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Joe Rogan David Grusch Interview Transcription on 2023-11-21

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  1. Joe Rogan David Grusch Interview Transcription on 2023-11-21
  2. ============================================================
  3. 00:00:13 JR
  4. How are you?
  5. 00:00:13 DG
  6. Man, hey, good, good.
  7. 00:00:14 JR
  8. Thanks for coming.
  9. 00:00:15 JR
  10. Here. Appreciate it.
  11. 00:00:16 DG
  12. Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's a pleasure you've been.
  13. 00:00:19 JR
  14. On a whirlwind. Sort of.
  15. 00:00:21 JR
  16. Four, I guess we should start from the beginning. Yeah. So, first of all, lay out to people what your job was with the military and how this all started for you.
  17. 00:00:34 DG
  18. Yeah. Yeah. So I was a Intel officer in the Air Force for 14 years, 7 active, 7 reserve. Then I kind of had, like, a parallel track in the civilian Intel world when I became a reservist. And ultimately I got brought back in in civil service in a government way at the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency.
  19. 00:00:56 DG
  20. Couple of years ago, at a senior level, so I was a major in the Air Force and a GS15 at NGA, which is like a full bird Colonel equivalent civilian employee. You know, I'm very humbled that I was able to kind of get that kind of job. But my career mostly, I didn't even really think about this topic.
  21. 00:01:17 DG
  22. UFO's were not on my radar. I wasn't really a believer. I was agnostic about it.
  23. 00:01:22 DG
  24. Most of my career I did a lot of you know, behind the door Special Access program, technical type activities. I was kind of a space intelligence expert, a cyber Intel expert.
  25. 00:01:37 DG
  26. Like I said, this was not on my radar at all, you know, like I would joke with my buddies cause I used to handle the presidential daily brief for the national CONNAISSANCE office director in my my military capacity as a reservist, and I was well clear to hundreds and hundreds of compartment programs. And, you know, the joke was like, when are we going to get the read?
  27. 00:01:56 DG
  28. On for the crazy ****.
  29. 00:01:58 DG
  30. And that never happens and and.
  31. 00:02:02 DG
  32. I do remember the the day that I really.
  33. 00:02:06 DG
  34. Can remember that I was like, huh, what's with this UFO stuff? I was briefing a senior person.
  35. 00:02:13 DG
  36. At the CIA into a couple 100 special access programs. So I was at the headquarters at the agency. And, you know, after the indoctrination I was giving to the senior person.
  37. 00:02:24 DG
  38. The person who worked with Lou Elizondo previously was like, yeah, have Dave. Have you ever heard of this guy, Lou Elizondo? He's running some UFO program at the Pentagon.
  39. 00:02:35 DG
  40. And we all think he's crazy. And I'm like I I don't know who this guy you Elizondo is and I don't know of any kind of UFO program. So that sounds nuts to me.
  41. 00:02:46 DG
  42. But lo and behold, and that was like early 2017, and Lo and Behold's in December 2017, that New York Times article came up with the that named the a tip program in the ASAP program. So advanced aerospace weapons systems application program.
  43. 00:03:03 DG
  44. And advanced aerospace Threat Identification program, being the other acronym and I was like, holy ****. Wait, that's that guy, Lou Elizondo, that I heard about? Ah, you know what? I think I have heard of ASAP when I was a Lieutenant, I used to read these reports.
  45. 00:03:18 DG
  46. From the Defense Intelligence Agency on black holes and stuff. And I was like ohh, that's like stupid wise the DIA looking in the black holes. Time warps it just didn't make any sense to me back in like 08/09 when I was Lieutenant.
  47. 00:03:32 DG
  48. And all of a sudden, I'm like, well, maybe there's something to this UFO thing. I'm not saying I was like a believer either way on the subject. But this is this was a topic of concern, apparently for the Pentagon and in 2018.
  49. 00:03:46 DG
  50. I started doing kind of my what I call my open source literature review, like me spin myself up on this topic, watching Chris Mellon and Lou Elizondo, Leslie King. All these people talk about the subjects and then, you know, just trying to understand. So what is this with UFO's? Has this been going on for a while? The answer is yes, like Foo Fighters, sightings of weird stuff in antiquity.
  51. 00:04:08 DG
  52. Et cetera, which you know we can get into later, but.
  53. 00:04:11 DG
  54. And so early 2019 comes along, and my boss at the National Reconnaissance Office and kind of my Air Force major capacity forwarded me an e-mail from the what became a.
  55. 00:04:24 DG
  56. Stood up in like, I guess it was 2018, which was the unidentified while was Ariel. Now, anonymous, anonymous Philomena task Force AP Task force. So the AP Task force director sent my boss an e-mail saying, hey, we're looking for a Rep.
  57. 00:04:38 DG
  58. To the task force and as like any good officer, I was like, well, I'll put it on my performance report. Hey, I was on a task force and you know, that would look good. And I being well cleared and also a bachelors degree in physics masters in intelligence analysis. I'm like, you know what? I'll figure out what the **** is. It's either going to be weather ****.
  59. 00:04:58 DG
  60. Maybe it's an adversarial program, maybe it's like a US program people are misidentifying on rare occasions, so **** it. I'll I'll go see where the data takes me and you know, early 2019 or so I joined the AP Task force.
  61. 00:05:16 DG
  62. And then.
  63. 00:05:19 DG
  64. I started, you know, interviewing pilots, flag officers, you know, General Officer, equivalent Type Navy folks. And you know, they were seeing some really crazy **** and like a, you know, event that I talked about previously publicly in a YouTube video on the Yes theory channel. You know, there was this one.
  65. 00:05:39 DG
  66. 30 year Senior Navy officer that you know he was going to work sober. No predisposition for fantasy. All that kind of stuff. Cause I interviewed individual for a couple hours and he saw this.
  67. 00:05:51 DG
  68. You know, crazy triangle hover over his car, going to work at a certain naval facility and it, like, blew his mind. He was serious.
  69. 00:06:01 DG
  70. The paint on his car turned Milky White after the incident, so that's to me that sounds like ionizing radiation. So like ultraviolet, just like how you're.
  71. 00:06:10 DG
  72. Your headlights get all foggy overtime if you park your car out in the sun. Same.
  73. 00:06:16 DG
  74. Phenomenon just happened, you know, within 24 hour period and I'm.
  75. 00:06:19 DG
  76. Like, whoa, if this is true and the the the oral testimony and you know, crazy radar data that I saw when I was on the task force, you know, stuff making turns, it didn't make any sense. Well, holy ****. What is this stuff?
  77. 00:06:33 JR
  78. Then this anomaly with his paint.
  79. 00:06:36 JR
  80. Was is this documented? Is it photographs or yeah.
  81. 00:06:39 DG
  82. Yes, I saw photographs it.
  83. 00:06:40 DG
  84. Was documented, yeah.
  85. 00:06:41 JR
  86. And what is there a conventional explanation?
  87. 00:06:46 DG
  88. I mean, based on what he described, something to rapidly ionize his paint like that within a a day. I don't. I can't think of anything off the top of my head in terms of some conventional aerospace technology. And and this was a certain facility in the continental US this is not overseas. So it's not like our.
  89. 00:07:06 DG
  90. Have a serious flying some spooky thing in US airspace.
  91. 00:07:11 JR
  92. So this thing hovered over his car. For how long?
  93. 00:07:15 DG
  94. Couple minutes while he was traveling at about 60 miles an hour, so it was pacing.
  95. 00:07:20 JR
  96. How far away from his vehicle?
  97. 00:07:25 DG
  98. It's probably a couple 100 feet in altitude. It was less than 1000 feet, which is also bad because from an airspace perspective, pilots would know this. Anything under 1000 feet no, unless you get special clearance and you only do that over controlled airspace like a military test ranges right? People fly low and that kind of thing.
  99. 00:07:43 JR
  100. So is is.
  101. 00:07:43 JR
  102. He on what kind of a highway is he?
  103. 00:07:45 DG
  104. On a conventional civilian highway.
  105. 00:07:48 JR
  106. Civilian. So anyone could have been on it? Yes. And it just happened to be this guy. Mm-hmm. Did he have any other experiences with this thing?
  107. 00:07:57 DG
  108. No, this was.
  109. 00:07:58 DG
  110. This was like a once in a lifetime thing, he.
  111. 00:08:02 DG
  112. Kept it to himself for a couple of years, but then he, as the task force came out. I I know what he's OK. That individual still on active duty? Yeah.
  113. 00:08:07 JR
  114. So what was his name?
  115. 00:08:11 JR
  116. Let's call him Bob. Did anybody say to him? Hey, Bob, what the **** happened to your car?
  117. 00:08:16 DG
  118. You know that's a good question. I don't remember if people asked him about his car.
  119. 00:08:20 DG
  120. So he took pride in his car, so it actually was probably more upsetting to him personally because it was like a Toyota or something.
  121. 00:08:24 JR
  122. What kind of car was?
  123. 00:08:27 JR
  124. So OK, yeah, so all of a sudden, his Toyota's ******, OK.
  125. 00:08:31 JR
  126. And so did he have?
  127. 00:08:34 JR
  128. To report this, is this something that?
  129. 00:08:37 DG
  130. He did not.
  131. 00:08:38 DG
  132. Report it to my knowledge, to anybody, it wasn't until he reported it to us about five years later that it it happened.
  133. 00:08:45 JR
  134. So are those these kind of experiences, something that a lot of these pilots are embarrassed about discussing or have apprehension about discussing because they could be ridiculed?
  135. 00:08:57 DG
  136. Mm-hmm. Yeah. A lot of people that are on flight status, they don't wanna be sent to the site. Right. You know, there's a whole aerospace Physiology kind of empire in the.
  137. 00:09:04 DG
  138. Terry, that and you know if you're an operator or you know a guy missile missile key Turner you're on what they call a personal reliability program you're taking like you know Tylenol you got to report it if you have a fever you got to report it because you're you know in control nuclear weapons when you're on duty so yeah.
  139. 00:09:22 JR
  140. Right. And so this idea of being predisposed to fantasy, that's also something that they.
  141. 00:09:30 JR
  142. Sort of talk to these people about or try to get a gauge of, yeah.
  143. 00:09:35 DG
  144. Yeah, these are people.
  145. 00:09:35 DG
  146. That are very sober minded, I mean this individual was early in the morning going to work not under the influence of anything and that person had a, you know, similar clearances mine no TSC I so you know we've gone through top secret.
  147. 00:09:48 JR
  148. Yes. What was that?
  149. 00:09:50 DG
  150. You know sensitive Department of Information clearance and you know, just like myself, I've been through multiple polygraphs in my career.
  151. 00:09:57 DG
  152. So did this individual. So does he have any?
  153. 00:10:01 JR
  154. Idea or any theories about why this thing was following him?
  155. 00:10:06 DG
  156. No, that's what freaked him out the most. Cause he didn't have any experience in his life like this. It, like, totally blew his mind when he looked out his moonroof and then looked out the side of his car door and saw this 300 foot triangle. It was like Pre Dawn Sky, but it was darker than the pre dawn.
  157. 00:10:25 DG
  158. This guy and I had this like.
  159. 00:10:27 DG
  160. Plasma edges like it was like purplish glowing edges, and these three lights that had like these omnidirectional like almost like pool lights. You know how there's you can't really tell where.
  161. 00:10:38 DG
  162. The light source is.
  163. 00:10:40 DG
  164. And it was totally trippy. And that, and that's just one example of many anecdotal with some evidence in a pilot story.
  165. 00:10:46 DG
  166. And that's what made me dig deeper and I started, you know, cultivating my network like.
  167. 00:10:54 DG
  168. Has the government studied this before? This wasn't just ASAP and a tip and blue book and all.
  169. 00:10:58 DG
  170. This **** in the past right there.
  171. 00:11:00 DG
  172. This seems serious, so like certainly the government has looked at this and, you know, I went to search for that program and that's what ended up whistleblowing.
  173. 00:11:07 DG
  174. On right. So when?
  175. 00:11:09 JR
  176. You what was? How did you initially discover this program and like, what was your first encounter with the information?
  177. 00:11:17 DG
  178. A very senior individual.
  179. 00:11:20 DG
  180. In the Intel community came to me.
  181. 00:11:23 DG
  182. Me when I guess I was asking a lot of questions because I'm a very inquisitive guy and it was like, hey we, I need to introduce you to somebody. You know, he listed that certain persons academic credentials which were beyond reproach, you know, PhD level education clearance.
  183. 00:11:41 DG
  184. Resume was insane. I'm like, well, OK, sure, I'll. I'll talk to this person. And and I ended up meeting that person in a, you know, a top secret facility. And, you know, he started the discussing like, hey there.
  185. 00:11:54 DG
  186. Was a program.
  187. 00:11:56 DG
  188. I was on it and you know, we were reverse engineering crash material that we've recovered over the decades, you know, and he's like, I'm not joking, you know? And you know, you know what we're telling you because you're you have, you guys have to report to the Deputy Secretary of Defense and Congress on this matter. Right. And we were.
  189. 00:12:15 DG
  190. We were actively briefing like Secretary Esper Deputy Secretary Norquist. You know, other cabinet level folks, right? And like there's a there's, you know, there must be there's an oversight issue because you're the AP task force. You should.
  191. 00:12:32 DG
  192. Be read into this stuff because, like, why spend the taxpayers, you know, dollars looking at stuff that we already have data on, right? So that's and that's spooked to me. And that was like fall of 2019. And, you know, I don't take a guy's word for it. I'm like, you know what, myself and my trusted colleagues that had a lot of lot of special.
  193. 00:12:54 DG
  194. Accesses like me, you know, we cultivated our network, and we ultimately interviewed about 40 people or so, all the way up to multi * general.
  195. 00:13:05 DG
  196. Directors of agencies mid level guys that literally touched it worked inside of it all the the stuff they brought Intel reports for me to look at, you know documents and and a lot of that I could cross that verify with other oral sources at my high level colleagues are I talked to.
  197. 00:13:27 DG
  198. And you know it. It checked out especially.
  199. 00:13:30 DG
  200. I had enough information on and I know who specifically to ask like, hey. Well, I went right into this. Like I'm on the AP task force and we went to those, I'll call them gatekeepers, for the lack of a better term. And they basically said, **** you to me and my colleagues.
  201. 00:13:48 JR
  202. Hmm, so why were?
  203. 00:13:50 JR
  204. These other people willing to discuss this with you.
  205. 00:13:53 DG
  206. Well, they determined I didn't need to know I was already.
  207. 00:13:58 DG
  208. Cleared at such a high level handling presidential material and everything, it's like Dave needs to know and they felt that coming to us. It was a form of a protected disclosure. They felt that they weren't really violating anything because, you know, we were the.
  209. 00:14:16 DG
  210. I'll call it the investigatory body for the Department of Defense and the intelligence community and and Congress at the time. And they, you know, you are allowed to.
  211. 00:14:27 DG
  212. You know, disclosed to a government official in an official capacity, and I, you know, did that. And of course I protected those people and and do know I took those people a lot of them and and they brought them to the intelligence community Inspector General when I filed my complaint because I don't want people to, you know, hear it from a second hand source. You know people called here say whatever.
  213. 00:14:47 DG
  214. Though I have some first hand knowledge, I eventually talk about someday. I'm trying to get it.
  215. 00:14:53 DG
  216. Through through security processes so they could hear it and hear the details like.
  217. 00:14:59 DG
  218. You know who? What, when, where, why? Where the **** is. Who's in control of it. What are the cover programs, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So and that's what deemed my my complaint credible and urgent in July.
  219. 00:15:13 DG
  220. 2022.
  221. 00:15:15 DG
  222. Which is a so that my complaint yes was about reprisal too. I filed that separately, eventually to the the Department of Defense Inspector General. That's an ongoing investigation, but my it was my congressional oversight.
  223. 00:15:28 DG
  224. UAP crash retrieval allegations that was deemed credible and urgent. It was sent to the Director of National Intelligence and then it was sent to the Congressional Intelligence committees.
  225. 00:15:39 DG
  226. Around that time, July of 2022, and I eventually went to Congress in December of 2022. And it's a crazy story why it took so long. It's ******* nuts. But I provided total about 11 1/2 to 12 hours of.
  227. 00:15:54 DG
  228. You know, classified testimony to the congressional staffers and their lawyers.
  229. 00:15:59 DG
  230. For both the house.
  231. 00:16:01 DG
  232. In the Senate and I I went, you know, full open kimono. I mean, I told them as much as I could within my.
  233. 00:16:07 DG
  234. Time slot if you will so so.
  235. 00:16:10 JR
  236. This is obviously very compartmentalized, where there's only a few people that know about this information and they're not allowed to discuss it with other people. When did this all start? I mean is.
  237. 00:16:23 JR
  238. This out of.
  239. 00:16:24 JR
  240. Roswell is it predate that like when? When did they first realized that there are things that cannot be explained?
  241. 00:16:32 JR
  242. It can't be explained through conventional means.
  243. 00:16:35 DG
  244. Yeah. I mean the program goes back a ways. The precise beginning of it can't talk about, but I did the security stuff. But I did talk about publicly the 1933 retrieval, and I did that tactically and I ran that through the security Approval Office because I wanted to show that.
  245. 00:16:56 DG
  246. This is much older and it's international. It's not like a US thing. I mean, the the stuff is landing or crashing around the world and unexpected countries have had this happen and that's why I picked that because I thought that was a interesting case. And then of course, the, you know, Pope Pius the 12th and the Vatican were involved back channeling it through the OSS.
  247. 00:17:18 DG
  248. Which became the CIA later to FDR, and that's how the US knew something weird happened in Italy during well right before World War 2. But so this is 33 was the first, like documented?
  249. 00:17:32 DG
  250. That is the.
  251. 00:17:33 DG
  252. Earliest one I can talk about, yeah.
  253. 00:17:35 JR
  254. There's something that predates that.
  255. 00:17:38 DG
  256. Right, you could infer that you could infer that. Yeah. So this 33, one you said was in Italy. Yeah. Magenta. So it's a I'm bad at geography. I think that's like the Lombardy region. It's like northern northwest Italy. And what's the story behind it?
  257. 00:17:53 DG
  258. So basically it it it looked like it crashed right? It the original shape most likely was like a lenticular disc like crafts, you know with like a two dinner plates. So like 2 dinner plates, you know, smushed together. Right. And there's like a, you know, like a bubble.
  259. 00:18:05 JR
  260. What does lenticular mean?
  261. 00:18:10 JR
  262. OK.
  263. 00:18:12 DG
  264. Top classic like. Yeah, like that. OK, but it looks like when it hits the edges broke off, so it became this like bell or acorn shaped thing. And there was nothing in it. It was like just an artifact. You know, there was no biological remnants, if you will.
  265. 00:18:12 JR
  266. The flying saucer saucer like.
  267. 00:18:32 DG
  268. So it's so funny because the Italians were.
  269. 00:18:36 DG
  270. So confused, they actually called up the Germans and they were.
  271. 00:18:40 DG
  272. Like is this.
  273. 00:18:40 DG
  274. One of you have Linda Vafa. Like. What the hell? Just crashed in northern Italy, Mussolini. And this is all publicly available information cause some Italian researchers found all these original documents that some people were sitting on for years in Italy.
  275. 00:18:56 DG
  276. You know, they put a gag order on the press, et cetera and and yeah, Mussolini asked the Germans to come down. And of course, the Germans came down and they were like, that is not ours. But let's look at it together so.
  277. 00:19:10 DG
  278. That's kind of perhaps a tertiary reason that kind of axis powers got together. I'm not saying that's like the reason, but I think the Italians and the Germans were so intrigued with what they found from, like, an artifact perspective. There was at least some scientific and military collaboration during the war, the details of which.
  279. 00:19:30 DG
  280. I I'm not. I'm not sure of, but I know people that know that specific event that are currently still Intel officers within this program.
  281. 00:19:39 DG
  282. In detail, but you know, yeah.
  283. 00:19:40 JR
  284. So was there witnesses to the crash or some sort of an understanding that something had crash landed and then they discovered it?
  285. 00:19:47 DG
  286. Yeah, I I forget the precise discovery. I I don't know if it was like a local police officers or local farmers found in the field, something like that. I I don't wanna misspeak.
  287. 00:19:59 DG
  288. I'm I assume some of the Italian researchers might have some fact witnesses that can orally say ohh yeah my my great grandfather found it or something like that, but I.
  289. 00:20:07 DG
  290. Don't remember up on my head.
  291. 00:20:08 JR
  292. What was the scale of this vehicle?
  293. 00:20:10 DG
  294. Ohh, it was probably like like 20 feet by 10 feet, something like that. Not super huge but kind.
  295. 00:20:16 JR
  296. Of big do they think that this was a drone? Do they think that this was occupied?
  297. 00:20:21 DG
  298. There was nothing in it, so if it if it was.
  299. 00:20:26 DG
  300. Piloted, if you will, by some sentience I mean your your guess is as good as.
  301. 00:20:30 DG
  302. Mine so.
  303. 00:20:32 JR
  304. So what happened to that vehicle?
  305. 00:20:35 DG
  306. So we knew where it was being stored at a a particular location after the crash, and then the military came in and we we grabbed it towards the end of the war, you know 19441945 because like I said, Pope Pius, the 12th already kind of.
  307. 00:20:53 DG
  308. Let's FDR know.
  309. 00:20:54 JR
  310. Why did?
  311. 00:20:55 JR
  312. Pope get cause it's in Italy.
  313. 00:20:55 DG
  314. Involved well, well. Interestingly enough, there's like a whole history of human intelligence prior to World War 2 and old money, the Vatican, the Italian mob, kind of the old country boys, did a lot of informal intelligence.
  315. 00:21:12 DG
  316. Election for the US and and there's probably some books you can read on it, but it's really interesting, you know, human intelligence collection wasn't really formalized until the Office Office of Strategic Services, though. s s, which became the CIA in 1947, you had.
  317. 00:21:31 DG
  318. You know Paul Mellon and all these other affluent guys of all these old money families that basically created the CIA. So that's probably the reason why.
  319. 00:21:40 JR
  320. So this thing that was recovered.
  321. 00:21:45 JR
  322. This was the.
  323. 00:21:46 JR
  324. First documented one that the United States had access to.
  325. 00:21:51 DG
  326. I can't get.
  327. 00:21:51 JR
  328. Into OK. If it was the first or not, but it was an early one. Very early. Yeah. So it's almost 100 years ago. Yes. And so they take this thing and then they bring it where?
  329. 00:22:02 DG
  330. Yeah, I can't. I can't get into those details now, no.
  331. 00:22:03 JR
  332. Yeah, can't get into that. OK, so they bring it somewhere in the United States and was the attempt to try to back engineer this thing was the attempt to try to understand what it was.
  333. 00:22:16 DG
  334. Yeah. I mean, first of it, obviously it's understanding the situation, right? What do we have our hands on and.
  335. 00:22:22 DG
  336. And like I've said in some other videos and stuff, you know, we took the Manhattan Project secrecy and overlaid it on this issue because that secrecy worked well for atomic bomb.
  337. 00:22:31 DG
  338. Developments and whatnot and and certainly this whole program in a nutshell, if I were to like summarize the 90 plus years of history, it is a reverse engineering program to garner some kind of insight and of course not a lot of the things that we've learned from it.
  339. 00:22:51 DG
  340. Like directly.
  341. 00:22:54 DG
  342. You know, ripped off the technology we found, but it has inspired other innovations that made its way into other US classified programs over the year for National Defense reasons, you know, and it's a myriad of different.
  343. 00:23:06 JR
  344. Things. So the UFO.
  345. 00:23:08 JR
  346. Folklore is that this is where fiber optics were discovered first.
  347. 00:23:13 DG
  348. Yeah, I'm not going to break the seal on anything we've discovered.
  349. 00:23:15 DG
  350. Or anything like that and.
  351. 00:23:18 JR
  352. Yeah, it's how, how limited are you and what you can discuss and what you can't discuss and why? Why do they let you discuss?
  353. 00:23:19 DG
  354. Place I can't go to.
  355. 00:23:20 DG
  356. Yeah, yeah.
  357. 00:23:25 DG
  358. Any of this. Yeah. So anything sensitive that I wanna say as it relates to like U.S. government activity, whether it be intelligence stuff, military stuff, et cetera, I have to submit it through what they call Dopson DoD office of Pre Publication and Security.
  359. 00:23:38 DG
  360. Review. That is something anybody who's been an Intel office or anybody with, like a clearance, has to submit that kind of stuff. Now, obviously, if you're writing a book about gardening, you don't have to. But if you're going to talk about anything military and intelligence related, you have to submit so.
  361. 00:23:55 DG
  362. It's kind of a catch 22 for this office, right? They're only looking at it from a security perspective. They're not vouching for it or anything like that. And that's like any author, right? They could write a a book about Navy seals and they're not vouching for the story. They're vouching that you didn't say any nasty code words. You didn't burn a specific.
  363. 00:24:15 DG
  364. Ongoing classified program and for them, I mean, I'm not in their Utah loop, but certainly it's a catch 22 for them where if they want to redact and they propose A redaction, they're like, hey Dave, you can't say these sentences, you can rewrite it and resubmit. You know, we can't necessarily tell you.
  365. 00:24:34 DG
  366. What agency said to redact it, but you're not allowed to say this.
  367. 00:24:40 DG
  368. They would be basically self certifying. There's a there there so.
  369. 00:24:44 DG
  370. In my opinion, probably the policy is like if it has to deal with the subject, we're not saying anything, we're not proposing any redactions as as long as he's not burning a conventional program, we kind of have to allow him to exercise his First Amendment rights. And so I think it's like a catch 22 for that office is kind of.
  371. 00:25:04 DG
  372. The long or the short of long.
  373. 00:25:06 JR
  374. Answer So so this is essentially one of the very early ones, 1933. How many crash retrieval incidents have there?
  375. 00:25:16 DG
  376. Been it is double digits. This specific numbers I do know, however I can't discuss that. I know it sounds like oh.
  377. 00:25:24 DG
  378. I'm being coy or whatever, but you know this show? Any other interviews I do right. You know, foreign intelligence services are watching.
  379. 00:25:33 DG
  380. And it's like, I'm not here to help Russia and China calibrate their intelligence collection. Like Ohh Dave said, it's this number we missed a couple ****. Let's put it out for.
  381. 00:25:44 DG
  382. The KGB, SVR and Gru are now going to hit the streets to try to figure out which ones they miss, so I'm I'm here to protect national security and I'm just trying to put all the general topics out there for public conversation to hold our government accountable. Really. So because I'm, I'm here as a fact witness.
  383. 00:26:04 DG
  384. Because we have a, you know, a constitutional oversight issue because this program.
  385. 00:26:11 DG
  386. Has not been.
  387. 00:26:13 DG
  388. You know, reported to Congress in the appropriate way, you know, and I can get into a senator. I talked to that has died recently, so I can.
  389. 00:26:23 DG
  390. You know, explained to you why I'm so sure. Besides what I read, which we can get into the what Intel port reports I read. I did get some stuff cleared.
  391. 00:26:34 DG
  392. So during my investigation, I'm like, you know what? I need to talk to somebody at the highest levels, right? So and this will give you an idea of the kind of people we talk to. And this is the only one I'm gonna talk about using their name because they died two years ago. So in spring 2021, I actually flew with a couple of colleagues of mine to Las Vegas.
  393. 00:26:55 DG
  394. And I met with Senator Harry Reid.
  395. 00:26:58 DG
  396. About nine months before he died, and of course he's a private citizen now and I wanted to brief him on.
  397. 00:27:04 DG
  398. The topic and I wanted to get his kind of thought leadership on.
  399. 00:27:08 DG
  400. It cause you.
  401. 00:27:08 DG
  402. Know he was a gang of 8 member, right? You.
  403. 00:27:10 DG
  404. Know which is.
  405. 00:27:10 DG
  406. The top most cleared senators and congressman. He was the Majority Leader, for God's sakes of the Senate, and I knew, you know, he helped sponsor the ASAP program that I mentioned and where they looked at skin.
  407. 00:27:24 DG
  408. Tucker Ranch and some other things.
  409. 00:27:26 DG
  410. And I wanted to understand like, what does Harry Reid actually know? Like why did he?
  411. 00:27:32 DG
  412. You know, give $21,000,000 to DIA and Bigelow Aerospace for this.
  413. 00:27:37 DG
  414. So I'm sitting there in Harry Reid's living room, you know, right next to him, with some other witnesses that were there with me and he straight up says he's like, yeah, I knew we had UFO material. I was denied access for decades. I tried to get access. And then he explained some of his.
  415. 00:27:57 DG
  416. Efforts during ASAP and I was like holy **** did the the former Majority Leader just say that he just confirmed this to me as well. You know, I was already talking to these amazing high level people, but I have Harry Reid literally saying yes, we have material and you know, he knew it was not.
  417. 00:28:16 JR
  418. Human did Harry Reid have personal experience with this?
  419. 00:28:20 DG
  420. I don't know if he's had any personal stuff in his.
  421. 00:28:22 JR
  422. Personal I mean, did he see it did?
  423. 00:28:22 DG
  424. My life.
  425. 00:28:24 JR
  426. Did witness.
  427. 00:28:24 DG
  428. He said in terms of seeing the material himself, he said he was denied access for years. Decades was his term and he actually told me on behalf of me, he was going. So he had like a weekly call with President Joe Biden at the time and he straight up said to me he was going to talk to.
  429. 00:28:47 DG
  430. President Biden about this issue. Literally.
  431. 00:28:51 DG
  432. And then what? He was telling me about ASAP.
  433. 00:28:57 DG
  434. I was like, holy ****, I have like 20 other people that told me this dude. So the real history. What ******* ASAP was because I think there's a lot of people out there that think they were looking at ghosts. Skinwalker ranch? Yes. They went to the ranch as a secondary and tertiary objective. But the real.
  435. 00:29:17 DG
  436. Reason. So like there's a document that came out a couple of years ago through FOIA from the Defense Intelligence Agency. There was this special access program request that Harry Reid, you might have seen this, I think, like George Knapp and Company have reported on the.
  437. 00:29:34 DG
  438. That he sent to the Deputy Secretary of Defense, William Lynn, and it was asking for one of the most serious saps you can ask for. What they.
  439. 00:29:41 DG
  440. Call a bigoted.
  441. 00:29:43 DG
  442. Waved Special access program so waived means it's.
  443. 00:29:46 DG
  444. Limited congressional reporting.
  445. 00:29:49 DG
  446. That is a class of special access programs and bigoted means. It's like by name, and it's like it was.
  447. 00:29:54 DG
  448. You could read the food document. It was like, you know, Harry Reid, James Inhofe, Lou Elizondo, et cetera. I'm.
  449. 00:30:01 DG
  450. Like, why are you?
  451. 00:30:02 DG
  452. Asking for the most serious SAP to be created for a program that ostensibly is looking at Skinwalker Ranch and stuff, and it doesn't make any sense. So what really happened there?
  453. 00:30:15 DG
  454. And you know, Harry, meet Harry Reid. God bless his soul, made this disclosure a couple weeks after we met in The New Yorker. And you can look this up. I think it was like a May 2021 New Yorker story where he says.
  455. 00:30:31 DG
  456. I knew for decades and he made this disclosure, not me, so I'm going to say the name of the contractor, Harry Reid said this, you know, we knew that Lockheed Martin had this material for decades. I tried to get access and I was denied. And specifically with the Lockheed Martin stuff he was talking about during the ASAP program and for the people who are on this program. I submitted this ship to the officer.
  457. 00:30:52 DG
  458. Got this cleared so don't freak out, but I'm.
  459. 00:30:55 DG
  460. Telling the truth here.
  461. 00:30:58 DG
  462. So Lockheed Martin wanted to divest itself from this material at a specific facility that's known to me that I provided to the Inspector General.
  463. 00:31:07 DG
  464. Like street address, all that ****, right?
  465. 00:31:10 DG
  466. And the idea was if they made a catchers Mitt, a security catchers met for this ****, you know, most serious sat possible the contractor and the other government customer, which was the Central Intelligence Agency for that specific Lockheed material. And it was **** that they recovered from, like the 50s and stuff. It was like.
  467. 00:31:29 DG
  468. Bits and pieces of.
  469. 00:31:31 DG
  470. Of of of like hall structure, **** like that.
  471. 00:31:38 DG
  472. So they were going to tech transfer it and the 21 or $22 million was actually for Bigelow Aerospace to build out, you know, facilities in Las Vegas and material analysis equipment. And I've seen I have, I saw the staff meeting slides, I saw the paperwork like there's a paperwork trail I've seen on this ship.
  473. 00:31:58 DG
  474. And I talked to the people involved in this program and, you know, even Jim Latsky, who ran the program.
  475. 00:32:04 DG
  476. Who's retired DA officer, PhD in engineering even made this disclosure in his book Skinwalkers at the Pentagon, Page 152 to 153, and he also made a disclosure a couple weeks ago. I think it was on weaponized podcast with Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp.
  477. 00:32:25 DG
  478. He's like, yeah.
  479. 00:32:26 DG
  480. We had a.
  481. 00:32:27 DG
  482. Whole craft and we broke into the hall and we gained access.
  483. 00:32:31 DG
  484. And he ran that through the same, you know, security process as I did. And so Jim Wakatsuki, who ran this program, is also going on the record that he is aware, personally aware of intact vehicles and everything but.
  485. 00:32:45 JR
  486. So they gain access. What does that mean? And and by what method they gain?
  487. 00:32:49 DG
  488. Access the way he wrote it in his book.
  489. 00:32:51 DG
  490. I can only infer it sounded forcible, so through some kind of, you know, means I don't know if it was like CO2 laser or something. I don't actually know how they gained access, but imagine it was not permissive access. They like broke into the damn.
  491. 00:33:06 JR
  492. Thing. So this thing is essentially sealed.
  493. 00:33:10 JR
  494. And it's some sort of what was the shape of this thing?
  495. 00:33:15 DG
  496. He the Kaski didn't disclose the shape on this particular vehicle as far as I recollect.
  497. 00:33:18 JR
  498. It is. What about the dimensions?
  499. 00:33:21 DG
  500. I don't believe he did in his book, but I think it's like Chapter 11 in his new book or something like glanced at it, but he did make that disclosure on video as well. And I do encourage.
  501. 00:33:32 DG
  502. Both the Arrow Office, which is the DoD's UAP Task force successor, and Congress to ask Doctor James Latsky to come in for classified testimony because.
  503. 00:33:43 DG
  504. The disclosure in his one book that he wrote with Callum Kelleher, George Knapp, and then the second book, well, the guy saying he has close personal knowledge, he needs to go to Congress. So I, you know, I don't know James Lakowski, but I do encourage him to be a fact witness. But going back to that transfer with Lockheed, Long story short, can't get in all the nuance details, but.
  505. 00:34:06 DG
  506. Basically the CIA.
  507. 00:34:10 DG
  508. Said **** you to DIA and Lockheed and it was totally killed. So Harry Reid's request to get the material transferred to the ASAP program was totally killed because of bureaucracy and kind of fiefdom stuff. So they used that money.
  509. 00:34:26 DG
  510. And then they.
  511. 00:34:27 DG
  512. You know, they wrote those defense intelligence.
  513. 00:34:30 DG
  514. Reference documents the DIRD's is a lot of people who's familiar with it. Listening will know about, and then they did look at Skinwalker Ranch because.
  515. 00:34:41 DG
  516. They thought that studying kind of the more woo woo phenomenon aspects of this and I've never been to the ranch, so I've never experienced the ranch for myself. But you know, obviously I think we both know a bunch of people that have been to the ranch and have seen some trippy stuff or at least alleged that they thought that they would be able to gain currency.
  517. 00:35:02 DG
  518. With the with the program you know and in this case CIA to unlock the key for the Lockheed Martin stuff, which actually I'll tell you right now, it's so weird to say that, but I I ran that **** through security. Yeah. To me, it's like an out of body experience to talk about that kind of.
  519. 00:35:19 DG
  520. Detailed sensitivity stuff like that but, but basically they studied the ranch to gain favor, to be like, hey, look at all this stuff. We're figuring out this paranormal stuff that's somehow connected to the phenomenon on the ranch. But ultimately they never gained favor with the government customer. And then the program kind of died a slow death because of.
  521. 00:35:39 DG
  522. A lot of politics in the Pentagon, so that's kind of the.
  523. 00:35:43 DG
  524. Long but short.
  525. 00:35:44 DG
  526. Of it with the OSS app program that you know I wanted to make sure the public knew. It's not what you think it was. There was some other stuff behind the scenes that, you know, I wanted to speak truth.
  527. 00:35:56 JR
  528. To power on so this particular vehicle that they had recovered from the 1950s, what what was the source of it?
  529. 00:36:04 JR
  530. Where they find.
  531. 00:36:04 DG
  532. It those details I did not get cleared.
  533. 00:36:10 JR
  534. So yeah, so they have in possession this thing, they gain access to this thing. And what do they report once they've gained access to?
  535. 00:36:18 DG
  536. It ohh those details I I do not know, that's a that's probably a question for doctor like Katski.
  537. 00:36:25 DG
  538. I presume he knows those details. I don't.
  539. 00:36:27 JR
  540. Know so this thing is housed somewhere.
  541. 00:36:32 DG
  542. It is yes, currently.
  543. 00:36:35 DG
  544. It may still be in the same location.
  545. 00:36:37 DG
  546. That I know.
  547. 00:36:37 JR
  548. About yes. And how many people have access to this, and how did they prevent this information from being released?
  549. 00:36:47 DG
  550. I mean, you know, it's goes back to the compartmentation and kind of the ecosystem of secrecy in this community, right. You know, only a limited amount of people, you know, at least at the time, you know, on Lockheed Martin's side.
  551. 00:36:59 DG
  552. And and Lockheed Martin was complaining, basically. Like look like the secrecy is ridiculous. We can't even bring the right engineers. Like, imagine you're like a hot engineer. A hot engineer. No hot shot engineer. You might be hot too, I don't know. But that you're fresh out of grad school. Maybe you're like the best PhD electrical engineer.
  553. 00:37:19 DG
  554. You wanna do cool ****? You wanna publish an I triple E. You wanna like you know, climb the ladder corporately, you know, and that kind.
  555. 00:37:27 DG
  556. Thing Lockheed Martin executive comes to you. Yeah, dude, you're gonna. I can reach into something really crazy, but you're never going to publish papers on it. You're never going to be able to tell people what you worked on, and it's probably not the most career enhancing. But if you want to work on something cool. But I can't tell you.
  557. 00:37:47 DG
  558. Cause it's unacknowledged until you sign this piece of paper non disclosure agreement.
  559. 00:37:56 DG
  560. You know, sorry, but here's the raw deal and you know a lot.
  561. 00:37:59 DG
  562. Of people are.
  563. 00:38:00 DG
  564. Like **** you. No. And. And it's not like Lockheed Martin could broadcast this to universities, like, come work for.
  565. 00:38:07 DG
  566. Us. Right, you'll.
  567. 00:38:08 DG
  568. Work on crazy shifts and, but that is very akin to a lot of other black programs in the government that are adding knowledge in nature.
  569. 00:38:17 DG
  570. You don't know what you're signing up for until you get bred in, and I've, you know, I've been briefed to a lot of that.
  571. 00:38:21 JR
  572. Kind of conventional stuff in my career. So that's one of the the the problems that Bob Lazar and I'd love to get your take on Bob Lazar, one of one of the things that he talked about.
  573. 00:38:32 JR
  574. Was that science can't really operate in a vacuum. When you separate the metallurgists from the propulsions, experts from the biological experts like, and they're not allowed to communicate with each other and they're not allowed to bring in other experts to.
  575. 00:38:46 DG
  576. Have different? Well, that was the frustration that I had some friends that I've known my entire career, like almost 14 years, right?
  577. 00:38:53 DG
  578. I literally know them. Personally I had a relationship with them, but they ended up, you know, spilling the beans where, you know, look, we're we're on the program. I'm an engineer for XY and Z.
  579. 00:39:05 DG
  580. We can't even cross talk across like the cubicles, for God sakes. Like, I can't. I'm looking at material X doing some.
  581. 00:39:15 DG
  582. X-ray diffraction testing on it, which is like shooting a stream of electrons and seeing how how bends and and looking at the atomic arrangements. I can't even like cross talk that with another aspect of the program. This is like ridiculous and and that's kind of their frustration.
  583. 00:39:30 DG
  584. And yeah, I know you probably gonna ask me about Bulbasaur. I know I I figured I figured.
  585. 00:39:35 DG
  586. As much, yeah, yeah.
  587. 00:39:36 JR
  588. Why did they do that, though? If everybody was already sworn to secrecy? Everybody already has NDA's, it seems the most effective way of reverse engineering, or at least gaining an understanding of how.
  589. 00:39:46 JR
  590. These things are structured.
  591. 00:39:47 DG
  592. Well, that's exactly how Manhattan was right. People working on the fuses for the bomb didn't necessarily know it was going to a nuclear weapon. And so. And I've seen this kind of compartmentation it's obtuse secrecy and other programs, and it is debilitating for progress. And honestly, as a fiduciary, former fiduciary of the taxpayer dollars, it's.
  593. 00:40:06 DG
  594. Not the best modus operandi us to do it that way, and very few people kind of had that top down could look across the silos and see what was going on. It just became very dysfunctional and they were afraid of people being too cross briefed into the different silos for counter espionage, counterintelligence.
  595. 00:40:27 DG
  596. That, you know, they were going to remember a bulk of this program is done during the Cold War and, you know, we were afraid of Russian spies, Soviet moles. And so we made it Ultra locked down, but to the detriment of national security. And that was one of the crazy things.
  597. 00:40:43 DG
  598. This that got me that I wanted to whistle blow on it cause I'm like.
  599. 00:40:46 DG
  600. This is.
  601. 00:40:46 DG
  602. So stupid, right? We should be making more progress.
  603. 00:40:49 DG
  604. On this, yeah.
  605. 00:40:49 JR
  606. Were there any breaches that you're aware of where foreign agents were able to gain access to materials or an understanding of what we know?
  607. 00:40:59 DG
  608. So I'll tell you about some.
  609. 00:41:00 DG
  610. Intel documents I read that kind of obliquely answers that question, so.
  611. 00:41:04 DG
  612. So there were sense of human drive for an intelligence that I read. So I had access to kind of the a tip offs app classified archives and I was like thumbing through everything and there's some other people were bringing me documents to evaluate.
  613. 00:41:20 DG
  614. And I'll never forget, I had to say, stolen by the US intelligence assessment from a certain foreign adversary discussing the US.
  615. 00:41:33 DG
  616. Reverse engineering program and I was like and that was actually another like what the ****? And. And so I had an adversary also confirmed this program literally because of exfiltrated intelligence. And so they certainly had a limited knowledge at least fact.
  617. 00:41:53 DG
  618. Of that, the US had a program like this, a particular adversary, and actually.
  619. 00:41:59 DG
  620. I was like, well, I want more like it. I know who wrote this literal or who got it right on behalf of the United States government. So I went to that certain agency through the approved and official way. And this is kind of part of the merriest reprisals against me. The agency was like, oh, yes, we have what you're looking for, Dave.
  621. 00:42:19 DG
  622. You're gonna need to sign a one time read into something you know. Come visit us to, you know, go to the vault and read it. Right. You know, hard copy. Umm, but yes, we have what you're looking for and ultimately.
  623. 00:42:33 DG
  624. From what I was told by friends in higher places, my request kind of went up the flagpole at that agency.
  625. 00:42:39 DG
  626. And all of a sudden, the agency ghosted my boss and I for like 2 months. And then, when I really pressed them hard to gain access, cause I'm like, I have a need to know I need to evaluate this intelligence for *******.
  627. 00:42:54 DG
  628. And they debriefed me from all my accesses over in that other sister agency and made-up some bogus excuse. Like I should have been briefed. Anything in the 1st place, literally, and basically gave me an administrative middle finger like persona non grata.
  629. 00:43:14 DG
  630. Don't ever ******* ask us about that **** again and I and I I I'm sure the person who made the oops that told me they had what I was looking for, probably got admonished and slapped on the wrist because I never heard from that person again, even though it was somebody I actually used to work on occasion with. So.
  631. 00:43:31 DG
  632. So that was also another way I knew I was, you know, there was a lot of smoke and fire because I, you know, had stuff like.
  633. 00:43:41 DG
  634. That happened to me so.
  635. 00:43:43 JR
  636. This, but knowing that our adversaries were aware of this reverse engineering program, are we aware of their reverse engineering programs? Yeah.
  637. 00:43:57 JR
  638. Which countries have some? OK. Yeah, the big ones.
  639. 00:43:59 DG
  640. You you could.
  641. 00:44:00 DG
  642. You could probably guess and and you wouldn't be. It won't be too shocking. OK, but I won't acknowledge what the US may know, right?
  643. 00:44:06
  644. I'm sorry.
  645. 00:44:07 JR
  646. So are we aware of numbers in terms of like A at least a rough estimate of how many are available to these other?
  647. 00:44:17 JR
  648. Yeah. How many?
  649. 00:44:18 DG
  650. OK. That that's like super sensitive. Yeah, you can read into that. Yeah, yeah.
  651. 00:44:20 JR
  652. But there's more than one.
  653. 00:44:23 JR
  654. You could read into.
  655. 00:44:24 JR
  656. And has anyone made any progress?
  657. 00:44:28 DG
  658. Yeah, I can't get into if we've made progress, if they've made progress cause that's like straight up some national security stuff. But like, I want the just to be clear, I want the US populists to learn a lot of this, and This is why, you know, another reason why I went public is like, I need to call everybody else.
  659. 00:44:48 DG
  660. I'm not here to admonish the entire government, mind you, but there is an element of the US government and it's clear defense contractor.
  661. 00:44:56 DG
  662. Case that you know we have a three branch of government oversight issue, like going back to Harry Reid. Harry Reid didn't even get access. I ******* talked to him myself to confirm that. And he said he was gonna go talk to Biden because I think there needs to be a disclosure plan. And this goes back to what's currently in legislation.
  663. 00:45:16 DG
  664. Right now, that's super ******* important.
  665. 00:45:20 DG
  666. Because 9090 some odd percent of this should should be open for public discovery, public analysis, and academia. This should be like, at very least true nuclear programs such as nuclear physics. You study in university.
  667. 00:45:38 DG
  668. Nuclear weapons.
  669. 00:45:39 DG
  670. Classified because that makes people in the pink mist that's really sensitive. We don't need everybody to know how to do that.
  671. 00:45:47 DG
  672. So I think the stuff that is like legit weapons related stuff that's like straight up national superiority stuff, sure, reasonably classify that. But but this these programs.
  673. 00:46:01 DG
  674. We need to.
  675. 00:46:01 DG
  676. Change and that's why you saw the Schumer amendment, right. And I think you might have.
  677. 00:46:07 DG
  678. Read that on air or something in the previous episode correctly. You know Chuck Schumer and I knew about the amendment a couple months before I went public, and that's kind of another reason why I did what I did. I'm like.
  679. 00:46:18 DG
  680. ****. I'm like the only guy that kind of has the opportunity to do this. I know what's in the shoot, so to speak, that Chuck Schumer and his staff had with the Schumer amendment, which is 67 pages of literal. We want to disclose. And I'm like, I have to spike the football by going public because, you know, I can read the tea leaves on the hill. And I think that they were hesitant to do anything.
  681. 00:46:43 DG
  682. Without being able.
  683. 00:46:43 DG
  684. To point to something publicly, and I'm like, be that ******* guy and just.
  685. 00:46:48 DG
  686. That and and then of course a month after I went public, I guess I pushed Chuck Schumer over the ledge and I do know he talked to the White House about the amendment too, because not like Chuck Schumer's going to propose groundbreaking legislation like that without talking to the national security adviser or President.
  687. 00:47:09 DG
  688. Like I imagine he did so.
  689. 00:47:11 DG
  690. And you know, so you have the 67 page amendments, right? It's called the AP Disclosure Act of 2023, known as the Schumer Amendment Co sponsors were young Gillibrand Rubio rounds. Yeah. And yeah. And, you know, kudos for those senators for stepping up to the plate because.
  691. 00:47:32 DG
  692. They know this is real. I know what meetings they've had with certain other individuals that are, you know, even more credible than myself. And so this this act, which is like super important, is currently in conference as we speak.
  693. 00:47:46 DG
  694. In Capitol Hill, so the amendment is wrapped in something called the fiscal year 2024 National Defense Authorization Act, so that is.
  695. 00:47:55 DG
  696. The act that.
  697. 00:47:56 DG
  698. Funds the military basically every year, right? So it's an amendment within this bill.
  699. 00:48:01 DG
  700. And the act is really long, but the main meat of it is about halfway through the act that talks about a presidential panel or agency, which is nine person and a controlled U AP disclosure plan that's six years in length, conceivably from 2024 to 2030 in this panel.
  701. 00:48:22 DG
  702. And you can read this is public law. Anybody can read this. They want a scientist. Economists, you know, you know, sociologists, et cetera. It's kind of.
  703. 00:48:32 DG
  704. Who you would want to help craft the plan for the President and this whole bill was actually.
  705. 00:48:38 DG
  706. Built off the JFK Records Act, which I know like they're like, well, they never released all the records. Well, we put some teeth in the bill, some eminent domain, some other stuff, the.
  707. 00:48:47 DG
  708. You know, kind of forced the issue now granted the chief executive, the President has the final say. The panel can't compel the executive to do it. But like, I hope the President does and I support that.
  709. 00:49:00 DG
  710. But so the Senate already passed it. They're chill with this. This is like we're we're good to go and and but there's push back in the house right now that is, you know, part of my language ******* ridiculous. So they're saying for one it's duplicating the DoD Arrows office activities. They're doing good things. They're looking at UPS.
  711. 00:49:22 DG
  712. Ports trying to figure out what's balloons and air trash and what's weird stuff. And of course they are doing an historical review to try to understand the US's history on this too. But the problem is with that agency.
  713. 00:49:35 DG
  714. It it's within the DoD and IC not above. So you have an issue reaching into Department of Energy other you know cabinet level agencies, you need a presidential level panel that can declassify stuff, reach into other agencies and tell you know certain secretaries.
  715. 00:49:55 DG
  716. We're coming in. We want your stuff under presidential authority. So what's happening in the house?
  717. 00:50:02 DG
  718. From what I'm told from people on the hill that are working, the issue right now.
  719. 00:50:06 DG
  720. You have the the chair of the House, Intel Committee, Mike Turner, who's blocking this.
  721. 00:50:12 DG
  722. From Ohio, Dayton, OH area. Right, pat. Weird.
  723. 00:50:16 DG
  724. And yes, yeah. And Mike Rogers, which I'm kind of surprised from Alabama, who's the chair of the House Armed Services Committee. So I have a problem with Mike and Mike right now. So Mike Turner, now remember I.
  725. 00:50:16 JR
  726. Right, pat, meaning Wright, Patterson, Air Force.
  727. 00:50:33 DG
  728. Went to his committee in December of last year. He wasn't there, but his staff and lawyers were.
  729. 00:50:39 DG
  730. And of course, he goes on Fox business.
  731. 00:50:42 DG
  732. After the hearing doesn't use my names like this whistleblower, he has no idea what he's talking about. I'm like, really? Tell me, Mike, have you ever been an Intel officer or served in the military? Oh, wait, you've been the a mayor, the mayor of Dayton. OH, you were voted most corrupt person in Congress a couple years ago and.
  733. 00:51:02 DG
  734. Pull up his pack donors who are his biggest donors, Lockheed, Raytheon, Boeing.
  735. 00:51:07 DG
  736. OK, so and first of all, if you thought that you needed more information or wanted to talk to me personally, why didn't you?
  737. 00:51:14 DG
  738. Call me back when I reported to your committee so and furthermore, besides blocking the bill.
  739. 00:51:21 DG
  740. I'm sure you're familiar with like Representative Tim Burchett of Alabama, and he's been very outspoken on the issue and what we may not agree with everything Tim says about conventional stuff, that's, you know.
  741. 00:51:33 DG
  742. Here no there, but you know he's been a champion on the oversight committee. And he was, you know, one of the Members that I testified in public under oath regarding this. So like and Mike Turner is looking to fund. According to staffers I've talked to last two weeks, an opposition candidate for Time's reelection in 2020.
  743. 00:51:54 DG
  744. Four. So why is Mike Turner?
  745. 00:51:56 DG
  746. Going out of his way to.
  747. 00:51:57 DG
  748. Destroy the career of.
  749. 00:51:59 DG
  750. A courageous Tennessee representative on the oversight committee.
  751. 00:52:04 DG
  752. And are you blocking the bill and it's not going to cost much couple million a year Max. You know for the panel which is like vaporware and U.S. government speak, right, if there's nothing to see here, why are Mike Rogers and Mike Turner in the house blocking this bill that is in my opinion.
  753. 00:52:23 DG
  754. The most important.
  755. 00:52:25 DG
  756. Legislation for and transparency in American history. If there's nothing to see here. If I'm ******* crazy multistore generals I talked to are crazy. The Intel docs that I read are incorrect. They're ******* forgeries or passage material or something like that. Good friends of mine that worked on the program are ************ me and some consorted.
  757. 00:52:45 DG
  758. Operation against me and my colleagues that it would be totally crazy to even conduct that cause. I took precautions. Then why don't we just pass this and see what happens?
  759. 00:52:57 JR
  760. And why? What do you?
  761. 00:52:58 JR
  762. Think the answer to that.
  763. 00:52:58 DG
  764. Is special interests want to keep the genie in the bottle even though the toothpaste is coming out of the tube?
  765. 00:53:04 DG
  766. And I think it's like a death rattle.
  767. 00:53:07 DG
  768. In this industrial complex that doesn't want change and I'm not here to be psych some total adversary, I I think there needs to be a truth and reconciliation process on this. I.
  769. 00:53:19 DG
  770. I'm not here to throw people in jail. I'm not here for big contractors involved to lose money. I think this is would be a boon and I think the leadership in these companies need to think about this, where if we're more open with this, you can hire people, you can push the subject into undergraduate graduates and.
  771. 00:53:39 DG
  772. Postdoctoral programs of, you know, research to study this in an unclassified, just like nuclear physics.
  773. 00:53:47 DG
  774. This answers a fundamental question.
  775. 00:53:52 DG
  776. You know for humanity. Are we alone or you know what happens when we die? Well, I don't know about that, but are we alone? Well, the answer is we're not alone. And I know that with 100% certainty, which as an Intel officer, you never say 100%, but all things pointed towards based on the people I talked to.
  777. 00:54:12 DG
  778. Like Harry Reid and I use him as an example, but I talked to the highest of the high people you could possibly talk to if you catch my drift. So.
  779. 00:54:23 DG
  780. Unless all of them are lying and they're covering up something else, which I don't even know what it would be at this point because the phenomenon.
  781. 00:54:30 DG
  782. Is real. It's been going on for thousands of years. People been seeing strange things and not everybody's mass hallucinating. So that's kind of my long diatribe about what's.
  783. 00:54:39 JR
  784. Happening. What do they think these things are? The people that you talk to?
  785. 00:54:43 DG
  786. Yeah. So they specifically the people on the program that handle the material that were in executive level briefings with.
  787. 00:54:53 DG
  788. Intel community leaders and other folks over the years last 20 years or so, they did use the term extraterrestrial ET or whatever.
  789. 00:55:02 DG
  790. OK, that isn't a possible origin, but the Schumer amendment if you read it it specifically uses non human intelligence and HI very deliberately because we want to catch everything because what if some of this stuff is not ET and they're going to use as an escape clause like, well, this stuff that we don't even know if it's extraterrestrial, so this doesn't apply.
  791. 00:55:23 DG
  792. So that's why we wanted to be as.
  793. 00:55:25 DG
  794. Broad as possible. I mean, besides ET, I mean, a lot of it would be my own.
  795. 00:55:31 DG
  796. Personal opinion, I think we have.
  797. 00:55:35 DG
  798. A couple.
  799. 00:55:37 DG
  800. Conceivable buckets and I'm.
  801. 00:55:40 DG
  802. Using the work of Jacques valet, other people that have thought deeply on the issue, on how the phenomenon has changed since antiquity, it showed it showed itself in a different way. Like a good example is like witches sitting on your chest phenomenon with, you know, paralysis and medieval and enlightenment.
  803. 00:56:00 DG
  804. Area, you know, era became this alien abduction phenomenon in the modern area. Air. Excuse me? And is it is?
  805. 00:56:11 DG
  806. The recipient and their analytical overlay cognitively seeing the phenomenon based on a modern interpretation. You know inside outs or is the phenomenon. This is, like Jacquez book passport to Magnolia, Magnolia. Can I pronounce it right 1969, where he talks about the phenomenon seems to like masquerade.
  807. 00:56:31 DG
  808. Itself is different stuff over the years, but you know we've seen roughly the same stuff. You look at the Foo Fighters, World War 2, there are declassified Air Force OSI reports in the 50s.
  809. 00:56:44 DG
  810. You people can.
  811. 00:56:44 DG
  812. Google that talk about flying butane tanks.
  813. 00:56:48 DG
  814. With the same measurements, approximately what we saw in the 2004 tic TAC incident, but they called it flying propane or, you know, butane tanks in the 50s. So from a morphology or in the Air Force until we call it this wrecky visual reconnaissance like they basically look the same.
  815. 00:57:08 DG
  816. And we can back asthma that.
  817. 00:57:10 DG
  818. You know, decades if not hundreds of years in the past, you know, wheels of Ezekiel, right? They're seeing these like disk type objects. Right. And unless Ezekiel is tripping or this is an allegory or fable in the in the Bible, you know, let's say the event happens just like the.
  819. 00:57:26 DG
  820. The in the Vedic text you have the battles, the blue people in the battles in the sky that sound like nuclear and directed energy weapons, like what's going on there? I mean, maybe that's a Graham Hancock or Randall Carlson type thing. They could they know more than I. So there is a real phenomenon that origin.
  821. 00:57:46 DG
  822. Undetermined, but it it's trippy, and sometimes it presents itself in like a non corporeal form too. You know, orbs, balls of energy. You know that that they don't appear as like some kind of bipedal hominid. Like some people have expal. So I think that might be.
  823. 00:58:07 DG
  824. Call it interdimensional, call it shadow Biome cryptocurrency. I mean, there's a lot of different theories. Yeah, yeah.
  825. 00:58:13 JR
  826. The primary theory, the primary theories are from another planet or from another dimension.
  827. 00:58:19 DG
  828. I think those are the primary. I mean there's certainly.
  829. 00:58:23 DG
  830. Origins that we probably can't conceptualize as humans because we're just our meat, is stuck in 3D and we don't understand, and our IQ's are only so high. So there might be some origins that we don't.
  831. 00:58:34 JR
  832. Understand in terms of like interdimensional travel.
  833. 00:58:38 DG
  834. Yeah. I mean obviously, you know, if you talk to mainstream physicists, they say like crossing dimensions physically.
  835. 00:58:44 DG
  836. Is kind of a true.
  837. 00:58:46 DG
  838. Of sci-fi and you know I, that's why I used an example and that is some physicists don't like me talking about this theory, but it is a theory, you know, like, so the holographic principle, which was originally conceived to explain how information is encoded on an event horizon of a black hole.
  839. 00:59:05 DG
  840. Which is a distance away from the singularity of a black hole, where if you cross it, you're ****** because you're going to get ripped to shreds, or you're not coming back. And that principle talks about how information basically from higher dimensional space can be encoded.
  841. 00:59:23 DG
  842. And lower dimensional space and the easiest example is like us casting a shadow on a sidewalk right three-dimensional object 2D shadow on a sidewalk. If you lived in two-dimensional space flat land you'd be tripped out. What the **** am I seeing? But they just don't know that. It's really just the person in higher dimensional.
  843. 00:59:44 DG
  844. Base so is some of the.
  845. 00:59:46 DG
  846. I mean, obviously we have physical material that's in three-dimensional space that we've recovered, but at least maybe.
  847. 00:59:51 DG
  848. Some of the phenomenon.
  849. 00:59:53 DG
  850. Is really operating in higher spatial dimensions, but is either being projected or quasi projected into our 3D plus time space, which is really trippy to think about, but we literally do it on a day-to-day basis like casting shadows. So and that might be some of what we're seeing too. But I mean I presume.
  851. 01:00:12 DG
  852. We know more.
  853. 01:00:13 DG
  854. The people I talked to did not.
  855. 01:00:16 DG
  856. Expels they had full knowledge either. Like I said, the the the normal colloquialism was to say ET or extraterrestrial.
  857. 01:00:23 JR
  858. So dumbed down this concept of interdimensional.
  859. 01:00:28 JR
  860. Like, yeah, what I know in physics they have theorized that there are multiple dimensions other than those that we can currently.
  861. 01:00:36 DG
  862. Detect. Yeah. And a lot of that is based off of like large. This is my bachelor's degree talking. I know there's gonna be like some physicists who is a PHD's like Ohh Dave. You ****** that up but right, but basically.
  863. 01:00:49 DG
  864. You know.
  865. 01:00:49 DG
  866. From high energy particle collisions and based on the the flexion angles and all this stuff, what happens when the particles collide, you know?
  867. 01:00:59 DG
  868. Confirm certain theoretical frameworks about extra spatial dimensions and you know I can't speak with any real authority on, you know precisely how that works. But a lot of.
  869. 01:01:11 DG
  870. Whether it be string theory or quantum mechanics are based off of higher spatial dimensions and you know, so that is a mainstream physics theoretical framework. That's not like wacky or looney or anything like that. So but that's.
  871. 01:01:28 DG
  872. Basically a possibility, but like I said, like we don't really have a good theory. If you if you work, if you lived in like 5D space for example, it's almost like remember the ending of the movie Interstellar, right, where where he's pushing the books he's like in a tesseract, you know, which is like A4 to 5D structure, but he's trying to interact with 3D.
  873. 01:01:49 DG
  874. Base and of course he like leaves that space to come back to his daughter many years later. At the end of the ending of the movie. Great.
  875. 01:01:56 DG
  876. OK. But so that's a way to conceptualize it in something you may have watched in film. It's kind of like the ending of interstellar. Ohh yeah. Yeah. There you go. Yeah.
  877. 01:02:06 JR
  878. This is this thing.
  879. 01:02:09 JR
  880. Which is based on what? Like what theory?
  881. 01:02:12 DG
  882. So the physicist.
  883. 01:02:14 DG
  884. Kip Thorne was the very famous guy. He was a big black hole and worm hole guy. I think it's Caltech or somewhere in California.
  885. 01:02:23 DG
  886. Kip Thorne actually did all the physics equations and everything for Christopher Nolan to make sure that they were conceptualizing and visualizing black holes and worm holes and all that stuff correctly. In the movie we saw like the the Halo around the black hole when they were coming in with the ship and everything.
  887. 01:02:43 DG
  888. That's actually based off of real physics models that Kip Thorne did the calculations for, which is pretty cool, actually, that Christopher Nolan took it to that level.
  889. 01:02:50 JR
  890. You know, so this idea that these beings or whatever you want to call them, exist in some other dimension, do we have?
  891. 01:03:02 JR
  892. I mean, I don't know what you can say about this. Do we have an understanding? Do we have any sort of communication with these beings that give us some sort of an understanding or a map of this? Yeah, the interaction stuff. It's a sensitive area.
  893. 01:03:21 DG
  894. There were multiple very senior people that were concerned about talking about that kind of stuff with me. I mean, that is certainly.
  895. 01:03:27 DG
  896. Me as nuts as it sounds. That was a real subject of conversation. Even it sounds like something out of, like Star Trek first contact, you know? Yeah.
  897. 01:03:34 JR
  898. But it doesn't if you have.
  899. 01:03:35 DG
  900. Yeah. So it's it's like once you realize the phenomenon is real.
  901. 01:03:41 DG
  902. Then you realize we've recovered artifacts and you know biologics or, you know, dead pilots, if you will, even though it's, you know, kind of creepy to even think about that in your worldview.
  903. 01:03:54 DG
  904. You don't think they were ever?
  905. 01:03:56 DG
  906. You know, alive sometimes too, right. And I'll, you know, leave it at that. Only because that, you know, that is something, you know, the the President and his cabinet need to disclose this in a controlled manner. Going back to that amendment, you know, I'm not here.
  907. 01:04:12 DG
  908. To, you know, push the subject in an improper.
  909. 01:04:16 DG
  910. Way, and that sounds like why don't you just do it, Dave? And like there's a lot of secondary and tertiary ramifications. Socioeconomically. Theologically, our relationship geopolitically with our allies and adversaries, this is not.
  911. 01:04:32 DG
  912. Rip off the Band-Aid and it's simple there. There's there's a lot of complex stuff behind the scenes that need to happen and that's why I'm I'm laying out all the general stuff that needs to be talked about during the disclosure process. But I should not be the one disclosing and it would be highly inappropriate because I care about.
  913. 01:04:51 DG
  914. The health of the United States and its people and national security for me to do so. So I know there's people that are like ohh, why doesn't Dave say XY and Z? It's like this is serious. This is not like.
  915. 01:05:03 DG
  916. Haha, let me tell you a good story. I'm a serious guy. I ruined my ******* career doing this. I was going to make Lieutenant Colonel in the Air Force, and this winter I was on track to be, you know, a flag officer equivalent civilian in my career, I spent 18 years in uniform, if you count the cadet time, right, my whole adult life.
  917. 01:05:23 DG
  918. Was serving as an Intel officer.
  919. 01:05:25 DG
  920. But I wanted to see and. I'm 36, right? Older millennial. I wanted to see change, so I'm throwing the flag out.
  921. 01:05:34 DG
  922. And I'm here to hold the government accountable to do the right thing in a manner that is mature and thorough, because I don't begin to say that I know everything, all the different ramifications of saying certain things publicly. I don't know all the answers to that, and that's why I have to be careful because.
  923. 01:05:53 DG
  924. I don't even know. I'll call it, you know, collateral damage effects, these kind of a military term, what may happen if certain things.
  925. 01:06:00 DG
  926. Things in detail that are revealed that I might not know the ramifications thereof because there's something that I'm not Privy to. So this is like a serious this is not like a fun situation. This is like a humanity changing, hopefully in a good way. But this is like, you know.
  927. 01:06:19 DG
  928. Quite serious and I, you know, risked my personal and professional life and I personal life because things have happened to me.
  929. 01:06:28 DG
  930. To be public like this and and you know, I swore an oath. But you know, myself and my generation, you know, want to see.
  931. 01:06:35 JR
  932. It change. Can you discuss the things that have happened?
  933. 01:06:37 DG
  934. You personally? Yeah. So a lot of the stuff I have to be purposely vague because there's an open Inspector General reprisal investigation on my behalf and I'm not here to compromise the investigation.
  935. 01:06:49 DG
  936. Like tipping off?
  937. 01:06:50 DG
  938. My antibodies that may be watching right now but.
  939. 01:06:55 DG
  940. You know, when I really started looking into this, I mean, they came after me so hard to try to revoke my clearance, ruined my career, kicked me out of my agency, and they accused me of everything you could possibly think of with, like, no evidence.
  941. 01:07:16 DG
  942. For example.
  943. 01:07:18 DG
  944. At first they they wanted to say, oh, Dave, you have mental health stuff. You didn't report to us. We're concerned because we you we think you might have an ongoing mental health issue. I'm like talking about. I reported that I had PTSD from Afghanistan and my military service several years ago, and I helped for that. Like I I'm not ashamed of that.
  945. 01:07:28 DG
  946. Are you?
  947. 01:07:38 DG
  948. You know, I'm high functioning autistic and.
  949. 01:07:41 DG
  950. And I didn't know that until my early 30s and and how I processed trauma, I didn't really understand until many years.
  951. 01:07:48 DG
  952. Later and you know, I sought help for that and they were trying to say that, like, I had some secret mental health problem that I haven't been reporting to. So I had to go through this whole process, three agencies at the same time investigated me for that, which I don't even know if that's like, legal.
  953. 01:08:08 DG
  954. They tried to say that I like mishandled classify all this other stuff. It was insane apparently.
  955. 01:08:14 DG
  956. I was under criminal investigation for a couple of months and I didn't even know that, and nor did they interview me, but they made a finding with no evidence. They tried to use against me that I had to spend.
  957. 01:08:25 DG
  958. Money to basically.
  959. 01:08:27 DG
  960. Litigate and maintain my employment and my clearance, which I did. For the record, I maintain my clearance. I resigned with full.
  961. 01:08:35 DG
  962. Accesses. You know, I'm just debrief now, but I maintained my top secret eligibility.
  963. 01:08:41 DG
  964. And I left with my own accord and. And so. And of course, they ruined one of my boss's careers in another agency. They walked him out of the building and revoked his clearance and terminated him as a show of force after they were.
  965. 01:08:56 DG
  966. Going after me.
  967. 01:08:57 DG
  968. And I feel sorry for that certain individual.
  969. 01:09:01 DG
  970. And they came after coworkers of mine. I can't get into. Who, what, when, where and why? To protect their identities and their own process. But.
  971. 01:09:09 DG
  972. So that's what happened to me professionally and then.
  973. 01:09:13 DG
  974. What happened to me personally was.
  975. 01:09:16 DG
  976. Very disturbing. So I had to be very vague about this because.
  977. 01:09:22 DG
  978. Ongoing investigation, but I think you'll understand what I'm saying is.
  979. 01:09:29 DG
  980. They showed my wife and I they can touch me at anytime, two times.
  981. 01:09:34 DG
  982. And it was very disturbing. It was in conjunction with some other people getting a message like that that are to say publicly well known, some that aren't publicly well known.
  983. 01:09:45 DG
  984. And of course, I immediately reported that to, you know, counterintelligence, federal law enforcement, local to me, because it, you know, wasn't criminal. But it was like a ****.
  985. 01:09:54 DG
  986. You to me like.
  987. 01:09:56 DG
  988. And this was right before I filed my whistleblower complaint. Now I don't know who did this, you know, entity who did XY and Z to my wife and I identity unknown. But it ******* happens. And I, you know, provided that documentation to a couple special agents.
  989. 01:10:14 DG
  990. And I just knew that it was getting serious.
  991. 01:10:19 DG
  992. And you know as.
  993. 01:10:23 DG
  994. First of all, I'm the kind of person I'm I'm from Pittsburgh, you know, like Seal town. I don't.
  995. 01:10:27 DG
  996. Take **** from.
  997. 01:10:28 DG
  998. People and I decided, **** it, I'm gonna file an Inspector General complaint to protect myself. I don't. I'm in fear for my safety. You know, my wife's an Air Force veteran too. And you know very strong individual. But, you know, as a man, you don't.
  999. 01:10:44 DG
  1000. Want to put your family at risk and, you know, did certain other measures which I won't talk about to protect myself, you know, physically. And I could not believe.
  1001. 01:10:56 DG
  1002. That that was happening to me. No kidding, and I knew.
  1003. 01:11:01 DG
  1004. I needed to do something internally and then when I saw the.
  1005. 01:11:04 DG
  1006. Writing on the wall.
  1007. 01:11:06 DG
  1008. Earlier this year, and of course, I knew about the amendment. Like I mentioned earlier, and I knew I'm like, you know, I I gotta do this for my own protection because me leaving the federal service cause I resigned my Air Force Commission. I totally threw that career away.
  1009. 01:11:20 DG
  1010. To do what I thought was the right and patriotic thing.
  1011. 01:11:23 DG
  1012. To whistle blow on this, you know, and I, you know, swore my oath 18 years ago and that.
  1013. 01:11:29 DG
  1014. Sounds hokey, but I believe.
  1015. 01:11:32 DG
  1016. You know integrity first service before self and excellence all we do. That's the Air Force motto. And I'm like I this is not gonna help me personally. Like love talking to you. I like spreading this message because it's the right and ethical thing to do. But this is a nightmare for me. I don't want to be public. I've served the country in clandestine and covert operations for 14 years.
  1017. 01:11:54 DG
  1018. I've done technical intelligence for some of the most high profile takedowns in U.S. history. I shouldn't even be here.
  1019. 01:12:02 DG
  1020. But I am because I want to see change. I saw something unethical and immoral. I want to make sure I hold that element of the government accountable.
  1021. 01:12:13 DG
  1022. It was the right ******* thing to do. And and I get kind of emotional about that because.
  1023. 01:12:18 DG
  1024. You know, my career has been service and sacrifice and.
  1025. 01:12:21 DG
  1026. You know, I had two friends of mine die, and I've talked about this publicly before, and I, you know, I'm segueing a little bit, but the the suffering of the American intelligence officer is something that for their service of their country. And I'm talking about this subject, obviously.
  1027. 01:12:39 DG
  1028. People don't realize the kind of.
  1029. 01:12:43 DG
  1030. Intel professionals go through. So first of all, I had a friend six months after I got back from Afghanistan. His name is Captain Dave Lyon. There's a park in Peterson Space Force space named after him. I remember seeing his coffin come off the plane though, so you know, I saw him die that.
  1031. 01:13:02 DG
  1032. That ****** me up for a number of years, and that's what you know, gave me a lot of my my problems. I ended up dealing with, but then I had.
  1033. 01:13:09 DG
  1034. I remarried and then my best man, captain Ben Heiney, Air Force Intelligence Officer, Air Force Special Operations command. I've known him for years. He's my closest friend, you know, best man at my wedding. And then 28 days later.
  1035. 01:13:26 DG
  1036. Unfortunately, he suffered from depression and it was, you know, he as his best friend. He didn't even confide in me. You know, I remember chitchatting him chatting with him on the phone one day, about 28 days after he was my best man. And he didn't tell me anything was wrong with him. And a few hours later, he walked in his backyard and shot himself.
  1037. 01:13:46 DG
  1038. And you know, I gave his eulogy at his at his.
  1039. 01:13:51 DG
  1040. His funeral and that really, you know, really affected me and and and with what Ben experienced.
  1041. 01:13:58 DG
  1042. Which I can't get into all the stuff he did obviously. But imagine being the guy that decides that that person.
  1043. 01:14:06 DG
  1044. Is bad fire the hell fire?
  1045. 01:14:10 DG
  1046. That person is now pink mist. That they're dead. You just played. God. Let's go back to you know, the wife and kids at the end of your shift. And a lot of that I, you know, I did the same kind of thing I did a lot of stuff overseas, involved interrogations and.
  1047. 01:14:27 DG
  1048. You know OPS that where you had to decide if a target is bad enough, where you're going to affect their life forever and their families life forever and. And that's the silent suffering of Intel professionals, especially during the Global War on Terror, which is, you know, 21 years or.
  1049. 01:14:42 DG
  1050. So and you know the the trauma and the mental health problems that people.
  1051. 01:14:50 DG
  1052. Get from being an Intel professional and operational environment. People think like special operators, pilots, et cetera. You know, Army, Marines, ground pounders, and they certainly have their own trauma. But it's this weird insidia.
  1053. 01:15:04 DG
  1054. This am I in a video game? Is this real?
  1055. 01:15:07 DG
  1056. Trauma that intelligence professionals and I just wanted to highlight that during the show because that was just a near and dear to myself. So people are aware of the service of military intelligence and civilian intelligence professionals that.
  1057. 01:15:23 DG
  1058. Have to make really tough decisions for the country that affect people's lives on the receiving end, you know.
  1059. 01:15:29 JR
  1060. So was there a concern while you're going through all this, that if you didn't come out with this, that we would be stuck in this same sort of loop?
  1061. 01:15:39 JR
  1062. For a long, long period of time, and no one.
  1063. 01:15:42 JR
  1064. Would ever have access to this?
  1065. 01:15:43 JR
  1066. Stuff that they would continue.
  1067. 01:15:46 DG
  1068. Yeah, and that you nailed it on the head is, you know, I think my generation wants it changed the under forty generation. Their parents went to war, their older brothers went to war. We're fighting too dangerous proxy wars right now.
  1069. 01:16:03 DG
  1070. Stupid. I mean the better way of saying it be quite frank and you know, I give you my own assessment on that if you want, but I like we're in this loop. We're not progressing in a healthy way. As a civilization, you know, it's becoming more divisive, whether on the left or the right.
  1071. 01:16:20 DG
  1072. You know, people aren't even looking up. All they care about is TikTok. You know, we're creating potentially dangerous artificial intelligence. You know, I even saw that in my government service.
  1073. 01:16:31 DG
  1074. And I think humanity is kind of stuck right now and we need to change. And this subject is like one of the only unifying.
  1075. 01:16:40 DG
  1076. Ontologically shocking, but I would think generally unifying topics were where, if announced by, you know, the US and other, you know, major powers that have knowledge in a in a controlled manner, that this could change humanity for the better, make us look inside ourselves, become less divisive and care maybe.
  1077. 01:17:00 DG
  1078. Be a little less about superficial things. So. So that's kind of my philosophical motivation to do what I did and yeah, yeah.
  1079. 01:17:11 JR
  1080. And you're confronted with one of the biggest mysteries in in human history. Yeah. Which is are we alone? And it seems like at least some people have the answer.
  1081. 01:17:21 DG
  1082. To that 100%, I mean the people I talked to certainly did and they had close personal.
  1083. 01:17:26 DG
  1084. Knowledge and the Intel reports I read, you know, literally.
  1085. 01:17:31 DG
  1086. Indicated that as well, like I talked about.
  1087. 01:17:34 DG
  1088. And it just so it's like this caste system. I call it dudes with SI clearances do not have an embargo on reality.
  1089. 01:17:42 DG
  1090. So it's a caste system of, you know, people in government and outside of government in the industrial complex that run this stuff under little oversight. And, you know, I remember some of the people who denied us access, they were like, you know.
  1091. 01:17:56 DG
  1092. Know you're talking about, but if I did, why would you have a need to know? And I'm like, well, why did you ever need to know?
  1093. 01:18:04 DG
  1094. You're just some multi * general.
  1095. 01:18:08 JR
  1096. Where you're a.
  1097. 01:18:08 DG
  1098. Human being, you're a human being. You're up better than me, I mean.
  1099. 01:18:12 DG
  1100. Who determines need to know on a humanistic question?
  1101. 01:18:18 DG
  1102. It's like basic fact of life. Why do you? Why are we classifying fact of life at this day and age in 2023? It's insane.
  1103. 01:18:26 JR
  1104. And the answer to that would be national security.
  1105. 01:18:31 DG
  1106. Yeah, it's obtuse. National security, right? So, like, why we classify stuff? It's called executive order 13526, right? Section.
  1107. 01:18:41 DG
  1108. 1.4 sections E&F are why we classify science stuff, why we classify nuclear stuff. It's like a one liner. It's very vague and and you saying this is the these basic facts should be classified. Are you saying that this fits in this bill and you know and and you notice the Schumer amendment. If anybody reads it.
  1109. 01:19:02 DG
  1110. Awkwardly calls out the Atomic Energy Act in 1954, right?
  1111. 01:19:07 DG
  1112. And they're basically treating this as nuclear secrets because it gives off, you know, nuclear radiation. Cause if you look at the ultra vague definition.
  1113. 01:19:21 DG
  1114. Of special nuclear material, which is section 51 of the Atomic Energy Act 1954, it says anything that gives off a sizable amount of Atomic Energy. Literally. That's what it says.
  1115. 01:19:33 DG
  1116. Well, what's sizable and what legal gymnastics are you saying? This stuff, which is obviously not a well, who knows, maybe it is a nuclear weapon. And you're saying this is a US nuclear secret? You're trans. Classifying it into a nuclear secret, which I understand.
  1117. 01:19:52 DG
  1118. Maybe at first, why they did that and I'm not admonishing the hard decisions that Presidents and other folks did.
  1119. 01:19:59 DG
  1120. Many years ago, when this was more of an enigma and we wanted to like lock it down, figure it out, and then see what we're.
  1121. 01:20:05 DG
  1122. Gonna do.
  1123. 01:20:06 DG
  1124. But there's never been a disclosure plan. I always ask that like to these super senior people I've talked to.
  1125. 01:20:12 DG
  1126. Was there a plan?
  1127. 01:20:13 DG
  1128. Any kind of plan at all, and they're like, no, never. We tried to muddy the waters back in there and, you know, tried to put it out there and test the populace but.
  1129. 01:20:26 DG
  1130. You know, there was never any coaching plan. I mean, people think the government is like this fine oiled machine. They have plans for everything. Well, I guess sort of, but like.
  1131. 01:20:36 DG
  1132. It's not. I mean, look at the war on.
  1133. 01:20:37 DG
  1134. Terrorism, we left.
  1135. 01:20:39 DG
  1136. Afghanistan no General Officer Mattis, Petraeus, McChrystal, I call them the failed generals, people allowed them, but really, themselves and the Obama administration, Bush administration. Except, you know, Trump, whatever. Nobody had a coach and plan for success.
  1137. 01:20:55 DG
  1138. And we were fighting people who were.
  1139. 01:20:59 DG
  1140. Much less of an adversary than like our one of our peers or dear peers, so we couldn't even win that war like, what the **** are we doing?
  1141. 01:21:06 DG
  1142. But these protracted, endless wars.
  1143. 01:21:09 DG
  1144. Let's be real. It's good for the industrial complex.
  1145. 01:21:11
  1146. Right.
  1147. 01:21:12 DG
  1148. So and and I'm not, like, admonishing the whole industrial complex for the record, you know, we need national lethality, we need weapons to kill bad guys, because there's evil people in the world. But you got to control.
  1149. 01:21:25 DG
  1150. You know some of it, though, yeah.
  1151. 01:21:27 JR
  1152. Well, that's part of the problem with people that have secrets. It's like once you have secrets and part of your identity is the holder of those secrets. Yeah. And part of the culture of these.
  1153. 01:21:40 JR
  1154. These industries is that they they are the ones that have the.
  1155. 01:21:44 DG
  1156. Access to that. Yeah. And I saw that in conventional, really black programs. I was a part of in my career. It was almost like.
  1157. 01:21:53 DG
  1158. You got that secret society vibe where it's like if you're a career government servant.
  1159. 01:21:59 DG
  1160. Your your salary is not that great, but knowledge is your currency.
  1161. 01:22:03 DG
  1162. And what makes you special? What rice bowl do you control? And I remember getting read into some stuff that like it was.
  1163. 01:22:09 DG
  1164. Like the president?
  1165. 01:22:10 DG
  1166. And very limited number of people getting read into and I was one of them because I was operating a certain thing for a certain op.
  1167. 01:22:17 DG
  1168. And Ohh you're part of the club, you know, like at least 30 people.
  1169. 01:22:22
  1170. Are cleared or.
  1171. 01:22:23 DG
  1172. Whatever. And I'm like, I don't get off on this. It's it's so weird. But like these, like lifers. And I, I hate to, you know, talk to a matter of fact about it. But like, it just, it's kind of disgusting to me because it's like this like.
  1173. 01:22:38 DG
  1174. It's weird. It's just like a weird, like, gnostic cultish thing. And you know, I live that community for 14 years of my.
  1175. 01:22:46 JR
  1176. And people really do enjoy having information that other people don't have access.
  1177. 01:22:49 JR
  1178. To I was like.
  1179. 01:22:50 DG
  1180. I got a secret and like.
  1181. 01:22:52 DG
  1182. That's why a whistleblower. OK, so I know this. She's real. I know. They're we're not alone. We have stuff. No ****. Am I going to sit on my asss for 30-40 years? I'm an old man. I look back like, oh, I had that secret. I knew about it, but I didn't do anything I didn't, so I couldn't just keep that.
  1183. 01:23:12 DG
  1184. Secret because I thought it was just perverse and wrong that the people don't even at least get to know the basics. It's insane.
  1185. 01:23:20 JR
  1186. So when it comes to these, I'm gonna bring it back to these these actual entities, yeah.
  1187. 01:23:26 JR
  1188. Do we know?
  1189. 01:23:27 JR
  1190. Or we do have an understanding of how many of them we're talking about and the variety of them.
  1191. 01:23:33 DG
  1192. Well, yeah, there is a variety and we have a certain number.
  1193. 01:23:37 DG
  1194. Of of different things.
  1195. 01:23:40 DG
  1196. But the like total numbers of like what's interacting with us on Earth, I mean, nobody knows that and I mean.
  1197. 01:23:46 DG
  1198. That that. Yeah.
  1199. 01:23:46 JR
  1200. But there's an understanding of some that they do believe are interacting with us, and there's a variety in terms of there's there's variables.
  1201. 01:23:53 DG
  1202. Yeah, I I talked to people who are familiar with the biological analysis and everything, so we have.
  1203. 01:23:59 DG
  1204. Some idea, not a complete picture, because it's like you know.
  1205. 01:24:03 DG
  1206. You know you're looking at, it's like, well, I don't even understand the physio Physiology at all. It's like, what the heck it's like, way different, right? So.
  1207. 01:24:12 DG
  1208. We have at.
  1209. 01:24:12 JR
  1210. Least a function of this Physiology.
  1211. 01:24:15 DG
  1212. Yeah. No, I was in.
  1213. 01:24:16 DG
  1214. I was in the room.
  1215. 01:24:23 DG
  1216. I'll be careful, I don't want.
  1217. 01:24:26 DG
  1218. I was in Washington, DC with a very number of senior people that work for members of Congress. Put it that way.
  1219. 01:24:35 DG
  1220. When I was still in government and I brought the people who worked on that stuff to the hill, I mean, This is why the Members were so confident to put out the Schumer amendment and stuff. And I was like, please explain. And they went into all those details and stuff, and I remember.
  1221. 01:24:54 DG
  1222. You know some, some of the professional staff members were like, whoa, like like, they were like in G lock. Right, because I mean.
  1223. 01:25:02 DG
  1224. It like a total world bubble.
  1225. 01:25:06 DG
  1226. Got burst right there for a lot of people. And so we we have some idea it's not a complete picture. I mean it's just like, but you're not even bringing in the right the right people like I think about my friend and colleague Doctor Gary Nolan, which I started the sole foundation nonprofit with. I mean he's like.
  1227. 01:25:25 DG
  1228. You know, Nobel level biologist, virologist like, he's the guy that you would want on it, but he's not on it. So I think we could make a lot of progress in our understanding. Once again, if if this is more broadly studied.
  1229. 01:25:41 DG
  1230. In an open environment.
  1231. 01:25:43 JR
  1232. You're aware of the Nixon Jackie Gleason story?
  1233. 01:25:46 DG
  1234. Vaguely I I stayed away from uphold aggy because I had these contemporary people that were inside. I could check every other credentials where they worked, et cetera.
  1235. 01:25:58 DG
  1236. But I I'm vaguely familiar where what was it like? Nixon brought Jackie Gleason to? Yeah.
  1237. 01:26:03 DG
  1238. Facility and showed him some stuff or.
  1239. 01:26:05 DG
  1240. Something like that.
  1241. 01:26:06 JR
  1242. Yeah, supposedly that's the story and it's very it's very hard to determine the origin of this story or whether or not it's real. It came from. There's a story about one article that was supposedly public, was it Vanity Fair?
  1243. 01:26:18 JR
  1244. And you can't find the story, but.
  1245. 01:26:22 JR
  1246. Jackie Gleason, by all accounts, was obsessed with UFO's and even built a home in upstate New York that looked like a flying saucer. Ohh, really? Yeah. This is. This is the house. He had this house constructed supposedly, after he had this meeting with Nixon.
  1247. 01:26:33
  1248. That's just.
  1249. 01:26:42 JR
  1250. When Nixon, supposedly they were drinking.
  1251. 01:26:45 JR
  1252. Jackie Gleason and Nick Nixon are tying one on and Nixon's, like you want to see some **** and they fly to wherever this base is. Yeah, and he shows them these frozen biological entities and this retrieved vehicle and then Jackie Gleason becomes a fanatic, obviously.
  1253. 01:27:05 DG
  1254. That's crazy. Yeah. I mean, not crazy, but. But that's interesting. That a president would do that to.
  1255. 01:27:11 DG
  1256. To like an uncleared celebrity friend of his, like. Oh, let me just show you the most sensitive ship our country has like this.
  1257. 01:27:17 DG
  1258. I don't know.
  1259. 01:27:18 DG
  1260. It's kind of crazy to, yeah.
  1261. 01:27:18 JR
  1262. People are obsessed with celebrity. You know, there's even world leaders, you know, kings and Queens of, you know, they've always been obsessed with famous people. And Jackie Gleason at the time was incredibly famous and also beloved. Right. So this is my pal and.
  1263. 01:27:37 JR
  1264. I'm drunk. You wanna see some?
  1265. 01:27:39 JR
  1266. ****. You know, I get.
  1267. 01:27:41 DG
  1268. It I wanna hang out with Nixon if that's how it was like. Yeah, well, I bet.
  1269. 01:27:44 JR
  1270. He was probably wild. I bet he was like that. Yeah, in a lot of ways, you know, I mean, Hunter S Thompson famously recalled his. Yeah, there's two of them meeting.
  1271. 01:27:52 JR
  1272. Together famously recalled sitting in the back seat of a limo.
  1273. 01:27:57 JR
  1274. With Nixon talking about football and he's like, God, if I didn't think he was a piece of.
  1275. 01:28:01 JR
  1276. ****, I actually kind of like him. That's funny. Yeah, yeah.
  1277. 01:28:03 JR
  1278. Football, you know.
  1279. 01:28:07 JR
  1280. Look, nobody in that job, nobody as the president is gonna be loved by everyone. And I'm sure Nixon has positive qualities. And you know, if Jackie Gleason liked him, I'm I'm a giant Jackie Gleason fan. He's probably probably fun to hang out with. Yeah. And if you're drunk and you know you're the president, and also we're talking about the 1970s.
  1281. 01:28:27 JR
  1282. Right, so this is a different world, you know, like, even if you tell anybody who the ****'* gonna believe you, you don't have, you can't get on TikTok. Like, what are you?
  1283. 01:28:35 JR
  1284. How you gonna get this information out?
  1285. 01:28:37 DG
  1286. Ohh exactly and that's kind of how you know and my personal opinion, you know how the program was protected right for.
  1287. 01:28:43 DG
  1288. Make it crazy, right? So if anybody leaks anything or, you know, has an unauthorized disclosure, yeah, people can think of.
  1289. 01:28:52 JR
  1290. ******* nuts. Of course. Yeah. Yeah, but there are actual reports that we have biological remains.
  1291. 01:29:04 DG
  1292. Yes. Oh, yes, yes. How many? It's up there as well. Just like with the with the retrievals. Yeah.
  1293. 01:29:10 JR
  1294. And they vary. There's different kind.
  1295. 01:29:13 JR
  1296. Do we have an understanding?
  1297. 01:29:16 JR
  1298. You don't have to answer where of where they came from.
  1299. 01:29:21 DG
  1300. Nobody I talked to expelled any specific origin to me. We may know that, but I'm not aware of anything, so I don't know.
  1301. 01:29:29 JR
  1302. Are there reports of some kind of interaction with these things where they're giving information or discussing the the problems of humanity and possible solutions or explaining why they're here?
  1303. 01:29:46 DG
  1304. Interactions was a sensitive subject that my.
  1305. 01:29:51 DG
  1306. Interview subjects did not want to get into.
  1307. 01:29:55 DG
  1308. I suppose that there's probably detailed documentation of those interactions that goes into a lot of the stuff you're asking. I truly don't even know the answer to a lot of.
  1309. 01:30:03 JR
  1310. That so, but is there discussions amongst these people that there have been these sort of meetings?
  1311. 01:30:10 DG
  1312. There there was water cooler talk with some people I talked to on the program.
  1313. 01:30:15 JR
  1314. I love water cooler.
  1315. 01:30:15 DG
  1316. Yeah, they're.
  1317. 01:30:16 DG
  1318. OK bro, guess what I.
  1319. 01:30:17 DG
  1320. Overheard in some weird meeting, you know, right. And but that is the problem with that is it's like secondary information. And I'm so **** retentive unless that per.
  1321. 01:30:24
  1322. Right.
  1323. 01:30:27 DG
  1324. Even told me I had close personal. I touched it. Whatever. Like cool. Well, you're coming to the Inspector General, or I'm gonna at least give them your name, because that's what you told me. And then obviously I did that. So those people who physically were there were on the program, did the thing I brought to the Inspector General.
  1325. 01:30:47 JR
  1326. Are there discussions of interactions with live beings?
  1327. 01:30:48 DG
  1328. But yeah, yeah.
  1329. 01:30:53 DG
  1330. There was some water cooler talk about that kind of thing, but but you know, I I don't even want to get into it because it's like there were some details provided to me, but it's like it's secondary and I I don't know if that's like the telephone game and I don't know if it was hyperbolized in any way, you know, right.
  1331. 01:30:55 JR
  1332. But that's it.
  1333. 01:31:05
  1334. Mm-hmm. Right.
  1335. 01:31:11 DG
  1336. Room, so to speak. So I just, I'm so **** about making sure what I say is accurate. I don't and.
  1337. 01:31:17 DG
  1338. I don't know.
  1339. 01:31:17 JR
  1340. Do. Yeah. Do we have an understand? I mean, if if there have been these discussions?
  1341. 01:31:23 JR
  1342. Do we have an understanding of when they first took place?
  1343. 01:31:27 DG
  1344. Yeah, some specific events were mentioned to me and I provided that information in a classified setting.
  1345. 01:31:33 JR
  1346. And how far back do they go?
  1347. 01:31:36 DG
  1348. Pretty far back. It's pretty weird.
  1349. 01:31:38 JR
  1350. So well, one of the stories from Roswell that's fascinating to me is that Eisenhower had the wreckage flown to Wright Patterson Air Force Base in two separate jets in case one of them crashed.
  1351. 01:31:52 DG
  1352. There has been some public testimony, said General Dubose. There were some old timers that at least, you know, did some videos in like the 90s like I'm I'm Brigadier General, Exxon. Here's what I heard. Whatever. I mean, that's out there in the.
  1353. 01:32:11 DG
  1354. The open source, so yeah.
  1355. 01:32:13 JR
  1356. Yeah. And there was always that discussion.
  1357. 01:32:15 JR
  1358. Of hangar 18.
  1359. 01:32:17 JR
  1360. Right. If you ever hanger 18.
  1361. 01:32:19 DG
  1362. There's a lot of.
  1363. 01:32:19 JR
  1364. Hangers. But that's the what, for whatever reason, I think it was maybe a movie. It was there a movie Hanger 18.
  1365. 01:32:24 DG
  1366. Well, you know, it's, you know what's funny? Speaking of senators being denied, there's a video in the late 80s of Senator Barry Goldwater of Goldwater Nichols Act. Famed right. He was a two star general.
  1367. 01:32:36 DG
  1368. In the Air Force Reserve, and like literally, this video is like on YouTube. It's like hard to find though. But Jesse Michael's an American alchemy put together, I think a short video yesterday. And there's like a section in there where he actually has that Goldwater interview, but General Goldwag.
  1369. 01:32:52 DG
  1370. I was like, yeah, one day I called Curtis Lemay. He's a very famous Air Force general and was like, General, I heard that there's this room that you, you know, have UFO material. And Barry Goldwater espouses in this interview, like, yeah and Lemay got matter matter then. Hell at me and told me never to ******* ask ask about that.
  1371. 01:33:12 DG
  1372. Yeah, I might have added the F word in there just for for fun but.
  1373. 01:33:15 JR
  1374. For fun.
  1375. 01:33:16 DG
  1376. Yeah, yeah, it's bad in the military. Too long. My wife tells me to be careful with my language all the time around.
  1377. 01:33:23 DG
  1378. My niece and nephew so.
  1379. 01:33:26 DG
  1380. But but even Barry Goldwater knew that we had UFO material. He asked General Lemay when he was in the Air Force and general may basically told him to **** ***, and that is.
  1381. 01:33:37 DG
  1382. A literal interview you can.
  1383. 01:33:39 DG
  1384. Google so a lot of this like people.
  1385. 01:33:44 DG
  1386. Disclosing fact of has really been out in the vernacular for a long time, but nobody really cared cause well, everybody was just kind of like desensitized from the whole subject and thought it was wacky. And I'm not the first former government official to confirm that you have Goldwater and all all these other Harry Reid who made.
  1387. 01:34:04 DG
  1388. The same disclosure to The New Yorker a month after I talked to him in person. Yeah. Melon has said stuff, Lou Elizondo said. You know, he believes we have material on. I think it was Tucker Carlson a couple years ago.
  1389. 01:34:07 JR
  1390. Christopher Mellon.
  1391. 01:34:19 DG
  1392. So there's certainly been other officials now I'm just.
  1393. 01:34:23 DG
  1394. Trying to spike the football and take it all the way to the end zone here and and luckily we have a Congress that's mostly motivated minus Mike Rogers and Mike Turner. You're on, you're you're getting coal in your stockings. I'm going to make sure your office gets cool and.
  1395. 01:34:40 DG
  1396. You know, they they want change too, and they realize it's time for a change, and presumably, you know, Chuck Schumer's talked to.
  1397. 01:34:49 DG
  1398. You know Jake Sullivan and President Biden and you know who's in the White House right now is John Podesta. He is the green energies are or something like that in the White House. But, you know, John Podesta shout out to John Podesta in the.
  1399. 01:35:05 DG
  1400. White House he.
  1401. 01:35:07 DG
  1402. Has an axe to grind on this issue too.
  1403. 01:35:09 DG
  1404. Because remember, he tweeted at the end of Obama's second term. You know, my biggest failure was not to have Obama.
  1405. 01:35:17 DG
  1406. Released the UFO file and made the same kind of statement with Clinton. So certainly if Mr. Podesta is listening in the White House, you know, I'm here to help. You know, I hope that you're championing this within the Executive office of the President and you know, the other Speaking of people like Goldwater who have made.
  1407. 01:35:36 DG
  1408. Some weird non sequitur kind of admissions. There's a.
  1409. 01:35:40 DG
  1410. John Stossel interview of Mike Pompeo, the former CIA director.
  1411. 01:35:46 DG
  1412. About two years ago or so you can find it online, where Pompeo talks about the JFK file and like, dismisses it or something about like, there's no boogeyman here, but then he, he quickly says Ohh, I've seen the UFO file too and we have bigger problems. But for at least the way it was.
  1413. 01:36:06 DG
  1414. Edited. John Stossel didn't even follow up, at least the way the final cut was. I'm like, dude, if I was.
  1415. 01:36:12 DG
  1416. John Stossel, I've been.
  1417. 01:36:12 DG
  1418. Like, what do you mean, Mike Pompeo?
  1419. 01:36:12 JR
  1420. Right. What does that mean?
  1421. 01:36:15 DG
  1422. You've seen the UFO file.
  1423. 01:36:16 DG
  1424. People and we have bigger problems and UFO file. The way I interpret that is a long existing file or briefing document or something that he had access to. So I think I think the former CIA director Mike Pompeo should probably clarify what he said two years ago next to.
  1425. 01:36:36 DG
  1426. If anybody interviews him.
  1427. 01:36:37 DG
  1428. Next, ask Mike that question. What did he mean?
  1429. 01:36:41 JR
  1430. Yeah. Yeah, we have bigger problems. Well, we certainly have bigger problems in terms of our current existence, specifically with what you were talking about earlier.
  1431. 01:36:49 JR
  1432. The proxy wars and collapse of society.
  1433. 01:36:49 DG
  1434. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
  1435. 01:36:51 JR
  1436. Already as we know it, which just seems.
  1437. 01:36:54 DG
  1438. Yeah, I mean the, I mean.
  1439. 01:36:55 DG
  1440. I I feel for.
  1441. 01:36:56 DG
  1442. The Ukrainian and the Israeli people, you know, I'm not taking any particular side but certainly.
  1443. 01:37:03 DG
  1444. People forget US aid in these wars. What's the like? Most expensive thing? If you've studied phases of conflict, it's the reconstruction costs after the conflict. So we in it for like.
  1445. 01:37:14 DG
  1446. Triple digit billions like the War on Terror, I mean, certainly the Israeli conflict is a great distraction cause, you know, like Russia is very tight with Iran, right. And personal opinion. You know, this is just my own personal opinion, but I, you know, I'm sure they.
  1447. 01:37:31 DG
  1448. Commiserated and was like, can you start A2 front war? Cause we would like to win in Ukraine and.
  1449. 01:37:37 DG
  1450. This will distract the US because Israel is a long time, you know, Middle East ally, so.
  1451. 01:37:43 JR
  1452. Certainly distracting.
  1453. 01:37:43 DG
  1454. It it's brilliant. It's brilliant.
  1455. 01:37:45 JR
  1456. Yeah, I mean the, the, the virtue signalers on social media have essentially completely forgotten about Ukraine. You know, it's it's all about Israel and Palestine.
  1457. 01:37:56 DG
  1458. Yeah, you don't even see it. And and I understand, you know what the National Security Council determination was that they've discussed publicly where there's kind of like trying to drain.
  1459. 01:38:05 DG
  1460. Russia's, you know, military capability and.
  1461. 01:38:10 DG
  1462. Annexation of Ukrainian territory because they don't want Russian spheres, sphere of influence to further enter that caucus region and stuff. But yeah, it's funny. Like you said, it's like you don't even talk about Ukraine. It's all about Israel now and the there's a horrible conflict on both sides. Like it's just it's unfortunate.
  1463. 01:38:30 JR
  1464. So without a doubt, yeah, it's that. It was a very interesting statement though that we have bigger problems.
  1465. 01:38:37 JR
  1466. So even if we do, this seems to be like a A.
  1467. 01:38:41 JR
  1468. This is such a human question because it's one of the biggest mysteries. Obviously. You know, there's the Fermi paradox. Where are they? Right. If you, if you look out and if you look out into the cosmos. Yeah. If you've ever gone on a clear night and you look out and you realize those are All Stars and those stars are all surrounded by planets and there's literally.
  1469. 01:39:01 JR
  1470. Hundreds of billions of them in this Galaxy, yeah.
  1471. 01:39:03 DG
  1472. Yeah, the Drake equation. You could calculate what probable sentient life.
  1473. 01:39:08 DG
  1474. And I've been an amateur astronomer since I've been a kid, and I've never crazy enough. I've never seen anything remarkable. I've seen some stuff that could have been ball lightning and some satellite passes that weren't registered online. What you can you could actually check to see if it's going to be like a radium flare or something like that.
  1475. 01:39:28 DG
  1476. That maybe that was a satellite pass, maybe not. But I've never seen in.
  1477. 01:39:32 DG
  1478. My personal life.
  1479. 01:39:34 DG
  1480. Never seen anything weird and it's funny you mentioned the Fermi paradox and it's like.
  1481. 01:39:40 DG
  1482. Well, where are?
  1483. 01:39:40 DG
  1484. They and OK, well, you know, if you're sentient life, you're certainly going to have sophisticated cover, concealment and deception techniques. It goes back to like what Jacques Valley's work is, where, you know, the phenomenon presenting itself in different ways.
  1485. 01:39:55 DG
  1486. But also I live in the mountains of Colorado, right? So there is a Mountain Lion den about 10 miles from my house.
  1487. 01:40:02 DG
  1488. In Colorado, literally, you know I am there are lower predatory sentience. I'm higher predatory sentience and I'm using this as a device or an analogy for NHI and US.
  1489. 01:40:16 DG
  1490. Well, I don't on a day-to-day basis. I don't care what a Mountain Lion is doing. I may hike in that area to explore, but day-to-day I'm afraid of it and I don't care and think about what humans might be.
  1491. 01:40:32 DG
  1492. He unfortunately to some of these higher Sentients where this monkey has a nuke. Holy ****. Keep them in the cage. We don't want to go anywhere near them. And so people think that there would be some kind of open contact with some higher sentience that is either visiting Earth or from another.
  1493. 01:40:50 DG
  1494. Dimension or whatever the origin is.
  1495. 01:40:53 DG
  1496. But they probably don't care.
  1497. 01:40:56 DG
  1498. They're probably neutral at best, and maybe actually fearful.
  1499. 01:40:59 DG
  1500. Of us in some sense.
  1501. 01:41:01 DG
  1502. Or were the progeny of, you know, personal opinion, progeny of some experiments, and the it's almost like living in the matrix. But it's not like an actual simulation. It's like we want the simulation to go. We don't want to intercede because we want to see what, you know, homosexuality and SAPIEN 2 dot O is going to do after the great.
  1503. 01:41:21
  1504. Right.
  1505. 01:41:21 DG
  1506. Blood or something like that, right? Yeah, yeah.
  1507. 01:41:22 JR
  1508. You know, that's one of the more fascinating ideas is that we're some sort of a product of genetic engineering.
  1509. 01:41:31 DG
  1510. I honestly would not be surprised.
  1511. 01:41:34 DG
  1512. I don't know.
  1513. 01:41:34 JR
  1514. We're so different. We're so different than everything else is here, so different, so beyond. Different. I mean, there's not another primate that is is even reasonably close. I mean, if you you, there's speculation amongst primatologists and there's a not even speculation they believe that.
  1515. 01:41:34 DG
  1516. That to be true, but yeah.
  1517. 01:41:54 JR
  1518. Chimpanzees, in particular, have entered into the stone.
  1519. 01:41:57 JR
  1520. Age so that they're at the beginning of the Stone Age. They're using tools, you know, and there's obviously some learned behavior. Like there's some footage of orangutans using Spears to hunt fish with. Ohh. Interesting. Yeah. No, it's.
  1521. 01:42:09 JR
  1522. There's an orangutan that's hanging on a branch over a river, or a body of water, and he's stabbing at fish.
  1523. 01:42:18 DG
  1524. Yeah, yeah.
  1525. 01:42:22 JR
  1526. With spear, huh?
  1527. 01:42:23 JR
  1528. Which is incredible. I mean, they're using tools. I mean, we know they use tools to extract, you know, termites and the like. Look.
  1529. 01:42:31 JR
  1530. At that I mean.
  1531. 01:42:32 DG
  1532. That's crazy, yeah.
  1533. 01:42:33 JR
  1534. How crazy is that? I mean, he's clearly hunting.
  1535. 01:42:36 JR
  1536. I mean, he's going fishing in Borneo.
  1537. 01:42:40 JR
  1538. I mean that that is, you know, at the very least, a distant cousin of us.
  1539. 01:42:48 JR
  1540. Some, you know, intelligent primate that is to to figure out a way to use tools. How long would it take an orangutan to become a human being? How many millions of years are we talking about of evolution? But it seems to be that process.
  1541. 01:43:01 JR
  1542. Has started, but why are we so ******* different?
  1543. 01:43:04 JR
  1544. Everything else.
  1545. 01:43:04 DG
  1546. Yeah, like, are we a product?
  1547. 01:43:06 DG
  1548. Of Darwinian evolution, or what is it?
  1549. 01:43:08 DG
  1550. Punctuated equilibrium is obviously another theory, and I'm not a anthropologist by any means. You know, I watched some Netflix episodes.
  1551. 01:43:15 DG
  1552. But YouTube? But yeah, we, we.
  1553. 01:43:15 JR
  1554. Yeah, me too.
  1555. 01:43:18 DG
  1556. Seem to be oddly advanced, advanced and.
  1557. 01:43:23 DG
  1558. We seem to just possess other skills. I mean, he goes back to like the Stargate program, right? You know, with the declassified by Clinton and sensibly cancelled, I guess in 96.
  1559. 01:43:35 DG
  1560. You know where you have people trained in remote viewing and and like.
  1561. 01:43:38 DG
  1562. There was feedback loops to confirm what they saw was real, and either satellite imagery or human sources where they sketched out a room of where there's hostages and the they got a hostage out and they're like and this.
  1563. 01:43:50 DG
  1564. Is a real story actually.
  1565. 01:43:51 DG
  1566. And they're and they're.
  1567. 01:43:52 DG
  1568. Like, did you have a source in that room? How do you know where all the corridors were and everything? I was like? No. Actually, Pat Price, remote viewed you. And he's like, what the ****? So.
  1569. 01:44:03 DG
  1570. There's something going on there and and that's like a Gary Nolan, you know, has studied a lot of this stuff, very famously. He's pointed out the caught 8 pertain him in the brain rides this horseshoe shaped thing in the middle of your brain.
  1571. 01:44:17 DG
  1572. That if he's done MRI's and CAT scans and I hope I'm not butchering his work, Gary might, you know, slap me later. But.
  1573. 01:44:25 DG
  1574. It lights up with people who have those kind of skills. They have, like, an overactive.
  1575. 01:44:31 DG
  1576. Caught. I pertain him in the brain and.
  1577. 01:44:32 DG
  1578. It's like, OK, well.
  1579. 01:44:34 DG
  1580. Is it a transceiver of some sort? I'm guessing?
  1581. 01:44:36 DG
  1582. That's the case, is it?
  1583. 01:44:37 JR
  1584. Emerging property of human beings.
  1585. 01:44:38 DG
  1586. Yeah, exactly. And we're seeing just a few human beings that have this stuff. And then if if it is a transceiver.
  1587. 01:44:39 JR
  1588. As we evolve.
  1589. 01:44:47 DG
  1590. Where is the information? Is it in a higher spatial dimension or how are they extracting? How are they able to basically be non locality right? They're able to like project to themselves somehow their consciousness.
  1591. 01:45:02 DG
  1592. To A and then. This is a declassified example from Stargate Russian missile base.
  1593. 01:45:08 DG
  1594. Sketch the crane and the where the silos are what the status is.
  1595. 01:45:13 DG
  1596. You know, satellite comes over, takes a picture, and it's exactly the way they sketched it. How did they do that? Like, it's certainly real real because there is a feedback loop. Now there's a lot of charlatans in the psychic space and all that. But, like, at least that government program, and I've talked to, you know, how put off and people who actually ran.
  1597. 01:45:33 DG
  1598. That program at Sri for the CIA, then DIA in the army. And that seems to be the men whose staring at goats, right, the George Clooney movies. The famous movie based on the Stargate program.
  1599. 01:45:46 DG
  1600. Seems to be legit as far as we can measure from a feedback perspective, yeah.
  1601. 01:45:50 JR
  1602. What was the explanation for the discontinuation of that program?
  1603. 01:45:54 DG
  1604. Ohh gosh, I'm not a scholar on that that something Russell Targ or Hal put off or.
  1605. 01:46:01 DG
  1606. One of those.
  1607. 01:46:02 DG
  1608. Guys could explain if it was just it got caught up in the bureaucracy or or what, I don't remember.
  1609. 01:46:09 JR
  1610. Yeah. Yeah. So the the idea of that being an emergent property of of human beings as we evolve is always been fascinating to me because there's, there's certainly something.
  1611. 01:46:21 JR
  1612. That goes on with human communication. Other than we make sounds that represent objects and physical things, and that the other person interprets those sounds and understands it.
  1613. 01:46:32 JR
  1614. There's communication between human beings.
  1615. 01:46:35 DG
  1616. That's acoustic communication, like the symbol rate, if you will, is really slow, like if you were able to consciously communicate, you know, AKA you know the hockey term like telepathy, right?
  1617. 01:46:48 DG
  1618. And it's funny, because that's what a lot of people espouse that have had, you know, alleged contacts, right, a lot of the people that Doctor John Mack at hard.
  1619. 01:46:59 DG
  1620. Studied over the years where they felt like they were getting hit with like a.
  1621. 01:47:02 DG
  1622. QR code it.
  1623. 01:47:04 DG
  1624. Was like instant knowledge or they heard?
  1625. 01:47:08 DG
  1626. Like somebody speaking to them nonverbally in some way that they couldn't even conceptualize through, you know, acoustic communication or talk, if you will. And it's the same thing like.
  1627. 01:47:19 DG
  1628. Book proof of heaven by Doctor Eben Alexander, MD. I remember reading when I was in Afghanistan and I was like, this is like crazy experience. This medical doctor has necrotizing fatty fasciitis of.
  1629. 01:47:28 DG
  1630. Brain is a near death experience and he gets this like crazy. Like the feelings of love, other stuff. It's a really interesting book. It's like a scientific take on a doctor's own near death experience.
  1631. 01:47:40 DG
  1632. But when he came back and somehow the fasciitis didn't eat away his brain and he was cognitively normal, he tried to write down.
  1633. 01:47:51 DG
  1634. What information or facts of the universe he learned during his NDE and he couldn't even put it in English. It was like crazy. He didn't know how to.
  1635. 01:48:00 DG
  1636. Made it.
  1637. 01:48:02 DG
  1638. Into our language it was just. There was no like adjectives. If you were adverbs, et cetera, that could describe the knowledge that he knew like natively when he had that near death experience. It's a really fascinating book and he talks about the disease he had and his physiological condition at the time. Really interesting.
  1639. 01:48:21 JR
  1640. What was he able to discern?
  1641. 01:48:23 JR
  1642. From that, like what was? What was the overall message?
  1643. 01:48:25 DG
  1644. Yeah, it was like this. Like the, you know, this the message of love, which so that's that's pause. But it was like this interconnectedness everybody is kind of connected in a way that's.
  1645. 01:48:39 DG
  1646. They don't really realize. I mean, you think about this is getting really trippy. Lot of thoughts with people who are smarter than me. I like to talk to them about this kind of stuff. Where?
  1647. 01:48:50 DG
  1648. If you're say you know a higher dimensional sentience, right, the act of creation, so act of creation for 3D beings is having a baby, right? It's producing another three-dimensional object.
  1649. 01:49:01 DG
  1650. Or if you're in five dimensional space or even I guess 4 dimensional physical space, what if act of Creation is creating other conscious realities and other universes, and the act of creation?
  1651. 01:49:13 DG
  1652. Is creating the universe where?
  1653. 01:49:17 DG
  1654. You, me, Jamie, whatever we might be connected to the same.
  1655. 01:49:23 DG
  1656. I'll call it universal consciousness or a higher dimensional.
  1657. 01:49:29 DG
  1658. Sentient life force or life form. I know that sounds like really out there, but when you think about it.
  1659. 01:49:36 DG
  1660. There's a lot of other theologies out there that basically expels that. I have a very good friend of mine who's a PhD level kind of higher up in the Mormon church, and basically the Mormon theology.
  1661. 01:49:47 DG
  1662. It's kind of like that the Mormons say you were once with God or like God, but then you were sent down to like a lower plane of existence. And that's literally what I'm talking about right now. But just in a secular sense. So maybe, yeah, we're all created beings from and this, you know, this doesn't like hurt Christian theology. Whatever. It's actually kind of enforce.
  1663. 01:50:08 DG
  1664. Thing the fact there's a creator and we're literally created in the image of a creator, literally.
  1665. 01:50:14 DG
  1666. And that's kind of what life really is. It's like, think about it's like a weird 3D plus time temporal sensory experience for a higher dimensional sentience. You're here to experience time in this weird linear fashion and to experience.
  1667. 01:50:32 DG
  1668. Yourself, divorced from yourself to gain knowledge and to report back.
  1669. 01:50:38 DG
  1670. Is maybe what life is, and that's just kind of my own personal theology.
  1671. 01:50:43 DG
  1672. As the summation of just.
  1673. 01:50:45 DG
  1674. During COVID was really born and and and that's.
  1675. 01:50:46 JR
  1676. Yeah, every hour. Well, I.
  1677. 01:50:47 DG
  1678. What I was looking at, yeah, yeah.
  1679. 01:50:51 JR
  1680. I extrapolate that to the creation of AI.
  1681. 01:50:54 JR
  1682. And I think if you think about human beings as something that creates things, I think ultimately we create a new.
  1683. 01:51:01 DG
  1684. Life. Exactly what if higher sentience is creating some kind of artificial intelligence, you know, call it like a commander data from Star Trek Next Gen. right. Not even really. It's made in the image of the creator in some sense.
  1685. 01:51:13
  1686. Right.
  1687. 01:51:14 DG
  1688. But it's not even, and that's what might get sent.
  1689. 01:51:18 DG
  1690. Into these like long endurance.
  1691. 01:51:21 DG
  1692. You know, missions and of course, you know people like, well, why would they, you know, come here so far to crash, et cetera? Or are they crashing on purpose? Do you know that for a fact or are they crashing by accident? And what if they're like?
  1693. 01:51:37 DG
  1694. Like von Neumann replicating probes right, you can Google that, but you know what? If they're just throw away which volume and probes are just like throw away spacecraft like.
  1695. 01:51:47 DG
  1696. We just we send it out, we don't really care what the mission success is or they're seeding us or as Jacques Valley says, it's like, you know, here's the key. Can you unlock the cage kind of thing?
  1697. 01:51:59 JR
  1698. Right. Yeah. And it seems that it would be a long. I mean, if you think about biological evolution, so long, lengthy process.
  1699. 01:52:00
  1700. So yeah.
  1701. 01:52:08 JR
  1702. And if ultimately that led us to the creation of a technology that's far superior in terms of its capabilities of understanding and thinking, that seems to be what's happening. And that's one of the reasons why so many people.
  1703. 01:52:21 JR
  1704. Are concerned about the term. Artificial intelligence is a very strange term because it's not artificial.
  1705. 01:52:27 JR
  1706. It's intelligence. It's silicon based at a carbon based right. It's just it doesn't have blood and tissue and cells, but it has something that's superior but also something that's much more scalable, right? We're we have a very obvious biological limitation in terms of evolution. You know, if you look at evolution and we turn back to the.
  1707. 01:52:47 JR
  1708. Rang 10s that are fish.
  1709. 01:52:49 JR
  1710. They're obviously learning new things and those new properties for those new things we assume will be encoded in their genetics and then passed to their children. Do you?
  1711. 01:52:58 DG
  1712. Have children? No. I have three dogs, we.
  1713. 01:53:01 DG
  1714. Want the fluffy if I'm a?
  1715. 01:53:02 DG
  1716. Fluffy dad. Yeah.
  1717. 01:53:04 JR
  1718. This promise dogs don't learn from what they do, but one of the most bizarre things about children is that they have properties that are clearly it's hard to say, right, because my children obviously have the example of my wife and myself.
  1719. 01:53:06
  1720. Oh yeah.
  1721. 01:53:08
  1722. Yeah, yeah.
  1723. 01:53:22 JR
  1724. And they obviously see.
  1725. 01:53:24 JR
  1726. A lot of how we live our life.
  1727. 01:53:26 JR
  1728. And you know, discipline and hard work and creativity and all those things. But there's also, they seem to have gifts.
  1729. 01:53:35 JR
  1730. That are they seem to be clearly genetic. Yeah, and artistic gifts that just seem extraordinary, that are unusual that I had when I was younger, that I was an illustrator. I have a a young daughter that's just.
  1731. 01:53:49 DG
  1732. Extraordinarily good at art, really used to illustrate, huh. Interest.
  1733. 01:53:51 JR
  1734. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was. That's what I wanted to.
  1735. 01:53:54 JR
  1736. Do I wanted to be a comic book illustrator? It's not really.
  1737. 01:53:55 DG
  1738. Oh, interesting. Interesting. Yeah.
  1739. 01:53:59 JR
  1740. Then I have this other daughter that's super gifted, athletically, like she can learn things really quickly. It's extraordinary. It's and it's weird. And and also this drive that she has. I had a drive from poverty and from, you know, a lot of like stuff that was wrong with my childhood that seemed to be.
  1741. 01:54:18 JR
  1742. I had this need to prove.
  1743. 01:54:20 JR
  1744. Myself, she doesn't have any of those problems, but she also has this insane drive. It's weird. It's a weird discipline. It's extraordinary. That seems to be very different than most kids. And I I just think that's an emerging genetic. I think there's something encoded in whatever you are as a human that as you replicate.
  1745. 01:54:42 JR
  1746. And as you have children, they have that they have some of that. Yeah, you know and.
  1747. 01:54:48 JR
  1748. I think that is this process, this biological evolutionary process with human.
  1749. 01:54:56 JR
  1750. But it's there's so much chaos, there's so much. I mean, you could breed with a dumb person. You could find a a hot dumb.
  1751. 01:55:02 JR
  1752. Yeah, I'm a baby with them, right? Kids ******. And then we see that there's, like, there's obviously some people are just born with brains that just don't work that well. It's just like, I'm sure you've met some dull minded people and you try to talk to them about things and there's no one.
  1753. 01:55:16 JR
  1754. There you right. So OK, good luck and good luck with whatever children you have and whatever. What? What? What are they gonna?
  1755. 01:55:23 JR
  1756. Have what? What tools there?
  1757. 01:55:23 DG
  1758. Well, the more genetic. Yeah. We're genetically encoding artificial intelligence now. Kind of, I think.
  1759. 01:55:28 DG
  1760. That's where you were going. Yeah, yeah.
  1761. 01:55:29 JR
  1762. Yeah. What I'm going with is that like these biological limitations that we have, it's it's very clear that we're essentially dealing with.
  1763. 01:55:36 JR
  1764. Model T as opposed to a Tesla, which is just insanely superior to these ancient vehicles. Yeah, we we create technology. I've always said this. If you looked at the human race, if you were some sort of an outside observer and you stumbled upon this, this thing that occupies this planet, this, this apex predator of this planet.
  1765. 01:55:57 JR
  1766. He would say, what is this thing doing? Well, it's making technology all the other things that.
  1767. 01:56:01 JR
  1768. Does it does all these other things and also but what are these things generally motivate? What do they move towards? They move towards the advancement of technology and innovation that is a constant aspect of human beings. If you trace this back to the earliest civilizations, to what we have today, things.
  1769. 01:56:21 JR
  1770. Constantly improve unless something goes horribly wrong, unless there's some sort of a natural disaster or some sort of a, you know, genocide. If something doesn't happen to these creatures, what do they do? They consistently make better.
  1771. 01:56:35 JR
  1772. The things well that if you extrapolate, if you follow that to its natural progression, well, what is that going to get to? Well, once they've invented computers and once they've invented devices and once they've invented things that enhance their personal understanding of the world around them, which we already have now with phones we already have with the Internet, we already have with our ability to communicate with each other, we are.
  1773. 01:56:56 JR
  1774. The the newest latest Android phones that are coming out.
  1775. 01:57:00 JR
  1776. Will translate natively on your phone in real time in conversation, so you could be speaking Portuguese to me. I would hear it in English.
  1777. 01:57:10 JR
  1778. On a phone call, which is ******* wild. Yes, yes. Literally literally. Well, that that is a real thing now without having to use Google Translate. It's native to the latest Android operating.
  1779. 01:57:12 DG
  1780. That's crazy. That's like Universal Translator Star Trek. Literally.
  1781. 01:57:15 DG
  1782. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
  1783. 01:57:25 JR
  1784. You you could autumn if you just sit down and said, well, where's that going? Well, it's going to something way more sophisticated and way more capable than we are biologically with our limitations. The, our, our monkey bodies, we are the ancestors or the the, the, the, the people that.
  1785. 01:57:45 JR
  1786. Emerged from that distant cousin, that orangutan, that's using a stick to hunt fish.
  1787. 01:57:50 JR
  1788. Where we're going in this direction, what would be the most?
  1789. 01:57:54 JR
  1790. Logical way we would.
  1791. 01:57:56 JR
  1792. Completely accelerate that. We create something that does what we do, but does it.
  1793. 01:58:00 DG
  1794. Way better? Yeah, it's almost like the permanently harbor our consciousness eventually, right?
  1795. 01:58:04 JR
  1796. And there's.
  1797. 01:58:05 DG
  1798. All this sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
  1799. 01:58:06 JR
  1800. Right. It does make sense. And there's a sort of understanding of that.
  1801. 01:58:10 JR
  1802. That leads to this.
  1803. 01:58:10 JR
  1804. Fear of our demise, that everyone you know, Elon's openly discussed this, this Sam Altman and I were talking about it.
  1805. 01:58:19 JR
  1806. Would open AI is doing what ChatGPT 4 versus ChatGPT 5 which is gonna be insanely superior? Well, what does chat GBD 15 gonna do? You know? Is that gonna be the president of the world? You know, like what? What are we going to bypass government and just say, you know, it's it's obvious like this administration is incredibly corrupt and.
  1807. 01:58:41 JR
  1808. Flawed and influenced by the military industrial complex, it's not good for the world. It's not good for the.
  1809. 01:58:45 JR
  1810. Government, we need something that is far superior, that doesn't have all these motivations. Hmm. And what would that be? That would be an artificial intelligent creator that we or or or creation rather that we use to govern life. Yeah. I mean, that sounds nuts, but I think that's probably a better solution than humans with all.
  1811. 01:59:05 JR
  1812. Of our *******.
  1813. 01:59:06 JR
  1814. Laws and issues and greed and envy and all the things that we have.
  1815. 01:59:10 JR
  1816. That that would be a better version of it, but what are we saying then? Are we saying that we're we're?
  1817. 01:59:16 DG
  1818. We're feeling like empathy into it, though, you know?
  1819. 01:59:18 JR
  1820. Well, probably not, probably not, which is terrifying. But we will become obsolete and or we will merge, and if we merge, it will completely change what we are. Hmm. And I think that's very likely what's going to take place. I think the initial stages will be some sort of a merging.
  1821. 01:59:19 DG
  1822. Like it was just. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
  1823. 01:59:38 JR
  1824. With technology and then from that merging.
  1825. 01:59:42 JR
  1826. It will, essentially, we'll realize well why we even ******* around like this. This new thing is so superior, and it doesn't have all the pitfalls. It doesn't have all the problems. It's not short sighted. It's not gonna drain the ocean of fish so that we we can make sushi. It's gonna do something. It's gonna be far more. Mm-hmm. Far more aware of.
  1827. 02:00:02 JR
  1828. All of the different effects of each individual act and how we affect everything around us and what is net positive and what is net negative and how to avoid all these things. I I I really firmly believe that we are.
  1829. 02:00:19 JR
  1830. This biological Caterpillar that is making a cocoon to create the electronic butterfly, and we don't even know what we're doing while we're doing it. We're just doing it and I think materialism is also baked into.
  1831. 02:00:31 JR
  1832. That one of.
  1833. 02:00:32 JR
  1834. The main problems with human beings in terms of like the ridiculousness of our actions we're so materialistic, people are constantly.
  1835. 02:00:39 JR
  1836. Wanting to get the newest, latest, greatest thing, what's the motivation behind that other than social status? Well, the motivation is that that's what that's what fuels innovation. If you do like if we all just stopped right now.
  1837. 02:00:51 JR
  1838. It said hey, you know what?
  1839. 02:00:53 JR
  1840. IPhone 15 is pretty ******* dope. We don't need to make new iPhones. Let's just keep fixing those and just like, exist the way we are right now and let's clean up the air and let's clean up the ocean. Let's clean up the sea and clean up the rivers and clean up the the forest. Like, let's just fix the.
  1841. 02:01:08 JR
  1842. Earth. Yeah, and.
  1843. 02:01:09 JR
  1844. Then no, we don't do that. We no, I want iPhone 16, you know, when when.
  1845. 02:01:13 JR
  1846. Is the iPhone gonna be able to communicate?
  1847. 02:01:14 JR
  1848. Completely just with satellites I don't have.
  1849. 02:01:16 JR
  1850. To worry about cell phone signal.
  1851. 02:01:17 DG
  1852. Well, it's almost like a drug addiction, right? They did studies where people receiving in text messages is the dopamine rush too. So it's like it's almost like an artificial.
  1853. 02:01:26 DG
  1854. Drug addiction you're fueling cause you want the more responsive tech, more integrating with your make easier so you can get your fix quicker and more efficiently or something like that. I.
  1855. 02:01:38 DG
  1856. Don't know. I mean, yeah, yeah.
  1857. 02:01:38 JR
  1858. Right, and why? Well, I mean, why would ******* staring at a stupid cell phone give you a dopamine rush? Well, it does.
  1859. 02:01:45 DG
  1860. It does add it does. I'm. Yeah. I'm not a biologist. I don't know why it does. Yeah.
  1861. 02:01:47 JR
  1862. And you get addicted to your ******* phones. And then why would it be that we would innovate and create things like Instagram and TikTok that are insanely addictive?
  1863. 02:01:59 JR
  1864. To the point where you looked down and you've spent three hours staring at nothing. Nonsense. Like what? What? Why is that? Well, that it ensures continual use of this device until it lures you into this ultimate integration. Well.
  1865. 02:02:12 DG
  1866. Right. Well, they, there's people at meta, I guess now or Facebook. You know where they actually have a whole team of scientists on how to make their apps more addictive. Right, so.
  1867. 02:02:22 JR
  1868. Demons, yeah.
  1869. 02:02:24 JR
  1870. ******* demons.
  1871. 02:02:24 DG
  1872. Yeah, I don't. I don't use social media. I have never tweeted in my life or I mean, I have like a I I use Facebook back in the day when it first it first came out when I was going to college. I yeah, I don't have Instagram. I've never tweeted in my life. I I don't intend to cause you don't want to get sucked into that mind virus.
  1873. 02:02:27 JR
  1874. Really. That's amazing.
  1875. 02:02:37 JR
  1876. I wonder if I would.
  1877. 02:02:44 DG
  1878. Which is like people responding you and you have to feel like you have to respond back. I don't even. Yeah, I.
  1879. 02:02:50 DG
  1880. Don't even touch it so.
  1881. 02:02:51 JR
  1882. Well, I'm very aware of those traps, so I don't. I don't do that. I don't. I used to. But many years ago, I stopped interacting with people cause I just realized like.
  1883. 02:03:01 JR
  1884. Overall, it's negative. Like there's positive aspects to it. It's great for people that like you and their fans. It's great too that you're you're an actual human, that you interact occasionally. I'll comment on a post like, that's really awesome. Congratulations, that kind of stuff. But then I get the **** out of there, and I don't read any responses, and I found that that's the very best way to mitigate all the negative aspects.
  1885. 02:03:21 JR
  1886. Of social media. But then you're also dealing with algorithms. You're you're dealing with things that recognize what makes you more likely to engage. And so those things are constantly showing you the things that you engage.
  1887. 02:03:33 JR
  1888. And you know, it's not necessarily even positive. It's just it's just whatever you engage with, that's what's coming your way. Whether it could be cool stuff like maybe you're just like really into muscle cars and it shows you a lot of.
  1889. 02:03:43 JR
  1890. Muscle cars or it?
  1891. 02:03:44 JR
  1892. Could be like murder.
  1893. 02:03:46 JR
  1894. Like I see a lot of.
  1895. 02:03:47 JR
  1896. Murder on.
  1897. 02:03:48 JR
  1898. Yeah, yeah, I'm crazy. Much hurt.
  1899. 02:03:50 DG
  1900. Yeah, I'm a car guy, so like my feed is like ohh, do you ever think about this?
  1901. 02:03:54 DG
  1902. Mod for your Ford Bronco, yeah.
  1903. 02:03:55 DG
  1904. Lights look nice. I'm.
  1905. 02:03:57 DG
  1906. Gonna wire that **** up.
  1907. 02:03:58 JR
  1908. Yeah. So I get those too. Yeah. Yeah, I have a problem with that. I have a.
  1909. 02:04:00 DG
  1910. It's bad.
  1911. 02:04:03 DG
  1912. A car problem? Yeah. My wife doesn't allow me to have the the good stuff anymore, so I have to.
  1913. 02:04:08 DG
  1914. You know, keep it under a certain.
  1915. 02:04:09 DG
  1916. Price. That's good.
  1917. 02:04:11 JR
  1918. That's good. I I'm more actually interested in old stuff than I am in.
  1919. 02:04:14 JR
  1920. New stuff, I mean.
  1921. 02:04:15 DG
  1922. Yeah. You like, like rat rod stuff, right?
  1923. 02:04:17 JR
  1924. Well, I like muscle cars like this very specifically, 1960s muscle cars. Those are my favorite because what they are to me.
  1925. 02:04:23 JR
  1926. Is it's a toy that you could drive? Yeah. It's like a ride that gives me immense pleasure to just drive around. And it's really fun. I don't even have to go fast. It's just going.
  1927. 02:04:35 JR
  1928. Around in a 1970 Chevelle just driving it it just it, it's hard to describe for someone who has never experienced it, but it's just it's just so engaging and it's like you're on this drug.
  1929. 02:04:48 JR
  1930. It's like everything you feel, all of it, and you're engaging all of these senses.
  1931. 02:04:57 DG
  1932. See, it's very tactile, very mechanical. And yeah, I totally understand that. I mean, the only kind of old cars I like are like the.
  1933. 02:05:03 DG
  1934. Black Lincoln, Lincoln Continental suicide doors from the matrix. I remember seeing that when I was a teen, when the matrix came out.
  1935. 02:05:05 JR
  1936. Yeah. Ohh yeah.
  1937. 02:05:10 DG
  1938. I'm like that car.
  1939. 02:05:10 DG
  1940. 'S ******. Yeah, it's like, totally. I went like to have whatever Morpheus drove, you know, so, yeah.
  1941. 02:05:14 JR
  1942. They're art. They're essentially art. It's it's, it's it's functional art, like you could. It's a piece of art that you could actually drive around in, and it gives you this very bizarre sensation. But the point is that, like, that's not most people. Most people want the newest, latest, greatest thing. And this there's a motivation to get the.
  1943. 02:05:36 JR
  1944. Newest, latest greatest thing that I think.
  1945. 02:05:38 JR
  1946. If you just follow that up to its logical conclusion, it's going to create life. It's going to create. I mean, with how many films have been made about this, you know, Ex Machina and all. All these different films, that's that's that's what we're gonna do. We're gonna. I mean, there's no way we're not going to do that. It's it's if you.
  1947. 02:05:51 DG
  1948. Right, yeah.
  1949. 02:05:58 JR
  1950. So I had a bet on one.
  1951. 02:06:00 JR
  1952. Thing, if the human race doesn't get wiped out by a meteor or a nuclear war, we're gonna ******* do that. We're gonna make a life form 100% and it's going to be almost instantaneously able to.
  1953. 02:06:12 JR
  1954. Figure out all the.
  1955. 02:06:13 JR
  1956. Flaws in its own personal programming and make a much better version of itself if it if it's sentient. If it has the ability to make decisions.
  1957. 02:06:18 DG
  1958. Yeah. Well, I think we're close. I mean, I think I saw some stuff. There's like a open AI fiasco going on right now. And there's rumor that they might have cracked artificial general intelligence, right, AGI and that's.
  1959. 02:06:30 JR
  1960. Ohh Jesus, that's frightening.
  1961. 02:06:31 DG
  1962. I mean, there's like, was it Sam Altman? I think we're talking about. I think there's like, a the board of open AI. There's some shuffle I.
  1963. 02:06:37 DG
  1964. Was just reading when.
  1965. 02:06:37 JR
  1966. Yeah, they just removed him and brought him more back. Well, they removed him, but then apparently the shareholders like, what the **** are you doing? And there was so much outrage that they're trying to bring him back, like instantly. So. But but Elon had a very good point. Like, what was the motivation behind that? And when you think about the implications for the humanity as a whole?
  1967. 02:06:38 DG
  1968. I woke up this morning. Yeah.
  1969. 02:06:48 DG
  1970. Yeah, yeah.
  1971. 02:06:57 JR
  1972. Cause this is such an emerging technology that's so overwhelmingly powerful.
  1973. 02:07:03 JR
  1974. What happened? Like what's going on like? I think this is one of those things where, like, we need to know like, what was the motivation behind your decision? Mm-hmm. And if it was that he was holding back information about the actual creation of artificial general intelligence that it's already. It's already happened. Yeah. And that he's like, hesitant.
  1975. 02:07:19 DG
  1976. Ohh interesting.
  1977. 02:07:23 DG
  1978. Cause he's a little.
  1979. 02:07:24 JR
  1980. Cagey in how he talks about stuff. When I was talking to him about, you could tell like.
  1981. 02:07:30
  1982. It's like a.
  1983. 02:07:30 JR
  1984. Little bit like.
  1985. 02:07:31 JR
  1986. He kind of knows.
  1987. 02:07:33 JR
  1988. That he is at the forefront of this technology, that.
  1989. 02:07:38 JR
  1990. The worst case scenario replaces us.
  1991. 02:07:42 DG
  1992. Yeah. And you know, going back to is a program with any kind of empathy, et cetera, depending on if it handles critical. I guess the thing I saw in the government, because I did a lot of cyber stuff in my career.
  1993. 02:07:56 DG
  1994. As as AI gets more advanced you you know you create, say, offensive cyber tools that literally have a mind of their own.
  1995. 02:08:06 DG
  1996. And if, say theoretically you release that on some target and you might not be able to touch that target again, say it's a one time whoop you put it in there.
  1997. 02:08:17 DG
  1998. How do you control? It's almost like Skynet. In the Terminator. I hate to use that analogy, but like that was my fear when I was working at certain agencies working on offensive cyber tools. I'm like, Oh my God, this is not good. And then of course, with cyber, right, it said the attribution actor attribution is the biggest thing. How do you know it was, you know, hypothetically, Russia.
  1999. 02:08:38 DG
  2000. That use the cyber weapon to attack you.
  2001. 02:08:41 DG
  2002. It could have been another actor masquerading as that foreign power, using tactics, techniques, procedures, IP proxy operations to hide where it was coming from, right? So it's like you have non kinetic fires that can potentially create mutually assured destruction because you could take out critical infrastructure.
  2003. 02:08:44 JR
  2004. Right.
  2005. 02:09:01 DG
  2006. Blow blow up the power grid, etcetera. No radiation.
  2007. 02:09:07 DG
  2008. Potentially no attribution, or can you know, confuse the attributes and such that you don't even know who to go.
  2009. 02:09:13 DG
  2010. To war with it's really.
  2011. 02:09:14 DG
  2012. Scary to me. So yeah, that's just my own.
  2013. 02:09:15 JR
  2014. It is scary and it's already happening with social media. I mean, think about how many troll farms there are on social media that are just stirring up disc. And yeah, I mean it's an active program that we know that Russia uses that is trying to undermine democracy and try to keep people.
  2015. 02:09:18 DG
  2016. Yeah, yeah.
  2017. 02:09:32 JR
  2018. Fighting with each other.
  2019. 02:09:34 JR
  2020. And it's been very effective. And if you look at social media, it's just ******* chaos. It's just people yelling at you, particularly Twitter or ex.
  2021. 02:09:40 JR
  2022. You know that's and Facebook. It's like a lot of what's going on. One of the studies showed that out of the top 20 Christian sites that are on Facebook, 19 of them are run by Russian troll farms. So if we know that that on like relatively rudimentary scare scale, if you look at the.
  2023. 02:10:01 JR
  2024. Impact of social media versus the impact of artificial intelligence. They're already doing that. They're already hiding. Who's responsible and what's the what's the?
  2025. 02:10:10 JR
  2026. Goal and how?
  2027. 02:10:10 JR
  2028. To manipulate consciousness and how to manipulate influence and how people think about things and what what the public opinion on things are, it's already very effective.
  2029. 02:10:22 JR
  2030. You would imagine that a creation of artificial intelligence would radically accelerate that.
  2031. 02:10:28 DG
  2032. 100% then I remember the deep fake stuff was were a real problem for my old community because we're like holy ****, you could really fake some stuff and you got to develop algorithms to make sure you can analyze. Ohh hey that that is fake.
  2033. 02:10:41 DG
  2034. You've seen some of the deep fakes where it's like Obama or Arnold.
  2035. 02:10:44 DG
  2036. Bigger the Tom Cruise guy. Holy ****, that is crazy. Like you're gonna be able to bring actors from the dead back. At this point, you're gonna have like Cary Grant. You know, doing a musical or whatever, you know.
  2037. 02:10:47 JR
  2038. Hi. Holy ****, it's.
  2039. 02:10:52 JR
  2040. 100%.
  2041. 02:10:57 DG
  2042. You know, I assume so, yeah.
  2043. 02:10:59 JR
  2044. Bruce Willis, who has some sort of a degenerative, degenerative neurological condition.
  2045. 02:11:02 DG
  2046. That's right, yeah.
  2047. 02:11:05 JR
  2048. Sold his likeness for the ability to make commercials and all sorts of other things, like he's essentially saying he's fading.
  2049. 02:11:14 JR
  2050. Unfortunately, and now he will give this thing, which is this property, which is Bruce Willis, this famous person, and they will be able to create versions of him starring in films.
  2051. 02:11:27 DG
  2052. Ohh and certainly if you train an AI model just like chat LGBT, you could actually get almost like what they would normally say. What yeah.
  2053. 02:11:34 JR
  2054. Yes, 100%.
  2055. 02:11:34 DG
  2056. Their knowledge, and it's almost like having a permanent historian too. You could like, you know, if you want to talk to Clint Eastwood about his films in the 60s after Clint Eastwood, you know, passes, you know, may he live forever. But.
  2057. 02:11:47 DG
  2058. Like that would be. It'd be crazy it'd be.
  2059. 02:11:49 DG
  2060. Really interesting I.
  2061. 02:11:50 JR
  2062. Mean he might actually be able to give you advice. He might be your personal advisor, you know, like, I mean, that's probably one of the things that's gonna come out of this. But when we think about empathy, we we also think about just human beings and the way we communicate and interact with each other.
  2063. 02:11:54 DG
  2064. I know that'd be.
  2065. 02:12:07 JR
  2066. Empathy is very important and also compassion and forgiveness. All these things are very important qualities because we recognize that we're very flawed. But when you create something that is not flawed, yeah, then the the need for empathy, the need for all of these things that we attach to human emotions and human reward systems.
  2067. 02:12:26 JR
  2068. They will, they'll.
  2069. 02:12:27 JR
  2070. No longer be a significant issue because you're gonna be dealing with something that operates on a higher plane. It might be the answer to all that ails us, which is so terrifying for us because we recognize that what we derive, the joy that we derive from love, from companionship, from friendship, from community.
  2071. 02:12:47 JR
  2072. It's like a key component to life on Earth for us. But it's also because we recognize that without that, we are the *******. Without that, we're nozi Germany. Without that, you know, we're Hamas, we're whatever the **** we are. That's that we recognize as being like.
  2073. 02:13:02 JR
  2074. Evil or dangerous or horrible about humans that when we think about the worst case scenario for human beings, we always think about things like the Holocaust. We think about what is the worst, the worst acts that human beings are capable of with our current programming and our biological flaws. Like what are the worst things we could do?
  2075. 02:13:23 JR
  2076. Terrible, awful things. Well, if we don't have those problems, if we no longer have envy, we no.
  2077. 02:13:29 DG
  2078. Longer have greed.
  2079. 02:13:30 JR
  2080. We no longer have evil if we don't have any of those properties, they don't, they don't.
  2081. 02:13:34 JR
  2082. Exist anymore, we just have.
  2083. 02:13:37 JR
  2084. This new form of consciousness that's far superior.
  2085. 02:13:41 DG
  2086. That's an interesting parallel because you have, you know, you're no longer, maybe apex sentience if you have artificial intelligence, you know, governing certain things. And I think that's also kind of this.
  2087. 02:13:54 DG
  2088. Psychological issue with this U AP issue where we might not be the apex predator we have we're we may be that Mountain Lion.
  2089. 02:14:04 DG
  2090. And we're going to have to be comfortable knowing that we're going to be vulnerable. There's people far superior that may have malevolent intentions, maybe not, I don't know. And.
  2091. 02:14:16 DG
  2092. Almost be humbled. The fact that like, sorry, we're not the smartest of.
  2093. 02:14:20 DG
  2094. Yeah. And that and that might be really hard for a lot of people to process. And I think that's probably.
  2095. 02:14:26 DG
  2096. I would imagine one of the deliberations they must have done years ago, like we can't disclose because you know people are not gonna feel comfortable in that worldview so.
  2097. 02:14:35 JR
  2098. Right.
  2099. 02:14:36 JR
  2100. 100% and they're not. And then I wonder if these things that we're experiencing are the natural progression of what happens.
  2101. 02:14:46 JR
  2102. When you do.
  2103. 02:14:47 JR
  2104. See the life on planet or you do accelerate biological life. You do have some sort of a genetic intervention where you take this thing that it has emerging intelligence.
  2105. 02:14:58 JR
  2106. And you accelerate it.
  2107. 02:14:59 JR
  2108. And that that thing will in turn, with all of its desire for innovation and creativity, and also all of its desire to control resources and and have power and have influence, that it will eventually lead to the creation of what we're seeing, that these things.
  2109. 02:15:19 JR
  2110. Are the next stage of this process and that maybe we're dealing with one form of that next stage, but there's another stage that's a million years more advanced than that?
  2111. 02:15:22 DG
  2112. Yeah, yeah.
  2113. 02:15:30 JR
  2114. That's far superior. That doesn't even have a biological limitation in terms of physical space that it exists completely in some other undetectable realm. Yeah, that is not no longer no longer thinks about biological limitations of life and death, and and communication. It exists completely.
  2115. 02:15:50 JR
  2116. In some other space that, that's what these things are. And then I I always wonder.
  2117. 02:15:55 JR
  2118. When there's a crash or when there's a body, or when there's a this that like and people saying, well, what if they're so advanced? Why are they crashing? Well, hold on.
  2119. 02:16:05 JR
  2120. What what are which which?
  2121. 02:16:06 JR
  2122. Version are we looking at? We're we're not saying there's one thing that's visiting us. If there's one thing that's visiting us and we know where this one thing is, we could say ohh well that thing. It deals with a completely different solar system that's not as vulnerable. It doesn't have asteroid.
  2123. 02:16:19 JR
  2124. Clouds. It doesn't have all these different things where it's.
  2125. 02:16:21 JR
  2126. It doesn't have a a planet that has super volcanoes. Maybe life evolved in a more stable environment and it allowed it to get to a far greater technological level, but not the ultimate.
  2127. 02:16:34 DG
  2128. Yeah, we might be testing the extent of their adaptability. And like I said, are they crashing by accident, right. Mission failure.
  2129. 02:16:42 DG
  2130. Or on purpose, right?
  2131. 02:16:44 DG
  2132. So and then of course with the far distances and everything, I mean, if they're traveling here through some kind of space-time metric engineering construct, you know the distances are not as fast as you think, right? It could be going through some kind of you know traversable wormhole or something like that where it's like a walk down the street for them it's not you know 1000 light years.
  2133. 02:17:04 JR
  2134. Well, just think about communication. Just our communication used to be you had to get in front of someone and they had to talk to them. So you had to know their language. You had to either nonverbal or verbal communication. You had to figure out a way to say things to them that's no longer the case. Obviously, with this new Android operating system, it translates but.
  2135. 02:17:04 DG
  2136. So yeah.
  2137. 02:17:23 JR
  2138. Also, the fact that you could have a ******* FaceTime call with someone in Japan right now and you instantaneously can communicate back and forth, which is insane.
  2139. 02:17:34 DG
  2140. That's a vast distance, but for us it's like stupid. It's like, yeah, easy.
  2141. 02:17:37 JR
  2142. Vast distance and instantaneous. Yeah. I mean, I was just in Scotland and I was facetiming my daughter back home. Yeah, ******* crazy. You're 9 hours by plane and you're having instantaneous communication, which is wild ****. But that's just that's *******.
  2143. 02:17:39 DG
  2144. What tunneling?
  2145. 02:17:57 JR
  2146. That that. That's like pong, you know, that's that's Morse code. That's like, it's very primitive in terms of what if you physically can be in these places instantaneous and why? Why would we assume that that's not eventually going to be on?
  2147. 02:18:13 DG
  2148. The menu? Yeah, it's just like the conventional propulsion stuff for not.
  2149. 02:18:17 DG
  2150. Using an Elon Musk Starship right to get here.
  2151. 02:18:19 DG
  2152. They're doing something else, so yeah.
  2153. 02:18:20 DG
  2154. It's like.
  2155. 02:18:21 JR
  2156. You talked to someone from the 1800s and you said you're gonna go to Nevada. Jesus Christ. You know how far.
  2157. 02:18:26 JR
  2158. That is on a wagon, you.
  2159. 02:18:27 JR
  2160. Know. Yeah, right. But no, you fly to Vegas. It's two hours. Yeah, it's ******* easy.
  2161. 02:18:28 DG
  2162. That's months, man. Yeah.
  2163. 02:18:32 JR
  2164. You know, like we know that now. So why would we assume that there's a limitation to that advancement? I don't.
  2165. 02:18:40 JR
  2166. Think that's?
  2167. 02:18:40 DG
  2168. Yeah. And of course, a friend of mine, Eric Weinstein, certainly.
  2169. 02:18:46 DG
  2170. Spouses we don't have the right theoretical frameworks right now. He's right.
  2171. 02:18:49 DG
  2172. You know he.
  2173. 02:18:50 DG
  2174. He he has his own geometric unity theory and.
  2175. 02:18:52 DG
  2176. Yeah, he's way smarter than, but yeah, it's so funny if he calls me. I'm like, you gotta call me in the morning after my 24 oz.
  2177. 02:18:54 JR
  2178. He's too smart. He's confusing.
  2179. 02:18:57 JR
  2180. He starts talking to you.
  2181. 02:18:58 JR
  2182. Like slow down.
  2183. 02:19:03 DG
  2184. Monster Energy drink.
  2185. 02:19:04 DG
  2186. Or or. I can't even keep up, man.
  2187. 02:19:06 JR
  2188. Yeah. Yeah, he's he's on a.
  2189. 02:19:08 JR
  2190. To a level he has some his he's got some unique theories himself about where all this stuff is coming from and it's it's all very, very, very interesting and intriguing, but also makes sense. All of it makes sense, including being visited. You know, I had this conversation with Neil deGrasse Tyson. Like, why would they?
  2191. 02:19:27 JR
  2192. Be interested in us. I'm like, what the ****?
  2193. 02:19:29 JR
  2194. Are you talking to me?
  2195. 02:19:29 DG
  2196. We're super interested. Yeah. And Neil, I mean, obviously, he's a fine science communicator. Kind of the success and of successor of kind of the.
  2197. 02:19:38 DG
  2198. Carl Sagan kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. I like Carl better. But I watched really well, but I remember my my aunt gave me cosmos by Carl Sagan when I was in middle school, and it was the book of from the 80S.
  2199. 02:19:39 JR
  2200. I think Carlson was a little bit more.
  2201. 02:19:40 JR
  2202. Open minded.
  2203. 02:19:43 JR
  2204. Yeah, I'm more of.
  2205. 02:19:44 JR
  2206. A yeah.
  2207. 02:19:45 JR
  2208. Wish he was still alive. I love to smoke weed with that guy. He was really into weed. Yeah. Really, really into it.
  2209. 02:19:56 DG
  2210. That book tripped me out and I was like, I want to study science and I read it was brief history of time by Stephen Hawking. And I read those two books when I was like in 8th grade and I was like, this is trippy. I want to study astronomy. This is insane, but I also.
  2211. 02:20:12 DG
  2212. Definitely use kind of my technical background to be a spook. You know for the government. But I still observe I have a big telescope and I live like super dark skies in Colorado and I still that boyhood fascination of the cosmos. Now, ironically, I found out something else that kind of confirms that the cosmos is.
  2213. 02:20:33 DG
  2214. Not lifeless and you know God paints with a broad brush as like the Vatican has espoused a couple of years ago when they said this is OK with their.
  2215. 02:20:40 JR
  2216. Theology. I have a theory that the universe itself is God, hmm.
  2217. 02:20:44 JR
  2218. I think there are.
  2219. 02:20:46 DG
  2220. That's like what I was talking about with the, you know, multidimensional creator, creating universes, yeah.
  2221. 02:20:49 JR
  2222. Yes, I think we have a very limited idea of when we say God. When God created the heavens and the.
  2223. 02:20:57 JR
  2224. Right, right. But what is? What are you, what are we saying? I think it's the universe itself. I think it's one thing and that this one thing it seeks to create these things that continually push the envelope and maybe gods themselves eventually. I think if you extrapolate from our.
  2225. 02:21:17 JR
  2226. Ability versus the ability of an amoeba.
  2227. 02:21:20 JR
  2228. And you continue to move that along. What does that do? Well, it's going to be able to create universes. There's already been, like, theoretical papers that have been written about the creation of other things, like black holes, other things like a universe or the like. What what is involved in the creation of a universe, what is involved in The Big Bang?
  2229. 02:21:41 JR
  2230. Can that be replicated? Well, not now, but if AI becomes sentient and AI.
  2231. 02:21:49 JR
  2232. Eventually makes far greater versions of itself if it keeps doing that. Like what? What? What are the limits of its potential? Create creates the matrix.
  2233. 02:21:58 JR
  2234. Create. Yeah, literally literally creates A simulated environment that's indiscernible. You you can't tell the difference between that and regular life. Well, maybe because there is no difference. Maybe that is what I mean. That's the theory of simulation theater.
  2235. 02:22:13 DG
  2236. Yeah. Simulation theory. Yeah. Familiar and that.
  2237. 02:22:15 DG
  2238. That is a possibility.
  2239. 02:22:16 DG
  2240. Because the universe seems like a little too perfect, it's a little strange, very created to me. So just like we're in the Goldilocks zone. Perfect. Temperature like it's it's real weird.
  2241. 02:22:29
  2242. Which is the how about?
  2243. 02:22:30 JR
  2244. The Big Bang itself. Like what? What? What happened? Something smaller than the head of a pin for for no known reason becomes everything. Yeah. OK.
  2245. 02:22:40 DG
  2246. Yeah, OK. And what's the universe expanding into? It's like a quantum foam or whatever the heck the latest.
  2247. 02:22:43 JR
  2248. Right.
  2249. 02:22:46 DG
  2250. Theory is that's like beyond me. Yes, yeah.
  2251. 02:22:48 JR
  2252. And then it perhaps just retracts back down to that infinitely small thing and then expands again, and that this is an endless cycle and that we're just so limited because of our biological limitations, our, our, our life and death is such a.
  2253. 02:23:03 JR
  2254. A small little tiny blip. It's so minuscule in terms of just the overall.
  2255. 02:23:09 JR
  2256. Known life of the universe. And then you have the James Webb telescope that.
  2257. 02:23:14 JR
  2258. You know, there's people that question the actual length of time that occurred between The Big Bang and now that maybe it might be far longer and there's people like Brian Keating. They say that's not. That's not correct. It's just a a lack of understanding of what we understand currently about the creation of galaxies.
  2259. 02:23:31 JR
  2260. And that these things.
  2261. 02:23:31 DG
  2262. Yeah, cause I mean obviously the length of the of the age of the universe keeps on getting older and older and a lot of that's cause of the the Doppler fit Doppler shift, right, the red shift as the galaxies are accelerating away.
  2263. 02:23:42 DG
  2264. They, you know, we can calculate what the, what, what their origin point probably was and how long it took for them to speed up like.
  2265. 02:23:50 DG
  2266. That right so thing.
  2267. 02:23:50 JR
  2268. And only based on our current understanding.
  2269. 02:23:53 JR
  2270. Yes, which is obviously at.
  2271. 02:23:55 JR
  2272. Least fairly limited in terms.
  2273. 02:23:57 JR
  2274. Of what's its potential is.
  2275. 02:23:58 DG
  2276. Well, yeah, like we still don't quite understand the origin of the moon. The moon is at the right location that causes solar and lunar eclipses. It's like the right apparent.
  2277. 02:24:08 DG
  2278. Size to block out the sun. It's like super weird. Same thing with like Mars. We're not sure. Like what happened? Near where? Mars, you know, had some probable life on it. Either a protoplanet hit it or there was some kind of impact that vaporized stuff. And, like, who knows? Yeah.
  2279. 02:24:23 JR
  2280. Then yeah.
  2281. 02:24:25 JR
  2282. Yeah, who knows? And this is just this little tiny neighborhood that we're looking at.
  2283. 02:24:30 JR
  2284. It's like we are in our backyard looking for evidence of like life in Africa, you know, I mean, like, you're not gonna figure it out here. There's. So there's just. We're just looking at it. Such a small.
  2285. 02:24:37
  2286. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
  2287. 02:24:43 JR
  2288. Yale, in terms of what we could potentially discover or potentially observe.
  2289. 02:24:48 JR
  2290. Yeah, I I often wonder, you know, when we're seeing especially with the the idea of UAP's UFO crafts, if we're we're seeing a version of what we will become or something like us becomes if given enough time.
  2291. 02:25:03 DG
  2292. Well, that, that, I mean there's like a doctor Mike Masters at Montana State. He literally postulates.
  2293. 02:25:10 DG
  2294. You know, he says. Time travelers, we could debate time travel. But like he thinks it might be like a advanced form of **** sapien is what we're seeing coming back like a breakaway civilization. And we're coming back to see an older version of ourself that was left on Earth.
  2295. 02:25:23 DG
  2296. Or something like that. So yeah.
  2297. 02:25:24 JR
  2298. Well, the way we.
  2299. 02:25:25 JR
  2300. Would visit like N Sentinel Island and and visit those people that are trapped on that island that are. Yeah, uncontacted. Yeah.
  2301. 02:25:32 DG
  2302. Yeah, exactly. And then a lot of.
  2303. 02:25:34 DG
  2304. And there's also like cargo cult religions and stuff. You know, the South Pacific in World War 2, they they worshipped the the P51 and stuff like they thought those were UFO's, but really, they were just us, you know, so and I.
  2305. 02:25:45 JR
  2306. Yeah, but we were probably.
  2307. 02:25:47 DG
  2308. Think alien.
  2309. 02:25:48 JR
  2310. To them, I mean something comes.
  2311. 02:25:48 DG
  2312. Ohh 100% yeah I.
  2313. 02:25:50 JR
  2314. Mean. Just look at how Cortez looked to the the people that you know had no idea that people could ride horses. Like, what the **** is going on? These guys are riding horses. Yeah, like these.
  2315. 02:25:59 DG
  2316. He's these white guys.
  2317. 02:26:00 JR
  2318. Are gods? Yeah, he's insane. They.
  2319. 02:26:01 DG
  2320. Coming in? What the heck?
  2321. 02:26:03 JR
  2322. They come on a ship in the ocean and they ride horses.
  2323. 02:26:06 DG
  2324. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
  2325. 02:26:09 JR
  2326. Yeah, it's it's all based on our limited under.
  2327. 02:26:11 JR
  2328. Demanding and for someone, whether it's the federal government or whether it's military contractors, for someone to have key elements that could give us a better understanding of this whole picture.
  2329. 02:26:27 JR
  2330. It's it's really inexcusable to not relay that to all of humanity, so this is too much information to be secret. It's too important if it is real. It's too important for someone to have access to just because they have power and money and influence.
  2331. 02:26:48 JR
  2332. It seems insane. I mean, that's the.
  2333. 02:26:50 DG
  2334. Whole primer for what I did. I mean it's I I you know, I think I'm a pretty more ethical person. I just could not live with myself if I didn't try to, like, make a difference even though it was very uncomfortable, personal privacy and and, you know, professional and personal health was at risk. You know. So it's just.
  2335. 02:27:07 JR
  2336. It also seems like the public understanding and appreciation of these things, particularly after the 2017 article in the New York Times, has changed. There's been a shift. Whereas before, if you would talk about UFO's or the idea of extraterrestrial life.
  2337. 02:27:21 JR
  2338. You were automatically lumped into this group of people that believes in Bigfoot. You know, it's like you're you're in, you're in the Loch Ness Monster. You're kind of a **** who likes fringe things cause probably got problems in your own life. You're not addressing. And so you just fact it. It's like a gambler or stuff like that. You're just, like, distracting yourself with this craziness in order to ignore.
  2339. 02:27:33 DG
  2340. Yeah, yeah.
  2341. 02:27:41 JR
  2342. The the reality of existence itself, which is so complicated and difficult to.
  2343. 02:27:45 JR
  2344. And then I think that if we had a better understanding of the.
  2345. 02:27:51 JR
  2346. The overall scale of the potential of life in the universe based on what we know like physical evidence, undeniable physical evidence that shows us that we're not alone. Mm-hmm. That would be a massive change in just the overall shift of consciousness on Earth if we could understand the.
  2347. 02:28:12 JR
  2348. These territorial disputes that we have, which are almost always over resources or over the land or over religions and ideologies, if we could understand that these are nonsense in the vast scope of the universe itself, and this is the the what is that effect? That the people that.
  2349. 02:28:32 JR
  2350. Get into the space station have and astronauts the over.
  2351. 02:28:34 DG
  2352. Ohh the overview effect. Yes even.
  2353. 02:28:36 JR
  2354. Overview Yeah, the overview effect.
  2355. 02:28:38 DG
  2356. William Shatner had that when he went up in the blue.
  2357. 02:28:41 DG
  2358. Origin thing, yeah.
  2359. 02:28:41 JR
  2360. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure everybody has it. I mean, I'm sure it's just like you go like, oh, my God. Like what?
  2361. 02:28:46 JR
  2362. Doing like this is.
  2363. 02:28:48 DG
  2364. One and that's how I felt. I mean, like, after I found all this stuff, I could continue my career, you know, made Lieutenant Colonel here this winter made senior executive service in a year or two. Did national security stuff. But I'm, like, sitting in my office and I'm like, there's better things for me to care about than.
  2365. 02:29:06 DG
  2366. Russian troop movements like.
  2367. 02:29:09 DG
  2368. We're not alone, right? This is.
  2369. 02:29:11 DG
  2370. Like I I have to like pull the whistle on. This is insane because certainly the people who we talk to are not lying and the documents I meticulously went through, they were not forgeries. They were not deception material. So it's just like I have to do.
  2371. 02:29:26 JR
  2372. Something I'm sure you've seen those Freedom of Information Act disclosure.
  2373. 02:29:30 JR
  2374. Papers from the CIA, from God. It was like the 1950s, where they're detailing all the various forms of life and that that we know are currently that currently exist. And you remember that, Jamie, we pulled up that document.
  2375. 02:29:38
  2376. OK.
  2377. 02:29:46 JR
  2378. Do you think you could?
  2379. 02:29:47 JR
  2380. Got it. Jamie will find it, but it's like 1950 something where they were discussing.
  2381. 02:29:53 DG
  2382. These things interesting. Yeah. I'm not sure which ones you're talking about. I'd have.
  2383. 02:29:55 JR
  2384. To see them. So it's pretty weird stuff because like if they knew about this in the 1950s, like, how do they know?
  2385. 02:30:01 DG
  2386. Well, there was like CIA docs about consciousness and like, weird remote viewing stuff. I mean, besides the Stargate program.
  2387. 02:30:09 DG
  2388. That were released in the FOIA reading room on CIA's website, too, that are pretty trippy. We're like, wow, CIA's looking into some really interesting stuff. I mean, there are.
  2389. 02:30:18 DG
  2390. ******** Intel Agency what's going on there? So yeah.
  2391. 02:30:21 JR
  2392. But it makes sense that they would kind of have to find out if that's ******** or not, like you can't ignore that if you're really doing your job. If your job is intelligence like OK, like, let's look at this.
  2393. 02:30:32 DG
  2394. Even aspect of the phenomenon, because it's like a reach out from the crash retrieval program like hey, I need you to look into some weird stuff because it might be the key unlock for something that we got in a warehouse. You.
  2395. 02:30:43 JR
  2396. Know. Yeah, so whoa.
  2397. 02:30:45 JR
  2398. Yeah. Yeah, so.
  2399. 02:30:48 JR
  2400. As it stands right now, what what's the future for this stuff? What's the future for these disclosures and and what what? What are the bottlenecks?
  2401. 02:30:57 DG
  2402. Well, I mean, certainly from the governmental process, you know, as long as the house doesn't kill the Schumer amendment and I'm, you know, that's why I'm discussing it here with you. Because if they they don't pass it, it's going to be the greatest set back to humankind in U.S. history literally.
  2403. 02:31:13 DG
  2404. That so the presidential panel gets impaneled about 90 days or so after the passage of the bill, so by by Christmas, as long as it doesn't get killed, we'll be in the National Defense Authorization Act.
  2405. 02:31:28 DG
  2406. Panel will be formed, say, February, March. Then they have a 300 day process to develop a initial plan for the President and I don't know if Chuck Schumer and his staff were being kind of.
  2407. 02:31:43 DG
  2408. Crafty or whatever. But the 300 days, if you actually do it out, it's like the election.
  2409. 02:31:48 DG
  2410. So yeah, so I don't know if they want to make it an election issue, which certainly if this act doesn't pass, I think it needs to be an election issue because the senior executive needs to rule on this. If Congress can't get their **** together. To be quite honest.
  2411. 02:32:01 DG
  2412. And we have a a a plan out to 2030 where this stuff starts getting rolled out knock on wood, perfect storm things could get delayed, but then in parallel and that's kind of why.
  2413. 02:32:13 DG
  2414. I helped found the Soul Foundation with Gary Nolan. Doctor Peter Skyfish, who's an anthropologist as well, is we wanted to figure out the STEM outreach. We wanted to figure out the public policy national policy to advise the US and its allies on this issue, you know, and we're happy. Like I said, I'm not here to slap the government in its entirety and admonish.
  2415. 02:32:35 DG
  2416. Everybody like I think there needs to be the truth and reconciliation process, but I think our foundation we want to be like.
  2417. 02:32:40 DG
  2418. OK. Well, bring us in as a think tank. If you know, based on my experience and experience of my colleagues like you have an issue with X, well, let's figure out how to roll this out and how to, you know, incentivize the National Science Foundation to look in this, make this like, you know through use right you might.
  2419. 02:33:00 DG
  2420. Develop a unique scientific process that actually works well with nanobiology or something like that, but also has dual use with UAP.
  2421. 02:33:12 DG
  2422. So there's parallel tracks. I mean, there's public discovery, there's like the Galileo project with Avi Loeb, right, that they're trying to on their own collect techno signatures, which is, I applaud that. I mean, obviously the government knows a lot about that, but we don't want to obviously rely on the US government to do all the work for us.
  2423. 02:33:31 DG
  2424. And also to be honest, so I think having a parallel track and you know Galileo Project, Soul Foundation Ryan Graves has his.
  2425. 02:33:40 DG
  2426. Foundation as well for pilots and people who have seen.
  2427. 02:33:44 DG
  2428. Unique things to provide that data to people. So I think you got to have those dual tracks and you know hopefully we can create a tsunami event where the US government, its allies and maybe our adversaries.
  2429. 02:33:55 DG
  2430. But really if.
  2431. 02:33:56 DG
  2432. The US government doesn't get their house in order here. I mean, you could have uncontrolled disclosure events.
  2433. 02:34:04 DG
  2434. Such that either maybe the non human intelligence is like, yeah, let's do it. Or what if one of our adversaries decides to disclose and they become the Messiah?
  2435. 02:34:14 DG
  2436. Figure on this and we lose sovereignty or national supremacy in in that regard from an open and honest civil society perspective. So I.
  2437. 02:34:24 DG
  2438. But I think the governments we're getting close, I think.
  2439. 02:34:27 DG
  2440. As long as.
  2441. 02:34:27 JR
  2442. We're certainly.
  2443. 02:34:28 JR
  2444. Yeah, never been before. Just the fact that they brought you in to have these conversations.
  2445. 02:34:36 DG
  2446. Yeah. No, I'm. I'm still advising the US government on this and and and I'm trying to carefully message this, put all the broad things on the table and I'm not trying to be coy. I'm not trying to be conceal anything, but it's like there's real national security and collateral damage with just releasing this Willy nilly and.
  2447. 02:34:55 DG
  2448. I'm just trying to get the government to get a plan together here and and just be open and honest with the people of the world, really. So. And there's still the bottleneck with these military contractors that allegedly have access to these things. Yeah. And like to to those guys. And I know some of them and the the individuals that.
  2449. 02:35:13 DG
  2450. Hold the keys like this is a boon like this is. Don't look at it like you're gonna lose money. You this is a recruiting opportunity. Yes. You're going to have to let other people in the cookie jar. That's how a fair and free society works. And they should be able to compete for work. And because that was one of the main. I talked to some individuals that were in an informal session for a previous administration.
  2451. 02:35:36 DG
  2452. One should we disclose or not for a certain former president and?
  2453. 02:35:40 DG
  2454. Really insightful. What they told me and and one of the biggest impasses to disclosure wasn't the ontological shock from a socioeconomic or theological perspective. It was.
  2455. 02:35:50 DG
  2456. Well, there's some white collar crime. We violated the Federal acquisition regulations. We sole source this work to some big companies. For decades, contractors are going to litigate this to the Supreme Court saying they lost billions of projected income because they didn't get the bid on the work and it's going to be this like.
  2457. 02:36:10 DG
  2458. Liability disaster for the US government and and the problem with that is is like I understand that but like that's why you need to have a truth and reconciliation process. It's almost like a the truth and Reconciliation Commission and post apartheid South Africa, where people who committed, like murder came in and was like, this is what happened.
  2459. 02:36:29 DG
  2460. Here you go and you know they don't get convicted of those crimes. And I'm not saying, I mean people who have committed murder as it relates to the subject, OK, we should probably hold them accountable. But for some of this stuff, there needs to be a process where we kind of mitigate some of those unfortunate legal issues. But that was one of the main.
  2461. 02:36:47 DG
  2462. Issues a certain group for a reasonably recent administration.
  2463. 02:36:52 DG
  2464. Came up with and advised that president, hey, look, there's going to be a lot of Supreme Court.
  2465. 02:36:57 DG
  2466. Stuff. Let's not be that be.
  2467. 02:36:59 DG
  2468. That guy. So it's like.
  2469. 02:37:01 DG
  2470. The like. That's the barrier. That's the.
  2471. 02:37:03 DG
  2472. Reason. Come on.
  2473. 02:37:05 JR
  2474. Well, it's so.
  2475. 02:37:05 JR
  2476. Ridiculous. It makes sense though, that they would think that way because I do believe that lawsuits would emerge from something like that.
  2477. 02:37:12 DG
  2478. Ohh certainly and it it's. And also it's like the government admitting that we can't protect its citizenry, you know? You know these non human intelligence you know want to do something to you. Sorry we don't have any countermeasures to that. You know it's like this. You know there's a social contract between the citizens and the government right we can protect you et cetera and like.
  2479. 02:37:31 DG
  2480. In this case, it's like it's an enigma, but I think this is almost like. Remember like after 911 I was in high school when 911 happened and you know, people were afraid of dirty bombs, terrorists. We didn't. We didn't know what was going to happen next. We lived in fear. But like, you know, we banded together in the presence of fear and apprehension and.
  2481. 02:37:51 DG
  2482. And knowing what the world.
  2483. 02:37:52 DG
  2484. Was going to be and we.
  2485. 02:37:53 DG
  2486. Made made it through.
  2487. 02:37:54 DG
  2488. It that I mean that's of.
  2489. 02:37:55 DG
  2490. Course analogy to this, but I.
  2491. 02:37:58 DG
  2492. People just have to.
  2493. 02:37:59 DG
  2494. Think in that mindset like it's gonna be a little scary. It's not gonna be like Kumbaya. Let's let's move the ship to the masonian and check it out. It's gonna be this, you know, awkward and.
  2495. 02:38:11 DG
  2496. Things we're going to have to address sociologically.
  2497. 02:38:13 DG
  2498. I guess are you?
  2499. 02:38:14 JR
  2500. Optimistic about how all this lays out.
  2501. 02:38:18 DG
  2502. I am. I mean it's kind of like.
  2503. 02:38:20 DG
  2504. When I was testifying in the public hearing, oddly bipartisan, in a good way, I had AOC and Matt Gaetz like agreeing on something, and they were, like, smiling at each other. OK, this is crazy. You know, I'm like, look at those AOC. There's Matt gates. There's timber shack. I mean, there's like people, Garcia, like, people that wouldn't see eye to eye on most subjects because they.
  2505. 02:38:29 JR
  2506. That's crazy.
  2507. 02:38:38 JR
  2508. Because it's such a human issue.
  2509. 02:38:40 DG
  2510. They would know the truth too, and and I don't think the the leaders in Congress.
  2511. 02:38:42
  2512. Right.
  2513. 02:38:46 DG
  2514. Want to be told that they're second class citizens? I mean, a lot of presidents weren't briefed to everything. Some presidents knew a lot more than others, and I have a pretty good beat on that.
  2515. 02:38:55 DG
  2516. And it's like, wait, the chief executive that also forms foreign policy. You don't tell them about a ostensibly a foreign element. So how do they, as Chief of state, how do they form foreign policy when you don't fully brief them on?
  2517. 02:39:10 DG
  2518. Of foreign elements that classifying the existence of Russia.
  2519. 02:39:13 JR
  2520. Right, right.
  2521. 02:39:14 DG
  2522. So you're actually, you know, non constitutional by not allowing our commander-in-chief all information sometimes, you know and.
  2523. 02:39:24 DG
  2524. I don't know what Harry.
  2525. 02:39:26 DG
  2526. Reid talked to Joe Biden. I mean, it was certainly the substance that I I mentioned here.
  2527. 02:39:31 DG
  2528. And I I hope that Joe Biden has been briefed on the program, so to speak.
  2529. 02:39:36 DG
  2530. At least I'm. I'm giving him an oral, unclassified briefing right now. I guess if he hasn't been in and I'm happy to, you know, talk to Jake Sullivan or Avril Haines and Avril Haines if she's not briefed like she's supposed to be briefed to all intelligence in the country. It's fifty US code, section 3024.
  2531. 02:39:55 DG
  2532. Director, now national intelligence has allowed everything from all federal agencies. That's Intel related well.
  2533. 02:40:00 DG
  2534. Ma'am, if you.
  2535. 02:40:01 DG
  2536. Don't know what I'm talking about. We have a.
  2537. 02:40:03 DG
  2538. Problem because you're not being briefed by.
  2539. 02:40:07 DG
  2540. CIA director and some other agencies, so.
  2541. 02:40:12 JR
  2542. Well, listen, David, I really appreciate what you've done. I think you've done a a great service to humanity just by taking a stand and and communicating these ideas and and letting people know how much of this is real.
  2543. 02:40:16 DG
  2544. Thanks Joe.
  2545. 02:40:30 JR
  2546. You know you've opened up?
  2547. 02:40:32 JR
  2548. A world of discourse that probably would not have existed if you hadn't done that. Thanks. Yeah. I mean, this is not easy. So.
  2549. 02:40:38 JR
  2550. I'm I appreciate it. Thank you very much for being here and good luck in the future. Thank you. Alright, bye bye.
  2551. 02:40:44
  2552. Thank you.
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