concept of a demonic hierarchy

from /hhg/ Helluva Hotel General #931 - Hierarchy Edition
QOTT: Do you think the concept of a demonic hierarchy is at odds with what is presented in the show?
happy thanksgiving
https://desuarchive.org/trash/thread/43463209/#43463209
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Stolitz makes the world go 'round.
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I find it amusing that in a world of stick-figure people that someone would need to wear a corset just to appear thinner
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who's the bird on the right?
t. newfg
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Technically a character who made a minor appearance in the Helluva Boss pilot (after Blitzo fell off the balcony and exclaimed to Stella he f-ked her husband).
But more practically he's a well regarded character whose been built up in /hhg/ alongside his Wife.
Exactly who he is characterization wise is kind of a mystery and has never really been established
He's just a cool looking bird
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Crazy I never noticed him before.
Thanks, Anon.
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Also his name is Phenix, he's an actual Ars Goetia demon that's just been assigned this appearance. In the actual show he's just a background character.
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>Phenix
His name is Augustus Penna. You can see the name here even >>43463346

Phenix is a whole another character. Pic related
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Which shows how hard it can be to keep track of certain characters.
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>>43463936
Yeah, they are after all just some thread canon stuff that show up pretty much only in greens and some discussions. It started a few now 100 threads ago where we ceremonially named and married them based on some greens and fanart, hence this pic >>43463346
You can even in the back see some of the posts from the thread.

Also, pic related was created because/inspired from this >>43463362 in the threads. Augustus is ashamed of his cringey emo phase Stolas roped him in kek
I wish I could find the archive links but I'm unable atm
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Blitzo giving up Venus (sxual favors) in exchange for Jupiter (power to travel to the human realm). Pretty neat little touch.
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Isn't that Mars, though?
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I guess it does look more like an arrow than a plus, but I don't see the logic behind it being Mars.
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I spent longer than I care looking over the image and trying to figure out its weird symbology.
Blitzo has the symbol of the planet Saturn on his uniform, there's no indication what planet/symbol he is giving to Stolas
Stolas has the (older and considered outdated by modern standards) symbol of Uranus on his uniform, he is giving what looks like to be the symbol/planet of Jupiter to Blitzo

At its worst, Saturn (Blitzo) represents stress, depression and self doubt. At its best it represents old age, wisdom and the strength of perseverance.
For Ura nus (Stolas), it can showcase an inability to form close connections, difficulty in personal intimacy and are hypersensitive. However at its best it represents science and wisdom, the desire to learn and explore the strange and new.

I think the artist might be a teenage woman.
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>>43464639
>there's no indication what planet/symbol he is giving to Stolas
Ahem, pic related
>Stolas has the symbol of Uranus on his uniform
Clearly symbolizes him taking it up the bum
>I think the artist might be a teenage woman.
That's a given
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What does it mean to be hellborn though? Is it sinners/overlords having sex with each other/imps or is hellborn creation through magic like spawning minions?
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Insofar as we know
Sinners = Dead Humans who got sent to Hell
Hellborn = Any entity that is born in Hell, more so implied to be any entity that is indigenous to Hell
In another case of "word" of god, its been stated that Sinners cannot conceive children
Of course it gets muddled when you consider most of the upper echelon demons in the hierarchy are hellborn. So you could assume any hellborn that are not members of the demonic royalty are stuck near the bottom.

Personally I think this concept of a demonic hierarchy is less a fully realized caste system and more a idea of how powerful the average individual from each section is. From what we have seen in the show the Imps seem to enjoy high quality lives and are not actively discriminated against.
Lucifer is at the top simply because he's the most powerful entity in Hell, not because he is pre-ordained to be at the top. Imps are at the bottom of this list because they are the most physically and magically weak of all species, not because they are expected to be the lowest caste citizens.
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Lucifer is at the top because he's still an archangel, fallen or not.
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Ergo he's likely the most powerful entity in Hell, considering he was the most powerful Angel in existence I think he's literally second to God only in power.
As I said, he's on the top because of his strength, not because he was ordained or expected to be on the top. Ergo my belief this 'hierarchy' stuff is more an expression of the power of the group than some societal hierarchal expectation.
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Michael's the strongest. Lucifer was the prettiest.
But in Hell, yeah, Lucifer could basically facemelt anything except maybe Lilith.
Charlie is a nephalim though, in theory she should be stronger than her father and her mom.
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Amusingly I could see the concept of Charlie being stronger than Luci/Lilith being some kind of plot point for Hazbin Hotel.
In either case, I just don't see the idea of this hierarchy being presented as fact in the show. Imps are riding up and down the rings in golden elevators, half the patrons of one of the most popular clubs in Hell were made up of Imps and other hellborn.
While there is very sufficient evidence to showcase the stratification of the sinner population, I don't see it for the hellborn.
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Is this their heirarchy, or their power level?
Because I can see the average sinner being more powerful than the average Hellborne, but I doubt that Sinners can properly fit into any social stratification in Hell, since they are to be culled once every year.
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If I recall this was inferred and/or stated from one of the infinite+1 streams Viz and co hosted
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Where does Satan fall on that chart? Wouldn't he be above 7 Deadlies but below Lucifer/Lilith/Charile?
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Satan's probably the original Sataniel, so he's more than likely at the very top. Like he made himself a weird parallel to God but in his prison

Or at least, that's my headcanon
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Satan isn't a single entity and doesn't exist you f-king christard. Satan means opposing force of God or opposition of God. A single Imp is Satan. Stolas is Satan. An army of Imps is Satan. Lucifer is the king and ruler of hell.
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A likely story, Satan.
Anyways, according to Viv, Satan and Lucifer will be separate characters in the show.
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Satan is one of the Deadly sins (Pride) so he's probably under Lucifer
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Satan is literally the devil himself though, he can't be below Lucifer
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In some versions. Others have him as the Prince of Wrath - just one of the Seven Princes. There are several versions of Hell's hierarchy, both in apocrypha, Jewish mythological texts, and so on.
Yes, conceptually, Satan, or the Accuser, has been seen as the Devil with a capital "D", but that's not what the show will be going for.
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>Pride
Oops yeah I meant to say Wrath, also all of this demonology stuff is basically medieval fanfiction so there are as many variations of the powerlevels as there were people writing this stuff.
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>Anyways, according to Viv, Satan and Lucifer will be separate characters in the show.
Source. Now.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD93EWy3KKk&t=3674s
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https://youtu.be/BD93EWy3KKk?t=3672
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1:01:17 is the exact moment where Viv says Satan and Lucifer are different characters.
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How do you guys think Imps first came to be in hell ?
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During the War In Heaven, Satan's blood was spilt during his fall and landed upon Hell, birthing the first Imps
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* Lucifer
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Lucifer wanted his own little world to rule so he created imps as a twisted imitation of how God created humans
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Huh so if Alastor was a human and was originally a Sinner but ranked up into becoming an Overlord would he now be able to have children or is he permanently unable to do so? I only ask because it's interesting to hypothetically consider "a sinner evolving in power" and becoming something more than just an ordinary demon. Otherwise, would Octavia, a Hellborn, ever become Ars Goetia, or is she simply Hellborn for life and unable to continue Stolas' bloodline?