Shroom 4:11 PM still not feeling well

<Shroom> 4:12 PM still not feeling well
<Karyete> 4:17 PM Sorry to hear that :c
I have a bad feeling about more people leaving the site y'know
<Shroom> 4:18 PM right now I have a fight at two fronts
both with the staffing situation in general, and with the judging overhaul situation
<Karyete> 4:19 PM Well since nin got demoted I guess another person will take his place soon
personally I'm betting on Ven
<Shroom> 4:19 PM Ven would take a mod place anyway, since MP3 will also resign
<Karyete> 4:19 PM wait what?
since when is MP3 resigning?
<Shroom> 4:19 PM it was known for a while already
the first time she mentioned it, I was still purple
<Karyete> 4:19 PM Don't tell me she's leaving too
<Shroom> 4:20 PM no, not fully
<Karyete> 4:20 PM thank fuck
that would be depressing
<Shroom> 4:20 PM she'll either downgrade to SR or demote completely, but LDing still has a strong enough place in her heart ... either way, her loss is hurting
and she's also attending the LDC, I guess
<Karyete> 4:20 PM she just doesn't have the time to spare for being a glomod
that's understandable
<Shroom> 4:21 PM and it was planned that Nin could take her spot, and Ven would move up to mod
now there's gonna be both a new glomo AND a new mod from the lower team / the users (I hope)
the worst-case scenario is Raz becoming glomo and/or OJ becoming mod
<Karyete> 4:22 PM still shocked that nin left, that was totally out of nowhere
I could deal with OJ becoming a mod
<Shroom> 4:22 PM I couldn't. (at least I wouldn't like it)
<Karyete> 4:23 PM Not fond of OJ either, huh?
<Shroom> 4:23 PM I'm making a pastebin. I've just joined pastebin.com right now.
<Karyete> 4:23 PM What for?
<Shroom> 4:25 PM Putting in the recent PM conversation with him.
<Karyete> 4:25 PM ahh
<Shroom> 4:26 PM let's see if this works
http://pastebin.com/LEMWKvTC
<Karyete> 4:28 PM well I'm going to be honest here
OJ is kinda right, you ought to discuss it with all the staff
<Shroom> 4:29 PM If they all had a better attitude and were more mature, then yes
It's not a tiny little thing. Some of them are still egoistic, spiteful, intimidating and immature at times; they use "changing" synonymously to "enslaving myself" and one time that I DID unwrap a stuff talked through PM before, I was banned. Never forgetting that. I can smell that this is only intended to create more repression and bullying.
<Karyete> 4:29 PM He seems mature, but quite ticked off
<Shroom> 4:29 PM well, that's pretty much the same reason for me to use PMs to people I can trust
<Karyete> 4:29 PM They aren't bullying you, Shroom
The whole reason he's ticked off is because you didn't discuss it with all the staff
<Shroom> 4:31 PM Well, maybe that thing is the aftermath of bullying
I was literally overthrown and bullied out of my position, and still am
<Karyete> 4:31 PM That isn't how it went. The staff agreed that they didn't think you were ready to have the position.
Saying you were "overthrown" is exaggerating a little
<Shroom> 4:32 PM I was absolutely ready. They've wiped me out for personal reasons only.
<Karyete> 4:32 PM Like I've said before, you and the other staff have very different views
<Shroom> 4:32 PM Half of the team is a mess, bluntly said
you can only hope that there will be a total reconstruction
Ven should be glomo, me and Yuri should be mods, and MP3, you, Mega and OJ (reluctantly) should be SRs. Simple as that.
<Karyete> 4:33 PM This is your opinion though. I know you have your views and your opinion, but sometimes things just can't be exactly how you want them
Your opinion may be clouded slightly because you don't feel they've treated you well.
<Shroom> 4:34 PM I'm actually starving for this to happen though, after I've got soo much severe drubbing
and they treated me badly and still do, I don't wanna discuss that.
<Karyete> 4:35 PM Once again, it falls back to you and the staff team having very different ideas
and both of you eager to put your ideas into practice
<Shroom> 4:35 PM ... because some of them are just downright lacking competence at times? Also:
"<Raz> Stop talking to me then, maybe that'll fix me
<Raz> I'm done with you
<Raz> Completely
<Raz> You have shown not just me, but everyone in the staff exactly what I've been saying since day 1: that you have not changed and everything every single member in the staff has said to you has changed nothing. And with that, I see no need to continue with you because it'll change nothing. There is no one I could care less about talking to than someone like you who refuses to accept anything."
That TOTALLY doesn't live up to me.
<Karyete> 4:37 PM I've said it before, and I'll say it again. You're stubborn, but in moderation that isn't a bad thing
To be truthful though I've seen a couple of times where you've held onto an idea of yours longer than you should have
but if I'm also truthful that response is very over the top
<Shroom> 4:38 PM I'm not even as stubborn as you may think, I've accepted plenty of things. I've accepted that whining about judgings is wrong, and that standards on good and bad design are everything else than constants, and I've accepted that a bit of patience is needed here and there.
Even if I struggle with patience sometimes.
And again, if I didn't happen to be confronted with intemperate, ignorant egoists, I could talk openly.
<Karyete> 4:39 PM But before you learnt to do that the staff still had to deal with it, and I think their tolerance of you is a little low
Of course, this is all just from a regular member's view
<Shroom> 4:48 PM There's no excuse for setting up such a repressive order as forbidding PMs. If you don't wanna call it "bullying", at least they simply want me to lose my protecting private sphere with Ven, Doram or BY.
<Karyete> 4:49 PM But it's called a staff team for a reason
They all decide what happens with the site, and they need to have their say
<Shroom> 4:49 PM I still say it doesn't deserve to be called a "team", right now.
It was all very polarized.
<Karyete> 4:49 PM Regardless, you can't really have a "private sphere". That isn't really how it works.
<Shroom> 4:50 PM Well, I at least imagine me saying relevant stuff to Ven, and he passes it further so that it doesn't fall back to me
Overall, I still don't regret having put my foot down on requesting Raz' demotion. Slowly but steadily he's leading all of us downhill with his smug and unwelcoming attitude. He's the evil, and you know, evil must die.(edited)
<Karyete> 4:53 PM Little bit over the top at the end there, but Raz's attitude does have to change
<Shroom> 4:54 PM but he refuses to it
and least he does right now
you know his hypocritical post
<Karyete> 4:54 PM the thing is he's used the excuse "that's just who I am, you can't change that"
which is a load of rubbish, he can change that
<Shroom> 4:56 PM Well, I guess there's noone in the world who can make him see currently, neither Ven or Doram (who seems to trivialize his attitude to "he's just been a little mean", to my displeasure)
<Karyete> 4:57 PM Doesn't matter if he's 'just a little' mean. Make sure he's not mean at all.
To be honest I used to be intimidated by Raz.
And I barely even spoke to him. It's just the general attitude I saw him have.
<Shroom> 4:58 PM Many have their stories to tell. I quite wish them to all come out of their shadows.
E.g. what I've heard from BY: Dr. Ocsid, when he tried appealing his ban, Raz has ALWAYS dismantled him while Ven and others didn't have a problem with having him back.
Worst_master was also dismantled. PY as well, Raz had a significant fault on making him mad. And who knows what else there is.
You're starting to see that my campaign has a commendable goal, don't ya?
<Karyete> 5:06 PM I completely agree. Raz is quite stubborn and mean himself.
What did Raz do to make PY mad though?
<Shroom> 5:09 PM Probably it was just the way he talked to him. E.g. using old B-O-T's comments to say ".tell PY don't spam and don't namechange constantly"
<Karyete> 5:10 PM oh, sarcasm and satire is a great way of getting your point across
/s
<Shroom> 5:10 PM Without the image at http://runouw.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=49444&start=110#p348002 I don't have his exact words, but they were even a bit more spiteful than what I've described.
Yeah, uncalled sarcasm is an issue you can attribute to both Raz and a few others as well (e.g. OJ, and MK who's demoted)
<Karyete> 5:12 PM I don't see OJ doing it that much
But MK had a bit of a sarcastic side to him
<Shroom> 5:13 PM Well, he's more controlled in public, but e.g. at the FoA incident you could sense it
That was just another tragic story. Actually, if you're a decent character, you don't just go there and constantly unlock another person's thread, and make mock to it being supposed as a locked thread. Not even in the FoA you would do that.
<Karyete> 5:22 PM It's the FoA, nothing there is serious
Nobody was mocking or bullying you during that
<Shroom> 5:23 PM Well, if I lock the topic for the 2nd time, they can still take that as a clear sign
even if nothing there is serious, it was still mean
Well, yeah. Both fucked up.
<Karyete> 5:23 PM You should have just messaged him kindly asking not to do it
There was no malicious intent behind it
<Shroom> 5:23 PM Probably my message was TOO kind for them
<Karyete> 5:25 PM on an unrelated note
check mah profile dude
<Shroom> 5:25 PM yeah, nice
you really deserve it
<Karyete> 5:26 PM thank you :3
you encouraged me to go for it so you get credit there
<Shroom> 5:26 PM Yuri also got it now. Though he'd really deserve something higher.
<Karyete> 5:27 PM When Ven PM'd me and Yuri last night I said it was a good choice to promote him
Don't worry, he's SR for now but I reckon he'll get himself promoted at some point
<Shroom> 5:28 PM Maybe with both him and you I could even get a majority on becoming myself staff again
even if it's "only" for SR, I'd be really happy with it
<Karyete> 5:28 PM I dunno man, they made it quite clear they're not keen to have you back without a huge attitude change
I mean, I'm not against helping you, but I wouldn't get your hopes up
<Shroom> 5:30 PM well, let's try it differently, will you try talking in the way of "Raz, either drop your meanness or leave"
<Karyete> 5:31 PM I've already decided that at some point I will try and talk to Raz about easing up on the attitude
But I'm not going to be too assertive, because that obviously doesn't work :p
Believe me, you aren't the only one dissatisfied with it
<Shroom> 5:33 PM Well, I still stand by saying that if he keeps bullishly refusing, he's not sustainable as mod and as staff member in general
and if it comes so far, my way would be free
then OJ could do whatever he wants :p
<Karyete> 5:33 PM In my opinion a good staff member is open to discussion.
And unfortunately, Raz lacks that quality a tad.
<Shroom> 5:33 PM "A tad" is good :>
<Karyete> 5:33 PM lol
I'll do what I can.
Currently my main focus is making sure newer members feel welcome to the site.
<Shroom> 5:36 PM I would work into the exact same direction, I even feel like the general rules could use a little revamp
<Karyete> 5:36 PM At the end of the day, new members are vital to keeping activity on the site
Without new members the site can't grow.
<Shroom> 5:37 PM and we claim to be one of the nicest communities one could find, anyway
sadly, some of that wen't lost, but oc it's possible to be brought back
<Karyete> 5:37 PM I think we're a little too comfortable in our small circle
<Shroom> 5:46 PM apparently, both with Raz leaving or getting his attitude straight, my way should be free in the sense that it shouldn't whang as much as it did before
what do you think
<Karyete> 5:59 PM I don't think Raz should leave the team, to be honest. I mean, he's got a sucky attitude, but he DOES get stuff done
On the other hand I don't see you and him ever seeing eye to eye
<Shroom> 6:00 PM "Getting stuff done" is something I also doubt a little; his mindset is sometimes not good for the site even beyond attitude stuff
<Karyete> 6:00 PM What I meant is
He does apply himself, he's not lazy about it
<Shroom> 6:01 PM well, he has made up for some obvious stagnancy
and when I tried to get stuff done myself, he was against it
pretty much for the reason you've mentioned
It would be a real relief if he left. Both Ven, Yuri and me could fill his position a lot better.
<Karyete> 6:02 PM I doubt it's just your ideas he's against. Like we established (and so has he) he's quite stubborn in his ideas
<Shroom> 6:02 PM Yeah, like you've said, a good staff member should be open for discussion
<Karyete> 6:02 PM Indeed.
<Shroom> 6:03 PM or let discussion happen at least
<Karyete> 6:03 PM Which is primarily why I think Ven should be promoted. In my opinion he's fantastic at listening to other people.
<Shroom> 6:03 PM That's unquestioned.
also I forget to state what I mean with Raz' mindset being not good for the site overall
not only repelling new members, but also wanting the team to be as small as possible and often saying "We don't need a replacement"
<Karyete> 6:16 PM He was definitely wrong about that last statement. The staff team was growing a little thin at one point
<Shroom> 6:31 PM also, for you thinking he shouldn't leave the team - under the presumption that he still refuses to be nicer, actually a moderator is also someone with an exemplary and authoritative function, and being intimidated by a regular member, or by a site rep who helps making decisions, or by a mod who could BAN you in theory, is a difference