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- [15:56:46] #AM: hi everyone welcome to TA Workshop we'll be covering Monotype today in a moment we'll poll some types we can work on. The idea is to try and build a team for Gen8Mono, Natdex Mono, and possibly USUM Mono if time permits and how maroon would like to direct
- [15:56:46] roxiee was promoted to Room Whitelist by maroon.
- [15:56:51] roxiee: gm
- [15:57:04] +Katy: hi roxiee
- [15:57:06] @maroon: lets come up w/ 5 types for the poll
- [15:57:10] +Katy: y
- [15:57:12] roxiee: hey
- [15:57:14] +Katy: 5 types sounds good
- [15:57:28] #AM: ground was suggested so lets go with that as an option
- [15:57:41] @maroon: dark flying water steel fairy
- [15:57:43] @maroon: o
- [15:57:44] @maroon: tht 2
- [15:57:50] #AM: we can poll 6
- [15:58:18] #AM: /announce if you guys have questions or suggestions feel free to pm staff such s myself and I can share when needed
- [15:58:19] A poll was started by maroon.
- [15:59:35] #Yellow Paint: yup, feel free to pm me as well
- [16:00:02] @maroon: ^^
- [16:01:16] Decem: im here
- [16:01:25] #AM: [16:01:16] Stockfish 12: Most consistent type?
- [16:01:31] #AM: general question
- [16:01:40] Decem: elec and fly
- [16:01:44] @maroon: sniped
- [16:01:57] #AM: reason being just for those unaware?
- [16:02:11] #AM: im clueless about mono for example so would be good to know
- [16:02:18] @maroon: flying has a ton of options allowing it to take on a variety of different types
- [16:02:31] @maroon: and a decent amount of immunities
- [16:02:42] #AM: ic
- [16:02:43] @maroon: so it is both defensively are offensively good
- [16:02:47] @maroon: allowing it to excel
- [16:03:05] #AM: makes sense what about electric before we get to building?
- [16:03:16] @maroon: elec is good mainly bz of terrain and its abusers, tapu koko also being able to provide great coverage with gknot and dgleam
- [16:03:18] @maroon: also help it out
- [16:03:29] @maroon: specs zapdos has gained popularity on the type as well
- [16:03:41] @maroon: allowing it to take on types like grass better or threats such as kyurem
- [16:04:18] #AM: ic
- [16:04:25] roxiee: Dracozolt is also one thats been shined on in MWP as it breaks Steel- and Poison-teams better with Sub + 3 Atks
- [16:04:30] #AM: so ground was picked where do we start?
- [16:04:52] @maroon: ok theres a few options with ground
- [16:04:55] roxiee: We'd probably decide on whether the team is going to be sand or sandless for one
- [16:05:01] @maroon: i think the 2 basic routes to start are whether deciding
- [16:05:05] @maroon: u want to build with sand
- [16:05:07] @maroon: or no sand
- [16:05:24] #AM: pros and cons?
- [16:05:48] @maroon: sand obviously allows excadrill to become a dangerous threat
- [16:06:30] @maroon: with cb + sand rush it can take on threats such as zarude with x-scissor which is used rn and then helps like ground break dark as well as being a general powerhouse
- [16:06:44] @maroon: however theres less options u can go with when building sand
- [16:07:13] @maroon: its already somewhat defined by sand+exca+a water immune being packed in from the start
- [16:07:30] #AM: okay so how about the non sand variants what would you do there?
- [16:07:42] #AM: I guess pack more immunities/resists ofc
- [16:07:47] #AM: [16:07:37] Coolcodename: Can u explain some mons that don’t fit in mono ground sand
- [16:08:25] @Decem: standard ground is sand
- [16:08:26] @Decem: ftr
- [16:08:31] @Decem: sandless is unexplored but
- [16:08:35] @Decem: its possible
- [16:08:43] @Decem: the main benefit is not running hippowdon for another slot
- [16:08:47] @Decem: if you want to go for another type of team
- [16:09:02] @Decem: like in sm sandless ground was p big because there were more options building wise with z moves and megas
- [16:09:44] #AM: hm okay maybe a sand option would be better
- [16:09:50] A poll was started by maroon.
- [16:09:56] #AM: but let's take a vote
- [16:11:49] #AM: Im going to try and keep paste updated maroon we can use !code command to share current sets/builds
- [16:11:57] #AM: it'll be quicker than doing a pokepaste everytime
- [16:12:01] #AM: until its being finalized
- [16:12:18] @maroon: ye
- [16:12:21] @maroon: ty
- [16:12:31] @maroon: ok
- [16:12:37] @maroon: were building sand then
- [16:12:48] #AM: so I guess the obvious is sand setter/exca
- [16:12:51] @maroon: hippowdon+excadrill are pretty much necessary
- [16:13:05] @maroon: roxiee mateeus decem
- [16:13:07] @maroon: maki
- [16:13:13] @maroon: any suggestions for this
- [16:13:23] @maroon: standard cb drill w/ x-scissor
- [16:13:36] roxiee: We building around CB or SD
- [16:13:43] @maroon: should i poll that
- [16:13:50] #AM: up to you guys
- [16:13:53] @maroon: ye ok
- [16:13:59] #AM: maybe get a composition going
- [16:14:03] #AM: for blueprint
- [16:14:23] #AM: just focusing on putting import together as we go along
- [16:14:29] @maroon: ok
- [16:14:30] A poll was started by maroon.
- [16:14:46] #AM: /announce if you have any questions please feel free to let staff know
- [16:14:58] #AM: [16:14:51] Stockfish 12: What mons work around SD a drill as opposed to CB?
- [16:15:45] #AM: [16:15:39] Coolcodename: Is bright powder garchomp a thing in mono?
- [16:15:45] @maroon: its i wouldnt say as much about what mons work with the sets
- [16:15:46] @maroon: as more
- [16:15:52] @maroon: how they allow excadrill to play
- [16:15:54] roxiee: I think some potential options are are Water Absorber like Seismitoad and Gastrodon. I also feel like Choice Band Excadrill appreciates Gravity Landorus
- [16:15:59] @maroon: like sd gives u max 3 sand turns
- [16:16:02] roxiee: are Water Absorbers*
- [16:16:05] @maroon: which is fine if u have rapid spin
- [16:16:09] @maroon: since u get some speed
- [16:16:17] @maroon: but band u get more immediate damage
- [16:16:28] @maroon: !code
- SiliconVGC: In my opinion, band is suboptmal, it increases damage output, but it creates a reliance on switching that doesn't mesh well with 5 turn sand
- maroon: what would u suggest then
- SiliconVGC: life orb, lefties, or sash
- [16:16:29] #AM: so we're going with band
- [16:16:31] @maroon: ye
- [16:16:33] +Katy: ya
- [16:16:36] @maroon: to answer this q
- [16:16:40] @maroon: @siliconvgc
- [16:16:56] @maroon: band does the most damage output and needs the least support to start cleaning
- [16:16:58] roxiee: I'd say something like Life Orb or Lum is more consistent than Bright Powder, its more reliable
- [16:17:11] @maroon: whereas lo while it can do the same chips excadrill far 2 quickly leaving it p open to prio atks
- [16:17:12] #AM: Coolcodename roxies answer is for you
- [16:17:16] @maroon: like sucker and aqua jet
- [16:17:40] @maroon: leftovers can work with a swords dance set, but again less immediate power and more timing needed to setup
- [16:17:48] @maroon: then sash is just purely suboptimal
- [16:17:49] #AM: ok so what does band excadrill run besides eq, x-scissor/
- [16:17:55] +Mateeus_1: iron head and rock slide
- [16:18:05] @maroon: iron head rapid spin/rock slide
- [16:18:13] roxiee: ya, earthquake, iron head, x-scizzor, slide/spin
- [16:18:18] #AM: adamant/jolly?
- [16:18:24] @maroon: adamant
- [16:18:27] +Mateeus_1: adamant
- [16:18:33] #AM: word
- [16:18:36] @maroon: the only reason cb drill ran jolly in usm and natdex is
- [16:18:44] @maroon: cuz scarf greninja outpaces adamant
- [16:18:48] #AM: ah
- [16:18:51] @maroon: but since it doesnt really exist in ss
- [16:18:51] +Mateeus_1: and even then
- [16:18:57] +Mateeus_1: ada was kinda an option too
- [16:19:00] @maroon: no reason to not use ada
- [16:19:08] @maroon: ye it was, just some ran jolly bz of it
- [16:19:12] #AM: ok so mentions of wter absorbers up above
- [16:19:27] @maroon: so seismitoad and gastrodon
- [16:19:39] @maroon: the difference between the two
- [16:19:40] #AM: quick run down before we get to that what does these archetypes usually need/cover
- [16:19:43] #AM: in general
- [16:19:45] @maroon: is gastrodon is more of a wall
- [16:19:56] @maroon: whereas seis is more of an offensive presence
- [16:20:03] roxiee: Seismitoad notably stops Belly Drum Azumarill and its yeah more offensive than gastrodon
- [16:20:06] @maroon: in my mind gastrodon is the better mon by far due to recovery
- [16:20:07] @maroon: but
- [16:20:23] @maroon: some threats like azumarill make seismitoad an appealing option
- [16:20:39] +Mateeus_1: Gastro also forms a defensive fallback with Hippowdon as well
- [16:21:02] @maroon: !code
- Excadrill @ Choice Band
- Ability: Sand Rush
- EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Adamant Nature
- - Earthquake
- - Iron Head
- - X-Scissor
- - Rapid Spin / Rock Slide
- [16:21:29] #AM: what is hippo set and perhaps we can decide on gastro/toad when the othr partners are filled in?
- [16:21:48] +Katy: sounds like a plan
- [16:22:04] @maroon: well since we went with choice band drill
- [16:22:09] @maroon: i would say leftovers is superior
- [16:22:25] @maroon: since eject button is used mainly to give excadrill more sand time
- [16:22:30] @maroon: cuz sd is so pressed for it
- [16:22:40] roxiee: well
- [16:23:08] roxiee: i could see ebutton keeping the momentum up to bring exca in safely with gravity lando-t
- [16:23:28] @maroon: ye tht is a possibility
- [16:23:33] roxiee: but id assume uturn landot is an option
- [16:23:52] @maroon: how about we leave hippowdon in the builder for now
- [16:23:56] @maroon: and decide its set
- [16:24:01] @maroon: after we add some more teammates
- [16:24:05] #AM: yes
- [16:24:30] @maroon: now i think 2 good options to add are
- [16:24:34] @maroon: as roxiee mention landot
- [16:24:39] @maroon: and the other being nidoking
- [16:24:49] @maroon: nidoking kinda acts like landoi does for ground
- [16:24:53] @maroon: ofc not as good
- [16:24:53] #AM: [16:24:37] SiliconVGC: mamoswine and ice beam quagsire also allow excadrill to come in safely on landorus
- [16:24:59] @maroon: but the sheer force is appreciates
- [16:25:13] @maroon: mamoswine does indeed force lando out
- [16:25:14] #AM: lando-i is banned right?
- [16:25:17] @maroon: ye
- [16:25:29] @maroon: quagsire isnt really used in ss
- [16:25:45] @maroon: and only found itself on fat ground builds w/ mega steelix in gen7
- [16:26:29] #AM: feel like nidoking covers the offensive spectrum with excadrill?
- [16:26:30] roxiee: I'm not really sure what Ice Beam Quagsire does and it doesn't sound better than Mamo/Nido with Ice coverage but coming in safely refers to pivoting like U-turn or in this case: Eject Button Hippo after Lando-T uses Gravity
- [16:27:17] +Ika Ika Musume: You really cant get what nidoking offers anywhere else in ground other than Lando-i or offensive seismitoad if you are being very budget
- [16:27:37] A poll was started by maroon.
- [16:27:56] @maroon: Coolcodename: Why is lando I banded
- [16:28:09] @maroon: comparatively to other gens
- [16:28:16] @maroon: this has a few different keys
- [16:28:33] @maroon: other generations had access to more pokemon that could check it as well as the loss of hidden power
- [16:28:38] @maroon: made it much harder to check
- [16:29:41] roxiee: its high spa and coverage, access to gravity to check floating/flying types, and even knock off for pokemon like slowking makes it too much as well
- [16:29:58] roxiee: lack of hp ice is huge
- [16:30:16] #Yellow Paint: banded lando i?
- [16:30:28] #Yellow Paint: ah nvm banned
- [16:30:55] @maroon: !code
- Excadrill @ Choice Band
- Ability: Sand Rush
- EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Adamant Nature
- - Earthquake
- - Iron Head
- - X-Scissor
- - Rapid Spin
- Hippowdon @ Eject Button
- Ability: Sand Stream
- EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
- Impish Nature
- - Stealth Rock
- - Earthquake
- - Slack Off
- - Whirlwind
- Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
- Ability: Intimidate
- EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Jolly Nature
- - Bulk Up
- - Substitute
- - Earthquake
- - Gravity
- [16:31:05] @maroon: so what this landot does
- [16:31:15] @maroon: is basically take advantage of passive pokemon
- [16:31:31] @maroon: like say celesteela without flamethrower or air slash
- [16:31:49] @maroon: vs steel teams and generally useful for getting rid of ground immunes
- [16:31:59] @maroon: allowing the team to better handle mons like steela
- [16:32:04] #AM: looks good so far
- [16:32:09] @maroon: as well as letting cb drill go crazy
- [16:32:11] #AM: that makes sense
- [16:32:15] +Katy: ya looks good
- [16:32:40] #AM: so I guess you have the other two slots and then the water absorber. Im assuming one slot is going to be to cover the grasses/ice
- [16:32:44] roxiee: i think offensive seis looks really good here tbh
- [16:32:45] @maroon: ye
- [16:33:01] +Mateeus_1: yeah water-breaking seis
- [16:33:04] @maroon: roxiee can you code the set
- [16:33:06] @maroon: u were thinking
- [16:33:06] +Ika Ika Musume: not that it applies in this particular case, but gravity also has a secondary effect of increasing accuracy of otherwise risker poves
- [16:33:08] +Mateeus_1: synergizes well with this
- [16:33:10] @maroon: the sub pup pwhip
- [16:33:10] @maroon: ?
- [16:33:13] +Mateeus_1: ya
- [16:33:29] roxiee: idk its like 3 sets
- [16:33:35] roxiee: av / sub special / sub phy
- [16:33:36] #AM: roxiee are you able to code?
- [16:33:45] roxiee: one sec let me gather them
- [16:33:54] #Yellow Paint: SiliconVGC: I still think quagsire could be a good addition to this team to prevent threats like bulk up urshifu and dragon dance dnite from sweeping
- [16:33:55] #AM: ok may not be able to if anything one of us can do it
- [16:34:04] @maroon: oh ill do it
- [16:34:26] #AM: word
- [16:34:28] #Yellow Paint: yeah whitelist can't do !code
- [16:34:33] #AM: gg
- [16:35:13] #AM: so besides the toad set what else would we need now?
- [16:35:19] +Maki: toad set?
- [16:35:21] +Maki: i can paste it
- [16:35:23] @maroon: ty
- [16:35:27] @maroon: i dont have it my builder
- [16:35:28] @maroon: L
- [16:35:31] +Maki: !code
- Seismitoad @ Leftovers
- Ability: Water Absorb
- EVs: 212 HP / 192 Atk / 104 Spe
- Adamant Nature
- - Substitute
- - Earthquake
- - Power Whip
- - Power-Up Punch
- [16:35:31] #AM: maki feel free to code it
- [16:35:32] +Maki: this right
- [16:35:34] #AM: sniped
- [16:35:35] @maroon: yes
- [16:35:42] #AM: that looks heat
- [16:35:44] +Maki: yeah
- [16:35:49] +Maki: speed allows it to creep adamant crawdaunt
- [16:35:49] +Mateeus_1: regarding @SificonVGC, usually Hippowdon is able to deal with those, and you have offensive pressure to do so as well
- [16:35:58] @maroon: hmm
- [16:36:00] @maroon: im thinking
- [16:36:03] +Maki: and hp allows sub to bulk night shadow / stoss from things like bliss or corsola
- [16:36:05] @maroon: if we should make it 220 speed
- [16:36:09] roxiee: i sent maroon some spa sets, but if we do with this, we should prob be using nidoking 100%
- [16:36:12] @maroon: so we also outpace the 44 spe rotom
- [16:36:16] +Mateeus_1: i like 220 for rotowash
- [16:36:16] @maroon: tho idt they exist much
- [16:36:22] @maroon: with no azu being jolly
- [16:36:24] +Mateeus_1: better to be safe imo
- [16:36:26] roxiee: rotom-wash is nice ye
- [16:36:51] #AM: !code
- Excadrill @ Choice Band
- Ability: Sand Rush
- EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Adamant Nature
- - Earthquake
- - Iron Head
- - X-Scissor
- - Rapid Spin
- Hippowdon @ Eject Button
- Ability: Sand Stream
- EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
- Impish Nature
- - Stealth Rock
- - Earthquake
- - Slack Off
- - Whirlwind
- Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
- Ability: Intimidate
- EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Jolly Nature
- - Bulk Up
- - Substitute
- - Earthquake
- - Gravity
- Seismitoad @ Leftovers
- Ability: Water Absorb
- EVs: 212 HP / 152 Atk / 144 Spe
- Adamant Nature
- - Substitute
- - Earthquake
- - Power Whip
- - Power-Up Punch
- [16:37:02] @maroon: sniped
- [16:37:03] @maroon: ok
- [16:37:06] @maroon: last few options
- [16:37:18] +Katy: what about chomp?
- [16:37:26] +Katy: he can also profit from gravy
- [16:37:28] @maroon: are nidoking mamoswine steelix
- [16:37:30] @maroon: chomp
- [16:37:36] @maroon: i would say
- [16:37:42] @maroon: id like chomp here
- [16:37:44] +Mateeus_1: i like garchomp here ya
- [16:37:49] @maroon: esp seeing how prevalent
- [16:37:51] @maroon: kyu is rn
- [16:37:56] @maroon: its nice having a faster check
- [16:38:06] +Katy: ya
- [16:38:07] #AM: [16:37:59] Stockfish 12: How will hail be stopped from here?
- [16:38:11] #AM: im assuming mono ice
- [16:38:13] +Katy: and chomp is threatening
- [16:38:22] +Katy: ya mono ice has hail
- [16:38:24] @maroon: mono ice needs aurora veil
- [16:38:27] +Katy: ninetales alola and such
- [16:38:27] @maroon: so u wanna setup sand
- [16:38:32] @maroon: whenever ninetales comes in
- [16:38:38] @maroon: excadrill can damage ice types p good
- [16:38:41] @maroon: with cb iron head
- [16:38:45] +Mateeus_1: usually @Stockfish 12 you need to play carefully around their weather condition and get Excadrill under sand
- [16:38:53] +Mateeus_1: it's definitely a winnable mu
- [16:38:56] @maroon: setting sand up prevents it from getting up aurora veil
- [16:39:09] @maroon: ofc avalugg can be annoying so u wanna use your special attackers to break it
- [16:39:18] +Ika Ika Musume: Is sand veil garchomp actually legal in monotype?
- [16:39:20] @maroon: we dont really have any rn
- [16:39:25] @maroon: ye it is
- [16:39:36] @maroon: since we are adding garchomp
- [16:39:38] +Ika Ika Musume: It works counter to gravity anyways, but I was just looking into it
- [16:39:42] @maroon: i think the 6th should be nidoking
- [16:39:48] #AM: makes sense
- [16:39:50] @maroon: considering we dont have any spa rn
- [16:40:17] roxiee: yo honestly
- [16:40:27] roxiee: this team can do really good against hail with ebutton hippo
- [16:40:29] +Katy: so chomp and nido?
- [16:40:30] roxiee: + band exca
- [16:40:35] +Mateeus_1: ya chomp and nido
- [16:40:39] @maroon: ok
- [16:40:45] @maroon: one thing im questioning rn
- [16:40:48] @maroon: nidokings set
- [16:40:51] @maroon: we have gravity lando
- [16:41:01] @maroon: so im wondering if we wanna give up flamethrower
- [16:41:07] +Mateeus_1: do we _really_ need a special attacker
- [16:41:09] @maroon: for tspikes or sludge wave
- [16:41:17] @maroon: since landot breaks steel for us
- [16:41:21] +Maki: nido seems really nice esp since flying could be troublesome without a mamo
- [16:41:30] roxiee: wait
- [16:41:36] roxiee: what lando spread are we using
- [16:41:36] @maroon: !code
- Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
- Ability: Sheer Force
- EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Timid Nature
- IVs: 0 Atk
- - x
- - Ice Beam
- - Thunderbolt
- - Toxic Spikes
- [16:41:44] @maroon: max hp max spe
- [16:41:55] +Mateeus_1: Earth Power is still the best STAB even on Ground imo
- [16:41:56] #AM: wouldnt you still want earth power to deal with things like ferro?
- [16:42:01] +Mateeus_1: ^ yes
- [16:42:10] @maroon: ye
- [16:42:14] @maroon: and take adv of gravity
- [16:42:23] +Mateeus_1: i think we could opt for sub > tspikes as well
- [16:42:29] roxiee: ehh
- [16:42:31] +Mateeus_1: to better deal with the v popular flying
- [16:42:41] @maroon: i guess its an option
- [16:42:45] @maroon: it would be nice
- [16:42:48] @maroon: since mamo isnt here
- [16:42:50] +Katy: ya its an option tho
- [16:42:54] +Katy: imho
- [16:42:56] +Katy: considerable
- [16:43:00] @Decem: i think u want epower on all nidos
- [16:43:05] roxiee: ^
- [16:43:14] @maroon: 252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Nidoking: 63-74 (20.7 - 24.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
- [16:43:18] @maroon: ok ye
- [16:43:21] @maroon: sub can work
- [16:43:29] roxiee: [16:43:10] SiliconVGC: I recommended 196 hp to maximize lefties recovery, but I never got a response
- [16:43:31] roxiee: silicon said this
- [16:43:46] @maroon: i mean i guess but its arbitary
- [16:43:56] @maroon: plus u get more leftys recovery
- [16:43:57] @maroon: with max hp
- [16:44:08] @maroon: right
- [16:44:15] #AM: its based on 16ths
- [16:44:28] #AM: its a bit arbitrary though
- [16:44:40] @maroon: like unless the extra spd or def do something
- [16:44:43] @maroon: its not worth it
- [16:44:54] @maroon: better to keep it in overall bulk
- [16:45:01] @maroon: !code
- Excadrill @ Choice Band
- Ability: Sand Rush
- EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Adamant Nature
- - Earthquake
- - Iron Head
- - X-Scissor
- - Rapid Spin
- Hippowdon @ Eject Button
- Ability: Sand Stream
- EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
- Impish Nature
- - Stealth Rock
- - Earthquake
- - Slack Off
- - Whirlwind
- Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
- Ability: Intimidate
- EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Jolly Nature
- - Bulk Up
- - Substitute
- - Earthquake
- - Gravity
- Seismitoad @ Leftovers
- Ability: Water Absorb
- EVs: 212 HP / 152 Atk / 144 Spe
- Adamant Nature
- - Substitute
- - Earthquake
- - Power Whip
- - Power-Up Punch
- Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
- Ability: Sheer Force
- EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Timid Nature
- IVs: 0 Atk
- - Earth Power
- - Ice Beam
- - Thunderbolt
- - Substitute
- [16:45:02] @maroon: ok
- [16:45:07] @maroon: which garchomp set now
- [16:45:12] #AM: chomper?
- [16:45:20] roxiee: oh we using chomp?
- [16:45:24] @maroon: ye
- [16:45:27] @maroon: kyurem check
- [16:45:31] @maroon: i like sd scale shot
- [16:45:32] @maroon: for it
- [16:45:37] #AM: do kyurems run scarf?
- [16:45:37] +Katy: same
- [16:45:41] +Maki: no
- [16:45:43] +Mateeus_1: I think either SD + Scale or Scarf on this team
- [16:45:44] #AM: gotcha
- [16:45:44] @maroon: mostly sub boots sheninigans
- [16:45:45] +Katy: not rly
- [16:45:49] +Maki: boots / specs are what you'll se
- [16:45:58] roxiee: nah but i was thinking krook too but that works
- [16:46:03] +Katy: sd scale is nice pseudo dd
- [16:46:20] @maroon: !code
- Garchomp @ Life Orb
- Ability: Rough Skin
- EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Jolly Nature
- - Swords Dance
- - Scale Shot
- - Earthquake
- - Stone Edge
- [16:46:24] #AM: does sd run like scale shot, eq, fire fang?
- [16:46:26] +Katy: and gives us some more offensive power
- [16:46:28] #AM: oh edge
- [16:46:28] @maroon: i think we should go for stone edge
- [16:46:30] @maroon: mainly to hit
- [16:46:32] #AM: zap
- [16:46:33] @maroon: things like goltres
- [16:46:35] @maroon: which is insane
- [16:46:37] @maroon: and zapdos
- [16:46:39] #AM: ok that makes sense
- [16:46:41] @maroon: esp the newer specs set
- [16:46:46] +Mateeus_1: edge + eq also lets us rip through dark's defensive core
- [16:46:46] @maroon: that can be fairly annoying
- [16:46:53] +Mateeus_1: which is def very nice for this team
- [16:46:56] @maroon: !code
- Excadrill @ Choice Band
- Ability: Sand Rush
- EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Adamant Nature
- - Earthquake
- - Iron Head
- - X-Scissor
- - Rapid Spin
- Hippowdon @ Eject Button
- Ability: Sand Stream
- EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
- Impish Nature
- - Stealth Rock
- - Earthquake
- - Slack Off
- - Whirlwind
- Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
- Ability: Intimidate
- EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Jolly Nature
- - Bulk Up
- - Substitute
- - Earthquake
- - Gravity
- Seismitoad @ Leftovers
- Ability: Water Absorb
- EVs: 212 HP / 152 Atk / 144 Spe
- Adamant Nature
- - Substitute
- - Earthquake
- - Power Whip
- - Power-Up Punch
- Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
- Ability: Sheer Force
- EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Timid Nature
- IVs: 0 Atk
- - Earth Power
- - Ice Beam
- - Thunderbolt
- - Substitute
- Garchomp @ Life Orb
- Ability: Rough Skin
- EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Jolly Nature
- - Swords Dance
- - Scale Shot
- - Earthquake
- - Stone Edge
- [16:47:05] @maroon: this seems like a nice overall product
- [16:47:11] @maroon: does anyone have questions or comments
- [16:47:34] #AM: lets do questions/comments for like 2 minutes then if everything is good we can try to do a natdex mono team
- [16:48:00] #AM: idk if we'll be able to get usum in but ty for everyone helping and doing great
- [16:48:02] @maroon: idm doing either natdex or sm
- [16:48:06] @maroon: well see what they want
- [16:48:10] roxiee: poll?!
- [16:48:11] #AM: that sounds good eithr or
- [16:48:12] @maroon: ye
- [16:48:15] @Decem: we doing sm?
- [16:48:17] #AM: lets poll after
- [16:48:19] roxiee: might as well but the og oras and bw up
- [16:48:20] @maroon: potentially
- [16:48:22] roxiee: put*
- [16:48:22] @maroon: sm or natdex
- [16:48:23] #AM: we get any questions
- [16:48:24] @maroon: ppls choice
- [16:48:44] A poll was started by maroon.
- [16:48:55] @maroon: well be doing questions
- [16:48:58] @maroon: while the polls up
- [16:49:06] #AM: https://pokepast.es/165d3516b8825ac0
- [16:49:12] #AM: im assuming this is final product?
- [16:49:54] +Mateeus_1: triple sub mayhem
- [16:49:55] +Mateeus_1: i like it
- [16:50:14] #AM: yeah it looks clean especially offsetting rillaboom matchups
- [16:50:22] roxiee: gotta run at least 3 sub users on all ur teams
- [16:50:26] @maroon: oh man
- [16:50:31] @maroon: rillaboom no stopping it
- [16:50:31] #AM: I assume those are tough to deal with in grounds?
- [16:50:33] @maroon: once sd is up
- [16:50:33] roxiee: well
- [16:50:36] @maroon: ganhamos
- [16:50:41] @maroon: it can kinda be checked
- [16:50:43] @maroon: but its tough
- [16:50:52] #AM: I mean how do you usually stop it?
- [16:50:53] roxiee: steelix is an option tbf , its c on the vr for a reason but this team is solid
- [16:50:57] @maroon: prob best chance is nido or chmp
- [16:51:00] #AM: it doesnt seem like you can
- [16:51:04] @maroon: roxiee ye
- [16:51:04] +Mateeus_1: Grass as a whole is kinda unstoppable for Ground
- [16:51:07] +Mateeus_1: this gen
- [16:51:10] #AM: but I assume some matchups are always rough
- [16:51:11] @maroon: but adding steelix seemed like a momentum drain
- [16:51:13] @maroon: for this team
- [16:51:15] @Decem: u bank on them not grassing
- [16:51:17] roxiee: yeah not this team
- [16:51:18] +Mateeus_1: rillaboom is already a mountain to climb
- [16:51:20] +Mateeus_1: then they got
- [16:51:22] +Mateeus_1: 5 more mons
- [16:51:23] roxiee: gastro + steelix is a nice core
- [16:51:23] @Decem: grass isnt that good imo so its nbd
- [16:51:33] #AM: ic
- [16:51:54] @maroon: (in sm and natdex grass is v good)
- [16:52:24] +Mateeus_1: eh its antimeta
- [16:52:25] @Decem: if there were more moves like grassy glide
- [16:52:28] @Decem: mono would be so unbalanced
- [16:53:03] @maroon: theres 4 based terrain moves
- [16:53:07] @maroon: luckily only 1 gives prio
- [16:53:15] @maroon: whats fairys ngl i forgot
- [16:53:19] +Mateeus_1: misty boooom
- [16:53:21] @Decem: misty boom
- [16:53:26] @maroon: woat
- [16:53:26] @maroon: LOL
- [16:53:37] roxiee: lol i remember that misty boom team in mpl
- [16:53:41] #Yellow Paint: misty boom sobad
- [16:53:50] +Mateeus_1: !dt misty explosion
- [16:53:51] +Mateeus_1: lul
- [16:53:54] roxiee: it was a hatterene that used it lmao
- [16:54:01] #AM: so natdex is up next
- [16:54:07] @maroon: yep
- [16:54:10] @maroon: gonna adv it rq
- [16:54:10] #AM: I guess we can try something other than ground for natdex
- [16:54:22] roxiee: ice ice baby
- [16:54:23] #AM: up to you guys
- [16:54:25] @Decem: link game roxiee
- [16:54:30] @Decem: ive never seen misty boom used in mono
- [16:54:32] +Mateeus_1: ya nat dex has a great diversity
- [16:54:37] #Yellow Paint: does ice build itself?
- [16:55:06] +Mateeus_1: oh wdym by building itself
- [16:55:16] #AM: where the slots are pretty much the same
- [16:55:22] #AM: for every ice build
- [16:55:22] +Mateeus_1: ohhhh
- [16:55:31] +Mateeus_1: you got some slots that are the same indeed
- [16:55:31] #AM: like hail/viel the hail mons etc.
- [16:55:43] itsrotten was promoted to Room Whitelist by maroon.
- [16:55:46] +Mateeus_1: but you can go some different ways yeah
- [16:55:50] @maroon: he will be on deck for natdex
- [16:55:57] #AM: excellent
- [16:56:03] @maroon: aight mat suggest some types
- [16:56:08] @maroon: i wanna throw in dark
- [16:56:09] +Mateeus_1: alright
- [16:56:10] @maroon: idm anything else
- [16:56:28] +Mateeus_1: ice grass water dragon fairy
- [16:56:34] roxiee: i think ice has some interesting stuff like ground-z sandslash, elect-z frost, water-z cloy
- [16:56:37] +Mateeus_1: electric is also nice
- [16:56:45] A poll was started by maroon.
- [16:56:59] #AM: maroon you read my mind
- [16:57:02] #AM: for 3 minutes heh
- [16:57:05] @maroon: L
- [16:57:07] @maroon: Win
- [16:57:42] itsrotten: i like dragon it's versatile
- [16:57:54] @maroon: i like dark
- [16:58:04] #AM: so for informational purposes what are usually best types and why in natdex mono?
- [16:58:06] @maroon: mostly bz i never feel satisfied
- [16:58:11] @maroon: with building a ho screens dark
- [16:58:17] @maroon: bz somethings lacking
- [16:58:31] @maroon: so i assume others feel the same typa way
- [16:58:51] @maroon: natdex mono has a ton of great types, similar to sm
- [16:58:58] @maroon: where is more viable then unviable
- [16:59:13] @maroon: ofc types like flying dark steel grass water psychic are p good
- [16:59:15] #AM: if there's a tie we can do quick tiebreaker vote
- [16:59:22] +Mateeus_1: I would say Dark, Fairy, and Psychic are prob the top 3 for me
- [16:59:40] roxiee: !poll display
- [16:59:45] roxiee: ice ice baby
- [16:59:46] #AM: ice ice baby
- [16:59:53] roxiee: ggwp
- [17:00:08] #AM: so I assume its a hail setter
- [17:00:11] #AM: to start us off
- [17:00:14] @maroon: ye
- [17:00:16] +Katy: ninetales
- [17:00:20] @maroon: alolan ninetales is a nonstarter
- [17:00:20] +Katy: no other way
- [17:00:23] itsrotten: ya we need ninetales
- [17:00:24] itsrotten: lol
- [17:00:25] @maroon: ive never seen a good ice team
- [17:00:27] @maroon: without it
- [17:00:32] #AM: why not up
- [17:00:34] +Katy: so its her?
- [17:00:38] #AM: !dt vanilluxe
- [17:00:40] roxiee: Alolan ninetales is the best setter amongst the other pokemon
- [17:00:43] #AM: the ie cream
- [17:00:47] +Katy: he too slow
- [17:00:51] +Mateeus_1: tales has a better speed tier
- [17:00:51] roxiee: faster, particial fairy typing
- [17:00:57] #AM: cool
- [17:01:02] #AM: no pun intended
- [17:01:02] @maroon: !code
- Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
- Ability: Snow Warning
- EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Timid Nature
- IVs: 0 Atk
- - Aurora Veil
- - Moonblast
- - Freeze-Dry
- - Encore
- [17:01:06] @maroon: this is the most standard set
- [17:01:17] roxiee: being slower than urshifu is a L
- [17:01:19] @maroon: also its fairy typing
- [17:01:21] @maroon: does alot for ice
- [17:01:23] itsrotten: i like that set
- [17:01:29] #AM: oh right ursh is a thing in natdexmono
- [17:01:31] @maroon: hits dark and fighting types
- [17:01:33] @maroon: which is really nice
- [17:01:37] @maroon: esp since urshifu is a thing now
- [17:02:01] #AM: so with that pretty much out of the way what are the next options we consider
- [17:02:07] roxiee: i think its crucial to determine who our z mover is tbh
- [17:02:07] #AM: is there a formula for these teams?
- [17:02:13] @maroon: i feel like ice is a types
- [17:02:16] @maroon: since its not as good
- [17:02:20] @maroon: u need to map it out more
- [17:02:27] @maroon: so we should focus on what type of ice
- [17:02:29] @maroon: we want to make
- [17:02:30] #AM: ok so it's not as linear
- [17:02:33] @maroon: so we can rlly focus in on it
- [17:02:59] +Mateeus_1: there are mainly
- [17:03:02] +Mateeus_1: 2 options Ice can go
- [17:03:05] Tico = 21 was promoted to Room Whitelist by maroon.
- [17:03:32] +Mateeus_1: something bulkier, that centers along Piloswine being the SR setter
- [17:03:43] #AM: !dt piloswine
- [17:03:44] @maroon: ive always wondered
- [17:03:45] +Mateeus_1: and abusing hail (which optionally uses Icy Rock on ATales)
- [17:03:48] @maroon: if this is insane
- [17:03:50] @maroon: or a good idea
- [17:03:58] @maroon: z move gorilla
- [17:04:05] #AM: darm-g?
- [17:04:07] @maroon: ye
- [17:04:08] +Mateeus_1: yeah
- [17:04:09] +Mateeus_1: it's allowed
- [17:04:11] #AM: man
- [17:04:13] +Maki: do zmoves work with the ability
- [17:04:14] +Sputnikk: im not a mono expert but i imagine thick fat is really nice for ice no?
- [17:04:15] #AM: sounds like a beast
- [17:04:17] +Mateeus_1: they do
- [17:04:20] @maroon: thts what i wanna know
- [17:04:23] @maroon: havent tried it out yet
- [17:04:26] +Sputnikk: z moves do work
- [17:04:27] +Maki: ik dynamax doesnt
- [17:04:30] @maroon: ok
- [17:04:30] roxiee: thick fat is always the default ability
- [17:04:31] +Maki: ya thick fat is definitely nice
- [17:04:33] +Mateeus_1: @Sputnikk Thick Fat + Eviolite Piloswine is the most reliable setter
- [17:04:36] +Mateeus_1: Ice has
- [17:04:41] +Sputnikk: i see
- [17:04:53] +Sputnikk: and yes z moves get the gorilla tactics boost
- [17:04:53] @maroon: !code
- Piloswine @ Eviolite
- Ability: Thick Fat
- EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD
- Careful Nature
- - Stealth Rock
- - Earthquake
- - Rock Slide
- - Toxic
- [17:04:57] @maroon: this is the only pilo set
- [17:04:58] +Sputnikk: groundium was a thing in natdex to lure pex
- [17:05:05] +Sputnikk: before it was banned
- [17:05:56] @maroon: what do we wanna go with it
- [17:05:59] +Mateeus_1: I think we could
- [17:06:01] +Mateeus_1: put a poll
- [17:06:01] @maroon: firium z darm groundium
- [17:06:05] roxiee: what does darm break
- [17:06:06] #AM: poll it imo
- [17:06:07] @maroon: lets brainstorm options
- [17:06:09] roxiee: is it like a lure for steel
- [17:06:10] @maroon: then poll it
- [17:06:13] #AM: ok
- [17:06:15] @maroon: so they have some stuff to go on
- [17:06:19] #AM: makes sense
- [17:06:32] #AM: I guess pros and cons maybe of directions we can go for?
- [17:06:32] +Maki: would you really need firium to kill anything
- [17:06:34] roxiee: z: darm/cloy/sandslash/frost
- [17:06:39] +Mateeus_1: SiliconVGC: I main ice mono, and from my experience, I've found that it's usually better to hit fast and hard, with perhaps some balance in sub/roost kyurem and cloyster.
- [17:06:58] +Maki: having like ground z might cool to hit a tran if they think you're locked?
- [17:07:03] @maroon: thats valid
- [17:07:09] @maroon: i honestly prefer
- [17:07:09] roxiee: ooo
- [17:07:15] @maroon: band darm + scarf weav
- [17:07:18] roxiee: and pursuit weavile to pop the heatran bubble
- [17:07:23] @maroon: but then u also need avalugg
- [17:07:28] @maroon: which means u only have 1 slot left
- [17:07:58] #AM: yeah at that point you force your options
- [17:08:21] @maroon: i personally dislike sandslash
- [17:08:27] @maroon: and rn we have pilo and ninetales
- [17:08:36] @maroon: so imo the possibilities are between
- [17:08:50] @maroon: darmg, weavile, kyurem, cloyster, avalugg, mamoswine
- [17:08:55] roxiee: avalugg doesnt seem to make much progress against steel from experience, any tier with aegislash blocking spin just seems iffy tho, ig it phazes scizor-mega but its like whats next
- [17:09:20] @maroon: i guess you could use the
- [17:09:27] @maroon: defensive spin cloyster
- [17:09:30] Tico = 21: you could try Earthquake Avalugg, but isnt that good
- [17:09:34] @maroon: but then tht feels to close to the stack ice
- [17:09:35] @maroon: from ss
- [17:09:35] roxiee: once roar and you could position heatran or special aegislash in
- [17:10:23] #AM: so we hav nintetales pilo now or are we just figuring out direction?
- [17:10:35] #AM: so pilo is the rock setter
- [17:10:49] #AM: what other applications does it have on mono ice?
- [17:11:04] +Mateeus_1: it doubles as the type's main specially defensive wall
- [17:11:08] @maroon: its also the volcarona check
- [17:11:15] @maroon: and zardx
- [17:11:21] #AM: what a beast
- [17:11:25] roxiee: ground typing also gives volt immunity so you arent spammed
- [17:12:19] @maroon: so
- [17:12:25] @maroon: right now i think we need removal
- [17:12:34] @maroon: then we can focus on what to do next
- [17:12:37] #AM: what are the usual options here?
- [17:12:47] +Mateeus_1: usually avalugg is the go-to remover
- [17:12:52] @maroon: avalugg and cloyster can work
- [17:12:52] +Mateeus_1: and physical wall
- [17:12:59] @maroon: i geniunely hate using sandslash
- [17:13:10] @maroon: i think with
- [17:13:12] roxiee: understandable
- [17:13:13] #AM: any reason why?
- [17:13:22] @maroon: it just does everything badly
- [17:13:27] @maroon: its a bad spinner
- [17:13:31] @maroon: its a poor attacker
- [17:13:32] #AM: ic
- [17:13:37] @maroon: weak and feels slow even in hail
- [17:13:44] @maroon: underwhelming
- [17:13:53] +Mateeus_1: yeah alolan sandslash is a bad mon in natdex
- [17:14:06] +Mateeus_1: it had a niche as a slush abuser / offensive spinner in SM
- [17:14:21] #AM: ok so I guess deciding on cloy/avalugg/remover then that opens up the decision making process more
- [17:14:22] @maroon: !code
- Avalugg @ Heavy-Duty Boots
- Ability: Sturdy
- EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
- Impish Nature
- IVs: 0 Atk
- - Body Press
- - Iron Defense
- - Recover
- - Rapid Spin
- [17:14:25] roxiee: i think i wanna hl SiliconVGC's message on ice needing to have a punch or some power especially to make progress or potentially win games
- [17:14:28] +Mateeus_1: but better slush rushers came, and you have heavy duty boots on the potential spinners
- [17:14:29] @maroon: i do think this is out best bet
- [17:14:34] @maroon: unless were using waterium z cloyster
- [17:14:39] @maroon: or we just fold to mega scizor
- [17:15:00] +Mateeus_1: i feel like avalanche + roar is prob better outside of the steel mu imo
- [17:15:01] #AM: roxiee point above probably will be easier to figure out though
- [17:15:02] roxiee: im fine with roar tbh
- [17:15:51] #AM: do we want to figure out the remover after we find other partners or is it better to figure that out now then partners
- [17:15:57] #AM: in terms of synergy
- [17:16:04] #AM: cause m-scizor does seem annoying
- [17:16:16] @maroon: i feel like
- [17:16:20] @maroon: a problem with ice
- [17:16:27] @maroon: is you feel like ur always missing a piece
- [17:16:34] roxiee: thats me rn
- [17:16:36] @maroon: nothing really compresses well enough
- [17:16:42] @maroon: so ur always struggling somewhere
- [17:16:46] #AM: hm okay
- [17:17:06] @maroon: roxiee mateeus+1
- [17:17:12] roxiee: maybe we could try focusing on matchups other than steel?
- [17:17:12] @maroon: if we use roar avalnache
- [17:17:19] @maroon: i think we should use the shell smash cloyster
- [17:17:23] +Mateeus_1: ^ yeah
- [17:17:24] @maroon: with waterz
- [17:17:27] roxiee: smash cloy is nice
- [17:17:30] +Mateeus_1: the shell smash cloyster is still great
- [17:17:43] #AM: worth a shot
- [17:17:58] +Mateeus_1: I think we could
- [17:18:00] +Mateeus_1: poll it
- [17:18:06] roxiee: the z mover or
- [17:18:09] @maroon: !code
- Cloyster @ Waterium Z
- Ability: Skill Link
- EVs: 112 Atk / 144 SpA / 252 Spe
- Naive Nature
- - Shell Smash
- - Icicle Spear
- - Hydro Pump
- - Rock Blast / Hidden Power Fire
- [17:18:16] @maroon: hpfire is kinda memy
- [17:18:22] @maroon: but it does well vs steel
- [17:18:24] +Mateeus_1: i think
- [17:18:25] @maroon: like vs ferrothorn
- [17:18:30] roxiee: it hits ferro yeah
- [17:18:43] +Mateeus_1: max spa w/ hp fire is more optimal imo
- [17:18:49] @maroon: ok
- [17:18:53] +Mateeus_1: not only versus steel
- [17:19:02] +Mateeus_1: but you don't miss anything
- [17:19:06] roxiee: ninetales + pilo + ava + cloy/z is our current i think
- [17:19:30] #AM: I like the idea of spatk invested cloyster it seems neat
- [17:19:37] #AM: with hp fire
- [17:19:42] +Mateeus_1: !code
- Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
- Ability: Snow Warning
- EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Timid Nature
- IVs: 0 Atk
- - Aurora Veil
- - Moonblast
- - Freeze-Dry
- - Encore
- [17:19:44] +Mateeus_1: of
- [17:19:46] +Mateeus_1: oh forgot
- [17:19:48] #AM: gg
- [17:19:50] roxiee: gg
- [17:19:53] roxiee: we restarting
- [17:19:57] #AM: lol
- [17:20:14] @maroon: !code
- Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
- Ability: Snow Warning
- EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Timid Nature
- IVs: 0 Atk
- - Aurora Veil
- - Moonblast
- - Freeze-Dry
- - Encore
- Piloswine @ Eviolite
- Ability: Thick Fat
- EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD
- Careful Nature
- - Stealth Rock
- - Earthquake
- - Rock Slide
- - Toxic
- Cloyster @ Waterium Z
- Ability: Skill Link
- EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Naive Nature
- - Shell Smash
- - Icicle Spear
- - Hydro Pump
- - Hidden Power [Fire]
- Avalugg @ Heavy-Duty Boots
- Ability: Sturdy
- - Avalanche
- - Roar
- - Recover
- - Rapid Spin
- [17:20:27] @maroon: oops make ava max hp max def bold
- [17:20:32] @maroon: impish
- [17:20:40] @maroon: !code
- Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
- Ability: Snow Warning
- EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Timid Nature
- IVs: 0 Atk
- - Aurora Veil
- - Moonblast
- - Freeze-Dry
- - Encore
- Piloswine @ Eviolite
- Ability: Thick Fat
- EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD
- Careful Nature
- - Stealth Rock
- - Earthquake
- - Rock Slide
- - Toxic
- Cloyster @ Waterium Z
- Ability: Skill Link
- EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Naive Nature
- - Shell Smash
- - Icicle Spear
- - Hydro Pump
- - Hidden Power [Fire]
- Avalugg @ Heavy-Duty Boots
- Ability: Sturdy
- EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
- Impish Nature
- - Avalanche
- - Roar
- - Recover
- - Rapid Spin
- [17:20:50] @maroon: ok so for last 2
- [17:20:56] @maroon: band darm + scarf weav
- [17:21:06] @maroon: ?
- [17:21:12] roxiee: do we break poison
- [17:21:13] +Avarice: i rly gotta remove ava from my highlights
- [17:21:22] #AM: lol our bad
- [17:21:44] @maroon: another thing
- [17:21:48] @maroon: abt cloyster
- [17:21:52] @maroon: now were max spa
- [17:21:59] @maroon: do we make it overcoat and replace icicle spear
- [17:22:13] #AM: hm
- [17:22:13] +Mateeus_1: SiliconVGC: I won't lie, this team seems way too passive as is, Ninetails-A's mediocre special attack doesn't bode well for its damage output, and cloyster needs a turn without immediate offensive pressure for it to become a threat
- [17:22:20] @maroon: ok
- [17:22:22] @maroon: i have an idea
- [17:22:28] @maroon: whether yall like it or not lmk
- [17:22:33] @maroon: delete avalugg
- [17:22:39] @maroon: and delete ice coverage on cloy
- [17:22:42] @maroon: for rapid spin
- [17:22:52] roxiee: that doesnt sound bad
- [17:22:55] roxiee: we compress more roles
- [17:22:58] @maroon: ye
- [17:23:09] @maroon: mateeus thoughts
- [17:23:16] +Mateeus_1: i think that is workable, but id keep spear
- [17:23:20] +Mateeus_1: another slot gives us
- [17:23:35] +Mateeus_1: another mon to excel vs steel
- [17:23:47] roxiee: ehh but will it be as good as cloy tho
- [17:23:55] roxiee: cuz darm-g just gets scouted
- [17:24:00] +Mateeus_1: we can use
- [17:24:12] +Mateeus_1: kyurem, glastrier, even sub + 3a darm
- [17:24:17] @maroon: ye
- [17:24:25] @maroon: but then i dont like
- [17:24:27] @maroon: no weav
- [17:24:36] @maroon: its ur only thing tht keeps psychic
- [17:24:39] @maroon: from memeing u
- [17:24:45] roxiee: i support adding weavile
- [17:24:49] +Mateeus_1: yeah weavile
- [17:24:51] +Mateeus_1: is an auto add here
- [17:24:58] roxiee: ninetales cloy weavile pilo
- [17:24:58] #AM: lets add weavile and figure out the other stuff after
- [17:25:02] roxiee: yes
- [17:25:04] +Mateeus_1: yep
- [17:25:06] itsrotten: yea
- [17:25:14] #AM: since at least that way we know its there
- [17:25:16] @maroon: cb or scarf weav
- [17:25:30] +Mateeus_1: scarf
- [17:25:37] roxiee: if we use cb we need scarf darm-g
- [17:25:44] @maroon: true
- [17:25:54] #AM: scarf weavile covers scarf latis right?
- [17:25:56] roxiee: how common is uh scarf jirachi
- [17:25:56] itsrotten: scarf seems better
- [17:26:01] roxiee: yeah lati too
- [17:26:17] @maroon: oh ye
- [17:26:18] #AM: like the mono psychic I have in builder with screens has lot of fast stuff
- [17:26:23] #AM: scarf weavile covers it
- [17:26:30] roxiee: oo punishment weavile sounds like smthn id run to punish celebrate jirachi and vic
- [17:26:37] @maroon: o
- [17:26:43] #AM: that sounds neat
- [17:26:43] @maroon: tht sounds interesting
- [17:26:50] +Mateeus_1: !code
- Weavile @ Choice Scarf
- Ability: Pressure
- EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Jolly Nature
- - Knock Off
- - Icicle Crash
- - Foul Play
- - filler
- [17:26:54] @maroon: !code
- Weavile @ Choice Scarf
- Ability: Pressure
- EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Jolly Nature
- - Knock Off
- - Icicle Crash
- - Punishment
- - Foul Play
- [17:26:57] roxiee: OMG
- [17:26:58] roxiee: IM FIRE
- [17:27:07] #AM: whats build so far?
- [17:27:12] +Mateeus_1: it doesnt get
- [17:27:14] +Mateeus_1: punishment
- [17:27:15] roxiee: oh
- [17:27:16] +Mateeus_1: unfortunately
- [17:27:19] roxiee: gg..
- [17:27:29] @maroon: L
- [17:27:31] itsrotten: lmao
- [17:27:41] @maroon: !code
- Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
- Ability: Snow Warning
- EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Timid Nature
- IVs: 0 Atk
- - Aurora Veil
- - Moonblast
- - Freeze-Dry
- - Encore
- Piloswine @ Eviolite
- Ability: Thick Fat
- EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD
- Careful Nature
- - Stealth Rock
- - Earthquake
- - Rock Slide
- - Toxic
- Cloyster @ Waterium Z
- Ability: Skill Link
- EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Naive Nature
- IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- - Shell Smash
- - Hydro Pump
- - Hidden Power [Fire]
- - Rapid Spin
- Weavile @ Choice Scarf
- Ability: Pressure
- EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Jolly Nature
- - Knock Off
- - Icicle Crash
- - Low Kick
- - Foul Play
- [17:27:43] #AM: so filler is probably gonna be something like low kick/pursuit?
- [17:27:51] @maroon: pursuit prob is better
- [17:27:52] @maroon: actually
- [17:28:03] @maroon: for things like victini
- [17:28:03] +Mateeus_1: ya pursuit helps a ton
- [17:28:12] @maroon: !code
- Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
- Ability: Snow Warning
- EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Timid Nature
- IVs: 0 Atk
- - Aurora Veil
- - Moonblast
- - Freeze-Dry
- - Encore
- Piloswine @ Eviolite
- Ability: Thick Fat
- EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD
- Careful Nature
- - Stealth Rock
- - Earthquake
- - Rock Slide
- - Toxic
- Cloyster @ Waterium Z
- Ability: Skill Link
- EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Naive Nature
- IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- - Shell Smash
- - Hydro Pump
- - Hidden Power [Fire]
- - Rapid Spin
- Weavile @ Choice Scarf
- Ability: Pressure
- EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Jolly Nature
- - Knock Off
- - Icicle Crash
- - Pursuit
- - Foul Play
- [17:28:12] +Mateeus_1: there's also Iron Tail to lure MDiancie t1
- [17:28:13] @maroon: ok
- [17:28:15] +Mateeus_1: against Fairy
- [17:28:18] @maroon: so then glastrier + kyurem
- [17:28:19] +Mateeus_1: but that's meme-y
- [17:28:20] @maroon: ?
- [17:28:38] +Mateeus_1: both at once?
- [17:28:50] @maroon: hmm
- [17:28:53] @maroon: i think
- [17:28:54] roxiee: can cloy beat fairy o:
- [17:28:59] @maroon: no
- [17:29:05] @maroon: bulu hard stops that
- [17:29:17] @maroon: unless we readd icicle spear
- [17:29:20] roxiee: idt we need glast with fire + hydro cloy
- [17:29:32] roxiee: but ig it breaks poison?
- [17:29:41] @maroon: glast would help vs poison
- [17:29:44] roxiee: kyurem is a nice scald absorber
- [17:29:45] @maroon: but idk abt break
- [17:29:48] itsrotten: what would the kyurem set be?
- [17:29:48] @maroon: esp since mvenu
- [17:29:50] @maroon: beats it
- [17:30:26] #AM: does it beat a metronome kyurem or specs?
- [17:31:01] #AM: so I guess you'd probably use like a hail rush mon in one of the last two slots?
- [17:31:41] @maroon: !code
- Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
- Ability: Snow Warning
- EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Timid Nature
- IVs: 0 Atk
- - Aurora Veil
- - Moonblast
- - Freeze-Dry
- - Encore
- Piloswine @ Eviolite
- Ability: Thick Fat
- EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD
- Careful Nature
- - Stealth Rock
- - Earthquake
- - Rock Slide
- - Toxic
- Cloyster @ Waterium Z
- Ability: Skill Link
- EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Naive Nature
- IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- - Shell Smash
- - Hydro Pump
- - Hidden Power [Fire]
- - Rapid Spin
- Weavile @ Choice Scarf
- Ability: Pressure
- EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Jolly Nature
- - Knock Off
- - Icicle Crash
- - Pursuit
- - Foul Play
- Kyurem @ Heavy-Duty Boots
- Ability: Pressure
- EVs: 52 HP / 204 SpA / 252 Spe
- Timid Nature
- IVs: 0 Atk
- - Substitute
- - Freeze-Dry
- - Earth Power
- - Roost
- [17:31:44] #AM: we have the spin with cloy in sort of a hybrid set
- [17:31:45] @maroon: tht could work
- [17:31:48] #AM: for role compression
- [17:32:09] @maroon: altho usually the hail sweepers are underwhelming in mono
- [17:32:10] #AM: cloy missing the extra 4 evs
- [17:32:29] +Mateeus_1: i like arctozolt as a hail abuser if we're using one
- [17:32:45] #AM: you would want your last slot to be a breaker right?
- [17:32:51] +Mateeus_1: Yep
- [17:32:53] @maroon: the prob with hail abusers
- [17:32:53] @maroon: is
- [17:32:59] @maroon: hail lasting 5 turns
- [17:33:01] @maroon: is difficult
- [17:33:09] @maroon: esp since u need to bclear hazards
- [17:33:12] @maroon: since theyre all weak to them
- [17:33:25] @maroon: i think we honestly just wrap this build up
- [17:33:28] @maroon: with band gorilla
- [17:33:35] #AM: yeah seems strong
- [17:33:36] roxiee: yeah
- [17:33:38] roxiee: i agree
- [17:33:39] +Mateeus_1: yep that will do imo
- [17:33:40] #AM: muscles through anything fat
- [17:33:43] itsrotten: band darm is a good breaker
- [17:33:59] @maroon: https://pokepast.es/69beab7561810b14
- [17:34:08] @maroon: that looks like a wrap
- [17:34:11] roxiee: alright, thats it
- [17:34:14] roxiee: any questions
- [17:34:18] @maroon: am should i nunmod chat for qs
- [17:34:22] @maroon: and stuff
- [17:34:23] roxiee: yes
- [17:34:23] #AM: one second
- [17:34:24] +Mateeus_1: i think
- [17:34:26] +Mateeus_1: darmg
- [17:34:30] +Mateeus_1: likes fpunch
- [17:34:35] @maroon: ew
- [17:34:38] #AM: lol
- [17:34:39] +Mateeus_1: fire punch
- [17:34:39] roxiee: [17:34:30] SiliconVGC: Cloyster has no multihit moves, which makes skill link useless, and since it's not white herb, sash pokemon can revenge kill it.
- [17:34:40] @maroon: power>all
- [17:34:44] +Mateeus_1: well u still
- [17:34:46] roxiee: !dt cloyster
- [17:34:47] +Mateeus_1: ohko stuff with sr
- [17:34:48] @maroon: ye i meant to change it to
- [17:34:49] @maroon: overcoat
- [17:34:53] roxiee: ya overcoat
- [17:34:57] @maroon: or shell armor
- [17:34:59] @maroon: could be cool
- [17:34:59] roxiee: omg
- [17:35:02] @maroon: for no crits
- [17:35:05] roxiee: shell armor helps with urshifu
- [17:35:10] @maroon: oooo
- [17:35:13] @maroon: im sold
- [17:35:25] #AM: doesnt it just click cc anyways?
- [17:35:37] #AM: overcoat seems better for deterring sand damage
- [17:35:37] roxiee: not behind screens
- [17:35:40] @maroon: https://pokepast.es/3b56a70f6b80c1aa
- [17:35:47] @maroon: hmm
- [17:36:06] roxiee: it doesnt do anything to sand teams tho tbff without ice coverage but:
- [17:36:06] roxiee: [17:35:44] SiliconVGC: shell armor I think would be best, most spore and powder users don't want to stay in on what they think has ice STAB
- [17:36:34] roxiee: liking shell armor
- [17:36:42] #AM: up to you guys really
- [17:36:50] #AM: just need reasoning for it
- [17:36:51] @maroon: both wicked blow and cc
- [17:36:56] #AM: so people can be aware
- [17:36:56] @maroon: are the same exact role
- [17:37:00] @maroon: behind veil
- [17:37:06] @maroon: unless its black glasses shifu
- [17:37:29] @maroon: so chances are they might click wicked blow
- [17:37:30] @maroon: bz of tht
- [17:37:35] @maroon: but they fail to crit
- [17:37:47] @maroon: 252 Atk Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster with an ally's Aurora Veil: 39-46 (16.1 - 19%) -- possible 6HKO
- [17:37:52] @maroon: and u take advantage of it
- [17:38:18] @maroon: i think u could swing either way
- [17:38:19] #AM: hm okay
- [17:38:29] @maroon: ill provide a description for both in the post
- [17:38:34] #AM: I guess you can pick one maybe explain later in paste the merits
- [17:38:36] #AM: yeah
- [17:38:39] @maroon: am u got the final teams right
- [17:38:51] @maroon: i gotta bounce, but ill get the post rdy by tonight
- [17:38:59] #AM: https://pokepast.es/d5277a4975038a41
- [17:39:10] #AM: any last thoughts before I close out
- [17:39:19] #AM: shell armor on cloy or overcoat for now?
- [17:39:30] @maroon: shell armor imo
- [17:39:37] roxiee: armor
- [17:39:39] +Mateeus_1: shell armor yeah
- [17:39:39] #AM: ok I changed it
- [17:39:44] #AM: going to wrap up
- [17:39:44] @maroon: pce
- [17:39:54] itsrotten: all good
- [17:39:55] #AM: thanks everyone for all the help with Monotype workshop
- [17:40:01] itsrotten was promoted to Room regular user by maroon.
- [17:40:05] roxiee was promoted to Room regular user by maroon.
- [17:40:08] roxiee: thanks
- [17:40:09] roxiee: :D
- [17:40:17] Tico = 21 was promoted to Room regular user by maroon.
- [17:40:25] #AM: and thank you to all the contributions by everyone for another smooth workshop
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