Stefanie and the sins of Catholicism

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+ Stefanie  12:34:48
dolphino: nobody reports that this also happened in heretic churches at much higher rates
dolphino  12:35:34
Stefanie: There is no graphite on the ground
You didn't see it
https://www.vox.com/2018/8/15/17689994/catholic-sex-abuse-priest-crisis-pennsylvania-report
+ pela  12:35:46
[ Report: over 300 Pennsylvania Catholic priests committed child sex abuse - Vox ]
+ Hedrin  12:36:08
So anyhow - I have to drive up to Montreal on Sat. night
dolphino  12:36:09
That is in one state
There is an epidemic of kid raping in Catholicism
@ Godric  12:36:29
child abuse at other non-catholic chruches certain occured
BUT
+ NaughtyCanid  12:36:33
What what, is shirley temple still a thing?
@ Godric  12:36:48
the ammount of cover up that was orchistrated
dolphino  12:36:51
300 priests IN ONE STATE
This shit is an epidemic across the globe
And the highest leadership is complicit
+ Dreams2X  12:37:13
no..shes dead now
dolphino  12:37:15
The entire organization is rotten
The 3rd highest Catholic ON THE PLANET was a kid rapist
+ Stefanie  12:37:35
dolphino: https://www.dosp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018-08-17-Bishop-Parkes-Statement-to-be-read-at-Masses-this...
@ Godric  12:37:37
that is unique to rome
+ Stefanie  12:37:44
https://www.dosp.org/accountability/wp-content/uploads/sites/59/Letter-Oct-4-2018.pdf
@ Godric  12:37:46
the RCC
dolphino  12:37:47
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-47366113
+ Stefanie  12:37:55
http://st-raphaels.weebly.com/uploads/1/4/7/6/14769358/dosp_ppcva_rev_11-2009.pdf
dolphino  12:38:19
Stefanie: They just need to feel sorry for 50 years
Then, they'll earn my trust back
@ Godric  12:38:39
mainly because local churches are not part of a hydra of layers with a single head in charge of them all
+ NaughtyCanid  12:38:41
Godric: The RCC is the largest christian denomination by far, there are a billion Roman catholics.
@ Godric  12:38:47
they just all do their own thing
 ⓘ Debates has unbanned *!*mibbit*@*
+ Stefanie  12:38:59
dolphino: i'm sorry for every person who has been abused
dolphino  12:39:01
Stefanie: Your links show that *after* the priests got caught, other priests came forward saying they welcome the investigation
This means nothing
Everybody hates getting caught
Who caught them?
Non-catholics
+ Hedrin  12:39:29
HAIL HYDRA!
@ Godric  12:39:31
well
dolphino  12:39:36
Because the entire Catholic ideology is corrupt and prevented them from holding themself accountable
@ Godric  12:39:41
mainly journalists
+ Stefanie  12:39:45
dolphino: actually, the original report that broke in the Boston Globe was by several Catholics
@ BS_Lewis  12:39:47
I was raised by Catholic parents, went to Catholic schools, and I turned out GREAT.
dolphino  12:39:48
This is a well-known problem with humans, and why transparency and oversight have to be core values
Catholicism is incompatible with transparency and oversight
+ Stefanie  12:40:29
BS_Lewis: debatable :)
dolphino  12:40:34
They teach their leader directly talks to God
+ Stefanie  12:40:39
dolphino: that's not true
you're far off the mark
dolphino  12:41:07
Stefanie: Can you show me a time in the last 2000 years when you think Catholicism was good at transparency and oversight
Say, a 3 decade continuous period
The Catholic Church *has never been more moral than it is right now*
This is the zenith of their ethics and the nadir of their power
The Catholic Church has *always been worse than it currently is where 300 priests in one state were child rapists*
This will probably be too painful for you to accept, Stefanie
+ Stefanie  12:42:56
the Church is never perfect, to this day there are an extremely low percentage of priests that are accused
dolphino  12:43:01
Very few people can criticize their home faction
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@ BS_Lewis  12:43:14
Stefanie: dolphino just lobbed you a softball. Cite any publically funded Catholic community centre or school that must fall within that criteria.
dolphino  12:43:16
Our home faction operates as the ground from which we make all our other decisions
+ Dreams2X  12:43:19
 arguments with True Believers are seldom worthwhile...
+ Stefanie  12:43:20
dolphino: i think i accept it far more than you realise, i also know more about the internals of the Church than you realise
dolphino  12:43:21
Which is why Buddhism teaches there is no ground
BS_Lewis: That is a non sequitur
+ Hedrin  12:43:53
we know what the church knows the internals of
dolphino  12:44:01
hehe
+ Stefanie  12:44:03
BS_Lewis: he's just showing his own bigotry and hate about things he has no clue about
dolphino  12:44:23
http://alvinsoon.com/2016/pema-chodron-groundlessness/
+ pela  12:44:29
[ Standing on Groundlessness ]
dolphino  12:44:31
Stefanie: That's an ad hominem
@ BS_Lewis  12:44:49
dolphino: argument by fiat.
+ Stefanie  12:44:58
dolphino: you didn't read the documents i sent you did you?
dolphino  12:45:01
For the record, you didn't point out a time when the Catholic church was transparent and accountable
Stefanie: Those were apologies after the fact
That don't impress me much
+ Stefanie  12:45:21
dolphino: the church is always transparent and accountable
dolphino  12:45:24
I need 50 years of that, not a summer
+ Stefanie  12:45:30
dolphino: they weren't just apologies, they were calls to action
dolphino  12:45:37
Stefanie: An rbmk reactor cannot explode
@ BS_Lewis  12:45:40
Catholic school board of Ontario. transparent and accountable.
@ Godric  12:45:48
lol
+ airbag  12:45:51
does lania know he's talkingnto felber?
dolphino  12:45:53
Stefanie: Cool, let's observe them 50 years
+ Hedrin  12:46:02
You have to remember something which makes it even worse, Catholics don't want to hear about children being molested, so they make their kids think it's like the worst possible thing that could happen to them, and if the kid does have the guts to tell them, they blame the kid.
dolphino  12:46:07
If they follow through, I'll trust them again
@ BS_Lewis  12:46:25
Not a non-sequitur, as he never qualified what he meant by Catholicism.
+ Stefanie  12:46:26
dolphino: who does an accused priest face within the Church, and how is the criminality of their actions processed?
+ Hedrin  12:46:38
I know a guy who was molested by a priest, his family disowned him because of it.
dolphino  12:46:38
Catholicism is Latin for universal, BS_Lewis
@ BS_Lewis  12:46:48
dolphino: equivocation fallacy
dolphino  12:46:49
A single Catholic entity would be parochial, the opposite of catholic
+ Stefanie  12:46:52
it's not Latin, it's Greek
@ BS_Lewis  12:46:53
dolphino: that's two
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@ BS_Lewis  12:47:00
dolphino: one more logical fallacy and you're on ignore
XD
dolphino  12:47:32
Stefanie: Greek to Latin to English
https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&hs=lng&ei=tW35XMm6DMTK0PEPzNGagAM&q=catholic+etymology&oq...
+ pela  12:47:38
[ catholic etymology - Google Search ]
+ Hedrin  12:47:39
Hmmm..........what should I get for dinner tonight?
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@ BS_Lewis  12:47:47
carrots
+ Hedrin  12:47:47
winner winner chicken dinner
I have not had any red meat or pork since April
dolphino  12:48:08
BS_Lewis, I ended my engagement with you
+ Hedrin  12:48:15
chicken and fish only.
+ Stefanie  12:48:17
dolphino: did you know that abusers face a panel of victims in the Church? did you know the Church fully cooperates with law enforcement?
+ Hedrin  12:48:33
the fact you need an 'abuser panel' says a lot.
@ Godric  12:48:35
now they do maybe
+ Stefanie  12:48:41
this has been standard policy since 2002
+ Hedrin  12:48:48
What's an abuser panel, the thing the priest hides behind then her jerk your kid off?
dolphino  12:48:52
Stefanie: Catholicism very often did not cooperate with law enforcement
All the way since 2002!
That's like 17 whole years
Stefanie: You're a Catholic, so help me out with this one: There's a teaching in Catholicism that says it's independent of the legal systems of its host nations.
What's that policy called?
It was employed by Catholics for the last number of centuries
+ Stefanie  12:49:37
the Catholic Church has the lowest incidence of abuse of any public organisation in the world, and we continue to address the problem ... how have the public schools, healthcare, governments, state case workers that work with children answered?
@ Godric  12:49:49
oh boy
+ Hedrin  12:49:49
Catholics have gotten kid fuckers down to just somewhat of a inconvenience.
+ Stefanie  12:49:53
sexual abuse is a massive problem in USA, and it's not only within the Church
USA has one of the highest incidences of rape in the world
dolphino  12:50:11
Stefanie: We're talking about the Catholic church
Don't deflect to the sins of others
+ Stefanie  12:50:23
no, we're talking about sexual abuse
dolphino  12:50:26
This is the 50-year period where you have to redeem your group
+ Hedrin  12:50:31
Remember what the head of the catholic league says, if it's not penetration, it's not rape!
+ Stefanie  12:50:40
dolphino: by who's standard?
dolphino  12:50:43
You have to be humble and noble for 50-years and then you regain our trust
+ Stefanie  12:50:52
who is our?
dolphino  12:51:01
Stefanie: You have several open questions
+ Stefanie  12:51:06
why only for this amount of arbitrary time?
you're just a bigot spreading your hate and lies
dolphino  12:51:27
How very humble and noble of you, Catholic
+ Stefanie  12:51:32
dolphino: you have 20 open questions
dolphino  12:51:48
You're really reedeming your institution
All the way since 2002, Stefanie!
+ Hedrin  12:52:08
The problem with the catholic church isn't the peophile priests, they are sick, they can't help themselves. The problem is with those who know what's going on and refuse to act on it.
dolphino  12:52:08
Also, it's not since 2002
It was another lie, room
+ Stefanie  12:52:23
dolphino: it doesn't matter what i say, you're so filled with hate you wouldn't listen to statistics or reason no matter how much i've given it you
dolphino  12:52:40
The Catholic Church made major modifications to being held accountable to the legal systems of their host nation as recently as 2015
Stefanie: It's my fault
+ Stefanie  12:52:58
dolphino: and continues to do so
dolphino  12:53:10
I won't let you Catholics redeem yourself over 18 months for centuries of kid raping
It's so unfair
You guys are the victim, honestly
+ Stefanie  12:53:31
those policies will be updated as often as needed to address the problem
dolphino  12:53:42
As they get held accountable by non-Catholics
+ Stefanie  12:53:49
yes i am a victim of abusive priests, and i'm furiously angry at them
dolphino  12:54:05
I agree that as non-Catholics continue to reveal the embarrassing truth about how Catholic priests behave, there will be some reform
+ Stefanie  12:54:05
and if i caught a priest i'd yank his collar from his neck and throw him out of the Church myself
dolphino  12:54:09
Nobody likes being embarrassed
+ Stefanie  12:54:28
dolphino: again, you're so full of hate you're applying your own ideas about something you have no clue about
dolphino  12:54:31
Also, Catholics have lost a lot of money and power as a result of this scandal
And we can't have that
Testimonials from kids who were raped was enough, but money, shame, and power was enough
You know, noble stuff
+ Hedrin  12:55:16
Religion is such a waste of time.
dolphino  12:55:20
Agreed
+ Stefanie  12:55:38
dolphino: children have a higher probability of being raped in a public school than a Catholic school
that's a pretty serious problem
but you clearly don't care about that
dolphino  12:56:16
Very noble
+ Stefanie  12:56:20
BS_Lewis: sure, that'd be a good start
dolphino  12:56:47
Stefanie: I've read the New Testament four times. I'd like to offer you advice on how to handle this situation
1. It's going to be hard
+ Hedrin  12:57:02
What I find interesting is that someone would come  up   with that statistic to defend sex abuse in the church.
dolphino  12:57:04
2. Be humble and act noblely
+ Stefanie  12:57:12
dolphino: i'm not taking any advice from a clear bigot
dolphino  12:57:28
You're required to
As I am a child of God
+ Hedrin  12:57:31
Maybe kids in Catholic school have been better trained to shut up about being raped?
dolphino  12:57:38
And you are to love me as you love yourself
You're also to be slow to anger and quick to forgive
+ Stefanie  12:57:58
Hedrin: that statistic is *important*, our work has purified the Church and continues to do so
unlike dolphino we're addressing the problem head on
dolphino  12:58:11
If you can do these things, even just you and me, then Jesus will be there also
Stefanie: Do you feel your demonstrating any qualities of Jesus currently
you're*
+ Hedrin  12:58:40
I think we should move on.
+ Stefanie  12:58:47
dolphino: do you?
+ Hedrin  12:58:50
This convo is headed nowhere.
@ Godric  12:58:54
the RCC spent years denying child abuse accusations untill the BG report
dolphino  12:58:59
Stefanie: Don't deflect
+ Stefanie  12:59:16
dolphino: yes i am, i'm part of the solution. how about you?
dolphino  12:59:20
Stefanie: You're a follow of Christ. Do you think you're demonstrating any qualities of Christ?
Stefanie: Which values
Stefanie: You are commanded to be slow to anger
That is your job
+ Hedrin  12:59:52
I bought a really cool guitar - a Hamer Vector
dolphino  12:59:53
You are commanded to be quick to forgive
That is your job
@ Godric  13:00:10
laina cool it
+ Stefanie  13:00:11
dolphino: i'm not angry and what am i forgiving? some vitriol and hate? i don't care, that hurts you not me
 ⓘ brad70 takes voice from Stefanie
dolphino  13:00:26
You are commanded to love me
+ Hedrin  13:00:30
Fucking Awesome - https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--zH2MOCJ---/a_exif,c_limit,e_unsharp_mask:80,f_auto,fl_prog...
 ⓘ brad70 gives voice to dolphino, doomed, Dreams2X
ⓘ brad70 gives voice to euphony2, Futilitarian, jcp
+ Stefanie  13:00:50
dolphino: why don't you return the same consideration i've shown you?
dolphino  13:00:51
Moderators: Please voice Stefanie
I have shown you some consideration
 ⓘ brad70 gives voice to MadCatX, NaughtyCanid, NeXTSUN
+ Stefanie  13:01:12
you've shown me none, you've only attacked me
dolphino  13:01:13
Stefanie: I am failing, too
 ⓘ brad70 takes voice from dolphino
ⓘ brad70 sets +m on #debates
dolphino  13:01:26
I am failing the Buddhist standard

...

(In PM, I apologized to Stefanie -- there was no response)

...

+ dolphino  13:04:05
Stefanie: Are you here
+ Stefanie  13:04:17
yes
dolphino: you shouldn't be so judgemental and hateful
+ dolphino  13:04:28
Did you see my PM
+ Stefanie  13:04:34
your hate will only consume you
 ⓘ QST sets +l 43 on #Christiandebate
+ Stefanie  13:05:39
anyway, i've done all i can to help you
+ dolphino  13:05:59
Thank you
+ GrandApe  13:06:25
https://youtu.be/gU2lLUycLjo
+ dolphino  13:06:29
May you be happy. May you be well. May you be peaceful. May you be free.
+ Fen  13:06:44
tzipsaway told me that the more people I hate, the more rewards I get in heaven. So I hate women, liberals, homosexuals, immigrants, etc. :-P
+ dolphino  13:06:54
For the hurt I caused you, I ask for forgiveness
For the hurt you caused me, I extend my forgiveness