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Kayhan V Vastola on Jill Stein's Fed/student loan policy

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Jul 27th, 2016
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  1. Rebecca Anne
  2. 2 hrs ·
  3. I'm going to take a brief interlude from dancing around the fire at my feminazi witch party in celebration of tonight to post this reminder:
  4. Jill Stein is completely unqualified to be president. It doesn't matter one iota if you think you agree with her principals. Her hilariously ill-informed comment here demonstrates that it's a literal insult to this country that someone as ignorant of government as her would even seek the presidency. If you don't understand QE or the Fed at all, please don't take this as an insult. Unless you're running for president. Because the former is absolutely a prerequisite for seeking that office.
  5.  
  6. I am Jill Stein, Green Party candidate for President, AMA! • /r/IAmA
  7. **My short bio:** Hi, Reddit. Looking forward to answering your questions today. I'm a Green Party…
  8. REDDIT.COM
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  16. CommentShare
  17. 9 Comments
  18. 7Peter Counts and 6 others
  19. Comments
  20. Nathan Kayhan
  21. Nathan Kayhan Could she not appoint a Fed chairman/woman who she was confident would buy the student debt?
  22. Like · Reply · 1 · 2 hrs
  23. Rebecca Anne
  24. Rebecca Anne Well, that's not what happened with QE. It didn't buy debt. It exchanged less liquid assets for newly created liquid assets.
  25.  
  26. But if you're asking if the government could buy and then forgive student loan debt, it could, I believe. It would have to purchase the student loan debt not already held by the federal government. It would be incredibly expensive to forgive....$1.5 trillion.
  27.  
  28. The fed doesn't really have much or anything to do with it.
  29. But the main point is comparing that to QE is nonsensical. The two are totally dissimilar. Different process, different actors, different end results. All they have in common is being related to money. She clearly doesn't realize that. She also doesn't seem to grasp that QE didn't purchase and forgive bank debt. It was a liquidity fix
  30. Like · Reply · 1 hr
  31. Nathan Kayhan
  32. Nathan Kayhan Rebecca Anne And the Fed DID buy debt for quantitative easing. It bought mainly US treasury bonds. Is that not debt?
  33. Like · Reply · 1 hr
  34. Nathan Kayhan
  35.  
  36. Write a reply...
  37.  
  38. Choose File
  39. Nathan Kayhan
  40. Nathan Kayhan Here's how it would work:
  41.  
  42. 1) Jill Stein appoints Fed Chairman/woman who has stated they support the following policy.
  43. 2) Fed buys up student loan debt from Sally Mae etc. at a rate they can't refuse with new money. The Fed has this power.
  44. 3) While the Fed now owns the student loans, they're not obligated to collect on them, and they don't.
  45. 4) No one gets collection letters so no one has to pay off their student loans anymore.
  46. 5) ???
  47. 6) Student loan crisis over.
  48. Like · Reply · 1 · 1 hr · Edited
  49. Rebecca Anne
  50. Rebecca Anne See above.
  51.  
  52. That's not quantitative easing.
  53. Like · Reply · 1 hr
  54.  
  55. Nathan Kayhan replied · 1 Reply
  56. Rebecca Anne
  57. Rebecca Anne Unless you reallyyyyyy stretch definitions. But what happened in 2009 is not what you just described
  58. Like · Reply · 1 hr · Edited
  59. Rebecca Anne
  60. Rebecca Anne Although this is all besides the point, that's an awful plan.
  61. 1) I don't know that the Fed even has enough capital to do that
  62. 2) they certainly wouldn't AFTER purchasing, and they'd just be stuck with a completely worthless asset
  63. 3) the federal government already owns most of them. Why bother purchasing them from itself?
  64. 4) if we suddenly told everyone they didn't have to pay back their student loans, the economic impact would be catastrophic
  65. 5) we'd immediately become unable to make any more student loans
  66. 6) this is terrifyingly expensive
  67. 7) we'd have to stop spending on other things
  68. Like · Reply · 1 hr
  69. Hide 23 Replies
  70. Nathan Kayhan
  71. Nathan Kayhan 1) The Fed has unlimited capital. They can print money.
  72. 2) The Fed is never 'stuck' with anything. Again, they can print money.
  73. 3) As is stated in the link you posted, the Fed is supposedly 'independent'. While the Treasury has to make up for budget deficits by going into debt, mainly by selling bonds, the Fed doesn't. If the Federal Government didn't collect on the student loans it owns, this would increase the deficit. The Fed doesn't have to worry about this.
  74. 4) How do you mean? Wouldn't it massively increase the purchasing power of millions of people? GDP would surely increase.
  75. 5) Presumably this would be part of a larger plan to make public college free. Private colleges would be pressured to offer their services at an affordable rate, but nothing would stop them from financing their students' tuition, either themselves or by partnering with a bank.
  76. 6) Again, the Fed can print money,
  77. 7) Are you SURE you understand how the Fed works?
  78. Like · Reply · 1 hr · Edited
  79. Rebecca Anne
  80. Rebecca Anne 1) that's not how that works
  81. 2) also not how that works
  82. Please never be in charge of anything
  83. 3) see above
  84. 4) it would be catastrophic for the credit ratings of the US, therefore trade, therefore the whole economy
  85. Like · Reply · 1 hr
  86. Nathan Kayhan
  87. Nathan Kayhan Rebecca Anne >To carry out QE central banks create money by buying securities, such as government bonds, from banks, with electronic cash that did not exist before.
  88. ~http://www.economist.com/.../2015/03/economist-explains-5
  89.  
  90. What is quantitative easing?
  91. TODAY the European Central Bank (ECB) launches its long-awaited programme of…
  92. ECONOMIST.COM
  93. Like · Reply · Remove Preview · 1 hr
  94. Rebecca Anne
  95. Rebecca Anne Nathan, I'm not an idiot. I'm well aware of the fact that the fed can create money.
  96.  
  97. The point is that you can't just create unlimited money. It has disastrous consequences. The fed knew it was playing with fire by doing so for QE. If you pull an Icarus with that one, you end up like Zimbabwe or the Weimar Republic
  98. Like · Reply · 1 hr · Edited
  99. Nathan Kayhan
  100. Nathan Kayhan Rebecca Anne So your concern is inflation?
  101. Like · Reply · 1 hr
  102. Rebecca Anne
  103. Rebecca Anne One of my many concerns is hyperinflation.
  104.  
  105. Others include (not a fully inclusive list): the crashing of the us credit rating and potentially also the stock market, implications for future student loans, the shady nature of the Government buying things from itself
  106. Like · Reply · 1 hr
  107. Rebecca Anne
  108. Rebecca Anne By the way, send that to Jill. Since she still has no idea what QE is.
  109.  
  110. Again, she's an idiot because she seems to think QE was forgiving bank debt
  111.  
  112. That is what this post was about, and that truth remains
  113. Like · Reply · 1 hr
  114. Rebecca Anne
  115. Rebecca Anne By the way, they also don't print money. The mint does that
  116. Like · Reply · 1 hr
  117. Rebecca Anne
  118. Rebecca Anne By the way, the pres only has some much control over the chair.
  119. Like · Reply · 1 hr
  120. Nathan Kayhan
  121. Nathan Kayhan Rebecca Anne I'm extremely impressed with Jill's understanding of the Fed, and how clearly she speaks about it. QE did effectively forgive the big banks' debt. It made up for the debt. They got a massive windfall of cash to do things like... pay off tarp! How would the Fed's actions affect the US credit rating? If you think this would crash it, why didn't QE? And if you think this would cause hyperinflation, then why do you think QE didn't, considering QE created much more money than this would? It would be great for the stock market. Think of all that extra demand! The stock market loves it when the Fed makes new money. Every bank in the world would be trying to make as many student loans as possible if they thought they might get bought by the Fed at above market rate.
  122. Like · Reply · 1 hr · Edited
  123. Nathan Kayhan
  124. Nathan Kayhan The Fed creates money, almost always in electronic form. It's as good as printed cash. Fair point about the Fed Chairman being approved by the Senate.
  125. Like · Reply · 1 hr
  126. Rebecca Anne
  127. Rebecca Anne Nathan Kayhan qe did not create much more than this would. You're just straight wrong on that one.
  128. QE was seen as saving an economy in free fall. This would be throwing a healthy economy into free fall. It's the opposite.
  129.  
  130. Also what the fuck you'd want people to keep making student loans when we had a government basically obligated to but then at an inflated price?!
  131.  
  132. Also, no. They had treasury bonds (mostly) swapped for a liquid asset so that the banks could get money to their customers.
  133. The fedchair also has to already be a sitting member.
  134.  
  135. Jill stein is clueless as shit. You're bending the hell out of her statement to make it anything close to accurate.
  136. Like · Reply · 57 mins
  137. Rebecca Anne
  138. Rebecca Anne Easy access to student loans would make tuition prices skyrocket, by the way, but you clearly are completely at a loss for how the basics of our economy work
  139. Like · Reply · 56 mins
  140. Rebecca Anne
  141. Rebecca Anne Seriously done with this conversation.
  142.  
  143. Iv deleted you and refused to readd you. Why do you keep posting on my stuff and tagging me on their peoples posts?
  144. Unlike · Reply · 1 · 56 mins
  145. Nathan Kayhan
  146. Nathan Kayhan Rebecca Anne the FED would pay NOT the US government. It might be inflationary, but inflation hurts creditors and helps debtors. Creditors are the wealthy, banks and corporations, and debtors are the masses. Therefore the inflation tax is PROGRESSIVE.
  147. Like · Reply · 54 mins
  148. Nathan Kayhan
  149. Nathan Kayhan Rebecca Anne >but you clearly are completely at a loss for how the basics of our economy work
  150.  
  151. No, you.
  152.  
  153. Are you aware that I wrote my term paper on the Fed and that it and economics in general is a major interest of mine? That I've read quite a bit material on the subject over the years and follow financial news?
  154. Like · Reply · 52 mins · Edited
  155. Rebecca Anne
  156. Rebecca Anne Wow it doesn't show. Also, if I'm not mistaken, you didn't graduate from Chico, so why would I be impressed by your term paper?
  157.  
  158. Inflation and hyperinflation are very different things. Go tell the Zimbabweans that what happened in their country was good for them.
  159. Like · Reply · 49 mins
  160. Nathan Kayhan
  161. Nathan Kayhan I wrote this term paper at O'Dowd. My point is that I've been reading and thinking about the Fed for a long time.
  162. Like · Reply · 47 mins
  163. Rebecca Anne
  164. Rebecca Anne Nathan Kayhan so I'm supposed to take your opinions seriously cause you wrote a high school paper on the federal reserve? For your English class?
  165. Like · Reply · 35 mins
  166. Rebecca Anne
  167. Rebecca Anne Dude. If we're comparing academic credentials, I was a topped ranked debater while QE was happening, won on it frequently, and then attended one of this countries top universities and graduated magna cum laude with a poli sci degree
  168.  
  169. Carries a bit more weight than the paper you wrote your junior year of high school
  170. Like · Reply · 34 mins
  171. Nathan Kayhan
  172. Nathan Kayhan Rebecca Anne FUck Academia all I'm saying is that I have studies this particular institution and it, especially a few years ago I was really passionate about ending it. I went to Tea Party rallies with 'End The Fed' signs. Obviously I knew/know my shit. I wasn't about to get easily tripped up when people started asking questions about it. I've everything from the Wikipedia on the Fed, to the Fed's own description of how it works, to Keynes' and Hayek's critiques of the Fed, to Ron Paul's book, "End The Fed" which of course includes a thorough description of how it works. One of the main reasons I dropped out of school was because I was studying economics and it became clear they were peddling bullshit, some of which I've heard you spout here.
  173. Like · Reply · 29 mins
  174. Rebecca Anne
  175. Rebecca Anne Nathan, you are literally the king of pedaling bullshit.
  176. Like · Reply · 28 mins
  177. Nathan Kayhan
  178. Nathan Kayhan Rebecca Anne haha you're the one who posts Hillary talking points non-stop!
  179. Like · Reply · 27 mins
  180. Nathan Kayhan
  181.  
  182. Write a reply...
  183.  
  184. Choose File
  185. Rebecca Anne
  186. Rebecca Anne Most importantly, back up. Your arguments have nothing to do with the above stated. So I'm done discussing your bizarro Gaia worshipping paradise and how you plan to get there
  187. Like · Reply · 1 hr · Edited
  188. Rebecca Anne
  189. Rebecca Anne Also, honestly, not that enthused about you hijacking my post to talk about something totally different
  190. Unlike · Reply · 2 · 1 hr
  191. Nathan Kayhan
  192. Nathan Kayhan I have been talking about Jill Stein's Fed policy the whole time. It's definitely a fair comparison she makes with QE. Both her proposal and QE involve the Fed creating new money to buy debt from banks.
  193. Like · Reply · 1 hr
  194. Rebecca Anne
  195. Rebecca Anne "The president then has the authority to cancel the student debt using quantitative easing the same way the debt was canceled for Wall Street"
  196.  
  197. This statement is completely inaccurate. You've made a valiant effort to justify it, but it is still far from true.
  198.  
  199. You've turned this post into a sharing platform for you're truly terrible suggestions for how to handle student loan debt.
  200. Like · Reply · 57 mins
  201. Nathan Kayhan
  202. Nathan Kayhan Rebecca Anne She oversimplified. Do you doubt that she knows that the Fed chairman and governors set Fed policy?
  203. Like · Reply · 53 mins
  204. Rebecca Anne
  205. Rebecca Anne Nathan Kayhan you're reaching very very far to try to make her statement anything close to coherent or true
  206. Like · Reply · 51 mins
  207. Nathan Kayhan
  208. Nathan Kayhan Also, honestly, not that enthused about you badmouthing the most intelligent, most empathetic, most practical candidate in the race, and the next President Of The United States, Dr. Jill Stein!
  209. Like · Reply · 49 mins
  210. Rebecca Anne
  211. Rebecca Anne This is how I feel when you talk badly about Hillary. Fortunately for me, most people agree with me and not you. Jill stein is my qualified. Even if she knew a thing or two and was a decent person, she's still as qualified to be president as about 500 other people that I know. Most Americans are as qualified to be president as Jill stein. She has no experience that prepares her to be president. Also, the things she said to Hillary made me incredibly angry. She's not empathetic or very smart or at all practical.
  212.  
  213. Jill stein will never be president. Thank god.
  214. Like · Reply · 42 mins
  215. Rebecca Anne
  216. Rebecca Anne Now stop following me around the Internet and tagging me in shit and commenting on my stuff and posing on my wall.
  217. It's really weird. And unwanted.
  218. Unlike · Reply · 2 · 41 mins
  219. Nathan Kayhan
  220. Nathan Kayhan Rebecca Anne Hillary is a liar and a cheat, and not particulary bright either.
  221. Like · Reply · 41 mins
  222. Rebecca Anne
  223. Rebecca Anne Have fun in Lala land where everything you feel in your angry, conspiracy ridden heart is true! One look at her resume and you can't deny she's intelligent as all hell.
  224.  
  225. You are a small and hateful man.
  226. Like · Reply · 1 · 37 mins
  227. Nathan Kayhan
  228. Nathan Kayhan Rebecca Anne She speaks the truth and she speaks it clearly! You are the one who is in Lala Land if you don't believe there are multiple powerful conspiracies afoot!
  229. Like · Reply · 30 mins
  230. Nathan Kayhan
  231.  
  232. Write a reply...
  233.  
  234. Choose File
  235. Lauren Halvonik Harris
  236. Lauren Halvonik Harris Dude seriously stop harassing Rebecca. It's not okay.
  237. Like · Reply · 31 mins
  238. Nathan Kayhan
  239. Nathan Kayhan How is it harassment to reply to her political assertions with thoughtful rebuttals?
  240. Like · Reply · 29 mins
  241. Nathan Kayhan
  242.  
  243. Write a reply...
  244. Choose File
  245. Rebecca Anne
  246. Rebecca Anne @nathan, you've been breathing down my neck with your bizarre brand of crazy all cycle. I've asked you to back off, I've defriended you, I've ignored our subsequent requests, hidden your posts on my wall, and ignored the weird stuff you often tag me on. Idk why you're so interested in my opinions, but it's not mutual.
  247. You come to my posts, try to hijack them, and spend a lot of your time trying to suggest I'm uneducated (which is ridiculous coming from the Chico drop out, but also just rude). I don't want to live in your weird drug utopia. Most of us don't. I've tried to play nice, but you insist on being a constant unwanted presence and also an enormously self-righteous dick.
  248.  
  249. I'm done with your shit. So consider this your official block notice. Removal coming.
  250. Like · Reply · 29 mins
  251. Nathan Kayhan
  252. Nathan Kayhan "Education" is brain washing. You're PLENTY educated, which might explain why you're so ignorant.
  253. Like · Reply · 27 mins
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