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Diaspora Community CodeChat 06-28-2012

DeadSuperHero Jun 28th, 2012 22 Never
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  1. Jun 28 12:05:39 <DeadSuperHero> So I wanted to bring up a few community-related announcements first.
  2. Jun 28 12:06:10 <DeadSuperHero> First and foremost, our community contributor and podmin Justin Thomas is continuing his work on Scrypto, which is a Rails engine for encryption in Diaspora.
  3. Jun 28 12:06:19 <maxwell>       or actually
  4. Jun 28 12:06:29 <maxwell>       scripto can be used in any rails app
  5. Jun 28 12:06:35 <DeadSuperHero> Right.
  6. Jun 28 12:06:39 <maxwell>       thats why its cool it is an engine
  7. Jun 28 12:06:47 <DeadSuperHero> But he's looking for testers over at his pod at serendipito.us
  8. Jun 28 12:06:59 <SlackerD|2>    I'll check that out
  9. Jun 28 12:07:10 <DeadSuperHero> We're always looking to help a brotha out, and his work is really cool.
  10. Jun 28 12:07:46 <SlackerD|2>    ummm
  11. Jun 28 12:07:48 <maxwell>       yeah, if you are starting any new rails projects
  12. Jun 28 12:07:55 <SlackerD|2>    not sure what is going on with his server
  13. Jun 28 12:07:58 <maxwell>       you should try integrating it
  14. Jun 28 12:08:05 <SlackerD|2>    I'm getting a lengthy page about PHP
  15. Jun 28 12:08:14 <maxwell>       :P
  16. Jun 28 12:08:21 <DeadSuperHero> my bad. ser.endipito.us
  17. Jun 28 12:08:22 <SlackerD|2>    "System    Linux s11013.handsonwebhosting.com 2.6.18-308.8.2.el5 #1 SMP Tue Jun 12 09:58:12 EDT 2012 x86_64"
  18. Jun 28 12:08:29 <DeadSuperHero> Silly subdomains.
  19. Jun 28 12:08:37 <SlackerD|2>    lol
  20. Jun 28 12:09:03 <maxwell>       nice catch
  21. Jun 28 12:09:05 <DeadSuperHero> But if you're working on integrating your own Rails project with the D* codebase, let us know about it!
  22. Jun 28 12:09:36 <DeadSuperHero> Lots of cool little projects like Scrypto have an opportunity to branch out, grow, and get used by other Rails projects.
  23. Jun 28 12:09:42 <maxwell>       yeah
  24. Jun 28 12:09:55 <maxwell>       trying to make them general, and using d* as a guinea pig is best
  25. Jun 28 12:10:06 <maxwell>       for example, the conversation code that it is built on top of it is a bit iffy
  26. Jun 28 12:10:12 <maxwell>       but since it is built as an engine
  27. Jun 28 12:10:24 <maxwell>       it will be easier to re-apply, and live on in other applications
  28. Jun 28 12:11:20 <maxwell>       ok
  29. Jun 28 12:11:23 <maxwell>       :)
  30. Jun 28 12:12:13 <DeadSuperHero> Similarly, Hans Fase, the podmin behind hfase.com, is working on an install script for deploying to Ubuntu servers.
  31. Jun 28 12:12:38 *       [JT] (~JT]@2001:470:e885:0:d41e:e8cc:a534:a09f) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  32. Jun 28 12:12:41 <DeadSuperHero> He hasn't released it yet, but I've been talking to him, and he's willing to have a few people look at it before he pushes it out to the masses.
  33. Jun 28 12:13:06 <raven24>       yeah, I've looked at it (a few weeks ago) and it was in its early stages
  34. Jun 28 12:13:18 <raven24>       but I guess it's improved since then
  35. Jun 28 12:13:27 <DeadSuperHero> He's been pretty excited about it, and he's working on improving it all over the place.
  36. Jun 28 12:13:40 <DeadSuperHero> Maybe you'd be willing to take a look at it again, raven24
  37. Jun 28 12:13:41 <DeadSuperHero> ?
  38. Jun 28 12:13:41 <DeadSuperHero> :)
  39. Jun 28 12:13:50 <maxwell>       hey [JT] we just finished talking about scrpto
  40. Jun 28 12:13:59 <raven24>       sure, still the same gist, I assume
  41. Jun 28 12:14:05 <[JT]>  Oh? Sorry I'm late. :)
  42. Jun 28 12:14:12 <maxwell>       its cool :)
  43. Jun 28 12:14:23 <SlackerD|2>    I just joined your pod, Justin.
  44. Jun 28 12:14:39 <SlackerD|2>    Photo uploading doesn't seem to work for the profiles.
  45. Jun 28 12:15:06 <[JT]>  Hmm. That's odd. I haven't heard that before.
  46. Jun 28 12:15:10 <[JT]>  I'll look at it.
  47. Jun 28 12:15:12 <maxwell>       SlackerD|2: I'm sure [JT] appreciated the feedback, but a pm or an email follow might be best for now <3333
  48. Jun 28 12:15:18 <[JT]>  Yep.
  49. Jun 28 12:16:12 <SlackerD|2>    ok
  50. Jun 28 12:16:21 <maxwell>       thanks!
  51. Jun 28 12:16:41 <DeadSuperHero> [JT], what kind of help do you need with testing out Scrypto?
  52. Jun 28 12:16:50 <maxwell>       or anything else you wanted to mention?
  53. Jun 28 12:16:51 <DeadSuperHero> Do you need just user feedback, or would podmin feedback be useful as well?
  54. Jun 28 12:17:21 <[JT]>  Both would be helpful. One thing that quickly bubbled up is that I need to improve key management (e.g., prevent duplicate keys).
  55. Jun 28 12:17:33 <[JT]>  I'd really like to see the federation part work.
  56. Jun 28 12:17:44 <DeadSuperHero> What exactly would you need to federate with it?
  57. Jun 28 12:17:45 <[JT]>  But that takes more commitment from someone to stand up a test pod.
  58. Jun 28 12:18:06 <[JT]>  Just folks running the integrate-scrypto branch.
  59. Jun 28 12:18:31 <maxwell>       maybe a post to the mailing list would help?
  60. Jun 28 12:18:38 <DeadSuperHero> I was just thinking that.
  61. Jun 28 12:18:46 <maxwell>       I'm sure some people would be interested in helping out?
  62. Jun 28 12:18:46 <[JT]>  That's a good idea; I'll send something out.
  63. Jun 28 12:18:52 <DeadSuperHero> Sweet!
  64. Jun 28 12:19:42 <maxwell>       [JT]: i still want to give more feedback, i really think if you could make scypto a really really slick engine, lots of rails apps could throw it in their apps
  65. Jun 28 12:19:50 <DeadSuperHero> Totally.
  66. Jun 28 12:20:02 <[JT]>  Sure - I'm open to all suggestions.
  67. Jun 28 12:20:05 <maxwell>       i imagine like small bloggers really liking as an easy way to drop them secure messages
  68. Jun 28 12:20:12 <DeadSuperHero> :D
  69. Jun 28 12:20:15 <DeadSuperHero> That'd be sweet.
  70. Jun 28 12:20:26 <maxwell>       i think it could move the needle much more than in just D*
  71. Jun 28 12:21:27 <[JT]>  maxwell: I agree. There are some things that I had to spend more time than I wanted on to work with the idiosyncracies of D* (e.g., the Contact/Person setup in messages).
  72. Jun 28 12:21:38 <[JT]>  But that's okay - it serves as a good initial platform.
  73. Jun 28 12:22:04 *       bkeefe (62d67070@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.214.112.112) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  74. Jun 28 12:22:21 <maxwell>       [JT]: yup, we can talk more out of band but I think YOU really want it to be decoupled from our complicated stuff
  75. Jun 28 12:22:37 <[JT]>  Absolutely - as much as possible.
  76. Jun 28 12:22:37 <DeadSuperHero> modularity is a good thing.
  77. Jun 28 12:23:05 *       dave_y (~dave_y@ip68-4-205-245.oc.oc.cox.net) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  78. Jun 28 12:24:25 <bkeefe>        So what kind of changes has D* been going through recently?
  79. Jun 28 12:24:39 <maxwell>       bkeefe: we have been talking about them
  80. Jun 28 12:24:49 <bkeefe>        I've seen some incremental changes on Github here and there, Are there big changes planned?
  81. Jun 28 12:25:54 <raven24>       bkeefe: I recommend you read the http://devblog.joindiaspora.com/
  82. Jun 28 12:26:13 <bkeefe>        thanks!!!
  83. Jun 28 12:26:22 <maxwell>       raven24: thx
  84. Jun 28 12:26:28 <raven24>       you'll get a gist of all the going-ons and (most of the time) weekly updates
  85. Jun 28 12:26:49 <maxwell>       also
  86. Jun 28 12:27:02 <maxwell>       frenetic found a race condition in federation code which is causing some errors
  87. Jun 28 12:27:36 <maxwell>       s/he is not here, but i wanted to send a big shout out to them for doing the due dillengene on documenting it
  88. Jun 28 12:27:44 <maxwell>       race conditions are hard :(
  89. Jun 28 12:27:59 <DeadSuperHero> I can imagine.
  90. Jun 28 12:28:41 <maxwell>       esp. in such a frustrating part of the codebase
  91. Jun 28 12:28:51 <raven24>       is the proposed change in the issue gonna help?
  92. Jun 28 12:28:54 <bkeefe>        what exactly does the problem do?
  93. Jun 28 12:29:11 <maxwell>       raven24: honestly, I am not sure
  94. Jun 28 12:29:20 <raven24>       bkeefe: https://github.com/diaspora/diaspora/issues/3420
  95. Jun 28 12:29:31 <maxwell>       his diagnosis of the problem  sees right to me
  96. Jun 28 12:29:33 <DeadSuperHero> raven24, nice!
  97. Jun 28 12:30:15 <bkeefe>        It looks like he/she is already working on a fix.
  98. Jun 28 12:30:20 <bkeefe>        Good to know!
  99. Jun 28 12:31:14 <maxwell>       so helping verify whatever he comes up with would be awesome
  100. Jun 28 12:31:31 <raven24>       I guess we really need a federation-testuite
  101. Jun 28 12:31:50 <maxwell>       yeah unfortunately, testing race conditions are really hard
  102. Jun 28 12:32:12 <raven24>       true...
  103. Jun 28 12:32:32 <maxwell>       these are indicative about why we need a different strat for federation in general
  104. Jun 28 12:32:46 <maxwell>       or distrubtuted-ness in general
  105. Jun 28 12:33:15 <maxwell>       sigh
  106. Jun 28 12:33:37 <maxwell>       well, so one other thing that people have been asking about (/hatip raven24 )
  107. Jun 28 12:33:50 <raven24>       :)
  108. Jun 28 12:33:51 <maxwell>       is something new that dennis, daniel and I have been working on this summer
  109. Jun 28 12:34:06 <maxwell>       is called makr.io
  110. Jun 28 12:34:06 <DeadSuperHero> It's really sweet.
  111. Jun 28 12:34:23 <maxwell>       i mention it because it started as doing UX experiments for D*
  112. Jun 28 12:34:43 <maxwell>       the reason we started in another place was so we could make lots of changes without making people mad
  113. Jun 28 12:34:52 <maxwell>       something we have not been good at  in the past
  114. Jun 28 12:35:02 *       offSchub is now known as DenSchub
  115. Jun 28 12:35:08 <maxwell>       but one problem that we found while doing d* for the past couple of yrs
  116. Jun 28 12:35:42 <maxwell>       is that, in addition to technical owning the bits, people need tools to actually MAKE stuff on the internet
  117. Jun 28 12:35:44 <DenSchub>      huh? Why am I always missing the meetings? o_O
  118. Jun 28 12:35:54 <maxwell>       dude, same time every two weeks
  119. Jun 28 12:36:06 <DenSchub>      my brain...
  120. Jun 28 12:36:09 <DenSchub>      hi there!
  121. Jun 28 12:36:14 *       DeadSuperHero hugs DenSchub
  122. Jun 28 12:36:16 <maxwell>       hey sir
  123. Jun 28 12:36:16 <DeadSuperHero> it's okay.
  124. Jun 28 12:36:40 <maxwell>       so, we wanted to experiment with some completely different ways to solve these related problems
  125. Jun 28 12:37:15 <maxwell>       its much more focused on helping be creative in an internet native way
  126. Jun 28 12:37:23 <DeadSuperHero> You could think of makr as an evolution of a set of ideas about how the social web could work.
  127. Jun 28 12:37:32 <maxwell>       the main point I want to stress, is that its a separate project with related goals
  128. Jun 28 12:37:45 <maxwell>       but its trying to break up this big problem spaces into separate things
  129. Jun 28 12:37:49 <raven24>       as a personal feedback for makr.io: I really don't like that sort of thing. I guess I don't want to be that creative, and write text instead ;)
  130. Jun 28 12:38:00 <maxwell>       raven24: totally Ok!
  131. Jun 28 12:38:10 <maxwell>       in fact thats really good feedback
  132. Jun 28 12:38:34 <maxwell>       we by no means see it as something that will be the universal 'social network' expereicne
  133. Jun 28 12:38:35 <maxwell>       but
  134. Jun 28 12:38:45 <maxwell>       we did want a space to innovate on HOW people communicate
  135. Jun 28 12:39:05 <maxwell>       and maybe(hopefully) build something that is make unequivocally better by being a distributed system
  136. Jun 28 12:39:33 <maxwell>       the next generation of the social web needs it own way to communicate.
  137. Jun 28 12:39:44 <raven24>       yeah, I can imagine people going crazy for that sort of thing,
  138. Jun 28 12:39:45 <maxwell>       i don't know if makr.io is it, but we needed a space to experiment
  139. Jun 28 12:39:47 <DeadSuperHero> Not only to communicate, but it's a different way to use social software.
  140. Jun 28 12:40:17 <maxwell>       the important part that is missing from d*, that we are tying to understand with makr, is about creating new things
  141. Jun 28 12:40:20 <DeadSuperHero> The design focuses a lot on remixing and creating content, to add your own personal voice to the mix.
  142. Jun 28 12:40:30 <maxwell>       and making a system where actually borrowing things from other places and putting your own spin on it
  143. Jun 28 12:40:47 <maxwell>       and make that oK
  144. Jun 28 12:40:56 <maxwell>       because if everyone in the world is going to care about their data
  145. Jun 28 12:41:06 <maxwell>       they need to feel like it really means something to them
  146. Jun 28 12:41:24 <maxwell>       and i don't think current social system, d* included, really institutionalize that feeling
  147. Jun 28 12:41:42 <maxwell>       certainly, a bunch of smart nerds know what is at stake, but most people dont
  148. Jun 28 12:41:54 <maxwell>       and we want to try and move the needle to make the web a positive place for everyone
  149. Jun 28 12:42:00 <DeadSuperHero> user data, at this point, is little more than abstract representation of how social data is paresed.
  150. Jun 28 12:42:09 <DeadSuperHero> *parsed
  151. Jun 28 12:42:31 <raven24>       like the mess that was myspace customizations, but with a nice 'container' for each individual message :)
  152. Jun 28 12:42:31 <maxwell>       it is both fundamental, and completely misunderstood
  153. Jun 28 12:42:51 <maxwell>       raven24: not only that, but enabling new modes of production
  154. Jun 28 12:43:00 <maxwell>       memes are creating silly messages today
  155. Jun 28 12:43:20 <maxwell>       but it very well could be the way that ideas are created and proliferated in a distributed and non centralized manner
  156. Jun 28 12:43:32 <maxwell>       ^^ right now, that is just a hypothisis
  157. Jun 28 12:43:37 <maxwell>       but one we want to explore further
  158. Jun 28 12:44:32 <raven24>       I guess that can be really hard, since like, pictures of people or popular culture can be really location-specific
  159. Jun 28 12:44:47 <raven24>       so, not to create a bunch of 'inside jokes'
  160. Jun 28 12:44:57 <bkeefe>        is Makr still going to be Open Source?
  161. Jun 28 12:45:01 <maxwell>       so tl;dr makr.io, separate project, related goals that came out of questions we had from d*; two parts to owning your data we need to solve, technical and emotional
  162. Jun 28 12:45:16 <raven24>       bkeefe: https://github.com/makrio/makrio
  163. Jun 28 12:45:29 <maxwell>       https://github.com/makrio/makrio
  164. Jun 28 12:45:34 <maxwell>       whoops
  165. Jun 28 12:45:35 <maxwell>       thx raven24
  166. Jun 28 12:45:38 <raven24>       ;)
  167. Jun 28 12:45:56 <maxwell>       raven24: a good point, we are trying to figure out how we make it better for small groups of people
  168. Jun 28 12:46:08 <maxwell>       we are trying to take a lot of our learnings from d* here
  169. Jun 28 12:46:35 <maxwell>       i.e., we never really ended up building something that us and our friends want to use, and while we were able to spark the imagination of people all over the globe
  170. Jun 28 12:46:38 <bkeefe>        what's going to happen to D?
  171. Jun 28 12:46:45 <maxwell>       it was kinda lonely for what we original intended
  172. Jun 28 12:46:54 <maxwell>       bkeefe: as I said, nothing is going away or stopping
  173. Jun 28 12:47:03 <bkeefe>        oh. phew!
  174. Jun 28 12:47:06 <maxwell>       they are separate projects
  175. Jun 28 12:47:36 <maxwell>       but unfortunately they both require our time :)
  176. Jun 28 12:48:03 <DenSchub>      and "unfortunately" makr.io get's more time right now.
  177. Jun 28 12:48:04 <maxwell>       one is trying to create a next generation personal publishing platform
  178. Jun 28 12:48:12 <maxwell>       and the other is the basis of its distrubution
  179. Jun 28 12:50:19 <bkeefe>        so will D* end up sharing any of the code that Makr is getting?
  180. Jun 28 12:50:58 <DeadSuperHero> bkeefe, technically speaking, Makr already does share code with D*. ;)
  181. Jun 28 12:51:15 <maxwell>       i think it is a possibility, there is some stuff that we fixed.  a lot of the 'fixing' for some of the d* code is just ripping it out
  182. Jun 28 12:51:46 <maxwell>       we realized that it was in nobodies interest to continue the radical changes as feature flags in the current code base
  183. Jun 28 12:51:50 <maxwell>       causes too many bugs for everyone
  184. Jun 28 12:52:00 <maxwell>       and doesn't help us make something simple and good
  185. Jun 28 12:52:07 <maxwell>       versus something broad and shallow
  186. Jun 28 12:52:29 <bkeefe>        makes sense.
  187. Jun 28 12:54:02 <bkeefe>        how can the community help with Makr?
  188. Jun 28 12:54:51 <maxwell>       well, the community can help diaspora if they want by trying to pull fixes out of it
  189. Jun 28 12:55:22 <maxwell>       there are some decent refactorings of photos
  190. Jun 28 12:55:54 <maxwell>       and some other things
  191. Jun 28 12:55:59 <maxwell>       if someone was up to that
  192. Jun 28 12:56:06 <bkeefe>        :)
  193. Jun 28 12:56:13 <maxwell>       that would actually be huge
  194. Jun 28 12:56:22 <maxwell>       but its a fair amount of work
  195. Jun 28 12:56:30 <maxwell>       and would require someone pretty awesome and dedicated
  196. Jun 28 12:56:54 <maxwell>       bkeefe: thanks for the question
  197. Jun 28 12:56:59 <maxwell>       anyone else?
  198. Jun 28 12:57:04 <bkeefe>        thanks for the answer!
  199. Jun 28 12:57:51 <maxwell>       ok I need to go get myself some coffee from the store
  200. Jun 28 12:57:56 <DeadSuperHero> kk
  201. Jun 28 12:58:00 <maxwell>       so email me maxwell@joindiaspora.com if you have any questions
  202. Jun 28 12:58:04 <DeadSuperHero> Thanks for coming everyone! :)
  203. Jun 28 12:58:09 <raven24>       alright
  204. Jun 28 13:03:08 <SlackerD|2>    no problem
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