[20:30:10] %VeryPinkPancakes: and modlog too xd
[20:31:10] %VeryPinkPancakes: Mafiasignup! The Workshop is starting!
[20:31:24] %VeryPinkPancakes: (Don't PM me /me in).
[20:31:49] %VeryPinkPancakes: During this workshop we will be discussing more in-depth scumhunting than we did last week.
[20:32:36] @superstarsrock: >PMs /me in
[20:32:51] %VeryPinkPancakes: First, we will go back to last week and go to new strategies that you can use to scumhunt ^^
[20:33:48] %VeryPinkPancakes: Next, we will go over a new topic: avoiding scumhunting, and how to do it as mafia.
[20:34:08] %VeryPinkPancakes: Finally, we will take some of your questions into the chat so me and the fellow auth can answer them.
[20:34:22] %VeryPinkPancakes: speaking of questions, the question doc is >>here
[20:34:26] %The(Who+Doctor)²: nice
[20:34:32] %VeryPinkPancakes: docs.google.com/document/d/1xz4QDyG1krwORDfGHlDg53bygT3IidN3GxCUjXkVX5I/edit
[20:34:34] %VeryPinkPancakes: pls
[20:34:36] %The(Who+Doctor)²: ill do qs
[20:34:52] %The(Who+Doctor)²: Post questions there for the one and only Twid to answer
[20:35:02] %VeryPinkPancakes: Any trolling by deleting or random unrelated questions or changing font to ridiculous sizes/colors will be punished
[20:35:36] %VeryPinkPancakes: ImmaFirinMahLazer The(Who+Doctor) and others will answer questions. You can also PM a question to any Roomauth member besides macle and they will probably answer it.
[20:35:44] %VeryPinkPancakes: now let's begin :)
[20:37:26] %VeryPinkPancakes: so first we are going to go over some of the topics we went over last week
[20:37:50] %VeryPinkPancakes: I'd encourage anyone who wants to ifml twid ssr and others to contribute strategies that I don't talk about
[20:37:52] %VeryPinkPancakes: just PM me ^^
[20:39:25] %The(Who+Doctor)²: Yeah I'll throw in some stuff
[20:39:36] %VeryPinkPancakes: Last week, in the realm of Different Strategies for scumhunting, we talked about how you must develop your own strategy for scumhunting (Twidbo :^)) and also about analyzing player interactions with every player.
[20:40:29] %VeryPinkPancakes: We also talked about fillering and lurking. One thing I've seen a lot since then is people e.g. shooting lurkers in modexe simply because they are lurking.
[20:41:09] %VeryPinkPancakes: so I feel like I should talk about how to tell fillering from lurking from contributing sparsely.
[20:41:21] %VeryPinkPancakes: (We also had some suggestions to clarify terms)
[20:43:41] %VeryPinkPancakes: You need to not access a player's activity in the game, but instead how much they have CONTRIBUTED. You could have a super-active player who passively just contributes nothing.
[20:43:45] %VeryPinkPancakes: fuck
[20:43:50] %VeryPinkPancakes: I typed the first message
[20:43:53] %VeryPinkPancakes: but it was too long
[20:43:54] %VeryPinkPancakes: >.>
[20:43:58] %VeryPinkPancakes: that makes no sense brb
[20:44:04] %VeryPinkPancakes: You need to not access a player's activity in the game, but instead how much they have CONTRIBUTED. You could have a super-active player who passively just contributes nothing.
[20:44:07] %VeryPinkPancakes: really
[20:44:09] %VeryPinkPancakes: Sorry >.>
[20:44:21] %VeryPinkPancakes: If you pressure a fillering person, they will suddenly start talking and defend themself. If you pressure a lurking person, they might say "hi" and then go back to lurking. If you pressure an AFK person, they won't say anything, usually.
[20:44:22] %VeryPinkPancakes: If a person is contributing great reads/foses, but sparsely, they aren't doing any of these. However, I still see these people lynched sometimes.
[20:44:22] %VeryPinkPancakes: You need to not access a player's activity in the game, but instead how much they have CONTRIBUTED. You could have a super-active player who passively just contributes nothing.
[20:44:24] %VeryPinkPancakes: there we go
[20:45:16] %VeryPinkPancakes: please, don't PM me joke questions.
[20:45:20] %VeryPinkPancakes: That means you Wolv&Bats :^(
[20:46:04] %VeryPinkPancakes: Also, notice my use of the word "pressure" in the last message.
[20:46:35] %The(Who+Doctor)²: assess, not access*
[20:46:42] %VeryPinkPancakes: I had like 3 people PM me that ok
[20:46:44] %VeryPinkPancakes: :>
[20:47:27] %VeryPinkPancakes: Pressuring is an extremely valuable scumhunting tactic. It is not a strategy in itself, but some people can base almost their whole strategy on it. Like me :>
[20:48:05] %VeryPinkPancakes: If you notice someone responding in a weird way to pressure, don't go off and do something else. KEEP pressuring them. The more you pressure them, the less of a chance that they have making a weird excuse.
[20:51:01] %VeryPinkPancakes: For example, if a Cop investigates scum in GI and gets the result of "Werewolf" and then the person in question claims Hirsute Townie (investigates as Werewolf), it is not the play to make if the cop just stops pressuring the person.
[20:52:51] %VeryPinkPancakes: The hirsute claim is fairly obviously just because the player got inspected as scum. People should continue to pressure that person in order to decide if their claim is real or not.
[20:53:12] %VeryPinkPancakes: As said before, the more pressure you put on that person, the less of a chance they have to fake a claim.
[20:53:38] %VeryPinkPancakes: I recieved a good questions from Wolv&Bats (wow!)
[20:53:48] %VeryPinkPancakes: [20:53:10] Wolv&Bats: but vpp what happens if people try to lynch you for pressuring too hard
[20:53:57] %The(Who+Doctor)²: (note, cop would never inspect ANYONE as WW and should be lynched immediately. Only Seer gets Werewolf/Not Werewolf)
[20:54:15] %VeryPinkPancakes: iirc in gi cop gets factions
[20:54:25] %VeryPinkPancakes: but obviously I don't know my shit o-o
[20:54:34] %VeryPinkPancakes: bad example but you get the idea
[20:55:46] %The(Who+Doctor)²: As a clarifier, Cop in GI sees Mafia/Not Mafia, so WW/Alien/Cult are safe from it.
[20:55:52] %The(Who+Doctor)²: Also
[20:55:58] %VeryPinkPancakes: good to know
[20:56:00] %VeryPinkPancakes: :>
[20:56:04] %VeryPinkPancakes: sorry ;;
[20:56:12] %The(Who+Doctor)²: Anyone who is editting other questions (i'm looking at you anonymous moose) please stop, as it;s hard enough with all y'all posting at once.
[20:56:21] %VeryPinkPancakes: this is my first workshop hosting so I can use it as an excuse
[20:56:32] %VeryPinkPancakes: Anyway, that's called tunneling. Mafiascum defines it as "when a player is so convinced that another is Scum that they are unwilling to look at other cases or consider that they might be wrong."
[20:57:58] %The(Who+Doctor)²: note: tunneling is typically pretty bad for exactly what Wolv said. It will get you lynched most of the time.
[20:58:04] %VeryPinkPancakes: When using pressure, be subject to change.
[20:58:05] %VeryPinkPancakes: ^
[20:58:29] %VeryPinkPancakes: so moral of the story: use pressure to your advantage, but don't pressure to hard
[20:58:41] %VeryPinkPancakes: if anyone wants to contribute a strategy at this point feel free to do so
[21:00:01] %VeryPinkPancakes: Last week in how to make a good read, we talked about making your reads transparent and supporting them with 2-3 pieces of evidence to make them convincing.
[21:00:40] %VeryPinkPancakes: this week, I talk about how to find good evidence :D
[21:01:13] %VeryPinkPancakes: one thing I find helpful is pretending that you are trying to sell someone a house
[21:01:21] %VeryPinkPancakes: except you know, not actually
[21:02:07] %VeryPinkPancakes: When you are selling someone a house, they don't want to hear about the house
[21:02:18] %VeryPinkPancakes: they want to \\see the house\\\
[21:02:52] %VeryPinkPancakes: Logs are much more convincing than saying "Remember that time when?" similar to this metaphor
[21:03:01] %VeryPinkPancakes: and they want to see the full house
[21:04:12] %VeryPinkPancakes: so try to make your topics more broad, instead of "Today, they didn't give a read when others did." instead, say "They haven't contributed a read for the whole game and they just passively agree with everyone else's reads."
[21:04:45] %VeryPinkPancakes: However, if you make your topic too broad, like "this person is scummy." then it is not a very convincing read either.
[21:05:28] %VeryPinkPancakes: Make your topic broad enough so that it is apparent that you are not just nitpicking something the person did once, but have specific examples so it is convincing and not too broad.
[21:05:44] %VeryPinkPancakes: we are actually doing a whole workshop on this (being persuasive) so I will move on for now.
[21:06:09] %The(Who+Doctor)²: vpp dont forget to PB anything you've /walled for hobbes
[21:06:22] %VeryPinkPancakes: Now, a quick break: can someone take a log of the whole workshop thus far and pastebin it for me
[21:06:29] %VeryPinkPancakes: mine is littered with PMs
[21:07:18] %VeryPinkPancakes: ok while people do that, I continue
[21:07:25] %VeryPinkPancakes: blocking PMs for now
[21:07:34] %VeryPinkPancakes: so I can pastebin the rest of ws myself
[21:08:03] @superstarsrock: just remove PMs from chat
[21:08:11] %VeryPinkPancakes: meh
[21:08:15] @superstarsrock: just for ws
[21:08:23] %VeryPinkPancakes: good idea~
[21:08:27] @superstarsrock: so you can still reply
[21:08:36] %VeryPinkPancakes: ssr can you pastebin workshop for me :>
[21:08:40] %VeryPinkPancakes: so far
[21:09:25] %VeryPinkPancakes: Now, last week on FOS and its uses, we talked about how useful it is to force people to give you info. For example, ask someone who they think is town, who they think is scum, and who they have a neutral read on.
[21:09:43] %VeryPinkPancakes: Thank you sparkychild!
[21:10:09] %VeryPinkPancakes: he pastebinned for me
[21:10:35] %VeryPinkPancakes: Another thing we talked about is using FOS to analyze player interactions.
[21:11:11] %VeryPinkPancakes: Now, we come back to reads and using FOS to make your reads convincing- by finding partners!
[21:12:59] %VeryPinkPancakes: If you have a read of two people who you think could be scum partners then it usually is more convincing than just having one person.
[21:13:48] %VeryPinkPancakes: The two typical interactions I find between scum that may result in this type of read are buddying and bussing. For those who need it, I will define.
[21:14:16] %VeryPinkPancakes: Buddying: what the word means. They defend each other.
[21:15:23] %VeryPinkPancakes: Bussing: mostly you hear this in modexe (where scum can shoot another scum member to "confirm" it's own as town). It is pushing on someone because you know they are scum so it makes you look like town.
[21:16:05] %VeryPinkPancakes: Also, note just lynching people because they have to- most of the time, scum are hesitant to lynch each other- for obvious reasons.
[21:16:09] %The(Who+Doctor)²: note: bussing is done as scum, not as town
[21:16:16] %VeryPinkPancakes: ah yes, forgot to clarify.
[21:16:39] %VeryPinkPancakes: All of these activities contribute to interaction between players and therefore reads.
[21:17:15] %VeryPinkPancakes: Last week on reaching a concensus with lynching, we didn't talk about much
[21:17:32] %VeryPinkPancakes: however, this connects to "reading" as scum
[21:17:58] %VeryPinkPancakes: As scum, you have to "read" townies as scum, and if they get lynched, people may suspect you.
[21:18:18] %VeryPinkPancakes: However, this is not the sole reason to lynch someone ^^ town players make mistakes too.
[21:18:35] %VeryPinkPancakes: anyway I don't want to spend much time on this one because I want to get to avoiding scumhunting :3
[21:19:28] %VeryPinkPancakes: This is another spot where you guys can contribute strategies ^^ Zeonth ImmaFirinMahLazer Charizard728 Seito Hakari superstarsrock The(Who+Doctor)
[21:19:50] %The(Who+Doctor)²: Mhm
[21:19:53] %VeryPinkPancakes: HEre's a few things that I make sure to do as scum to attempt to avoid scumhunting
[21:20:03] %The(Who+Doctor)²: ^this is where I speakup
[21:21:13] %The(Who+Doctor)²: veep?
[21:21:22] %VeryPinkPancakes: sorry was answering a long PM question
[21:21:25] %VeryPinkPancakes: :>
[21:21:50] %VeryPinkPancakes: As said earlier, make sure not to lurk or filler as scum- but make sure not to lead town either!
[21:22:36] %VeryPinkPancakes: town leads are suspected sometimes if they don't die because traditionally, scum kills them :>
[21:23:18] %VeryPinkPancakes: speaking of killing, if you are a scum faction that has a kill
[21:23:32] %The(Who+Doctor)²: Please send questions to other staff that arent VPP so he can focus on this
[21:23:33] %VeryPinkPancakes: You need to think about who to kill to avoid scumhunting
[21:23:38] %VeryPinkPancakes: yes pls ty
[21:24:00] %VeryPinkPancakes: One might think "oh! I'll kill the person who has a read on me so I don't get scumhunted out!"
[21:24:19] %VeryPinkPancakes: but think about how the other town players will react to the person's death.
[21:24:31] %VeryPinkPancakes: Will they not be surprised because the person was a town lead?
[21:24:39] %VeryPinkPancakes: Then it would be a fine kill
[21:25:01] %The(Who+Doctor)²: Can i butt in with how I avoid scumhunting?
[21:25:05] %VeryPinkPancakes: but what if they only had a read on you and they weren't leading town? Then, it would seem like a random kill... or a kill to get the pressure off you!
[21:25:08] %The(Who+Doctor)²: B/c its day avoidance
[21:25:10] %VeryPinkPancakes: OFc I asked you to!
[21:25:21] %The(Who+Doctor)²: Avoiding scum hunts during the day:
[21:25:21] %The(Who+Doctor)²: Also, personally, with avoiding scum hunting, the main think I believe in doing (and it works most of the time) is this:
[21:25:28] %VeryPinkPancakes: anyway, just watch how you kill ^^ /me baton pass twid
[21:25:31] %The(Who+Doctor)²: Pretend you're the doctor. You want to play townie enough that you don't get lynched, but not so townie that people are shocked when you don't die at night.
[21:25:32] %The(Who+Doctor)²: And post reads like you're an "amazing villager" because you'll be seen as sort of a townie-read leader to most people, and don't be afraid to scum read your partners now and again to help confirm yourself more.
[21:26:11] %VeryPinkPancakes: remember bussing tho^
[21:26:32] %VeryPinkPancakes: is that all, twid?
[21:26:37] %The(Who+Doctor)²: ye
[21:26:45] %VeryPinkPancakes: I really like that strategy myself, although I need to work on it.
[21:26:48] %The(Who+Doctor)²: thats the main point, you're doing great as is
[21:26:52] %VeryPinkPancakes: ty <3
[21:27:29] +Charizard728: I think one thing is to never, ever, EVER filler.
[21:27:38] %The(Who+Doctor)²: ^^^^^^^^^^^^6
[21:27:38] +Charizard728: Even if it means you have to lurk.
[21:27:41] %VeryPinkPancakes: ^
[21:27:49] %VeryPinkPancakes: Fillering is more scummy than lurking imho
[21:28:22] +Charizard728: If you don't have something amazing to say, just don't say anything at all. People will usually give you a chance to defend yourself for lurking, so just have a good read or something ready.
[21:28:26] %VeryPinkPancakes: because you are obviously there and trying to fake contributing so you don't get scumhunted
[21:28:31] +Charizard728: You could even keep one in reserve.
[21:28:38] %VeryPinkPancakes: Thanks also Charizard728 ^^
[21:29:32] %VeryPinkPancakes: Oh yeah, that's what you should use nights for as scum :> sure, perform the factional kill, but be ready just in case you are under pressure for the next day
[21:29:40] %VeryPinkPancakes: [[be preparede - mulan]]
[21:29:42] %VeryPinkPancakes: :^)
[21:30:15] %VeryPinkPancakes: Anyway, The(Who+Doctor) and Charizard728 kind of just said this, but make sure you have a read yourself as scum.
[21:30:28] +Charizard728: Yeah, totally abuse your scum chat to think of strategies to use. especially if your partner is bad at the game.
[21:30:38] %VeryPinkPancakes: like, if your partner is Charizard728!
[21:30:40] %The(Who+Doctor)²: What he means by that is, be able to give reasons as to why you're town/should be town read
[21:30:41] %VeryPinkPancakes: :D
[21:30:54] %VeryPinkPancakes: jk, ily <3
[21:30:56] %VeryPinkPancakes: anyway
[21:31:04] %VeryPinkPancakes: Yes, The(Who+Doctor) said it perfectly.
[21:31:12] +Charizard728: </3
[21:31:15] %VeryPinkPancakes: apparently Seito Hakari updated fos
[21:31:20] %VeryPinkPancakes: he just told me to say that
[21:31:26] %VeryPinkPancakes: @fos
[21:31:27] @Mafia Room Bot: Finger of Suspicion: A term used to direct attention to a suspicious player. It also can mean that the player who FOS'd a player might vote for that player, but does not want to do it themselves because of a certain situation. (ie: lylo, etc.)
[21:31:34] %VeryPinkPancakes: if you ever forget
[21:32:31] %VeryPinkPancakes: yeah have reasons why you should be town
[21:32:38] %VeryPinkPancakes: but also have a read on someone
[21:32:53] %VeryPinkPancakes: Because if you don't, that is fillering basically ^^
[21:33:16] %VeryPinkPancakes: anyway, that's all I've got to say
[21:33:21] %VeryPinkPancakes: The(Who+Doctor) or Charizard728 anything else?
[21:33:26] +Charizard728: I heard this from someone on a debate team once: "If you're explaining, you're losing."
[21:33:39] %VeryPinkPancakes: hey that's good advice
[21:33:47] +Charizard728: So like, if you're constantly giving reasons why you're town for no reason, it could be seen as a scum tell.
[21:33:53] %VeryPinkPancakes: ^
[21:33:56] %VeryPinkPancakes: and keep it simple
[21:34:08] %The(Who+Doctor)²: @pls
[21:34:12] %The(Who+Doctor)²: @phs
[21:34:12] @Mafia Room Bot: Perps Hate Silence: Criminals always feel the need to defend themselves, and can't stand quiet thinking space, so scum sill likely be louder than town under pressure, or during Mylo/Lylo situations.
[21:34:23] %The(Who+Doctor)²: will, not sill*
[21:34:37] %VeryPinkPancakes: if you have to explain why a portion of your read is true, it's probably nitpicking/too acute
[21:34:54] %VeryPinkPancakes: PM ME any final questions Now!! I will post in chat and we will go over them!
[21:35:07] %VeryPinkPancakes: Only questions about scumhunting
[21:35:17] %VeryPinkPancakes: it is important that you understand :>
[21:35:27] %VeryPinkPancakes: Should I mh
[21:35:28] %VeryPinkPancakes: y/n
[21:35:42] %The(Who+Doctor)²: Next workshop is theme-specific scumhunting, like Dethy, Double Dethy, or Mod.exe that are very specified
[21:35:44] +Charizard728: I noticed there's a lot on the doc about authhate ;;
[21:35:49] %The(Who+Doctor)²: I dealt withit
[21:35:52] %VeryPinkPancakes: [21:35:29] conor3197: conor3197: How can u use other peoples reads to ur advantage < we covered this in FOS
[21:35:55] +Charizard728: jsyk auth are people too
[21:36:07] %VeryPinkPancakes: yeah I like to play by ignoring the symbols lo
[21:36:10] %The(Who+Doctor)²: conor I covered that in the questions doc too
[21:36:13] %VeryPinkPancakes: ^
[21:36:21] %The(Who+Doctor)²: Here's the thing about auth hate
[21:36:29] %VeryPinkPancakes: you should never ever use it
[21:36:30] %VeryPinkPancakes: :D
[21:36:30] %The(Who+Doctor)²: If we went onto an alt that you didn't know, we'd never die
[21:36:36] +ImmaFirinMahLazer: ^
[21:36:38] %The(Who+Doctor)²: SO why kill us because you recognize the name?
[21:36:54] %The(Who+Doctor)²: Now, if I seem like I'm playing as as Town PR, be my guest
[21:37:20] %The(Who+Doctor)²: But killing me because I'm a good player and you fear the Twidbo™ is bad
[21:37:32] %VeryPinkPancakes: >gets tm sign from unicode on phone
[21:37:45] %VeryPinkPancakes: Yes, authhate is terrible. Don't do it.
[21:37:55] %VeryPinkPancakes: and for anyone who doesn't know what it is (?)
[21:37:57] %VeryPinkPancakes: @ata
[21:37:57] @Mafia Room Bot: Appeal to Authority: Relying overmuch on the arguments of "older, wiser" players. "Spieky is RO. Therefore he is always right!!!"
[21:38:03] %VeryPinkPancakes: The opposite of that ^
[21:38:07] %The(Who+Doctor)²: sparkychild, do you have a pastebin ofeverything?
[21:38:11] %VeryPinkPancakes: no
[21:38:14] %VeryPinkPancakes: The(Who+Doctor) I've got the second half
[21:38:16] %The(Who+Doctor)²: okay
[21:38:17] %The(Who+Doctor)²: bless you
[21:38:24] %The(Who+Doctor)²: hobbes2 would kill me
[21:38:50] %The(Who+Doctor)²: Alright, if you'd like to review past workshops, there is a mafia forum page with Hobbes2's lovely voiceovers
[21:38:55] %VeryPinkPancakes: !roomintro
[21:38:57] %VeryPinkPancakes: ^
[21:39:02] %VeryPinkPancakes: Are we done?
[21:39:06] %The(Who+Doctor)²: WOrkshop 2 will be posted shortly, workshop 1 is already up, and workshop 3 should be done by like midway through this week
[21:39:10] %The(Who+Doctor)²: Yeah, I think so
[21:39:19] %The(Who+Doctor)²: Thanks for listening to the lovely VeryPinkPancakes!
[21:39:22] %VeryPinkPancakes: thank you :D please give feedback
[21:39:27] %VeryPinkPancakes: @modchat off