05:26:48: <DTryPleX> If you don't plan on actually doing the things you promised to do. I have to ask you to leave.
05:27:32: <Treize-kun> I told you in the beginning that I'd only time if I was editing, and you agreed to that.
05:27:50: <DTryPleX> And you refuse to edit simply because it's not 100% going how you want to.
05:28:16: <DTryPleX> I don't even complain anymore when you change things to localize it
05:29:37: <DTryPleX> You pick up AnK because you told me you'd edit and time if necessary. Suddenly you apparently think things have dramatically changed and we now have different ways of doing things
05:29:40: <DTryPleX> and you say you won't do it
05:29:44: <DTryPleX> What do you expect me to do?
05:30:01: <DTryPleX> Accept it, move on and pretend I have the staff to cover those positions?
05:30:03: <DTryPleX> I don't.
05:30:25: <DTryPleX> We pick up*
05:31:12: <Treize-kun> I think this has been blown out of proportion. I'll time/edit and leave eastern name order. I don't care anymore. <_<
05:31:49: <DTryPleX> Aren't you the one who said you won't time edit because of it?
05:31:58: <DTryPleX> +and
05:32:47: <DTryPleX> You don't have to edit/time IxB since you didn't sign up for it, although we did pick it up because you (and krow) liked it and wanted to do it.
05:32:58: <DTryPleX> But I don't see the problem with AnK. That's all.
05:33:09: <Treize-kun> I don't know. I think it's up to whoever does the job to have the final say in what should be done.
05:33:27: <DTryPleX> If we did that, we'd have different styles for every series
05:33:30: <DTryPleX> and every episode
05:33:47: <DTryPleX> If you're not available, and Jak edits, then what?
05:33:56: <DTryPleX> The name order is suddenly reversed.
05:34:21: <DTryPleX> There's just some stuff that's set as a standard, and it can't be what everyone wants.
05:34:32: <Treize-kun> There're should be a main staff for each show. I don't want to work on a show if the staff is going to change each ep.
05:34:33: <DTryPleX> I also want to use Ka-san or Oka-san instead of Mom or mother
05:34:43: <DTryPleX> but I can't
05:34:47: <DTryPleX> because we've set rules for it
05:34:53: <DTryPleX> It's not that easy.
05:35:02: <DTryPleX> We've long ago determined we can't set 1 person to do 1 thing.
05:35:09: <DTryPleX> RL isn't kind enough for that.
05:35:38: <DTryPleX> in 2 weeks, weren't you going to be really busy and didn't have time to time and only just to edit?
05:35:48: <Treize-kun> I think it should stick to the main staff's style if something comes up.
05:35:52: <DTryPleX> You expect me to sit around and wait until you do have time, delaying our release for an unknown time?
05:35:57: <Treize-kun> and someone else needs to fill in.
05:36:16: <Treize-kun> That's what I've done.
05:36:36: <DTryPleX> We just have some minor rules that are set. I don't like some of them, and you don't like some of them.
05:36:43: <DTryPleX> I try to stick with the main staff as much as possible
05:36:47: <DTryPleX> but it's just not always that easy.
05:37:27: <DTryPleX> And I have to be the bad guy and yell at you and everyone else because of it.
05:37:49: <Treize-kun> I think it's stupid to work on something if you can't do it the way you want to.
05:38:03: <DTryPleX> You can do whatever you want
05:38:08: <DTryPleX> there's just 1% of it all
05:38:14: <DTryPleX> that has a group-standard
05:38:21: <DTryPleX> name order is one of them
05:38:24: <DTryPleX> honorifics is another
05:38:45: <DTryPleX> American editing is one too
05:39:01: <Treize-kun> this is the reason why I quit last time.
05:39:07: <DTryPleX> If we did things how I wanted to, everything would be literal and I'd preserve as much Jap as possible.
05:39:16: <DTryPleX> If we did things how you want, the Jap would nearly be gone.
05:39:24: <DTryPleX> At least, like this, we have a nice balance
05:39:34: <Treize-kun> If you've worked on something, I may have disagreed, but you've always gotten the final say. I think it should be the same way with all the jobs.
05:39:55: <DTryPleX> It's because SOMEONE has to set the rules. That someone just happens to be me.
05:40:09: <DTryPleX> I make concessions too, you know.
05:40:19: <Treize-kun> Why should you get to decide on all the standards for the group?
05:40:27: <DTryPleX> Because someone has to.
05:40:47: <DTryPleX> Besides, I'm the one who took all the bureaucratic shit on him when we started.
05:41:08: <DTryPleX> So during R-15, we've come up with stuff
05:41:14: <DTryPleX> and I've implemented those as group standards
05:41:20: <DTryPleX> I don't see what's so strange about that
05:41:35: <Treize-kun> I think if you determine all the standards, you should do everything to enforce them, then.
05:41:50: <DTryPleX> You're also the only one who ever says anything about me "making all the decisions"
05:42:10: <DTryPleX> And what do you mean?
05:42:38: <Treize-kun> maybe because I'm the only one who works in other groups and knows that this isn't the normal. <_<
05:42:53: <DTryPleX> That's bs
05:43:02: <DTryPleX> I worked in Hiryuu and Hadena too remember
05:43:07: <DTryPleX> airen works in other groups
05:43:09: <DTryPleX> D4rk does
05:43:11: <DTryPleX> himie does
05:43:32: <Treize-kun> all I know is that in every other group I work in, the person who does the job has final say in how things are done.
05:43:45: <DTryPleX> Hiryuu works the same. fibi takes in the general opinion and in the end makes the decisions on how things are done.
05:43:54: <DTryPleX> That's stupid.
05:44:00: <DTryPleX> So I can TL everything how I want
05:44:06: <DTryPleX> you change it how you want during edit
05:44:11: <DTryPleX> and the QC changes it how he wants
05:44:31: <DTryPleX> And everything is changed and there's no standard for shows either
05:44:36: <DTryPleX> Jak edits his way and you edit your way
05:44:41: <Treize-kun> everything except QC. Usually the QC has to stick to the others' standards.
05:44:58: <DTryPleX> So what makes the editor better than the TL or TLC?
05:45:18: <DTryPleX> You're basically saying the editor can do w/e the fuck he wants
05:45:25: <Treize-kun> If the editor is better than the TL or TLC in English, then he shouldn't be editor. lol
05:45:56: <DTryPleX> That doesn't mean you can just change w/e a TL has done as you like it.
05:46:04: <Treize-kun> I think the editor shouldn't be able to change the meaning of the sentences, but he should get to decide how they're worded in English.
05:46:24: <Treize-kun> because that is the editor's job. <_<
05:46:43: <DTryPleX> We developed group standards to keep things consistant and to generally please everyone
05:46:50: <DTryPleX> yet you're the only one who wants to do how you want to do it
05:46:53: <DTryPleX> no matter what
05:47:32: <DTryPleX> I get that you're better at English than me or isa or w/e but that doesn't mean you can just go and make our subs the way you want
05:47:36: <DTryPleX> we all worked on them
05:47:40: <DTryPleX> and put many hours in them
05:48:03: <DTryPleX> We all get a say in them. We all worked on them after all.
05:48:35: <DTryPleX> I don't see what's strange about that at all?
05:49:14: <Treize-kun> Yeah, I think if the meaning has been changed, the TL should obviously get the final say in that the TL of the line is wrong, but I don't think he should be able to say what sounds better or is more correct with the style of the English.
05:49:40: <Treize-kun> The TL may as well edit if he wants to keep all his lines the same.
05:50:02: <Treize-kun> obviously the TL thinks that all his lines are right, or he wouldn't have put them.
05:50:02: <DTryPleX> That's total bs
05:50:13: <DTryPleX> you're making it seem like I'm telling you how to edit the script completely
05:50:30: <DTryPleX> There's just name order, honorifics and certain Japanese names
05:50:35: <DTryPleX> NOTHING else
05:51:24: <Treize-kun> It's like this with everything, though. You always get the final say. I don't think you alone should get final say in everything. I think whoever did the work should get the say in the end.
05:51:46: <DTryPleX> How do I always get the final say?
05:51:59: <DTryPleX> How about the shows we picked. I listen to everyone
05:52:03: <DTryPleX> yet if I all let you do w/e you want
05:52:06: <DTryPleX> we NEVER pick a show
05:52:12: <DTryPleX> everyone wants to do something else
05:52:19: <DTryPleX> so i take everyone's opinion and see what's the best choice
05:52:23: <DTryPleX> it's what a leader does
05:52:27: <Treize-kun> lol
05:52:28: <DTryPleX> same goes for editing
05:53:01: <DTryPleX> same goes for the way credits are made even
05:53:28: <Treize-kun> Remember when you said that we were doing Papakiki instead of any other show because you wanted to do it, and we're all replaceable?
05:53:42: <Treize-kun> I said we should have a vote to see what the majority wanted to do, and you denied it.
05:54:37: <DTryPleX> Are you serious? This again? We ended up coming to a compromise doing both even though that meant double the work for me and not for anyone else.
05:54:54: <DTryPleX> Things didn't turn out how we wanted to, but that was out of my hands.
05:55:38: <Treize-kun> or even with something smaller like the font for HnG. We decided on fonts, and then I conceded letting you pick the font for then end because others agreed, and we agreed that I'd pick the font for the op even though I did pretty much all the work for both.
05:56:14: <Treize-kun> you didn't even translate it.
05:56:28: <DTryPleX> I concede there. I shouldn't have changed to font.
05:56:33: <DTryPleX> OMFG
05:56:39: <DTryPleX> You know how FUCKING long I worked on that thing?!
05:57:14: <Treize-kun> You know how FUCKING long I work on things?! I can guarantee you that I put more time into some of these releases than you.
05:57:50: <DTryPleX> What has that got to do with this?
05:57:56: <Treize-kun> inu boku for example. I've spent hours trying to time and edit this thing, and you haven't done anything for it. Even for AnK, if I time and edit it will take longer than you TLCing a CR script.
05:58:15: <DTryPleX> for AnK, I'm the one who's fixing the CR script
05:58:18: <DTryPleX> I'm k-timing
05:58:21: <DTryPleX> I'm adjusting the TS every ep
05:58:28: <DTryPleX> I'm telling everyone what to do and stick to a schedule
05:58:29: <Treize-kun> even for HnG, I guarantee I spent more time on it than you.
05:58:32: <DTryPleX> I'm the one who releases it
05:58:38: <DTryPleX> I'm the one who makes the site post
05:58:53: <DTryPleX> this is a TEAM project
05:59:06: <DTryPleX> EVERYONE spends loads of time on it
05:59:11: <DTryPleX> so EVERYONE gets a say
05:59:26: <DTryPleX> If I change the font for HnG, fine. Sorry. I shouldn't have.
05:59:29: <DTryPleX> But other than that
05:59:31: <DTryPleX> it's BULLSHIT
06:00:40: <DTryPleX> We can't do whatever you want to do. We can't do whatever I want to do.
06:01:22: <Treize-kun> I don't know. I've been working with that whoever does the job gets final decision. If I don't get the same kind of respect, I don't really want to do the work.
06:01:46: <DTryPleX> We do it as a team. We incorporate what everyone likes and get the end result.
06:01:51: <Treize-kun> There have been times when I've disagreed with things and left them because I was only QC.
06:02:03: <DTryPleX> If you don't like that, you shouldn't be in Zenyaku.
06:06:15: <Treize-kun> I mean hoenstly, if I'm going to do most of the work, I might as well edit the cr script myself and release. I don't think it's right for someone to do most of the work for something and not be able to do it how they want.
06:06:17: <DTryPleX> "Demoting" yourself, as you make it out to be, won't change that this is how we do things. And we're not the only ones. I just enforce the standard more.
06:06:37: <DTryPleX> There you go again
06:06:46: <DTryPleX> "Someone who does most of the work"
06:06:57: <DTryPleX> I spend entire days on these releases too, who cares?!
06:07:08: <DTryPleX> airen spends hours TSing things now too
06:07:15: <DTryPleX> and Krow spends hours every week to QC too
06:07:31: <DTryPleX> everyone works hard on these releases, one more than the other, I admit. But everyone has a say.
06:07:58: <Treize-kun> Yeah, and I don't tell airen how she has to put her signs or tell you how you have to translate.
06:08:34: <DTryPleX> But I do.
06:08:51: <DTryPleX> If she does something that doesn't fit the group standards
06:08:53: <DTryPleX> I tell her too
06:08:57: <DTryPleX> and she'll change it.
06:09:02: <DTryPleX> Ask her for all I care.
06:09:09: <DTryPleX> And no you don't tell me how to TL
06:09:16: <DTryPleX> but you can change it however you want
06:09:19: <DTryPleX> so there's no need.
06:09:21: <Treize-kun> see, that's what I'm saying. You don't do the work, but you still tell people exactly how it has to be. You may as well do it yourself that way.
06:09:39: <DTryPleX> Even if I didn't do what you want, as editor, you're saying you can change it however u want anyway
06:09:52: <DTryPleX> because I have to enforce the group standard
06:10:00: <DTryPleX> not because that's how I want it.
06:10:26: <Treize-kun> I try really hard not to change the translation when I edit. I may change the wording to make it sound better to me, but that should be it.
06:10:53: <Treize-kun> If you see that I change the meaning of your translation, I'd like to know about it.
06:10:56: <Treize-kun> say
06:11:30: <Treize-kun> again, there have been times when I've disagreed with your translation, but I've left it because you're the tl.
06:11:56: <DTryPleX> Yet I TL in Japanese name order
06:11:59: <DTryPleX> and you see fit to change that?
06:12:15: <DTryPleX> It's that it was isa that TLd it like that
06:12:23: <DTryPleX> but on AnK I changed all of it as the TL.
06:12:28: <Treize-kun> is there a difference in meaning between which name goes first?
06:12:58: <DTryPleX> It's a matter of culture and respect in Japanese.
06:13:07: <DTryPleX> Saying it the other way around in subs DOES change the meaning
06:13:23: <DTryPleX> and even if it doesn't, that doesn't give you the right to do w/e u want ust because it fits English better
06:13:29: <DTryPleX> just*
06:14:01: <Treize-kun> if you don't want it to sound good in English, you may as well do a literal word by word translation, then.
06:14:20: <DTryPleX> Again, as a team we've decided on a standard for things like these and they're not up for individual discussion.
06:14:41: <DTryPleX> If I wanted literal TLs we wouldn't need an editor
06:14:41: <Treize-kun> what team? I've never gotten a say in any of this.
06:14:57: <DTryPleX> It's how we did things in both R-15, any OVA, any movie and Mashiro
06:15:03: <DTryPleX> there's never been complaints to change it
06:15:13: <DTryPleX> so that's how the standard came to be
06:15:17: <DTryPleX> It's what everyone assumed as normal
06:15:19: <DTryPleX> and it became normal.
06:15:21: <Treize-kun> yeah, because I've been QC for those, and have trusted in the editor's style.
06:15:31: <DTryPleX> You edited Mashiro for like 6 eps
06:15:48: <DTryPleX> Not that it would've mattered because the majority doesn't want English name order.
06:15:52: <Treize-kun> and I believe I continued with the original style. At least I tried to for consistency.
06:16:14: <DTryPleX> And now we can have two different styles this season?
06:16:20: <DTryPleX> Nice argument.
06:16:36: <Treize-kun> what does it matter. all the styles for one show will be the same.
06:17:03: <DTryPleX> What's the point in sticking to one group then, if we edit different shows in different ways?
06:17:16: <DTryPleX> We made points to isa to about how the standard for TL is in this group
06:17:22: <DTryPleX> We did that for a reason.
06:17:32: <DTryPleX> To keep the group release a group release.
06:19:00: <DTryPleX> Anyway, this discussion is pointless. In Zenyaku, releases are done by a minor group-standard, aside from that, no one is told exactly what to do.
06:19:13: <DTryPleX> If you can't deal with that, you shouldn't be in Zenyaku.
06:19:22: <DTryPleX> We're a team all the way, and our releases are teamwork too.
06:20:25: <Treize-kun> I don't know. I'll think about it, but right now, I guess I'll just stick to QC if you don't want me to edit how I see fit.
06:21:15: <DTryPleX> If you don't at least time, or at least edit. I don't want you in Zenyaku. You promised to help on at least AnK as BOTH timer and editor, knowing how Zenyaku worked.
06:21:38: <DTryPleX> If you're not planning on following up on that, it's not gonna happen./
06:22:51: <DTryPleX> I'm short on staff and we'll have a hard time dealing with these two shows without you. But if you can't deal with the group standard, there's no work for you here.
06:24:02: <Treize-kun> I was not promising that I would spend all my time grammatically fixing your editing style and timing. I can't accept that you completely get to make up the group standard. I've been in the group since the beginning, and I know that there has never been any compromise on anything like this.
06:25:41: <DTryPleX> It's a standard that came to be as issues came up and were dealt with in the beginning. I only enforce it and DO NOT make these things up as much as you apparently like to think I'm some kind of evil manipulator or something.
06:25:53: <Treize-kun> until now, I've accepted the style of those who put more time and effort into the release, but if I'm going to be putting the time and effort into the release now, I don't think it's right that others should get to decide.
06:25:58: <DTryPleX> Nor have I said anything about ANY editing style, just that you can't do English name order.
06:26:47: <DTryPleX> As I said, the one who works on it the most if 90% of the time me. No matter what the show is, but that doesn't matter.
06:26:52: <DTryPleX> No one gets the final say.
06:26:58: <DTryPleX> And I just enforce.
06:27:12: <Treize-kun> you enforce, so you get the final say. lol
06:27:27: <DTryPleX> Because if I don't enforce, there will be no decision.
06:27:35: <DTryPleX> Because the QC can change what he wants
06:27:36: <Treize-kun> and believe me, if I'm timing and editing and eps, there's no way you'll be putting more time in than me. lol
06:27:42: <DTryPleX> and I release so I can change w/e I want before release
06:27:53: <DTryPleX> That's how your theory goes.
06:28:00: <DTryPleX> That's unacceptable.
06:28:30: <DTryPleX> If you had taken the time and effort to make the site and moderate it, plan the projects, moderate and create IRC and so on.
06:28:34: <Treize-kun> my theory goes that the person who does the work cannot be changed by other people. QC can't just change whatever he wants. <_<
06:28:36: <DTryPleX> You'd be the one enforcing the decisions.
06:28:42: <DTryPleX> Yet it's me. Nothing I can do about it.
06:29:18: <DTryPleX> So I have to be the bad guy and tell you how it works and if you keep thinking I'm making all this shit up, feel free.
06:29:21: <DTryPleX> But this is how it works.
06:29:26: <DTryPleX> Deal with it, or please leave.
06:29:29: <Treize-kun> registering the irc channel took no time at all, and the site is really not that important.
06:29:49: <DTryPleX> rofl
06:31:20: <DTryPleX> I'm done talking to you. I've tried to explain it as much as I can, but you just keep writing everything off.
06:31:46: <DTryPleX> It always comes back to one thing: You think I run everything and tell everyone what to do.
06:31:53: <DTryPleX> Because that's how I want it.
06:31:57: <DTryPleX> Good for you.
06:32:43: <DTryPleX> Thanks for all your work up until now and thank you for appreciating all the work I've done up until now. Even though you think it's almost nothing apparently.
06:32:44: <DTryPleX> Goodbye.