Chat with o`puck on 'political correctness'

o`puck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN0ctpClWGk You need to listen to all of it.
09:22:36 AlexJones
inside job
09:22:47 TumblingReverie
Why, o`puck
09:23:57 o`puck
His analysis and comparison of how leftist msm media treat White Supremacy terrorist attacks v. how they treat radical Islamist terrorist attacks is right on the money
09:24:11 o`puck
food for thought
09:24:18 TumblingReverie
I find Ben Shapiro interesting.
09:24:28 TumblingReverie
He's clearly quite intelligent, and has some analysis I find interesting.
09:24:38 TumblingReverie
I also find some of his content pretty silly.
09:24:45 TumblingReverie
His position on transgenderism, for example.
09:24:51 Mabus
shaprio is a creationist
09:24:54 Mabus
just sayin
09:25:03 TumblingReverie
He describes it as a mental illness, which the medical community disagrees with.
09:25:07 TumblingReverie
Is he?
09:25:10 TumblingReverie
That's shocking.
09:25:10 Mabus
he is
09:25:28 Mabus
oh wait
09:25:33 Mabus
no not him
09:25:46 o`puck
*facepalm*
09:25:46 Mabus
are you smarter than.... what the guys name
09:25:49 TumblingReverie
Yeah, I found a tweet of him saying evolution is compatible with the Bible.
09:25:53 NaughtyCanid
Fake news!
09:25:57 TumblingReverie
https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/565901425385807872?lang=en
09:26:01 TumblingReverie
Which it is not.
09:26:04 NaughtyCanid
Mabus is a russian lizard troll! MAGA!
09:26:10 TumblingReverie
But theistic evolution is obviously not too objectionable.
09:26:58 TumblingReverie
The psychological compulsion I've seen Ben Shapiro have towards saying 'sir' to transgender females is revealing of emotional/social dysfunction, in my opinion
09:27:17 TumblingReverie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria
09:27:22 Mabus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP0mQeLWCCo
09:27:24 Mabus
this guy
09:27:37 NaughtyCanid
Ben stein
09:27:39 TumblingReverie
The American Psychiatric Association, publisher of the DSM-5, states that "gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition."[10]
09:27:41 Mabus
thats him
09:27:43 Mabus
ben stein
09:27:54 Mabus
stein shapiro
09:27:56 Mabus
its all the same
09:28:01 Mabus
they begin with an s
09:28:03 TumblingReverie
The medical community states transgenderism is not a mental illness -- only the distress association with it is a mental health disorder
09:28:06 NaughtyCanid
Rascist
09:28:13 TumblingReverie
Presumably as a result of the attitudes of society
09:28:20 TumblingReverie
Ben Stein is a moron in most ways
09:28:27 TumblingReverie
Though, there is evidence he has a very high IQ
09:28:32 o`puck
I'm not going to psychoanalyze, that's odious. I don't agree with Ben Shapiro on a lot of things. I tend to agree with him on his resistance toward academic left, political correctness, social warriorism, BLM, etc. not on economic issues or gun laws, or abortion.
09:29:23 o`puck
But he seems intellectually honest.
09:29:23 TumblingReverie
o`puck, in debates, he has chosen to insist on repeatedly saying 'sir' at a statistically unusual rate, for his baseline, to transgender females.
09:29:29 TumblingReverie
That can be discussed.
09:29:41 TumblingReverie
I agree that he is generally intellectually honest
09:29:45 DofTD
Yeah, I'm tired of people being too PC and their attempt to eradicate certain words from our lexicon.  I miss calling my neighbors wetbacks, ya know?   Those were the days.
09:30:12 TumblingReverie
o`puck, I suspect social warriorism -- a pejorative -- is significantly overblown
09:30:23 TumblingReverie
We have seen with these Russian ads that they are constantly pushing that topic
09:30:29 TumblingReverie
Because it promotes civil strife
09:30:52 TumblingReverie
I am a member of the left. I am one of the strongest defenders of free speech you'll ever encounter. Yes, the left has some elements that are very hostile to free speech.
09:30:59 TumblingReverie
On the whole, the right is far, far, far more hostile to free speech
09:31:08 TumblingReverie
Which is obvious, as right-wing authoritarianism is a major cognitive element of the right
09:31:22 TumblingReverie
And right-wing authoritarianism has a core aspect of 'do not question the authority'
09:31:29 TumblingReverie
This is essentially incompatible with the notion of free speech
09:32:26 TumblingReverie
Many right-wing sources are constantly focused on those leftist elements on college campuses that are extremely hostile to the foundations of liberalism
09:32:26 DofTD
Is it a waste of time even complaining about those trying to "take away free speech"?   Cuz, I'm tired of Obama and the government trying to stifle my voice!
09:32:34 TumblingReverie
That focus is probably extremely biased
09:32:49
← AlexJones ([email protected]) has left (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
09:32:51 TumblingReverie
Political correctness is a term invented by the right, o`puck
09:32:53 TumblingReverie
Are you aware of that?
09:33:05 DofTD
TumblingReverie: why does the right constantly demean higher education?
09:33:06 o`puck
No.
09:33:12 TumblingReverie
It's largely a linguistic attempt to criticize positions without argumentation
09:33:15 TumblingReverie
It's actually value signaling
09:33:36 TumblingReverie
Now, every culture has rules about language, which we can call political correctness
09:33:38 TumblingReverie
Yes, the left has that
09:33:40 TumblingReverie
Yes, the right has that
09:33:50 TumblingReverie
Again, the right has *more* political correctness as they are an authoritarian culture
09:34:05 TumblingReverie
The contemporary usage of the term emerged from conservative criticism of the New Left in the late Twentieth Century. The phrase was widely used in the debate about Allan Bloom's 1987 book The Closing of the American Mind,[7][9][12][13] and gained further currency in response to Roger Kimball's Tenured Radicals (1990),[7][9][14][15] and conservative author Dinesh D'Souza's 1991 book Illiberal Education, in which he condemned what he saw as liberal efforts to advance self-victimization and multiculturalism through language, affirmative action, and changes to the content of school and university curricula.[7][8][14][16] The term was also the subject of articles in The New York Times and other media throughout the 1990s.[17][18][19][20][21][22]
09:34:05 TumblingReverie
09:34:21 DofTD
I'm yet to meet *one* person whose 1st amendment rights were violated.   zzzzzzzzzzzz
09:34:27 o`puck
No I don't think it is. What more is there to say. I can see we will not agree on this. Suffice to say, I believe pol. corr. describes something destructive in society, a kind of authoritarianism and silencing of free speech
09:34:57 o`puck
to say that it's a propaganda prop is ridiculous.
09:34:59 o`puck
imo
09:35:00
→ AlexJones ([email protected]) has joined
09:35:07
ⓘ Mabus set +v AlexJones
09:35:19 DofTD
shoegazer: next you'll tell me that Obama *didn't* take away their guns!
09:35:27
← AlexJones ([email protected]) has left (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
09:35:41 TumblingReverie
o`puck, I just provided a citation with about 12 references
09:35:52 DofTD
So, when someone devoices me on #debates, shoegazer, it's NOT a violation of my Rights?   huh?
09:35:52 TumblingReverie
Yes, the term 'political correctness' was literally created by the American right
09:35:57 TumblingReverie
It's an indisputable point
09:36:00
→ weirdo ([email protected]) has joined
09:36:05
ⓘ Mabus set +v weirdo
09:36:11 TumblingReverie
The term "politically correct" was used infrequently until the latter part of the 20th century. This earlier use did not communicate the social disapproval usually implied in more recent usage. In 1793, the term "politically correct" appeared in a U.S. Supreme Court judgment of a political lawsuit.[29] The term also had use in other English-speaking countries in the 1800s.[30] William Safire states that the first recorded use of the term in the typical modern sense is by Toni Cade Bambara in the 1970 anthology The Black Woman.[31][clarification needed] The term probably entered use in the United Kingdom around 1975.[11][clarification needed]
09:36:11 TumblingReverie
09:36:40
→ Veralis ([email protected]) has joined
09:36:47 NaughtyCanid
Your rights in this channel are at Mabus's whim.
09:36:49
ⓘ Mabus set +v Veralis
09:36:53 TumblingReverie
The previously obscure far-left term became common currency in the lexicon of the conservative social and political challenges against progressive teaching methods and curriculum changes in the secondary schools and universities of the U.S.[8][44] Policies, behavior, and speech codes that the speaker or the writer regarded as being the imposition of a liberal orthodoxy, were described and criticized as "politically correct".[14] In May 1991, at a commencement ceremony for a graduating class of the University of Michigan, then U.S. President George H.W. Bush used the term in his speech: "The notion of political correctness has ignited controversy across the land. And although the movement arises from the laudable desire to sweep away the debris of racism and sexism and hatred, it replaces old prejudice with new ones. It declares certain topics off-limits, certain expression off-limits, even certain gestures off-limits."[45]
09:36:53 TumblingReverie
09:37:01
ⓘ weirdo is now known as Guest52327
09:37:03
ⓘ Guest52327 is now known as DanJones
09:37:22 TumblingReverie
o`puck, are you aware many Russian ads promoted criticism of Black Lives Matter?
09:37:27 TumblingReverie
Do you know what is?
09:37:31 DofTD
shoegazer: I'm learning so much today.   Thank you.
09:37:32 TumblingReverie
Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."[8]
09:37:32 TumblingReverie
09:37:36 TumblingReverie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
09:37:55 TumblingReverie
It is because promotion of civil strife, especially with 'Afro-American racists' is one of the primary ways to destabilize the USA
09:38:17 NaughtyCanid
Your 1st ammendment rights or not do not apply here.  But I am sure you can complain to the canadian should he take your voice away.
09:38:17 TumblingReverie
Likely, much of what you have consumed on BLM is actually propaganda initiated by Russia and picked up by the American Right
09:38:37 TumblingReverie
That is, there is a high chance a lot of what you think is true about BLM is actually just lies
09:38:53 DofTD
Wait, TumblingReverie, Russia has the Internet now?
09:39:01 TumblingReverie
I agree there are issues with the academic left
09:39:23 TumblingReverie
Again, I am on the left, and I think reality generally is more consistent with the left's worldview, but there are problems with cognitive homogeneity
09:39:28 TumblingReverie
Which we do see in academia
09:39:34 o`puck
TumblingReverie: Irrelevant. I focus on what it denotes, or how I perceive it. As I see it, political correctness is essentially a prevailing ideology which creates a fear to express views that goes against received opinion, because people punish each other socially. Thus pol. corr. is a much wider phenomenon, and its mechanism operate in all contexts where there is a social cost associated with disagreeing with dogma
09:39:41 TumblingReverie
There are a number of reasons for this, but one of them is discriminatory attitudes by the academic left
09:39:59
ⓘ DanJones is now known as RightWing
09:40:06 TumblingReverie
o`puck, I agree that communities regulate what can be said
09:40:14 TumblingReverie
This is not unique to the left
09:40:23 TumblingReverie
Again, the right regulates what can be said much, much, much more
09:40:27 TumblingReverie
As they are an authoritarian culture
09:40:42 TumblingReverie
o`puck, what do you think are the three best examples of 'political correctness' for America as a nation
09:41:00 TumblingReverie
I can provide to you 20 examples of political correctness on the right, if you'd like
09:41:08 TumblingReverie
And I don't mean 'a lot'. I meant 20
09:41:45 o`puck
Well, I'm saying it is a universal phenomenon. And it's destructive.
09:41:50 TumblingReverie
Agreed
09:41:58 TumblingReverie
It's one of the primary criticisms I have of most cultures
09:42:10 TumblingReverie
Mabus has kicked me repeatedly for saying the phrase 'child sexual assault'
09:42:26 TumblingReverie
Even if you say something like 'legal experts and physicians differentiate between pedophilia and child sexual assault'
09:42:27 NaughtyCanid
Gee I wonder why
09:42:31 TumblingReverie
He just freaks out
09:42:49 TumblingReverie
NaughtyCanid, because he's not a philosopher and has intense emotional reactions he can't contorl
09:43:13 TumblingReverie
I'd like you to provide a few examples of political correctness on the left that you think are harmful, o`puck
09:43:18 TumblingReverie
I'll provide my 20 examples
09:43:28 TumblingReverie
1 - Calling respect for different groups 'political correctness'
09:43:44 TumblingReverie
2 - Family values for Christian ideology
09:43:49 NaughtyCanid
I get kicked all the time for calling americans idiots.  I understand completely because I am not a dishonest shitbag.
09:43:54 TumblingReverie
3 - 'Family values' for anti-LGBT sentiment
09:44:14 NaughtyCanid
Maybe grow up and admit the real reason you were kicked TumblingReverie
09:44:20 DofTD
NaughtyCanid: maybe you get kicked for not being clear.   Central Americans?   Southern Americans?
09:44:22 TumblingReverie
4 - 'States rights' for discrimination in contradiction to the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection Clause
09:44:37 NaughtyCanid
DofTD: Yes.
09:44:49 TumblingReverie
NaughtyCanid, I put you on ignore.
09:44:49 RightWing
use pastebin for your list
09:44:54 TumblingReverie
Reason: You're too dumb for me.
09:45:18 TumblingReverie
5 - 'Patriot' for Republican leadership which violates the Constitution
09:45:31 TumblingReverie
6 - 'Freedom fries'
09:45:39 DofTD
NaughtyCanid: see, there's a North, Central AND South America.
09:46:33 DofTD
NaughtyCanid: just go meta and call people idiots.   Makes it easier.
09:46:36 o`puck
No. I don't think specific examples of pol. corr. will show anything. The general definition will do just fine. It's not hard to imagine concrete situations when people become authoritarian, emotional, and try to shut down dialogue. This is pol. corr. It's the antithesis of scientific inquiry. I don't think anything good will come from political activists sorting among scientific facts and giving their stamp of approval. Truth
09:46:36 o`puck
shall always be exposed, and we should respond to facts.
09:47:03 DofTD
NaughtyCanid: stop being so geocentric and try to see The Bigger Picture.
09:47:09 o`puck
thus, we should have all the debates about Race and Intelligence etc. openly allow them to run their course and let the chips fall where they may etc.
09:47:30 o`puck
rather than censure this because some believe this is better.
09:48:05 o`puck
I don't think censuring truth and facts is ever the right course of action. And I've given this a lot of thought. It's just not some lazy principle that I use to simplify
09:48:43 TumblingReverie
7 - 'Real Americans' for Americans in the midwest
09:49:01 TumblingReverie
o`puck, I think that phenomenon is one of the most important to remove from our society, but I don't like calling it political correctness
09:49:23 TumblingReverie
8 - Homicide bombing
09:49:23 DofTD
shoegazer: but my rights are slowly eroding because I cannot use the N-word at the public library when asking for help, right?  Those socialist libraries are govt run and they're trampling on my rights!
09:50:37 TumblingReverie
9 - Enhanced interrogation techniques
09:50:57 TumblingReverie
10 - Clean coal
09:51:05 TumblingReverie
11 - Pro-life
09:51:26 TumblingReverie
12 - Thug
09:51:32 TumblingReverie
13 - Anchor baby
09:51:47 TumblingReverie
14 - War on Terror
09:51:50 TumblingReverie
15 - War on Christianity
09:52:12 DofTD
16 - War on Christmas
09:52:16 DofTD
(can't wait for that one)
09:52:24 TumblingReverie
Yes
09:52:58 TumblingReverie
17 - Free market, when it is describing corporate control of the state
09:53:12 Mabus
tumbling, knock it off
09:53:17 Mabus
thats your only warning
09:53:22 TumblingReverie
Mabus, I put you on ignore.
09:53:32 TumblingReverie
Reason: Giving warnings
09:53:33 RightWing
Wait a second, aren't liberals the ones that want political correctness.
09:53:50 DofTD
Freeze Peach was the princess in the Mario games, right, NaughtyCanid ?
09:54:15 TumblingReverie
18 - Entitlements to describe social welfare programs
09:54:22
ⓘ Mabus set -v TumblingReverie
09:54:25 TumblingReverie
19 - Cultural Marxism
09:54:25
Cannot send to channel
09:54:35 TumblingReverie
20 - Liberal media