Mik vs Star judgement

Given Mik's framing that "TBG would take the fight to Tariq [with his scanners]", and Star's framing that Tariq would "sneak across the field and assassinate the VIP", I think it can be fairly said that this fight is being argued as basically hide-and-seek. Later arguments from Star will contest the idea that Tariq could also fight with TBG if it came to it, but I'm going to set that aside for now to just focus on this.

On Star's side of the sensory argument, I'm basically still in the same camp I was in last round. I *do* actually think it's "a problem" that Tariq's information is relayed to him by like, spirits hovering around his head or whatever, and I also agree with Mik that conciseness of this information does appear to vary quite a lot. Even setting aside Mik's antifeat dump (which ranges from "convincing antifeat" to "this is an actively good feat to the degree that I don't understand why Mik posted it"), Tariq's powers kind of obviously vary and seem to follow less any rational "ruleset" and moreso just fulfill heroic needs for the scene.

That said, this doesn't mean "Tariq has no senses", or that "Because it can't be proven with 100% certainty, that means it's Iffy™". Regardless of the numerical quantification of "Tariq scrying with his wizard angels", the trend throughout the scans posted is that Tariq does "have senses", that these "matter and are used as par for strategy", and that they are "good enough to succeed in most contexts". Given that no special argument is made to the effect of "Tony will be hidden with super stealth technology magic" or whatnot, I have no reason to think "guy who finds people sneakily" will be unable to find him, sneakily.

> If you want a precise feat to justify this, I would highlight the "specific person amidst an entire city in the chaos of a pitched battle" scan as the most convincing scan in this context. It's literally almost the exact same scenario (a large search area with someone defending a VIP), and Tariq is noted as being certainly capable of finding them anyways just on the fact that it's "not impossible" for them to be found. This is, basically, as good as this kind of feat can get for this round barring an extra note at the end that says "also, he gets 3x stronger when in Tokyo".

Conversely, I don't think TBG's senses are nearly as good. There's essentially just one feat to discuss here ("the main one", as Mik puts it), and it's the x-ray tower feat. Star doesn't really antifeat post this, but in fairness she kinda didn't have to. Her first response mentions how this vision array only appears to work on a small, highly zoomed in area, and this goes completely uncontested by Mik for the rest of the round.

And to be clear, this isn't me saying "TBG has no senses", it's me saying that Star points out in R1 that TBG's senses will take him literal hours to put to use and Mik just kind of doesn't argue this at all. He brings up that TBG can "track footprints" (so can I) or "detect the lack of residue in a clean room" (so can I), but like, who cares lol. TBG's pilot is a human who has to see what he's looking at. The faster TBG is and the more information he provides to his pilot, the *longer* this process will take. A TBG flying over the battlefield using super zoomed in x-ray vision probably literally won't see anything at all because it would just be a bunch of blurs streaking across a tiny CRT screen inside his chest.

That brings me to the "can Tariq fight TBG" portion of things, and on that front, I still think TBG is likely to win.

That said, I do accept the following things as "true":

* That TBG is slow, and could potentially take over a minute to cross the spawn gap even if he saw Tariq immediately (Mik posts "can keep up with a missile" a lot in response to this, but it doesn't escape my notice that he never quantifies it- presumably just hoping that people read "missile" and think "really fast thing" without thinking "OOT")
* That TBG has poor range and accuracy
* That Tariq is accurate, and could hit TBG
* That Tariq's beams are a lot better than just "can kill Random Dudes", and definitely have a very high temperature in reference to magma
* That Tariq's miracles could kill TBG

But with that in mind, I still don't know how much damage Tariq's beam spam would actually do to TBG. There's a substantial difference between temperature and heat, and I don't know how long these beams linger for (there's a big difference between holding a match to your skin and swiping your hand over a match). Given the beams are being argued to shoot down missile barrages, I figure they linger for moments at most, and if that's true then it's plausible that even if they do heat TBG to melting that they wouldn't actually penetrate very deeply. I guess you could maybe argue something like "the barrage heats TBG as a whole to the point the pilot dies inside" or something, but again, I don't know, and no argument like this was made anyways.

> To be clear, I do think Tariq "hurts" TBG, and could maybe even damage it in significant ways (perhaps by shooting out its eyes, which seem to just be glass, for example). But I don't know if Tariq can like, punch holes through TBG. Admittedly, though, this line of reasoning is kind of beyond the round itself, since both participants seem to be arguing as though it would (Mik uses this for the OOT, and Star says the beams wouldn't one-shot Baymax on the premise of direct vs indirect hits rather than the premise of heat and duration).

In addition, I'm also not sure if Tariq's miracles will be relevant. Star says they'll be relevant only if the enemy is "boxed in or close", but could he cast these in time if they were so close? Is Tariq able to dodge and fire back at his enemies while chanting, or does he have to stand still? Are his shields good enough to block TBG's bullets? Maybe. But can they block strikes? Ehhh? I'm flipping around responses here, but it overall seems kind of unclear to me how mobile TBG is while using shields, how good these shields are, how fast they come up, and how easily Tariq is able to summon a miracle. I think these shields are good enough to prevent Tariq from being one-shot, I guess, but I still think he's on the backfoot if TBG presses offense, and his counter-offense just seems "alright" to me.

With this all said, though, ****I still think Star wins****. As Mik mentions in his first response, TBG is going to leave Tony behind and go off to search for Tariq by himself. I think this is going to be a very long and mostly fruitless search, and Tariq is going to be aided in this fact by his general stealthiness, ability to perceive the map from an omniscient PoV, and overall luck and divine guidance.

> As a side-note here, I don't really buy the framing of this as "Tariq doing 1,000 different things at once". The ability to frame a win condition in simpler terms ("I punch you") does not actually make the win condition better, and win conditions from more complex power sets are not actually less likely. Ohma has a complex win condition against Wakatsuki, he still won.

Again, I do think TBG is likely to win an engagement, but I also think engagements between Tariq and TBG would be likely to start on Tariq's terms. Both parties seem to accept that Tariq is at least vaguely capable of hurting TBG, and if he stealths up on him it's very likely that a miracle would instantly incapacitate him. I don't know how likely such an engagement is, sure, but that isn't because Tariq sucks, but rather because *it seems unlikely he will be in an engagement to begin with*.

Basically, in "pop-off" firepower and "passive" durability, TBG wins. But this is also a difference of like, "a few times", and the ability to press this depends on factors TBG kind of just unambiguously fails in (senses, tactics, stealth, range, not being 30 feet tall and as wide as a barn). I don't think this is an impossible round, and I went back and forth on this a lot as it went on, but I do think Star turned it around by the end.