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  4. Upcoming Sov Changes
  5. Started by Juliette Moran, Mar 03 2015 05:40 PM
  6. sovereignty
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  17. #1 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #1] Juliette Moran
  18.  
  19. Newbie
  20. Nulli Secunda
  21. Pip
  22. 9 posts
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  24. Corporation Name:Ordo Drakonis
  25. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  26.  
  27. Posted 03 March 2015 - 05:40 PM
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  29. For those who haven't read em:http://community.eve...by-other-means/
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  33. No more sov structure bashes and I think that the occupancy mechanic is just bad and isint of any real benefit. It doesnt help smaller groups becuase if a larger entity wants a system they can still kill their fleet and no more system claiming for them. It doesnt matter how long you have to sit beside the structure for.
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  41. #2 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #2] Aiwha
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  43. Advanced Member
  44. Nulli Secunda
  45. PipPipPip
  46. 201 posts
  47.  
  48. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  49. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  50.  
  51. Posted 03 March 2015 - 05:45 PM
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  53. The only reason to hold sov now is for bragging rights. I dunno about you, but I like our sov because of the billions a month we pull in from renters,
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  57. ejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gif
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  63. "FUCK YOU" - Jean Leaner 20always
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  69. #3 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #3] Gilbaron
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  71. Advanced Member
  72. Nulli Secunda
  73. PipPipPip
  74. 182 posts
  75.  
  76. Corporation Name:Free-Space-Ranger
  77. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  78.  
  79. Posted 03 March 2015 - 05:51 PM
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  81. splitting sov into three different parts is a great idea
  82.  
  83.  
  84.  
  85. the TCU allows someone to put a name on the system
  86.  
  87. the ihub provides financial benefits for the owner
  88.  
  89. the station provides a logistical advantage
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  93. the capture mechanic however is some seriously fucked up shit.
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  103. #4 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #4] Rise Altol
  104.  
  105. Advanced Member
  106. Nulli Secunda
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  108. 78 posts
  109.  
  110. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  111. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  112.  
  113. Posted 03 March 2015 - 05:52 PM
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  115. That Primetime thing really kills sov for me to be honest. 4 hours to take sov ? A restriction in a sandbox is never a good thing
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  125. #5 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #5] Juliette Moran
  126.  
  127. Newbie
  128. Nulli Secunda
  129. Pip
  130. 9 posts
  131.  
  132. Corporation Name:Ordo Drakonis
  133. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  134.  
  135. Posted 03 March 2015 - 06:05 PM
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  137. Rise Altol, on 03 Mar 2015 - 6:52 PM, said:
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  139. That Primetime thing really kills sov for me to be honest. 4 hours to take sov ? A restriction in a sandbox is never a good thing
  140.  
  141. its 48 hours to take sov, the prime time thing just means that the timer will be coming out sometime randomly during that 4 hour time
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  149. #6 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #6] Retmas
  150.  
  151. Advanced Member
  152. Nulli Secunda
  153. PipPipPip
  154. 292 posts
  155.  
  156. LocationSterling VA
  157. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  158. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  159.  
  160. Posted 03 March 2015 - 06:07 PM
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  162. Rise Altol, on 03 Mar 2015 - 6:52 PM, said:
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  164. That Primetime thing really kills sov for me to be honest. 4 hours to take sov ? A restriction in a sandbox is never a good thing
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  166.  
  167.  
  168. it basically means that EVE will devolve into three/four timezone 'zones'. nobody from outside those zones will be able to exert any control - the only threat would be another timezone-specific entity, and intelligent recruiting will make that virtually impossible.
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  172. these changes arent what EVE needs. at all.
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  180. WInning EVE, one bureaucratic dithering at a time!
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  186. #7 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #7] Retmas
  187.  
  188. Advanced Member
  189. Nulli Secunda
  190. PipPipPip
  191. 292 posts
  192.  
  193. LocationSterling VA
  194. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  195. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  196.  
  197. Posted 03 March 2015 - 06:08 PM
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  199. Juliette Moran, on 03 Mar 2015 - 7:05 PM, said:
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  201. its 48 hours to take sov, the prime time thing just means that the timer will be coming out sometime randomly during that 4 hour time
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  205. nope.
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  209. you have a 4h window to put things in reinforce AND a 4h window in which your reinforcement will come out in.
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  213. it's stupid.
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  221. WInning EVE, one bureaucratic dithering at a time!
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  227. #8 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #8] blazigen
  228.  
  229. Advanced Member
  230. Nulli Secunda
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  232. 69 posts
  233.  
  234. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  235. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  236.  
  237. Posted 03 March 2015 - 06:08 PM
  238. Doesnt matter its a fucked up really bad thought out system.
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  248. #9 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #9] Juliette Moran
  249.  
  250. Newbie
  251. Nulli Secunda
  252. Pip
  253. 9 posts
  254.  
  255. Corporation Name:Ordo Drakonis
  256. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  257.  
  258. Posted 03 March 2015 - 06:10 PM
  259.  
  260. Retmas, on 03 Mar 2015 - 7:08 PM, said:
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  262. nope.
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  265.  
  266. you have a 4h window to put things in reinforce AND a 4h window in which your reinforcement will come out in.
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  270. it's stupid.
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  272. Sorry, yeah, just reread that part
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  280. #10 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #10] Gilbaron
  281.  
  282. Advanced Member
  283. Nulli Secunda
  284. PipPipPip
  285. 182 posts
  286.  
  287. Corporation Name:Free-Space-Ranger
  288. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  289.  
  290. Posted 03 March 2015 - 06:23 PM
  291.  
  292. 4 hour timeframe during which you can provoke a sov capture event
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  296. 48 hours wait after successfull provocation for the event to start
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  298.  
  299.  
  300. event starts at a random point within that 4 hour timeframe and goes on until finished
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  304. you need to successfully entose ten more of these command nodes than the enemy (?) to end the capture event in your favor. the event will go on until this has been achieved, with the spawnrate increasing over time
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  314. #11 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #11] Adaros Pantelesis
  315.  
  316. Newbie
  317. Nulli Secunda
  318. Pip
  319. 3 posts
  320.  
  321. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  322. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  323.  
  324. Posted 03 March 2015 - 07:34 PM
  325. Shit system. Im impressed how CCP managed to come up with this mechanic after all these years.. Im sure/I hope we'll see alot of tweaking the comming months
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  333. #12 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #12] Lurifax
  334.  
  335. Advanced Member
  336. Nulli Secunda
  337. PipPipPip
  338. 90 posts
  339.  
  340. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  341. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  342.  
  343. Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:01 PM
  344.  
  345. Please undock and drop a can. Set orbit to 2500m. Welcome to 0.0 warfare. Supers, carriers and dreads just become overkill for tower bashing.
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  349. And the freeport mode wtf? Not even FW get something that retarded.
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  352.  
  353. Edit; All we wanted was destructible stations.
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  357. Nulli 2014; Basicly, we are a lowsec Alliance with 0.0 renter space doing RvB war.
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  363. #13 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #13] Sludgeface
  364.  
  365. Advanced Member
  366. Nulli Secunda
  367. PipPipPip
  368. 96 posts
  369.  
  370. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  371. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  372.  
  373. Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:12 PM
  374.  
  375. does anyone want my stuff
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  385. #14 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #14] Lurifax
  386.  
  387. Advanced Member
  388. Nulli Secunda
  389. PipPipPip
  390. 90 posts
  391.  
  392. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  393. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  394.  
  395. Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:15 PM
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  397. Sludgeface, on 03 Mar 2015 - 9:12 PM, said:
  398.  
  399. does anyone want my stuff
  400.  
  401. contract it
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  405. Nulli 2014; Basicly, we are a lowsec Alliance with 0.0 renter space doing RvB war.
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  411. #15 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #15] blazigen
  412.  
  413. Advanced Member
  414. Nulli Secunda
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  416. 69 posts
  417.  
  418. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  419. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  420.  
  421. Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:19 PM
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  423. Its almost nauseating or however the fuck you write it
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  433. #16 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #16] Aiwha
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  435. Advanced Member
  436. Nulli Secunda
  437. PipPipPip
  438. 201 posts
  439.  
  440. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  441. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  442.  
  443. Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:24 PM
  444.  
  445. I am talking all stuff too. I mean, even if nullsec sov gets fucked, I'm not gonna stop playing EVE. We'll just adapt and nullsec will die.
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  449. ejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gifejraE.gif
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  454.  
  455. "FUCK YOU" - Jean Leaner 20always
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  461. #17 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #17] Guderian3
  462.  
  463. Advanced Member
  464. Nulli Secunda
  465. PipPipPip
  466. 316 posts
  467.  
  468. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  469. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  470.  
  471. Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:33 PM
  472.  
  473. These changes seem underwhelming. It will probably kill renter empires but won't do much else. Space needs to be balkanized and there' needs to be an incentive to take it. When anomalies were first introduced before incursions, droves of pilots joined the Northern Coalition and Providence because it was valuable. Then they were nerfed and incursions introduced. Space needs to be incentized to drive conflict.
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  481. #18 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #18] Alisyana
  482.  
  483. Advanced Member
  484. Nulli Secunda
  485. PipPipPip
  486. 176 posts
  487.  
  488. Corporation Name:Trans Secunda
  489. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  490.  
  491. Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:47 PM
  492.  
  493. I've been thinking this through all day. So far, here's what I've come up with that is going to take some thought as to what to do...
  494.  
  495.  
  496.  
  497. 1. The Vulnerability Period of each structure means there's a 4 hour window, each day, in which it can be attacked. If an alliance sets it's window to the same timer period, which would be a reasonable assumption, they need to be available for defending during that time each day, and the rest of the time zones there's no action. Other than roams, or RFing others.
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  500.  
  501. For example, let's say S2N times our stuff for 20:00-00:00, and Rusrus times theirs for 10:00-14:00, we can only be on the offensive during the 10:00-14:00 slot, and we're on the defensive during the 20:00 timer slot. Eve is then broken down to sov activity during specified time periods. No longer can we run our operations, sans POS shoots, when we decide to form, we're relegated to running ops specifically during those times that are open. This is more like "pre-arranged" fight scheduling.
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  503.  
  504.  
  505. 2. The simple means of using a module to capture sov is interesting, but because one single person could do it every day, it means holding things like ihubs and stations becomes significantly more difficult the more you have. Simply put, you could just put together 20 5-man fleets in intys, and go around disrupting everyone's sov during that window period. Unopposed stations, ihubs and TCUs can be RF'd into 1st timer in as little as 10 mins. 20 small inty fleets running around could effectively RF an entire region in an hour. Let alone, you can expect some rogue element to attempt to RF a majority of your stuff every day, meaning adopting a standing fleet status for each 4 hour vulnerability timer each day. Good luck getting much else done during that time.
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  508.  
  509. 3. Allied help is critical in keeping your sov infrastructure operational, but the mechanism of how it can be used places a high liability on the defense. Under new changes, defending is punished by the fact the all non-owner-entities of said structure count as attackers. The only value of a defender is to shoot the attackers, which brings back the N+1 mechanic to again converge on a station RF timer.
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  512.  
  513. 4. Freeport mode, is plain stupid. I'm sorry, but it is. What this means is not only does the attacking force get a place to repair and store ships and ammo, the N+1 mechanic allows them to perma-camp and bubble the station during this period, and they do not need to withdraw to resupply. You now have to drive them off, by undocking into a firestorm of TiDi and bombs, or call for help to push them off.
  514.  
  515.  
  516.  
  517. All this brings up the question - why hold sov? I tried to think of a few reasons:
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  519. 1. POS fuel bonus for the R64's. Valuable, but puts a beacon on the map where your towers are so any 5 man crew can come fuck with your fuel bill.
  520.  
  521. 2. I can't think of another.
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  524.  
  525. Now for Ihubs. They provide defensive bonuses and system bonuses. So, ihubs in JB systems, and ratting/mining systems are good, but then again it wouldn't really matter who owns the ihub, since it's a system bonus - not a bonus to your alliance, there's no reason you need to hold it when someone else can - and pays the bill. Currently ihubs are tied to the TCU as a multi-level sov function, so you must take them out to gain sov. With the new mechanic, the ihubs aren't all that useful anymore as strategic objects.
  526.  
  527.  
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  529. Stations. Who wants to live in a station after this and have to defend it every day, risking the billions in assets you have stockpiled, when you can easily go to an NPC station that can't be captured, doesn't need to be defended, and you risk nothing.
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  533. So IMHO, the clear future option for sov is a mobile group that utilizes a couple NPC locations, jump clones, and is near their income base of R64's and ratting/mining systems, because rental income just died and isn't really sustainable after this. it would be far more fun to run around in those 5-man fleets I described earlier RFing someone else's sov, and ransoming them to leave.
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  541. #19 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #19] Guderian3
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  543. Advanced Member
  544. Nulli Secunda
  545. PipPipPip
  546. 316 posts
  547.  
  548. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  549. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  550.  
  551. Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:56 PM
  552.  
  553. Alisyana, on 03 Mar 2015 - 9:47 PM, said:
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  555. snip
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  561. This is a good analysis. Your comments on the reasons to own sov echo a lot of people's opinions. CCP absolutely needs to incentive holding sov beyond R64's imo.
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  569. #20 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #20] Alisyana
  570.  
  571. Advanced Member
  572. Nulli Secunda
  573. PipPipPip
  574. 176 posts
  575.  
  576. Corporation Name:Trans Secunda
  577. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  578.  
  579. Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:58 PM
  580.  
  581. Canaris pointed out the N+1 mechanic is going to be trump card for any RF engagement, as well as any capture mechanism.
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  589. Guderian3
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  591. Advanced Member
  592. Nulli Secunda
  593. PipPipPip
  594. 316 posts
  595.  
  596. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  597. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  598.  
  599. Posted 03 March 2015 - 09:02 PM
  600.  
  601. Alisyana, on 03 Mar 2015 - 9:58 PM, said:
  602.  
  603. Canaris pointed out the N+1 mechanic is going to be trump card for any RF engagement, as well as any capture mechanism.
  604.  
  605.  
  606.  
  607. There's no way to even avoid that in a sandbox unless you artificially cap it. But CCP addressed how they think this will be managed in their post on how a proposed war would go.
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  615. #22 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #22] Rise Altol
  616.  
  617. Advanced Member
  618. Nulli Secunda
  619. PipPipPip
  620. 78 posts
  621.  
  622. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  623. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  624.  
  625. Posted 03 March 2015 - 09:11 PM
  626.  
  627. I am just waiting for leadership and csm responses to the sov changes. Can't imagine they like it and I really hope the csm can / is willing to change something before the sov changes hit tranquility.
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  630.  
  631. Also I am not really keen to move in small groups and reinforce something that I don't really want. Don't really think that is the point of a 0.0 home either.
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  641. #23 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #23] Siliya
  642.  
  643. Newbie
  644. Nulli Secunda
  645. Pip
  646. 3 posts
  647.  
  648. Corporation Name:Dirty Old Bastards
  649. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  650.  
  651. Posted 03 March 2015 - 11:32 PM
  652.  
  653. Rise Altol, on 03 Mar 2015 - 10:11 PM, said:
  654.  
  655. I am just waiting for leadership and csm responses to the sov changes. Can't imagine they like it and I really hope the csm can / is willing to change something before the sov changes hit tranquility.
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  658.  
  659. Also I am not really keen to move in small groups and reinforce something that I don't really want. Don't really think that is the point of a 0.0 home either.
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  662.  
  663. I hate to break it to you but CSM's power is limited at best especially when it comes to Fozzie making up his mind
  664.  
  665. I was in a C5 WH Corp when those changes went down ... my CEO Spoke to the WH CSM and was told that Fozzie was ignoring the pages upon pages of reasons why it was a bad Idea
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  673. #24 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #24] Xiru Keikira
  674.  
  675. Advanced Member
  676. Nulli Secunda
  677. PipPipPip
  678. 107 posts
  679.  
  680. LocationBible Belt, USA
  681. Corporation Name:Shiva
  682. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  683.  
  684. Posted Yesterday, 12:12 AM
  685.  
  686. that lowsec coalition going to cloudring doesnt seem so crazy now ~sugar kyle~
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  696. #25 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #25] Kiagon Fiero
  697.  
  698. Newbie
  699. Nulli Secunda
  700. Pip
  701. 3 posts
  702.  
  703. Corporation Name:League of xX420BLAZEITSWAGGOTXx.
  704. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  705.  
  706. Posted Yesterday, 01:40 AM
  707.  
  708. The system has some potential. Some initial thoughts:
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  710.  
  711.  
  712. Analyzing the proposal is difficult without knowing CCP's plan for Phase 3, which will presumably focus on changing how players use the space they own. Many major complaints focus around the lack of reasons to own Sov. The proposal would appear more palatable if the "bottom up" income sources coming in Phase 3 ( hopefully ?) allow large alliances to consolidate into much smaller regions of space and benefit greatly from upgrading that space and using it fiercely.
  713.  
  714.  
  715.  
  716. Problem: Forcing all meaningful defense into a 4 hour window creates dead time zones for people who want to engage in Sov warfare outside their alliance prime-time.
  717.  
  718.  
  719.  
  720. Suggestion: Once a structure is reinforced, secondary capture points spawn somewhere in the constellation at semi-regular intervals all throughout the 48 hour reinforce window. The secondary points would serve only to strengthen/weaken the Occupancy Defense Bonus. If the defender wins all secondary timers then the Occupancy Defense Bonus for the primary timer gets buffed by some meaningful %, If the attacker wins all the secondary timers then the Occupancy Defense bonus gets weakened for the actual timer. If they split timers then the bonus gets adjusted by a ratio relative to the number of secondary wins. It would give some benefits to alliances with more time-zone coverage, give off-tz members something meaningful to fight over, and yet not cripple alliances who are limited to a single time-zone.
  721.  
  722.  
  723.  
  724. Problem: The proposal eliminates the ability for defenders to successfully "blueball" and benefit from it, which is great. However, aggressors are still free to create timers that they have no interest in seriously prosecuting. The cost/risk to reinforce a system should scale with the importance of the system to the defenders and its usage. If Phase 3 allows alliances to condense into smaller regions then this problem will be partially alleviated because the density of defenders during prime-time vulnerability will be higher. The likelihood of exploding while trying to reinforce structures in heavily used systems scales with the population density. However, a 100% chance of dying in a T1 frigate is still essentially zero risk/cost. People should have to risk more than a single frigate to reinforce critically used systems.
  725.  
  726.  
  727.  
  728. Suggestions: They could make the module prohibitively expensive. However, I envision both sides losing many Entosis Link ships during raging battles, which is cool and not necessarily to be penalized. Alternatively, they could allow POS gun style defenses on each structure once the system indices reach a certain level. A system with 0/0 indices should have no guns allowed. The number/strength of guns allowed would increase with the indices. A mid-level system would require a few cruisers to deal with the guns before a frigate could reinforce it, and maxed out system would have defense equivalent to a death-star.
  729.  
  730.  
  731.  
  732. Problem: In a rolling battle for the capture points, gangs of slippery petes and muninns seem too effective at hit-and-runs on Entosis Link ships.
  733.  
  734.  
  735.  
  736. Suggestion: Entosis Link ship should be able to receive remote reps but the effectiveness of the incoming reps should decrease exponentially relative to how much damage the ship has taken in the last 1-2 minutes relative to it's HP. Once the link ship has taken 300% of it's HP in damage then incoming reps have scaled to 0. Therefore, gangs that control grid will have more than 1 volley to respond to hit-and-run snipers. Also there will be more tactical decisions about which ships to use as link ships and more decisions about the viability/benefit of targeting them first.
  737.  
  738.  
  739.  
  740. Problem: All attacking alliances work together but defenders are the only one who can play tug-of-war. Defenders are at too much of a disadvantage when faced with a coalition.
  741.  
  742.  
  743.  
  744. Suggestion: The attackers should work alone as well. If Coven and Afterlife attack our space then they win when Coven captures 10 or Afterlife captures 10.
  745.  
  746.  
  747.  
  748. Random other thoughts:
  749.  
  750. Spy importance: With mobility and fights bouncing around entire constellations, having spies in the enemy fleets will become even more important. Personally I think it sucks that alliances need to have professional IT teams out of game for counter-intel in order to have a prayer. Seems like a major hurdle for newer groups.
  751.  
  752.  
  753.  
  754. Capture Events will be weighted so heavily towards mobility. Battlecruisers and Battleships already have so much going against them. Mobility and constellation geography open up some interesting options.
  755.  
  756.  
  757.  
  758. The Occupancy Defense Bonus % should also give defenders some reduction in jump fatigue if their jump originates and lands within the contested constellation during the capture event.
  759.  
  760. + - 1
  761.  
  762. Quote
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  764. Report
  765.  
  766. #26 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #26] Alisyana
  767.  
  768. Advanced Member
  769. Nulli Secunda
  770. PipPipPip
  771. 176 posts
  772.  
  773. Corporation Name:Trans Secunda
  774. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  775.  
  776. Posted Yesterday, 01:58 AM
  777.  
  778. Despite any key objections and suggestions, the whole revamp concept brings forth a scenario where the risks of trying to live in 0.0 don't scale to the effort needed to push someone out. If the reward is higher to be there, it should take more to capture the space - to some degree. As it stands, a small gang of a few guys with no money, no heavy assets, and no high powered fleet can ruin the day for a 3000-man sov alliance in 10 minutes, and ruin their week because every other entity in the game is now their adversary. Defending space just became dumb to do.
  779.  
  780.  
  781.  
  782. As it stands, it would make more sense for us to move into 4GQ to protect and operate our R64s, and do what we can for local renting (if it's even viable), and/or provide a new revenue stream.
  783.  
  784.  
  785.  
  786. Or we can all move into the wormhole until they undo this.
  787.  
  788. + - 0
  789.  
  790. Quote
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  793.  
  794. #27 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #27] Eric Xallen
  795.  
  796. Advanced Member
  797. Nulli Secunda
  798. PipPipPip
  799. 346 posts
  800.  
  801. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  802. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  803.  
  804. Posted Yesterday, 02:00 AM
  805.  
  806. I think this mechanic is pretty shit, tbh, We've been punished twice now in sov (Phoebe and now this) and multiple times in capitals without any carrot on the horizon. I'm trying to figure out a reason for keeping sov when renters becoming completely untenable.
  807.  
  808.  
  809.  
  810. In the meantime, they opened up lots of new wormhole space, Thera, and there's been no nerf to income there.
  811.  
  812. + - 0
  813.  
  814. Quote
  815. MultiQuote
  816. Report
  817.  
  818. #28 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #28] Alisyana
  819.  
  820. Advanced Member
  821. Nulli Secunda
  822. PipPipPip
  823. 176 posts
  824.  
  825. Corporation Name:Trans Secunda
  826. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  827.  
  828. Posted Yesterday, 02:03 AM
  829.  
  830. 4.5b/hr Eric, 4.5b/hr
  831.  
  832. + - 1
  833.  
  834. Quote
  835. MultiQuote
  836. Report
  837.  
  838. #29 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #29] Inira Serra
  839.  
  840. Member
  841. Nulli Secunda
  842. PipPip
  843. 28 posts
  844.  
  845. Corporation Name:Pwn 'N Play
  846. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  847.  
  848. Posted Yesterday, 02:13 AM
  849.  
  850. Eric Xallen, on 04 Mar 2015 - 03:00 AM, said:
  851.  
  852. I think this mechanic is pretty shit, tbh, We've been punished twice now in sov (Phoebe and now this) and multiple times in capitals without any carrot on the horizon. I'm trying to figure out a reason for keeping sov when renters becoming completely untenable.
  853.  
  854.  
  855.  
  856. In the meantime, they opened up lots of new wormhole space, Thera, and there's been no nerf to income there.
  857.  
  858.  
  859.  
  860. Faction warfare!
  861.  
  862. + - 0
  863.  
  864. Quote
  865. MultiQuote
  866. Report
  867.  
  868. #30 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #30] Eric Xallen
  869.  
  870. Advanced Member
  871. Nulli Secunda
  872. PipPipPip
  873. 346 posts
  874.  
  875. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  876. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  877.  
  878. Posted Yesterday, 02:18 AM
  879.  
  880. If you could fund an alliance from faction warfare we'd be there already.
  881.  
  882. + - 0
  883.  
  884. Quote
  885. MultiQuote
  886. Report
  887.  
  888. #31 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #31] Mad Crafter
  889.  
  890. Advanced Member
  891. Nulli Secunda
  892. PipPipPip
  893. 42 posts
  894.  
  895. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  896. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  897.  
  898. Posted Yesterday, 02:20 AM
  899.  
  900. Alisyana, on 03 Mar 2015 - 9:47 PM, said:
  901.  
  902. I've been thinking this through all day. So far, here's what I've come up with that is going to take some thought as to what to do...
  903.  
  904.  
  905.  
  906. 1. The Vulnerability Period of each structure means there's a 4 hour window, each day, in which it can be attacked. If an alliance sets it's window to the same timer period, which would be a reasonable assumption, they need to be available for defending during that time each day, and the rest of the time zones there's no action. Other than roams, or RFing others.
  907.  
  908.  
  909.  
  910. For example, let's say S2N times our stuff for 20:00-00:00, and Rusrus times theirs for 10:00-14:00, we can only be on the offensive during the 10:00-14:00 slot, and we're on the defensive during the 20:00 timer slot. Eve is then broken down to sov activity during specified time periods. No longer can we run our operations, sans POS shoots, when we decide to form, we're relegated to running ops specifically during those times that are open. This is more like "pre-arranged" fight scheduling.
  911.  
  912.  
  913.  
  914. 2. The simple means of using a module to capture sov is interesting, but because one single person could do it every day, it means holding things like ihubs and stations becomes significantly more difficult the more you have. Simply put, you could just put together 20 5-man fleets in intys, and go around disrupting everyone's sov during that window period. Unopposed stations, ihubs and TCUs can be RF'd into 1st timer in as little as 10 mins. 20 small inty fleets running around could effectively RF an entire region in an hour. Let alone, you can expect some rogue element to attempt to RF a majority of your stuff every day, meaning adopting a standing fleet status for each 4 hour vulnerability timer each day. Good luck getting much else done during that time.
  915.  
  916.  
  917.  
  918. 3. Allied help is critical in keeping your sov infrastructure operational, but the mechanism of how it can be used places a high liability on the defense. Under new changes, defending is punished by the fact the all non-owner-entities of said structure count as attackers. The only value of a defender is to shoot the attackers, which brings back the N+1 mechanic to again converge on a station RF timer.
  919.  
  920.  
  921.  
  922. 4. Freeport mode, is plain stupid. I'm sorry, but it is. What this means is not only does the attacking force get a place to repair and store ships and ammo, the N+1 mechanic allows them to perma-camp and bubble the station during this period, and they do not need to withdraw to resupply. You now have to drive them off, by undocking into a firestorm of TiDi and bombs, or call for help to push them off.
  923.  
  924.  
  925.  
  926. All this brings up the question - why hold sov? I tried to think of a few reasons:
  927.  
  928. 1. POS fuel bonus for the R64's. Valuable, but puts a beacon on the map where your towers are so any 5 man crew can come fuck with your fuel bill.
  929.  
  930. 2. I can't think of another.
  931.  
  932.  
  933.  
  934. Now for Ihubs. They provide defensive bonuses and system bonuses. So, ihubs in JB systems, and ratting/mining systems are good, but then again it wouldn't really matter who owns the ihub, since it's a system bonus - not a bonus to your alliance, there's no reason you need to hold it when someone else can - and pays the bill. Currently ihubs are tied to the TCU as a multi-level sov function, so you must take them out to gain sov. With the new mechanic, the ihubs aren't all that useful anymore as strategic objects.
  935.  
  936.  
  937.  
  938. Stations. Who wants to live in a station after this and have to defend it every day, risking the billions in assets you have stockpiled, when you can easily go to an NPC station that can't be captured, doesn't need to be defended, and you risk nothing.
  939.  
  940.  
  941.  
  942. So IMHO, the clear future option for sov is a mobile group that utilizes a couple NPC locations, jump clones, and is near their income base of R64's and ratting/mining systems, because rental income just died and isn't really sustainable after this. it would be far more fun to run around in those 5-man fleets I described earlier RFing someone else's sov, and ransoming them to leave.
  943.  
  944. Eve always has been adapt or die. Nothing in this post is beyond adapting.
  945.  
  946.  
  947.  
  948. 1. This isn't much different then now, except that the off TZ people no longer need to RF anything as the first RF cycle has been removed. It's as if everything is in what would be now considered the shield timer all the time.. The difference now is that keeping enemy carebare activities down (roaming and cloaky camping) makes systems easier to attack, so we now have something more interesting to do besides structure shoot.
  949.  
  950.  
  951.  
  952. 2. If your entire region is being RFed and you don't do anything to oppose them you don't deserve that region. If all your timers are at or near the minimum to RF you are not using the space and likely don't care if someone takes it. A group that can respond quickly to threats will excel in this new style of warfare. Ironically I think brave will be one of the best alliances at defending their space.
  953.  
  954.  
  955.  
  956. If people are trying to RF our stuff every day that means I get to kill them every day. That sound great to me! You can still get stuff done, it just takes a shift in mentality. People who are active should be in a standing fleet, but doing what they want otherwise. When a threat shows up an FC steps up and says what ship types he wants. Everyone then drops what they are doing and get ready to fight. After the fight is over they go back to what they were doing. Interruptions can take as little as 10 min if people are fast enough. And yes, I've been in an alliance that did this, it can happen!
  957.  
  958.  
  959.  
  960. I do hope that "low fitting requirements" means 100 pg, or higher then 1000 cap/cycle so that frigs can't use it. Otherwise you'll see a lot of 8km/s, 140k lock range intis flying around doing the Entosis thing (links and snake set needed).
  961.  
  962.  
  963.  
  964. [Raptor, Entosis]
  965. Overdrive Injector System II
  966. Overdrive Injector System II
  967. Signal Amplifier II
  968.  
  969.  
  970. Federation Navy Sensor Booster, Targeting Range Script
  971. Federation Navy Sensor Booster, Targeting Range Script
  972. Federation Navy Sensor Booster, Targeting Range Script
  973. Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
  974.  
  975.  
  976. [empty high slot]
  977. [empty high slot]
  978. [empty high slot]
  979.  
  980.  
  981. Small Auxiliary Thrusters II
  982. Small Auxiliary Thrusters II
  983.  
  984. 3. Shooting the attacker is 98% of the fight. If you can't work with your allies to make sure you have at least a few of your own people with then to shoot the beam of light (I'm guessing that's what it will be) at the structure then you don't deserve allies. N+1 plays a smaller roll in the new system then it does now. The fight will be spread over the whole constellation, and the alliance that is the best organised and can adapt the the changing battle field will have a large advantage. That said if you have an Nx2 or more situation then theirs no mechanic that can save you.
  985.  
  986. 4. If your attacker can beat you two time in a row in YOUR staging system during YOUR prime time, AND keep a 23.5 hour/day hell camp on the station from the start till the end and their's no one you can call for help. Then you have problems regardless of the sov mechanics. Yes this gives some advantages to the attackers over the current system, but things have been weighted very heavily in favor of the defender for a long time. Also if you can force a free port on someone else's station then you can evac any assets you may of had their.
  987.  
  988.  
  989. Why hold sov?
  990. 1. So I can pew pew while we take it
  991. 2. It has no running cost, only the cost of a tcu to take it
  992. 3. So I can pew pew while defending it
  993. 4. So we can say "This is mine!"
  994. 5 So I can pew pew everyone who doesn't think we should have it
  995. 6. Seriously I'm in a sov holding alliance just so I can pew pew
  996.  
  997. Who wants to live in a station after this and have to defend it every day?
  998. People who want to defend it every day for one. And most people who live in one currently once they realize that key stations (the ones you likely have your stuff in) aren't going to be switching hand much more often then they do now. The difference is it's now easier to turn the station you just lost into a free port and then you have 48 hours to get your stuff out. Or just put an alt in an alliance that's blue to the new overlords, or fire sale it. Just like now.
  999.  
  1000. Renters?
  1001. We can keep most of our renters, we just need to be more active about it. I don't see that as a bad thing as it will lead to more pew pew.
  1002.  
  1003. + - 1
  1004.  
  1005. Quote
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  1007. Report
  1008.  
  1009. #32 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #32] Roman Lynch
  1010.  
  1011. Member
  1012. Nulli Secunda
  1013. PipPip
  1014. 27 posts
  1015.  
  1016. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  1017. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1018.  
  1019. Posted Yesterday, 02:31 AM
  1020.  
  1021. The only problem I see with renter and renting space is, NA. has to be in fleet to Entosis the things back into defender control. nobody else can do it..... So either we all have to have PvP alts in NA. or renter space needs to become Nulli space, and/or renters have to become members of nulli proper. unless they change the way we can defend it (based on standings make more sense to me, but w/e) OTHER than that... I like the new format, I like the idea, I look forward to fighting in this new system for Sov.
  1022.  
  1023.  
  1024. I wonder if the capture points in the constellation are going to have acceleration gates and ship size restriction... THAT could be fun :)
  1025.  
  1026. + - 0
  1027.  
  1028. Quote
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  1030. Report
  1031.  
  1032. #33 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #33] Alisyana
  1033.  
  1034. Advanced Member
  1035. Nulli Secunda
  1036. PipPipPip
  1037. 176 posts
  1038.  
  1039. Corporation Name:Trans Secunda
  1040. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1041.  
  1042. Posted Yesterday, 02:50 AM
  1043.  
  1044. Mad, we couldn't hold a region easily this way. Imagine this. CFC brings 1000 pilots consisting of several alliances to the final timer. They hellcamp us in station. We have to defend 10 spawn points that exist. Who's going to be able to do that? It's N+1, just as Canaris said. He who brings more people will wipe the others off, and because you're at an automatic disadvantage by defenders having to be in the defending alliance only, the attackers have the advantage from the start, and if the attackers have more numbers, they can cover the spawn points faster, with more numbers, and hinder our defense the whole time.
  1045.  
  1046.  
  1047.  
  1048. Now multiply that x10, becuase if someone's RFing your station, they're gonna RF the other shit too while they're there. Because it only takes 10 minutes and zero risk. Now you have the station timer, which you can try to defend by calling a fleet, but now you've also got 10 other timers in that window. Think you're gonna hold them all?
  1049.  
  1050.  
  1051.  
  1052. The only upside to this whole thing is if you're a small alliance that's trying to hold a couple systems or a constellation at most. 5-6 systems, tops. If that's the goal - breaking up the large alliances and blocs, it'll do the trick.
  1053.  
  1054.  
  1055.  
  1056. In b4 FredCorp.
  1057.  
  1058. + - 0
  1059.  
  1060. Quote
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  1062. Report
  1063.  
  1064. #34 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #34] Nituspar
  1065.  
  1066. Advanced Member
  1067. Nulli Secunda
  1068. PipPipPip
  1069. 201 posts
  1070.  
  1071. Corporation Name:Shiva
  1072. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1073.  
  1074. Posted Yesterday, 03:07 AM
  1075.  
  1076. This model is retarded in so many ways i don't even know where to start.
  1077.  
  1078.  
  1079.  
  1080. My biggest problem with it is probably that the impossibility defend any decent amount space due to lack of timers, anything outside one constellation you stage from will probably be undefendable for extended periods of time unless you significantly outnumber your opponent. This combined with extremely low-risk offense basically creates a situation where the best defense is the old -A- cockroach-sov tactic when faced with anything that's a realistic threat to you.
  1081.  
  1082.  
  1083.  
  1084. You just let your opponent take your space while sitting in NPC null, never undock while they're deployed there and just wait for them to go somewhere else out of boredom, and then take your space back. This'll essentially only result in more blueballs and less fights against any competent opponent who can assess whether or not you can take on the attacker. This is also implying that you'd want sov anyway with some future update, beacuse as it stands the only thing worth holding onto are R64's. Fuck even trying to hold sov with a system anything similar to this one suggested, when it has no feasible rewards anymore.
  1085.  
  1086.  
  1087.  
  1088. Also if the defenders have no, or minimal advantages in holding their space, no alliance will want to risk ever fully deploying into sov null again, when it only takes 2 timers of blobbing/hellcamping to lock all your assets until the attackers deploy away. On top of that any serious defense attempt just involves the bigger blob of subcaps winning all timers, to succesfully defend space it's not even a case of N+1 anymore, it's now closer to a case of N*3...
  1089.  
  1090.  
  1091.  
  1092. A couple very quick fixes that'd make this horrible system at least a bit better:
  1093.  
  1094.  
  1095.  
  1096. #1 Make the sov module a lot more expensive, 1bil+ each module would be a reasonable price in my eyes when you take into account that it throws alliances out of their space. This makes defense fleets actually interesting, and gives the attacker risk which simply doesn't exist at all in the current implementation.
  1097.  
  1098.  
  1099.  
  1100. #2 Limit the ship classes that can field the sov module, preferrably to capitals only, but possibly battleships and higher, again to add any risk whatsoever to the attacker
  1101.  
  1102.  
  1103.  
  1104. #3 Increase the amount of timers significantly. Probably threefold from this original suggestion, considering the attackers only have to go through 30ish mins or reinforcing an undefended region anyway. This makes holding onto space a lot more reasonable than the current implementation of you losing a structure whenever you lose one timer.
  1105.  
  1106.  
  1107.  
  1108. The system essentially lacks any kind of risk for an attacker, which is a horrible flaw. There needs to be something at risk for both attacking and defending parties to make equal fights happen. (Theoretically you could say that the investment/risk needs to be greater than the risk of losing the value of the fleet you're bringing out to fight for an engagement to happen.)
  1109.  
  1110.  
  1111.  
  1112. The current risk of a sov attacker is losing the time investment they put into attacking sov if they don't show up for the timer, and for defenders losing their space, and the defensive advantage that comes with it. Despite the criticism, this risk on both sides generates a lot more meaningful content than a system with 0 risk to the attacker ever will, regardless of the amount of clueless new people who enter null sov as a result.
  1113.  
  1114. + - 2
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  1118. Report
  1119.  
  1120. #35 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #35] Joshua Blue
  1121.  
  1122. Advanced Member
  1123. Nulli Secunda
  1124. PipPipPip
  1125. 76 posts
  1126.  
  1127. LocationSydney
  1128. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  1129. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1130.  
  1131. Posted Yesterday, 04:20 AM
  1132.  
  1133. N+1 is no worse under the changes than it is now. N+1 will always be possible, and in a sense I agree with it - the better organised and committed alliance should always win.
  1134.  
  1135.  
  1136.  
  1137. Dominion moved sov warfare substantially in favour of the defender. This is moving it back towards the attacker, which is sorely needed. It'll seem unfair and unbalanced, simply because of what we're used to. Remember that all it it takes to stop a sov attack is one Entosis link from one defending alliance member. With 250Km range, that's actually pretty damn easy.
  1138.  
  1139.  
  1140.  
  1141. It's not 10 minutes. For a well defended and occupied system you will have 40 mins to stop an attack. And to stop an attack all you need is ...
  1142.  
  1143.  
  1144.  
  1145. The Prime Time zone sucks. I think they should change it so that your sov structures are vulnerable for up to three periods of 12 hours in total in any 24 hour period.
  1146.  
  1147.  
  1148.  
  1149. The capture mechanic of multiple command nodes in multiple systems in the constellation is fucking awesome.
  1150.  
  1151.  
  1152.  
  1153. You should only be able to put up a POS if you have a TCU in system. That should be enough incentive to hold Sov.
  1154.  
  1155.  
  1156.  
  1157. Our rental empire is dead. It was bound to happen, and CCP have been flagging it for a while. RIP. Time to move on.
  1158.  
  1159.  
  1160.  
  1161. Supers are no longer required for sov bashing. This sucks for us, but is good for the game as a whole. Let's see what they come up with for supers in future before crying too much.
  1162.  
  1163.  
  1164.  
  1165. Shoot me. I like the changes.
  1166.  
  1167. -3
  1168.  
  1169. Quote
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  1171. Report
  1172.  
  1173. #36 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #36] Roman Lynch
  1174.  
  1175. Member
  1176. Nulli Secunda
  1177. PipPip
  1178. 27 posts
  1179.  
  1180. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  1181. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1182.  
  1183. Posted Yesterday, 04:20 AM
  1184.  
  1185. But... I don't see the CFC bring 1000 guys to attack our space, or any space for that matter, as then, who will defend theirs while they are attacking ours? When a large force like that leaves an area, they create a vacuum in their own space, and if they have the force to attack us with that many in OUR Prime time 4 hour window, then they have their 4 hour window set to the same for defense as well.... Besides, the more we use our space, the better or defense is (even if it is slight right now, I think this will change, i like the idea of 5/5/5 with gate and station guns... that are only active during our set prime time.
  1186.  
  1187.  
  1188.  
  1189. The freeport thing is cool in a way for attackers. I mean, you ref it once, then 48 hours later, if you win that... it's free port, then 48 hours later, it's up for grabs for anybody. That IS kinda cool. The "only defenders can entosis to stop it" is a hard pill to swallow, but I am sure there will be an effective way to do it once we figure it out (have blues kill the fleet, we kill the fleet, we then entosis it back to our side, or hold them off for four hours... :blink: :blink: :blink: )
  1190.  
  1191.  
  1192.  
  1193. it has some flaws, but I am sure they will take the best ideas and throw them away and make it worse somehow... :CCP:
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  1201. #37 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #37] Eric Xallen
  1202.  
  1203. Advanced Member
  1204. Nulli Secunda
  1205. PipPipPip
  1206. 346 posts
  1207.  
  1208. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  1209. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1210.  
  1211. Posted Yesterday, 04:37 AM
  1212.  
  1213. Here's what i imagine will happen in the first 2 weeks of the sov changes. Everyone will check to make sure the bugs are sorted out. Then the CFC will load up a squad of 200 interceptors, take a wormhole to omist, and reinforce all of omist. Then they'll go home.
  1214.  
  1215.  
  1216.  
  1217. 48 hours later, they'll come back, with those same 200ish ceptors via a WH, and proceed to blow up a dozen ihubs and freeport a bunch of stations while we scramble trying to save the others. Almost no fight will be had, because they'll just starburst across our space in solos and pairs.
  1218.  
  1219.  
  1220.  
  1221. Then we'll have the fun of fixing our sov. And the next week, they'll do ti again. Or we'll do it to them. And probably not fight at all, we'll literally go around mining sov in pairs while we smash peoples houses up for no reason other than petty vandalism.
  1222.  
  1223. + - 3
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  1228.  
  1229. #38 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #38] Eric Xallen
  1230.  
  1231. Advanced Member
  1232. Nulli Secunda
  1233. PipPipPip
  1234. 346 posts
  1235.  
  1236. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  1237. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1238.  
  1239. Posted Yesterday, 04:39 AM
  1240.  
  1241. And each iteration, it gets easier, because each time our sov occupancy drops and the timers get quicker.
  1242.  
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  1249. #39 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #39] Mad Crafter
  1250.  
  1251. Advanced Member
  1252. Nulli Secunda
  1253. PipPipPip
  1254. 42 posts
  1255.  
  1256. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  1257. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1258.  
  1259. Posted Yesterday, 04:44 AM
  1260.  
  1261. The big argument I'm seeing is "No one will want sov because everyone will blob and take away our sov." This is an oxymoron! It contradicts itself! If no one wants sov, then their will be no blobs taking sov.
  1262.  
  1263.  
  1264.  
  1265. Also their is a reason no sov holding alliance has done a major deployment far away from their home since Phoebe. This will be even more true after these changes since since things can go to crap back home even faster.
  1266.  
  1267. + - 0
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  1272.  
  1273. #40 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #40] Eric Xallen
  1274.  
  1275. Advanced Member
  1276. Nulli Secunda
  1277. PipPipPip
  1278. 346 posts
  1279.  
  1280. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  1281. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1282.  
  1283. Posted Yesterday, 04:46 AM
  1284.  
  1285. They won't TAKE the sov. They'll RESET the sov. They'll just blow up your ihub and freeport your station and kill your TCU and laugh because now you have to go spend billions moving goddamn freighters around buying new ihubs and upgrades.
  1286.  
  1287. + - 2
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  1292.  
  1293. Mad Crafter
  1294.  
  1295. Advanced Member
  1296. Nulli Secunda
  1297. PipPipPip
  1298. 42 posts
  1299.  
  1300. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  1301. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1302.  
  1303. Posted Yesterday, 04:47 AM
  1304.  
  1305. Eric Xallen, on 04 Mar 2015 - 05:37 AM, said:
  1306.  
  1307. Here's what i imagine will happen in the first 2 weeks of the sov changes. Everyone will check to make sure the bugs are sorted out. Then the CFC will load up a squad of 200 interceptors, take a wormhole to omist, and reinforce all of omist. Then they'll go home.
  1308.  
  1309.  
  1310.  
  1311. 48 hours later, they'll come back, with those same 200ish ceptors via a WH, and proceed to blow up a dozen ihubs and freeport a bunch of stations while we scramble trying to save the others. Almost no fight will be had, because they'll just starburst across our space in solos and pairs.
  1312.  
  1313.  
  1314.  
  1315. Then we'll have the fun of fixing our sov. And the next week, they'll do ti again. Or we'll do it to them. And probably not fight at all, we'll literally go around mining sov in pairs while we smash peoples houses up for no reason other than petty vandalism.
  1316.  
  1317. If these will work on frigs (which I hope they won't) then we just turn around and do the same thing to them, while also using inties to defend our timers. Sooner or later one of 3 things will happen.
  1318.  
  1319. 1. Both sides agree that taking sov with no fights no reason is not fun and agree to stop.
  1320.  
  1321. 2. CCP realizes that things aren't working as intended and changes it.
  1322.  
  1323. 3. A counter is found that makes this tactic ineffective.
  1324.  
  1325. + - 0
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  1330.  
  1331. #42 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #42] Guderian3
  1332.  
  1333. Advanced Member
  1334. Nulli Secunda
  1335. PipPipPip
  1336. 316 posts
  1337.  
  1338. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  1339. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1340.  
  1341. Posted Yesterday, 05:07 AM
  1342.  
  1343. What CCP needs to decide, and many many people have said this, is how many people working in a group is needed to hold x amount of sov.
  1344.  
  1345. + - 0
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  1350.  
  1351. #43 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #43] Xiru Keikira
  1352.  
  1353. Advanced Member
  1354. Nulli Secunda
  1355. PipPipPip
  1356. 107 posts
  1357.  
  1358. LocationBible Belt, USA
  1359. Corporation Name:Shiva
  1360. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1361.  
  1362. Posted Yesterday, 05:08 AM
  1363.  
  1364. Here I'll fix the sov change
  1365.  
  1366.  
  1367.  
  1368. E-links only work on Rorqs
  1369.  
  1370.  
  1371.  
  1372. suddenly everyone is happy
  1373.  
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  1381.  
  1382. #44 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #44] Jean Leaner
  1383.  
  1384. Is better than you
  1385. Administrators
  1386. 440 posts
  1387.  
  1388. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  1389. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1390.  
  1391. Posted Yesterday, 05:17 AM
  1392.  
  1393. This system does not generate fun. I won't be participating in it in its current form. Particularly since it removes the only reason to own sov: to rent it out.
  1394.  
  1395. + - 7
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  1402.  
  1403. #45 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #45] Jean Leaner
  1404.  
  1405. Is better than you
  1406. Administrators
  1407. 440 posts
  1408.  
  1409. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  1410. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1411.  
  1412. Posted Yesterday, 05:19 AM
  1413.  
  1414. Also, I love the people who won't actually do any of the work leading any of this going "Its great!", thats nice, you don't have to organize the defense of it. Until you do your opinion on whats great about a fucking organizational nightmare is worth nothing.
  1415.  
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  1424. #46 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #46] Inira Serra
  1425.  
  1426. Member
  1427. Nulli Secunda
  1428. PipPip
  1429. 28 posts
  1430.  
  1431. Corporation Name:Pwn 'N Play
  1432. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1433.  
  1434. Posted Yesterday, 05:41 AM
  1435.  
  1436. Jean Leaner, on 04 Mar 2015 - 06:19 AM, said:
  1437.  
  1438. Also, I love the people who won't actually do any of the work leading any of this going "Its great!", thats nice, you don't have to organize the defense of it. Until you do your opinion on whats great about a fucking organizational nightmare is worth nothing.
  1439.  
  1440.  
  1441.  
  1442. But I mean, isn't that kind of the point of this?... Of course it is bad for us, I don't think anyone is saying otherwise, however CCP is probably going to accomplish what they wanted; breaking up sov null to make it more accessible to people not in a large coalition. I mean it isn't done the way Nulli or N3 would want in order to maintain our renting empire obviously, but the chances of CCP making a decision regarding sov that benefited us was practically 0.
  1443.  
  1444.  
  1445.  
  1446. I am obviously sad that we are going to possibly lose a large chunk of our income that comes from renters if this plan goes through. However at the same time I have friends from old corps who are already planning and moving assets into position to take sov in scalding pass (some of which was formerly ours) prior to the patch coming out and be able to actually stand a chance to hold it which I think is incredible for them.
  1447.  
  1448. + - 1
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  1453.  
  1454. #47 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #47] Jean Leaner
  1455.  
  1456. Is better than you
  1457. Administrators
  1458. 440 posts
  1459.  
  1460. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  1461. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1462.  
  1463. Posted Yesterday, 05:47 AM
  1464.  
  1465. Theres a vast difference between making it hard to hold large chunks of space, and making it not worth the effort to hold ANY space. The way it is right now, sitting in NPC 0.0, dropping all sov, and holding moons only and fucking with the retards who think sov is a good idea is the way to go. Unless CCP pulls a rabbit out of their hat and makes a constellation generate a hundred billion isk in income for an alliance on its own, sov isn't worth the effort.
  1466.  
  1467. + - 8
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  1474.  
  1475. #48 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #48] Jean Leaner
  1476.  
  1477. Is better than you
  1478. Administrators
  1479. 440 posts
  1480.  
  1481. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  1482. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1483.  
  1484. Posted Yesterday, 05:49 AM
  1485.  
  1486. Heres a hint of whats to come: Someone decides to fuck with you thats bigger than you are, drops their entire fleet on yoru station, camps for two days, and evicts you entirely. Think it can't happen? You're utterly delusional.
  1487.  
  1488. + - 6
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  1495.  
  1496. #49 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #49] Alisyana
  1497.  
  1498. Advanced Member
  1499. Nulli Secunda
  1500. PipPipPip
  1501. 176 posts
  1502.  
  1503. Corporation Name:Trans Secunda
  1504. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1505.  
  1506. Posted Yesterday, 05:51 AM
  1507.  
  1508. Joshua Blue, on 04 Mar 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:
  1509.  
  1510. N+1 is no worse under the changes than it is now. N+1 will always be possible, and in a sense I agree with it - the better organised and committed alliance should always win.
  1511.  
  1512.  
  1513.  
  1514.  
  1515.  
  1516. N+1 has nothing to do with organization and commitment. The idea was to remove the N+1 meta, so holding sov didn't depend strictly on numbers. We're a perfect model for that. We don't have the numbers CFC has, yet we hold more space as a coalition. Lesser numbers, with better ideas, better fits, and the right tactics can beat larger numbers. This new idea strips that out and leaves us out cold.
  1517.  
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  1523.  
  1524. #50 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #50] Alisyana
  1525.  
  1526. Advanced Member
  1527. Nulli Secunda
  1528. PipPipPip
  1529. 176 posts
  1530.  
  1531. Corporation Name:Trans Secunda
  1532. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1533.  
  1534. Posted Yesterday, 05:56 AM
  1535.  
  1536. Jean. I upvoted you. Hell has frozen over.
  1537.  
  1538. + - 2
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  1543.  
  1544. #51 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #51] Guderian3
  1545.  
  1546. Advanced Member
  1547. Nulli Secunda
  1548. PipPipPip
  1549. 316 posts
  1550.  
  1551. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  1552. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1553.  
  1554. Posted Yesterday, 05:58 AM
  1555.  
  1556. I'm not sure a constellation needs to generate a 100b for top-down income, but it needs to generate some sort of fucking value for people beyond scattered R64's.
  1557.  
  1558. + - 0
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  1563.  
  1564. #52 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #52] Inira Serra
  1565.  
  1566. Member
  1567. Nulli Secunda
  1568. PipPip
  1569. 28 posts
  1570.  
  1571. Corporation Name:Pwn 'N Play
  1572. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1573.  
  1574. Posted Yesterday, 06:02 AM
  1575.  
  1576. Jean Leaner, on 04 Mar 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:
  1577.  
  1578. Heres a hint of whats to come: Someone decides to fuck with you thats bigger than you are, drops their entire fleet on yoru station, camps for two days, and evicts you entirely. Think it can't happen? You're utterly delusional.
  1579.  
  1580.  
  1581.  
  1582. Oh yes, I'm sure that will happen, that is currently and will always be part of the game. However with this new system if they don't defend and live in that space after taking it you will be able to take it back more easily than with the current system. If nothing else once they get bored of screwing with you you will be able to get into the freeport stage at some point and at least evacuate your assets.
  1583.  
  1584.  
  1585.  
  1586. Honestly I think this in many ways is a good change for null and is a good step forward to making sov null a more politically diverse space that isn't as empty and blued up. I don't necessarily agree with the way they have gone about implementing all of the systems they propose however obviously they would like input back since they released the dev blog three months prior to it actually going in the game.
  1587.  
  1588.  
  1589.  
  1590. I can completely understand why you as well as other N3 HC people would be upset about these changes, you've been helping build a coalition and sov null into what you wanted for years now, and it stands to be entirely torn apart in a matter of months. That doesn't mean that it is going to ruin the game or null itself, only that it will allow more people to get into null without having to be part of a large coalition.
  1591.  
  1592. + - 0
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  1597.  
  1598. #53 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #53] Jean Leaner
  1599.  
  1600. Is better than you
  1601. Administrators
  1602. 440 posts
  1603.  
  1604. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  1605. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1606.  
  1607. Posted Yesterday, 06:08 AM
  1608.  
  1609. Hint: I want the coalition gone and have for well over a year now.
  1610.  
  1611.  
  1612.  
  1613. Stop assuming you know jack shit about my thought processes and why these changes upset me. Once again, the only people who think theres anything good abotu this are the people who don't do anything except join the fleet and press f1. Notice that every single leader, from the FC's of this alliance, to the top of this alliance, thinks its aids. We know how much effort this will take to hold even one system, you don't.
  1614.  
  1615. + - 3
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  1622.  
  1623. #54 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #54] Jean Leaner
  1624.  
  1625. Is better than you
  1626. Administrators
  1627. 440 posts
  1628.  
  1629. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  1630. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1631.  
  1632. Posted Yesterday, 06:10 AM
  1633.  
  1634. Guderian3, on 04 Mar 2015 - 06:58 AM, said:
  1635.  
  1636. I'm not sure a constellation needs to generate a 100b for top-down income, but it needs to generate some sort of fucking value for people beyond scattered R64's.
  1637.  
  1638.  
  1639.  
  1640. with price points where they are now, 100b is a pittance. WE can go through that in under two weeks.
  1641.  
  1642. + - 0
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  1649.  
  1650. #55 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #55] Inira Serra
  1651.  
  1652. Member
  1653. Nulli Secunda
  1654. PipPip
  1655. 28 posts
  1656.  
  1657. Corporation Name:Pwn 'N Play
  1658. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1659.  
  1660. Posted Yesterday, 06:16 AM
  1661.  
  1662. Jean Leaner, on 04 Mar 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:
  1663.  
  1664. Hint: I want the coalition gone and have for well over a year now.
  1665.  
  1666.  
  1667.  
  1668. Stop assuming you know jack shit about my thought processes and why these changes upset me. Once again, the only people who think theres anything good abotu this are the people who don't do anything except join the fleet and press f1. Notice that every single leader, from the FC's of this alliance, to the top of this alliance, thinks its aids. We know how much effort this will take to hold even one system, you don't.
  1669.  
  1670.  
  1671.  
  1672. My apologies then. If you don't mind me asking, what is your opinion of Phoebe Freeport Alliance and the other smaller alliances slowly taking sov in that area? I haven't followed them as closely as I'd like to however they seem to be making it work.
  1673.  
  1674. + - 0
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  1679.  
  1680. #56 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #56] Eric Xallen
  1681.  
  1682. Advanced Member
  1683. Nulli Secunda
  1684. PipPipPip
  1685. 346 posts
  1686.  
  1687. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  1688. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1689.  
  1690. Posted Yesterday, 06:21 AM
  1691.  
  1692. Phoebe is my trigger word
  1693.  
  1694. + - 3
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  1699.  
  1700. #57 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #57] Jean Leaner
  1701.  
  1702. Is better than you
  1703. Administrators
  1704. 440 posts
  1705.  
  1706. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  1707. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1708.  
  1709. Posted Yesterday, 06:25 AM
  1710.  
  1711. I think they're cute and I offered to drop the sov on ct8k for them when they reinforced it.
  1712.  
  1713. + - 0
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  1720.  
  1721. #58 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #58] Praetoris Domitian
  1722.  
  1723. Advanced Member
  1724. Nulli Secunda
  1725. PipPipPip
  1726. 124 posts
  1727.  
  1728. Corporation Name:Shiva
  1729. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1730.  
  1731. Posted Yesterday, 06:55 AM
  1732.  
  1733. Eric Xallen, on 04 Mar 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:
  1734.  
  1735. Phoebe is my trigger word
  1736.  
  1737. Fuck yeah it is. :angry:
  1738.  
  1739.  
  1740.  
  1741.  
  1742.  
  1743. Jean Leaner, on 04 Mar 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:
  1744.  
  1745. Heres a hint of whats to come: Someone decides to fuck with you thats bigger than you are, drops their entire fleet on yoru station, camps for two days, and evicts you entirely. Think it can't happen? You're utterly delusional.
  1746.  
  1747. 0-W on steroids.
  1748.  
  1749.  
  1750.  
  1751.  
  1752.  
  1753. Jean Leaner, on 04 Mar 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:
  1754.  
  1755. Theres a vast difference between making it hard to hold large chunks of space, and making it not worth the effort to hold ANY space. The way it is right now, sitting in NPC 0.0, dropping all sov, and holding moons only and fucking with the retards who think sov is a good idea is the way to go. Unless CCP pulls a rabbit out of their hat and makes a constellation generate a hundred billion isk in income for an alliance on its own, sov isn't worth the effort.
  1756.  
  1757. Is there a plan in the works?
  1758.  
  1759.  
  1760.  
  1761. Also, is there any truth to all the rumors I keep hearing about CCP getting rid of moon mining?
  1762.  
  1763. + - 0
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  1768.  
  1769. #59 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #59] Lurifax
  1770.  
  1771. Advanced Member
  1772. Nulli Secunda
  1773. PipPipPip
  1774. 90 posts
  1775.  
  1776. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  1777. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1778.  
  1779. Posted Yesterday, 07:00 AM
  1780.  
  1781. "Also, is there any truth to all the rumors I keep hearing about CCP getting rid of moon mining?" That thing is old as fixing the pos code.
  1782.  
  1783. + - 0
  1784.  
  1785. Nulli 2014; Basicly, we are a lowsec Alliance with 0.0 renter space doing RvB war.
  1786.  
  1787. Quote
  1788. MultiQuote
  1789. Report
  1790.  
  1791. #60 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #60] Rise Altol
  1792.  
  1793. Advanced Member
  1794. Nulli Secunda
  1795. PipPipPip
  1796. 78 posts
  1797.  
  1798. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  1799. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1800.  
  1801. Posted Yesterday, 07:29 AM
  1802.  
  1803. Jean Leaner, on 04 Mar 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:
  1804.  
  1805. Notice that every single leader, from the FC's of this alliance, to the top of this alliance, thinks its aids. We know how much effort this will take to hold even one system, you don't.
  1806.  
  1807.  
  1808.  
  1809. I agree with you completly. I think the only people who like these changes are forum alts who don't really know what they are talking about and high-sec carebears. Maybe some retarded ex-test / test members too.
  1810.  
  1811. Even the normal casual f1 pusher understands that this is shit ...
  1812.  
  1813. I had a conversation with some faction warfare dudes yesterday and they almost gave me cancer ... ( and they really think you can earn a lot of isk by mining and ratting in 0.0 LOL )
  1814.  
  1815. + - 0
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  1817. mZYXS.gif
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  1822.  
  1823. Rise Altol
  1824.  
  1825. Advanced Member
  1826. Nulli Secunda
  1827. PipPipPip
  1828. 78 posts
  1829.  
  1830. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  1831. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1832.  
  1833. Posted Yesterday, 07:39 AM
  1834.  
  1835. Inira Serra, on 04 Mar 2015 - 07:16 AM, said:
  1836.  
  1837. My apologies then. If you don't mind me asking, what is your opinion of Phoebe Freeport Alliance and the other smaller alliances slowly taking sov in that area? I haven't followed them as closely as I'd like to however they seem to be making it work.
  1838.  
  1839.  
  1840.  
  1841. If someone would want stop them, they would do it. They basicly are allowed to live somewhere north because no one cares. It just got easier to headshot their staging though and evict them once and for all.
  1842.  
  1843. + - 0
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  1850.  
  1851. #62 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #62] RatKnight1
  1852.  
  1853. Advanced Member
  1854. Nulli Secunda
  1855. PipPipPip
  1856. 279 posts
  1857.  
  1858. LocationHeaven
  1859. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  1860. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1861.  
  1862. Posted Yesterday, 09:17 AM
  1863. Here is the big thing that CCP is missing and that Jean hit at:
  1864.  
  1865. 1) Currently the only reason to hold sov is for rental income. Either CCP needs to come up with a reason for us to hold the sov, or no one is going to do it. Even ratting in a carrier produces at best 120 mil an hour for a line member... This does nothing for the alliance wallet. Without a significant increase in income from holding sov for the line member... And we are talking enough to make SRP irrelevant, there is no good reason to hold sov.
  1866.  
  1867. 2) this mechanic is not going to really help small entities take sov, it is going to let better organized groups harass the living fuck out of each other for absolutely no reason then to fuck with each other. Small entities will still get crushed because we and every other coalition can still bring more numbers. If anything, this increases the rewards for bluing the fuck out of each other so you don't have to deal with the new sov system constantly.
  1868.  
  1869. 3) they have taken a complicated, condoluted system that no one likes, and are making a more complicated, more condoluted system that no one wants to have to fuck with. This system is assuming that we are going to bother with ratting in space that barely pays shit in order to make it harder to capture
  1870.  
  1871. 4) this system takes the advantage from the defender and gives it to the attacker. This is what happens when CCP decides to nerd something, they hit it with a bat, and push it too far. The defender should have a more significant advantage. I liked some of the ideas around a constellation or regional capital system that is protected from attack until a certain percentage of systems are reinforced or captured. This could be coupled with region or constellation wide indexes versus the current system based.
  1872.  
  1873.  
  1874. I don't think what we see today is what we will get in june. I think this is CCP wanting to show they are tough on this and then turning around and saying they negotiated, all the while getting the system they actually wanted... Assuming they are that smart.
  1875.  
  1876. If this system goes into place, I will be moving to NPC null so my shit can't be so easily taken, and you will prolly see alliances just saying fuck it to sov and holding moons, with nip agreements protecting structures while we blow each other up.
  1877.  
  1878.  
  1879. Or something else will happen.
  1880.  
  1881.  
  1882. What I do know is that after moving my shit to NPC null, I will be unsubbing my accounts and finding another game to play... Fractured space is pretty fun.
  1883.  
  1884. + - 0
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  1891.  
  1892. #63 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #63] blazigen
  1893.  
  1894. Advanced Member
  1895. Nulli Secunda
  1896. PipPipPip
  1897. 69 posts
  1898.  
  1899. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  1900. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1901.  
  1902. Posted Yesterday, 09:58 AM
  1903.  
  1904. Nituspar, on 04 Mar 2015 - 04:07 AM, said:
  1905.  
  1906. This model is retarded in so many ways i don't even know where to start.
  1907.  
  1908. My biggest problem with it is probably that the impossibility defend any decent amount space due to lack of timers, anything outside one constellation you stage from will probably be undefendable for extended periods of time unless you significantly outnumber your opponent. This combined with extremely low-risk offense basically creates a situation where the best defense is the old -A- cockroach-sov tactic when faced with anything that's a realistic threat to you.
  1909.  
  1910. You just let your opponent take your space while sitting in NPC null, never undock while they're deployed there and just wait for them to go somewhere else out of boredom, and then take your space back. This'll essentially only result in more blueballs and less fights against any competent opponent who can assess whether or not you can take on the attacker. This is also implying that you'd want sov anyway with some future update, beacuse as it stands the only thing worth holding onto are R64's. Fuck even trying to hold sov with a system anything similar to this one suggested, when it has no feasible rewards anymore.
  1911.  
  1912. Also if the defenders have no, or minimal advantages in holding their space, no alliance will want to risk ever fully deploying into sov null again, when it only takes 2 timers of blobbing/hellcamping to lock all your assets until the attackers deploy away. On top of that any serious defense attempt just involves the bigger blob of subcaps winning all timers, to succesfully defend space it's not even a case of N+1 anymore, it's now closer to a case of N*3...
  1913.  
  1914. A couple very quick fixes that'd make this horrible system at least a bit better:
  1915.  
  1916. #1 Make the sov module a lot more expensive, 1bil+ each module would be a reasonable price in my eyes when you take into account that it throws alliances out of their space. This makes defense fleets actually interesting, and gives the attacker risk which simply doesn't exist at all in the current implementation.
  1917.  
  1918. #2 Limit the ship classes that can field the sov module, preferrably to capitals only, but possibly battleships and higher, again to add any risk whatsoever to the attacker
  1919.  
  1920. #3 Increase the amount of timers significantly. Probably threefold from this original suggestion, considering the attackers only have to go through 30ish mins or reinforcing an undefended region anyway. This makes holding onto space a lot more reasonable than the current implementation of you losing a structure whenever you lose one timer.
  1921.  
  1922. The system essentially lacks any kind of risk for an attacker, which is a horrible flaw. There needs to be something at risk for both attacking and defending parties to make equal fights happen. (Theoretically you could say that the investment/risk needs to be greater than the risk of losing the value of the fleet you're bringing out to fight for an engagement to happen.)
  1923.  
  1924. The current risk of a sov attacker is losing the time investment they put into attacking sov if they don't show up for the timer, and for defenders losing their space, and the defensive advantage that comes with it. Despite the criticism, this risk on both sides generates a lot more meaningful content than a system with 0 risk to the attacker ever will, regardless of the amount of clueless new people who enter null sov as a result.
  1925.  
  1926.  
  1927. Nitu post this in the threadnaught PLEASE
  1928.  
  1929. + - 0
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  1936.  
  1937. #64 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #64] blazigen
  1938.  
  1939. Advanced Member
  1940. Nulli Secunda
  1941. PipPipPip
  1942. 69 posts
  1943.  
  1944. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  1945. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1946.  
  1947. Posted Yesterday, 10:04 AM
  1948.  
  1949. Jean Leaner, on 04 Mar 2015 - 06:19 AM, said:
  1950.  
  1951. Also, I love the people who won't actually do any of the work leading any of this going "Its great!", thats nice, you don't have to organize the defense of it. Until you do your opinion on whats great about a fucking organizational nightmare is worth nothing.
  1952.  
  1953. what he said seriously. He is right nothing about this system is good
  1954.  
  1955. + - 0
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  1962.  
  1963. #65 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #65] Valotaan
  1964.  
  1965. Member
  1966. Nulli Secunda
  1967. PipPip
  1968. 26 posts
  1969.  
  1970. Corporation Name:Black Templar Germany
  1971. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  1972.  
  1973. Posted Yesterday, 11:03 AM
  1974.  
  1975. I like the upcoming sov changes. It´s a matter of opinion how this will change nullsec.
  1976.  
  1977. I think it will get much more action and people into nullsec.
  1978.  
  1979.  
  1980.  
  1981.  
  1982.  
  1983. And i don´t agree with a lot of arguments made so far:
  1984.  
  1985. 200 intys take our systems.
  1986. If we can´t defend our space against 200 inties (that are spread around our systems) in our prime time we should go to high sec and do lvl 2 missions.
  1987.  
  1988.  
  1989. This mechanic is not going to really help small entities take sov.
  1990. I think it will help them a lot. Alliances with much space (like us) can´t defend all systems spread around 10 regions and have to give up some unused space. Small alliances can take it. Instead of fighting them we can make a defence agreement with them and let them help defend our space.
  1991.  
  1992.  
  1993. Currently the only reason to hold sov is for rental income.
  1994. If there are a lot of small alliances around us and we have a defence agreement with them we (as the stronger alliance) can take money for that agreement. It will maybe generate less money but will also help us to defend our space.
  1995.  
  1996.  
  1997. They have taken a complicated, condoluted system that no one likes, and are making a more complicated, more condoluted system that no one wants to have to fuck with.
  1998. I want it :D
  1999.  
  2000.  
  2001.  
  2002.  
  2003.  
  2004. Someone decides to fuck with you thats bigger than you are, drops their entire fleet on yoru station, camps for two days, and evicts you entirely
  2005.  
  2006. 1. We have more then one station and we don´t need to have everybody in one station.
  2007.  
  2008. 2. If their entire fleet is on our station nothing happens because they can´t take sov from there. They need to move people in different systems.
  2009.  
  2010. + - 0
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  2012. Quote
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  2015.  
  2016. #66 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #66] Rise Altol
  2017.  
  2018. Advanced Member
  2019. Nulli Secunda
  2020. PipPipPip
  2021. 78 posts
  2022.  
  2023. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  2024. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2025.  
  2026. Posted Yesterday, 11:43 AM
  2027.  
  2028. 1 ) Have fun catching a endless stream of inties all across the fucking region. They are really cheap and they are uncatchable ...
  2029.  
  2030.  
  2031.  
  2032. 2 ) Pretty much renting but do renters fight ? No, and even if I guess it will be a bitch to organize for hc. And to be honest a 10 man moa fleet against a 50 man inty fleet will get rekt. It's all about the n+1 .
  2033.  
  2034. Just one problem with small entities taking sov. There are more but I am too lazy to write them down.
  2035.  
  2036.  
  2037.  
  2038. 4 )
  2039.  
  2040. 54c.jpg
  2041.  
  2042.  
  2043.  
  2044. 5 ) Seeding 1 market is already hard enough, how do you want to seed more than 1 station ? If this station gets headshoted you are fucked. Not worth the risk, 0.0 npc station here we come.
  2045.  
  2046. Also you really need to have all people in one station because you have to flashform in your primetime. When someone comes into the system to take it you have no time to prepare a huge fleet whatsoever.
  2047.  
  2048. + - 0
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  2055.  
  2056. #67 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #67] Valotaan
  2057.  
  2058. Member
  2059. Nulli Secunda
  2060. PipPip
  2061. 26 posts
  2062.  
  2063. Corporation Name:Black Templar Germany
  2064. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2065.  
  2066. Posted Yesterday, 11:49 AM
  2067.  
  2068. They are really cheap and they are uncatchable?
  2069.  
  2070.  
  2071.  
  2072. But not if they want to take sov. Then they have to sit still for 5 minutes
  2073.  
  2074. Or 2 minutes, but then the module cost around 80 mil which will lift the price for 200 inties to 20 bil isk and more.
  2075.  
  2076.  
  2077.  
  2078. And we stillt don´t know how easy the new modules fit into small ships.
  2079.  
  2080. + - 0
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  2085.  
  2086. #68 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #68] Rise Altol
  2087.  
  2088. Advanced Member
  2089. Nulli Secunda
  2090. PipPipPip
  2091. 78 posts
  2092.  
  2093. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  2094. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2095.  
  2096. Posted Yesterday, 11:57 AM
  2097.  
  2098. They can move ...
  2099.  
  2100. + - 0
  2101.  
  2102. mZYXS.gif
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  2107.  
  2108. #69 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #69] Toffi64
  2109.  
  2110. Advanced Member
  2111. Nulli Secunda
  2112. PipPipPip
  2113. 55 posts
  2114.  
  2115. LocationGermany
  2116. Corporation Name:Black Templar Germany
  2117. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2118.  
  2119. Posted Yesterday, 12:11 PM
  2120. I was hoping someone would post something positive, a few did 😉 As long as we are active, there is hope! If it is really that easy to attack space, we can just take back what we've lost.
  2121.  
  2122. + - 0
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  2125. MultiQuote
  2126. Report
  2127.  
  2128. #70 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #70] Lurifax
  2129.  
  2130. Advanced Member
  2131. Nulli Secunda
  2132. PipPipPip
  2133. 90 posts
  2134.  
  2135. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  2136. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2137.  
  2138. Posted Yesterday, 12:53 PM
  2139.  
  2140. Toffi64, on 04 Mar 2015 - 1:11 PM, said:
  2141.  
  2142. I was hoping someone would post something positive, a few did As long as we are active, there is hope! If it is really that easy to attack space, we can just take back what we've lost.
  2143.  
  2144. No, reason to hold it any more.
  2145.  
  2146. + - 0
  2147.  
  2148. Nulli 2014; Basicly, we are a lowsec Alliance with 0.0 renter space doing RvB war.
  2149.  
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  2151. MultiQuote
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  2153.  
  2154. #71 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #71] mufe mufetski
  2155.  
  2156. Member
  2157. Nulli Secunda
  2158. PipPip
  2159. 21 posts
  2160.  
  2161. LocationShithole i call home
  2162. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  2163. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2164.  
  2165. Posted Yesterday, 01:01 PM
  2166.  
  2167. They bring 50 inities, we can bring 150 inties and kill (or whatever) command node so much faster.
  2168.  
  2169. + - 0
  2170.  
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  2174.  
  2175. #72 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #72] RatKnight1
  2176.  
  2177. Advanced Member
  2178. Nulli Secunda
  2179. PipPipPip
  2180. 279 posts
  2181.  
  2182. LocationHeaven
  2183. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  2184. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2185.  
  2186. Posted Yesterday, 01:17 PM
  2187.  
  2188. Valotaan, on 04 Mar 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:
  2189.  
  2190. I like the upcoming sov changes. It´s a matter of opinion how this will change nullsec.
  2191. I think it will get much more action and people into nullsec.
  2192.  
  2193.  
  2194. And i don´t agree with a lot of arguments made so far:200 intys take our systems.
  2195. If we can´t defend our space against 200 inties (that are spread around our systems) in our prime time we should go to high sec and do lvl 2 missions.
  2196. This mechanic is not going to really help small entities take sov.I think it will help them a lot. Alliances with much space (like us) can´t defend all systems spread around 10 regions and have to give up some unused space. Small alliances can take it. Instead of fighting them we can make a defence agreement with them and let them help defend our space.
  2197.  
  2198. Currently the only reason to hold sov is for rental income.If there are a lot of small alliances around us and we have a defence agreement with them we (as the stronger alliance) can take money for that agreement. It will maybe generate less money but will also help us to defend our space.
  2199.  
  2200. They have taken a complicated, condoluted system that no one likes, and are making a more complicated, more condoluted system that no one wants to have to fuck with.I want it :D
  2201.  
  2202.  
  2203. Someone decides to fuck with you thats bigger than you are, drops their entire fleet on yoru station, camps for two days, and evicts you entirely
  2204. 1. We have more then one station and we don´t need to have everybody in one station.
  2205. 2. If their entire fleet is on our station nothing happens because they can´t take sov from there. They need to move people in different systems.
  2206.  
  2207. I am not known for name calling.
  2208.  
  2209. You are an idiot.
  2210.  
  2211. Also you have to do literally nothing involving sov, so, yeah.
  2212.  
  2213. + - 0
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  2220.  
  2221. #73 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #73] Valotaan
  2222.  
  2223. Member
  2224. Nulli Secunda
  2225. PipPip
  2226. 26 posts
  2227.  
  2228. Corporation Name:Black Templar Germany
  2229. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2230.  
  2231. Posted Yesterday, 01:40 PM
  2232.  
  2233. RatKnight1, on 04 Mar 2015 - 2:17 PM, said:
  2234.  
  2235. I am not known for name calling.
  2236.  
  2237. You are an idiot.
  2238.  
  2239. Also you have to do literally nothing involving sov, so, yeah.
  2240.  
  2241.  
  2242.  
  2243. You call me an idiot because i have a different opinion then you?
  2244.  
  2245.  
  2246.  
  2247. How old are you?
  2248.  
  2249. + - -1
  2250.  
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  2254.  
  2255. #74 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #74] RatKnight1
  2256.  
  2257. Advanced Member
  2258. Nulli Secunda
  2259. PipPipPip
  2260. 279 posts
  2261.  
  2262. LocationHeaven
  2263. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  2264. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2265.  
  2266. Posted Yesterday, 01:48 PM
  2267. 12, but that isn't relevant nor does it change the fact that you are an idiot,
  2268. The definition of which is a stupid person.
  2269.  
  2270. Why?
  2271.  
  2272. Do you do anything remotely related to anything involving alliance? Well, since you have 24 posts and I have never seen you before, I am going to guess no.
  2273.  
  2274. You have no idea how the current system works, and you are using that lack of knowledge, aka stupidity, to make a judgement about a more condoluted system that I promise you do not understand the consequences of.
  2275.  
  2276. I will have a better answer in 20 minuts when I get home to waste 10 minutes of my time tearing apart each of your arguments...
  2277.  
  2278.  
  2279. See you in 30 minutes.
  2280.  
  2281. + - 2
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  2288.  
  2289. #75 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #75] Lurifax
  2290.  
  2291. Advanced Member
  2292. Nulli Secunda
  2293. PipPipPip
  2294. 90 posts
  2295.  
  2296. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  2297. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2298.  
  2299. Posted Yesterday, 02:11 PM
  2300.  
  2301. I will alarm clock for Rats rant.
  2302.  
  2303. + - 1
  2304.  
  2305. Nulli 2014; Basicly, we are a lowsec Alliance with 0.0 renter space doing RvB war.
  2306.  
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  2310.  
  2311. #76 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #76] Valotaan
  2312.  
  2313. Member
  2314. Nulli Secunda
  2315. PipPip
  2316. 26 posts
  2317.  
  2318. Corporation Name:Black Templar Germany
  2319. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2320.  
  2321. Posted Yesterday, 02:13 PM
  2322.  
  2323. And i thought the fact that people blocking you in teamspeak because you are talking shit and you prove that you don´t have a clue about eve in eve fleet makes you the idiot.
  2324.  
  2325.  
  2326.  
  2327. To bad we don´t have aspherical instead of you. He was also disturbing on ts but at least he knew a lot about eve and game mechanics.
  2328.  
  2329. + - 2
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  2334.  
  2335. #77 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #77] Zoidus
  2336.  
  2337. Newbie
  2338. Nulli Secunda
  2339. Pip
  2340. 3 posts
  2341.  
  2342. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  2343. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2344.  
  2345. Posted Yesterday, 02:27 PM
  2346.  
  2347. Traffic must be bad?
  2348.  
  2349. + - 0
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  2354.  
  2355. #78 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #78] Alex DeWalker
  2356.  
  2357. Advanced Member
  2358. Nulli Secunda
  2359. PipPipPip
  2360. 92 posts
  2361.  
  2362. LocationNot that far east
  2363. Corporation Name:Shiva
  2364. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2365.  
  2366. Posted Yesterday, 02:29 PM
  2367.  
  2368. mufe mufetski, on 04 Mar 2015 - 2:01 PM, said:
  2369.  
  2370. They bring 50 inities, we can bring 150 inties and kill (or whatever) command node so much faster.
  2371.  
  2372. I think the point is, it's gonna be relatively easy to piss into sov holders cheerios, without actual intent to take sov at all.
  2373.  
  2374. At the moment it takes $effort, squads of endless inties are not $effort
  2375.  
  2376. Also not sure about you, but I went with sov home to have little more than FW Inties Online, daily.
  2377.  
  2378. + - 1
  2379.  
  2380. Quote
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  2382. Report
  2383.  
  2384. #79 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #79] RatKnight1
  2385.  
  2386. Advanced Member
  2387. Nulli Secunda
  2388. PipPipPip
  2389. 279 posts
  2390.  
  2391. LocationHeaven
  2392. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  2393. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2394.  
  2395. Posted Yesterday, 02:32 PM
  2396.  
  2397. Okay, finally got in front of my computer.
  2398.  
  2399. Guess I should start out with:
  2400.  
  2401.  
  2402.  
  2403.  
  2404.  
  2405. Valotaan, on 04 Mar 2015 - 3:13 PM, said:
  2406.  
  2407. And i thought the fact that people blocking you in teamspeak because you are talking shit and you prove that you don´t have a clue about eve in eve fleet makes you the idiot.
  2408.  
  2409.  
  2410.  
  2411. To bad we don´t have aspherical instead of you. He was also disturbing on ts but at least he knew a lot about eve and game mechanics.
  2412.  
  2413.  
  2414.  
  2415. No, people block me on Teamspeak because I talk entirely too much, and I am a total asshole, if you are going to insult me at least get your shit right. I also don't have a clue about most fleet mechanics, but you can talk to drunk me about that, since he tends to be a know it all.(typically drunk me is the one on euro fleets, since that is my "night" since I work midnights). I also work with crazy people (literally, I work in a nut house), so you are going to have to do better then "someone doesn't like you!" to hurt my feelings... maybe if you tell me you don't love me... that might do it!
  2416.  
  2417.  
  2418.  
  2419. And now, as promised, lets go through your thingy mah bobber:
  2420.  
  2421.  
  2422.  
  2423. Quote
  2424.  
  2425.  
  2426.  
  2427.  
  2428. 200 intys take our systems.
  2429. If we can´t defend our space against 200 inties (that are spread around our systems) in our prime time we should go to high sec and do lvl 2 missions.
  2430.  
  2431.  
  2432.  
  2433. Even though this was answered pretty well, each of those inties can tackle a piece of sov infrastructure. Also, dealing with the first 200 inties isn't the issue, dealing with them for the 10th, 11th, 12th time in a row, when people are sick of chasing their own shadows and stop forming in fleets is when it becomes a problem. I guess this must be the new definition of "fun".
  2434.  
  2435.  
  2436.  
  2437. Quote
  2438.  
  2439.  
  2440.  
  2441.  
  2442. This mechanic is not going to really help small entities take sov.
  2443. I think it will help them a lot. Alliances with much space (like us) can´t defend all systems spread around 10 regions and have to give up some unused space. Small alliances can take it. Instead of fighting them we can make a defence agreement with them and let them help defend our space.
  2444.  
  2445.  
  2446.  
  2447. 1) you misspelled defense, but since you aren't a native English speaker, I am going to forgive that... regardless. What you said here is basically the point... This will lead to an increase in stagnation d/t us bluing more people... hence not accomplishing the goals stated, hence this is a bad fucking system.
  2448.  
  2449.  
  2450.  
  2451. Quote
  2452.  
  2453.  
  2454.  
  2455.  
  2456. Currently the only reason to hold sov is for rental income.
  2457. If there are a lot of small alliances around us and we have a defence agreement with them we (as the stronger alliance) can take money for that agreement. It will maybe generate less money but will also help us to defend our space.
  2458.  
  2459.  
  2460.  
  2461.  
  2462. You essentially just described what rental is.
  2463.  
  2464.  
  2465.  
  2466. Quote
  2467.  
  2468.  
  2469.  
  2470.  
  2471. They have taken a complicated, condoluted system that no one likes, and are making a more complicated, more condoluted system that no one wants to have to fuck with.
  2472. I want it :D
  2473.  
  2474.  
  2475.  
  2476. No one who understands sov mechanics wants it... there, I fixed it.
  2477.  
  2478.  
  2479.  
  2480. Quote
  2481.  
  2482.  
  2483.  
  2484. Someone decides to fuck with you thats bigger than you are, drops their entire fleet on yoru station, camps for two days, and evicts you entirely
  2485.  
  2486. 1. We have more then one station and we don´t need to have everybody in one station.
  2487.  
  2488. 2. If their entire fleet is on our station nothing happens because they can´t take sov from there. They need to move people in different systems.
  2489.  
  2490.  
  2491.  
  2492. Um.... Because you can't camp 2 stations at once?... and no one has ever teamed up on us before to bring 1000 + dudes to bear against us?... yeah, I am sure that could never happen (0-W).
  2493.  
  2494.  
  2495.  
  2496. Sorry for the delay, bad rain here washed out a road.
  2497.  
  2498. + - 0
  2499.  
  2500. 7KXcuf4.jpg
  2501.  
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  2505.  
  2506. #80 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #80] Mannih
  2507.  
  2508. Newbie
  2509. Nulli Secunda
  2510. Pip
  2511. 5 posts
  2512.  
  2513. Corporation Name:Catastrophic Operations
  2514. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2515.  
  2516. Posted Yesterday, 02:38 PM
  2517.  
  2518. I clearly must have missed that line of the devblog, where they confirmed these modules fit on frigates.
  2519.  
  2520. + - 1
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  2524. Report
  2525.  
  2526. Me ofcourse
  2527.  
  2528. Advanced Member
  2529. Nulli Secunda
  2530. PipPipPip
  2531. 270 posts
  2532.  
  2533. LocationHell, Commiepore
  2534. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  2535. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2536.  
  2537. Posted Yesterday, 02:39 PM
  2538.  
  2539. Mannih, on 04 Mar 2015 - 3:38 PM, said:
  2540.  
  2541. I clearly must have missed that line of the devblog, where they confirmed these modules fit on frigates.
  2542.  
  2543. Other key attributes of the Entosis Link module are:
  2544.  
  2545. Requires the skill Infomorph Psychology (rank 1 skill).
  2546. Low fitting requirements, uses high power slot.
  2547. Only one may be fitted per ship.
  2548. Cannot be used by trial accounts.
  2549. Maximum range of 25km for Tech One, 250km for Tech Two.
  2550. Requires a target lock on the structure.
  2551. Capital Ships would have restrictions for using these modules, most likely in the form of a role bonus that increases the cycle time by 400% (this means a 10 minute cycle time for a T2 Entosis Link on a capital ship).
  2552. A clear visual effect shows which ships are applying Entosis Links.
  2553. Build costs of approximately 20 million isk for Tech One, and approximately 80 million isk for Tech Two.
  2554.  
  2555.  
  2556. + - 1
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  2558. 1363764906038.gif
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  2563.  
  2564. #82 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #82] Mannih
  2565.  
  2566. Newbie
  2567. Nulli Secunda
  2568. Pip
  2569. 5 posts
  2570.  
  2571. Corporation Name:Catastrophic Operations
  2572. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2573.  
  2574. Posted Yesterday, 02:43 PM
  2575.  
  2576. But until they explicitly confirm they fit on frigates, I refuse to believe that.
  2577.  
  2578. + - 1
  2579.  
  2580. Quote
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  2583.  
  2584. #83 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #83] RatKnight1
  2585.  
  2586. Advanced Member
  2587. Nulli Secunda
  2588. PipPipPip
  2589. 279 posts
  2590.  
  2591. LocationHeaven
  2592. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  2593. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2594.  
  2595. Posted Yesterday, 02:45 PM
  2596.  
  2597. Mannih, on 04 Mar 2015 - 3:43 PM, said:
  2598.  
  2599. But until they explicitly confirm they fit on frigates, I refuse to believe that.
  2600.  
  2601.  
  2602.  
  2603. Lol, my friend, refusing to believe it doesn't make it any less likely.
  2604.  
  2605.  
  2606.  
  2607. Sure, they might not be able to be fit on frigates, but considering the entire point of this is to allow anyone more or less to get into nullsec, I will be surprised if they can't.
  2608.  
  2609.  
  2610.  
  2611. If they can't, MWD Svipul will be the new meta. (oh wait...)
  2612.  
  2613. + - 1
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  2620.  
  2621. #84 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #84] Eligos Quemada
  2622.  
  2623. Advanced Member
  2624. Nulli Secunda
  2625. PipPipPip
  2626. 121 posts
  2627.  
  2628. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  2629. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2630.  
  2631. Posted Yesterday, 02:46 PM
  2632.  
  2633. Mannih, on 04 Mar 2015 - 3:38 PM, said:
  2634.  
  2635. I clearly must have missed that line of the devblog, where they confirmed these modules fit on frigates.
  2636.  
  2637.  
  2638.  
  2639. yK02nzE.jpg
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  2641. + - 2
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  2648.  
  2649. #85 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #85] Rise Altol
  2650.  
  2651. Advanced Member
  2652. Nulli Secunda
  2653. PipPipPip
  2654. 78 posts
  2655.  
  2656. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  2657. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2658.  
  2659. Posted Yesterday, 02:48 PM
  2660.  
  2661. Mannih, on 04 Mar 2015 - 3:38 PM, said:
  2662.  
  2663. I clearly must have missed that line of the devblog, where they confirmed these modules fit on frigates.
  2664.  
  2665.  
  2666.  
  2667. Because CCP would NEVER do something really retarded because they don't have a clue what they are doing
  2668.  
  2669. + - 1
  2670.  
  2671. mZYXS.gif
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  2675. Report
  2676.  
  2677. #86 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #86] Me ofcourse
  2678.  
  2679. Advanced Member
  2680. Nulli Secunda
  2681. PipPipPip
  2682. 270 posts
  2683.  
  2684. LocationHell, Commiepore
  2685. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  2686. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2687.  
  2688. Posted Yesterday, 02:50 PM
  2689.  
  2690. Mannih, on 04 Mar 2015 - 3:43 PM, said:
  2691.  
  2692. But until they explicitly confirm they fit on frigates, I refuse to believe that.
  2693.  
  2694. your obviously new to the game.....
  2695.  
  2696. + - 0
  2697.  
  2698. 1363764906038.gif
  2699.  
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  2703.  
  2704. #87 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #87] Kinizsi
  2705.  
  2706. Member
  2707. Nulli Secunda
  2708. PipPip
  2709. 19 posts
  2710.  
  2711. Corporation Name:FREE GATES
  2712. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2713.  
  2714. Posted Yesterday, 03:09 PM
  2715.  
  2716. Alisyana, on 03 Mar 2015 - 9:47 PM, said:
  2717.  
  2718. I've been thinking this through all day. So far, here's what I've come up with that is going to take some thought as to what to do...
  2719.  
  2720.  
  2721.  
  2722. 1. The Vulnerability Period of each structure means there's a 4 hour window, each day, in which it can be attacked. If an alliance sets it's window to the same timer period, which would be a reasonable assumption, they need to be available for defending during that time each day, and the rest of the time zones there's no action. Other than roams, or RFing others.
  2723.  
  2724.  
  2725.  
  2726. For example, let's say S2N times our stuff for 20:00-00:00, and Rusrus times theirs for 10:00-14:00, we can only be on the offensive during the 10:00-14:00 slot, and we're on the defensive during the 20:00 timer slot. Eve is then broken down to sov activity during specified time periods. No longer can we run our operations, sans POS shoots, when we decide to form, we're relegated to running ops specifically during those times that are open. This is more like "pre-arranged" fight scheduling.
  2727.  
  2728.  
  2729.  
  2730. 2. The simple means of using a module to capture sov is interesting, but because one single person could do it every day, it means holding things like ihubs and stations becomes significantly more difficult the more you have. Simply put, you could just put together 20 5-man fleets in intys, and go around disrupting everyone's sov during that window period. Unopposed stations, ihubs and TCUs can be RF'd into 1st timer in as little as 10 mins. 20 small inty fleets running around could effectively RF an entire region in an hour. Let alone, you can expect some rogue element to attempt to RF a majority of your stuff every day, meaning adopting a standing fleet status for each 4 hour vulnerability timer each day. Good luck getting much else done during that time.
  2731.  
  2732.  
  2733.  
  2734. 3. Allied help is critical in keeping your sov infrastructure operational, but the mechanism of how it can be used places a high liability on the defense. Under new changes, defending is punished by the fact the all non-owner-entities of said structure count as attackers. The only value of a defender is to shoot the attackers, which brings back the N+1 mechanic to again converge on a station RF timer.
  2735.  
  2736.  
  2737.  
  2738. 4. Freeport mode, is plain stupid. I'm sorry, but it is. What this means is not only does the attacking force get a place to repair and store ships and ammo, the N+1 mechanic allows them to perma-camp and bubble the station during this period, and they do not need to withdraw to resupply. You now have to drive them off, by undocking into a firestorm of TiDi and bombs, or call for help to push them off.
  2739.  
  2740.  
  2741.  
  2742. All this brings up the question - why hold sov? I tried to think of a few reasons:
  2743.  
  2744. 1. POS fuel bonus for the R64's. Valuable, but puts a beacon on the map where your towers are so any 5 man crew can come fuck with your fuel bill.
  2745.  
  2746. 2. I can't think of another.
  2747.  
  2748.  
  2749.  
  2750. Now for Ihubs. They provide defensive bonuses and system bonuses. So, ihubs in JB systems, and ratting/mining systems are good, but then again it wouldn't really matter who owns the ihub, since it's a system bonus - not a bonus to your alliance, there's no reason you need to hold it when someone else can - and pays the bill. Currently ihubs are tied to the TCU as a multi-level sov function, so you must take them out to gain sov. With the new mechanic, the ihubs aren't all that useful anymore as strategic objects.
  2751.  
  2752.  
  2753.  
  2754. Stations. Who wants to live in a station after this and have to defend it every day, risking the billions in assets you have stockpiled, when you can easily go to an NPC station that can't be captured, doesn't need to be defended, and you risk nothing.
  2755.  
  2756.  
  2757.  
  2758. So IMHO, the clear future option for sov is a mobile group that utilizes a couple NPC locations, jump clones, and is near their income base of R64's and ratting/mining systems, because rental income just died and isn't really sustainable after this. it would be far more fun to run around in those 5-man fleets I described earlier RFing someone else's sov, and ransoming them to leave.
  2759.  
  2760. Imagine building supers under theese circumstances........ how can you get your 21 days uninterrupted for your SC or more than double that for your Titan in build? No more supers will be finished ever.
  2761.  
  2762. + - 0
  2763.  
  2764. Quote
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  2767.  
  2768. #88 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #88] Eligos Quemada
  2769.  
  2770. Advanced Member
  2771. Nulli Secunda
  2772. PipPipPip
  2773. 121 posts
  2774.  
  2775. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  2776. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2777.  
  2778. Posted Yesterday, 03:11 PM
  2779.  
  2780. Yeah but then again we won't really need them anymore.
  2781.  
  2782. + - 0
  2783.  
  2784. K1Y2RZT.png
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  2789.  
  2790. #89 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #89] Me ofcourse
  2791.  
  2792. Advanced Member
  2793. Nulli Secunda
  2794. PipPipPip
  2795. 270 posts
  2796.  
  2797. LocationHell, Commiepore
  2798. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  2799. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2800.  
  2801. Posted Yesterday, 03:12 PM
  2802.  
  2803. Kinizsi, on 04 Mar 2015 - 4:09 PM, said:
  2804.  
  2805. Imagine building supers under theese circumstances........ how can you get your 21 days uninterrupted for your SC or more than double that for your Titan in build? No more supers will be finished ever.
  2806.  
  2807. well no super/titan will be usefull either way
  2808.  
  2809. + - 0
  2810.  
  2811. 1363764906038.gif
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  2816.  
  2817. #90 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #90] Retmas
  2818.  
  2819. Advanced Member
  2820. Nulli Secunda
  2821. PipPipPip
  2822. 292 posts
  2823.  
  2824. LocationSterling VA
  2825. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  2826. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2827.  
  2828. Posted Yesterday, 03:17 PM
  2829.  
  2830. Jean Leaner, on 04 Mar 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:
  2831.  
  2832. Theres a vast difference between making it hard to hold large chunks of space, and making it not worth the effort to hold ANY space. The way it is right now, sitting in NPC 0.0, dropping all sov, and holding moons only and fucking with the retards who think sov is a good idea is the way to go. Unless CCP pulls a rabbit out of their hat and makes a constellation generate a hundred billion isk in income for an alliance on its own, sov isn't worth the effort.
  2833.  
  2834.  
  2835.  
  2836. so we're doing guristas missions again???
  2837.  
  2838.  
  2839.  
  2840. harem-saito.jpg
  2841.  
  2842. + - 0
  2843.  
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  2845.  
  2846.  
  2847.  
  2848. WInning EVE, one bureaucratic dithering at a time!
  2849.  
  2850. Quote
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  2852. Report
  2853.  
  2854. #91 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #91] RatKnight1
  2855.  
  2856. Advanced Member
  2857. Nulli Secunda
  2858. PipPipPip
  2859. 279 posts
  2860.  
  2861. LocationHeaven
  2862. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  2863. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2864.  
  2865. Posted Yesterday, 03:20 PM
  2866.  
  2867. Also, I am sorry for calling you an idiot. When I am getting off of work I tend to be in a bit of a bitchy mood, and I sometimes do things which I regret.
  2868.  
  2869.  
  2870.  
  2871. I should not have called you an idiot.
  2872.  
  2873.  
  2874.  
  2875. I am sorry.
  2876.  
  2877.  
  2878.  
  2879. I do however stand by everything else that I said.
  2880.  
  2881. + - 3
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  2888.  
  2889. #92 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #92] El Deuce
  2890.  
  2891. Member
  2892. Nulli Secunda
  2893. PipPip
  2894. 23 posts
  2895.  
  2896. Corporation Name:Pwn 'N Play
  2897. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2898.  
  2899. Posted Yesterday, 03:24 PM
  2900.  
  2901. Jean Leaner, on 04 Mar 2015 - 06:19 AM, said:
  2902.  
  2903. Also, I love the people who won't actually do any of the work leading any of this going "Its great!", thats nice, you don't have to organize the defense of it. Until you do your opinion on whats great about a fucking organizational nightmare is worth nothing.
  2904.  
  2905. I think CCP is trying to make it hard to organize gigantic amounts if people. If course n+1 tactics will still have a very powerful place in sov war, but with this system organization could end up being more important than just having more dudes because there will be more opportunities to split up the larger entities fleet.
  2906.  
  2907. The last thing I'm going to worry about is fleets of inties (in regards to everyone's chicken little comments) For shit's sake the idea that you can't stop 20 inties that have to sit in a place for 5 minutes you can easily warp to. Is flat out silly. Especially when the idea is to make you live in the systems you're in.
  2908. 1. You'll be in that system
  2909. 2. If you activate your own module you halt their progress. You wont even have to kill them. So who gives a fuck if someone is going so fast you can't kill him? You activate your module and start scanning out His links and kill that.
  2910. 3. Settle the hell down everyone. This is the first iteration, it'll change
  2911.  
  2912. Sorry for shit spelling. I'm on my phone.
  2913.  
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  2919.  
  2920. #93 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #93] Sludgeface
  2921.  
  2922. Advanced Member
  2923. Nulli Secunda
  2924. PipPipPip
  2925. 96 posts
  2926.  
  2927. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  2928. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2929.  
  2930. Posted Yesterday, 03:25 PM
  2931.  
  2932. again, does anyone want my stuff?
  2933.  
  2934. + - 0
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  2936. cYDWisa.jpg
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  2941.  
  2942. #94 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #94] Gilbaron
  2943.  
  2944. Advanced Member
  2945. Nulli Secunda
  2946. PipPipPip
  2947. 182 posts
  2948.  
  2949. Corporation Name:Free-Space-Ranger
  2950. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2951.  
  2952. Posted Yesterday, 03:28 PM
  2953.  
  2954. i'll happily take all the stuff that others don't want anymore
  2955.  
  2956. + - 1
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  2963.  
  2964. #95 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #95] Kinizsi
  2965.  
  2966. Member
  2967. Nulli Secunda
  2968. PipPip
  2969. 19 posts
  2970.  
  2971. Corporation Name:FREE GATES
  2972. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2973.  
  2974. Posted Yesterday, 03:30 PM
  2975.  
  2976. Me ofcourse, on 04 Mar 2015 - 4:12 PM, said:
  2977.  
  2978. well no super/titan will be usefull either way
  2979.  
  2980. I think we'll need them more than ever. Those can live long enough to finish their siege/capture cycle. Small ships would drop like flies in seconds. Supers can hold for long-long minutes and if they drop low on armor, than they cancel their cycle and they get remote reppped up.... but you gained long minutes for your other supers to finish their cycle. If you start cycle with 3 Avatars and 3 Aeons...... the enemy have to chew through like 300-400M EHP to cancel your cycle?
  2981.  
  2982. + - 0
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  2984. Quote
  2985. MultiQuote
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  2987.  
  2988. #96 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #96] Rise Altol
  2989.  
  2990. Advanced Member
  2991. Nulli Secunda
  2992. PipPipPip
  2993. 78 posts
  2994.  
  2995. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  2996. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  2997.  
  2998. Posted Yesterday, 03:34 PM
  2999.  
  3000. 400 % + to the Linkcycle. Will make ops go even longer. Somebody do the math. Also the super will be a sitting duck that can not receive any remote reps etc...
  3001.  
  3002. + - 2
  3003.  
  3004. mZYXS.gif
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  3009.  
  3010. #97 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #97] Jean Leaner
  3011.  
  3012. Is better than you
  3013. Administrators
  3014. 440 posts
  3015.  
  3016. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  3017. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3018.  
  3019. Posted Yesterday, 03:42 PM
  3020.  
  3021. El Deuce, on 04 Mar 2015 - 4:24 PM, said:
  3022.  
  3023. I think CCP is trying to make it hard to organize gigantic amounts if people. If course n+1 tactics will still have a very powerful place in sov war, but with this system organization could end up being more important than just having more dudes because there will be more opportunities to split up the larger entities fleet.
  3024.  
  3025. The last thing I'm going to worry about is fleets of inties (in regards to everyone's chicken little comments) For shit's sake the idea that you can't stop 20 inties that have to sit in a place for 5 minutes you can easily warp to. Is flat out silly. Especially when the idea is to make you live in the systems you're in.
  3026. 1. You'll be in that system
  3027. 2. If you activate your own module you halt their progress. You wont even have to kill them. So who gives a fuck if someone is going so fast you can't kill him? You activate your module and start scanning out His links and kill that.
  3028. 3. Settle the hell down everyone. This is the first iteration, it'll change
  3029.  
  3030. Sorry for shit spelling. I'm on my phone.
  3031.  
  3032.  
  3033.  
  3034.  
  3035.  
  3036. Hi, the interceptors don't have to sit in place. Try reading the devblog. You can fit a 8km m/s interceptor that has 150km lockrange. Good luck killing that as it orbits faster than anything can chase it down and if you can contest it burns out of its lock range and ENDS ITS CYCLE MANUALLY AND LEAVES. You think 20 is a problem. How about 200, in every system you own across a region at the same time, reinforcing at the rate of one strcuture every TWO MINUTES, not five, TWO.
  3037.  
  3038.  
  3039.  
  3040. What in the fuck is fun about that for you? Its fun for the guy fucking with you because he's making you want to commit suicide, its completely fucking unfun for you. You can continue to have some misguided belief that you know better than the people who have spent years organizing alliances, or you can take our word that on any level of ownership this will be a god damn nightmare to deal with. That includes owning literally one system. The effort is in no way worth the fucking risk or stress.
  3041.  
  3042. + - 2
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  3049.  
  3050. #98 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #98] Jean Leaner
  3051.  
  3052. Is better than you
  3053. Administrators
  3054. 440 posts
  3055.  
  3056. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  3057. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3058.  
  3059. Posted Yesterday, 03:46 PM
  3060.  
  3061. Kinizsi, on 04 Mar 2015 - 4:30 PM, said:
  3062.  
  3063. I think we'll need them more than ever. Those can live long enough to finish their siege/capture cycle. Small ships would drop like flies in seconds. Supers can hold for long-long minutes and if they drop low on armor, than they cancel their cycle and they get remote reppped up.... but you gained long minutes for your other supers to finish their cycle. If you start cycle with 3 Avatars and 3 Aeons...... the enemy have to chew through like 300-400M EHP to cancel your cycle?
  3064.  
  3065.  
  3066.  
  3067. Here retard, lets do some math for you.
  3068.  
  3069.  
  3070.  
  3071. A fully bonused aeon in full tank has ~54m hp.
  3072.  
  3073.  
  3074.  
  3075. Your cycle time in a super will be 10 minutes
  3076.  
  3077.  
  3078.  
  3079. You cannot be repped.
  3080.  
  3081.  
  3082.  
  3083.  
  3084.  
  3085. 9 Dreads or 140 ishtars will kill your super before your cycle ends.
  3086.  
  3087.  
  3088.  
  3089.  
  3090.  
  3091. Welcome to how to commit suicide in a super. Thanks for being a retard and suggesting that NOTHING CAN KILL THEM IN THAT TIME PERIOD. That might be the single stupidest thing posted in this thread so far.
  3092.  
  3093. + - 2
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  3100.  
  3101. #99 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #99] Kinizsi
  3102.  
  3103. Member
  3104. Nulli Secunda
  3105. PipPip
  3106. 19 posts
  3107.  
  3108. Corporation Name:FREE GATES
  3109. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3110.  
  3111. Posted Yesterday, 03:51 PM
  3112.  
  3113. Rise Altol, on 04 Mar 2015 - 4:34 PM, said:
  3114.  
  3115. 400 % + to the Linkcycle. Will make ops go even longer. Somebody do the math. Also the super will be a sitting duck that can not receive any remote reps etc...
  3116.  
  3117. Entosis Links have a significant cycle time (5 minutes for the Tech One variant, 2 minutes for Tech Two )
  3118.  
  3119.  
  3120.  
  3121. With 400% it means that a super cycle in 8 minutes with a T2 :) and 20 minute for the T1
  3122.  
  3123.  
  3124.  
  3125. It is not written anywhere that you can not cancel your cycle if you activated the entosis link. So yes, sitting duck, for 8 minutes, but you can cancel anytime if you drop low on armor and get some reps from them,Yes, you cancel your entrosis timer but while they were focusing your super the other 5+ supers got advanced in their cycle. So by tanking without remote reps you gain time for your other fleet members to finish their started cycle. It's not likely that the enemy cancels 6 or more super siege cycles under 8 minutes cause the extreme EHP of the supercapitals.
  3126.  
  3127. + - 0
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  3132.  
  3133. #100 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #100] Kinizsi
  3134.  
  3135. Member
  3136. Nulli Secunda
  3137. PipPip
  3138. 19 posts
  3139.  
  3140. Corporation Name:FREE GATES
  3141. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3142.  
  3143. Posted Yesterday, 03:54 PM
  3144.  
  3145. Jean Leaner, on 04 Mar 2015 - 4:46 PM, said:
  3146.  
  3147. Here retard, lets do some math for you.
  3148.  
  3149.  
  3150.  
  3151. A fully bonused aeon in full tank has ~54m hp.
  3152.  
  3153.  
  3154.  
  3155. Your cycle time in a super will be 10 minutes
  3156.  
  3157.  
  3158.  
  3159. You cannot be repped.
  3160.  
  3161.  
  3162.  
  3163.  
  3164.  
  3165. 9 Dreads or 140 ishtars will kill your super before your cycle ends.
  3166.  
  3167.  
  3168.  
  3169.  
  3170.  
  3171. Welcome to how to commit suicide in a super. Thanks for being a retard and suggesting that NOTHING CAN KILL THEM IN THAT TIME PERIOD. That might be the single stupidest thing posted in this thread so far.
  3172.  
  3173. Please show me where it it written that entosis link modul can't be cancelled if you started it's cycle.
  3174.  
  3175. It's not like lighting cyno where you can't do anything else than self destruct to end your cycle early.
  3176.  
  3177. You cancell it if you reach half armour or something, than you can get remote rep and get repped up.
  3178.  
  3179.  
  3180.  
  3181. You are the retard go f*ck yourself :)
  3182.  
  3183. + - 0
  3184.  
  3185. Quote
  3186. MultiQuote
  3187. Report
  3188.  
  3189. blazigen
  3190.  
  3191. Advanced Member
  3192. Nulli Secunda
  3193. PipPipPip
  3194. 69 posts
  3195.  
  3196. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  3197. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3198.  
  3199. Posted Yesterday, 03:55 PM
  3200. Jean save the stroke. Dont give any special fucking snowflakes the satisfaction.
  3201.  
  3202. + - 0
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  3209.  
  3210. #102 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #102] Jean Leaner
  3211.  
  3212. Is better than you
  3213. Administrators
  3214. 440 posts
  3215.  
  3216. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  3217. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3218.  
  3219. Posted Yesterday, 03:57 PM
  3220.  
  3221. Kinizsi, on 04 Mar 2015 - 4:54 PM, said:
  3222.  
  3223. Please show me where it it written that entosis link modul can't be cancelled if you started it's cycle.
  3224.  
  3225. It's not like lighting cyno where you can't do anything else than self destruct to end your cycle early.
  3226.  
  3227.  
  3228.  
  3229. Have you never used a module in this game before? Until the spinny bar on your module goes around, it stays active. Please get the fuck out now.
  3230.  
  3231. + - 1
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  3238.  
  3239. #103 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #103] Jean Leaner
  3240.  
  3241. Is better than you
  3242. Administrators
  3243. 440 posts
  3244.  
  3245. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  3246. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3247.  
  3248. Posted Yesterday, 03:59 PM
  3249.  
  3250. I mean fuck me, at least when I speculate I don't use bad logic to try to justify it like: Well it will work like no other module in the game and reset its cycle when you want it to! Seriously people? There is nothing in the entirety of this game that cycles off because you want it to.
  3251.  
  3252. + - 1
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  3259.  
  3260. #104 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #104] Gilbaron
  3261.  
  3262. Advanced Member
  3263. Nulli Secunda
  3264. PipPipPip
  3265. 182 posts
  3266.  
  3267. Corporation Name:Free-Space-Ranger
  3268. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3269.  
  3270. Posted Yesterday, 04:07 PM
  3271.  
  3272. just like you can cancel siege, bastion and triage ?
  3273.  
  3274. + - 0
  3275.  
  3276. 62w7ubx.giff0bd62abc905f669ff9e32ba4f02dc29.png
  3277.  
  3278. Quote
  3279. MultiQuote
  3280. Report
  3281.  
  3282. #105 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #105] Gilbaron
  3283.  
  3284. Advanced Member
  3285. Nulli Secunda
  3286. PipPipPip
  3287. 182 posts
  3288.  
  3289. Corporation Name:Free-Space-Ranger
  3290. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3291.  
  3292. Posted Yesterday, 04:08 PM
  3293.  
  3294. Jean Leaner, on 04 Mar 2015 - 4:59 PM, said:
  3295.  
  3296. I mean fuck me, at least when I speculate I don't use bad logic to try to justify it like: Well it will work like no other module in the game and reset its cycle when you want it to! Seriously people? There is nothing in the entirety of this game that cycles off because you want it to.
  3297.  
  3298.  
  3299.  
  3300. strip miners :)
  3301.  
  3302. + - 0
  3303.  
  3304. 62w7ubx.giff0bd62abc905f669ff9e32ba4f02dc29.png
  3305.  
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  3308. Report
  3309.  
  3310. #106 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #106] Jean Leaner
  3311.  
  3312. Is better than you
  3313. Administrators
  3314. 440 posts
  3315.  
  3316. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  3317. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3318.  
  3319. Posted Yesterday, 04:09 PM
  3320.  
  3321. Ah, yes, the offensive module will absolutely work like a miner. I should have guessed thats the line of logic they would use. Thank you Gilbaron.
  3322.  
  3323. + - 1
  3324.  
  3325. tFB6CyV.gif
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  3330.  
  3331. #107 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #107] Rise Altol
  3332.  
  3333. Advanced Member
  3334. Nulli Secunda
  3335. PipPipPip
  3336. 78 posts
  3337.  
  3338. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  3339. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3340.  
  3341. Posted Yesterday, 04:11 PM
  3342. Because there is not a single module in eve that stops before the cycle has finished if I remember that right. But I am not sure on this one
  3343.  
  3344. + - 0
  3345.  
  3346. mZYXS.gif
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  3350. Report
  3351.  
  3352. #108 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #108] Jean Leaner
  3353.  
  3354. Is better than you
  3355. Administrators
  3356. 440 posts
  3357.  
  3358. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  3359. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3360.  
  3361. Posted Yesterday, 04:17 PM
  3362.  
  3363. Hope you guys who love thsi enjoy four hour mandatory nightly CTA's.
  3364.  
  3365.  
  3366.  
  3367. Because thats whats going to be required.
  3368.  
  3369. + - 0
  3370.  
  3371. tFB6CyV.gif
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  3376.  
  3377. #109 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #109] Roman Lynch
  3378.  
  3379. Member
  3380. Nulli Secunda
  3381. PipPip
  3382. 27 posts
  3383.  
  3384. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  3385. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3386.  
  3387. Posted Yesterday, 04:31 PM
  3388.  
  3389. so i guess we can't jam the ships then huh? because it requires a lock...... I guess we can't kill inties or frigates any more. Guess we can't muster enough forces to fight off an attack on our space any more. Guess ratting and mining to make sure they take 40 minutes and not 10 is too much to ask for from this alliance. YOUR RIGHT! LET'S JUST PACK UP AND GO HOME. THE SKY IS FALLING.....
  3390.  
  3391. + - 2
  3392.  
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  3396.  
  3397. #110 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #110] Jean Leaner
  3398.  
  3399. Is better than you
  3400. Administrators
  3401. 440 posts
  3402.  
  3403. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  3404. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3405.  
  3406. Posted Yesterday, 04:36 PM
  3407. Retard
  3408.  
  3409. + - 0
  3410.  
  3411. tFB6CyV.gif
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  3416.  
  3417. #111 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #111] Retmas
  3418.  
  3419. Advanced Member
  3420. Nulli Secunda
  3421. PipPipPip
  3422. 292 posts
  3423.  
  3424. LocationSterling VA
  3425. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  3426. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3427.  
  3428. Posted Yesterday, 04:39 PM
  3429.  
  3430. to be fair, arty svipuls will be a pretty core concept if this goes through unchanged. fast and alpha.
  3431.  
  3432. + - 0
  3433.  
  3434. CjKSlRL.gif
  3435.  
  3436.  
  3437.  
  3438. WInning EVE, one bureaucratic dithering at a time!
  3439.  
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  3443.  
  3444. #112 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #112] El Deuce
  3445.  
  3446. Member
  3447. Nulli Secunda
  3448. PipPip
  3449. 23 posts
  3450.  
  3451. Corporation Name:Pwn 'N Play
  3452. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3453.  
  3454. Posted Yesterday, 04:39 PM
  3455.  
  3456. Jean Leaner, on 04 Mar 2015 - 4:42 PM, said:
  3457.  
  3458. Hi, the interceptors don't have to sit in place. Try reading the devblog. You can fit a 8km m/s interceptor that has 150km lockrange. Good luck killing that as it orbits faster than anything can chase it down and if you can contest it burns out of its lock range and ENDS ITS CYCLE MANUALLY AND LEAVES. You think 20 is a problem. How about 200, in every system you own across a region at the same time, reinforcing at the rate of one strcuture every TWO MINUTES, not five, TWO.
  3459.  
  3460. What in the fuck is fun about that for you? Its fun for the guy fucking with you because he's making you want to commit suicide, its completely fucking unfun for you. You can continue to have some misguided belief that you know better than the people who have spent years organizing alliances, or you can take our word that on any level of ownership this will be a god damn nightmare to deal with. That includes owning literally one system. The effort is in no way worth the fucking risk or stress.
  3461.  
  3462.  
  3463.  
  3464. Jesus, relax a bit. By "In one place" I did not mean the target was stationary. I meant you'd know exactly where the aggressor is. I'm optimistic about this change, not completely bumblefuck retarded.
  3465.  
  3466. How is it going to be fun for them if the defenders just activate their modules to halt progress? If you say something like "it makes you put ships in field to defend" I'm going to say "great, fucking content hells yeah!" And don't even tell me we don't have dudes that would love to troll the troller just by activating their module and waiting till the troll gets bored.
  3467.  
  3468. Also, this is the first announcement,it'll change. Go have a beer and relax. I'd buy you one if I could, just to see all this energy in action.
  3469.  
  3470. + - 3
  3471.  
  3472. Quote
  3473. MultiQuote
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  3475.  
  3476. #113 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #113] Retmas
  3477.  
  3478. Advanced Member
  3479. Nulli Secunda
  3480. PipPipPip
  3481. 292 posts
  3482.  
  3483. LocationSterling VA
  3484. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  3485. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3486.  
  3487. Posted Yesterday, 04:41 PM
  3488.  
  3489. Kinizsi, on 04 Mar 2015 - 4:51 PM, said:
  3490.  
  3491. Entosis Links have a significant cycle time (5 minutes for the Tech One variant, 2 minutes for Tech Two )
  3492.  
  3493.  
  3494.  
  3495. With 400% it means that a super cycle in 8 minutes with a T2 :) and 20 minute for the T1
  3496.  
  3497.  
  3498.  
  3499. It is not written anywhere that you can not cancel your cycle if you activated the entosis link. So yes, sitting duck, for 8 minutes, but you can cancel anytime if you drop low on armor and get some reps from them,Yes, you cancel your entrosis timer but while they were focusing your super the other 5+ supers got advanced in their cycle. So by tanking without remote reps you gain time for your other fleet members to finish their started cycle. It's not likely that the enemy cancels 6 or more super siege cycles under 8 minutes cause the extreme EHP of the supercapitals.
  3500.  
  3501.  
  3502.  
  3503. +400% adds to the original time.
  3504.  
  3505.  
  3506.  
  3507. it's 25 minutes for T1 and 10 minutes for T2.
  3508.  
  3509.  
  3510.  
  3511. this thread is amazing.
  3512.  
  3513.  
  3514.  
  3515. curse missions are nice too.
  3516.  
  3517. + - 1
  3518.  
  3519. CjKSlRL.gif
  3520.  
  3521.  
  3522.  
  3523. WInning EVE, one bureaucratic dithering at a time!
  3524.  
  3525. Quote
  3526. MultiQuote
  3527. Report
  3528.  
  3529. #114 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #114] Retmas
  3530.  
  3531. Advanced Member
  3532. Nulli Secunda
  3533. PipPipPip
  3534. 292 posts
  3535.  
  3536. LocationSterling VA
  3537. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  3538. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3539.  
  3540. Posted Yesterday, 04:42 PM
  3541.  
  3542. Jean Leaner, on 04 Mar 2015 - 5:09 PM, said:
  3543.  
  3544. Ah, yes, the offensive module will absolutely work like a miner. I should have guessed thats the line of logic they would use. Thank you Gilbaron.
  3545.  
  3546.  
  3547.  
  3548.  
  3549.  
  3550. this IS ccp we're talking about here. it might very well go that way, they've done things with less logical application.
  3551.  
  3552.  
  3553.  
  3554. but, no, it'll almost certainly work exactly like hictor bubbles - you're stuck with it for the full 15s/2m/10m/etc
  3555.  
  3556. + - 0
  3557.  
  3558. CjKSlRL.gif
  3559.  
  3560.  
  3561.  
  3562. WInning EVE, one bureaucratic dithering at a time!
  3563.  
  3564. Quote
  3565. MultiQuote
  3566. Report
  3567.  
  3568. #115 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #115] Inira Serra
  3569.  
  3570. Member
  3571. Nulli Secunda
  3572. PipPip
  3573. 28 posts
  3574.  
  3575. Corporation Name:Pwn 'N Play
  3576. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3577.  
  3578. Posted Yesterday, 04:46 PM
  3579.  
  3580. Retmas, on 04 Mar 2015 - 5:42 PM, said:
  3581.  
  3582. this IS ccp we're talking about here. it might very well go that way, they've done things with less logical application.
  3583.  
  3584.  
  3585.  
  3586. but, no, it'll almost certainly work exactly like hictor bubbles - you're stuck with it for the full 15s/2m/10m/etc
  3587.  
  3588.  
  3589.  
  3590. I'm wondering if they will end up having a speed penalty similar to hictor bubbles since every other module in the game that is comparable to this has one.
  3591.  
  3592. + - 0
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  3594. Quote
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  3597.  
  3598. #116 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #116] Jean Leaner
  3599.  
  3600. Is better than you
  3601. Administrators
  3602. 440 posts
  3603.  
  3604. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  3605. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3606.  
  3607. Posted Yesterday, 04:47 PM
  3608. You mean it will work lime every module. Guns, ewar, rr, hardeners, tracking mods, sebos, they all work that way
  3609.  
  3610. + - 0
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  3617.  
  3618. #117 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #117] Thorgaddon
  3619.  
  3620. Newbie
  3621. Nulli Secunda
  3622. Pip
  3623. 9 posts
  3624.  
  3625. LocationCzech Republic
  3626. Corporation Name:Bohemian Veterans
  3627. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3628.  
  3629. Posted Yesterday, 04:54 PM
  3630.  
  3631. Concerning interceptor menace I have one idea:
  3632.  
  3633. Lets say we have three indices in the system (strategic, industry, military) taken into account which ship size can use link to "hack" system. You add up all three indices to get number between 0 and 15.
  3634.  
  3635. Systems with 0-2 rating can be hacked by frigs and higher
  3636.  
  3637. Systems with 3-5 by desties+
  3638.  
  3639. Systems with 6-8 by cruisers+
  3640.  
  3641. Systems with 9-11 by BCs+
  3642.  
  3643. Systems with 12+ by BS+
  3644.  
  3645. This applies for attackers, defenders need one level lower class to "hack".
  3646.  
  3647. Link range is 25km for T2 - you wanna fight, not to avoid defenders, right?
  3648.  
  3649.  
  3650.  
  3651. Thus the best used systems are really difficult to capture and attacker must risk more expensive fleet in order to "headshot" alliance.
  3652.  
  3653. BTW why industry rating is not calculated according to production in that system? :angry:
  3654.  
  3655. + - 0
  3656.  
  3657. Quote
  3658. MultiQuote
  3659. Report
  3660.  
  3661. #118 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #118] Roman Lynch
  3662.  
  3663. Member
  3664. Nulli Secunda
  3665. PipPip
  3666. 27 posts
  3667.  
  3668. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  3669. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3670.  
  3671. Posted Yesterday, 04:55 PM
  3672.  
  3673. over reactor ...
  3674.  
  3675. + - 0
  3676.  
  3677. Quote
  3678. MultiQuote
  3679. Report
  3680.  
  3681. #119 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #119] Roman Lynch
  3682.  
  3683. Member
  3684. Nulli Secunda
  3685. PipPip
  3686. 27 posts
  3687.  
  3688. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  3689. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3690.  
  3691. Posted Yesterday, 05:00 PM
  3692.  
  3693. http://memegenerator...stance/59860069
  3694.  
  3695. + - -1
  3696.  
  3697. Quote
  3698. MultiQuote
  3699. Report
  3700.  
  3701. #120 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #120] Alisyana
  3702.  
  3703. Advanced Member
  3704. Nulli Secunda
  3705. PipPipPip
  3706. 176 posts
  3707.  
  3708. Corporation Name:Trans Secunda
  3709. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3710.  
  3711. Posted Yesterday, 05:03 PM
  3712.  
  3713. No sense in speculating anything at this point, guys. The only thing we can do is keep the pressure on CCP, as this is in comment phase, it's not the final patch notes. In the meantime, people can theorycraft all they want, but the way it appears based on what we know now, is the risks of holding sov and structures isn't worth the benefits.
  3714.  
  3715.  
  3716.  
  3717. If we can't make money to fund our existence through sov, we have to look for other ways to do it.
  3718.  
  3719. + - 1
  3720.  
  3721. Quote
  3722. MultiQuote
  3723. Report
  3724.  
  3725. Jean Leaner
  3726.  
  3727. Is better than you
  3728. Administrators
  3729. 440 posts
  3730.  
  3731. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  3732. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3733.  
  3734. Posted Yesterday, 05:09 PM
  3735. People think I'm all infuriated or something here. The only shit pissing me off is the blanket rubber stamping people who have zero clue about how this is going to work and will in no way be contributing to leading the effort to do anything are giving it. I'm playing wait and see, but reality is if it stays as is holding sov will not be worth the effort compared to the c ok ntent and quality of life of unanchoring yourself and shitting on people from npc space and holding all the moons as your income source.
  3736.  
  3737. + - 2
  3738.  
  3739. tFB6CyV.gif
  3740.  
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  3742. MultiQuote
  3743. Report
  3744.  
  3745. #122 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #122] weedCore Alduin
  3746.  
  3747. Newbie
  3748. Nulli Secunda
  3749. Pip
  3750. 2 posts
  3751.  
  3752. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  3753. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3754.  
  3755. Posted Yesterday, 05:11 PM
  3756.  
  3757. Burn JITA .......Secunda reich Style :D
  3758.  
  3759. + - 0
  3760.  
  3761. Quote
  3762. MultiQuote
  3763. Report
  3764.  
  3765. #123 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #123] Koranaka
  3766.  
  3767. Newbie
  3768. Nulli Secunda
  3769. Pip
  3770. 7 posts
  3771.  
  3772. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  3773. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3774.  
  3775. Posted Yesterday, 05:50 PM
  3776.  
  3777. Alisyana, on 04 Mar 2015 - 6:03 PM, said:
  3778.  
  3779. No sense in speculating anything at this point, guys. The only thing we can do is keep the pressure on CCP, as this is in comment phase, it's not the final patch notes. In the meantime, people can theorycraft all they want, but the way it appears based on what we know now, is the risks of holding sov and structures isn't worth the benefits.
  3780.  
  3781.  
  3782.  
  3783. If we can't make money to fund our existence through sov, we have to look for other ways to do it.
  3784.  
  3785. look at you with your level head.
  3786.  
  3787.  
  3788.  
  3789. I was enjoying jean breaking into new levels of retard :D
  3790.  
  3791. + - 2
  3792.  
  3793. Quote
  3794. MultiQuote
  3795. Report
  3796.  
  3797. #124 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #124] Rise Altol
  3798.  
  3799. Advanced Member
  3800. Nulli Secunda
  3801. PipPipPip
  3802. 78 posts
  3803.  
  3804. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  3805. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3806.  
  3807. Posted Yesterday, 06:21 PM
  3808.  
  3809. I still feel like ccp is is going a wrong direction and I don't know why with the help of the csm and the players.
  3810.  
  3811.  
  3812.  
  3813. MMbC1Dt.gif
  3814.  
  3815. + - 0
  3816.  
  3817. mZYXS.gif
  3818.  
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  3820. MultiQuote
  3821. Report
  3822.  
  3823. #125 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #125] Retmas
  3824.  
  3825. Advanced Member
  3826. Nulli Secunda
  3827. PipPipPip
  3828. 292 posts
  3829.  
  3830. LocationSterling VA
  3831. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  3832. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3833.  
  3834. Posted Yesterday, 06:22 PM
  3835.  
  3836. Jean Leaner, on 04 Mar 2015 - 6:09 PM, said:
  3837.  
  3838. People think I'm all infuriated or something here. The only shit pissing me off is the blanket rubber stamping people who have zero clue about how this is going to work and will in no way be contributing to leading the effort to do anything are giving it. I'm playing wait and see, but reality is if it stays as is holding sov will not be worth the effort compared to the c ok ntent and quality of life of unanchoring yourself and shitting on people from npc space and holding all the moons as your income source.
  3839.  
  3840.  
  3841.  
  3842.  
  3843.  
  3844. well, why not? nulli's talked about going sovless before. been widely established that it would be good for the health of the alliance, although a transition. BL did it quite well for a long time, although the cultures are quite different.
  3845.  
  3846. + - 1
  3847.  
  3848. CjKSlRL.gif
  3849.  
  3850.  
  3851.  
  3852. WInning EVE, one bureaucratic dithering at a time!
  3853.  
  3854. Quote
  3855. MultiQuote
  3856. Report
  3857.  
  3858. #126 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #126] RatKnight1
  3859.  
  3860. Advanced Member
  3861. Nulli Secunda
  3862. PipPipPip
  3863. 279 posts
  3864.  
  3865. LocationHeaven
  3866. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  3867. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3868.  
  3869. Posted Yesterday, 06:34 PM
  3870. I think if this goes through as stated here... Which admittedly is unlikely, that will be exactly what we wind up doing.
  3871.  
  3872. + - 0
  3873.  
  3874. 7KXcuf4.jpg
  3875.  
  3876. Quote
  3877. MultiQuote
  3878. Report
  3879.  
  3880. #127 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #127] Nituspar
  3881.  
  3882. Advanced Member
  3883. Nulli Secunda
  3884. PipPipPip
  3885. 201 posts
  3886.  
  3887. Corporation Name:Shiva
  3888. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3889.  
  3890. Posted Yesterday, 08:45 PM
  3891.  
  3892. Honestly, the biggest reason I'm afraid these changes will go through very similar to how they're proposed is beacuse of the amount of people that are utterly clueless about sov mechanics, and how this new system will work in practice. (And the high amount of people who still think they understand the new system and it's implications despite being clueless).
  3893.  
  3894.  
  3895.  
  3896. I highly doubt CCP has listened to the CSM in the least about these changes either to even release such a retarded dev blog about the first iteration of things.
  3897.  
  3898.  
  3899.  
  3900. This system will be fun for:
  3901.  
  3902.  
  3903.  
  3904. 1. People who never wanted any sov but just want to fuck with sov owners for 0 risk and low effort
  3905.  
  3906. 2. New people that get sov as a result of no one caring anymore, until they get hellcamped for 2 days and ransomed for several hundred billion ISK for all their assets by any organized entity... And their "home" taken meanwhile by 30 interceptors with Jove sov lasers. (Just leave an alliance with the opposite timezone from your coalition light-deployed there until they pay)
  3907.  
  3908. + - 0
  3909.  
  3910. Quote
  3911. MultiQuote
  3912. Report
  3913.  
  3914. #128 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #128] Gorga
  3915.  
  3916. Advanced Member
  3917. Administrators
  3918. 226 posts
  3919.  
  3920. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  3921. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3922.  
  3923. Posted Yesterday, 09:19 PM
  3924.  
  3925. Interesting discussion.
  3926.  
  3927. + - 0
  3928.  
  3929. Quote
  3930. MultiQuote
  3931. Report
  3932.  
  3933. #129 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #129] Koshie Naranek
  3934.  
  3935. Member
  3936. Nulli Secunda
  3937. PipPip
  3938. 11 posts
  3939.  
  3940. LocationFlorida
  3941. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  3942. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3943.  
  3944. Posted Yesterday, 09:38 PM
  3945.  
  3946. I'll be an optimist. June is a ways away. Maybe they fit on bigger ships only or cost a lot. All for the little guy to have an impact but this should not be one sided.
  3947.  
  3948.  
  3949.  
  3950. #rosecoloredglasses
  3951.  
  3952.  
  3953.  
  3954. Hope smart minds prevail before June.
  3955.  
  3956. + - 0
  3957.  
  3958. Quote
  3959. MultiQuote
  3960. Report
  3961.  
  3962. #130 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #130] Jean Leaner
  3963.  
  3964. Is better than you
  3965. Administrators
  3966. 440 posts
  3967.  
  3968. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  3969. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  3970.  
  3971. Posted Yesterday, 09:45 PM
  3972.  
  3973. They said it has low fitting requirements
  3974.  
  3975.  
  3976.  
  3977. They said it costs 80m
  3978.  
  3979.  
  3980.  
  3981. Take off the rose colored glasses and read the reality.
  3982.  
  3983. + - 1
  3984.  
  3985. tFB6CyV.gif
  3986.  
  3987. Quote
  3988. MultiQuote
  3989. Report
  3990.  
  3991. #131 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #131] Xiru Keikira
  3992.  
  3993. Advanced Member
  3994. Nulli Secunda
  3995. PipPipPip
  3996. 107 posts
  3997.  
  3998. LocationBible Belt, USA
  3999. Corporation Name:Shiva
  4000. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4001.  
  4002. Posted Yesterday, 09:46 PM
  4003.  
  4004. the t2 one is 80mil the t1 one is 20mil..
  4005.  
  4006. + - 0
  4007.  
  4008. VuzFiJu.gif
  4009.  
  4010. Quote
  4011. MultiQuote
  4012. Report
  4013.  
  4014. #132 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #132] Roman Lynch
  4015.  
  4016. Member
  4017. Nulli Secunda
  4018. PipPip
  4019. 27 posts
  4020.  
  4021. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  4022. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4023.  
  4024. Posted Yesterday, 10:02 PM
  4025.  
  4026. we will be alright I am sure...
  4027.  
  4028.  
  4029.  
  4030.  
  4031. + - 0
  4032.  
  4033. Quote
  4034. MultiQuote
  4035. Report
  4036.  
  4037. #133 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #133] Mad Crafter
  4038.  
  4039. Advanced Member
  4040. Nulli Secunda
  4041. PipPipPip
  4042. 42 posts
  4043.  
  4044. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  4045. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4046.  
  4047. Posted Yesterday, 10:32 PM
  4048.  
  4049. Like it or not something very similar to this will be put live in a few months. We can ether spend this time moping, or turning nulli into something that will thrive in the new environment. What I said earlier about needed a shift in mentality is true. Not just for high counsel and FCs, but average members too.
  4050.  
  4051.  
  4052.  
  4053. We need to respond the the first attack on our sov, and quickly too. Our current roster of FCs will be burned out inside a month if it falls to them to lead every fleet. Many of the average members need to step up and lead the small fleets (less then 20). They also need a few cheep concepts that will be SRPed regardless of who the FC is.
  4054.  
  4055.  
  4056.  
  4057. I'm willing to bet most people will attack sov structures as a way to force a fight. Yes their will be some (possible many) what will do it to be dicks, and others what want to take/ransom your stuff.
  4058.  
  4059.  
  4060.  
  4061. And if 8km/s 150k range ceptors become a thing (I hope they don't), well everything has a counter. Possible counters include:
  4062.  
  4063. T3 sniper dessys. I bet the caldari one would be great at this
  4064.  
  4065. 9km/s dramiels
  4066.  
  4067. 12km/s drones. See my ishtar fit
  4068.  
  4069. Planting a cloaked web rapier in their path
  4070.  
  4071.  
  4072.  
  4073.  
  4074. [Ishtar, With links]
  4075. Co-Processor II
  4076. Signal Amplifier II
  4077. Armor Explosive Hardener II
  4078. Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
  4079. Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
  4080.  
  4081. Drone Navigation Computer II
  4082. Drone Navigation Computer II
  4083. Drone Navigation Computer II
  4084. Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
  4085. Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
  4086.  
  4087. Drone Link Augmentor II
  4088. Drone Link Augmentor II
  4089. Drone Link Augmentor II
  4090. Drone Link Augmentor II
  4091.  
  4092. Medium Processor Overclocking Unit II
  4093. Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
  4094.  
  4095. Warrior II x5
  4096. Warrior II x70
  4097.  
  4098. [Rapier, Anti inty]
  4099. [empty low slot]
  4100. [empty low slot]
  4101. [empty low slot]
  4102. [empty low slot]
  4103.  
  4104. Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
  4105. Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
  4106. True Sansha Stasis Webifier
  4107. True Sansha Stasis Webifier
  4108. Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
  4109. Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
  4110.  
  4111. Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
  4112. [empty high slot]
  4113. [empty high slot]
  4114. [empty high slot]
  4115.  
  4116. Medium Targeting Systems Stabilizer II
  4117. Medium Targeting Systems Stabilizer II
  4118.  
  4119.  
  4120. + - 0
  4121.  
  4122. Quote
  4123. MultiQuote
  4124. Report
  4125.  
  4126. #134 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #134] Nituspar
  4127.  
  4128. Advanced Member
  4129. Nulli Secunda
  4130. PipPipPip
  4131. 201 posts
  4132.  
  4133. Corporation Name:Shiva
  4134. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4135.  
  4136. Posted Yesterday, 10:46 PM
  4137.  
  4138. Mad Crafter, on 04 Mar 2015 - 11:32 PM, said:
  4139.  
  4140.  
  4141.  
  4142. Like it or not something very similar to this will be put live in a few months. We can ether spend this time moping, or turning nulli into something that will thrive in the new environment. What I said earlier about needed a shift in mentality is true. Not just for high counsel and FCs, but average members too.
  4143.  
  4144.  
  4145.  
  4146. We need to respond the the first attack on our sov, and quickly too. Our current roster of FCs will be burned out inside a month if it falls to them to lead every fleet. Many of the average members need to step up and lead the small fleets (less then 20). They also need a few cheep concepts that will be SRPed regardless of who the FC is.
  4147.  
  4148.  
  4149.  
  4150. I'm willing to bet most people will attack sov structures as a way to force a fight. Yes their will be some (possible many) what will do it to be dicks, and others what want to take/ransom your stuff.
  4151.  
  4152.  
  4153.  
  4154. And if 8km/s 150k range ceptors become a thing (I hope they don't), well everything has a counter. Possible counters include:
  4155.  
  4156. T3 sniper dessys. I bet the caldari one would be great at this
  4157.  
  4158. 9km/s dramiels
  4159.  
  4160. 12km/s drones. See my ishtar fit
  4161.  
  4162. Planting a cloaked web rapier in their path
  4163.  
  4164.  
  4165.  
  4166.  
  4167. [Ishtar, With links]
  4168. Co-Processor II
  4169. Signal Amplifier II
  4170. Armor Explosive Hardener II
  4171. Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
  4172. Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
  4173.  
  4174. Drone Navigation Computer II
  4175. Drone Navigation Computer II
  4176. Drone Navigation Computer II
  4177. Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
  4178. Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
  4179.  
  4180. Drone Link Augmentor II
  4181. Drone Link Augmentor II
  4182. Drone Link Augmentor II
  4183. Drone Link Augmentor II
  4184.  
  4185. Medium Processor Overclocking Unit II
  4186. Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
  4187.  
  4188. Warrior II x5
  4189. Warrior II x70
  4190.  
  4191. [Rapier, Anti inty]
  4192. [empty low slot]
  4193. [empty low slot]
  4194. [empty low slot]
  4195. [empty low slot]
  4196.  
  4197. Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
  4198. Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
  4199. True Sansha Stasis Webifier
  4200. True Sansha Stasis Webifier
  4201. Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
  4202. Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
  4203.  
  4204. Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
  4205. [empty high slot]
  4206. [empty high slot]
  4207. [empty high slot]
  4208.  
  4209. Medium Targeting Systems Stabilizer II
  4210. Medium Targeting Systems Stabilizer II
  4211.  
  4212.  
  4213.  
  4214.  
  4215.  
  4216.  
  4217. Why would we even bother trying to hold sov with these changes instead of just deploying into low/NPC null and fucking with everyone trying to defend theirs against our trollceptors? Defending sov without an overwhelming subcap force against all local threats is fighting windmills with anything even remotely similar to the current devblog suggestions. (Hell, with wormholes and a 1-timer system this is probably the case unless you can field 2-3 times the subcap numbers against all other coalitions in eve that want to screw with your sov)
  4218.  
  4219.  
  4220.  
  4221. On top of that there's no benefit whatsoever in holding sov after the patch with renting being gone due to lack of defensibility, and there's plenty of R64 moons near NPC null and low sec areas that actually provide real alliance-level benefits.
  4222.  
  4223. + - 1
  4224.  
  4225. Quote
  4226. MultiQuote
  4227. Report
  4228.  
  4229. #135 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #135] Gilbaron
  4230.  
  4231. Advanced Member
  4232. Nulli Secunda
  4233. PipPipPip
  4234. 182 posts
  4235.  
  4236. Corporation Name:Free-Space-Ranger
  4237. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4238.  
  4239. Posted Yesterday, 10:54 PM
  4240.  
  4241. and we can turn our renting business into a lovely danegeld business
  4242.  
  4243.  
  4244.  
  4245. nice sov you just claimed, would be a shame if something were to happen to it.
  4246.  
  4247. + - 1
  4248.  
  4249. 62w7ubx.giff0bd62abc905f669ff9e32ba4f02dc29.png
  4250.  
  4251. Quote
  4252. MultiQuote
  4253. Report
  4254.  
  4255. #136 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #136] Eric Xallen
  4256.  
  4257. Advanced Member
  4258. Nulli Secunda
  4259. PipPipPip
  4260. 346 posts
  4261.  
  4262. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  4263. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4264.  
  4265. Posted Yesterday, 10:56 PM
  4266.  
  4267. Nituspar, on 04 Mar 2015 - 9:45 PM, said:
  4268.  
  4269.  
  4270.  
  4271.  
  4272.  
  4273. I highly doubt CCP has listened to the CSM in the least about these changes either to even release such a retarded dev blog about the first iteration of things.
  4274.  
  4275.  
  4276.  
  4277.  
  4278.  
  4279.  
  4280.  
  4281. After Phoebe there was a CSM backlash due to CCP pushing through changes that the CSM had not reviewed and/or had argued against. You'll note that there's no outcry from the CSM this time, at least, none i have yet seen.
  4282.  
  4283.  
  4284.  
  4285. Our own CSM rep has been relatively silent on the issue (because progod) but I'm pretty sure that this time around:
  4286.  
  4287.  
  4288.  
  4289. a) The CSM largely knew what the changes were.
  4290.  
  4291. B) the CSM are largely in favour of the changes.
  4292.  
  4293. c) The CSM would have pointed out the frigate thing and that it is actually INTENTIONAL to fit it on a frigate.
  4294.  
  4295.  
  4296.  
  4297. Don't expect much tweaking to this. They jammed through phoebe, knowing there would be a huge player backlash but they backed their own feelings and ignored the cries and pleas, except for some very minor tweaks. And their devblog on stats is essentially a bit propaganda exercise patting themselves ont e back for a job well done. Its no mistake they did this and released the sov blog. It means 'yes we know you are going to hate this but TRUST US, see, Phoebe worked and this will too'.
  4298.  
  4299.  
  4300.  
  4301. This is not some random shit they thought up, this is somethign they've been polishign with the csm for a while.
  4302.  
  4303. + - 0
  4304.  
  4305. Quote
  4306. MultiQuote
  4307. Report
  4308.  
  4309. #137 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #137] Mad Crafter
  4310.  
  4311. Advanced Member
  4312. Nulli Secunda
  4313. PipPipPip
  4314. 42 posts
  4315.  
  4316. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  4317. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4318.  
  4319. Posted Yesterday, 11:06 PM
  4320.  
  4321. If you find flying troll ceptors fun then go ahead and do that I guess. The answer to who hold sov is better answered by the people who make personal income off it. Currently I like holding sov because it gives me targets to shoot. The new system looks to do that as well.
  4322.  
  4323.  
  4324.  
  4325. While I admit it may be beneficial to have most of your assets in an NPC station till we know how tings are going to settle, I think we should hold off on the doom bell for now.
  4326.  
  4327. + - 0
  4328.  
  4329. Quote
  4330. MultiQuote
  4331. Report
  4332.  
  4333. #138 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #138] Rise Altol
  4334.  
  4335. Advanced Member
  4336. Nulli Secunda
  4337. PipPipPip
  4338. 78 posts
  4339.  
  4340. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  4341. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4342.  
  4343. Posted Yesterday, 11:10 PM
  4344.  
  4345. I don't know how you people feel about this but if i want to instapop ceptors in my t3s i join marmite and go to jita ... not the gameplay i want / 0.0 deserves
  4346.  
  4347. + - 0
  4348.  
  4349. mZYXS.gif
  4350.  
  4351. Quote
  4352. MultiQuote
  4353. Report
  4354.  
  4355. #139 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #139] Teroh Vizjereij
  4356.  
  4357. Advanced Member
  4358. Nulli Secunda
  4359. PipPipPip
  4360. 104 posts
  4361.  
  4362. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  4363. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4364.  
  4365. Posted Yesterday, 11:14 PM
  4366.  
  4367.  
  4368. Jean Leaner, on 04 Mar 2015 - 6:09 PM, said:
  4369.  
  4370. I'm playing wait and see, but reality is if it stays as is holding sov will not be worth the effort compared to the c ok ntent and quality of life of unanchoring yourself and shitting on people from npc space and holding all the moons as your income source.
  4371.  
  4372.  
  4373.  
  4374. You promised us FW .. so we better get FW !
  4375.  
  4376.  
  4377.  
  4378.  
  4379.  
  4380. Gorga, on 04 Mar 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:
  4381.  
  4382. Interesting discussion.
  4383.  
  4384.  
  4385.  
  4386. What do the coalition leaders / HC think about the purposed changes to sov?
  4387.  
  4388. + - 0
  4389.  
  4390. eric_xallen: did that raptor ever get posted?
  4391.  
  4392. eric_xallen: probably never made it past the team speak log
  4393.  
  4394. eric_xallen: Its so nulli. THIS IS ALL YOU EVER SHOULD FLY NOW *never post fit*
  4395.  
  4396. Quote
  4397. MultiQuote
  4398. Report
  4399.  
  4400. #140 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #140] Mad Crafter
  4401.  
  4402. Advanced Member
  4403. Nulli Secunda
  4404. PipPipPip
  4405. 42 posts
  4406.  
  4407. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  4408. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4409.  
  4410. Posted Yesterday, 11:54 PM
  4411.  
  4412. The thread on the eve forums finally got a dev response.
  4413.  
  4414.  
  4415.  
  4416. Quote
  4417.  
  4418.  
  4419.  
  4420. Finally caught up with the thread. :)
  4421.  
  4422. Hey folks, thanks for the feedback so far. I spent most of the day at work today reading feedback (here, on twitter, on reddit, in slack and just about everywhere else), taking notes, and discussing the feedback with the CSM and with our team here in the office. Thanks to all the people that have posted constructive feedback so far, in any of those places.
  4423.  
  4424. I want to reassure people that we've announced these plans this early for a reason. We want to take advantage of the time this gives us to carefully look at feedback and respond without needing to rush anything. In the past we probably would have waited until Fanfest just to get the reveal moment, but at this point we've learned as a company how much more important substance is than spectacle.
  4425.  
  4426. I've noticed a fair bit of skepticism about my comments that this design is built to be flexible, since similar phrases were used back in 2009. I too remember the launch of Dominion sov from the perspective of a player (I'm on record that Dominion is my least favourite EVE expansion) and I can't blame people for being cautious. This is the kind of thing where actions always speak louder than words, so I'll just say that I hope that for many of you the actions you've seen from CCP recently have increased your trust that we will follow through. And for those of you that are still unconvinced, my goal is to change some of your minds with our upcoming actions in this area of Nullsec and Sov.
  4427.  
  4428. Since this thread is a bit hectic, we're currently planning to do approach some of the conversation surrounding these changes a little differently. We'll be reading all the feedback here and elsewhere, and then pulling specific issues into their own dev blogs and own threads for further targeted discussion with fewer distractions. It's a bit of an experiment but I think it has a lot of potential.
  4429.  
  4430. After discussing the early feedback with the team here, we've decided to begin this feedback and iteration process with a focus on the time zone mechanics. We're seeing a ton of discussion and quite a bit of displeasure over the time zone mechanics as they are laid out in the blog.
  4431. So you're going to see us asking a lot of questions in a number of different areas to the players who have opinions on the way we handle time zones in Sov. The goal is to get to the core of the concerns people are expressing about these mechanics, figure out what player needs we are missing in this draft, and see if we can't design a system that meets more of those needs more effectively. I don't expect we're going to make everybody happy, as time zone mechanics are one of the stickiest design issues in a worldwide single shard MMO. However we do think it's likely that your feedback can help get us to a better design than what we have right now.
  4432.  
  4433. I'll also probably be quickly spinning off a discussion of the module balance surrounding the Entosis Link, since that's an area where I expect we can calm some fears relatively easily. The short version is that we have all the tools of EVE's module design at our disposal to ensure that no specific tactics get out of hand. So if problems show up in discussion and playtesting we're happy to let players try to find a counter and then relatively easily step in if that counter doesn't materialize.
  4434.  
  4435. There's a lot of other areas where we're seeing your concern, and we're not forgetting about any of them. Keep posting your feedback calmly and constructively, keep talking to each other, keep theorycrafting and blogging and podcasting. As people spend more time discussing and thinking about the implications of these changes, we know that the collective EVE hive mind will have a lot to offer, as it has in the past.
  4436.  
  4437. I'm gonna call it a night, but expect some of the first issue breakout threads tomorrow (we'll link to them from this thread) and try to leave me with a reasonable number of posts to catch up on in the morning ok? Big smile
  4438.  
  4439. tl;dr we will look at all the feedback, and make more blogs about each issue.
  4440.  
  4441. + - 1
  4442.  
  4443. Quote
  4444. MultiQuote
  4445. Report
  4446. Eric Xallen
  4447.  
  4448. Advanced Member
  4449. Nulli Secunda
  4450. PipPipPip
  4451. 346 posts
  4452.  
  4453. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  4454. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4455.  
  4456. Posted Yesterday, 11:56 PM
  4457.  
  4458. inb4 only command ships can use the entosis link
  4459.  
  4460. + - 2
  4461.  
  4462. Quote
  4463. MultiQuote
  4464. Report
  4465.  
  4466. #142 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #142] Mad Crafter
  4467.  
  4468. Advanced Member
  4469. Nulli Secunda
  4470. PipPipPip
  4471. 42 posts
  4472.  
  4473. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  4474. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4475.  
  4476. Posted Today, 12:22 AM
  4477.  
  4478. Now for something completely stupid! I give you the E-Ling Wyvern!
  4479.  
  4480. The auto targeter represents the E-link
  4481.  
  4482.  
  4483.  
  4484. Made to run with 1 or more partners to keep links on the target at all times. Also the one running it's tank can nos the others for cap. Tank 28k dps with no heat, 35k with only the boosters heated, and 63k dps with full rack heat! An avetar in a command position makes it cap stable, but even without that I can last till it's E-link cycle is done.
  4485.  
  4486.  
  4487. [Wyvern, Entosis]
  4488. Draclira's Modified Power Diagnostic System
  4489. Draclira's Modified Power Diagnostic System
  4490. Draclira's Modified Power Diagnostic System
  4491. Damage Control II
  4492.  
  4493. Capital Neutron Saturation Injector I
  4494. Estamel's Modified Shield Boost Amplifier
  4495. Capital Neutron Saturation Injector I
  4496. Pith X-Type EM Ward Field
  4497. Pith X-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
  4498. Pith X-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
  4499. Pith X-Type Explosive Deflection Field
  4500. Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
  4501.  
  4502. Shaqil's Modified Heavy Nosferatu
  4503. Shaqil's Modified Heavy Nosferatu
  4504. Shaqil's Modified Heavy Nosferatu
  4505. Shaqil's Modified Heavy Nosferatu
  4506. Shaqil's Modified Heavy Nosferatu
  4507. Auto Targeting System II
  4508.  
  4509. Capital Capacitor Control Circuit II
  4510. Capital Capacitor Control Circuit II
  4511. Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
  4512.  
  4513. serous note: If their will be any E-link capitals they will likely be disposable triage.
  4514.  
  4515. + - 0
  4516.  
  4517. Quote
  4518. MultiQuote
  4519. Report
  4520.  
  4521. #143 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #143] Canaris Roshaak
  4522.  
  4523. Advanced Member
  4524. Nulli Secunda
  4525. PipPipPip
  4526. 133 posts
  4527.  
  4528. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  4529. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4530.  
  4531. Posted Today, 12:28 AM
  4532.  
  4533. :words:
  4534.  
  4535.  
  4536.  
  4537. Proposed system gives no value to actually owning space. Gives no *real* reason to roam. (I don't consider orbiting a beacon for 10 minutes just to piss in some dudes cherios a real reason).
  4538.  
  4539.  
  4540.  
  4541. Beacon(TCU Ihub Station) gets reinforced. Takes 10 beacon-orbiting sessions to reset each one. That means 1 nerd who successfully orbits 1 of your beacons for a total of 10ish minutes each will cause you to spend 100 minutes PER beacon they successfully orbited for 10 minutes to reset the beacon. Now multiply this by 30 nerds hitting your 10 systems with 10 tcus and ihubs and stations. 3000 minutes of your folks time spent to counter 300 minutes of their time spent. Now repeat this on a bi-weekly basis.
  4542.  
  4543.  
  4544.  
  4545. Please explain to me how this is fun for either the attacker or defender.
  4546.  
  4547.  
  4548.  
  4549. Far easier to chill in an NPC station and control tons of R64s, which provide real income and actual fights.
  4550.  
  4551. + - 5
  4552.  
  4553. Quote
  4554. MultiQuote
  4555. Report
  4556.  
  4557. #144 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #144] Canaris Roshaak
  4558.  
  4559. Advanced Member
  4560. Nulli Secunda
  4561. PipPipPip
  4562. 133 posts
  4563.  
  4564. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  4565. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4566.  
  4567. Posted Today, 12:29 AM
  4568.  
  4569. shit fit madcrafter a t1 fit triage tanks more
  4570.  
  4571. + - 0
  4572.  
  4573. Quote
  4574. MultiQuote
  4575. Report
  4576.  
  4577. #145 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #145] Ravcharas
  4578.  
  4579. Advanced Member
  4580. Nulli Secunda
  4581. PipPipPip
  4582. 53 posts
  4583.  
  4584. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  4585. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4586.  
  4587. Posted Today, 12:53 AM
  4588.  
  4589. Guderian3, on 04 Mar 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:
  4590.  
  4591. What CCP needs to decide, and many many people have said this, is how many people working in a group is needed to hold x amount of sov.
  4592.  
  4593. What makes you think they haven't?
  4594.  
  4595. + - 0
  4596.  
  4597. Send lawyers, guns and money
  4598.  
  4599. Quote
  4600. MultiQuote
  4601. Report
  4602.  
  4603. #146 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #146] RatKnight1
  4604.  
  4605. Advanced Member
  4606. Nulli Secunda
  4607. PipPipPip
  4608. 279 posts
  4609.  
  4610. LocationHeaven
  4611. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  4612. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4613.  
  4614. Posted Today, 01:00 AM
  4615.  
  4616. Ravcharas, on 05 Mar 2015 - 01:53 AM, said:
  4617.  
  4618. What makes you think they haven't?
  4619.  
  4620.  
  4621. Because they came up with this system.
  4622.  
  4623. + - 0
  4624.  
  4625. 7KXcuf4.jpg
  4626.  
  4627. Quote
  4628. MultiQuote
  4629. Report
  4630.  
  4631. #147 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #147] Ravcharas
  4632.  
  4633. Advanced Member
  4634. Nulli Secunda
  4635. PipPipPip
  4636. 53 posts
  4637.  
  4638. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  4639. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4640.  
  4641. Posted Today, 01:25 AM
  4642.  
  4643. RatKnight1, on 05 Mar 2015 - 02:00 AM, said:
  4644.  
  4645. Because they came up with this system.
  4646.  
  4647. You know, after the nerfs to anomalies, the jumpdrive massacre and fatigue bullshit in phoebe, the increase in wormhole spawns and the introduction of the shattered systems, the ESS, the siphons, and medclone redesign I would have thought people would get it by now; CCP doesn't like how we play the game.
  4648.  
  4649.  
  4650.  
  4651. They want nullsec to be the frontier wild west, where small and intrepid bands of plucky explorers set out to see what they can see. And they are going to punch you in your boycunt until that's how you play it.
  4652.  
  4653. + - 2
  4654.  
  4655. Send lawyers, guns and money
  4656.  
  4657. Quote
  4658. MultiQuote
  4659. Report
  4660.  
  4661. #148 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #148] Alisyana
  4662.  
  4663. Advanced Member
  4664. Nulli Secunda
  4665. PipPipPip
  4666. 176 posts
  4667.  
  4668. Corporation Name:Trans Secunda
  4669. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4670.  
  4671. Posted Today, 01:33 AM
  4672.  
  4673. Gilbaron, on 04 Mar 2015 - 11:54 PM, said:
  4674.  
  4675. and we can turn our renting business into a lovely danegeld business
  4676.  
  4677.  
  4678.  
  4679. nice sov you just claimed, would be a shame if something were to happen to it.
  4680.  
  4681.  
  4682.  
  4683. Yes, there are options. The extortion game is one I used regularly.
  4684.  
  4685. + - 0
  4686.  
  4687. Quote
  4688. MultiQuote
  4689. Report
  4690.  
  4691. #149 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #149] RatKnight1
  4692.  
  4693. Advanced Member
  4694. Nulli Secunda
  4695. PipPipPip
  4696. 279 posts
  4697.  
  4698. LocationHeaven
  4699. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  4700. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4701.  
  4702. Posted Today, 01:36 AM
  4703.  
  4704. Ravcharas, on 05 Mar 2015 - 02:25 AM, said:
  4705.  
  4706. You know, after the nerfs to anomalies, the jumpdrive massacre and fatigue bullshit in phoebe, the increase in wormhole spawns and the introduction of the shattered systems, the ESS, the siphons, and medclone redesign I would have thought people would get it by now; CCP doesn't like how we play the game.
  4707.  
  4708.  
  4709.  
  4710. They want nullsec to be the frontier wild west, where small and intrepid bands of plucky explorers set out to see what they can see. And they are going to punch you in your boycunt until that's how you play it.
  4711.  
  4712.  
  4713.  
  4714. That isn't it at all. They want to end "stagnation" - make it more interesting.
  4715.  
  4716.  
  4717.  
  4718. There are SOOO many better ways to do this, soooo many better suggestions. This change will not create content, it will just involve us moving out of sov, and laughing while we farm moons and kills.
  4719.  
  4720. + - 0
  4721.  
  4722. 7KXcuf4.jpg
  4723.  
  4724. Quote
  4725. MultiQuote
  4726. Report
  4727.  
  4728. #150 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #150] Praetoris Domitian
  4729.  
  4730. Advanced Member
  4731. Nulli Secunda
  4732. PipPipPip
  4733. 124 posts
  4734.  
  4735. Corporation Name:Shiva
  4736. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4737.  
  4738. Posted Today, 02:23 AM
  4739.  
  4740.  
  4741. Jean Leaner, on 04 Mar 2015 - 6:09 PM, said:
  4742.  
  4743. I'm playing wait and see, but reality is if it stays as is holding sov will not be worth the effort compared to the c ok ntent and quality of life of unanchoring yourself and shitting on people from npc space and holding all the moons as your income source.
  4744.  
  4745.  
  4746.  
  4747.  
  4748.  
  4749. Retmas, on 04 Mar 2015 - 7:22 PM, said:
  4750.  
  4751. well, why not? nulli's talked about going sovless before. been widely established that it would be good for the health of the alliance, although a transition. BL did it quite well for a long time, although the cultures are quite different.
  4752.  
  4753.  
  4754.  
  4755.  
  4756.  
  4757. Canaris Roshaak, on 05 Mar 2015 - 01:28 AM, said:
  4758.  
  4759. Far easier to chill in an NPC station and control tons of R64s, which provide real income and actual fights.
  4760.  
  4761.  
  4762.  
  4763.  
  4764.  
  4765. RatKnight1, on 05 Mar 2015 - 02:36 AM, said:
  4766.  
  4767. This change will not create content, it will just involve us moving out of sov, and laughing while we farm moons and kills.
  4768.  
  4769.  
  4770.  
  4771. No sov bills.
  4772.  
  4773. No moving/defending/maintaining sov structures.
  4774.  
  4775. No renters to recruit, do diplomacy, and whatever other paperwork might be involved.
  4776.  
  4777. No worries about the staging station being flipped (0-W).
  4778.  
  4779. Likely closer to hi-sec trade hubs (nice for logistics nerds).
  4780.  
  4781.  
  4782.  
  4783. Some of you might actually get to enjoy Eve again. ;)
  4784.  
  4785. + - 2
  4786.  
  4787. Quote
  4788. MultiQuote
  4789. Report
  4790.  
  4791. #151 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #151] Guderian3
  4792.  
  4793. Advanced Member
  4794. Nulli Secunda
  4795. PipPipPip
  4796. 316 posts
  4797.  
  4798. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  4799. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4800.  
  4801. Posted Today, 03:12 AM
  4802.  
  4803. Ravcharas, on 05 Mar 2015 - 02:25 AM, said:
  4804.  
  4805. You know, after the nerfs to anomalies, the jumpdrive massacre and fatigue bullshit in phoebe, the increase in wormhole spawns and the introduction of the shattered systems, the ESS, the siphons, and medclone redesign I would have thought people would get it by now; CCP doesn't like how we play the game.
  4806.  
  4807.  
  4808.  
  4809. They want nullsec to be the frontier wild west, where small and intrepid bands of plucky explorers set out to see what they can see. And they are going to punch you in your boycunt until that's how you play it.
  4810.  
  4811.  
  4812.  
  4813.  
  4814.  
  4815. There is a difference between breaking up coalitions and then breaking up alliances. As the systems stands with no ISK benefit to holding space it would be hard to justify Nulli Secunda existing as an alliance. Especially with the "prime time" timezone changes. USTZ struggles as it is, under the proposed system, USTZ couldn't even run reinforcement ops to have an impact in that way. As Canaris noted above even a constellation would be difficult to hold under the proposed system.
  4816.  
  4817. + - 0
  4818.  
  4819. Quote
  4820. MultiQuote
  4821. Report
  4822.  
  4823. #152 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #152] Guderian3
  4824.  
  4825. Advanced Member
  4826. Nulli Secunda
  4827. PipPipPip
  4828. 316 posts
  4829.  
  4830. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  4831. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4832.  
  4833. Posted Today, 03:13 AM
  4834.  
  4835. Praetoris Domitian, on 05 Mar 2015 - 03:23 AM, said:
  4836.  
  4837.  
  4838.  
  4839.  
  4840.  
  4841.  
  4842.  
  4843.  
  4844.  
  4845.  
  4846.  
  4847.  
  4848.  
  4849.  
  4850.  
  4851.  
  4852.  
  4853.  
  4854. No sov bills.
  4855.  
  4856. No moving/defending/maintaining sov structures.
  4857.  
  4858. No renters to recruit, do diplomacy, and whatever other paperwork might be involved.
  4859.  
  4860. No worries about the staging station being flipped (0-W).
  4861.  
  4862. Likely closer to hi-sec trade hubs (nice for logistics nerds).
  4863.  
  4864.  
  4865.  
  4866. Some of you might actually get to enjoy Eve again. ;)
  4867.  
  4868.  
  4869.  
  4870.  
  4871.  
  4872. This might be nice if we could get fights that don't involved chasing nano interceptors around space every day. I know different people play different ways but I'm assuming if you're in a null alliance you want fleet fights that are above 20 dudes. 1,000+ man fights aren't exactly fun but I think most of us like 100-250 man fights.
  4873.  
  4874. + - 0
  4875.  
  4876. Quote
  4877. MultiQuote
  4878. Report
  4879.  
  4880. #153 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #153] Andrew Curtin
  4881.  
  4882. Ice runnin' through his veins
  4883. Nulli Secunda
  4884. PipPip
  4885. 12 posts
  4886.  
  4887. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  4888. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4889.  
  4890. Posted Today, 04:11 AM
  4891.  
  4892. still scratching my head on the sov direction, but given that it's happening in some form...
  4893.  
  4894.  
  4895.  
  4896. 1. Entosis links... i would hope ccp would have the foresight and not allow anything below a cruiser fit these. i have faith in fozzie/rise.
  4897.  
  4898. 2. SOV holding should reward individuals for being undocked and active(bounties significantly increase over time undocked? station spinning should be for high sec traders.)
  4899.  
  4900. 3. SOV mechanics should involve all ships. capitals to frigs should all play a distinct role in ranging strategic objectives.
  4901.  
  4902. -it'd be interesting for frigs to have a targeted module that gives bonuses to the cruiser or above ship with the entosis link fitted.
  4903.  
  4904. -entosis links should be more effective the larger the ship, but also have a negative effect for larger ships. ie cruiser would have no/little effect. titan would have -100% velocity bonus + cyno cannot be popped + negative aoe to sensor integrity of all ships(20km-ish).
  4905.  
  4906.  
  4907.  
  4908.  
  4909.  
  4910. blah blah, i could toss ideas out forever. ccp should know by now that releasing half baked features for the sake updating content is a mistake. incarna..... given the community response to really just a rough outline of future changes, i'd expect what's released this summer to be positively iterated on.
  4911.  
  4912.  
  4913.  
  4914. also, instalocking is shittiest mechanic in this game.
  4915.  
  4916. also also, i miss sniper battleships of old
  4917.  
  4918. also also also, ron paul 2016
  4919.  
  4920. + - 1
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  4927.  
  4928. #154 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #154] Praetoris Domitian
  4929.  
  4930. Advanced Member
  4931. Nulli Secunda
  4932. PipPipPip
  4933. 124 posts
  4934.  
  4935. Corporation Name:Shiva
  4936. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4937.  
  4938. Posted Today, 04:36 AM
  4939.  
  4940. Guderian3, on 05 Mar 2015 - 04:13 AM, said:
  4941.  
  4942. This might be nice if we could get fights that don't involved chasing nano interceptors around space every day. I know different people play different ways but I'm assuming if you're in a null alliance you want fleet fights that are above 20 dudes. 1,000+ man fights aren't exactly fun but I think most of us like 100-250 man fights.
  4943.  
  4944. Yeah 100-250 sounds nice. NPC null alliances don't do a lot of inty fleets, they like cruisers too. Though most I've known don't put up 100+ man fleets, so that would only be useful for smallgang roaming. Most likely the only 100-250 fights we would get in sov, or otherwise will be over R64s. And we could get those living in NPC, and controlling moons in neighboring regions. As far as I know sov is two things, money, and your alliances name on the system (I actually don't know the other benefits). So we lose the name part, and the moons (money) become our "sov".
  4945.  
  4946. + - 1
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  4951.  
  4952. #155 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #155] Angela Lagoon
  4953.  
  4954. Newbie
  4955. Nulli Secunda
  4956. Pip
  4957. 8 posts
  4958.  
  4959. LocationMelbourne - Aus
  4960. Corporation Name:Dirty Old Bastards
  4961. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4962.  
  4963. Posted Today, 04:45 AM
  4964.  
  4965. aVZgT.gif
  4966.  
  4967. Man, I gotta reload the container; gimme 10 seconds.
  4968.  
  4969. Anyone else want some?
  4970.  
  4971. + - -1
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  4976.  
  4977. #156 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #156] Guderian3
  4978.  
  4979. Advanced Member
  4980. Nulli Secunda
  4981. PipPipPip
  4982. 316 posts
  4983.  
  4984. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  4985. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  4986.  
  4987. Posted Today, 04:47 AM
  4988.  
  4989. They have to introduce other incentives beyond the pride of owning Sov. This is because they're removing a lot of the best narrative material. No more coaltions with 300 personal fleet fights with 100 dead titans. No more forever wars. That ended with nerfing deployments and now most likely, coalitions.
  4990.  
  4991.  
  4992.  
  4993. What's more fun to read about? BR5 and the BOB/Goons Forever War or " a 20 man Rote Kopelle gang clashed with a 10 man BRAVE gang in Syndicate, and that happened in 100 other systems that same night".
  4994.  
  4995. + - 0
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  5000.  
  5001. #157 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #157] Praetoris Domitian
  5002.  
  5003. Advanced Member
  5004. Nulli Secunda
  5005. PipPipPip
  5006. 124 posts
  5007.  
  5008. Corporation Name:Shiva
  5009. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5010.  
  5011. Posted Today, 04:56 AM
  5012.  
  5013. Yeah tossing this on top of Phoebe should do a good job of ending the big stories.
  5014.  
  5015.  
  5016.  
  5017. (Did you ever live in Syndicate? Most people don't know Rote Kopelle.)
  5018.  
  5019. + - 0
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  5024.  
  5025. #158 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #158] Eligos Quemada
  5026.  
  5027. Advanced Member
  5028. Nulli Secunda
  5029. PipPipPip
  5030. 121 posts
  5031.  
  5032. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  5033. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5034.  
  5035. Posted Today, 05:06 AM
  5036.  
  5037. Most people probably just know Rote Kapelle from AT as participants or as a slightly smarmy but still pretty dashing commentator.
  5038.  
  5039. + - 0
  5040.  
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  5046.  
  5047. #159 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #159] Sludgeface
  5048.  
  5049. Advanced Member
  5050. Nulli Secunda
  5051. PipPipPip
  5052. 96 posts
  5053.  
  5054. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  5055. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5056.  
  5057. Posted Today, 05:08 AM
  5058.  
  5059. this continues to be just shy of totally depressing.
  5060.  
  5061. + - 0
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  5063. cYDWisa.jpg
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  5068.  
  5069. #160 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #160] Guderian3
  5070.  
  5071. Advanced Member
  5072. Nulli Secunda
  5073. PipPipPip
  5074. 316 posts
  5075.  
  5076. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  5077. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5078.  
  5079. Posted Today, 05:09 AM
  5080.  
  5081. I knew Rote from them roaming providence, the AT and I think at one point they fought alongside Cry Havoc or something if memory serves.
  5082.  
  5083. + - 0
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  5088.  
  5089. Amanda Starscream
  5090.  
  5091. Member
  5092. Nulli Secunda
  5093. PipPip
  5094. 24 posts
  5095.  
  5096. Corporation Name:Pwn 'N Play
  5097. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5098.  
  5099. Posted Today, 05:20 AM
  5100.  
  5101. Wow lots of opinions
  5102.  
  5103. + - 0
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  5110.  
  5111. #162 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #162] Joshua Blue
  5112.  
  5113. Advanced Member
  5114. Nulli Secunda
  5115. PipPipPip
  5116. 76 posts
  5117.  
  5118. LocationSydney
  5119. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  5120. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5121.  
  5122. Posted Today, 06:30 AM
  5123.  
  5124. 2806a76ee681f9af418e8495213f532c7de44f2c
  5125.  
  5126. + - 0
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  5131.  
  5132. #163 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #163] Joshua Blue
  5133.  
  5134. Advanced Member
  5135. Nulli Secunda
  5136. PipPipPip
  5137. 76 posts
  5138.  
  5139. LocationSydney
  5140. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  5141. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5142.  
  5143. Posted Today, 06:37 AM
  5144.  
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  5147. + - 0
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  5152.  
  5153. #164 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #164] RatKnight1
  5154.  
  5155. Advanced Member
  5156. Nulli Secunda
  5157. PipPipPip
  5158. 279 posts
  5159.  
  5160. LocationHeaven
  5161. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  5162. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5163.  
  5164. Posted Today, 08:28 AM
  5165.  
  5166. *bangs head against table repeatedly*
  5167.  
  5168. + - 0
  5169.  
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  5175.  
  5176. #165 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #165] Rise Altol
  5177.  
  5178. Advanced Member
  5179. Nulli Secunda
  5180. PipPipPip
  5181. 78 posts
  5182.  
  5183. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  5184. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5185.  
  5186. Posted Today, 09:06 AM
  5187.  
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  5189.  
  5190. + - 1
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  5198. #166 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #166] Mosh Mikhailov
  5199.  
  5200. Member
  5201. Nulli Secunda
  5202. PipPip
  5203. 21 posts
  5204.  
  5205. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  5206. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5207.  
  5208. Posted Today, 10:06 AM
  5209.  
  5210. Hmm, I don't understand why they would do this. I thought Phoebe was the stick and this update was meant to at least have a slice of a carrot in it but it doesn't, typical. Sovereignty is so undervalued and useless that the players had to come up with an emergent reason themselves to place value upon it: renters. This update removes that value and doesn't replace it with anything else at all. All this update seems to do is make sovereignty warfare in EVE Online consist of intentionally producing a headache for no reason, literally that. The problem with that concept is it has already be done and is readily available, for free I might add, to any and all players regardless of their coalition affiliation, sexual orientation, skin color or susceptibility to the fetish of furries. You don't even need entosis links.
  5211.  
  5212.  
  5213.  
  5214.  
  5215.  
  5216. This game is called Head Vs Metal Pole.
  5217.  
  5218.  
  5219.  
  5220.  
  5221.  
  5222. In this game you go outside (or inside if you're lucky) and find the nearest metal pole. A pole is a cylindrical structure with it's length greater than its diameter. Poles are versatile objects which be can used for things like dancing, fighting or even totems, however typically they are used to support structures like houses or power lines and are usually found in and around them. They are very common so you should have no trouble finding one, if you cannot find a pole for some reason a concrete wall will suffice. Once you have found your pole you can then engage in head vs metal pole combat. In order to play you need to place your head against the pole until it makes contact and can move no further. You score more points the more times you move your head back and forth in rapid succession. You gain bonus points based on the amount of momentum generated by your neck in a pole to head cycle, more force - more results! The game ends when you are unable to do it any longer, as a reward you obtain the highly coveted "headache" prize that sovereignty offers and probably some brain damage.
  5223.  
  5224.  
  5225.  
  5226. Jokes aside the reason why I am an advocate for Head vs Metal Pole instead of this edition of sovereignty warfare is because it takes much less time to get the headache result, doesn't cost any money, the process is much more fun (you haven't lived until you've had your head stitched back together!) and because as an Australian timezone player I can actually fucking play it.
  5227.  
  5228.  
  5229.  
  5230. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
  5231.  
  5232.  
  5233.  
  5234. I can just imagine it now. A bunch of CFC/Reaver niggers coming out of a fucking wormhole in the middle on nowhere with 200 pulses reinforcing everything in 2 minutes with tiny siege fleet trash can bullshit and if you actually want to defend you need to have a 4 hour CTA every fucking night monitoring an entire constellation at the minimum (GEE THAT SOUNDS LIKE NOT BORING WARFARE, CFC CERTAINLY WON'T TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT), but that's okay because with a 4 hour window and living in AUTZ I will never get to fucking play anyway unless I want to disable station services like an autist. In a large scale war an entity like the CFC can reinforce all your shit and then just fucking camp you from inside your own fucking station for some reason because it's free ported. Look, I don't claim to be very good with numbers but it doesn't take an accountant to realize that the answer to N+1 is not to make N+1 even more important than it is now.
  5235.  
  5236.  
  5237.  
  5238. This update is stupid as fuck, the only way I can describe it is like throwing money at someones head, seeing it bounce off of it and falling back into my pocket whilst that person stands there looking at me like a retard. In this update I can't actually do anything with sovereignty in the game even if I wanted to simply because of my timezone and if you think I'm going to be relegated to wasting my time defending NA. timers from the 7 jobless Russians that invade Esoteria forever please note that I'd just rather insert my dick down a snakes throat and tickle it's asshole whilst I destroy the brain cells associated with remembering that this game actually used to be fun with the alcohol I can now buy with the money I saved from not subscribing to this game.
  5239.  
  5240. + - 4
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  5245.  
  5246. #167 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #167] Archetype 66
  5247.  
  5248. Advanced Member
  5249. Nulli Secunda
  5250. PipPipPip
  5251. 95 posts
  5252.  
  5253. LocationParis, France
  5254. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  5255. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5256.  
  5257. Posted Today, 10:26 AM
  5258. In fact it needs at least 2+10min to reinforce anything, except stations services.
  5259.  
  5260. + - 0
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  5263. MultiQuote
  5264. Report
  5265.  
  5266. #168 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #168] Eric Xallen
  5267.  
  5268. Advanced Member
  5269. Nulli Secunda
  5270. PipPipPip
  5271. 346 posts
  5272.  
  5273. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  5274. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5275.  
  5276. Posted Today, 12:35 PM
  5277.  
  5278. Well this thread's done now.
  5279.  
  5280. + - 0
  5281.  
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  5285.  
  5286. #169 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #169] Volarus II
  5287.  
  5288. Advanced Member
  5289. Nulli Secunda
  5290. PipPipPip
  5291. 35 posts
  5292.  
  5293. LocationEurope - Vienna
  5294. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  5295. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5296.  
  5297. Posted Today, 12:52 PM
  5298.  
  5299. 1) Remove the ability of big coalutions to project their force (done)
  5300.  
  5301. 2) Make it harder to defend large Sov space (planned)
  5302.  
  5303. 3) Don't give the actual Sov holders any relevant benefits from their Sov under the new circumstances (planned)
  5304.  
  5305. 4) Implement additional benefits from holding Sov (maybe later)
  5306.  
  5307.  
  5308.  
  5309. I don't like it, but in a weird way it makes perfect sense.
  5310.  
  5311. + - 0
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  5313. Eve_Volarus.png
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  5318.  
  5319. #170 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #170] WNxWolfy
  5320.  
  5321. Member
  5322. Nulli Secunda
  5323. PipPip
  5324. 29 posts
  5325.  
  5326. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  5327. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5328.  
  5329. Posted Today, 01:28 PM
  5330.  
  5331. Volarus II, on 05 Mar 2015 - 1:52 PM, said:
  5332.  
  5333. 1) Remove the ability of big coalutions to project their force (done)
  5334.  
  5335. 2) Make it harder to defend large Sov space (planned)
  5336.  
  5337. 3) Don't give the actual Sov holders any relevant benefits from their Sov under the new circumstances (planned)
  5338.  
  5339. 4) Implement additional benefits from holding Sov (maybe later)
  5340.  
  5341.  
  5342.  
  5343. I don't like it, but in a weird way it makes perfect sense.
  5344.  
  5345. The big problem is that all we're getting is the stick, and the carrot is not even in sight yet
  5346.  
  5347. + - 0
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  5352.  
  5353. #171 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #171] Ancient Evils
  5354.  
  5355. Newbie
  5356. Nulli Secunda
  5357. Pip
  5358. 6 posts
  5359.  
  5360. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  5361. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5362.  
  5363. Posted Today, 01:32 PM
  5364.  
  5365. Ok, lots of talk about this is "its shit" and how it effects us, however, all this talk is, subjective. I will try to be as objective as possible.
  5366.  
  5367.  
  5368.  
  5369. First thing is the matter of sov being worth while having. This is very subjective and is from the mind set of null players within a reference of the EXISTING sov model aka large space, SRP costs of sov etc etc. But imagine for a sec you are a lowsec dweller or hs care-bare. The thought of begin able to rat sanctums, moon mine or explore sites that pay out more then 20k isk is in fact worth having. Yes there is a cost to holding and defending that, but this system is trying™ to change how sov works completely and WHO owns it and HOW much, so the comparing costs between the old and new model isn't going to work.
  5370.  
  5371.  
  5372.  
  5373. Secondly, these changes are targeted specifically at LARGE alliances and coalitions. Quite frankly, CCP wants coalitions gone, and this sov change will pretty much kill them, as they will serve very little purpose after the change. CCP does not want rental empires at all, they don't want alliances owning multiple regions. As a result any change they make to sov with these goals in mind will HURT us. Whatever they do to sov will make us unhappy as long as it is set up to accomplish the goals of removing large alliances/coalitions holding larges amounts of space barring entry to smaller entities.
  5374.  
  5375.  
  5376.  
  5377. Now, before Jean Leaner and others bring down the Flames or wrath on my head. I am not saying i agree with the changes. I agree with the N+1 issue that i think the new mechanic with create as well as groups trolling by resetting space, just because it can. However, i am sure that the goals above are true for ccp, and that this new system suits THEIR (business) needs, not ours. THIS IS GOING to happen. Some will argue that it wont help CCP business needs as xxx number will quit. But the truth is, a lot wont quit. They will bitch until they pass out, and they be force to suck it up and live in the new sov. Cpp is counting on that and the new game play to brign in new blood to the game.
  5378.  
  5379.  
  5380.  
  5381. Again, i am not saying i agree. But i am more of a pragmatist, and i am sure that whatever changes they make to the new system will still follow the clear goals they have shown here. So, i am more interested in talking about HOW we are going to survive and what we could do to function in this new world, because whether we like it or not. This is happening . I have a few ideas, and i am sure some of you do to. And i am fairly sure HC have discussed this and are developing a plan that is best for s2n continual survival. So what do you think we could do ?
  5382.  
  5383. + - 0
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  5388.  
  5389. #172 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #172] Rise Altol
  5390.  
  5391. Advanced Member
  5392. Nulli Secunda
  5393. PipPipPip
  5394. 78 posts
  5395.  
  5396. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  5397. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5398.  
  5399. Posted Today, 01:59 PM
  5400.  
  5401. Ancient Evils, on 05 Mar 2015 - 2:32 PM, said:
  5402.  
  5403. Ok, lots of talk about this is "its shit" and how it effects us, however, all this talk is, subjective. I will try to be as objective as possible.
  5404.  
  5405.  
  5406.  
  5407. First thing is the matter of sov being worth while having. This is very subjective and is from the mind set of null players within a reference of the EXISTING sov model aka large space, SRP costs of sov etc etc. But imagine for a sec you are a lowsec dweller or hs care-bare. The thought of begin able to rat sanctums, moon mine or explore sites that pay out more then 20k isk is in fact worth having. Yes there is a cost to holding and defending that, but this system is trying™ to change how sov works completely and WHO owns it and HOW much, so the comparing costs between the old and new model isn't going to work.
  5408.  
  5409.  
  5410.  
  5411.  
  5412.  
  5413. This is just plain and simple wrong. I earn way more doing incursions and even more doing level 4 lowsec missions. I did both and I can safely say that there is no risk in both of the activities. Why do you think so many 0.0 people have alts in high, low or in wormhole space ?
  5414.  
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  5420.  
  5421. Ancient Evils, on 05 Mar 2015 - 2:32 PM, said:
  5422.  
  5423.  
  5424.  
  5425. Secondly, these changes are targeted specifically at LARGE alliances and coalitions. Quite frankly, CCP wants coalitions gone, and this sov change will pretty much kill them, as they will serve very little purpose after the change. CCP does not want rental empires at all, they don't want alliances owning multiple regions.
  5426.  
  5427.  
  5428.  
  5429. Fozzie : Okay guys lets break up the nullsec coalitions and make n+1 so important that they really have no other choice but to stay togeather if they want to compete with a other coalitions. WUHU ...
  5430.  
  5431.  
  5432.  
  5433. All in all this is going to be the last thing I will post in this thread. However I would like ot hear HC thoughts on this or maybe thoughts of our beloved csm member.
  5434.  
  5435. + - 0
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  5442.  
  5443. #173 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #173] Ancient Evils
  5444.  
  5445. Newbie
  5446. Nulli Secunda
  5447. Pip
  5448. 6 posts
  5449.  
  5450. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  5451. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5452.  
  5453. Posted Today, 02:01 PM
  5454.  
  5455. as i said, i am not saying i agree with everything. but i am 1000% sure if we leave all our space SOMEONE will fill it, so its worth something to someone.
  5456.  
  5457. I am also sure in my assessment of the goals of this change, and like it or not, i think it is going to happen in some form or another.
  5458.  
  5459. + - 0
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  5464.  
  5465. #174 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #174] Gorga
  5466.  
  5467. Advanced Member
  5468. Administrators
  5469. 226 posts
  5470.  
  5471. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  5472. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5473.  
  5474. Posted Today, 05:05 PM
  5475.  
  5476. (This won't kill coalitions, just incase you were wondering -- N+1 is still a thing in this)
  5477.  
  5478. + - 0
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  5483.  
  5484. #175 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #175] Lord Haur
  5485.  
  5486. Advanced Member
  5487. Nulli Secunda
  5488. PipPipPip
  5489. 81 posts
  5490.  
  5491. LocationON A BOAT MOTHERFUCKER
  5492. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  5493. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5494.  
  5495. Posted Today, 05:08 PM
  5496.  
  5497. Hey, if we're moving to NPC Null and doing pirate missions, my vote is for Stain.
  5498.  
  5499.  
  5500.  
  5501. (It's not because I have a char with +9.0 to True Power, honest).
  5502.  
  5503. + - 0
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  5508.  
  5509. #176 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #176] Ancient Evils
  5510.  
  5511. Newbie
  5512. Nulli Secunda
  5513. Pip
  5514. 6 posts
  5515.  
  5516. Corporation Name:Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
  5517. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5518.  
  5519. Posted Today, 05:21 PM
  5520.  
  5521. Gorga, on 05 Mar 2015 - 6:05 PM, said:
  5522.  
  5523. (This won't kill coalitions, just incase you were wondering -- N+1 is still a thing in this)
  5524.  
  5525.  
  5526.  
  5527. I think you are right, but i think ccp is trying...but i agree. This does lend its self to n+1. Which just means, as usual CCP will half botch things, and defeat even its own goals. In the end what they are trying to do is open null up, by making us shrink. Whether it works is another matter. If they put the system in as it is then it will be N+1 and sov warfare will stink.
  5528.  
  5529. + - 0
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  5534.  
  5535. #177 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #177] Shonion
  5536.  
  5537. Advanced Member
  5538. Nulli Secunda
  5539. PipPipPip
  5540. 95 posts
  5541.  
  5542. Corporation Name:FREE GATES
  5543. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5544.  
  5545. Posted Today, 05:31 PM
  5546.  
  5547. Fozzie to Riotgames in June. *hype*
  5548.  
  5549. + - 1
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  5554.  
  5555. #178 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #178] Mean Hunter
  5556.  
  5557. Member
  5558. Nulli Secunda
  5559. PipPip
  5560. 13 posts
  5561.  
  5562. LocationIasi - Romania
  5563. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  5564. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5565.  
  5566. Posted Today, 05:51 PM
  5567.  
  5568. I don't think the new changes for the sov will be implemented as they are in the current form or alot of ppl will exodus in the Null NPC Space or focus their attention to WH and FW.
  5569.  
  5570. In fact I'm more interested to hear oppinions and ideas related to the SOV Changes, from the ppl that we votet as CSM .
  5571.  
  5572.  
  5573.  
  5574. Please guys don't be shy and spill it out or the cat got your tongue?!
  5575.  
  5576. + - 0
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  5581.  
  5582. #179 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #179] Mangone
  5583.  
  5584. Newbie
  5585. Nulli Secunda
  5586. Pip
  5587. 6 posts
  5588.  
  5589. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  5590. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5591.  
  5592. Posted Today, 06:18 PM
  5593.  
  5594. Rise Altol, on 05 Mar 2015 - 2:59 PM, said:
  5595.  
  5596. This is just plain and simple wrong. I earn way more doing incursions and even more doing level 4 lowsec missions. I did both and I can safely say that there is no risk in both of the activities. Why do you think so many 0.0 people have alts in high, low or in wormhole space ?
  5597.  
  5598.  
  5599.  
  5600.  
  5601.  
  5602.  
  5603.  
  5604. Theres noway to make more isk with incursions or hisec missions than farming anoms. You can make around 100mil/hr with incursions however the first hour you make 0isk because forming incursion fleet takes time. And after hour few ppl always drops fleet and then it can take another half hour to find replacements in fleet so you might end up making 100mil/2,5hr. You also cant do incursions with your own pace which is the important part here doing them solo at your own pace. Like dockup and go eat and come back and continue farming. With incursions you need again wait to get in fleet thats actually running and dont put you in waitlist. Atm i make 140mil/hour farming anoms at my own pace. Then theres escalations just did one and got 800mil loots. You dont get that from incursions or missions.
  5605.  
  5606.  
  5607.  
  5608. Just saying incursions and hisec missions are shit. If you want isk by shooting red crosses. Farming anoms and running escalations in sov null is the thing.
  5609.  
  5610.  
  5611.  
  5612. However farming fw missions at high tier can get you more isk than anoms or escalations. Back when i was in fw i made 18bil in 2 weeks grinding fw missions while spending few hours on it daily..
  5613.  
  5614. + - 0
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  5619.  
  5620. #180 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #180] Gilbaron
  5621.  
  5622. Advanced Member
  5623. Nulli Secunda
  5624. PipPipPip
  5625. 182 posts
  5626.  
  5627. Corporation Name:Free-Space-Ranger
  5628. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5629.  
  5630. Posted Today, 06:37 PM
  5631.  
  5632. you need to add all that sovgrinding and defense fleets into your calculations for nullsec isk/hr
  5633.  
  5634. + - 0
  5635.  
  5636. 62w7ubx.giff0bd62abc905f669ff9e32ba4f02dc29.png
  5637.  
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  5640. Report
  5641.  
  5642. Xiru Keikira
  5643.  
  5644. Advanced Member
  5645. Nulli Secunda
  5646. PipPipPip
  5647. 107 posts
  5648.  
  5649. LocationBible Belt, USA
  5650. Corporation Name:Shiva
  5651. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5652.  
  5653. Posted Today, 06:37 PM
  5654. Merc Secunda
  5655.  
  5656.  
  5657. Just sayin..
  5658.  
  5659. + - 1
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  5661. VuzFiJu.gif
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  5666.  
  5667. #182 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #182] Jean Leaner
  5668.  
  5669. Is better than you
  5670. Administrators
  5671. 440 posts
  5672.  
  5673. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  5674. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5675.  
  5676. Posted Today, 06:55 PM
  5677.  
  5678. Mangone, on 05 Mar 2015 - 7:18 PM, said:
  5679.  
  5680. Theres noway to make more isk with incursions or hisec missions than farming anoms. You can make around 100mil/hr with incursions however the first hour you make 0isk because forming incursion fleet takes time. And after hour few ppl always drops fleet and then it can take another half hour to find replacements in fleet so you might end up making 100mil/2,5hr. You also cant do incursions with your own pace which is the important part here doing them solo at your own pace. Like dockup and go eat and come back and continue farming. With incursions you need again wait to get in fleet thats actually running and dont put you in waitlist. Atm i make 140mil/hour farming anoms at my own pace. Then theres escalations just did one and got 800mil loots. You dont get that from incursions or missions.
  5681.  
  5682.  
  5683.  
  5684. Just saying incursions and hisec missions are shit. If you want isk by shooting red crosses. Farming anoms and running escalations in sov null is the thing.
  5685.  
  5686.  
  5687.  
  5688. However farming fw missions at high tier can get you more isk than anoms or escalations. Back when i was in fw i made 18bil in 2 weeks grinding fw missions while spending few hours on it daily..
  5689.  
  5690.  
  5691.  
  5692.  
  5693.  
  5694. Just how ignorant are you? Incursion HQ's in HIGHSEC are 250m/h. Thats more than you will ever make farming anomalies. Period.
  5695.  
  5696. + - 0
  5697.  
  5698. tFB6CyV.gif
  5699.  
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  5701. MultiQuote
  5702. Report
  5703.  
  5704. #183 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #183] Mangone
  5705.  
  5706. Newbie
  5707. Nulli Secunda
  5708. Pip
  5709. 6 posts
  5710.  
  5711. Corporation Name:Infinite Point
  5712. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5713.  
  5714. Posted Today, 07:13 PM
  5715.  
  5716. Jean Leaner, on 05 Mar 2015 - 7:55 PM, said:
  5717.  
  5718. Just how ignorant are you? Incursion HQ's in HIGHSEC are 250m/h. Thats more than you will ever make farming anomalies. Period.
  5719.  
  5720.  
  5721.  
  5722. There arent HQ fleets running 24/7. Also theres that hour forming time that makes it more like 125mil/hour taken into account that you might not have more than 2 hrs to spend your time on pve. Atleast i rarely have more time to spend on non stop pve. Unless you get lucky and get in running HQ fleet straight. But still there was the important part of doing them solo at your own pace.
  5723.  
  5724.  
  5725.  
  5726. Anyway i do make way more isk farming anoms than in hisec incursions..
  5727.  
  5728. + - 0
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  5732. Report
  5733.  
  5734. #184 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #184] Mad Crafter
  5735.  
  5736. Advanced Member
  5737. Nulli Secunda
  5738. PipPipPip
  5739. 42 posts
  5740.  
  5741. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  5742. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5743.  
  5744. Posted Today, 07:28 PM
  5745.  
  5746. Living in sov space is worth something, or else we wouldn't have close to 10,000 renters PAYING US to live their. That's a lot of people who think giving up a significant amount of money to live in null sec is a good idea. Theirs got to be something they want.
  5747.  
  5748. + - 0
  5749.  
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  5753.  
  5754. #185 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #185] Xiru Keikira
  5755.  
  5756. Advanced Member
  5757. Nulli Secunda
  5758. PipPipPip
  5759. 107 posts
  5760.  
  5761. LocationBible Belt, USA
  5762. Corporation Name:Shiva
  5763. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5764.  
  5765. Posted Today, 07:35 PM
  5766.  
  5767. Mangone, on 05 Mar 2015 - 8:13 PM, said:
  5768.  
  5769. There arent HQ fleets running 24/7. Also theres that hour forming time that makes it more like 125mil/hour taken into account that you might not have more than 2 hrs to spend your time on pve. Atleast i rarely have more time to spend on non stop pve. Unless you get lucky and get in running HQ fleet straight. But still there was the important part of doing them solo at your own pace.
  5770.  
  5771. Anyway i do make way more isk farming anoms than in hisec incursions..
  5772.  
  5773. Hello You seem ignorant of the fact that 98% of ISN leader ship is in shiva and a fair number of TVP leadership and officers are spread among other corps (and this is just of who I am aware of there may be more from other communities) I can 100% with out a doubt comfirm that there is an HQ fleet running nearly 24/7 fuck boy. Or at least one HQ running in EU and US timezones INFACT as long as some fucker doesnt rage pop the MOM because they suck at incursions theres up theres usually at least 3 HQ fleets running in prime timezones(sorry AUTZ sucks for numbers but there is at least a VG or AS fleet eunnign which is usually 100mil or 175mil an hour respectively)
  5774.  
  5775. This also doesnt include the fact that there are smaller groups that are also running VGs and AS fleets WHILE the HQ fleets are running as as long as theres no fucking drama it takes literally no time at all to log in an incursion alt (logi 5 scimi alt is cheap and easy to train and easy to fly) and checking fucking incursion community form up channels -- x up with a non fucking mongoloid fit (they even have them in the MOTDs for you) and within minutes you can be in a fleet. I have never waited longer than 15mins in a waitlist and wven if one community has a waitlist you can tab over to a different channel and they might be ready for you immediately. Which I never understood why people dont do its basically free isk in the safest fucking space and if you arent brain dead dont lose anything.
  5776.  
  5777. "BUT MUH ANOMS GIB MORE ISK" bullshit. The isk/hr is always better in incursions as EVE currently stands because :CCP: dont get me wrong NULL SHOULD be worth more... but its not..
  5778.  
  5779. + - 0
  5780.  
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  5786.  
  5787. #186 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #186] Sludgeface
  5788.  
  5789. Advanced Member
  5790. Nulli Secunda
  5791. PipPipPip
  5792. 96 posts
  5793.  
  5794. Corporation Name:Common Sense Ltd
  5795. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5796.  
  5797. Posted Today, 07:49 PM
  5798.  
  5799. Mangone, on 05 Mar 2015 - 8:13 PM, said:
  5800.  
  5801. There arent HQ fleets running 24/7.
  5802.  
  5803.  
  5804.  
  5805. Nulli, if anyone, could be running HQs 23/7 if they actually wanted to.
  5806.  
  5807. + - 0
  5808.  
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  5814.  
  5815. #187 [Upcoming Sov Changes: post #187] Gilbaron
  5816.  
  5817. Advanced Member
  5818. Nulli Secunda
  5819. PipPipPip
  5820. 182 posts
  5821.  
  5822. Corporation Name:Free-Space-Ranger
  5823. Alliance Name:Nulli Secunda
  5824.  
  5825. Posted Today, 07:55 PM
  5826.  
  5827. Mad Crafter, on 05 Mar 2015 - 8:28 PM, said:
  5828.  
  5829. Living in sov space is worth something, or else we wouldn't have close to 10,000 renters PAYING US to live their. That's a lot of people who think giving up a significant amount of money to live in null sec is a good idea. Theirs got to be something they want.
  5830.  
  5831.  
  5832.  
  5833.  
  5834.  
  5835. mining is shit
  5836.  
  5837. industry is shit
  5838.  
  5839. beltratting is shit
  5840.  
  5841. anoms are shit
  5842.  
  5843. PI is okay
  5844.  
  5845. exploration is good, but doesn't require sov
  5846.  
  5847.  
  5848.  
  5849. it's a huge amount of idealism that draws carebears to nullsec. fights are what the pvp dudes are coming for. and the only thing that's actually worth fighting for is moons and renters.
  5850.  
  5851. + - 1
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