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- Disclaimer: Gamefreak has never listened to community input, they have people that explicitly go over balancing changes, though their way of balancing the game could at times be referred to as "working in mysterious ways" while cramming down another irrelevant gimmick down an already dead alley way. It's a fun game with sincere dept to it, but so glaring in its imbalance both from design and especially from competitive that the majority playing the game wouldn’t even notice it.
- These are arguments brought up in in-game Nuzzlock runs(Pokemon Challenges explains bits on this in his "pokemon tierlist"), competitive VGC (Wolf Glick has a video on explicitly this), smogon singles (I have 8 years of competitive Smogon singles experience and comparing my notes to their mentions, similar, though I take liberty in how I personally would fix each type knowing the back ground of why each type is super effective/resisted by design).
- Pokemon type balances logical standpoint:
- Bug super effective against Fairy
- Ice resisting Fairy
- Ice resisting Electric
- Electric super effective against Steel
- Pokemon type balances competitive standpoint:
- Fairy weak to Bug, also Bug to resist Fairy => Buffs Bug/minor nerf to Fairy (Even WChamp Wolf Glick mentions this change)
- Ice resisting Ground => Nerfs Ground coverage
- Ice resisting Electric => Nerfs Boltbeam coverage
- lower priority:
- Rock neutral to Fighting => Nerfs Fighting/Flying coverage and major buff for Rock-types
- Electric super effective against Steel => Major nerf Steel but too overcompensating buff to Electric
- External buffs/nerfs that coincide with type related changes:
- Bugs are immune to entry hazards
- Pivoting moves cost the user 1/16th of their health each time they are used. => Literally the best moves in the game.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Explanation:
- Logical:
- Bug super effective against Fairy:
- Fairy is known for their Fey/nature caring aspects. Bugs are one of the biggest aspects of nature. Yet Fairy does not resist Grass, but it does resist Bug. I'm unsure where this logic even comes from. Bees pollinate flowers, termites remove dead tree wood, ants cultivate for Christ sake. How would this concept even work against such an important part of cleaning up nature. Even the association of the moonlight doesn't at all make sense here as critters are more active explicitly in the dark/at night as there are less predators around. If looked at from the perspective of ants or parasitic insects like ticks/mites, it would make sense to give Fairy a weakness to it.
- Ice resisting Fairy:
- Ice is in the pokemon sense regarded as an absence of "energy", as the story of Kyurem nicely tells. In fact, Kyurem freezes itself to hold the husk that it is in-one-piece after separation of 2 sides of the origin dragon.
- Fairy could make sense to be resisted by ice, for fairy is a typing that cares for life and Ice is a typing devoid of it. *Shivers*
- Ice resisting Electric:
- Ice from a chemical stand point is cold Water in a sturdy hexagonal structure that traps oxygen molecules in its process. Unlike water(with impurities), Ice is actually quite resistant to electricity as the structure doesn't allow much convection of electricity.
- The impurities are set further apart than they would be in normal water, which is the part that is conductive about water in the first place. Deionized purified water for example, is an excellent non-conductor (English has so many specific words, yet the common use of the word "isolator" isn't used in the sense of electricity, only heat, despite there being nearly no difference???)
- Electric super effective against Steel:
- Talking about there being nearly no difference between heat and electricity, Electric has just as much right to be super effective against steel, as fire does. In fact, we use steel as conductors explicitly, and with ground being immune to electricity and water weak to Electricity, this has all logical implication to be seen as super effective.
- Also fun fact: Beta Gold/Silver had the "Metal" type be weak to Water and Electric. We don't talk about how the typing worked beyond that though, that is a mistake.
- Balancing:
- If you asked anyone who plays/played competitive pokemon "what would be the worst typing", almost anyone would say Ice or Bug, some Grass
- Fairy becoming weak to Bug:
- Fairy typing is one of the best typings in the game. Fairy was introduced to deal with Dragon-types, the most oppressive typing in gen 4 and gen 5, forcing an equally as dominant presence of Steel-types in attempt to counter them.
- However Faiy type influences 2(3) other types. Dark was about to receive the best buff in history of pokemon from a move pool perspective: 65 base power Knock Off. Knock Off, while not the most used in its debute, it always had some usage whenever a pokemon wasn't able to deal enough damage. It had taken them so long to do this buff that half of all Pokemon now have it. It also didn't help they gave it to almost every Fighting-type, which brings us to the second affected type; Fighting-type.
- Fighting alongside Ground is the best coverage typings for a pokemon to have in their movepool. Flying-types overall were frail and nearly always neutral by dual typing. Psychic, while good against it, wasn't enough for it's time as many good type combos of Fighting were introduced in Gen 5, it be Scrafty, the Swords of Justice or the best pure fighting-types in Conkeldurr/Mienshao who could use Facade or Sheer Force elemental punches, or in Shao's case, hit just hard with High Jump Kick and pivot with U-turn if needed with Reckless boost or Regenerator detering Life Orb recoil, Entry Hazards and Rocky Helmet.
- But then we get to why it resists Bug and there is no logic at all to be found. It would make equally as much sense to make Grass resisted by Fairy as it would for Fairy to resists Bug. Competitively, Bug sucks, it has always sucked, Even gen 1 where it could have worked well offensively if it wasn't for the lack of strong STAB moves like many types during that time. In addition, they overall made it worse the gen after as they buffed Poison by making Bug no longer super effective, but instead resisted by Poison. This exact change but for Fairy is what I am proposing. This is so devoid of logic from design or competitive aspect I can't but rant about this.
- Why would anyone make a horrible typing even worse, and this is even contrary to the eastern belief as Bugs aren't regarded as weak, that's a very western perspective(*)(see design origin of pokemon at the * )
- By making Bug resistant to Fairy it would help out lesser Bug pokemon as currently the majority of good Bug-type pokemon are Steel/Bug or Bug/Fire and even Bug/Poison.
- This honestly wouldn't make Bug as good as say Fire, just gain a better matchup against a dominant typing, and overall better than it had gen 5, but it still have 6 more resistences waiting in the back in trade of "now" 4 good match ups. If they really wanted to go all-out and balance this, it would have to be super effective against and resist Fairy-typing, it's so beyond far away in terms of type matchups to any other typings, even Ice. I will also say, for the past 8 years I played competitive, I have never seen Fairy even be used to deal with a Bug-type not named Heracross, like, ever. Bugs always have ran coverage, as the offense of the type is insufficient to begin with so Ground or Rock is used in combination to deal with Poison, Steel or Fire types with Fairy being an afterthought to even hit as it can't even run enough coverage to hit all its resistances so you try to cover the main ones you expect to run into; Flying, Fire and Steel. It's negatives so far out way the positives the only things that are notable/unique about it are being super effective against Psychic and resistant to Ground... and then Flying just waltzes over also able to deal with Grass, Fighting and immune to ground.
- TL:DR; Bug +3, Fairy -1, if Bug became resistant: Fairy -1.5 as most Fairy's do have coverage for Bug
- Ice resisting Ground:
- Ground-type coverage has, if you combine all types, a 4x effectiveness (if accounting flying immunity as a resistance), this is 2 super effectiveness over any other typing barring only rock where it is 1 effectiveness over.
- If a pokemon is introduced of Normal, Ice, Flying, Steel, Rock with gen6+ type chart it is obligated to have either Fighting or Ground coverage to be relevant and while typings such as Fairy, Fighting and Fire do not need the coverage to be decent, they still greatly benefit from it.
- One of the most notorious type combinations EdgeQuake(Stone Edge&Earthquake) has gained attention simply for how efficient it is at taking on pokemon their typing in pure and/or any dual typing forms, as there simply is no coverage as efficient as this one at dealing super effective damage and neutral damage.
- It also does not help that most flying-types are one of most frail typings, Bugs are the worst overall typing only arguable with Ice, and finally Grass-types generally being combined with Poison typing leaving it up to Water to take on Ground-type moves despite not even resisting it.
- Ice types could greatly equalize this situation and gain an advantage over Water by being a optimal counter typing for it while still retaining most of the weaknesses it has to coverage options like Rock/Fire/Steel, for those type/coverage combos to work.
- TL:DR; Ice +2, Ground -1, -0.5 Water? 0.25?
- Ice resisting Electric:
- Electric types by design have 3 resistances to it other than itself; Dragon and Grass with Ground being an immunity. Grass generally being a more defensive typing has logical advantage of this resistance but Dragon doesn't really. Barring the exception of pseudo-legendary’s simply having above average stats, and thus in broad view quite high bulk, there are few defensive Dragon-types by design.
- Ice types however, even after introduction of plenty more offensive Ice-types in later generations, it still is one of the slowest and most defensive typings in the game only behind Steel- and Rock-types.
- In addition, the notorious type combination of BoltBeam(Thunderbolt and Ice Beam) has carved its legacy into older generation and not really gotten worse as time moved on, more so got fewer things to make good use of it. We do now have Freeze Dry to do that coverage explicitly for Ice-types, but that's still only given to Ice, which only had 3 pokemon using Bolt Beam in the first place.
- Giving Ice the resistance to Electric would by design of Freeze Dry make sense, but also greatly help the Ice-typing get more viable in general as Gamefreak clearly has all intend to keep the typing defensively implied, despite only 1 resistance and few notable neutralities with only Grass, Flying and Ground.
- TL:DR; Ice +1, Electric -1
- Rock becomes neutral to Fighting:
- Rock is the most defensive typing, Steel only slightly edges in HP and defence while Rock, on average, has more special defence in addition to outdoing any other type in defence.
- Despite this fact, Rock actually is the second best offensive typing for accumulation in coverage sense, only second to ground, giving it plenty potential offensively. However, Rock-types aren't good, often even regarded as one of the worst typings in the game behind Bug/Ice and a steap drop from 4th worst to undeniable group of worst 3.
- Part of this is thanks to the Steel typing, as Rock doesn't do much to differentiate itself from Steel in resistances/weaknesses, unlike Ground, which does do this.
- The only thing the Rock typing has over Steel or Ground is being resistant to Fire, while trading off resistances in other types for overall more weaknesses. Not to exclude the functional aspect that Fighting is one of most common coverage option to be given to Fire-types over the past generations. This is made even worse in gen 8 with the addition of Scorching Sands, a tutor special ground move given to all final stage Fire-types, so with this change it wouldn't make it much worse for special/mixed Fire-types
- If you compare each type between Ground, Steel and Rock, there isn't much else they could do beyond remove fighting as a weakness to set Rock and Steel further apart. Fighting itself wouldn't suffer much, as they still resist and are already near obligated to run Ground or Steel coverage for Poison / Fairy respectively.
- I even dislike Rock to become neutral to Fighting as it goes against the design concept of the martial artist breaking concrete slabs, alongside ice slabs and being able to tinker with metal, thus being super effective against them.
- However, removing Fighting as a super effective typing against Rock would in-part solve the issue of Flying + Fighting coverage, as Gamefreak is giving Fighting coverage to more and more Flying types, for example Body Press Corviknight and Skarmory. This leaves much to desire off of Ground-types as they need none-stab coverage to hit it(even for dual types), while the Electric-type still is the most lacking typing in terms of defensive options to take on these Flying-types.
- The alternative would be to make Ice resistant to Fighting and to make Rock neutral to Ground, which by design would make somewhat more sense, but would not help alleviate the oppressive position Ground-type coverage has beyond Flying/Ground coverage.
- TL:DR; Rock +1.5, Fighting -0.5, Fire -0.25, Flying -0.75 for things to hit, get hit by, and pair with
- Electric super effective against Steel:
- "Steel-types good resistances, Electric-type good offensively but limited things to hit, with change, Electric now also have lot of things to hit." -Unga Bunga.
- Jokes aside, this is the most logical rebalance after giving the Ice-typing a resistance to Electric as Electric has been a perfectly fair type chart balancing while also evening out the Steel-types their abundant defensive uses with limited weaknesses. In fact, part of why Fire types are so good is thanks to Steel being so abundant, and Fairy in recent years even made that worse by adding a resistance and lowering abundance of Dragon-types.
- Minor notice would be that some type combinations with Steel, like Fire/Steel, Psychic/Steel, Fairy/Steel would be nerfed down a slight bit while Ground/Steel would greatly improve among others. Indirect result hopefully has a similar implication as Fire has over Fairy as of gen 6, and certainly noticeable as of gen 8, thanks to Heavy-Duty Boots. Massive * with the fact I would like to see a nerf to how pivoting moves work, see further down below, as Volt Switch is an undeniable part of the Electric-type and what makes it good.
- TL:DR; Electric +3, Steel - 1.5
- Finally there are 2 mechanical changes that would make sense from a competitive stance.
- Bug-types becoming immune to Entry Hazards(moves like Stealth Rock, Sticky Web, etc):
- Ever since the start of the game, Gamefreak has gone to adding mechanical solutions to fix the type chart instead of actually changing the chart. Dark types have become immune to explicitly the ability Prankster, as a minor but effective nerf to the abundant presence of Prankster pokemon in VGC as shown in VGC16((**) (see further trivia down below). Grass-types are immune to powder moves, essentially Safety Goggles, as a good comparison. Ghost-types have been immune to trapping moves ever since gen 4 like Shed Shell. While Rock types gained a Special Defence multiplier of 1.5x under Sand to help balance the weather imbalance of Water- and Fire-types. Ice is left out of this equation for the mechanical part, Ice-types got access to a unique move that only works under hail, Aurora Veil, abundant auto setters of the weather condition and have since gen2 had Blizzard which always hits under Hail. All be it that their list of viable weather abusers is quite limited beyond these notes, as the playstyle could more practically be referred to as set-up spam enabling support closer to Screen Offense than Hail Offense.
- In a similar sense, the Bug-typing has been buffed ever since gen 5 with moves that are so good they would dominate the game if given to almost any other typing, let alone as freely as they have been for the Bugs as almost any Bug-type gets one of these. Sticky Web, a near Bug unique entry hazard, Quiver Dance, the second best set up move only after Shell Smash (which has a build in downside and is given to only a subgroup of pokemon).
- Recent additions of moves such as Lunge, First Impression, Pollen Puff being 90 base attack and Heal Pulse in a singular move, U-turn still being the best pivoting move for offensive attackers, Leech Life buffed to be the strongest draining move only second to a legendary signature move only by draining. All these additions are obvious attempts at making the Bug-typing better, but in true Gamefreak fashion, too little, too late. With the introduction of Heavy-Duty Boots, I would not be surprised if they gave immunity to the Bug typing for any entry hazard, as it would be a true Gamefreak thing to do.
- While this doesn’t affect VGC much if at all, it does give more to the Bug typing in an extremely similar way to the Powder move immunity given to Grass-types.
- With Gigantamax Copperajah’s signature being a Steel-type version of Stealth Rock, it would make sense to do such a change as we have seen Kommo-o’s Z signature being turned into a regular move, and we would for the first time ever, have pokemon dying up on entry without being named Shedinja. On unique case of Shedinja, it would be buffed timely to be competitive, as most teams do have status moves or weather to chip it down outside of Entry Hazards. The implications that a Steel-type Stealth Rock carry are an entire topic I do not want to even go into as it would push the meta further into the issues of Steel type dominance, buff Fire even more and worsen rock/ice to laughable levels if we assume a issue as current Stealth Rock presence, at least for 6v6 metagames.
- TL:DR; Bug +0.5
- Pivoting moves being given fixed recoil damage upon use (at 1/16th their maximum HP):
- Make a list of the best moves in the game, pivoting, status spreading, instant recovery and speed control are the ones that come to mind in any of the 3 fields competitive pokemon is played. In addition, Item removal is seen in VGC and Smogon singles to the extreme and entry hazards are the definition of good in 6v6 metagames.
- When talking about entry hazards it can't be ignored what their function is; punishing switching. However VGC doesn't really have entry hazards, despite often enough switching for entry hazards to be worth it, there are simply better options to go for like Trick Room or setting terrain/weather.
- This leaves the issue that there are no punishments to pivoting moves. Further on just how good pivoting is, U-turn is almost always used for their utility, not their 70 base Bug damage, same for Flip Turn, Volt Switch, etc. As a result, pivoting moves have a spot in most recommended sets according to usage in singles and doubles, regardless of 4v4(like VGC) or 6v6(Smogon Singles and Doubles), all be it 3v3 singles has less use for them for there is less to switch to. One of the common complaints I have heard over the years has been the lack of a cost, as pivoting to gain the advantage can even be considered worth an entire pokemon slot for.
- Gamefreak doesn't often do mechanical nerfs, at most we did see base power nerfs or accuracy being lowered on a move.
- I would like propose a solution; fixed recoil damage(say, 1/16th, aka the opposite of Leftovers) to pivoting moves to balance the abundance of pivoting moves. It also would not make items like Rocky Helmet worse, in fact, even encourage it, and help rebalance the role dominance in Electric-types as fast pivots or defensive pivots to instead allow for more roles like set-up sweeper and All-Out Attacker. Instead of slapping on a +3 set up move onto a 173 special attack near legendary or a +2 set up move one of your most used Electric-types and call it a set up wall breaker.
- I will account Volt Switch as a core part of Electric for scoring as that is what the type is centred around for most.
- TL:DR; Volt Switch/U-turn/Flip Turn/Parting Shot/Teleport/Baton Pass -1
- Value of each pokemon type from a scale of 1 to 10 (Half values are rounded); with 0 unusable and 10 broken.
- *Courtesy of Wolf Glick, Pokemon Challenges and PokeaimMD for their youtube videos for the following Tierlist rankings.
- In-game competitive (Nuzzlock, as implied by PC);
- He didn't make a Tier List, instead ranked every pokemon for the environment of Nuzzlocking for that gen, as such, rock are better in early gens thanks to Explosion and better as a broad view to Steel by sheer availability.
- S(8): Water, Dragon, Steel, Fairy
- A+(7): Electric, Dark
- A(6): Normal, Ground, Ghost, Fighting, Fire, Psychic(5.5)
- B(5): Rock, Grass, Flying
- C(4). Poison, Bug, Ice
- Normal higher for In-game as its readily available, often given good early game moves and abusability with synergies like Stab Guts Facade or even pre-statused Facade not to mention Return, normal = 6.5 or more for PC
- Bug types are good early game in a lot of cases but still overall lacking with some of the worst pokemon in the series.
- He jokes about Ice being bad, the type is, the mons that are available generally aren't bad.
- Psychic according to his video for gen4/5 started dropping off, so I reflect that with 5.5, in a simalar way Rock could be lower on the list but does have availability at a high in early game while psychic is typically average at best in gen5+ mid game
- Electric is amazing for thunderbolt availability and high speed + good offense as entire outline of the type. Similar implications for Dark but with early game learn pool often being excellent.
- Fire is amazing but almost none-existent in some gens, not the easiest to list as it heavily depends on the mon.
- Water overall average, but synergies of Rain and coverage potential can't be ignored, even STAB surf goes a long way.
- Ground is extremely dependant on the pokemon it is on to be offensive or so bulky it can still hit as hard as needed.
- Competitive PvP Singles (Implied by PokeaimMD): watch?v=aV65xWYIP4c
- S (8+) : Dark, Fairy, Ghost(7.5), Ground(7), Steel
- A (6.5?): Water, Dragon, Psychic, Flying, Fighting, Electric
- B (5) : Poison, Rock, Grass(5.5), Fire
- C (3) : Normal(4), Ice, Bug
- This is quite a specialized list, I could even argue flawed in how they approached it, but it still gives an overview of how good each type is, and even works better to adjust the pivoting aspect into the type chart as they used that as core aspect to rank mons. Fittingly, as that defines PvP Singles. (***)
- Competitive PvP Doubles (implied by Wolf Glick); watch?v=jkqlT2PUVAU&t=1061s
- S (8+). Steel, Fairy, Water(7)
- A (6): Fire, Ghost, Psychic, Dragon, Flying, Electric, Ground
- B (5): Dark, Grass, Rock, Normal, Fighting(5.5)
- C (4). Ice, Poison
- D (2). Bug
- Overall;
- 9. Steel, Fairy
- 8. Water
- 7. Fire, Ghost, Electric, Ground(6.5)
- 6. Dragon, Psychic, Flying, Fighting, Dark
- 5. Grass, Normal
- 4. Rock, Poison
- 3. Ice
- 2. Bug
- Ground is stupid to list as there is a massive gap between fast and slow Ground-types, as slow Ground-types are too easy to wear down(*Mentioned by PokeaimMD). Hence why Gliscore and Hippowdon do so well, they have recovery.
- Changes overview:
- Steel 7.5, Fairy 7.5, Water 7.5, Fire 6.75, Ghost 7, Electric 7 to 7.5, Ground 6.5, Dragon 6, Psychic 6, Flying 5.25, Fighting 5.5,
- Dark 7, Grass 5, Rock 5.5, Normal 5, Ice 6, Bug 5.5 or as
- ranking before applied buffs with values of intended increase/decrease
- 9. Steel(-1.5), Fairy(-1.5)
- 8. Water (-0.25)
- 7. Fire(-0.25), Ghost, Electric(+2 -1 -1), Ground(6.5 -1), Dark
- 6. Dragon, Psychic, Flying(-0.75), Fighting(-0.5)
- 5. Grass, Normal
- 4. Rock(+1.5), Poison(+0.5)
- 3. Ice(+3)
- 2. Bug(+3.5)
- Dynamics theory;
- Fighting: Fairy V, Flying v, Ice ^^, Steel V, Poison ^, Bug^, Rock ^(but no longer super vs)=> could argue to be 5.5 to 6 accumulated
- Ground: Electric ^, Steel v, Rock ^, Ice ^^, Bug ^^, Water v, Poison ^ => It's close to a -0.5 drop when accumulated
- Flying: Rock ^, Steel v, Bug ^^, Electric ^, Ice ^^? => A nerf to Flying as an offensive and defensive type
- Normal: Rock ^, Steel V, coverage often run on Normals remains the same in Ground coverage => Nothing changes for Normal
- Ghost: Bug ^^, Poison ^ => Ghost a bit better(possibly 7.5) => Normal resulting also a slight bit better
- Grass: Flying v, Steel v, Electric^, Rock ^, Ground v, Bug ^^, Ice ^^, Water v => Major influence for this type, however if everything is added up, it should remain about equal. Seeing they are exploring more Grassy Terrain uses and buffing Sun synergie on top of archtype unique traits like Leech immunity and Strength Sap distribution, the typing overall isn't bad off at all.
- Water: Electric ^^, Ground v, Rock ^, Ice ^^ => Becoming less neutral, more competition from Ice in trade of being better vs it itself, Electric becoming better would mean Water gets worse, but in reality Water is so neutral it only ever had to switch for that, which you often had a hard answer for anyways in Grass and/or Ground.
- Poison: Bug ^^, Steel V, Ground v, Fighting v, Fairy V, Rock ^ =>Afterall is said and done, poison minorly gains by becoming more valuable to resist Bug, less pressence of an immunity and more traded for pressurce of a mere resist in Rock, in the same sense also less Ground as a counter helps more than countering a top tier in Fairy or minor check to Fighting.
- Dark: Fairy V, Fighting v, Bug ^^ => About the same.
- Fire: Water v, Rock ^, Steel V => Overall less good by outcompetition Steels for Rock with Electric-types being prefered to beat Steel.
- Dragon: Ice ^^, Steel, V, Fairy V, Water v => Dragon should improve slightly, not massively. 5 Dragon's currently in OU, Ground/Dragon wouldn't per say be worse as more Electric pairs with Fire also dealing with Steel => generally slapable to deal with both more efficiently than generic Dragons.
- Psychic: Steel V, Poison ^, Bug ^ => roughly the same
- After regular calculations:
- 7.5: Water, Steel, Fairy
- 7: Ghost, Electric, Fire, Dark
- 6: Ice, Dragon, Psychic
- 5.5: Rock, Bug, Flying, Ground, Fighting
- 5: Grass, Normal
- 4.5: Poison
- Final thoughts;
- Besides Bug/Ice becoming average. The overall placing is barely changed, though with a major difference: everything is now close together. If just the change of Bug vs Fairy and an actual type chart buff for Ice happened, the list would become more fair.
- As it is now, every player on each aspect of playing the game competitively agrees Ice and Bug are the worst types while Steel and Fairy are too good. Even with proposed buffs the size of changing an entire resistance into a super effective target against one of the best typings, that you would in addition resist, Bug would still be below average. That's how far behind Bug, and partially Ice, are.
- On their turn Water is superior while Normal/Poison are lesser. A singular change of neutrality to resistance or neutrality to super effective could make these types go from suboptimal to average. Poison didn't get much in this list, i have theorized and calced up a change of Water weak to Poison, but at the end of the day, the current placing is better for how many good type combinations Poison already has, it might over time be closer to 5 depending on what other good Poison types we get.
- Both Fighting and Ground probably are close to 6 when given more time for the meta to adapt with these changes. Finally types can be promoted further by tweaks in abilities like Leaf Guard, better move distribution and even synergies like making a Ghost-type Surf to potentially harm allies => more reason to use Normal types, both as allies and in responds to Ghost-types.
- sides notes;
- What dual types would also improve greatly from these buffs;
- +Fairy/Rock, Psychic/Rock and Bug/Rock would certainly benefit from Rock's neutrality by becoming resistant to Fighting, pair this with Bug already being neutral to Ground or Rock/Psychic's like Solrock/Lunatone having Levitate makes for great anti Ground+Fighting, which previously only Steel/Flying types could do.
- +Rock/Steel, Rock/Dark wouldn't suddenly become the best defensive types in the game, but it sure does help both of them become better as Tyranitar finally has reached the time period of low relevancy, despite pressence of Psychic and Ghost-types for Singles as of gen 8, with none-mega only seeing usage in Nationaldex thanks to retaining Pursuit by National dex rules. As for Rock/Steel => Literally known as one of the worst type combos. It now has less pressence of Ground, but losing the 4x weakness to Fighting is a major boon for the high defensive Aggron, Bastiodon, Stakataka and even Probopass to use Iron Defense + Body Press and have ways to out against them.
- +Steel/Ice becomes noticeably better thanks to neutrality to Electric and Ground, finally justifying its place as a unqiue quality Steel-type at cost of 4x weaknesses to Fighting and Fire.
- +Fairy/Flying(rather obsolete previously) would become better by neutrality to Bug.
- -Bug/Grass wouldn't improve much, Fairy resistance and superiority in theory helps vs fairy's like Comfey, but most have Mystical Fire.
- -Water/Ice wouldn't improve much, but it would be a water type that can hit grass types with STAB Ice-type coverage in addition to being neutral to Electric. Funny enough, I see it have more competition with pure Ice-types after this change, but that's not the worst as Water/ice types are some of the best pokemon by stats .... minus Dewgong.
- -Many Ice type combinations like Ice/Flying or Cryogonal explicitly wouldn't gain much. Only a resistance to Electric, still, undeniably useful to check Rotom-Mow/Frost or other Electric-types. Which has already been the case for Cryogonal in NU/PU for gen 6/7.
- Miscellaneous:
- Also fun time of reading youtube/twitch/twitter comments that accurately showcase the quality of the comments when it comes to in-dept ways of fixing types:
- "Rock needs more resists, stee lis too good of a type"/"rock needs more resists omg"(If pastebin allowed screenshots I would post this as they both are legit), literally make Steel version 0.8, 10/10 improvement to Rock.
- "Just make rock resist Fairy", This doesn't actually change anything as people are already using Steel for this in addition.
- "Make Normal resistant to Fairy" This is the only one that actually holds any substance, as you wouldn't see "caring nature magic" do well vs farm animals and pets. If it weren't for Bug to be such an illogical matchup that everyone agrees should change,
- "i actually think it's fine. gamefreak already knows not to make another avulugg again(clearly show with galarian darmanitan) but if they were to make one they'd have to give it a good second typing." Except they didn't at all, if anything, it's now completely certain they want Ice to be intentionally slow, neither can anyone that plays competitive agree on saying Ice is a balanced typing. While Ice excells at offense, Ice is slower than the average mon by design concept. To name a few that you can't overlook from just the recent generation; Frosmoth; THE slowest butterfly/moth, Mr. Mime-G is slower than regular mime and becomes even slower even evolving into a pokemon said to completely freeze something by touch(hence its tip-tapping as it would otherwise freeze in-place). Eiscue gets faster by no longer being Ice, hence the form No-Ice when its Ice Face breaks. Darmanitan-Galar is a 1:1 with regular darmanitan stats again getting faster "When it enters Zen Mode, the dormant flame sac reignites back to life." Literally only Ninetales-Alola contradicts this. In addition, of all current legendary's Regice and Articuno are still the lowest not counting Phione/Calyrex who don't have normal legendary stats with all legendary limits still in place. To add to the ignorance, he even admitted to saying it would need a better secondary typing if they made it again, thus Ice being a horrible typing for defensive uses. Which implies the majority of Ice type pokemon by that logic would remain bad as the majority have Speed as their lowest/Second lowest stat, Bulbapedia even has an accumulation for this exact thing.
- Other proposed idea's that aren't too stupid:
- "Make Rock ignore Flinch" would have a similar effect as the Fighting-type weakness being removed. Would make Rock-types loads better for doubles than singles however.
- "Normal/Grass to resist Fairy" Even after all I have listed it would leave Grass and Normal as "worst" typings. And while I doubt you could keep buffing each typing to relevancy, this change can make sense. You wouldn't see "caring nature magic" do well vs farm animals and pets. Neither would you expect that same nature magic to be too destructive to the nature it cares for. However this change in addition to the other ones I have proposed could lead to another issue; Dragon to become strong again. While Ice gets better, both Steel and Fairy have to become worse than they are right now and this leaves the Dragon typing free to do as it pleases. So I doubt we did see too many nerfs to either Steel or Fairy thanks to that exact reason, even if more dominant.
- "No, Rock gets 50% boost to Sp.Def already in Sand. That’s insane. Let’s do the same for Ice with Hail except it increases Defence by 50%." Gamefreak sucks at buffing types, there is no excuse for how horribly bad Aurora Veil is for balancing the typing. It selectively made a handful of pokemon of a certain ability better and proceeding to fuse together set up spam with hail only for it to be a turbo version of set up spam with equally little qualities. You run a hail setter and in addition can run a Slush Rush hail abuser like Sandslash-Alola or Arctovish and put Aurora Veil as back up. That turbo core in fact has stupid reliable set up for lower tiers leading to its ban for 2 generations in a row. It went to the extent of having to run Brick break on Slowbro just to have a way of removing it on a pokemon able to also check the set up spam abusers. However in regards to this defensive buff, it would certainly help essentially all ice types a bit as they all have hail related abilities, even if they barely do anything often seen as "good" like Ice Body's almost irrelevant recovery when implied it is limited in duration. With this in mind, you would again want to look at Slush Rush users if you want to use Hail and likely even completely disregard Hail and just use a standalone hail abuser like Scarf Abomasnow/Vanilluxe with their new gained bulk to come in on Earthquakes and ignore other hail abusers exist as they don't do the things you want. Heck we got Slush Rush because gamefreak admited the other hail abilities weren't good enough in hopes to buff Hail. Which we got 2 amazing Hail abusers for in Arctozolt and Vish(which is on-par with Sandslash-Alola at least). You don't intend to run Scarf Vanilluxe with a Ice Body Whirlpool Perish Song Dewgong, so to me this buff failed in concept while you could consider running Dewgong after it gained neutrality to Electric attacks and a resistance to Ground. I know this would be in trend for Gamefreak, but it wouldn't help the game in the broad sense of having each pokemon become more viable, which they show more interest in having.
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- The entire reason pokemon existed was because bugs were big focus for the creator. Pokemon is designed after, not dog fighting, but bug fights and bug catching for collecting. Stag beetles or other beetles throwing other males out of a small "ring" to fight for a female, that was a big thing up until late 1990 alongside a trend that died out a little later: bug catching. Oh would they perhaps be used for collecting and possibly also battling???? Hence the name gotta catch them all, it's that blatant, but also part of why it worked so well in Japan. It's ignorant for people to constantly compare it to dog fighting/cock fighting as they know no better of where it could be based on, though not very different in concept. There are some articles by Kotaku, Vox, etc referring to the exact same interview with the man invented Pokemon and with a lead designer of gamefreak.
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- VGC16 A year that allowed legendary’s at 2 pokemon per team, and anything else that saw abundant usage was nerfed in the consecutive generation(s) at least one way or another.
- To name a few: Swagger’s accuracy nerf, Thunder Wave’s accuracy nerf, paralysis speed drop nerfed, Prankster nerfed, Gale Wing nerfed, Dark Void hard nerfed(Smeargle). Confusion itself nerfed from 1/2 to self-confuse to a 1/3.
- Psywave/Grass Whistle removed(a singular tour spree of a Whimsicott hitting 4 whistles, with one miss being a double down onto a target already asleep to avoid wake-up and in the end determining the winner in 4 different tour games by RNG),
- Return removed, Sucker punch nerfed, contributing to Mega Kangaskhan’s oppressive usage and Sucker also for Mega Mawile for 2014-2016. Aegislash stat nerfed. Hidden Power removed, likely as a result of Thunderus-T's abundant presence and even mirror match up landorus-T using defensive sets with Hidden Power Ice(yes, even VGC doubles used this, not just Smogon Singles).
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- They mentioned Bug is higher thanks to U-turn despite the majority of Bugs not even getting U-turn. Rock is accounted more for defence by premis of most rock types being slow, despite its undeniable offensive superiority. Meanwhile Ground is accounted more offensively as higher up pokemon in OU are fast and thus more offensive, despite that being the exception, only the ones in OU are fast to begin with, most Ground types are below average speed, thus defensive aspect should be accounted equally, which they didn't. Ghost is higher for no longer being Pursuit weak, yet they agree isn't as good as the others in S. Dark is higher with a big part being Knock Off, despite otherwise being worse than Ghost and Ghost deserves to remain S. See the contradiction in the last 2 sentences. Now add in that they said Ground to be between S and A. They do bring up an aspect all the other lists tend to miss; Grass has higher base power moves available to all of their type. This still gives the overview on roughly how good each type is.
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