sends them back to their previous location
  510. [11/19/2013 12:19:23 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Dude lol
  511. [11/19/2013 12:19:28 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: the minecraft antihack is shite
  512. [11/19/2013 12:19:29 PM] Rob: It could do the same with a horse
  513. [11/19/2013 12:19:35 PM | Edited 12:19:41 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Best it does is stop a user flying after 15 seconds
  514. [11/19/2013 12:19:40 PM] Rob: :P
  515. [11/19/2013 12:19:46 PM] Rob: But plugins could still do the same
  516. [11/19/2013 12:28:04 PM] Curtis3321<3: <b>d</b>
  517. [11/19/2013 1:42:42 PM] Haxtor Moogle Kupo: anyone else have trouble editing buycraft server commands?
  518. [11/19/2013 1:43:41 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Whats the problem with it
  519. [11/19/2013 1:44:14 PM] Haxtor Moogle Kupo: you click the text box... and you cant do anything to it...
  520. [11/19/2013 1:44:23 PM] Haxtor Moogle Kupo: cant highlight cant edit cant do anything
  521. [11/19/2013 1:44:26 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Probably just your browser
  522. [11/19/2013 1:44:31 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I havent tried it recently
  523. [11/19/2013 1:44:36 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Are you on chrome?
  524. [11/19/2013 1:44:55 PM] Haxtor Moogle Kupo: nope firefox...
  525. [11/19/2013 1:44:57 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: If you're on chrome, you need to refresh the page
  526. [11/19/2013 1:44:58 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: It does that sometimes
  527. [11/19/2013 1:45:12 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: they're similar lol
  528. [11/19/2013 1:45:15 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Try refreshing
  529. [11/19/2013 1:45:21 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: or logging out and back in
  530. [11/19/2013 1:46:21 PM] Haxtor Moogle Kupo: no dice
  531. [11/19/2013 1:46:58 PM] Haxtor Moogle Kupo: cant even click the Initial  drop down
  532. [11/19/2013 1:47:08 PM] Haxtor Moogle Kupo: happens even on new commands
  533. [11/19/2013 1:47:50 PM] Drew: You have JavaScript disabled?
  534. [11/19/2013 1:48:04 PM] Haxtor Moogle Kupo: nope
  535. [11/19/2013 1:48:42 PM] Drew: Any plugins?
  536. [11/19/2013 1:49:38 PM] Haxtor Moogle Kupo: IE lets me click but no highlighing or editing
  537. [11/19/2013 1:52:08 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Are you on windows 98?
  538. [11/19/2013 1:52:49 PM] Rob: lol
  539. [11/19/2013 2:03:02 PM] Blaze // Graphics // Infinity Network Founder // Mysidia Team: windows 98 ftw
  540. [11/19/2013 2:03:09 PM] Blaze // Graphics // Infinity Network Founder // Mysidia Team: ethernet cable connection (heart)
  541. [11/19/2013 2:04:20 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: dial-up :)
  542. [11/19/2013 2:04:45 PM] Blaze // Graphics // Infinity Network Founder // Mysidia Team: omg
  543. [11/19/2013 2:04:56 PM] Blaze // Graphics // Infinity Network Founder // Mysidia Team: I used to have that for a bit when I was like 8
  544. [11/19/2013 2:04:56 PM] Blaze // Graphics // Infinity Network Founder // Mysidia Team: used to cost like 1p a minute :O
  545. [11/19/2013 2:15:42 PM] Haxtor Moogle Kupo: fuck that im using dos!
  546. [11/19/2013 2:15:46 PM | Edited 2:16:04 PM] Haxtor Moogle Kupo: http://wtfmoogle.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/img446.jpg
  547. [11/19/2013 2:16:24 PM] Haxtor Moogle Kupo: and yes that is my first 2 computers
  548. [11/19/2013 2:16:46 PM | Edited 2:16:49 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Keyboard is better than my current one ^_^
  549. [11/19/2013 2:17:16 PM] Haxtor Moogle Kupo: i know right lol
  550. [11/19/2013 2:17:26 PM] Haxtor Moogle Kupo: clicky clicky keys
  551. [11/19/2013 4:00:09 PM] MakeShift Dev: Can someone tell me when Matthew (stick) is on?
  552. [11/19/2013 5:26:03 PM] dillyg10: Ugh
  553. [11/19/2013 5:26:20 PM] dillyg10: Erik, why are you letting people change their names ;(
  554. [11/19/2013 5:26:25 PM] dillyg10: it's not even a problem with coding
  555. [11/19/2013 5:26:33 PM] dillyg10: it's just stupid
  556. [11/19/2013 5:26:51 PM] dillyg10: Give me one good argument for allowing a user to change their name, honestly.
  557. [11/19/2013 5:50:20 PM] Jason Bratt: LETS BRING BACK HMOD!
  558. [11/19/2013 5:50:48 PM] Jason Bratt: I'm making a hmod booth at minecon 2014
  559. [11/19/2013 5:51:22 PM] Jason Bratt: You'll only be able to play with it on MC Alpha though.
  560. [11/19/2013 5:51:37 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: http://gyazo.com/09aa1eb2651945bd3757e23c50cd84fe
  561. [11/19/2013 5:52:15 PM] Jason Bratt: Why does felipe have a [Trusted] tag?
  562. [11/19/2013 5:52:28 PM] Jason Bratt: What is thi smadness
  563. [11/19/2013 6:11:01 PM] dillyg10: yeah, who the hell trusts felipe?
  564. [11/19/2013 6:30:24 PM] Trial Mod | Humpcraft.com | innerd | Redstoneer | Nerd: Insanehero, remind me what hmod is?
  565. [11/19/2013 7:48:31 PM | Edited 7:48:33 PM] James | Dev: anyone looking for a minigame? (TDM, FFA, Infection)
  566. [11/19/2013 10:16:12 PM] Eric | Vyzon: James do you have the minigame turtle smashers?
  567. [11/19/2013 10:16:31 PM] Eric | Vyzon: I wish that was a minigame it sounds fun
  568. [11/19/2013 10:16:32 PM] Eric | Vyzon: Lol
  569. [11/19/2013 10:16:42 PM] Eric | Vyzon: Spu where are you we need you to make a minigame!!
  570. [11/19/2013 10:24:25 PM] Gianluca // CML100: Guys, is almost every server owner here, the owner of a minigame server?
  571. [11/19/2013 10:24:42 PM] Eric | Vyzon: Not even close
  572. [11/19/2013 10:25:29 PM] Gianluca // CML100: Ahhh.. Because thats really what I see in the chat
  573. [11/19/2013 10:25:33 PM] Eric | Vyzon: I am the only minigame server owner here. I own hypixel, hivemc, oc.tc, shotbow and mineplex
  574. [11/19/2013 10:25:42 PM] Eric | Vyzon: :P
  575. [11/19/2013 10:26:12 PM] Gianluca // CML100: Haha
  576. [11/19/2013 10:26:53 PM] ©heeze: those damn minigames
  577. [11/19/2013 10:27:05 PM] ©heeze: knocked my server from 1st place
  578. [11/19/2013 10:27:35 PM] ©heeze: around a year ago.. I had the highest traffic in the world
  579. [11/19/2013 10:27:51 PM] innerd | Mod | Humpcraft.com | Redstoneer: I can prob make a minigame, I am a redstoner
  580. [11/19/2013 10:29:34 PM] Eric | Vyzon: ^ was that a joke?
  581. [11/19/2013 10:30:22 PM] innerd | Mod | Humpcraft.com | Redstoneer: what I said, I thought you guys were referring to a downloadable map
  582. [11/19/2013 10:30:26 PM] ©heeze: ^ who was that directed to
  583. [11/19/2013 10:30:40 PM] innerd | Mod | Humpcraft.com | Redstoneer: Nvm..
  584. [11/19/2013 10:30:55 PM | Edited 10:31:11 PM] Eric | Vyzon: Cheeze what server do/did u own?
  585. [11/19/2013 11:06:11 PM] MakeShift Dev: I own nipplecraft and that's in apples autocorrect xD
  586. [11/19/2013 11:15:32 PM | Edited 11:16:03 PM] ©heeze: [8:30:43 PM | Edited 8:30:54 PM] Eric | Vyzon: Cheeze what server do/did u own?
  587. Shadowraze
  588. [12:35:37 AM] Erik Broes: [Tuesday, November 19, 2013 5:27 PM] dillyg10:
  589.  
  590. <<< Give me one good argument for allowing a user to change their name, honestly.Because many people have requested it, and this is the cleanest way to do it without having it break everything
  591. [12:36:37 AM] Jason Bratt: What about hackers though?
  592. [12:36:43 AM] Erik Broes: What about them?
  593. [12:36:49 AM] Jason Bratt: How do you ban someone if they can just keep changing their username
  594. [12:37:06 AM] Erik Broes: you do not ban on username
  595. [12:37:09 AM] Erik Broes: you ban on their unique id
  596. [12:37:12 AM] 9gigsofram :): i can see it now, kids changing thier names bad language and such
  597. [12:37:19 AM] 9gigsofram :): then spamming servers with a few 100 accounts
  598. [12:37:27 AM] 9gigsofram :): but it's  a requested feature
  599. [12:37:29 AM] Erik Broes: and paying 100 times to change
  600. [12:37:33 AM] Jason Bratt: It really is a bad idea....
  601. [12:37:36 AM] 9gigsofram :): so as long as its implemnted properly its fine
  602. [12:37:47 AM] 9gigsofram :): oh i heard early on that it would be free
  603. [12:37:52 AM] Jason Bratt: How much is it to change?
  604. [12:37:52 AM] Erik Broes: you are missing the fact that it will almost 100% sure be paid AND on a cooldown
  605. [12:38:04 AM] Jason Bratt: So its a money thing...i see what's going on here...
  606. [12:38:28 AM] Erik Broes: It's not, we do not want people to do it, BUT we see the legitimate usecase for it
  607. [12:38:32 AM] 9gigsofram :): money is a good way to limit it
  608. [12:38:37 AM] Erik Broes: especially since we'll release ~25million currently taken names
  609. [12:39:02 AM] 9gigsofram :): to prevent illigitimate changes ect
  610. [12:41:26 AM] Jason Bratt: Will players be able to have the same names? If it's based on ID rather than name
  611. [12:42:40 AM] Erik Broes: no, names are unique
  612. [12:42:50 AM] Erik Broes: and mostlikely we'll block the old name to be used for 'more than a single cooldown'
  613. [12:43:08 AM] Jason Bratt: Ok good
  614. [12:43:10 AM] Erik Broes: (so if someone somehow manages to get hold of your account, changes your name, you can still get it back)
  615. [12:44:20 AM] YoshiGenius [Dev]: Grumm: Just make sure there's an easy way to grab their unique user id, like Steam allows for, if possible. kthnx
  616. [12:45:25 AM] 9gigsofram :): click username get uuid :O
  617. [12:45:31 AM | Edited 12:45:35 AM] 9gigsofram :): op flagged or somthing
  618. [12:46:06 AM] YoshiGenius [Dev]: EntityPlayer#getPlayerId()
  619. [12:46:07 AM] YoshiGenius [Dev]: I hope.
  620. [12:46:26 AM] YoshiGenius [Dev]: Steam formats like:
  621.  
  622. STEAM_X_XX:XXX:XXX
  623. [12:46:28 AM] YoshiGenius [Dev]: Something like that.
  624. [12:46:31 AM] Erik Broes: that's upto bukkit, 1.7 mojang code has getUUID()
  625. [12:46:41 AM] YoshiGenius [Dev]: That'll be used?
  626. [12:47:02 AM] YoshiGenius [Dev]: Isn't that used for the unique entity id in the world, currently?
  627. [12:49:42 AM] Erik Broes: i have no idea, i do not care, it exist in our code
  628. [12:49:53 AM] Erik Broes: Bukkit should end up exposing it
  629. [12:52:42 AM] Erik Broes: here is no usecase to lookup uuids from chat
  630. [12:52:45 AM] Erik Broes: we might add it, but its not likely
  631. [12:53:20 AM] 9gigsofram :): well it would be nice for banning users is all, but it's not really needed
  632. [12:54:25 AM] Erik Broes: why? you can just do /ban username
  633. [12:54:28 AM] Erik Broes: it will look it up for you
  634. [12:54:41 AM] 9gigsofram :): o
  635. [12:56:21 AM] Erik Broes: remember we will do a seamless integration from the users perspective
  636. [12:56:26 AM] Erik Broes: because we can
  637. [12:56:53 AM] Erik Broes: its just that stuff like plugins sofar have used the username as 'unique' thing instead of the players new unique thing, the uuid
  638. [12:57:48 AM] YoshiGenius [Dev]: Thanks for the heads up, in that case. ^_^
  639. [12:59:36 AM] Erik Broes: so if you have a banlist, ops list, whitelist… those will be converted on server-start
  640. [12:59:54 AM] Erik Broes: banning, opping, whitelisting will automagically look up the uuid
  641. [1:03:46 AM] Erik Broes: it kinda keeps amazing me how little brains you think are working at Mojang :/
  642. [1:03:56 AM] Erik Broes: eventhough there is little proof for such things :)
  643. [1:07:47 AM] YoshiGenius [Dev]: So, one more thing. Will there be a cross-over build?
  644. [1:07:53 AM] Jason Bratt: There's little proof because you guys don't always communicate with us and we feel left in the dark on things
  645. [1:08:03 AM] YoshiGenius [Dev]: i.e. one where we can lookup the id through their name
  646. [1:08:10 AM] YoshiGenius [Dev]: Plugins like Essentials will need to do that.
  647. [1:08:34 AM] Jason Bratt: You being active in this chat now helps :)
  648. [1:08:48 AM] Erik Broes: 'crossoverbuild' ?
  649. [1:09:22 AM] Erik Broes: oh, yes, lookup, is actually already active, go dig in mollstams tweets
  650. [1:09:30 AM] Erik Broes: there is an api available for bulk-lookup
  651. [1:40:02 AM] YoshiGenius [Dev]: Awesome.
  652. [6:58:57 AM | Removed 6:59:27 AM] dillyg10: This message has been removed.
  653. [7:23:35 AM] *** Mac has left ***
  654. [8:20:11 AM] Blaze // Graphics // Infinity Network Founder // Mysidia Team: Ffs are you kidding me 1.7.3 is out tomorrow WAIT FOR BUKKIT
  655. [8:21:32 AM] Eric | Vyzon: Hopefully it fixes all dem bugs
  656. [8:21:49 AM | Edited 8:22:06 AM] Luke - DiamondXF // PPX Hosting: Do you know what buk it, i'm done
  657. [8:21:50 AM] Luke - DiamondXF // PPX Hosting: :P
  658. [8:22:19 AM] Luke - DiamondXF // PPX Hosting: That could mean multiple things
  659. [8:22:37 AM | Edited 8:22:50 AM] Eric | Vyzon: if anyone here wants to send me $10,000 I would love you
  660. [8:39:04 AM] Blaze // Graphics // Infinity Network Founder // Mysidia Team: Same ^
  661. [9:04:39 AM] Dwight / Daegonner: Tomorrow? How do you know?
  662. [9:19:39 AM | Removed 9:19:49 AM] dillyg10: This message has been removed.
  663. [12:39:39 PM] Erik Broes: [8:20 AM] Blaze // Graphics // Infinity Network Founder // Mysidia Team:
  664.  
  665. <<< Ffs are you kidding me 1.7.3 is out tomorrow WAIT FOR BUKKITit is not. a snapshot will be
  666. [12:41:45 PM] MakeShift Dev: Minecraft has to keep updating to keep interest, they won't wait...
  667. [12:46:28 PM] Erik Broes: MakeShift: that is now how it works, we keep updating because we're adding stuff because its fun
  668. [12:49:17 PM] Erik Broes: and we want to get to an API :)
  669. [12:52:19 PM | Edited 12:52:39 PM] dillyg10: It's fun.
  670. [12:52:40 PM] dillyg10: that is your reasoning
  671. [12:52:41 PM] dillyg10: 2 years
  672. [12:52:43 PM] dillyg10: for taking
  673. [12:52:50 PM] dillyg10: to develop a simple API
  674. [12:52:52 PM] dillyg10: it's fun.
  675. [12:53:19 PM] dillyg10: Wow. I mean god.
  676. [12:53:20 PM] dillyg10: Before I thought it was just because you didn't have enough devs
  677. [12:53:38 PM] dillyg10: or because you just didn't think anyone would want an API
  678. [12:53:43 PM] dillyg10: or didn't know how
  679. [12:53:45 PM] dillyg10: but nope.
  680. [12:53:49 PM] dillyg10: It's beucase you were borred
  681. [12:53:51 PM] dillyg10: Coding an API.
  682. [12:54:00 PM] dillyg10: And because it was fun to code other stuff.
  683. [12:54:32 PM | Removed 12:54:35 PM] dillyg10: This message has been removed.
  684. [12:54:53 PM] MakeShift Dev: Dilly have you ever developed an API?
  685. [12:55:10 PM] dillyg10: For a game the size of Minecraft? No.
  686. [12:55:23 PM] dillyg10: But you know what, I have developed a lot of other things that aren't fun.
  687. [12:56:58 PM] MakeShift Dev: The thing is, something as large of a scale as the API bukkit's making, take a lot of time an isn't very lucrative for the developers working on it
  688. [12:57:05 PM] MakeShift Dev: It's a hobby
  689. [12:57:06 PM] Matthew (stick): Makeshift ur a retard, making excuses for an api taking 3.5 years from a 300+ million dollar company
  690. [12:57:16 PM] MakeShift Dev: Not a job
  691. [12:57:28 PM] MakeShift Dev: Mojang doesn't supply bukkit
  692. [12:57:32 PM] dillyg10: No, dublud
  693. [12:57:39 PM] dillyg10: It is Erik's jOB to code the API
  694. [12:57:40 PM] *** Matthew (stick) removed MakeShift Dev from this conversation. ***
  695. [12:57:41 PM] Matthew (stick): [Tuesday, November 19, 2013 11:16 AM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming:
  696.  
  697. <<< I wouldnt be running it if I had known I couldnt make some profit from it.[Tuesday, November 19, 2013 11:16 AM] Erik Broes:
  698.  
  699. <<< people are just greedy[Tuesday, November 19, 2013 11:26 AM] Erik Broes:
  700.  
  701. <<< perhaps even a nominal fee to change the name
  702. [12:57:41 PM] dillyg10: not his Hobby.
  703. [12:57:45 PM] Matthew (stick): Also, no more devs in this chat, this place is for server owners. period.
  704. [12:57:52 PM] MakeShift Dev: They left it up to the ones who use Bukkit to support it
  705. [12:57:53 PM] dillyg10: We're not talking about Bukkit, I've accepted the fact that Bukkit has taken so lon g, I don't blame them.
  706. [1:04:42 PM] Jason Bratt: [12:56 PM] Matthew (stick):
  707.  
  708. <<< I wouldnt be running it if I had known I couldnt make some profit from it.[Tuesday, November 19, 2013 11:16 AM] Erik Broes:
  709.  
  710. <<< people are just greedy
  711. [1:04:53 PM] Jason Bratt: So people trying to make a living is greedy...
  712. [1:05:19 PM] dillyg10: ^
  713. [1:05:34 PM] dillyg10: God forbid I make a few dollars from the hundreds of hours I put into my server.
  714. [1:06:08 PM] Eric | Vyzon: Lol "a few dollars" :P
  715. [1:08:07 PM] dillyg10: But noon, let's make a discussion out of this.
  716. [1:08:41 PM] dillyg10: On 11/20/13, at 12:46 PM, Erik Broes wrote:
  717. > MakeShift: that is now how it works, ------->we keep updating because we're adding stuff !!!!!!because its fun!!!!!!<------------
  718. [1:08:45 PM] Jason Bratt: Let's freaking not
  719. [1:08:52 PM] Jason Bratt: too many rants
  720. [1:11:08 PM] dillyg10: Toobad, respond this this someone. I need to understand this logic. I own a multi-million dollar company that has a large community of people that want an API to be developed, but we don't want to develop that API because we aren't having fun doing it.
  721. [1:12:48 PM | Edited 1:15:09 PM] Jason Bratt: Erik never even said that, stop trying to make things worst than they sound
  722. [1:47:13 PM] Matthew (stick): Jason, Grum did say he asked mojang for more devs to make the API work go faster (like 8 months ago) and was denied, until very recently
  723. [1:47:48 PM] Matthew (stick): it just shows that mojang dosnt like big servers, dosnt like modded servers, has no respect for server owners (from grumm's greedy comments), etc.
  724. [1:47:59 PM] Matthew (stick): its not a priority for them
  725. [2:31:47 PM] Erik Broes: On 11/20/13, at 6:53 PM, tech_star wrote:
  726. > It's beucase you were borred
  727.  
  728. It actually is because I like to solve complex problem, building an API in minecraft *is* such a problem :)
  729. [2:31:56 PM] CHarrisMedia: How can you get a 1.7.2 biome on a server like daegonner?
  730. [2:32:28 PM] Erik Broes: Matt: it was never denied ever
  731. [2:33:52 PM] Erik Broes: it just takes time, i debated the 'room to grow' with Carl, we ended up at a yes, we decided to look around for suitable people before 'just opening an ad for a position' -- I found multiple people, after lots of talking two worked out and those have joined now.
  732. [2:35:31 PM] Erik Broes: On 11/20/13, at 7:10 PM, tech_star wrote:
  733. > Toobad, respond this this someone. I need to understand this logic. I own a multi-million dollar company that has a large community of people that want an API to be developed, but we don't want to develop that API because we aren't having fun doing it.
  734.  
  735. How on earth do you reckon we're not having fun making the API? its hard to do, but we're doing it?
  736. [2:36:26 PM] Erik Broes: And I love my job, as does Dinnerbone, so hell, how are we not having fun? :D
  737. [2:38:24 PM] Erik Broes: The only thing that is not so much fun, is random clueless people making up all kinds of random shit and spouting it around like truths :)
  738. [2:39:00 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: (kind of unrelated) Erik I like you man however, I feel you need to understand that not all large networks are run to "profit" however, allow donations to grow and expand
  739. [2:39:34 PM] Erik Broes: I get its many people their likelihood, doesn't mean that it probably shouldn't have been.
  740. [2:40:08 PM] Erik Broes: and you know as well as I do, many things are just made to make the most amount of money, like most pay to play/win things.
  741. [2:41:36 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: Oh yes I understand, but what I feel is theres a large shadow over server owners which run servers / server networks are just out to make money
  742. [2:42:11 PM] Erik Broes: there should be, terms state they shouldn't do it, yet they do
  743. [2:42:48 PM] Erik Broes: meanwhile they change the way minecraft looks to the public, 'pay to win/play'-multiplayer is the first shit that pops up when you google
  744. [2:44:32 PM] dillyg10: I mean Erik
  745. [2:44:34 PM] Erik Broes: i *personally* do not like it, what Mojang as a company things beyond the standing rules, I have no idea
  746. [2:44:36 PM] dillyg10: It's not like we sit down and say
  747. [2:44:53 PM] dillyg10: "How can we get OP shit to people for money?"
  748. [2:45:00 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: Max // VoidCraft Servers calls a meeting with mojang
  749. [2:45:15 PM] dillyg10: It just ends up being that people who donate have a slight edge on people who don't
  750. [2:45:24 PM] Erik Broes: slight?
  751. [2:45:37 PM] Erik Broes: why would they even get an edge? that is pay to win
  752. [2:45:46 PM] dillyg10: Not necesarily.
  753. [2:45:52 PM] dillyg10: I've played on my server with no benifits
  754. [2:45:55 PM] dillyg10: and I've managed to win.
  755. [2:46:08 PM] dillyg10: It's all about balance.
  756. [2:46:19 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: imo if you want to win you will win, donating or not
  757. [2:46:26 PM] dillyg10:  ^
  758. [2:46:39 PM] dillyg10: i mean honestly i have never spent a cent on another major network's server
  759. [2:46:44 PM] dillyg10: and I still manage to win
  760. [2:46:59 PM] dillyg10: What servers have you been on that have things that you would consider to be OP?
  761. [2:47:14 PM] Erik Broes: there is no balance if you let it change with money
  762. [2:47:30 PM] Erik Broes: why not just do visual perks, or the ability to join 'the last slots' of games
  763. [2:48:23 PM] Erik Broes: you are just baiting gullible people with pay to win-shit
  764. [2:48:32 PM | Edited 2:48:38 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: I there needs to be a balance however, its not as black and white as you may think
  765. [2:48:42 PM] dillyg10: ^
  766. [2:48:48 PM] Erik Broes: there is no balance if  you can buy improvement
  767. [2:48:58 PM] dillyg10: The improvement is minor Erik
  768. [2:49:04 PM] Erik Broes: enough to unbalance
  769. [2:49:05 PM] dillyg10: I mean really, what servers have you been on
  770. [2:49:13 PM] dillyg10: that have this giant improvement that is an auto-win?
  771. [2:49:15 PM] Erik Broes: ANY changes like that will unbalance it
  772. [2:49:51 PM] Erik Broes: doesn't have to be auto-win, but any 'pay to win' means its just money-drawing bullshit
  773. [2:49:57 PM] Erik Broes: or, pay to be better
  774. [2:50:01 PM] dillyg10: No Erik honestly
  775. [2:50:02 PM] dillyg10: What servers have you been on?
  776. [2:50:15 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: however, its extremely difficult to run a network which is sustainable without worth while perks, or you are just screwing gullible people
  777. [2:50:35 PM] Erik Broes: yes it is, stop yakking about balance when you on purpose mess it up with monetary rewards
  778. [2:50:59 PM] dillyg10: Erik, still have not answered my question
  779. [2:51:02 PM] dillyg10: And it is an important one.
  780. [2:51:15 PM] Erik Broes: see, so the imbalances you buy are worthwhile enough for the player, so you acknowledge they fuck up balance
  781. [2:51:27 PM] dillyg10: Hold on max, let him answer my question.
  782. [2:51:32 PM] dillyg10: What servers have you been on?
  783. [2:51:45 PM] Erik Broes: which one? about which servers? its a general principle
  784. [2:52:17 PM] dillyg10: No, I need to know what specific servers.
  785. [2:52:17 PM] Erik Broes: look at hypixel for example
  786. [2:52:18 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: Erik I will not be discussing this with your further unless, you see it from someone perspective who is trying to fund a large community
  787. [2:52:27 PM | Removed 2:52:39 PM] dillyg10: This message has been removed.
  788. [2:52:32 PM] Erik Broes: http://store.hypixel.net/
  789. [2:52:42 PM | Edited 2:52:47 PM] dillyg10: Okay?
  790. [2:52:59 PM] dillyg10: What about it?
  791. [2:53:18 PM] Erik Broes: vip seems not to unbalance
  792. [2:53:33 PM] Erik Broes: vip+ does
  793. [2:54:16 PM] Erik Broes: pets do not, buying coins …. kinda sortof does, but you can get them through normal means too
  794. [2:54:27 PM] dillyg10: •  Double (2x) Coins gain in Quakecraft
  795. •  Double (2x) Coins gain in The Walls
  796. •  Double (2x) Coins gain in Paintball Warfare
  797. •  Double (2x) Coins gain in Blitz Survival Games
  798. •  Double (2x) Coins gain in TNT Games
  799. •  Double (2x) Coins gain in VampireZ
  800. •  A green name in chat
  801. •  Exclusive access to VIP only lounge
  802. •  Access to beta testing of future mini-games
  803. •  Access to some future beta adventure maps
  804. •  To receive a custom player head, type /head name
  805. •  Unlimited fireworks with a 15s timer /fw
  806. •  [VIP] tag in chat
  807. •  Ability to /fly in the main lobby!
  808. •  Ability to spectate in Hunger Games after death
  809. •  Ability to spectate in The Walls after death
  810. •  Ability to /surface in The Walls
  811. •  Ability to /shout 3 times in The Walls
  812. •  Your furnaces and chests are protected in The Walls
  813. •  Get 6 hours limit on adventures instead of 4 hours as the party leader
  814. •  Blitz Survival Game Kit: Astronaut
  815. •  Blitz Survival Game Kit: Rogue
  816. •  Blitz Survival Game Kit: Blaze
  817. •  Blitz Survival Game Kit: Creeper Tamer
  818. •  Blitz Survival Game Kit: Troll
  819. •  Blitz Survival Game Kit: Wolf Tamer
  820. •  Ability to join FULL "Main Lobby" server!
  821. •  Ability to join VIP and FULL "Adventure Lobby" servers!
  822. •  Ability to join VIP and FULL "The Walls" servers!
  823. •  Ability to join VIP and FULL "Blitz Survival Games" servers!
  824. •  Ability to join VIP and FULL "TNT Games" servers!
  825. •  Ability to join VIP and FULL "Quakecraft" servers!
  826. •  Ability to join VIP and FULL "Paintball Warfare" servers!
  827. •  Ability to join VIP and FULL "VampireZ" servers!
  828. •  Priority in tournaments and events
  829. •  Help us keep the server alive :)
  830.  
  831. This is a lifetime pass, no monthly fee!
  832. What are you waiting for ? :D
  833. [2:55:04 PM] dillyg10: The only "game breaking" benefit they get, is a kit.
  834. [2:55:07 PM] dillyg10: *few kits
  835. [2:55:46 PM] Erik Broes: yup
  836. [2:55:48 PM] dillyg10: coins that others can earn?
  837. [2:55:50 PM] dillyg10: oh the VIP+, they get some coins to buy kits in a game...
  838. [2:55:54 PM] Erik Broes: so that looks quite ok
  839. [2:56:08 PM] Matthew (stick): Grumm, shut up
  840. [2:56:12 PM] Erik Broes: so, now give one of your servers stores and lets take a look :)
  841. [2:56:25 PM] Matthew (stick): people can sell and unbalance whatever the fuck they want to pay for their insane server bills, ddos protection, and advertising costs
  842. [2:56:40 PM] Erik Broes: Insane server bills? lol :P
  843. [2:57:00 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I run a simple server and it costs over $200/month
  844. [2:57:05 PM] Erik Broes: without the money stuff going around there is no need for ddos protection or advertisement
  845. [2:57:10 PM] Matthew (stick): ya, at the begining, DDOS protection and 1 server was about $1200 per month
  846. [2:57:11 PM] Erik Broes: and servers are not that expensive :)
  847. [2:57:12 PM] dillyg10: Actually, the key there is advertising costs.
  848. [2:57:16 PM] Erik Broes: you can get a beast of a machine for <150/mth
  849. [2:57:18 PM] dillyg10: SkyDoesMinecraft charges $15k for 1 video.
  850. [2:57:23 PM] Matthew (stick): now its down to about $500 with decent specs
  851. [2:57:29 PM] Erik Broes: which is trivial to get from donations
  852. [2:57:34 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: dillyg10
  853. [2:57:40 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: he does them free if he likes the server lol
  854. [2:57:46 PM] dillyg10: Try 10-20.
  855. [2:57:48 PM] dillyg10: Yes you can get one beast machience.
  856. [2:57:49 PM] Matthew (stick): Mojang is fucking trivial
  857. [2:57:50 PM] Erik Broes: you just need one
  858. [2:57:52 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Not making profit, but making money to pay for a server
  859. [2:57:57 PM] dillyg10: Add ddos protection on all of that?
  860. [2:58:00 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik, are donations allowed?
  861. [2:58:00 PM | Edited 2:57:51 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: I pay over $1,000/m on server bills alone
  862. [2:58:04 PM] Erik Broes: you dont need ddos protection if people wouldn't have turned it into the moneygame it has become
  863. [2:58:06 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: of which to me is not money I have laying around
  864. [2:58:09 PM] dillyg10: On 11/20/13, at 2:57 PM, Erik Broes wrote:
  865. > you just need one
  866.  
  867. Oh really? To run 7-10 game types + 15-20 lobbies + a proxy.
  868. [2:58:13 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: WoodyCraft or something like that got a speech at minecon
  869. [2:58:15 PM] dillyg10: You would need one machience.
  870. [2:58:16 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: and they make a lot of profit
  871. [2:58:27 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: MCPVP cards were given out
  872. [2:58:30 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: they make a lot of profit
  873. [2:58:43 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: It seems Mojang are just using us for stuff here :/
  874. [2:58:43 PM] Erik Broes: for a server that can fund itself? just a single machine
  875. [2:59:01 PM] Erik Broes: i've done it, its bloody trivial
  876. [2:59:05 PM] dillyg10: On 11/20/13, at 2:57 PM, Erik Broes wrote:
  877. > you dont need ddos protection if people wouldn't have turned it into the moneygame it has become
  878.  
  879. No, actually most ddos attacks are just from pissed off players, or servers that are jeleaus *cough* minecade *cough*
  880. [2:59:13 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: I don't have just a single machine
  881. [2:59:15 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: I have 5
  882. [2:59:23 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I realise mojang are a brilliant company
  883. [2:59:27 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: One of the best I've ever seen
  884. [2:59:38 PM] Matthew (stick): Grumm you are so out of fucking touch .....
  885. [2:59:43 PM] Matthew (stick): so out of fucking touch
  886. [2:59:54 PM] Erik Broes: why would you have more than 1 if you cannot fund them from donations? :D
  887. [2:59:58 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Matthew
  888. [3:00:04 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Please be kind :P
  889. [3:00:04 PM] Matthew (stick): You cannt run a non-ddos protected server in minecraft and not shot ur brains out
  890. [3:00:21 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: You might disagree with something he says, but please dont disrespect people :P
  891. [3:00:28 PM] dillyg10: You want to stop us from paying for ddos attacks? Take down minecade lol.
  892. [3:00:28 PM] Erik Broes: you can
  893. [3:00:40 PM] Erik Broes: until people fucked up the whole server-scene and made it money-making machines
  894. [3:00:50 PM] Erik Broes: you fucked it up yourself :)
  895. [3:00:57 PM] dillyg10: On 11/20/13, at 2:59 PM, Erik Broes wrote:
  896. > why would you have more than 1 if you cannot fund them from donations? :D
  897.  
  898. So that my players aren't lagging to hell
  899. [3:01:17 PM] Matthew (stick): [3:00 PM] Erik Broes:
  900.  
  901. <<< until people fucked up the whole server-scene and made it money-making machinesour opinion is that:
  902.  
  903. Mojang fucked up the server scene by not offering an API
  904. [3:01:21 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Minecon is barely anything without addons/servers having booths/speeches. Servers/Addons are nothing without profit.
  905. [3:01:46 PM] Erik Broes: Matthew: what did we change that messed up the serverscene?
  906. [3:01:55 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik, you said Mojang cares about the players and not the money. But from what you're saying, you'd rather have slow servers for players?
  907. [3:01:56 PM] Erik Broes: if we didn't change anything we couldnt have had any influence on it right?
  908. [3:02:11 PM] Matthew (stick): you didnt follow through on your promises
  909. [3:02:19 PM] Erik Broes: why would they be slow?
  910. [3:02:19 PM] Matthew (stick): of an API
  911. [3:02:21 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: I would be pretty chill if Erik, you could understand servers need donations to survive and grow
  912. [3:02:27 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: No anti-ddos/another machine
  913. [3:02:29 PM] Matthew (stick): its been neglected for 3.5 years
  914. [3:02:37 PM] Erik Broes: I know they need that, again, I have run my own server
  915. [3:02:40 PM] Matthew (stick): when you asked for more staff (8 months ago or whenever that was) JEB told you "NO"
  916. [3:02:54 PM | Edited 3:02:56 PM] Erik Broes: we didn't need another machine, we didn't need ddos protection
  917. [3:02:56 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: You also said that once a player has paid the fee to purchase the game, they shouldn't have to pay again (to a server). You said thats one of the reasons to this profit thing.
  918. [3:02:59 PM] Erik Broes: we didn't do it for the money either
  919. [3:03:04 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: MinecraftRealms will cost players.
  920. [3:03:04 PM] dillyg10: Erik, you honestly want to find the source to this "greediness" look at Minecade
  921. [3:03:04 PM] Matthew (stick): Jeb said NO, API IS NOT OUR FUCKING PRIORITY WE HATE SERVERS, SERVER OWNERS, and PEOPLE SELLING SHIT ON THEIR WEBSITES
  922. [3:03:05 PM] dillyg10: they were some of the first that began ddosing
  923. [3:03:07 PM] Matthew (stick): we hate it
  924. [3:03:07 PM] Matthew (stick): :P
  925. [3:03:08 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: So its pretty much the same thing.
  926. [3:03:10 PM] dillyg10: they were the first that profited from donations.
  927. [3:03:23 PM] Matthew (stick): [3:02 PM] Erik Broes:
  928.  
  929. <<< we didn't do it for the money eitherSays a 300+ million dollar company
  930. [3:03:41 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Server owners: cant earn money to keep players from paying more than the fee
  931. Mojang: Lets host minecraftrealms servers for a price
  932. [3:03:46 PM] dillyg10: And you know what.
  933. [3:03:51 PM] dillyg10: Yes I take a profit.
  934. [3:03:56 PM] dillyg10: Do you know why?
  935. [3:04:00 PM] dillyg10: Because I work 8 hours a day on my server.
  936. [3:04:03 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Matthew lol
  937. [3:04:09 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: once you have 300m+, you dont need more :P
  938. [3:04:13 PM] Erik Broes: Matt: do we ask money for updates? do we sell capes? .. its super easy to drain more money from people
  939. [3:04:18 PM] dillyg10: Hell, more than 8 hours
  940. [3:04:23 PM] dillyg10: and that's around the clocl
  941. [3:04:25 PM] dillyg10: *clock
  942. [3:04:27 PM] dillyg10: with school
  943. [3:04:30 PM] dillyg10: and a social life.
  944. [3:04:38 PM] dillyg10: It's not easy pal, what if Mojang stopped paying you for your work?
  945. [3:04:55 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Barely anyone would buy the game if it did cost for updates.
  946. [3:04:55 PM] dillyg10: I don't think you'd be singing the same tune.
  947. [3:05:10 PM] Erik Broes: So? I've worked far more and harder than most of you
  948. [3:05:11 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Capes, you're not forcing anybody. People already sell capes, I'm not forced into that.
  949. [3:05:27 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Yes
  950. [3:05:32 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: and you've earned LOTS of money in return.
  951. [3:05:33 PM] Erik Broes: dilly: i'd move back to the netherlands and get my old job back :)
  952. [3:05:38 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: We work quite hard to run a server
  953. [3:05:44 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: and you're saying we cant gain from that either?
  954. [3:05:56 PM] Erik Broes: lots of money? lol
  955. [3:06:06 PM] Erik Broes: you think mojang pays people insanely much? O.o
  956. [3:06:19 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Not insanely much
  957. [3:06:20 PM] Erik Broes: granted, its not bad pay, but i can easily get double elsewhere
  958. [3:06:22 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: But quite a bit.
  959. [3:06:35 PM] dillyg10: On 11/20/13, at 3:05 PM, Erik Broes wrote:
  960. > So? I've worked far more and harder than most of you
  961.  
  962. You take that back.
  963. [3:06:40 PM] dillyg10: You have NO idea how hard I work.
  964. [3:07:05 PM] Erik Broes: to me it matches industry standards
  965. [3:07:19 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: But us server owners cant even make a dollar off our servers :/
  966. [3:07:21 PM] Erik Broes: which is kinda expected, when you work in that industry :)
  967. [3:07:27 PM] Matthew (stick): just admit mojang has very little respect for server owners and servers who sell donations to stay online
  968. [3:07:37 PM] Matthew (stick): grumm, just admit mojang dropped the ball on the api
  969. [3:07:40 PM] Erik Broes: dilly: no, you have no idea how hard I work
  970. [3:07:48 PM] Matthew (stick): just admit the whole purpose of minecraftrealms is to introduce an API
  971. [3:07:49 PM] Erik Broes: and have worked
  972. [3:08:05 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I'd enjoy working for mojang.
  973. [3:08:05 PM] dillyg10: Am I saying I work MORE than you?
  974. [3:08:07 PM] dillyg10: Nope.
  975. [3:08:10 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Changing a game for 11m+ players
  976. [3:08:11 PM] dillyg10: But I still work goddamn hard.
  977. [3:08:12 PM] Matthew (stick): I can't wait to see how mojang uses the API to try and screw over servers and force us into some mojang hosted abomination
  978. [3:08:13 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Getting paid for it
  979. [3:08:22 PM] dillyg10: And all of us do.
  980. [3:08:32 PM] dillyg10: We work so goddamn hard for our servers.
  981. [3:08:34 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I make plugins for FREE at the moment, since I cant gain from my server. Thats difficult for me.
  982. [3:08:34 PM] Erik Broes: since hMod i've poored 8hrs/day on average into my minecraft related hobbies (hosting server) and work (hmod, bukkit, minecraft)
  983. [3:08:42 PM] Erik Broes: and that was besides my fulltime job.
  984. [3:08:49 PM] Erik Broes: and i'm talking 7 days/wk
  985. [3:08:54 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: No doubt mojang will make replicas of hive and hypixel and stuff
  986. [3:08:55 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: On realms
  987. [3:09:11 PM | Edited 3:09:15 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Then say how easy it is to run with their 3 million dollars
  988. [3:09:11 PM] Matthew (stick): Mojang "you must host servers with minecraftrealms to enable API mod downloading from our API mod servers"
  989.  
  990. "This server is not hosted with mojang's minecraftrealms"
  991. [3:09:29 PM] Matthew (stick): 300 hundred million dollars
  992. [3:09:56 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik, I can understand how you dont want players to pay to servers.
  993. [3:10:03 PM] dillyg10: Wait wait wait.
  994. [3:10:08 PM] dillyg10: For the Mod API
  995. [3:10:12 PM] Erik Broes: Karl: and I understnad how you want to make a living
  996. [3:10:14 PM] dillyg10: you need to host it
  997. [3:10:15 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: But its what keeps the minecraft community going
  998. [3:10:17 PM] dillyg10: on realms?
  999. [3:10:18 PM] Erik Broes: what are you talking about this time Matthew?
  1000. [3:10:33 PM] dillyg10: I don't think hat's true.
  1001. [3:10:37 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I dont want to make a living off a server lol
  1002. [3:10:38 PM] Erik Broes: you can run private servers with plugins when the api is there
  1003. [3:10:49 PM] Erik Broes: and we will allow a very limited subset to be used on realms
  1004. [3:10:58 PM] dillyg10: But Erik, the point is, until you step in my shoes, and do what I do, you can't tell me not to make money.
  1005. [3:10:58 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I just want to atleast gain some.
  1006. [3:11:07 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: (well, I do, but im not aiming for it :P)
  1007. [3:11:08 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I dont want to earn like $50k lol
  1008. [3:11:42 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: see this is how the minecraft world gets tarnished..
  1009. [3:12:00 PM] dillyg10: The thing is, I didn't wake up one morning and say "how can I make $50k… hmmm MINECRAFT SERVER!"
  1010. [3:12:08 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik must be programming a lot though
  1011. [3:12:11 PM] dillyg10: It just happened.
  1012. [3:12:20 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: He says == in conversations
  1013. [3:12:21 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: lol
  1014. [3:12:33 PM] Erik Broes: dillyg10: i'm working this evening, like almost every evening
  1015. [3:12:44 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: But either way erik
  1016. [3:12:57 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Imagine you owned a server, and had no income from anywhere else.
  1017. [3:13:09 PM] Erik Broes: Karl: its not jsut coding
  1018. [3:13:17 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: You'd enjoy it if you had money easily. But a server cant start from nowhere without donations otherwise
  1019. [3:13:22 PM] dillyg10: Erik, I'm going to be working until around 4am tonight.
  1020. [3:13:26 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: And a booth at minecon costs like $5k
  1021. [3:13:32 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: how do you expect a server to get that, huh?
  1022. [3:13:34 PM] Erik Broes: its talking with the community, planning integrations with Forge for example, sometimes actually playing on majorly modded servers as 'research'
  1023. [3:13:37 PM] dillyg10: And that's on top of spending 8 hours at school today ;).
  1024. [3:14:15 PM] dillyg10: I'm not the only server owner that is going to be doing that this evening ;)
  1025. [3:14:41 PM] Eric | Vyzon: Karl
  1026. [3:14:54 PM] Eric | Vyzon: Servers easily make $5k lol
  1027. [3:15:03 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik, if everybody follows the Terms of Service about profiting, there will be no booths at minecon.
  1028. [3:16:13 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Yes
  1029. [3:16:17 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Against minecrafts terms of service.
  1030. [3:16:56 PM] Jason Bratt: minecraft would be dead within 3 months
  1031. [3:16:59 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Imagine Erik
  1032. [3:17:21 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: You spend years working on minecraft or something to be told it has to be shut down/not earn you profit
  1033. [3:17:34 PM] Jason Bratt: Look at youtube, they pay the big channels the have quality content. It's likewise in minecraft for the quality servers.
  1034. [3:17:40 PM] Jason Bratt: Youtube exploded after they did that
  1035. [3:17:43 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Thats whats going to be happening soon.
  1036. [3:17:44 PM] dillyg10: Minecraft is about to die anyways if mojang doesn't finish their API :).
  1037. [3:17:54 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: But to 2000+ people
  1038. [3:18:01 PM] Jason Bratt: Now they have 1/7 of the world logging on once a month
  1039. [3:18:39 PM] Erik Broes: On 11/20/13, at 9:17 PM, Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming wrote:
  1040. > You spend years working on minecraft or something to be told it has to be shut down/not earn you profit
  1041.  
  1042. Now you make it sound like we changed our terms/branding guidelines
  1043. [3:18:46 PM] Jason Bratt: Sure, there is bad servers out there that are greedy with their servers and try to get as much money as they can from their users
  1044. [3:18:50 PM] Jason Bratt: but that is only a slight few
  1045. [3:19:17 PM | Edited 3:19:21 PM] Erik Broes: i think 3-4 booths wouldnt have been at Minecon yes
  1046. [3:19:20 PM] Jason Bratt: Don't let a few servers morph your opinion on it
  1047. [3:20:23 PM | Edited 3:20:25 PM] Erik Broes: They change the overall experience and balance
  1048. [3:20:24 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik, I've never once donated to a server
  1049. [3:20:28 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Since I currently have no money
  1050. [3:20:36 PM] Jason Bratt: No server booths would be at minecon
  1051. [3:20:40 PM] Jason Bratt: cause they don't have the money to even go
  1052. [3:20:40 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: And I've never wanted to donate to one
  1053. [3:20:56 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I might've liked to, but none have forced me to
  1054. [3:20:59 PM] dillyg10: Erik
  1055. [3:21:03 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: with OP items/perks
  1056. [3:21:05 PM] dillyg10: How many servers have you played on.
  1057. [3:21:13 PM] dillyg10: I've played on them all.
  1058. [3:21:18 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: ^
  1059. [3:21:28 PM] dillyg10: None of them are unbalanced at all.
  1060. [3:21:41 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: it costs like $10k for a medium-sized booth
  1061. [3:21:47 PM] dillyg10: Even Minecade has a pretty good balance.
  1062. [3:21:50 PM] Erik Broes: Another fun part is, since money is being made people are getting nasty to eachother, sueing for public ideas, ddossing eachother, mass advertisement to be 'more seen than the other'
  1063. [3:21:53 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Where do you expect us to get the money from, Erik?
  1064. [3:22:02 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Or are mojang just using us to get players and a community for them?
  1065. [3:22:04 PM] Jason Bratt: Mojang can pay the way!
  1066. [3:22:05 PM] dillyg10: (with their SuperCraftBros at least ;)).
  1067. [3:22:15 PM] Erik Broes: and meanhwhile everyone suddenly feels entitled to demand things from Mojang :D
  1068. [3:22:56 PM] dillyg10: On 11/20/13, at 3:21 PM, Erik Broes wrote:
  1069. > Another fun part is, since money is being made people are getting nasty to eachother, sueing for public ideas, ddossing eachother, mass advertisement to be 'more seen than the other'
  1070.  
  1071. All minecade
  1072. [3:22:57 PM] Jason Bratt: Eh minecade is a horrible example
  1073. [3:23:04 PM] dillyg10: You have just described minecade.
  1074. [3:23:07 PM] dillyg10: Gj.
  1075. [3:23:10 PM] Jason Bratt: Given their history, they're the worst server out there xD
  1076. [3:23:15 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: But whats that to do with Mojang?
  1077. [3:23:22 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Just put in the terms its nothing to do with you.
  1078. [3:23:25 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: And bam. solved.
  1079. [3:23:54 PM] dillyg10: On 11/20/13, at 3:23 PM, Jason Bratt wrote:
  1080. > Given their history, they're the worst server out there xD
  1081.  
  1082. Meh their games aren't terribly unbalanced, they are just nasty
  1083. [3:24:16 PM] Erik Broes: Where do you expect us to get the money from, Erik? <-- why would you need a booth at minecon? you are a bloody server, not a company
  1084. [3:24:59 PM] Erik Broes: also minecon booths are by MILES cheaper than any other floorspace on any other convention
  1085. [3:25:25 PM] Jason Bratt: Because it's freaking minecon
  1086. [3:25:31 PM] Jason Bratt: Players expect to see servers there
  1087. [3:25:33 PM] dillyg10: On 11/20/13, at 3:24 PM, Erik Broes wrote:
  1088. > Where do you expect us to get the money from, Erik? <-- why would you need a booth at minecon? you are a bloody server, not a company
  1089.  
  1090. Because we want to show we are apart of the community?
  1091. [3:25:35 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik, you wanted to care about players? Normal players are fine. Server owners should be allowed to earn profit.
  1092. [3:25:37 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Then everybody is happy
  1093. [3:25:48 PM] Jason Bratt: That's what minecraft is
  1094. [3:26:06 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: The bad people/servers; They wont even care about the TOS
  1095. [3:26:06 PM] Erik Broes: Karl: not according to our terms/brand docs
  1096. [3:26:40 PM] Jason Bratt: Minecraft servers don't goto minecon because of GREED, they pay their own way out of their pocket to see their players and get to know the community face to face
  1097. [3:27:11 PM] Erik Broes: that makes everyone with a 'store' or a 'buy' button a 'bad person' or 'bad server', which is almost everyone here
  1098. [3:27:18 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: And where does a company get money from for Minecon? They're still profiting off the game
  1099. [3:27:25 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Which im pretty sure, the terms disallowed.
  1100. [3:28:05 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik, I said the bad ones will ignore
  1101. [3:28:08 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: not the other way round
  1102. [3:28:18 PM] Erik Broes: nope, most sell merch that is allowed and acked by Mojang
  1103. [3:28:22 PM] Erik Broes: or just pay for it themselves
  1104. [3:28:39 PM] dillyg10: Erik, you should be exstatic.
  1105. [3:28:44 PM] Erik Broes: like the Lego Booth, they just paid, Google one, Microsoft one, all just paid themselves
  1106. [3:28:47 PM] dillyg10: that you made a game
  1107. [3:28:50 PM] dillyg10: that people can profit off of
  1108. [3:28:50 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Well Erik
  1109. [3:28:58 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Get rid of servers profiting
  1110. [3:29:02 PM] dillyg10: I know I'm going to be using my money to get a college degree
  1111. [3:29:08 PM] dillyg10: Others are going to use it to support themselves
  1112. [3:29:09 PM] dillyg10: or start a small buisness
  1113. [3:29:09 PM] dillyg10: or a family
  1114. [3:29:13 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: But server owners wont ever come back again
  1115. [3:29:14 PM] Jason Bratt: If you want your game to crash and burn, go ahead and disallow it, but by doing that it will be the end of minecraft.
  1116. [3:29:14 PM] Erik Broes: Karl: anyone making money is ignoring the terms/brand-docs
  1117. [3:29:18 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: They'll just leave it and the community will fall apart
  1118. [3:29:27 PM | Edited 3:29:35 PM] Jason Bratt: No one will want to make servers anymore, there's no ncentive
  1119. [3:29:33 PM] Erik Broes: so by your reasoning that makes my conclusion valid
  1120. [3:29:47 PM] Jason Bratt: People don't just sit down and spending countless hours developing and building a server for nothing
  1121. [3:29:54 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I would have quit minecraft 3 months after I bought the game if I didnt play servers
  1122. [3:30:07 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Singleplayer is boring to me
  1123. [3:30:13 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Unless Im recording a video or doing a challenge
  1124. [3:30:52 PM] Jason Bratt: Minecraft is boring after a few days
  1125. [3:30:57 PM] Jason Bratt: vanilla that is
  1126. [3:31:04 PM] Jason Bratt: Servers make it fun :D
  1127. [3:31:05 PM] Erik Broes: Jason: yes we do
  1128. [3:31:11 PM] Erik Broes: that is how i ended up working for mojang :)
  1129. [3:31:42 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: If Mojang take over servers with MinecraftRealms, you've used us.
  1130. [3:32:01 PM] Erik Broes: how? they have a limit of 10 players
  1131. [3:32:09 PM] Erik Broes: we will never cater large servers
  1132. [3:32:18 PM] Jason Bratt: Erik, what was your server?
  1133. [3:32:22 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: You should re-think your terms of service based on profiting.
  1134. [3:32:24 PM] Jason Bratt: And how many players did it have?
  1135. [3:32:31 PM] Jason Bratt: And how much of it do you do
  1136. [3:32:39 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: so you make money from minecraft in theory :P
  1137. [3:32:45 PM] dillyg10: You know Erik, maybe you don't understand something. Minecraft, vanilla mine craft, is NOT a full game. If you were to sell that and nothing else, you would be one broke ass Mojang. Minecraft itself is just an idea. It's a damn good idea, that's why we're here. Then, it is our job to take that idea, and make a fully structured playable fun game out of it.
  1138. [3:32:49 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Half of Minecon was server booths/speeches
  1139. [3:32:54 PM] Erik Broes: Max: how?
  1140. [3:33:17 PM] dillyg10: In exchange for that.
  1141. [3:33:25 PM] dillyg10: We ask that the money we make, to go back to us.
  1142. [3:33:32 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: mojang pay you to develop :P
  1143. [3:33:33 PM] dillyg10: Most of that money is poured back into the server
  1144. [3:33:37 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Minecraft is basicly a template for Programmers to build onto.
  1145. [3:33:45 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Singleplayer is the basic idea of it.
  1146. [3:33:48 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: and the sales of minecraft pay you ;p
  1147. [3:33:55 PM] Jason Bratt: You really fucking think minecraft would survive on 0-10 player servers?
  1148. [3:34:02 PM] dillyg10: Some we take, for the time we spent working.
  1149. [3:34:18 PM] Jason Bratt: Minecraft would crashhh so hard
  1150. [3:34:31 PM] Erik Broes: Max: i work for a company that happens to make Minecraft, and I happen to work on Minecraft
  1151. [3:34:32 PM] Erik Broes: i dont make my money 'exploiting' minecraft
  1152. [3:34:54 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: How about this. All servers have a strike of some sort on a specific day
  1153. [3:35:01 PM] Erik Broes: Jason: no, so that is why i used it as an argument that realms would 'take away multiplayer from everyone'
  1154. [3:35:09 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Show mojang what happens then.
  1155. [3:35:26 PM] Erik Broes: Max: no, Mojang pays me, and Mojang has income from rev-share from Markus
  1156. [3:35:59 PM] Erik Broes: Karl: what happens when?
  1157. [3:36:02 PM] Jason Bratt: minecraft=dead
  1158. [3:36:07 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: When servers arent up.
  1159. [3:36:13 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: When nobody runs a server.
  1160. [3:36:33 PM] Jason Bratt: There's some lag in this chat..
  1161. [3:36:35 PM] Erik Broes: Nothing happens? people will start new servers?
  1162. [3:36:49 PM] dillyg10: On 11/20/13, at 3:32 PM, dillyg10 wrote:
  1163. > You know Erik, maybe you don't understand something. Minecraft, vanilla mine craft, is NOT a full game. If you were to sell that and nothing else, you would be one broke ass Mojang. Minecraft itself is just an idea. It's a damn good idea, that's why we're here. Then, it is our job to take that idea, and make a fully structured playable fun game out of it.
  1164. [3:37:05 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: People'd start new servers. But all the ones who know how to make a good server are here.
  1165. [3:37:08 PM] Erik Broes: You do realize that we're not depending on any money by having 'running servers'
  1166. [3:37:22 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: And over 90% are against the terms of service
  1167. [3:37:25 PM] Erik Broes: people do not buy the game exclusively for 'servers that people run'
  1168. [3:37:34 PM] Jason Bratt: [3:36 PM] Erik Broes:
  1169.  
  1170. <<< Nothing happens? people will start new servers?Do you know how hard it is to start a server, and to get people on it?
  1171. [3:37:38 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I would.
  1172. [3:37:39 PM] Erik Broes: and beyond the initial purchase we're not getting any money from anyone playing on them
  1173. [3:37:44 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: If I knew no servers existed, I wouldnt buy it.
  1174. [3:38:14 PM] Erik Broes: dilly: i agree, which is why we're working on the API, we want Mojang to exist for another lots of years, Minecraft too
  1175. [3:38:21 PM] Erik Broes: Karl: or start your own server?
  1176. [3:38:32 PM] dillyg10: Actually Erik
  1177. [3:38:33 PM] Erik Broes: you do realize that is how it all started right?
  1178. [3:38:41 PM] Erik Broes: people running their own server?
  1179. [3:38:41 PM] Jason Bratt: Erik, those servers woudln't happen w/o INNCENTIVE
  1180. [3:38:44 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: You cant start a good one just by running it
  1181. [3:38:49 PM] Erik Broes: on a spare machine, on their home internet?
  1182. [3:39:03 PM] dillyg10: having servers actually helps you all get sales ;)
  1183. [3:39:05 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Yeah erik of course
  1184. [3:39:15 PM] dillyg10: it...
  1185. [3:39:16 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Because 10mbps is good enough for thousands of players, isnt it
  1186. [3:39:18 PM] dillyg10: drives youtube
  1187. [3:39:21 PM] dillyg10: which drives players
  1188. [3:39:23 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I dont even have 10mbps.
  1189. [3:39:23 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I have 2.
  1190. [3:39:32 PM] Erik Broes: why would servers need 1000 players?
  1191. [3:39:37 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I cant hold one single player on my server.
  1192. [3:39:47 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: And it'd open up your home network to ddoses.
  1193. [3:40:11 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: You simply cannot have a good server without income.
  1194. [3:40:18 PM] Erik Broes: I can easily hold 100 people on my line if i wanted to
  1195. [3:40:25 PM] Jason Bratt: [3:38 PM] Erik Broes:
  1196.  
  1197. <<< on a spare machine, on their home internet?I've been playing MC since classic. And when it was run this way it was a nightmere, servers would crash/lag all the time
  1198. [3:40:37 PM] Erik Broes: Karl: why would anyone ddos, there are no big servers, so no money is being made
  1199. [3:40:39 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Minecraft is made up of mostly 8-14 year olds
  1200. [3:40:39 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Yes Erik
  1201. [3:40:45 PM] dillyg10: On 11/20/13, at 3:39 PM, Erik Broes wrote:
  1202. > why would servers need 1000 players?
  1203.  
  1204. WOW
  1205. [3:40:47 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Not everybodys internet is like yours, is it?
  1206. [3:40:50 PM] Erik Broes: Karl: so you do not work?
  1207. [3:40:51 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: And would you like to open up your home network to ddoses?
  1208. [3:40:56 PM] dillyg10: BECUASE BIG COMMUNITIES ARE FUN?
  1209. [3:40:58 PM] Jason Bratt: [3:39 PM] Erik Broes:
  1210.  
  1211. <<< why would servers need 1000 playersMineZ, dungeonrealms, etc?
  1212. [3:41:16 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: Everyone stop
  1213. [3:41:30 PM] Jason Bratt: FFs thats like saying, why doesn't WoW run on 10 players instead of millions
  1214. [3:41:32 PM] Erik Broes: Karl: once more, until it became a money-game there were no ddoses at all :)
  1215. [3:41:43 PM] Erik Broes: sure, you have some lame cunts that think its 'cool' to do, but that has nothing to do with Minecraft
  1216. [3:41:44 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik, I am 14 years old. And even if I did, I wouldnt pay a lot of my own money to keep a server for a game up.
  1217. [3:41:45 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: We aren't getting anywhere here, and we will go in circles
  1218. [3:41:55 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Thats why players can donate small amounts each to pay for it.
  1219. [3:41:57 PM] Erik Broes: dillyg10: are they?
  1220. [3:41:57 PM] Max // VoidCraft Servers: nor will anything good come from this conversation
  1221. [3:42:24 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: People ddos everywhere now
  1222. [3:42:25 PM] Erik Broes: Karl: and that is the difference with people running a server now and before (2yrs ago)
  1223. [3:42:30 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Its to do with how technology has advanced
  1224. [3:42:32 PM] dillyg10: On 11/20/13, at 3:41 PM, Erik Broes wrote:
  1225. > dillyg10: are they?
  1226.  
  1227. YES
  1228. [3:42:35 PM] dillyg10: THEY FUCKING ARE
  1229. [3:42:40 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: In 2010 kids didnt know how to ddos
  1230. [3:42:50 PM] Jason Bratt: Erik is to stubburn and blind to see the truth
  1231. [3:42:50 PM] dillyg10: I've been apart of MANY large communities
  1232. [3:42:51 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Now servers are flooded with 12 year old kids ddosing it
  1233. [3:42:53 PM] dillyg10: and they are fun as hell
  1234. [3:42:56 PM] Erik Broes: Jason: you do know that with WoW having more than 250 people in a single area breaks their servers? :)
  1235. [3:43:07 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Its to do with how technology has changed, not the game.
  1236. [3:43:10 PM] Erik Broes: so the 'lots of people online'-feeling you have, is actually a well constructed fake
  1237. [3:43:34 PM] Jason Bratt: He want's this perfect game eutopia full of butterflies and happy friendly 12 year olds frockling in a field
  1238. [3:43:37 PM] Erik Broes: Jason: I'm not? I'm providing sane arguments against your claims
  1239. [3:43:40 PM] Erik Broes: feel free to do the same :)
  1240. [3:44:07 PM] Erik Broes: dillyg10: playing on a 1000 people mini-game-server doesn't make you part of a community
  1241. [3:44:09 PM] Jason Bratt: [3:42 PM] Erik Broes:
  1242.  
  1243. <<< Jason: you do know that with WoW having more than 250 people in a single area breaks their servers? :)You know that,  250 don't all go in one chunk at once
  1244. [3:44:19 PM] Erik Broes: playing on a 80 people survival server does however :)
  1245. [3:44:28 PM] Jason Bratt: *insane arguements
  1246. [3:44:35 PM] Erik Broes: Jason: where do you get that bullshit from? O.o
  1247. [3:44:41 PM] Jason Bratt: Your game would die in a week w/o servers
  1248. [3:44:47 PM] Erik Broes: I just want Minecraft to have a technically sound long future
  1249. [3:44:52 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Mojang are using server owners to create a community for them.
  1250. [3:45:03 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: And then thanking them by eventually shutting them down.
  1251. [3:45:03 PM | Edited 3:45:19 PM] Dwight / Daegonner: Damnnn, Erik.
  1252. http://puu.sh/5ohAX.jpg
  1253. Nice :O
  1254. [3:45:07 PM] Jason Bratt: Face the reality
  1255. [3:45:27 PM] Erik Broes: Jason: a single wow realm consists of >200 computers
  1256. [3:45:47 PM] Jason Bratt: Minecraft won't have a sound long future if you don't allow people to create good servers
  1257. [3:45:56 PM] Erik Broes: bit less now, because cpu-power ramped up
  1258. [3:46:16 PM] Erik Broes: Jason, there wouldn't be a week without servers, because anyone can start one
  1259. [3:46:31 PM] Erik Broes: if all the major money making machines stop, lots of small private ones will simply pop up, like it was 2yrs ago
  1260. [3:46:40 PM] dillyg10: On 11/20/13, at 3:44 PM, Erik Broes wrote:
  1261. > I just want Minecraft to have a technically sound long future
  1262.  
  1263. IF YOU KEEP DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING YOU WILL DIE IN A FEW YEARS~
  1264. [3:46:41 PM] Erik Broes: servers with *REAL* communities
  1265. [3:46:43 PM] Jason Bratt: WoW wouldn't work w/o their massive community though
  1266. [3:46:56 PM] dillyg10: IF YOU DON'T FINISH THE MOD API
  1267. [3:46:57 PM] dillyg10: YOU WILL DIE
  1268. [3:47:07 PM] dillyg10: MINECRAFT WILL STOP EXISTING
  1269. [3:47:09 PM] dillyg10: GET THAT IDEA IN YOUR THICK HEAD.
  1270. [3:47:15 PM] dillyg10: *ends anyer*
  1271. [3:47:17 PM] dillyg10: *anger
  1272. [3:47:22 PM] Erik Broes: dillyg10: that is what i mean with a technically sound future, fixing up the codebase so we will use the plugin api ourselves to make the game
  1273. [3:47:38 PM] Erik Broes: that is the *only* reason i am working on minecraft right now, because i want to see that happen
  1274. [3:47:52 PM] Jason Bratt: [3:46 PM] Erik Broes:
  1275.  
  1276. <<< if all the major money making machines stop, lots of small private ones will simply pop up, like it was 2yrs agoI used to run one of those "small private ones", for well over a year and half.
  1277. [3:48:00 PM] Erik Broes: when we can make the game ourselves with it, it should be good enough to release
  1278. [3:48:02 PM] Jason Bratt: They weren't as fun as you think
  1279. [3:48:07 PM] Jason Bratt: You can't do things you can do now
  1280. [3:48:14 PM] dillyg10: Then MAKE IT~
  1281. [3:48:18 PM] dillyg10: Jesus christ!
  1282. [3:48:19 PM] Erik Broes: and from there we keep on improving it forever and ever and ever
  1283. [3:48:21 PM] Jason Bratt: Plus, that was when minecraft had 1/8 the players
  1284. [3:48:24 PM] Erik Broes: well until the money runs out
  1285. [3:48:28 PM] dillyg10: It's taken 2 years
  1286. [3:48:32 PM] dillyg10: and you have gotten nothing done.
  1287. [3:48:35 PM] Erik Broes: and sofar every year we're in business we can do another 10 without getting money
  1288. [3:48:40 PM] dillyg10: *very little done
  1289. [3:48:53 PM] Erik Broes: Jason: what are you talking about? 'things you can do now'?
  1290. [3:49:14 PM] Erik Broes: we have nothing done? lol
  1291. [3:49:16 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik
  1292. [3:49:19 PM] Erik Broes: have you even looked at the code? :)
  1293. [3:49:24 PM] Erik Broes: also we've been *truly* working on it since I've moved to sweden
  1294. [3:49:25 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Why did WoodyCraft (or whatever its called) get a speech at mojang
  1295. [3:49:27 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Dispite earning profit
  1296. [3:49:28 PM] Erik Broes: so only since the start of this year
  1297. [3:49:30 PM] [MTB] RealNickonator™ || MMCD: Isnt the snapshot just adding the twitch intergration?
  1298. [3:49:30 PM] Jason Bratt: MineZ for example.
  1299. [3:49:30 PM] dillyg10: Erik, we don't need any new features
  1300. [3:49:31 PM] dillyg10: we don't
  1301. [3:49:34 PM] dillyg10: we need a stable mod api
  1302. [3:49:36 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Same with MCPVP and the cards
  1303. [3:49:43 PM] Erik Broes: and then 3-4 months of launcher dropped in
  1304. [3:49:48 PM | Edited 3:50:04 PM] dillyg10: and then we will be done bitching, and we can have a successful next few years.
  1305. [3:49:56 PM] Jason Bratt: I think you have a bad case of nostalgia...
  1306. [3:50:09 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: You're just going to allow it so it seems ok
  1307. [3:50:14 PM] Jason Bratt: Don't compare minecraft to the past, because sooo much has changed in the game and player count
  1308. [3:50:19 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: yet on the backend of stuff, you're going against us
  1309. [3:50:20 PM] dillyg10: You could get the mod API done right now, and not have to do one more line of code.
  1310. [3:50:47 PM] Jason Bratt: Why does Mojang support youtubers? They make money off your game.
  1311. [3:50:49 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Infront of players its: "Look at this great server.."
  1312. To owners: "You need to stop making profit from your servers"
  1313. [3:50:52 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: You're using us.
  1314. [3:50:57 PM] dillyg10: I'm not saying get it done next week
  1315. [3:51:12 PM] dillyg10: I'm sure you could finish it in 4 months
  1316. [3:51:14 PM] Erik Broes: dillyg10: then you do not understand how it works
  1317. [3:51:15 PM] dillyg10: 6 at the most
  1318. [3:51:24 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Minecraft was good until Notch quit
  1319. [3:51:32 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Now its run by people who cant handle it
  1320. [3:51:45 PM] Erik Broes: On 11/20/13, at 9:49 PM, nick.i.alvarez wrote:
  1321. > Isnt the snapshot just adding the twitch intergration?
  1322.  
  1323. And some fixes yes
  1324. [3:52:14 PM] Erik Broes: dillyg10: you really have no idea how long it takes to make a proper api do you? :)
  1325. [3:52:18 PM] Jason Bratt: [3:50 PM] Jason Bratt:
  1326.  
  1327. <<< Why does Mojang support youtubers? They make money off your game.
  1328. [3:52:29 PM] Erik Broes: you know how long it took to make Bukkit usable, took ~1yr with two people
  1329. [3:52:33 PM] Erik Broes: and we need to do significantly more
  1330. [3:52:53 PM] dillyg10: doesn't take more than 6 months.
  1331. [3:52:55 PM] dillyg10: lol
  1332. [3:53:05 PM | Edited 3:53:12 PM] Erik Broes: Karl: lol, so notch would have made an api in minutes right?
  1333. [3:53:10 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: And you have more people.
  1334. [3:53:19 PM] Erik Broes: like he did, when he said he would 3yrs ago?
  1335. [3:53:21 PM] Erik Broes: oh wait :D
  1336. [3:53:22 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: And a lot of money in return of it
  1337. [3:53:29 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Which helps for me if I have to get something done quick
  1338. [3:53:36 PM] dillyg10: You have a team of, Jeb, Dinnerbone, You, and the two new guys
  1339. [3:53:39 PM] dillyg10: that's 5 goddamn people
  1340. [3:53:47 PM] dillyg10: if you don't get in the next 6 months
  1341. [3:53:58 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik, I dont care about an API
  1342. [3:54:00 PM] dillyg10: then you honestly are one of the worst coding teams on earth;
  1343. [3:54:07 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Not the time of it
  1344. [3:54:19 PM] Erik Broes: dillyg10: then what?
  1345. [3:54:24 PM] Erik Broes: we might be doing it right? :)
  1346. [3:54:28 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I dont  care about the 'minecraft api', since bukkit already provides that to me
  1347. [3:55:06 PM] Jason Bratt: [3:50 PM] Jason Bratt:
  1348.  
  1349. <<< Why does Mojang support youtubers? They make money off your game.
  1350. [3:55:26 PM] [MTB] RealNickonator™ || MMCD: All I am interested in is the development of colored light. I noticed someone at Mojang tweeting about it.
  1351. [3:55:26 PM] dillyg10: On 11/20/13, at 3:54 PM, Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming wrote:
  1352. > I dont  care about the 'minecraft api', since bukkit already provides that to me
  1353.  
  1354. Then exit the conversation
  1355. [3:55:29 PM] dillyg10: For a moment.
  1356. [3:55:49 PM] dillyg10: Well actually don't.
  1357. [3:55:51 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik, you guys at mojang are doing a great job on Minecraft. You're turning it into a good game. But stopping servers is going to stop players, in return: no game.
  1358. [3:55:58 PM] dillyg10: I think I've said all I want to about the Mod API
  1359. [3:56:03 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: dillyg10, theres like 5 arguments going on at once :P
  1360. [3:56:08 PM] dillyg10: On 11/20/13, at 3:55 PM, Jason Bratt wrote:
  1361. > On 11/20/13, at 3:50 PM, Jason Bratt wrote:
  1362. > > Why does Mojang support youtubers? They make money off your game.
  1363. >
  1364. [3:56:11 PM] Erik Broes: RealNickonator: wont reach production for a long time
  1365. [3:56:30 PM] Erik Broes: Karl: we're not stopping servers, we're not doing anything different from the last 3 years
  1366. [3:56:57 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Mainly because players arent paying to watch them. They dont want players to pay after buying the game.
  1367. [3:56:58 PM] [MTB] RealNickonator™ || MMCD: I know.
  1368. [3:57:07 PM] Erik Broes: How are we supporting youtubers? they make money of commercials hosted by youtube not by selling people shit
  1369. [3:57:13 PM] [MTB] RealNickonator™ || MMCD: I am just really excited about since I saw a video of it.
  1370. [3:57:15 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Yet they think players buying MinecraftRealms servers is acceptable
  1371. [3:57:43 PM] Erik Broes: they however ARE making commercial use of the Minecraft brand/game. and thus we've explicitly allowed them to do so according to our rules
  1372. [3:58:01 PM] Erik Broes: Karl: we're filling a gaping hole that people have requested us to do
  1373. [3:58:09 PM] Jason Bratt: So you like them because they make money for you. kk
  1374. [3:58:09 PM] Erik Broes: and we're not making a giant profit on it
  1375. [3:58:12 PM] Erik Broes: i think we might barely break even
  1376. [3:58:33 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Its not about the profit though
  1377. [3:58:42 PM | Edited 3:58:43 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: You said its about players paying after already buying the game
  1378. [3:58:59 PM | Edited 3:59:46 PM] dillyg10: On 11/20/13, at 2:44 PM, Erik Broes wrote:
  1379. > i *personally* do not like it, what Mojang as a company things beyond the standing rules, I have no idea
  1380.  
  1381. Look, this conversation has gone in complete circles. This answers our concerns. Grumm is butthurt about it, however Mojang is not.
  1382. [3:59:12 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: If they just wanted a server like that, they can run that fine off a laptop/old pc
  1383. [4:00:07 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: You people at Mojang should have a think about what its like to be a server owner. Put yourselves in our shoes.
  1384. [4:00:16 PM] Erik Broes: dillyg10: no, mojang might be, but i am not speaking for mojang
  1385. [4:00:18 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I'm going back to running my server now
  1386. [4:00:23 PM] Erik Broes: i know i am not the only one
  1387. [4:00:27 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: So im out of the argument, you'll be glad to know Erik.
  1388. [4:00:34 PM] Erik Broes: Jason: no-one is making money for us
  1389. [4:00:36 PM] Jason Bratt: might be? Wtf you don't even know? Lol
  1390. [4:00:40 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Well Erik
  1391. [4:00:50 PM] Erik Broes: people buy the game, yes, there is a ton of advertisement from youtube things, but even before that we had tons and tons of sales
  1392. [4:00:51 PM] [MTB] RealNickonator™ || MMCD: Why do you have to start calling people names? Why can't we just have a peaceful conversation.
  1393. [4:00:52 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Can you somehow get Mojang to interact with server owners and developers
  1394. [4:01:00 PM] Erik Broes: there is a lot of mouth-to-mouth advertisement
  1395. [4:01:04 PM] Jason Bratt: Youtubers/Servers do XD
  1396. [4:01:10 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: so we can put our ideas and thoughts into a game that everyone can enjoy
  1397. [4:01:13 PM] Jason Bratt: Ik countless people who have bought minecraft just to play on my server
  1398. [4:01:16 PM] Erik Broes: Jason: I know, i am just not saying anything about it
  1399. [4:01:23 PM] Erik Broes: as that is not my place to do so
  1400. [4:01:37 PM] Jason Bratt: Youtubers without a doubt get you the most advertisement
  1401. [4:01:54 PM] Erik Broes: Jason: seeing mojang hasn't spend a dime on advertisement, it is fair to assume that servers and youtube play a role in advertising the game
  1402. [4:02:24 PM] Erik Broes: Jason: how much % of the 12 million are those 'countless people' ?
  1403. [4:02:25 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: I think Erik thinks that we shouldnt make profit from servers, but knows that its needed to keep the community going.
  1404. [4:02:28 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Anyway im gone now
  1405. [4:02:33 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: No more arguing from me :P
  1406. [4:02:43 PM] dillyg10: Grumm, you can sit here and preach all you want, at the end of the day we're all businesses, including Mojang. We want to make a profit for our work, yes I'm sure that makes us the devil, but it's the truth. Every one deserves a cut of the players that Mojang brings in, and we will continue to do so, it;s just how the world works. You can make every ideological argument, and great for you that you can manage to work so hard without getting paid, I call you a saint. At the end of the day, this is how it's going to be. Hopefully the rest of you wake up and realize that what we are doing is not bad, and we are trying hard to make minceraft as much fun for everyone as it was for us when we first started playing.
  1407. [4:03:01 PM] Erik Broes: I dont like exploiting money from users, I do realize that servers need money to run
  1408. [4:03:09 PM] Erik Broes: so hey, nice catch21 :)
  1409. [4:03:31 PM] Erik Broes: dilyg10: why not sell drugs?
  1410. [4:03:35 PM] dillyg10: There is nothing Erik or Mojang can do about it.
  1411. [4:03:48 PM] Erik Broes: i mean, people want it, people make money of it, go get your cut, that is how the world works
  1412. [4:03:50 PM] dillyg10: It is a player's choice what they do for their money
  1413. [4:03:56 PM] dillyg10: call me a capitalist that's just how i feel.
  1414. [4:04:22 PM] dillyg10: If you compare mine craft to drugs
  1415. [4:04:29 PM] dillyg10: then we're on a totally different level.
  1416. [4:04:29 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik. I'd never exploit a user into purchasing something from my server.
  1417. [4:04:35 PM] dillyg10: Drugs hurt people
  1418. [4:04:41 PM] dillyg10: Minecraft does not hurt people
  1419. [4:04:47 PM] dillyg10: I wouldn't feel right selling something that hurts you
  1420. [4:04:53 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Once I earned enough a month to keep my server running, I'd make everything a lot cheaper
  1421. [4:04:57 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Like hypixel, pretty much
  1422. [4:04:58 PM] Erik Broes: Karl: so you have no pay to win elements in the things you 'sell' ? :)
  1423. [4:04:59 PM] dillyg10: But hey there are people who don't feel bad, and  good for them.
  1424. [4:05:23 PM] Jason Bratt: Mojang hurts people D;
  1425. [4:05:35 PM] Erik Broes: Karl: and that I like, that is the best 'grey area' you can do
  1426. [4:05:45 PM] Erik Broes: but so many people are not like that
  1427. [4:05:47 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik, that sentence confuses me
  1428. [4:06:08 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Most of us here are :)
  1429. [4:06:10 PM] Erik Broes: dillyg10, people have said minecraft is addicting too, people die from sitting still behind a computer playing games :D
  1430. [4:06:21 PM] dillyg10: It has become apparent to me that Erik is not aware of the Minecraft community
  1431. [4:06:32 PM] dillyg10: Which makes anything I say to him null.
  1432. [4:06:43 PM] dillyg10: Any argument he makes is pure speculation
  1433. [4:06:49 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Minecraft Servers*
  1434. [4:06:57 PM] Erik Broes: Karl: I'm saying that there are nice ways of doing it and bad ways, if you indeed do what you just said, that would be the nice way, if anything would be tolerable under the current rules it should be that, however there are enough people running the show like Minecade, and they fuck it all up for everyone
  1435. [4:06:57 PM] dillyg10: He is imposing a view that we should spend hours of work and not take a profit.
  1436. [4:06:58 PM] Jason Bratt: Minecraft is pay to win, you pay to win the game
  1437. [4:07:05 PM] Erik Broes: dillyg10: in which way?
  1438. [4:07:11 PM] dillyg10: Which is a great view, but not one i'd personally like to subscribe tol
  1439. [4:07:27 PM] dillyg10: Maybe I'm a bad person for thinking that, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter what Erik says.
  1440. [4:07:37 PM] Erik Broes: dillyg10: i am not saying you should do anything
  1441. [4:07:53 PM] Erik Broes: i am saying that is what I did, and thus it is possible, anyone being greedy is just being greedy
  1442. [4:08:05 PM] dillyg10: Maybe he doesn't know, but someone at Mojang does, that if he killed profits Minefraft would die.
  1443. [4:08:09 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Erik, Am I a bad person If I eventually earned profit from my server?
  1444. [4:08:11 PM] dillyg10: And Mojang would loose money.
  1445. [4:08:12 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: Against Mojangs terms
  1446. [4:08:24 PM] Jason Bratt: Erik, when you make minecraft free, I'll stop making money off my server
  1447. [4:08:30 PM] dillyg10: Call me greedy, fine I'm greedy for wanting a return on my work.
  1448. [4:08:38 PM] Erik Broes: I'm saying that people being greedy has changed the look of the whole minecraft community, it has changed how it works (remember no ddos protection needed 2yrs ago?)
  1449. [4:08:44 PM] dillyg10: Doesn't change a thing.
  1450. [4:08:52 PM] Erik Broes: dillyg10: mojang cannot 'loose' money, we barely have expenses
  1451. [4:09:04 PM] dillyg10: if you want to blame the change in minecraft
  1452. [4:09:09 PM] dillyg10: go to felipe
  1453. [4:09:11 PM] dillyg10: and talk to him
  1454. [4:09:16 PM] Jason Bratt: Erik, minecraft wasn't popular 2 years ago
  1455. [4:09:17 PM] Erik Broes: Jason: for the value the game gives, 20EUR is next to free
  1456. [4:09:18 PM] dillyg10: He has single handedly ruined minecraft.
  1457. [4:09:42 PM] Erik Broes: i did, i told him to fuck off with his fucking sueing
  1458. [4:09:44 PM] Erik Broes: and he did
  1459. [4:09:49 PM] Erik Broes: and that was the reason i am even in this chat
  1460. [4:09:51 PM] Erik Broes: that is how it started
  1461. [4:10:03 PM] dillyg10: Go ahead, have a conversation with him
  1462. [4:10:04 PM] Erik Broes: Jason: yes it was O.o
  1463. [4:10:07 PM] dillyg10: Actually I'm sure you have
  1464. [4:10:08 PM] Jason Bratt: For the value our games we make: $5 is next to free
  1465. [4:10:10 PM] Erik Broes: millions of people had bought it two years ago
  1466. [4:10:13 PM] dillyg10: because he's the person who has been dosing everyone
  1467. [4:10:32 PM] Karl ⁞⁞ DolphinGaming: And millions stayed for servers
  1468. [4:10:33 PM] Jason Bratt: How about all the poor kids that can't afford $20 for the game?
  1469. [4:10:40 PM] dillyg10: *ddosing
  1470. [4:10:57 PM] Curtis3321<3: ngl, if i had single handedly ruined minecraft, i'd be pretty proud lmao. Big ass game ruined by me. #pro
  1471. [4:10:58 PM] dillyg10: The rest of us, are now just here because he opened the flood gates for servers to be profitable
  1472. [4:11:13 PM] Jason Bratt: [4:09 PM] Erik Broes:
  1473.  
  1474. <<< millions of people had bought it two years agoDoesn't matter the game itself was completelyl different 2 years ago
  1475. [4:11:16 PM] dillyg10: If it makes you feel any better
  1476. [4:11:20 PM] Jason Bratt: Don't even began to compare it
  1477. [4:11:24 PM] Erik Broes: Jason: they can save up for a little bit or get a birthday present? :)
  1478. [4:11:25 PM] Jason Bratt: Cause it's all bullshit
  1479. [4:11:30 PM] dillyg10: there is little to no chance a new server will ever be as successful as any that exist today
  1480. [4:11:36 PM] dillyg10: Blame the you tuber greed for that ;)
  1481. [4:12:18 PM] Jason Bratt: Same goes with servers, they can save up for it, or get a perk as a b-day present
  1482. [4:12:29 PM] dillyg10: Erik, if you want to honestly end all of the negative imagery we create
  1483. [4:12:38 PM] dillyg10: Then get a time machiene
  1484. [4:12:40 PM] dillyg10: and take down LC
  1485. [4:12:51 PM] Erik Broes: Jason: i totally agree that servers providing minigames etc and other sort of innovative things add value and surely that costs time and effort to make
  1486. [4:13:07 PM] dillyg10: At this point your complacent bitching is going no where.
  1487. [4:13:09 PM] Jason Bratt: Minecraft itself is pay to play, so all this crap is redundant
  1488. [4:13:19 PM] Erik Broes: but hell, it surely doesn't cost >million USD like hypixel is raking in
  1489. Max // VoidCraft Servers
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