22:08 < radius> if you don't want people from making money of your software don't release it to public
22:08 < radius> that's the only choice
22:08 <@DanteAli> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedega_(software)#Controversy
22:08 < retrobot> Title: Cedega (software) - Wikipedia
22:08 <@DanteAli> not really
22:08 < Alcaro> doesn't AGPL mess with saas somehow
22:08 <@DanteAli> companies should play fair
22:08 <@DanteAli> and paly according to the rules
22:08 < Alcaro> not sure what the exact rules are
22:08 < radius> they are playing by the rules
22:08 < radius> that's the thing
22:08 <@DanteAli> look what happened when WINE wrongly licensed their software in the beginning
22:09 <@DanteAli> Cedega happened
22:09 <@DanteAli> then they had to change the license to LGPL since the author was being a dickbag
22:09 <@DanteAli> then he kept playing those games until he eventually got acquired by nvidia
22:09 <@DanteAli> you can dress this up all you want
22:09 <@DanteAli> he was being abusive
22:09 <@DanteAli> and non-cooperative
22:09 <@DanteAli> and greedy
22:09 <@DanteAli> all at the same time
22:09 <@DanteAli> and if what I am saying is wrong - then apparently WINE authors agreed with me
22:09 <@DanteAli> since they changed the ilcense
22:09 <@DanteAli> to reflect his immoral behavior
22:09 <@DanteAli> and address it
22:10 < radius> in the end when you pick the license
22:10 < radius> you're picking the rules your playing with
22:10 < radius> you can otherwise sell it, put it behind some walled garden or something like that to try to stop others from profiting from it
22:10 <@DanteAli> thing is there should be self-imposed limits as to how much of a douchebag or scumbag you should be
22:10 <@DanteAli> and a lot of people apparently don’t have that self restraint
22:10 < radius> that means a complete reboot of human kind
22:10 <@DanteAli> which tells you all you need tok now about society
22:10 <@DanteAli> so no
22:10 < Juan> Everyone should be excellent to each other
22:10 <@DanteAli> I don’t agree with you
22:10 < Juan> D:
22:11 * Juan air guitars
22:11 <@DanteAli> and I think you argue in favor of what some big corporation with lots of money would want one to think
22:11 < radius> no, but if you want to stop people from profiting from your work
22:11 < radius> the GPL is a poor choice
22:11 <@DanteAli> then again
22:11 <@DanteAli> MIT is even worse
22:11 <@DanteAli> see what happened with WINE
22:11 <@DanteAli> Cedega would have literally not happened
22:11 < radius> of course it's not meant to do the things you want it to do
22:12 <@DanteAli> if it hadn’t been for MIT
22:12 <@DanteAli> in the beginning
22:12 <@DanteAli> so MIT/BSD if anything is ten times worse
22:12 <@DanteAli> it’s basically total corporation appeasing
22:12 <@DanteAli> with GPL at least you have to give some pretense of wanting to give back
22:12 <@DanteAli> which isn’t much
22:12 <@DanteAli> but at least something is required
22:12 <@DanteAli> which still isn’t worth jack shit
22:12 <@DanteAli> but yes i agree GPLis a poor choice by now - problem is
22:12 <@DanteAli> so are all these licenses
22:12 <@DanteAli> and the people behind them are living in the past
22:12 <@DanteAli> oblivious to the fact that people are walking out in droves
22:13 <@DanteAli> because of their inability to address these issues
22:13 < radius> that's why closed source exists, so you can make your product and profit from it, you and only you
22:13 <@DanteAli> problem with that is
22:13 <@DanteAli> the software often sucks and gets outdated
22:13 <@DanteAli> as soon as the author leaves
22:13 <@DanteAli> and sometimes even when the author is still active
22:13 <@DanteAli> see cemu
22:13 <@DanteAli> or even nebula model 2
22:13 < inolen> DanteAli: you're talking a lot of shit on someone you don't know
22:13 < inolen> fwiw
22:13 <@DanteAli> or so many other emus
22:14 < inolen> (Transgaming owner was my old boss, he's a great person)
22:14 <@DanteAli> I am not talking any shit
22:14 <@DanteAli> any shit I talk I crib directly from the wikipedia article
22:14 <@DanteAli> so go take it up with them
22:14 <@DanteAli> I dont’ give a fuck about this guy - never met him, don’t care to know him
22:15 <@DanteAli> you can leap to his defense all you want
22:15 <@DanteAli> fact of the matter is
22:15 <@DanteAli> WINE devs didn’t like what he was doing
22:15 < inolen>     │16:08:58        @DanteAli | look what happened when WINE wrongly licensed their software in the beginning                                                │ d3m3vilurr
22:15 < inolen>                   │16:09:01        @DanteAli | Cedega happened                                                                                                              │ DanteEdward
22:15 < inolen>                   │16:09:12        @DanteAli | then they had to change the license to LGPL since the author was being a dickbag                                             │ Devrim
22:15 <@DanteAli> otherwise htey wouldn’t have changed the license in light of his douchebaggery
22:15 < inolen>                   │16:09:21        @DanteAli | then he kept playing those games until he eventually got acquired by nvidia
22:15 <@DanteAli> yeah
22:15 <@DanteAli> that is what the wikipedia article states dude
22:15 <@DanteAli> go fucking read it
22:15 <@DanteAli> and leave me the fuck alone
22:15 < Juan> wikipedia articles state facts now
22:15 < Juan> D:
22:15 <@DanteAli> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedega_(software)#Controversy
22:15 < retrobot> Title: Cedega (software) - Wikipedia
22:15 <@DanteAli> it isn’t called ‘Controversy’ for nothing
22:15 < Alcaro> of course, if they don't then fix them
22:16 < inolen> he's a great person that successfully ran a company that employed ~50 or so extremely talented people and provided income for them
22:16 < inolen> pretty awesome accomplishment
22:16 <@DanteAli> yeah so says a guy putting redream now behind a one-time $5 paywall
22:17 < inolen> ...
22:17 < radius> and now things get personal
22:17 < radius> man...
22:17 <@DanteAli> he should stop prodding me then
22:17 <@DanteAli> it doesn’t need to go there
22:17 <@DanteAli> but if he insists
22:17 <@DanteAli> I am willing to overlook a ton of BS
22:17 <@DanteAli> but don’t start attacking me over things that I am not even saying but wikipedia does
22:17 <@DanteAli> where there is smoke there is fire
22:17 <@DanteAli> and since this guy routinely avoided contributing anything back
22:17 <@DanteAli> I call a spade a spade
22:18 <@DanteAli> fuck that guy
22:18 <@DanteAli> when I see somebody forking some project 0-day
22:18 <@DanteAli> raking in all the benefits
22:18 < radius> honestly it seems like a guy that was f'ed up by his license
22:18 <@DanteAli> and giving ezero back
22:18 < radius> since the license allowed other people to use what his company was making
22:18 <@DanteAli> then yeah - ‘what a great wonderful person’ - I thinkn ot
22:18 < radius> without paying
22:18 <@DanteAli> radius - doesn’t give him the right to be a douchebag about it
22:18 <@DanteAli> BTW
22:18 < radius> it reminds me of someone
22:19 < radius> not the person
22:19 < radius> but what seems to have happened
22:19 <@DanteAli> these were the days long before the days of kickstarter and all this other stuff
22:19 <@DanteAli> this was back in 2003/2004 or so
22:19 <@DanteAli> if everybody manhandled open source like that it would all go nowhere
22:19 < radius> it always seems like you think everyone thinks "HAR HAR, ok I found this in the Internet and I'm gonna fuck them up"
22:19 < radius> ignorance is no excuse
22:19 <@DanteAli> that’s what the WINE devs thought
22:20 <@DanteAli> hence why they changed the license
22:20 < radius> but sadly the first order of business isn't checking the license
22:20 < radius> for anyone
22:20 <@DanteAli> again - I am not the subject of attention here
22:20 <@DanteAli> it’s what the WINE devs based
22:20 <@DanteAli> as a reaction of what that guy did
22:20 <@DanteAli> so I’d appreciate if you could leave me out of it
22:20 < radius> I read the wikipedia article but here all I'm reading is your interpretation of that
22:20 < radius> I haven't had the chance of talking to them
22:21 <@DanteAli> I knew of the controversies surrounding Cedega for years
22:21 <@DanteAli> it’s not as if I just read up on that a day ago or so
22:21 <@DanteAli> where there is smoke there is fire
22:21 <@DanteAli> and there are lots of people pissed off about what he did for decades
22:21 <@DanteAli> you can conveniently overlook that all you want
22:21 <@DanteAli> I tend to err on the side of caution and go ‘hmm where there is smoke there must be fire'
22:25 < Alcaro> so many people seem to exclude the wishes of open source software authors from their moral compass, caring only about the exact license
22:26 < radius> we all draw lines in the sand
22:26 < radius> we justify pirating games
22:26 < radius> businessmen justify using free software as if it was free
22:26 < Alcaro> hm, that's a valid argument.
22:27 <@DanteAli> ‘we justify pirating games’ - pirating is the only means of preservation
22:27 <@DanteAli> it has been ever since the C64 era
22:27 <@DanteAli> otherwise they would have no roms to sell these days either
22:27 < Alcaro> that counts as justifying
22:27 < radius> :)
22:27 * orbea thinks respecting free licenses are more important than proprietary licenses taht don't respect the users, but yes, this is a justification
22:27 <@bparker> and ripping off free software is their only means of making money
22:27 <@DanteAli> every single employee at nvidia pirates shit
22:27 <@DanteAli> otherwise they wouldn’t be using our shit
22:27 <@DanteAli> so let’s get that bullshit out of the way
22:27 <@DanteAli> BTW
22:28 < radius> EVERY SINGLE ONE!
22:28 <@DanteAli> companies engage in illegal shit all the time
22:28 <@DanteAli> they steal every day left and right , doesn’t matter what it is
22:28 <@DanteAli> whether i’ts evading taxes
22:28 < radius> man, bob at the copy room (not into games) is a filthy pirate
22:28 <@DanteAli> or code espionage
22:28 < Tatsuya79> g-sync tries to pirate my wallet
22:28 < Juan> lol
22:28 < radius> :)
22:28 <@DanteAli> or what about promoting gambling now to kids?
22:28 <@DanteAli> that is bypassing many loopholes is it not?
22:29 <@DanteAli> so let’s not talk all this bullshit about who is legit and who isn't
22:29 < Alcaro> most things corps do is technically legal but morally bankrupt
22:29 <@DanteAli> what they are doing is not technically legal
22:29 <@DanteAli> it is as legal as tax evasion
22:29 < radius> that's doesn't mean that EVERY SINGLE EMPLOYEE ON EA wants to promote gambling
22:29 <@DanteAli> it is relying on loopholes in the law
22:29 <@DanteAli> and those loopholes don’t give you the excuse to do illegal acts
22:29 <@DanteAli> it’s a flaw in the system or law
22:29 <@DanteAli> they are exploiting
22:29 <@DanteAli> so that is the irony of all this - if you do this to their products
22:30 <@DanteAli> they call you a cheater
22:30 <@DanteAli> or an exploiter
22:30 <@DanteAli> but when they do it to the law
22:30 <@DanteAli> they justify and rationalize it to themselves
22:30 <@DanteAli> sorry but that is BS
22:30 <@DanteAli> they just want to have their cake and eat it
22:31 <@DanteAli> radius - their bosses do
22:31 <@DanteAli> and that is all taht counts
22:31 <@DanteAli> all the employees are whopping boys for their bosses
22:31 <@DanteAli> so whatever the EA head decides is corporate policy
22:31 <@DanteAli> and ther employees are just the foot soldier slaves working for their salaries
22:31 <@DanteAli> they don’t have any say in the matter
22:32 < Juan> Ye let's not work for anyone, who's up to getting some terrain countryside and planting our own turnips
22:32 <@DanteAli> anyway this is quite a useeless subject - I don’t even know what you are supposed to be arguing with me about
22:32 <@DanteAli> ‘we justify pirating games’ - actually, I have always maintained retroarch is not about emulation
22:32 <@DanteAli> so this doesn’t even fly
22:32 <@DanteAli> I have nothing to do with promoting warez or roms
22:33 <@DanteAli> but I am also not going to be full of shit about it either
22:33 < radius> who talked about promoting anyone
22:33 <@DanteAli> it’s just this ‘whataboutism’ that gets thrown back in yoru face
22:33 < radius> we as in people in this channel
22:33 < radius> end users
22:33 < orbea> i think you were right at this is a useless subject
22:33 < radius> of emulators
22:33 <@DanteAli> radius - as orbea says - I think it’s best to stop about this
22:33 <@DanteAli> this whole intellectual excursion is going nowhere
22:33 <@DanteAli> except for getting people into fights
22:33 <@DanteAli> over nothing important in particular
22:34 < frangarcj> Juan do know latest working PSP build?
22:34 <@DanteAli> this whole conversation isn’t going to change a damn or do  a damn
22:34 <@DanteAli> so let’s leave it at that


22:49 <@DanteAli> inolen - I hope this is also not some childish crap where one having a difference of opinion on something makes one no longer able to talk to somebody
22:49 <@DanteAli> that would be so incredibly thin skinned right there
22:50 <@DanteAli> I have no reason to like your former boss, he never provided me with a paycheck, I’d say that makes me able to look at him more objectively than you maybe
22:50 <@DanteAli> who would maybe rationalize such things
22:50 <@DanteAli> all I do is reiterate what is said on the Internet based on the facts and evidence
22:51 <@DanteAli> if it is not in your boss’ former then that’s tough luck - he should work on his PR then
22:51 <@DanteAli> boss’ favor*
22:51 <@DanteAli> and maybe prevent the derision from getting to that stage
22:51 <@DanteAli> seems like that was never a priority for him - climbing up the corporate ladder was
22:51 <@DanteAli> which is fine but then don’t be in denial as to what one represents
22:52 < inolen> DanteAli: no, i'm just still working and i don't think there is much value in talking with you
22:52 <@DanteAli> ah some more nerd zingers
22:52 <@DanteAli> always nice those ones
22:52 <@DanteAli> so basically you’re butthurt now?
22:52 <@DanteAli> and are choosing to act disrespectful towards me now?
22:53 <@DanteAli> when I never treated you badly before?
22:53 < inolen> you literally make a product who's entire value depends on projects like mine, and yet you get personal and make cheap shots at me daring to make a few dollars myself
22:53 <@DanteAli> ‘depends on projects like mine'
22:53 <@DanteAli> like what?
22:53 <@DanteAli> redream?
22:53 <@DanteAli> I am appreciative of the fact there is a core - but let’s be brutally honest here - we are not an emulator project
22:53 <@DanteAli> we are an API/ecosystem project
22:54 <@DanteAli> also I didn’t make a cheap shot
22:54 <@DanteAli> what is ‘cheap shottish’ about saying something about a one-time fee?
22:54 <@DanteAli> if you feel ashamed of it because I mention it then whatever
22:54 <@DanteAli> I am not putting words into your mouth there
22:54 <@DanteAli> I didn’t say it was good or bad
22:54 <@bparker> orbea: that has nothing to do with anything
22:55 <@DanteAli> just saying that it’s evident which side of the fence you’re on these days
22:55 <@bparker> it's just a build failure
22:55 <@DanteAli> which would explain why you would maybe want to cape for that guy
22:55 <@DanteAli> your former boss that is
22:55 <@bparker> it still shouldn't have logs of a different recipe inside
22:55 <@DanteAli> I impart no value judgements on that
22:55 < inolen> "ashamed" lol. have fun in life man, keep burning bridges
22:55 -!- inolen <~inolen@> has left #retroarch ("WeeChat 1.9.1")
22:55 <@DanteAli> see this is the childishness right her
22:55 <@DanteAli> here*
22:55 <@DanteAli> they literally can’t read what you’re saying
22:55 <@DanteAli> I never said it was good or bad
22:55 < Juan> Yes you did
22:55 < Juan> Context
22:56 < radius> of course not! you brought it up because it was wonderful
22:56 < radius> we should replace the patreon with a $5 one time fee with this precedent
22:56 < radius> /sarcasm
22:56 <@DanteAli> why should he feel bad because I brought it up?
22:56 <@DanteAli> makes literally no sense
22:56 <@DanteAli> he should feel proud of it then
22:56 <@bparker> cause american snowflake
22:56 <@DanteAli> if you do something and then I bring it up
22:57 <@DanteAli> I am saying something bad
22:57 <@DanteAli> LOL
22:57 < radius> nah bparker it was a cheap shot indeed
22:57 <@DanteAli> not really
22:57 < radius> yeah you made it personal as ever
22:57 <@bparker> I didn't read the whole thing
22:57 <@DanteAli> that dude had been talking to me for weeks about how all emulators should be commercialized
22:57 <@DanteAli> it’s pretty apparent which side of the fence he is on
22:57 <@DanteAli> which is alright wiht me
22:57 < radius> you make far more of emulators than him
22:57 < radius> he probably sold 2
22:57 <@DanteAli> but then - don’t attack me over saying something about the guy behind cedega
22:57 <@DanteAli> or whatever
22:58 < radius> he said you were talking bs
22:58 <@DanteAli> this is the childish autistic nerds that work for these companies
22:58 < radius> which is probably right
22:58 <@DanteAli> they want to have their cake and eat it
22:58 <@bparker> oh snap
22:58 < Juan> He didn't attack you, you attacked the guy he actually knew
22:58 * bparker popcorn
22:58 <@DanteAli> Juan - I attacked nothing
22:58 < Juan> Sure
22:58 <@DanteAli> I reiterated what the wikipedia article stated
22:58 <@DanteAli> and what WINE devs stated
22:58 <@DanteAli> he should take it up with them instead
22:58 <@DanteAli> before getting to me
22:58 < radius> dude is a stunt driver, I guess we're all more nerdy than him
22:58 < Juan> You tell yourself whatever you want instead of owning up to your attitude
22:58 < Juan> D:
22:59 <@DanteAli> I have literally nothing to apologize for in this case
22:59 <@DanteAli> I have nothing to be appreciative of this guy’s former boss for
22:59 <@DanteAli> I am an impartial observer
22:59 < radius> lol
23:00 < orbea> bparker: probably this commit https://github.com/libretro/libretro-super/commit/69ee05f917234526f4fb9f20285b6af2ecca0f4d
23:00 < retrobot> Title: Merge pull request #611 from orbea/cleanup · libretro/libretro-super@69ee05f · GitHub
23:00 <@bparker> DanteAli: I think most people highly disagree with that last statement
23:01 <@DanteAli> too bad for them tehn
23:01 <@DanteAli> then*
23:02 <@DanteAli> I have also nothing to be in debted to nvidia for or their employees
23:02 <@DanteAli> they never did anything for us
23:02 <@DanteAli> what ‘bridges’ are there to burn?
23:02 <@DanteAli> what - some more devs they can poach?
23:02 <@DanteAli> yeah - great
23:02 <@DanteAli> such hep
23:03 <@DanteAli> help*
23:03 < vudiq> you both could just agree that you disagree and move on
23:03 <@DanteAli> I am perfectly willing to
23:03 <@DanteAli> problem is
23:03 <@DanteAli> this dude inolen is too childish for that
23:03 < vudiq> and stop beating the dead horse
23:03 <@DanteAli> he had to do the typical autist ‘leaving now because you said one bad word’ thing
23:04 <@DanteAli> these people can’t deal with people in real-lif
23:04 <@DanteAli> life*
23:04 <@DanteAli> you have to say all the nice code words and talk to them
23:04 <@DanteAli> as if you are buttering them up
23:04 <@DanteAli> and the minute you get off-script and tell them something in unfiltered fashion
23:04 < radius> children actually keep going at it until they are made to stop
23:04 <@DanteAli> they can’t handle it
23:05 <@DanteAli> as for the one-time fee
23:05 < radius> but alas, I don't care bout this argument, I think you making it personal breaks lots of relationships with other devs, and then you want to rally for support, but yeah it's your project do whatever you want, we all should do whatever we want
23:05 <@DanteAli> I have zero issue with it until he would add it to the libretro core
23:05 <@DanteAli> if he were to add it to the libretro core
23:05 <@DanteAli> I think that would be unacceptable and I’d fork it the
23:05 <@DanteAli> then*
23:05 <@DanteAli> beyond that
23:05 <@DanteAli> if that doesn’t happen - I have no issue with it
23:05 <@DanteAli> radius - I might have made it persona
23:05 <@DanteAli> personal*
23:05 <@DanteAli> regardless
23:05 <@DanteAli> it was one line
23:06 <@DanteAli> that he could have easily overlooked
23:06 <@DanteAli> in the heat of the moment
23:06 <@DanteAli> I am willing to put up with a lot of abuse
23:06 * radius hums, "dun dun dun another one bites the dust"
23:06 <@DanteAli> I continually have to overlook things
23:06 <@DanteAli> radius - dude, this guy’s dreamcast emu will take decades until it can even measure up to reicast
23:06 <@DanteAli> he knows nothing about the GPU
23:06 <@DanteAli> it’s a total dead end
23:06 <@DanteAli> and now even asking for one-time fees and whatnot
23:06 <@DanteAli> yeah - such a great loss
23:07 <@DanteAli> sorry but I’m sick and tired of all this self-sabotage going on in DC emu land
23:07 <@DanteAli> nobody knows what they are doing and the reluctance to cash in is higher than their ability to actually get something compettiive in people’s hands
23:07 <@DanteAli> RCPS3 already emulates the PS3 better than both DC opensource emus do
23:07 <@DanteAli> it’s laugahble
23:07 <@DanteAli> lauhable*
23:07 <@DanteAli> laughable*
23:13 <@DanteAli> anyway I’m willing to take that line back if it means restoring potential damaged relations
23:14 <@DanteAli> somebody contact inolen in PM and ask him if he would want to reconsider
23:14 <@DanteAli> he should at least be enough of a grownup about it that we can talk about it
23:14 <@DanteAli> getting really tired of all these guys acting like kids
23:14 <@DanteAli> can’t handle one line
23:14 <@DanteAli> I don’t need to like any of their coworkers or their bosses - I  don’t have a contract I signed that says I am supposed to like them
23:15 <@DanteAli> and when you try to PM these guys to try to resolve a situation they don’t respond either - typical chidish autist move
23:15 < vudiq> he takes it personal because you were talking about a person he knows
23:15 <@DanteAli> can’t deal with ‘words’ so they retreat into the corner
23:15 <@DanteAli> vudiq - meh - act like an adult
23:15 <@DanteAli> I based what I said on what I read from various sources
23:16 <@DanteAli> his ‘friend’ is somebody in the public limelight
23:16 <@DanteAli> people will have opinions about him
23:16 <@DanteAli> based on what he did
23:16 <@DanteAli> just as they do about me
23:16 <@DanteAli> I deal with it on a daily basis
23:16 < orbea> i'd give it some time, no need to force anything
23:16 <@DanteAli> so should he
23:16 <@DanteAli> orbea - meh - knowing these guys it’s a lifelong grudge now
23:16 <@DanteAli> that ’s how ‘rational’ they all are
23:16 < orbea> hopefully not
23:16 < orbea> that would be silly
23:16 <@DanteAli> they are still intellectually 8+ years old of age
23:17 <@DanteAli> if these are the ‘alies’ we are supposed to win in this 'scene'
23:17 <@DanteAli> then this entire scene is a waste of time
23:17 <@DanteAli> and we’d be better off doing something else
23:17 < Juan> You are still ranting about him ffs
23:17 <@DanteAli> don’t have time to overindulge some petty guys’ egos working for random Valley companies
23:17 <@DanteAli> don’t have time for that BS
23:17 <@DanteAli> I can tell you that pretty much
23:17 < Juan> How circle jerk can this get is baffling
23:17 < vudiq> yes, you are right DanteAli. these days people disqualify you just because you have different opinion
23:18 <@DanteAli> pretty much what happened here
23:18 <@DanteAli> in any case - can’t help that
23:18 <@DanteAli> relationships based on that can not be considered relationships anyway
23:18 < vudiq> just move on, let it be