5:54 PM]Exius <Dread>:
12/8/2019 - Alliance Meeting
Topic: The inclusion of Alliance of Kings, <AoK> within the Brynhildr Alliance.

- Introductory Statements
    - Moving forward past 12/8/19, FC meetings will have topics announced for FC's to discuss them with their FC's
    - Dates and times for the FC meetings are still under testing, and will be worked out soon

- Topic
    - After discussion and deliberation on this subject, AoK was out voted by 9 in favor of them not participating

- Miscellaneous Notes
    - Starting next week, positions for volunteers of events will be posted
    - Debate on how positions function in Discord are to be worked out
[5:55 PM]Zack Asheron:I don't have pin powers
Lucina Alastairi <Bast> pinned a message to this channel. See all the pins.Yesterday at 5:55 PM
[5:55 PM]Lucina Alastairi <Bast>:boom
[5:55 PM]Exius <Dread>:bam
[5:56 PM]Zack Asheron:Ty ty
[6:06 PM]Lucina Alastairi <Bast>:I wanted to apologize, by the way, for the knee-jerk reaction from me earlier. -Most- of the people who weighed in did so with grace and in a reasonable manor, and didn't let things devolve into personal attacks. I wanted to tell you all I appreciate that, even in the heat of discussion.
[6:07 PM]Exius <Dread>:I can absolutely agree, despite the negative feelings it was handled well.
[6:19 PM]Ambarone Vincarna <Melyn>:@Kimber Tambo <W.T.F> lol all caught up?
[6:49 PM]Kimber Tambo <W.T.F>:I guess.
[6:49 PM]Kimber Tambo <W.T.F>:Exclusion is silly is all I have to say.
[6:51 PM]Janremi:Was that what this was all about? I missed everything earlier, read a few things, but don't have time to read through all of this.
[6:51 PM]Ambarone Vincarna <Melyn>:@Janremi There’s a small tldr above.
[6:51 PM]Jireen WARN: Lala will bite END:I will give you the cliffnotes via voice tomorrow as well Jan
[6:52 PM]Janremi:ok
[8:57 AM]Lucina Alastairi <Bast>:Good morning. I know there's somewhat of an atmosphere of 'aftermath' here after last night, but I wanted everyone to know that in the interest of making sure these wrinkles get ironed out smoothly, the mods and I have reached out to Zack privately to debrief what happened and ensure we're all working together in the best interests of this Discord, the Bryn Alliance, and the server as a whole. If anyone has any questions, there is a short recap of the meeting pinned to the channel, but we'll be happy to answer any questions you have (within reason, and within the best of our timing). Thanks again to everyone for their continued patience and civility as we work through things.
[9:03 AM]JasonSmith:Thanks
[2:45 PM]Hippolyta Starwind <Lordz>:I also encourage the FC leaders who are reading up about this to put their thoughts out there as well. We take all things into consideration as we have discussions.
[3:02 PM]Janremi:What are we supposed to be giving thoughts on?  Reading the notes it seems people already voted to exclude the FC, or is that being reconsidered now?
[3:22 PM]Zack Asheron:No, the verdict was reach and Hippolyta wasn't suggesting otherwise. Only the conduct in which it was held
[3:26 PM]Ambarone Vincarna <Melyn>:Until we have our meeting and are sure that we are all on the same page, please understand that nothing is guaranteed or set in stone.
[3:32 PM]Hippolyta Starwind <Lordz>:So until that time @FC Leaders please feel free to add your thoughts to the conversation :blush:
[3:32 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:No
[3:32 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:What's going on
[3:32 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:I was tagged
[3:35 PM]Amada Rendheart <7SoD>:>.>
[3:35 PM]Khaleesi Tyanu <Atlas>:yeah what are we making our thoughts known about exactly? how it happened or went down or something?
[3:36 PM]Ambarone Vincarna <Melyn>:Both or whatever you’d like.
[3:36 PM]Ambarone Vincarna <Melyn>:And if you don’t want to speak publicly please feel free to IM a mod
[3:36 PM]Lucina Alastairi <Bast>:Since the Alliance is in a bit of rebirthing period we want to make sure everyone has their voices heard (or at least the chance to)
[3:37 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:About what exactly?
[3:37 PM]Exius <Dread>:anything
[3:37 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:Wdym
[3:37 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:If you want my opinion you got it; I'm here
[3:37 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:Shoot questions so I'm not landing blanks
[3:37 PM]Sela Brightclaw <Solus>:I dont necessarily agree with the way things went down yesterday with the exclusion if AoK.  it felt like the kids on a playground talking about so kid to see if they can be in the club, and then openly voting not to have the kid in the club. I stand by my vote, but the way it went down put a weird taste in my mouth.
[3:38 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:In regards to AoK, I believed in the community vote and it spoke for itself. It was nice to be part of an overall talk, and not just some overlooked opinion
[3:39 PM]Kaikelx <HRZN>:Missing from tldr: what did AOK even do ? No idea what's going on
[3:40 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:Just toxicity regarding the leader, not the FC
[3:40 PM]Lucina Alastairi <Bast>:There's a pinned message in this channel with a TL;DR of the meeting
[3:40 PM]Kaikelx <HRZN>:It just says exclusion vote?
[3:40 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:Yep
[3:40 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:Basically the server voted to keep him or not in the alliance
[3:40 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:In regards to more personal standpoints
[3:41 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:You can scroll up to see mostly the discord side of it but
[3:41 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:The linkshell imo spoke of it better
[3:41 PM]Khaleesi Tyanu <Atlas>:uh, well, i think it was a huge oversight to hold the conversation without first even seeing if the person and fc being discussed was even in the chat to begin with. seemed a bit...rude... i guess is the best word. and if you wanted to approach them about the subject, they should have been aware prior to bringing it up to the rest of the alliance and running the vote. i have no eggs in the basket of either inclusion or exclusion, as i know there are those who have bad blood with the fc and the leaders but it all just seemed in extremely poor taste. so the vote in the end doesn't really matter to me. i believe going forward, for meetings, the topics need to be presented ahead of time instead of just "show up and find out". this exists to make a more welcoming and friendly brynhildr but the whole thing yesterday felt like a setup and that's kinda uncool. i'd like everyone to work together and communicate better going forward but i understand it can be difficult to get on the same page or have schedules line up for other meetings in the future. sorry this is a bit unorganized and long, i'm working on projects.
[3:41 PM]Zack Asheron:I agree with khaleesi
[3:42 PM]Sela Brightclaw <Solus>:yo same.  an itinerary/outline would be welcomed.
[3:42 PM]Khaleesi Tyanu <Atlas>:^ even if it's super basid
[3:42 PM]Zack Asheron:All simple solutions we can work on in the future
[3:42 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:It's hard because a lot of randomness happened
[3:42 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:As well as bad planning
[3:42 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:And overall miscommunication
[3:42 PM]Khaleesi Tyanu <Atlas>:- opening
- topic #1
- topic #2
- open to the floor
- conclusion

is a good layout
[3:42 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:An outline would just simply be a biased
[3:43 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:unless I'm mistaken on an outline for what
[3:44 PM]Khaleesi Tyanu <Atlas>:and outline for the meeting(s), like what  is planned on being discussed
[3:44 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:Oh wouldn't that just be a statement then?
[3:45 PM]Khaleesi Tyanu <Atlas>:basically just so we don't get blindsided by the topics or people make time out of their personal lives and it's something that could have been discussed without them i guess? like i'm in finals week, if i got @'d for a meeting but wasn't told what, just to show up and found out and i did and it was kinda unimportant?? i'd be pretty upset
[3:45 PM]Yitsy Bitsy <HsW>:If you're going to hold meetings -- topic points of discussion need to be sent to the great group beforehand. A majority of people don't have time to attend directionless "meetings." Recommendation is to create all the talking points that will be discussed and who is leading it  and send it out before time so people can decide if they want to attend.
[3:45 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:I would hate a callout to be unimportant
[3:47 PM]Yitsy Bitsy <HsW>:Re: AoK there is a disparity of the majority of the people here. Based on the vote that was held earlier, ~75% of the FC leaders here feel that that they will not be contributive towards a "inclusive" and "positive" discussion. There has been enough examples of their leader being salty/exclusive/dismissive of other's within this Discord to warrant it. Recommendation is to find someone else from the FC that can be a "spokesperson" if we want to be "inclusive" of all FC leaders.
[3:47 PM]Khaleesi Tyanu <Atlas>:even if it's something like  @ here, we plan on holding a meeting regarding the conduct of a particular persons harassing other players , that would be important to attend and i'd make time for it. but if it was @ here, we are having a meeting for a christmas event and it's in the middle of my study time, i'd know to check over the notes later instead of being taken from studying essentially
[3:47 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:I mean you could forgive that by simply having 2 chats for "discussion" And "events"
[3:47 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:To filter the @etc spams
[3:48 PM]Khaleesi Tyanu <Atlas>:ye that's just the only example i could think of on the fly, but you get my idea
[3:48 PM]Yitsy Bitsy <HsW>:Recommendation is to treat it more like a business and send out a word document with focus points/messaging and include time/when it's happening/who are the main contributors for the meeting.
[3:48 PM]Yitsy Bitsy <HsW>:Literally just copy this and send it before hand:

[3:48 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:Personally, I don't mind inviting an AoK member, but I wouldn't trust them not to invite their leader
[3:48 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:The hecc
[3:48 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:Am I in an office class
[3:49 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:My financial aid doesn't cover these extra credits
[3:49 PM]Khaleesi Tyanu <Atlas>:that's a fancy document
[3:49 PM]Yitsy Bitsy <HsW>:I do not have time to deal with people being toxic/harrassing towards individuals, I've already had enough of my members complain about the individual. So if you all need to include him for "inclusivity" go for it.
[3:49 PM]Yitsy Bitsy <HsW>:If this "Brynhildr Alliance" is going to be successful, people need to contribute to it. :/
[3:49 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:It is made BY the people, for the people
[3:49 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:But we can only see how it goes
[3:50 PM]Khaleesi Tyanu <Atlas>:like i said re:AoK, i have 0 eggs in the basket. if others have that much bad blood and they seem to be that terrible in general, i'm not against excluding the leader. but i also am indifferent about another representative, because it's more than likely just going to be a spy or just rewording what the leader wants.
[3:50 PM]Khaleesi Tyanu <Atlas>:"spy" used very loosely
[3:50 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:^
[3:50 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:I just think you bit the bullet by not including the leader
[3:50 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:Cause now the rest of the FC ain't gonna be any different
[3:50 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:But I can live with that
[3:50 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:But not my alliance
[3:51 PM]Crip El <EtO>:In regards to other leaders of AoK, you are going trouble finding one. I am an ex AoK Monarch(top role) and I have no negative feelings towards Sky or AoK, so this is fact not bias opinion. AoK is very large due to really high recruiting. Leadership does not stay long due to Skys temper and behavior. Small issues get blown up very fast, and people can very upset. Any leadership in AoK would only have 1-2 months in the FC.
[3:51 PM]Khaleesi Tyanu <Atlas>:i've had to deal with this exact kind of thing in different fandom related things and it's always a bad time, but i know others pride inclusivity over everything which is all well and good, but it could just be a circlejerk of arguing and getting nowhere
[3:51 PM]Yitsy Bitsy <HsW>:I honestly don't have time to deal with people that are going to belittle/harass/ just not care. So, a resolution needs to be found in the short term if this is ever going to come to fruition -- I envision that this is going to be a yearly spin up (my 2 :gil: ) with trying to get people together.
[3:52 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:Tbh I thought this was ended after the vote
[3:52 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:At the moment this is just kicking a dead horse while playing a broken record
[3:52 PM]Khaleesi Tyanu <Atlas>:^
[3:52 PM]Yitsy Bitsy <HsW>:Most of us here manage FC's with more individuals than what we have here, we all know people have to step up and own things. So, would recommend starting to flesh out process on how we take the next steps as an "alliance" and build towards the future.
[3:53 PM]Yitsy Bitsy <HsW>:My thought -- If an admin of this is going to "drive" the conversation, then start putting down people's thoughts/concerns and schedule the next meeting. We also need to know who the main drivers are, expectations, etc.
[3:54 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:^^^
[3:54 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:^
[3:54 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:^
[3:54 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:I enforce someone stepping up and actually being a leader
[3:54 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:As this is nothing but a banter
[3:54 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:With no end in sight
[3:54 PM]Yitsy Bitsy <HsW>:I already manage an FC with 300+ people and my time is extremely finite. I am happy to provide starting process, but I need clear ownership before I start using my time on this.
[3:55 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:^ my time is split finely but I'm always willing to spread thinner in hopes of success
[3:56 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:my FC is a smol one tho
[3:56 PM]Khaleesi Tyanu <Atlas>:i can try and assist another leader, as i'm a full time student rn. plus my fc is a baby at like 25 members.
[3:56 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:^
[3:56 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:Smaller than me but still
[3:56 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:XDDD
[3:56 PM]Yitsy Bitsy <HsW>:Recc: @Admin and @Zack Asheron to start the above and get to us with what is needed, and let us know who the main drivers are. Recommend googling DACI and applying the same methodology.
[3:56 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:Hope they've been reading
[3:57 PM]Hippolyta Starwind <Lordz>:We have been
[3:57 PM]Cecilia Kaisuri | HF:Good
[3:57 PM]Khaleesi Tyanu <Atlas>::thumbsup:
[3:58 PM]Hippolyta Starwind <Lordz>:I can tell u back when we had meetings they happened in discord, we sent out polls for times to attend that went out 2 weeks in advance. I moderated the VC and took the minutes. I then posted them here, main chat and on the reddit that Bryn had. So the format can be done the same way or even modified with the lovely document provided.
[3:59 PM]Khaleesi Tyanu <Atlas>:i need to go back to schoolwork but @ me directly if i'm needed thanks for listening to my thoughts
[3:59 PM]Hippolyta Starwind <Lordz>:Lol thanks Khaleesi
[4:02 PM]Aston Lich <<LEWD>>:I rarely talk here but I was pinged so... my thoughts on AoK is that their members I’ve never had an issue with, their leader(s) I’ve seen a lot of toxicity and dealt with the leader themself a long while back. Don’t mind if their members come or not. You can’t really judge members of an FC based on who leads the FC.
I’m never really on for FC meetings since it happens when I’m at work or driving so notes and stuff are good :thumbsup:
[4:04 PM]Hippolyta Starwind <Lordz>:Thank u for answering the ping. We definitely try not to use it but this was a matter that we wanted to make sure everyone was aware of and got a chance to speak on. I will always recommend notes for people who cant attend because life happens.
[4:06 PM]Ambarone Vincarna <Melyn>:I agree @Yitsy Bitsy <HsW>  that people need to be well informed about the meeting in enough time to make plans to attend if they want to
[4:06 PM]JasonSmith:Oh?
[4:07 PM]JasonSmith::blush:
[4:09 PM]Ambarone Vincarna <Melyn>:I do apologize as well if I handled things poorly yesterday. One of my concerns that I would like people to please understand is that the mods were being treated like we were unwilling to give in to the community wishes which isn’t true. My true concern was that only about a quarter people labeled as fc leaders actually voted and I don’t want to assume that’s the will of people as a whole without a bit more weigh in which is why I’m glad we are having this conversation.
[4:10 PM]Zack Asheron:I'm regards to inclusion of every here presently and setting up a hierarchy for the alliance here, yes that has been brought up before and no one person (myself) will be responsible for the direction this alliance takes. It's for everyone and should be run by those who have time and are willing to sacrifice and step up
[4:11 PM]Ambarone Vincarna <Melyn>:Can I clarify @Zack Asheron you’re saying it’ll be a group of people with equal rights and nobody is leading (though one person may be keeping people on task)?
[4:11 PM]Zack Asheron:Yes precisely
[4:12 PM]Zack Asheron:I often say too little in too much. Sorry about that
[4:12 PM]Ambarone Vincarna <Melyn>:I think it’s good we all had some time and space to process.
[4:12 PM]Ambarone Vincarna <Melyn>:No it’s fine I just don’t want to misunderstand you.
[4:13 PM]Zack Asheron:Just to speak my own opinion on a comment earlier on judging an fc by the fc leader, that should be the standard for how we judge a fc as a whole. The leader should represent the interest and formality of the fc as a whole
[4:14 PM]Ambarone Vincarna <Melyn>:Would you consider then a separate group/role in the discord? A lot of people here are as they’ve stated busy. People that would like to be directly involved with this group as it is could maybe have a ‘Bryn alliance’ role and channel for people that voluntarily want to be involved?
[4:14 PM]Zack Asheron:The reverse isn't true, can't judge a fc on just one member. But you can by the leader
[4:14 PM]Zack Asheron:Or should in this case
[4:15 PM]Kaikelx <HRZN>:My own thoughts is that it seems like I'm only ever pinged back here when some big drama thing goes down. I'm not quite sure what the purpose or direction of the alliance will be, but it's clear to me that it's above my head and I have little interest in politicking or intra FC drama. Best of luck to you all
[4:15 PM]Zack Asheron:@Ambarone Vincarna <Melyn> that's something we will have to discuss Thursday