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- Jun 28 12:05:39 <DeadSuperHero> So I wanted to bring up a few community-related announcements first.
- Jun 28 12:06:10 <DeadSuperHero> First and foremost, our community contributor and podmin Justin Thomas is continuing his work on Scrypto, which is a Rails engine for encryption in Diaspora.
- Jun 28 12:06:19 <maxwell> or actually
- Jun 28 12:06:29 <maxwell> scripto can be used in any rails app
- Jun 28 12:06:35 <DeadSuperHero> Right.
- Jun 28 12:06:39 <maxwell> thats why its cool it is an engine
- Jun 28 12:06:47 <DeadSuperHero> But he's looking for testers over at his pod at serendipito.us
- Jun 28 12:06:59 <SlackerD|2> I'll check that out
- Jun 28 12:07:10 <DeadSuperHero> We're always looking to help a brotha out, and his work is really cool.
- Jun 28 12:07:46 <SlackerD|2> ummm
- Jun 28 12:07:48 <maxwell> yeah, if you are starting any new rails projects
- Jun 28 12:07:55 <SlackerD|2> not sure what is going on with his server
- Jun 28 12:07:58 <maxwell> you should try integrating it
- Jun 28 12:08:05 <SlackerD|2> I'm getting a lengthy page about PHP
- Jun 28 12:08:14 <maxwell> :P
- Jun 28 12:08:21 <DeadSuperHero> my bad. ser.endipito.us
- Jun 28 12:08:22 <SlackerD|2> "System Linux s11013.handsonwebhosting.com 2.6.18-308.8.2.el5 #1 SMP Tue Jun 12 09:58:12 EDT 2012 x86_64"
- Jun 28 12:08:29 <DeadSuperHero> Silly subdomains.
- Jun 28 12:08:37 <SlackerD|2> lol
- Jun 28 12:09:03 <maxwell> nice catch
- Jun 28 12:09:05 <DeadSuperHero> But if you're working on integrating your own Rails project with the D* codebase, let us know about it!
- Jun 28 12:09:36 <DeadSuperHero> Lots of cool little projects like Scrypto have an opportunity to branch out, grow, and get used by other Rails projects.
- Jun 28 12:09:42 <maxwell> yeah
- Jun 28 12:09:55 <maxwell> trying to make them general, and using d* as a guinea pig is best
- Jun 28 12:10:06 <maxwell> for example, the conversation code that it is built on top of it is a bit iffy
- Jun 28 12:10:12 <maxwell> but since it is built as an engine
- Jun 28 12:10:24 <maxwell> it will be easier to re-apply, and live on in other applications
- Jun 28 12:11:20 <maxwell> ok
- Jun 28 12:11:23 <maxwell> :)
- Jun 28 12:12:13 <DeadSuperHero> Similarly, Hans Fase, the podmin behind hfase.com, is working on an install script for deploying to Ubuntu servers.
- Jun 28 12:12:38 * [JT] (~JT]@2001:470:e885:0:d41e:e8cc:a534:a09f) has joined #diaspora-meeting
- Jun 28 12:12:41 <DeadSuperHero> He hasn't released it yet, but I've been talking to him, and he's willing to have a few people look at it before he pushes it out to the masses.
- Jun 28 12:13:06 <raven24> yeah, I've looked at it (a few weeks ago) and it was in its early stages
- Jun 28 12:13:18 <raven24> but I guess it's improved since then
- Jun 28 12:13:27 <DeadSuperHero> He's been pretty excited about it, and he's working on improving it all over the place.
- Jun 28 12:13:40 <DeadSuperHero> Maybe you'd be willing to take a look at it again, raven24
- Jun 28 12:13:41 <DeadSuperHero> ?
- Jun 28 12:13:41 <DeadSuperHero> :)
- Jun 28 12:13:50 <maxwell> hey [JT] we just finished talking about scrpto
- Jun 28 12:13:59 <raven24> sure, still the same gist, I assume
- Jun 28 12:14:05 <[JT]> Oh? Sorry I'm late. :)
- Jun 28 12:14:12 <maxwell> its cool :)
- Jun 28 12:14:23 <SlackerD|2> I just joined your pod, Justin.
- Jun 28 12:14:39 <SlackerD|2> Photo uploading doesn't seem to work for the profiles.
- Jun 28 12:15:06 <[JT]> Hmm. That's odd. I haven't heard that before.
- Jun 28 12:15:10 <[JT]> I'll look at it.
- Jun 28 12:15:12 <maxwell> SlackerD|2: I'm sure [JT] appreciated the feedback, but a pm or an email follow might be best for now <3333
- Jun 28 12:15:18 <[JT]> Yep.
- Jun 28 12:16:12 <SlackerD|2> ok
- Jun 28 12:16:21 <maxwell> thanks!
- Jun 28 12:16:41 <DeadSuperHero> [JT], what kind of help do you need with testing out Scrypto?
- Jun 28 12:16:50 <maxwell> or anything else you wanted to mention?
- Jun 28 12:16:51 <DeadSuperHero> Do you need just user feedback, or would podmin feedback be useful as well?
- Jun 28 12:17:21 <[JT]> Both would be helpful. One thing that quickly bubbled up is that I need to improve key management (e.g., prevent duplicate keys).
- Jun 28 12:17:33 <[JT]> I'd really like to see the federation part work.
- Jun 28 12:17:44 <DeadSuperHero> What exactly would you need to federate with it?
- Jun 28 12:17:45 <[JT]> But that takes more commitment from someone to stand up a test pod.
- Jun 28 12:18:06 <[JT]> Just folks running the integrate-scrypto branch.
- Jun 28 12:18:31 <maxwell> maybe a post to the mailing list would help?
- Jun 28 12:18:38 <DeadSuperHero> I was just thinking that.
- Jun 28 12:18:46 <maxwell> I'm sure some people would be interested in helping out?
- Jun 28 12:18:46 <[JT]> That's a good idea; I'll send something out.
- Jun 28 12:18:52 <DeadSuperHero> Sweet!
- Jun 28 12:19:42 <maxwell> [JT]: i still want to give more feedback, i really think if you could make scypto a really really slick engine, lots of rails apps could throw it in their apps
- Jun 28 12:19:50 <DeadSuperHero> Totally.
- Jun 28 12:20:02 <[JT]> Sure - I'm open to all suggestions.
- Jun 28 12:20:05 <maxwell> i imagine like small bloggers really liking as an easy way to drop them secure messages
- Jun 28 12:20:12 <DeadSuperHero> :D
- Jun 28 12:20:15 <DeadSuperHero> That'd be sweet.
- Jun 28 12:20:26 <maxwell> i think it could move the needle much more than in just D*
- Jun 28 12:21:27 <[JT]> maxwell: I agree. There are some things that I had to spend more time than I wanted on to work with the idiosyncracies of D* (e.g., the Contact/Person setup in messages).
- Jun 28 12:21:38 <[JT]> But that's okay - it serves as a good initial platform.
- Jun 28 12:22:04 * bkeefe (62d67070@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.214.112.112) has joined #diaspora-meeting
- Jun 28 12:22:21 <maxwell> [JT]: yup, we can talk more out of band but I think YOU really want it to be decoupled from our complicated stuff
- Jun 28 12:22:37 <[JT]> Absolutely - as much as possible.
- Jun 28 12:22:37 <DeadSuperHero> modularity is a good thing.
- Jun 28 12:23:05 * dave_y (~dave_y@ip68-4-205-245.oc.oc.cox.net) has joined #diaspora-meeting
- Jun 28 12:24:25 <bkeefe> So what kind of changes has D* been going through recently?
- Jun 28 12:24:39 <maxwell> bkeefe: we have been talking about them
- Jun 28 12:24:49 <bkeefe> I've seen some incremental changes on Github here and there, Are there big changes planned?
- Jun 28 12:25:54 <raven24> bkeefe: I recommend you read the http://devblog.joindiaspora.com/
- Jun 28 12:26:13 <bkeefe> thanks!!!
- Jun 28 12:26:22 <maxwell> raven24: thx
- Jun 28 12:26:28 <raven24> you'll get a gist of all the going-ons and (most of the time) weekly updates
- Jun 28 12:26:49 <maxwell> also
- Jun 28 12:27:02 <maxwell> frenetic found a race condition in federation code which is causing some errors
- Jun 28 12:27:36 <maxwell> s/he is not here, but i wanted to send a big shout out to them for doing the due dillengene on documenting it
- Jun 28 12:27:44 <maxwell> race conditions are hard :(
- Jun 28 12:27:59 <DeadSuperHero> I can imagine.
- Jun 28 12:28:41 <maxwell> esp. in such a frustrating part of the codebase
- Jun 28 12:28:51 <raven24> is the proposed change in the issue gonna help?
- Jun 28 12:28:54 <bkeefe> what exactly does the problem do?
- Jun 28 12:29:11 <maxwell> raven24: honestly, I am not sure
- Jun 28 12:29:20 <raven24> bkeefe: https://github.com/diaspora/diaspora/issues/3420
- Jun 28 12:29:31 <maxwell> his diagnosis of the problem sees right to me
- Jun 28 12:29:33 <DeadSuperHero> raven24, nice!
- Jun 28 12:30:15 <bkeefe> It looks like he/she is already working on a fix.
- Jun 28 12:30:20 <bkeefe> Good to know!
- Jun 28 12:31:14 <maxwell> so helping verify whatever he comes up with would be awesome
- Jun 28 12:31:31 <raven24> I guess we really need a federation-testuite
- Jun 28 12:31:50 <maxwell> yeah unfortunately, testing race conditions are really hard
- Jun 28 12:32:12 <raven24> true...
- Jun 28 12:32:32 <maxwell> these are indicative about why we need a different strat for federation in general
- Jun 28 12:32:46 <maxwell> or distrubtuted-ness in general
- Jun 28 12:33:15 <maxwell> sigh
- Jun 28 12:33:37 <maxwell> well, so one other thing that people have been asking about (/hatip raven24 )
- Jun 28 12:33:50 <raven24> :)
- Jun 28 12:33:51 <maxwell> is something new that dennis, daniel and I have been working on this summer
- Jun 28 12:34:06 <maxwell> is called makr.io
- Jun 28 12:34:06 <DeadSuperHero> It's really sweet.
- Jun 28 12:34:23 <maxwell> i mention it because it started as doing UX experiments for D*
- Jun 28 12:34:43 <maxwell> the reason we started in another place was so we could make lots of changes without making people mad
- Jun 28 12:34:52 <maxwell> something we have not been good at in the past
- Jun 28 12:35:02 * offSchub is now known as DenSchub
- Jun 28 12:35:08 <maxwell> but one problem that we found while doing d* for the past couple of yrs
- Jun 28 12:35:42 <maxwell> is that, in addition to technical owning the bits, people need tools to actually MAKE stuff on the internet
- Jun 28 12:35:44 <DenSchub> huh? Why am I always missing the meetings? o_O
- Jun 28 12:35:54 <maxwell> dude, same time every two weeks
- Jun 28 12:36:06 <DenSchub> my brain...
- Jun 28 12:36:09 <DenSchub> hi there!
- Jun 28 12:36:14 * DeadSuperHero hugs DenSchub
- Jun 28 12:36:16 <maxwell> hey sir
- Jun 28 12:36:16 <DeadSuperHero> it's okay.
- Jun 28 12:36:40 <maxwell> so, we wanted to experiment with some completely different ways to solve these related problems
- Jun 28 12:37:15 <maxwell> its much more focused on helping be creative in an internet native way
- Jun 28 12:37:23 <DeadSuperHero> You could think of makr as an evolution of a set of ideas about how the social web could work.
- Jun 28 12:37:32 <maxwell> the main point I want to stress, is that its a separate project with related goals
- Jun 28 12:37:45 <maxwell> but its trying to break up this big problem spaces into separate things
- Jun 28 12:37:49 <raven24> as a personal feedback for makr.io: I really don't like that sort of thing. I guess I don't want to be that creative, and write text instead ;)
- Jun 28 12:38:00 <maxwell> raven24: totally Ok!
- Jun 28 12:38:10 <maxwell> in fact thats really good feedback
- Jun 28 12:38:34 <maxwell> we by no means see it as something that will be the universal 'social network' expereicne
- Jun 28 12:38:35 <maxwell> but
- Jun 28 12:38:45 <maxwell> we did want a space to innovate on HOW people communicate
- Jun 28 12:39:05 <maxwell> and maybe(hopefully) build something that is make unequivocally better by being a distributed system
- Jun 28 12:39:33 <maxwell> the next generation of the social web needs it own way to communicate.
- Jun 28 12:39:44 <raven24> yeah, I can imagine people going crazy for that sort of thing,
- Jun 28 12:39:45 <maxwell> i don't know if makr.io is it, but we needed a space to experiment
- Jun 28 12:39:47 <DeadSuperHero> Not only to communicate, but it's a different way to use social software.
- Jun 28 12:40:17 <maxwell> the important part that is missing from d*, that we are tying to understand with makr, is about creating new things
- Jun 28 12:40:20 <DeadSuperHero> The design focuses a lot on remixing and creating content, to add your own personal voice to the mix.
- Jun 28 12:40:30 <maxwell> and making a system where actually borrowing things from other places and putting your own spin on it
- Jun 28 12:40:47 <maxwell> and make that oK
- Jun 28 12:40:56 <maxwell> because if everyone in the world is going to care about their data
- Jun 28 12:41:06 <maxwell> they need to feel like it really means something to them
- Jun 28 12:41:24 <maxwell> and i don't think current social system, d* included, really institutionalize that feeling
- Jun 28 12:41:42 <maxwell> certainly, a bunch of smart nerds know what is at stake, but most people dont
- Jun 28 12:41:54 <maxwell> and we want to try and move the needle to make the web a positive place for everyone
- Jun 28 12:42:00 <DeadSuperHero> user data, at this point, is little more than abstract representation of how social data is paresed.
- Jun 28 12:42:09 <DeadSuperHero> *parsed
- Jun 28 12:42:31 <raven24> like the mess that was myspace customizations, but with a nice 'container' for each individual message :)
- Jun 28 12:42:31 <maxwell> it is both fundamental, and completely misunderstood
- Jun 28 12:42:51 <maxwell> raven24: not only that, but enabling new modes of production
- Jun 28 12:43:00 <maxwell> memes are creating silly messages today
- Jun 28 12:43:20 <maxwell> but it very well could be the way that ideas are created and proliferated in a distributed and non centralized manner
- Jun 28 12:43:32 <maxwell> ^^ right now, that is just a hypothisis
- Jun 28 12:43:37 <maxwell> but one we want to explore further
- Jun 28 12:44:32 <raven24> I guess that can be really hard, since like, pictures of people or popular culture can be really location-specific
- Jun 28 12:44:47 <raven24> so, not to create a bunch of 'inside jokes'
- Jun 28 12:44:57 <bkeefe> is Makr still going to be Open Source?
- Jun 28 12:45:01 <maxwell> so tl;dr makr.io, separate project, related goals that came out of questions we had from d*; two parts to owning your data we need to solve, technical and emotional
- Jun 28 12:45:16 <raven24> bkeefe: https://github.com/makrio/makrio
- Jun 28 12:45:29 <maxwell> https://github.com/makrio/makrio
- Jun 28 12:45:34 <maxwell> whoops
- Jun 28 12:45:35 <maxwell> thx raven24
- Jun 28 12:45:38 <raven24> ;)
- Jun 28 12:45:56 <maxwell> raven24: a good point, we are trying to figure out how we make it better for small groups of people
- Jun 28 12:46:08 <maxwell> we are trying to take a lot of our learnings from d* here
- Jun 28 12:46:35 <maxwell> i.e., we never really ended up building something that us and our friends want to use, and while we were able to spark the imagination of people all over the globe
- Jun 28 12:46:38 <bkeefe> what's going to happen to D?
- Jun 28 12:46:45 <maxwell> it was kinda lonely for what we original intended
- Jun 28 12:46:54 <maxwell> bkeefe: as I said, nothing is going away or stopping
- Jun 28 12:47:03 <bkeefe> oh. phew!
- Jun 28 12:47:06 <maxwell> they are separate projects
- Jun 28 12:47:36 <maxwell> but unfortunately they both require our time :)
- Jun 28 12:48:03 <DenSchub> and "unfortunately" makr.io get's more time right now.
- Jun 28 12:48:04 <maxwell> one is trying to create a next generation personal publishing platform
- Jun 28 12:48:12 <maxwell> and the other is the basis of its distrubution
- Jun 28 12:50:19 <bkeefe> so will D* end up sharing any of the code that Makr is getting?
- Jun 28 12:50:58 <DeadSuperHero> bkeefe, technically speaking, Makr already does share code with D*. ;)
- Jun 28 12:51:15 <maxwell> i think it is a possibility, there is some stuff that we fixed. a lot of the 'fixing' for some of the d* code is just ripping it out
- Jun 28 12:51:46 <maxwell> we realized that it was in nobodies interest to continue the radical changes as feature flags in the current code base
- Jun 28 12:51:50 <maxwell> causes too many bugs for everyone
- Jun 28 12:52:00 <maxwell> and doesn't help us make something simple and good
- Jun 28 12:52:07 <maxwell> versus something broad and shallow
- Jun 28 12:52:29 <bkeefe> makes sense.
- Jun 28 12:54:02 <bkeefe> how can the community help with Makr?
- Jun 28 12:54:51 <maxwell> well, the community can help diaspora if they want by trying to pull fixes out of it
- Jun 28 12:55:22 <maxwell> there are some decent refactorings of photos
- Jun 28 12:55:54 <maxwell> and some other things
- Jun 28 12:55:59 <maxwell> if someone was up to that
- Jun 28 12:56:06 <bkeefe> :)
- Jun 28 12:56:13 <maxwell> that would actually be huge
- Jun 28 12:56:22 <maxwell> but its a fair amount of work
- Jun 28 12:56:30 <maxwell> and would require someone pretty awesome and dedicated
- Jun 28 12:56:54 <maxwell> bkeefe: thanks for the question
- Jun 28 12:56:59 <maxwell> anyone else?
- Jun 28 12:57:04 <bkeefe> thanks for the answer!
- Jun 28 12:57:51 <maxwell> ok I need to go get myself some coffee from the store
- Jun 28 12:57:56 <DeadSuperHero> kk
- Jun 28 12:58:00 <maxwell> so email me maxwell@joindiaspora.com if you have any questions
- Jun 28 12:58:04 <DeadSuperHero> Thanks for coming everyone! :)
- Jun 28 12:58:09 <raven24> alright
- Jun 28 13:03:08 <SlackerD|2> no problem
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