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  1. [15:56:46] #AM: hi everyone welcome to TA Workshop we'll be covering Monotype today in a moment we'll poll some types we can work on. The idea is to try and build a team for Gen8Mono, Natdex Mono, and possibly USUM Mono if time permits and how maroon would like to direct
  2. [15:56:46] roxiee was promoted to Room Whitelist by maroon.
  3. [15:56:51] roxiee: gm
  4. [15:57:04] +Katy: hi roxiee
  5. [15:57:06] @maroon: lets come up w/ 5 types for the poll
  6. [15:57:10] +Katy: y
  7. [15:57:12] roxiee: hey
  8. [15:57:14] +Katy: 5 types sounds good
  9. [15:57:28] #AM: ground was suggested so lets go with that as an option
  10. [15:57:41] @maroon: dark flying water steel fairy
  11. [15:57:43] @maroon: o
  12. [15:57:44] @maroon: tht 2
  13. [15:57:50] #AM: we can poll 6
  14. [15:58:18] #AM: /announce if you guys have questions or suggestions feel free to pm staff such s myself and I can share when needed
  15. [15:58:19] A poll was started by maroon.
  16. [15:59:35] #Yellow Paint: yup, feel free to pm me as well
  17. [16:00:02] @maroon: ^^
  18. [16:01:16] Decem: im here
  19. [16:01:25] #AM: [16:01:16] Stockfish 12: Most consistent type?
  20. [16:01:31] #AM: general question
  21. [16:01:40] Decem: elec and fly
  22. [16:01:44] @maroon: sniped
  23. [16:01:57] #AM: reason being just for those unaware?
  24. [16:02:11] #AM: im clueless about mono for example so would be good to know
  25. [16:02:18] @maroon: flying has a ton of options allowing it to take on a variety of different types
  26. [16:02:31] @maroon: and a decent amount of immunities
  27. [16:02:42] #AM: ic
  28. [16:02:43] @maroon: so it is both defensively are offensively good
  29. [16:02:47] @maroon: allowing it to excel
  30. [16:03:05] #AM: makes sense what about electric before we get to building?
  31. [16:03:16] @maroon: elec is good mainly bz of terrain and its abusers, tapu koko also being able to provide great coverage with gknot and dgleam
  32. [16:03:18] @maroon: also help it out
  33. [16:03:29] @maroon: specs zapdos has gained popularity on the type as well
  34. [16:03:41] @maroon: allowing it to take on types like grass better or threats such as kyurem
  35. [16:04:18] #AM: ic
  36. [16:04:25] roxiee: Dracozolt is also one thats been shined on in MWP as it breaks Steel- and Poison-teams better with Sub + 3 Atks
  37. [16:04:30] #AM: so ground was picked where do we start?
  38. [16:04:52] @maroon: ok theres a few options with ground
  39. [16:04:55] roxiee: We'd probably decide on whether the team is going to be sand or sandless for one
  40. [16:05:01] @maroon: i think the 2 basic routes to start are whether deciding
  41. [16:05:05] @maroon: u want to build with sand
  42. [16:05:07] @maroon: or no sand
  43. [16:05:24] #AM: pros and cons?
  44. [16:05:48] @maroon: sand obviously allows excadrill to become a dangerous threat
  45. [16:06:30] @maroon: with cb + sand rush it can take on threats such as zarude with x-scissor which is used rn and then helps like ground break dark as well as being a general powerhouse
  46. [16:06:44] @maroon: however theres less options u can go with when building sand
  47. [16:07:13] @maroon: its already somewhat defined by sand+exca+a water immune being packed in from the start
  48. [16:07:30] #AM: okay so how about the non sand variants what would you do there?
  49. [16:07:42] #AM: I guess pack more immunities/resists ofc
  50. [16:07:47] #AM: [16:07:37] Coolcodename: Can u explain some mons that don’t fit in mono ground sand
  51. [16:08:25] @Decem: standard ground is sand
  52. [16:08:26] @Decem: ftr
  53. [16:08:31] @Decem: sandless is unexplored but
  54. [16:08:35] @Decem: its possible
  55. [16:08:43] @Decem: the main benefit is not running hippowdon for another slot
  56. [16:08:47] @Decem: if you want to go for another type of team
  57. [16:09:02] @Decem: like in sm sandless ground was p big because there were more options building wise with z moves and megas
  58. [16:09:44] #AM: hm okay maybe a sand option would be better
  59. [16:09:50] A poll was started by maroon.
  60. [16:09:56] #AM: but let's take a vote
  61. [16:11:49] #AM: Im going to try and keep paste updated maroon we can use !code command to share current sets/builds
  62. [16:11:57] #AM: it'll be quicker than doing a pokepaste everytime
  63. [16:12:01] #AM: until its being finalized
  64. [16:12:18] @maroon: ye
  65. [16:12:21] @maroon: ty
  66. [16:12:31] @maroon: ok
  67. [16:12:37] @maroon: were building sand then
  68. [16:12:48] #AM: so I guess the obvious is sand setter/exca
  69. [16:12:51] @maroon: hippowdon+excadrill are pretty much necessary
  70. [16:13:05] @maroon: roxiee mateeus decem
  71. [16:13:07] @maroon: maki
  72. [16:13:13] @maroon: any suggestions for this
  73. [16:13:23] @maroon: standard cb drill w/ x-scissor
  74. [16:13:36] roxiee: We building around CB or SD
  75. [16:13:43] @maroon: should i poll that
  76. [16:13:50] #AM: up to you guys
  77. [16:13:53] @maroon: ye ok
  78. [16:13:59] #AM: maybe get a composition going
  79. [16:14:03] #AM: for blueprint
  80. [16:14:23] #AM: just focusing on putting import together as we go along
  81. [16:14:29] @maroon: ok
  82. [16:14:30] A poll was started by maroon.
  83. [16:14:46] #AM: /announce if you have any questions please feel free to let staff know
  84. [16:14:58] #AM: [16:14:51] Stockfish 12: What mons work around SD a drill as opposed to CB?
  85. [16:15:45] #AM: [16:15:39] Coolcodename: Is bright powder garchomp a thing in mono?
  86. [16:15:45] @maroon: its i wouldnt say as much about what mons work with the sets
  87. [16:15:46] @maroon: as more
  88. [16:15:52] @maroon: how they allow excadrill to play
  89. [16:15:54] roxiee: I think some potential options are are Water Absorber like Seismitoad and Gastrodon. I also feel like Choice Band Excadrill appreciates Gravity Landorus
  90. [16:15:59] @maroon: like sd gives u max 3 sand turns
  91. [16:16:02] roxiee: are Water Absorbers*
  92. [16:16:05] @maroon: which is fine if u have rapid spin
  93. [16:16:09] @maroon: since u get some speed
  94. [16:16:17] @maroon: but band u get more immediate damage
  95. [16:16:28] @maroon: !code
  96. SiliconVGC: In my opinion, band is suboptmal, it increases damage output, but it creates a reliance on switching that doesn't mesh well with 5 turn sand
  97. maroon: what would u suggest then
  98. SiliconVGC: life orb, lefties, or sash
  99. [16:16:29] #AM: so we're going with band
  100. [16:16:31] @maroon: ye
  101. [16:16:33] +Katy: ya
  102. [16:16:36] @maroon: to answer this q
  103. [16:16:40] @maroon: @siliconvgc
  104. [16:16:56] @maroon: band does the most damage output and needs the least support to start cleaning
  105. [16:16:58] roxiee: I'd say something like Life Orb or Lum is more consistent than Bright Powder, its more reliable
  106. [16:17:11] @maroon: whereas lo while it can do the same chips excadrill far 2 quickly leaving it p open to prio atks
  107. [16:17:12] #AM: Coolcodename roxies answer is for you
  108. [16:17:16] @maroon: like sucker and aqua jet
  109. [16:17:40] @maroon: leftovers can work with a swords dance set, but again less immediate power and more timing needed to setup
  110. [16:17:48] @maroon: then sash is just purely suboptimal
  111. [16:17:49] #AM: ok so what does band excadrill run besides eq, x-scissor/
  112. [16:17:55] +Mateeus_1: iron head and rock slide
  113. [16:18:05] @maroon: iron head rapid spin/rock slide
  114. [16:18:13] roxiee: ya, earthquake, iron head, x-scizzor, slide/spin
  115. [16:18:18] #AM: adamant/jolly?
  116. [16:18:24] @maroon: adamant
  117. [16:18:27] +Mateeus_1: adamant
  118. [16:18:33] #AM: word
  119. [16:18:36] @maroon: the only reason cb drill ran jolly in usm and natdex is
  120. [16:18:44] @maroon: cuz scarf greninja outpaces adamant
  121. [16:18:48] #AM: ah
  122. [16:18:51] @maroon: but since it doesnt really exist in ss
  123. [16:18:51] +Mateeus_1: and even then
  124. [16:18:57] +Mateeus_1: ada was kinda an option too
  125. [16:19:00] @maroon: no reason to not use ada
  126. [16:19:08] @maroon: ye it was, just some ran jolly bz of it
  127. [16:19:12] #AM: ok so mentions of wter absorbers up above
  128. [16:19:27] @maroon: so seismitoad and gastrodon
  129. [16:19:39] @maroon: the difference between the two
  130. [16:19:40] #AM: quick run down before we get to that what does these archetypes usually need/cover
  131. [16:19:43] #AM: in general
  132. [16:19:45] @maroon: is gastrodon is more of a wall
  133. [16:19:56] @maroon: whereas seis is more of an offensive presence
  134. [16:20:03] roxiee: Seismitoad notably stops Belly Drum Azumarill and its yeah more offensive than gastrodon
  135. [16:20:06] @maroon: in my mind gastrodon is the better mon by far due to recovery
  136. [16:20:07] @maroon: but
  137. [16:20:23] @maroon: some threats like azumarill make seismitoad an appealing option
  138. [16:20:39] +Mateeus_1: Gastro also forms a defensive fallback with Hippowdon as well
  139. [16:21:02] @maroon: !code
  140. Excadrill @ Choice Band
  141. Ability: Sand Rush
  142. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  143. Adamant Nature
  144. - Earthquake
  145. - Iron Head
  146. - X-Scissor
  147. - Rapid Spin / Rock Slide
  148. [16:21:29] #AM: what is hippo set and perhaps we can decide on gastro/toad when the othr partners are filled in?
  149. [16:21:48] +Katy: sounds like a plan
  150. [16:22:04] @maroon: well since we went with choice band drill
  151. [16:22:09] @maroon: i would say leftovers is superior
  152. [16:22:25] @maroon: since eject button is used mainly to give excadrill more sand time
  153. [16:22:30] @maroon: cuz sd is so pressed for it
  154. [16:22:40] roxiee: well
  155. [16:23:08] roxiee: i could see ebutton keeping the momentum up to bring exca in safely with gravity lando-t
  156. [16:23:28] @maroon: ye tht is a possibility
  157. [16:23:33] roxiee: but id assume uturn landot is an option
  158. [16:23:52] @maroon: how about we leave hippowdon in the builder for now
  159. [16:23:56] @maroon: and decide its set
  160. [16:24:01] @maroon: after we add some more teammates
  161. [16:24:05] #AM: yes
  162. [16:24:30] @maroon: now i think 2 good options to add are
  163. [16:24:34] @maroon: as roxiee mention landot
  164. [16:24:39] @maroon: and the other being nidoking
  165. [16:24:49] @maroon: nidoking kinda acts like landoi does for ground
  166. [16:24:53] @maroon: ofc not as good
  167. [16:24:53] #AM: [16:24:37] SiliconVGC: mamoswine and ice beam quagsire also allow excadrill to come in safely on landorus
  168. [16:24:59] @maroon: but the sheer force is appreciates
  169. [16:25:13] @maroon: mamoswine does indeed force lando out
  170. [16:25:14] #AM: lando-i is banned right?
  171. [16:25:17] @maroon: ye
  172. [16:25:29] @maroon: quagsire isnt really used in ss
  173. [16:25:45] @maroon: and only found itself on fat ground builds w/ mega steelix in gen7
  174. [16:26:29] #AM: feel like nidoking covers the offensive spectrum with excadrill?
  175. [16:26:30] roxiee: I'm not really sure what Ice Beam Quagsire does and it doesn't sound better than Mamo/Nido with Ice coverage but coming in safely refers to pivoting like U-turn or in this case: Eject Button Hippo after Lando-T uses Gravity
  176. [16:27:17] +Ika Ika Musume: You really cant get what nidoking offers anywhere else in ground other than Lando-i or offensive seismitoad if you are being very budget
  177. [16:27:37] A poll was started by maroon.
  178. [16:27:56] @maroon: Coolcodename: Why is lando I banded
  179. [16:28:09] @maroon: comparatively to other gens
  180. [16:28:16] @maroon: this has a few different keys
  181. [16:28:33] @maroon: other generations had access to more pokemon that could check it as well as the loss of hidden power
  182. [16:28:38] @maroon: made it much harder to check
  183. [16:29:41] roxiee: its high spa and coverage, access to gravity to check floating/flying types, and even knock off for pokemon like slowking makes it too much as well
  184. [16:29:58] roxiee: lack of hp ice is huge
  185. [16:30:16] #Yellow Paint: banded lando i?
  186. [16:30:28] #Yellow Paint: ah nvm banned
  187. [16:30:55] @maroon: !code
  188. Excadrill @ Choice Band
  189. Ability: Sand Rush
  190. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  191. Adamant Nature
  192. - Earthquake
  193. - Iron Head
  194. - X-Scissor
  195. - Rapid Spin
  196.  
  197. Hippowdon @ Eject Button
  198. Ability: Sand Stream
  199. EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
  200. Impish Nature
  201. - Stealth Rock
  202. - Earthquake
  203. - Slack Off
  204. - Whirlwind
  205.  
  206. Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
  207. Ability: Intimidate
  208. EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
  209. Jolly Nature
  210. - Bulk Up
  211. - Substitute
  212. - Earthquake
  213. - Gravity
  214. [16:31:05] @maroon: so what this landot does
  215. [16:31:15] @maroon: is basically take advantage of passive pokemon
  216. [16:31:31] @maroon: like say celesteela without flamethrower or air slash
  217. [16:31:49] @maroon: vs steel teams and generally useful for getting rid of ground immunes
  218. [16:31:59] @maroon: allowing the team to better handle mons like steela
  219. [16:32:04] #AM: looks good so far
  220. [16:32:09] @maroon: as well as letting cb drill go crazy
  221. [16:32:11] #AM: that makes sense
  222. [16:32:15] +Katy: ya looks good
  223. [16:32:40] #AM: so I guess you have the other two slots and then the water absorber. Im assuming one slot is going to be to cover the grasses/ice
  224. [16:32:44] roxiee: i think offensive seis looks really good here tbh
  225. [16:32:45] @maroon: ye
  226. [16:33:01] +Mateeus_1: yeah water-breaking seis
  227. [16:33:04] @maroon: roxiee can you code the set
  228. [16:33:06] @maroon: u were thinking
  229. [16:33:06] +Ika Ika Musume: not that it applies in this particular case, but gravity also has a secondary effect of increasing accuracy of otherwise risker poves
  230. [16:33:08] +Mateeus_1: synergizes well with this
  231. [16:33:10] @maroon: the sub pup pwhip
  232. [16:33:10] @maroon: ?
  233. [16:33:13] +Mateeus_1: ya
  234. [16:33:29] roxiee: idk its like 3 sets
  235. [16:33:35] roxiee: av / sub special / sub phy
  236. [16:33:36] #AM: roxiee are you able to code?
  237. [16:33:45] roxiee: one sec let me gather them
  238. [16:33:54] #Yellow Paint: SiliconVGC: I still think quagsire could be a good addition to this team to prevent threats like bulk up urshifu and dragon dance dnite from sweeping
  239. [16:33:55] #AM: ok may not be able to if anything one of us can do it
  240. [16:34:04] @maroon: oh ill do it
  241. [16:34:26] #AM: word
  242. [16:34:28] #Yellow Paint: yeah whitelist can't do !code
  243. [16:34:33] #AM: gg
  244. [16:35:13] #AM: so besides the toad set what else would we need now?
  245. [16:35:19] +Maki: toad set?
  246. [16:35:21] +Maki: i can paste it
  247. [16:35:23] @maroon: ty
  248. [16:35:27] @maroon: i dont have it my builder
  249. [16:35:28] @maroon: L
  250. [16:35:31] +Maki: !code
  251. Seismitoad @ Leftovers
  252. Ability: Water Absorb
  253. EVs: 212 HP / 192 Atk / 104 Spe
  254. Adamant Nature
  255. - Substitute
  256. - Earthquake
  257. - Power Whip
  258. - Power-Up Punch
  259. [16:35:31] #AM: maki feel free to code it
  260. [16:35:32] +Maki: this right
  261. [16:35:34] #AM: sniped
  262. [16:35:35] @maroon: yes
  263. [16:35:42] #AM: that looks heat
  264. [16:35:44] +Maki: yeah
  265. [16:35:49] +Maki: speed allows it to creep adamant crawdaunt
  266. [16:35:49] +Mateeus_1: regarding @SificonVGC, usually Hippowdon is able to deal with those, and you have offensive pressure to do so as well
  267. [16:35:58] @maroon: hmm
  268. [16:36:00] @maroon: im thinking
  269. [16:36:03] +Maki: and hp allows sub to bulk night shadow / stoss from things like bliss or corsola
  270. [16:36:05] @maroon: if we should make it 220 speed
  271. [16:36:09] roxiee: i sent maroon some spa sets, but if we do with this, we should prob be using nidoking 100%
  272. [16:36:12] @maroon: so we also outpace the 44 spe rotom
  273. [16:36:16] +Mateeus_1: i like 220 for rotowash
  274. [16:36:16] @maroon: tho idt they exist much
  275. [16:36:22] @maroon: with no azu being jolly
  276. [16:36:24] +Mateeus_1: better to be safe imo
  277. [16:36:26] roxiee: rotom-wash is nice ye
  278. [16:36:51] #AM: !code
  279. Excadrill @ Choice Band
  280. Ability: Sand Rush
  281. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  282. Adamant Nature
  283. - Earthquake
  284. - Iron Head
  285. - X-Scissor
  286. - Rapid Spin
  287.  
  288. Hippowdon @ Eject Button
  289. Ability: Sand Stream
  290. EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
  291. Impish Nature
  292. - Stealth Rock
  293. - Earthquake
  294. - Slack Off
  295. - Whirlwind
  296.  
  297. Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
  298. Ability: Intimidate
  299. EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
  300. Jolly Nature
  301. - Bulk Up
  302. - Substitute
  303. - Earthquake
  304. - Gravity
  305.  
  306. Seismitoad @ Leftovers
  307. Ability: Water Absorb
  308. EVs: 212 HP / 152 Atk / 144 Spe
  309. Adamant Nature
  310. - Substitute
  311. - Earthquake
  312. - Power Whip
  313. - Power-Up Punch
  314. [16:37:02] @maroon: sniped
  315. [16:37:03] @maroon: ok
  316. [16:37:06] @maroon: last few options
  317. [16:37:18] +Katy: what about chomp?
  318. [16:37:26] +Katy: he can also profit from gravy
  319. [16:37:28] @maroon: are nidoking mamoswine steelix
  320. [16:37:30] @maroon: chomp
  321. [16:37:36] @maroon: i would say
  322. [16:37:42] @maroon: id like chomp here
  323. [16:37:44] +Mateeus_1: i like garchomp here ya
  324. [16:37:49] @maroon: esp seeing how prevalent
  325. [16:37:51] @maroon: kyu is rn
  326. [16:37:56] @maroon: its nice having a faster check
  327. [16:38:06] +Katy: ya
  328. [16:38:07] #AM: [16:37:59] Stockfish 12: How will hail be stopped from here?
  329. [16:38:11] #AM: im assuming mono ice
  330. [16:38:13] +Katy: and chomp is threatening
  331. [16:38:22] +Katy: ya mono ice has hail
  332. [16:38:24] @maroon: mono ice needs aurora veil
  333. [16:38:27] +Katy: ninetales alola and such
  334. [16:38:27] @maroon: so u wanna setup sand
  335. [16:38:32] @maroon: whenever ninetales comes in
  336. [16:38:38] @maroon: excadrill can damage ice types p good
  337. [16:38:41] @maroon: with cb iron head
  338. [16:38:45] +Mateeus_1: usually @Stockfish 12 you need to play carefully around their weather condition and get Excadrill under sand
  339. [16:38:53] +Mateeus_1: it's definitely a winnable mu
  340. [16:38:56] @maroon: setting sand up prevents it from getting up aurora veil
  341. [16:39:09] @maroon: ofc avalugg can be annoying so u wanna use your special attackers to break it
  342. [16:39:18] +Ika Ika Musume: Is sand veil garchomp actually legal in monotype?
  343. [16:39:20] @maroon: we dont really have any rn
  344. [16:39:25] @maroon: ye it is
  345. [16:39:36] @maroon: since we are adding garchomp
  346. [16:39:38] +Ika Ika Musume: It works counter to gravity anyways, but I was just looking into it
  347. [16:39:42] @maroon: i think the 6th should be nidoking
  348. [16:39:48] #AM: makes sense
  349. [16:39:50] @maroon: considering we dont have any spa rn
  350. [16:40:17] roxiee: yo honestly
  351. [16:40:27] roxiee: this team can do really good against hail with ebutton hippo
  352. [16:40:29] +Katy: so chomp and nido?
  353. [16:40:30] roxiee: + band exca
  354. [16:40:35] +Mateeus_1: ya chomp and nido
  355. [16:40:39] @maroon: ok
  356. [16:40:45] @maroon: one thing im questioning rn
  357. [16:40:48] @maroon: nidokings set
  358. [16:40:51] @maroon: we have gravity lando
  359. [16:41:01] @maroon: so im wondering if we wanna give up flamethrower
  360. [16:41:07] +Mateeus_1: do we _really_ need a special attacker
  361. [16:41:09] @maroon: for tspikes or sludge wave
  362. [16:41:17] @maroon: since landot breaks steel for us
  363. [16:41:21] +Maki: nido seems really nice esp since flying could be troublesome without a mamo
  364. [16:41:30] roxiee: wait
  365. [16:41:36] roxiee: what lando spread are we using
  366. [16:41:36] @maroon: !code
  367. Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
  368. Ability: Sheer Force
  369. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  370. Timid Nature
  371. IVs: 0 Atk
  372. - x
  373. - Ice Beam
  374. - Thunderbolt
  375. - Toxic Spikes
  376. [16:41:44] @maroon: max hp max spe
  377. [16:41:55] +Mateeus_1: Earth Power is still the best STAB even on Ground imo
  378. [16:41:56] #AM: wouldnt you still want earth power to deal with things like ferro?
  379. [16:42:01] +Mateeus_1: ^ yes
  380. [16:42:10] @maroon: ye
  381. [16:42:14] @maroon: and take adv of gravity
  382. [16:42:23] +Mateeus_1: i think we could opt for sub > tspikes as well
  383. [16:42:29] roxiee: ehh
  384. [16:42:31] +Mateeus_1: to better deal with the v popular flying
  385. [16:42:41] @maroon: i guess its an option
  386. [16:42:45] @maroon: it would be nice
  387. [16:42:48] @maroon: since mamo isnt here
  388. [16:42:50] +Katy: ya its an option tho
  389. [16:42:54] +Katy: imho
  390. [16:42:56] +Katy: considerable
  391. [16:43:00] @Decem: i think u want epower on all nidos
  392. [16:43:05] roxiee: ^
  393. [16:43:14] @maroon: 252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Nidoking: 63-74 (20.7 - 24.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
  394. [16:43:18] @maroon: ok ye
  395. [16:43:21] @maroon: sub can work
  396. [16:43:29] roxiee: [16:43:10] SiliconVGC: I recommended 196 hp to maximize lefties recovery, but I never got a response
  397. [16:43:31] roxiee: silicon said this
  398. [16:43:46] @maroon: i mean i guess but its arbitary
  399. [16:43:56] @maroon: plus u get more leftys recovery
  400. [16:43:57] @maroon: with max hp
  401. [16:44:08] @maroon: right
  402. [16:44:15] #AM: its based on 16ths
  403. [16:44:28] #AM: its a bit arbitrary though
  404. [16:44:40] @maroon: like unless the extra spd or def do something
  405. [16:44:43] @maroon: its not worth it
  406. [16:44:54] @maroon: better to keep it in overall bulk
  407. [16:45:01] @maroon: !code
  408. Excadrill @ Choice Band
  409. Ability: Sand Rush
  410. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  411. Adamant Nature
  412. - Earthquake
  413. - Iron Head
  414. - X-Scissor
  415. - Rapid Spin
  416.  
  417. Hippowdon @ Eject Button
  418. Ability: Sand Stream
  419. EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
  420. Impish Nature
  421. - Stealth Rock
  422. - Earthquake
  423. - Slack Off
  424. - Whirlwind
  425.  
  426. Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
  427. Ability: Intimidate
  428. EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
  429. Jolly Nature
  430. - Bulk Up
  431. - Substitute
  432. - Earthquake
  433. - Gravity
  434.  
  435. Seismitoad @ Leftovers
  436. Ability: Water Absorb
  437. EVs: 212 HP / 152 Atk / 144 Spe
  438. Adamant Nature
  439. - Substitute
  440. - Earthquake
  441. - Power Whip
  442. - Power-Up Punch
  443.  
  444. Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
  445. Ability: Sheer Force
  446. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  447. Timid Nature
  448. IVs: 0 Atk
  449. - Earth Power
  450. - Ice Beam
  451. - Thunderbolt
  452. - Substitute
  453. [16:45:02] @maroon: ok
  454. [16:45:07] @maroon: which garchomp set now
  455. [16:45:12] #AM: chomper?
  456. [16:45:20] roxiee: oh we using chomp?
  457. [16:45:24] @maroon: ye
  458. [16:45:27] @maroon: kyurem check
  459. [16:45:31] @maroon: i like sd scale shot
  460. [16:45:32] @maroon: for it
  461. [16:45:37] #AM: do kyurems run scarf?
  462. [16:45:37] +Katy: same
  463. [16:45:41] +Maki: no
  464. [16:45:43] +Mateeus_1: I think either SD + Scale or Scarf on this team
  465. [16:45:44] #AM: gotcha
  466. [16:45:44] @maroon: mostly sub boots sheninigans
  467. [16:45:45] +Katy: not rly
  468. [16:45:49] +Maki: boots / specs are what you'll se
  469. [16:45:58] roxiee: nah but i was thinking krook too but that works
  470. [16:46:03] +Katy: sd scale is nice pseudo dd
  471. [16:46:20] @maroon: !code
  472. Garchomp @ Life Orb
  473. Ability: Rough Skin
  474. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  475. Jolly Nature
  476. - Swords Dance
  477. - Scale Shot
  478. - Earthquake
  479. - Stone Edge
  480. [16:46:24] #AM: does sd run like scale shot, eq, fire fang?
  481. [16:46:26] +Katy: and gives us some more offensive power
  482. [16:46:28] #AM: oh edge
  483. [16:46:28] @maroon: i think we should go for stone edge
  484. [16:46:30] @maroon: mainly to hit
  485. [16:46:32] #AM: zap
  486. [16:46:33] @maroon: things like goltres
  487. [16:46:35] @maroon: which is insane
  488. [16:46:37] @maroon: and zapdos
  489. [16:46:39] #AM: ok that makes sense
  490. [16:46:41] @maroon: esp the newer specs set
  491. [16:46:46] +Mateeus_1: edge + eq also lets us rip through dark's defensive core
  492. [16:46:46] @maroon: that can be fairly annoying
  493. [16:46:53] +Mateeus_1: which is def very nice for this team
  494. [16:46:56] @maroon: !code
  495. Excadrill @ Choice Band
  496. Ability: Sand Rush
  497. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  498. Adamant Nature
  499. - Earthquake
  500. - Iron Head
  501. - X-Scissor
  502. - Rapid Spin
  503.  
  504. Hippowdon @ Eject Button
  505. Ability: Sand Stream
  506. EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
  507. Impish Nature
  508. - Stealth Rock
  509. - Earthquake
  510. - Slack Off
  511. - Whirlwind
  512.  
  513. Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
  514. Ability: Intimidate
  515. EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
  516. Jolly Nature
  517. - Bulk Up
  518. - Substitute
  519. - Earthquake
  520. - Gravity
  521.  
  522. Seismitoad @ Leftovers
  523. Ability: Water Absorb
  524. EVs: 212 HP / 152 Atk / 144 Spe
  525. Adamant Nature
  526. - Substitute
  527. - Earthquake
  528. - Power Whip
  529. - Power-Up Punch
  530.  
  531. Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
  532. Ability: Sheer Force
  533. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  534. Timid Nature
  535. IVs: 0 Atk
  536. - Earth Power
  537. - Ice Beam
  538. - Thunderbolt
  539. - Substitute
  540.  
  541. Garchomp @ Life Orb
  542. Ability: Rough Skin
  543. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  544. Jolly Nature
  545. - Swords Dance
  546. - Scale Shot
  547. - Earthquake
  548. - Stone Edge
  549. [16:47:05] @maroon: this seems like a nice overall product
  550. [16:47:11] @maroon: does anyone have questions or comments
  551. [16:47:34] #AM: lets do questions/comments for like 2 minutes then if everything is good we can try to do a natdex mono team
  552. [16:48:00] #AM: idk if we'll be able to get usum in but ty for everyone helping and doing great
  553. [16:48:02] @maroon: idm doing either natdex or sm
  554. [16:48:06] @maroon: well see what they want
  555. [16:48:10] roxiee: poll?!
  556. [16:48:11] #AM: that sounds good eithr or
  557. [16:48:12] @maroon: ye
  558. [16:48:15] @Decem: we doing sm?
  559. [16:48:17] #AM: lets poll after
  560. [16:48:19] roxiee: might as well but the og oras and bw up
  561. [16:48:20] @maroon: potentially
  562. [16:48:22] roxiee: put*
  563. [16:48:22] @maroon: sm or natdex
  564. [16:48:23] #AM: we get any questions
  565. [16:48:24] @maroon: ppls choice
  566. [16:48:44] A poll was started by maroon.
  567. [16:48:55] @maroon: well be doing questions
  568. [16:48:58] @maroon: while the polls up
  569. [16:49:06] #AM: https://pokepast.es/165d3516b8825ac0
  570. [16:49:12] #AM: im assuming this is final product?
  571. [16:49:54] +Mateeus_1: triple sub mayhem
  572. [16:49:55] +Mateeus_1: i like it
  573. [16:50:14] #AM: yeah it looks clean especially offsetting rillaboom matchups
  574. [16:50:22] roxiee: gotta run at least 3 sub users on all ur teams
  575. [16:50:26] @maroon: oh man
  576. [16:50:31] @maroon: rillaboom no stopping it
  577. [16:50:31] #AM: I assume those are tough to deal with in grounds?
  578. [16:50:33] @maroon: once sd is up
  579. [16:50:33] roxiee: well
  580. [16:50:36] @maroon: ganhamos
  581. [16:50:41] @maroon: it can kinda be checked
  582. [16:50:43] @maroon: but its tough
  583. [16:50:52] #AM: I mean how do you usually stop it?
  584. [16:50:53] roxiee: steelix is an option tbf , its c on the vr for a reason but this team is solid
  585. [16:50:57] @maroon: prob best chance is nido or chmp
  586. [16:51:00] #AM: it doesnt seem like you can
  587. [16:51:04] @maroon: roxiee ye
  588. [16:51:04] +Mateeus_1: Grass as a whole is kinda unstoppable for Ground
  589. [16:51:07] +Mateeus_1: this gen
  590. [16:51:10] #AM: but I assume some matchups are always rough
  591. [16:51:11] @maroon: but adding steelix seemed like a momentum drain
  592. [16:51:13] @maroon: for this team
  593. [16:51:15] @Decem: u bank on them not grassing
  594. [16:51:17] roxiee: yeah not this team
  595. [16:51:18] +Mateeus_1: rillaboom is already a mountain to climb
  596. [16:51:20] +Mateeus_1: then they got
  597. [16:51:22] +Mateeus_1: 5 more mons
  598. [16:51:23] roxiee: gastro + steelix is a nice core
  599. [16:51:23] @Decem: grass isnt that good imo so its nbd
  600. [16:51:33] #AM: ic
  601. [16:51:54] @maroon: (in sm and natdex grass is v good)
  602. [16:52:24] +Mateeus_1: eh its antimeta
  603. [16:52:25] @Decem: if there were more moves like grassy glide
  604. [16:52:28] @Decem: mono would be so unbalanced
  605. [16:53:03] @maroon: theres 4 based terrain moves
  606. [16:53:07] @maroon: luckily only 1 gives prio
  607. [16:53:15] @maroon: whats fairys ngl i forgot
  608. [16:53:19] +Mateeus_1: misty boooom
  609. [16:53:21] @Decem: misty boom
  610. [16:53:26] @maroon: woat
  611. [16:53:26] @maroon: LOL
  612. [16:53:37] roxiee: lol i remember that misty boom team in mpl
  613. [16:53:41] #Yellow Paint: misty boom sobad
  614. [16:53:50] +Mateeus_1: !dt misty explosion
  615. [16:53:51] +Mateeus_1: lul
  616. [16:53:54] roxiee: it was a hatterene that used it lmao
  617. [16:54:01] #AM: so natdex is up next
  618. [16:54:07] @maroon: yep
  619. [16:54:10] @maroon: gonna adv it rq
  620. [16:54:10] #AM: I guess we can try something other than ground for natdex
  621. [16:54:22] roxiee: ice ice baby
  622. [16:54:23] #AM: up to you guys
  623. [16:54:25] @Decem: link game roxiee
  624. [16:54:30] @Decem: ive never seen misty boom used in mono
  625. [16:54:32] +Mateeus_1: ya nat dex has a great diversity
  626. [16:54:37] #Yellow Paint: does ice build itself?
  627. [16:55:06] +Mateeus_1: oh wdym by building itself
  628. [16:55:16] #AM: where the slots are pretty much the same
  629. [16:55:22] #AM: for every ice build
  630. [16:55:22] +Mateeus_1: ohhhh
  631. [16:55:31] +Mateeus_1: you got some slots that are the same indeed
  632. [16:55:31] #AM: like hail/viel the hail mons etc.
  633. [16:55:43] itsrotten was promoted to Room Whitelist by maroon.
  634. [16:55:46] +Mateeus_1: but you can go some different ways yeah
  635. [16:55:50] @maroon: he will be on deck for natdex
  636. [16:55:57] #AM: excellent
  637. [16:56:03] @maroon: aight mat suggest some types
  638. [16:56:08] @maroon: i wanna throw in dark
  639. [16:56:09] +Mateeus_1: alright
  640. [16:56:10] @maroon: idm anything else
  641. [16:56:28] +Mateeus_1: ice grass water dragon fairy
  642. [16:56:34] roxiee: i think ice has some interesting stuff like ground-z sandslash, elect-z frost, water-z cloy
  643. [16:56:37] +Mateeus_1: electric is also nice
  644. [16:56:45] A poll was started by maroon.
  645. [16:56:59] #AM: maroon you read my mind
  646. [16:57:02] #AM: for 3 minutes heh
  647. [16:57:05] @maroon: L
  648. [16:57:07] @maroon: Win
  649. [16:57:42] itsrotten: i like dragon it's versatile
  650. [16:57:54] @maroon: i like dark
  651. [16:58:04] #AM: so for informational purposes what are usually best types and why in natdex mono?
  652. [16:58:06] @maroon: mostly bz i never feel satisfied
  653. [16:58:11] @maroon: with building a ho screens dark
  654. [16:58:17] @maroon: bz somethings lacking
  655. [16:58:31] @maroon: so i assume others feel the same typa way
  656. [16:58:51] @maroon: natdex mono has a ton of great types, similar to sm
  657. [16:58:58] @maroon: where is more viable then unviable
  658. [16:59:13] @maroon: ofc types like flying dark steel grass water psychic are p good
  659. [16:59:15] #AM: if there's a tie we can do quick tiebreaker vote
  660. [16:59:22] +Mateeus_1: I would say Dark, Fairy, and Psychic are prob the top 3 for me
  661. [16:59:40] roxiee: !poll display
  662. [16:59:45] roxiee: ice ice baby
  663. [16:59:46] #AM: ice ice baby
  664. [16:59:53] roxiee: ggwp
  665. [17:00:08] #AM: so I assume its a hail setter
  666. [17:00:11] #AM: to start us off
  667. [17:00:14] @maroon: ye
  668. [17:00:16] +Katy: ninetales
  669. [17:00:20] @maroon: alolan ninetales is a nonstarter
  670. [17:00:20] +Katy: no other way
  671. [17:00:23] itsrotten: ya we need ninetales
  672. [17:00:24] itsrotten: lol
  673. [17:00:25] @maroon: ive never seen a good ice team
  674. [17:00:27] @maroon: without it
  675. [17:00:32] #AM: why not up
  676. [17:00:34] +Katy: so its her?
  677. [17:00:38] #AM: !dt vanilluxe
  678. [17:00:40] roxiee: Alolan ninetales is the best setter amongst the other pokemon
  679. [17:00:43] #AM: the ie cream
  680. [17:00:47] +Katy: he too slow
  681. [17:00:51] +Mateeus_1: tales has a better speed tier
  682. [17:00:51] roxiee: faster, particial fairy typing
  683. [17:00:57] #AM: cool
  684. [17:01:02] #AM: no pun intended
  685. [17:01:02] @maroon: !code
  686. Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
  687. Ability: Snow Warning
  688. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  689. Timid Nature
  690. IVs: 0 Atk
  691. - Aurora Veil
  692. - Moonblast
  693. - Freeze-Dry
  694. - Encore
  695. [17:01:06] @maroon: this is the most standard set
  696. [17:01:17] roxiee: being slower than urshifu is a L
  697. [17:01:19] @maroon: also its fairy typing
  698. [17:01:21] @maroon: does alot for ice
  699. [17:01:23] itsrotten: i like that set
  700. [17:01:29] #AM: oh right ursh is a thing in natdexmono
  701. [17:01:31] @maroon: hits dark and fighting types
  702. [17:01:33] @maroon: which is really nice
  703. [17:01:37] @maroon: esp since urshifu is a thing now
  704. [17:02:01] #AM: so with that pretty much out of the way what are the next options we consider
  705. [17:02:07] roxiee: i think its crucial to determine who our z mover is tbh
  706. [17:02:07] #AM: is there a formula for these teams?
  707. [17:02:13] @maroon: i feel like ice is a types
  708. [17:02:16] @maroon: since its not as good
  709. [17:02:20] @maroon: u need to map it out more
  710. [17:02:27] @maroon: so we should focus on what type of ice
  711. [17:02:29] @maroon: we want to make
  712. [17:02:30] #AM: ok so it's not as linear
  713. [17:02:33] @maroon: so we can rlly focus in on it
  714. [17:02:59] +Mateeus_1: there are mainly
  715. [17:03:02] +Mateeus_1: 2 options Ice can go
  716. [17:03:05] Tico = 21 was promoted to Room Whitelist by maroon.
  717. [17:03:32] +Mateeus_1: something bulkier, that centers along Piloswine being the SR setter
  718. [17:03:43] #AM: !dt piloswine
  719. [17:03:44] @maroon: ive always wondered
  720. [17:03:45] +Mateeus_1: and abusing hail (which optionally uses Icy Rock on ATales)
  721. [17:03:48] @maroon: if this is insane
  722. [17:03:50] @maroon: or a good idea
  723. [17:03:58] @maroon: z move gorilla
  724. [17:04:05] #AM: darm-g?
  725. [17:04:07] @maroon: ye
  726. [17:04:08] +Mateeus_1: yeah
  727. [17:04:09] +Mateeus_1: it's allowed
  728. [17:04:11] #AM: man
  729. [17:04:13] +Maki: do zmoves work with the ability
  730. [17:04:14] +Sputnikk: im not a mono expert but i imagine thick fat is really nice for ice no?
  731. [17:04:15] #AM: sounds like a beast
  732. [17:04:17] +Mateeus_1: they do
  733. [17:04:20] @maroon: thts what i wanna know
  734. [17:04:23] @maroon: havent tried it out yet
  735. [17:04:26] +Sputnikk: z moves do work
  736. [17:04:27] +Maki: ik dynamax doesnt
  737. [17:04:30] @maroon: ok
  738. [17:04:30] roxiee: thick fat is always the default ability
  739. [17:04:31] +Maki: ya thick fat is definitely nice
  740. [17:04:33] +Mateeus_1: @Sputnikk Thick Fat + Eviolite Piloswine is the most reliable setter
  741. [17:04:36] +Mateeus_1: Ice has
  742. [17:04:41] +Sputnikk: i see
  743. [17:04:53] +Sputnikk: and yes z moves get the gorilla tactics boost
  744. [17:04:53] @maroon: !code
  745. Piloswine @ Eviolite
  746. Ability: Thick Fat
  747. EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD
  748. Careful Nature
  749. - Stealth Rock
  750. - Earthquake
  751. - Rock Slide
  752. - Toxic
  753. [17:04:57] @maroon: this is the only pilo set
  754. [17:04:58] +Sputnikk: groundium was a thing in natdex to lure pex
  755. [17:05:05] +Sputnikk: before it was banned
  756. [17:05:56] @maroon: what do we wanna go with it
  757. [17:05:59] +Mateeus_1: I think we could
  758. [17:06:01] +Mateeus_1: put a poll
  759. [17:06:01] @maroon: firium z darm groundium
  760. [17:06:05] roxiee: what does darm break
  761. [17:06:06] #AM: poll it imo
  762. [17:06:07] @maroon: lets brainstorm options
  763. [17:06:09] roxiee: is it like a lure for steel
  764. [17:06:10] @maroon: then poll it
  765. [17:06:13] #AM: ok
  766. [17:06:15] @maroon: so they have some stuff to go on
  767. [17:06:19] #AM: makes sense
  768. [17:06:32] #AM: I guess pros and cons maybe of directions we can go for?
  769. [17:06:32] +Maki: would you really need firium to kill anything
  770. [17:06:34] roxiee: z: darm/cloy/sandslash/frost
  771. [17:06:39] +Mateeus_1: SiliconVGC: I main ice mono, and from my experience, I've found that it's usually better to hit fast and hard, with perhaps some balance in sub/roost kyurem and cloyster.
  772. [17:06:58] +Maki: having like ground z might cool to hit a tran if they think you're locked?
  773. [17:07:03] @maroon: thats valid
  774. [17:07:09] @maroon: i honestly prefer
  775. [17:07:09] roxiee: ooo
  776. [17:07:15] @maroon: band darm + scarf weav
  777. [17:07:18] roxiee: and pursuit weavile to pop the heatran bubble
  778. [17:07:23] @maroon: but then u also need avalugg
  779. [17:07:28] @maroon: which means u only have 1 slot left
  780. [17:07:58] #AM: yeah at that point you force your options
  781. [17:08:21] @maroon: i personally dislike sandslash
  782. [17:08:27] @maroon: and rn we have pilo and ninetales
  783. [17:08:36] @maroon: so imo the possibilities are between
  784. [17:08:50] @maroon: darmg, weavile, kyurem, cloyster, avalugg, mamoswine
  785. [17:08:55] roxiee: avalugg doesnt seem to make much progress against steel from experience, any tier with aegislash blocking spin just seems iffy tho, ig it phazes scizor-mega but its like whats next
  786. [17:09:20] @maroon: i guess you could use the
  787. [17:09:27] @maroon: defensive spin cloyster
  788. [17:09:30] Tico = 21: you could try Earthquake Avalugg, but isnt that good
  789. [17:09:34] @maroon: but then tht feels to close to the stack ice
  790. [17:09:35] @maroon: from ss
  791. [17:09:35] roxiee: once roar and you could position heatran or special aegislash in
  792. [17:10:23] #AM: so we hav nintetales pilo now or are we just figuring out direction?
  793. [17:10:35] #AM: so pilo is the rock setter
  794. [17:10:49] #AM: what other applications does it have on mono ice?
  795. [17:11:04] +Mateeus_1: it doubles as the type's main specially defensive wall
  796. [17:11:08] @maroon: its also the volcarona check
  797. [17:11:15] @maroon: and zardx
  798. [17:11:21] #AM: what a beast
  799. [17:11:25] roxiee: ground typing also gives volt immunity so you arent spammed
  800. [17:12:19] @maroon: so
  801. [17:12:25] @maroon: right now i think we need removal
  802. [17:12:34] @maroon: then we can focus on what to do next
  803. [17:12:37] #AM: what are the usual options here?
  804. [17:12:47] +Mateeus_1: usually avalugg is the go-to remover
  805. [17:12:52] @maroon: avalugg and cloyster can work
  806. [17:12:52] +Mateeus_1: and physical wall
  807. [17:12:59] @maroon: i geniunely hate using sandslash
  808. [17:13:10] @maroon: i think with
  809. [17:13:12] roxiee: understandable
  810. [17:13:13] #AM: any reason why?
  811. [17:13:22] @maroon: it just does everything badly
  812. [17:13:27] @maroon: its a bad spinner
  813. [17:13:31] @maroon: its a poor attacker
  814. [17:13:32] #AM: ic
  815. [17:13:37] @maroon: weak and feels slow even in hail
  816. [17:13:44] @maroon: underwhelming
  817. [17:13:53] +Mateeus_1: yeah alolan sandslash is a bad mon in natdex
  818. [17:14:06] +Mateeus_1: it had a niche as a slush abuser / offensive spinner in SM
  819. [17:14:21] #AM: ok so I guess deciding on cloy/avalugg/remover then that opens up the decision making process more
  820. [17:14:22] @maroon: !code
  821. Avalugg @ Heavy-Duty Boots
  822. Ability: Sturdy
  823. EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
  824. Impish Nature
  825. IVs: 0 Atk
  826. - Body Press
  827. - Iron Defense
  828. - Recover
  829. - Rapid Spin
  830. [17:14:25] roxiee: i think i wanna hl SiliconVGC's message on ice needing to have a punch or some power especially to make progress or potentially win games
  831. [17:14:28] +Mateeus_1: but better slush rushers came, and you have heavy duty boots on the potential spinners
  832. [17:14:29] @maroon: i do think this is out best bet
  833. [17:14:34] @maroon: unless were using waterium z cloyster
  834. [17:14:39] @maroon: or we just fold to mega scizor
  835. [17:15:00] +Mateeus_1: i feel like avalanche + roar is prob better outside of the steel mu imo
  836. [17:15:01] #AM: roxiee point above probably will be easier to figure out though
  837. [17:15:02] roxiee: im fine with roar tbh
  838. [17:15:51] #AM: do we want to figure out the remover after we find other partners or is it better to figure that out now then partners
  839. [17:15:57] #AM: in terms of synergy
  840. [17:16:04] #AM: cause m-scizor does seem annoying
  841. [17:16:16] @maroon: i feel like
  842. [17:16:20] @maroon: a problem with ice
  843. [17:16:27] @maroon: is you feel like ur always missing a piece
  844. [17:16:34] roxiee: thats me rn
  845. [17:16:36] @maroon: nothing really compresses well enough
  846. [17:16:42] @maroon: so ur always struggling somewhere
  847. [17:16:46] #AM: hm okay
  848. [17:17:06] @maroon: roxiee mateeus+1
  849. [17:17:12] roxiee: maybe we could try focusing on matchups other than steel?
  850. [17:17:12] @maroon: if we use roar avalnache
  851. [17:17:19] @maroon: i think we should use the shell smash cloyster
  852. [17:17:23] +Mateeus_1: ^ yeah
  853. [17:17:24] @maroon: with waterz
  854. [17:17:27] roxiee: smash cloy is nice
  855. [17:17:30] +Mateeus_1: the shell smash cloyster is still great
  856. [17:17:43] #AM: worth a shot
  857. [17:17:58] +Mateeus_1: I think we could
  858. [17:18:00] +Mateeus_1: poll it
  859. [17:18:06] roxiee: the z mover or
  860. [17:18:09] @maroon: !code
  861. Cloyster @ Waterium Z
  862. Ability: Skill Link
  863. EVs: 112 Atk / 144 SpA / 252 Spe
  864. Naive Nature
  865. - Shell Smash
  866. - Icicle Spear
  867. - Hydro Pump
  868. - Rock Blast / Hidden Power Fire
  869. [17:18:16] @maroon: hpfire is kinda memy
  870. [17:18:22] @maroon: but it does well vs steel
  871. [17:18:24] +Mateeus_1: i think
  872. [17:18:25] @maroon: like vs ferrothorn
  873. [17:18:30] roxiee: it hits ferro yeah
  874. [17:18:43] +Mateeus_1: max spa w/ hp fire is more optimal imo
  875. [17:18:49] @maroon: ok
  876. [17:18:53] +Mateeus_1: not only versus steel
  877. [17:19:02] +Mateeus_1: but you don't miss anything
  878. [17:19:06] roxiee: ninetales + pilo + ava + cloy/z is our current i think
  879. [17:19:30] #AM: I like the idea of spatk invested cloyster it seems neat
  880. [17:19:37] #AM: with hp fire
  881. [17:19:42] +Mateeus_1: !code
  882. Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
  883. Ability: Snow Warning
  884. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  885. Timid Nature
  886. IVs: 0 Atk
  887. - Aurora Veil
  888. - Moonblast
  889. - Freeze-Dry
  890. - Encore
  891. [17:19:44] +Mateeus_1: of
  892. [17:19:46] +Mateeus_1: oh forgot
  893. [17:19:48] #AM: gg
  894. [17:19:50] roxiee: gg
  895. [17:19:53] roxiee: we restarting
  896. [17:19:57] #AM: lol
  897. [17:20:14] @maroon: !code
  898. Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
  899. Ability: Snow Warning
  900. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  901. Timid Nature
  902. IVs: 0 Atk
  903. - Aurora Veil
  904. - Moonblast
  905. - Freeze-Dry
  906. - Encore
  907.  
  908. Piloswine @ Eviolite
  909. Ability: Thick Fat
  910. EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD
  911. Careful Nature
  912. - Stealth Rock
  913. - Earthquake
  914. - Rock Slide
  915. - Toxic
  916.  
  917. Cloyster @ Waterium Z
  918. Ability: Skill Link
  919. EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
  920. Naive Nature
  921. - Shell Smash
  922. - Icicle Spear
  923. - Hydro Pump
  924. - Hidden Power [Fire]
  925.  
  926. Avalugg @ Heavy-Duty Boots
  927. Ability: Sturdy
  928. - Avalanche
  929. - Roar
  930. - Recover
  931. - Rapid Spin
  932. [17:20:27] @maroon: oops make ava max hp max def bold
  933. [17:20:32] @maroon: impish
  934. [17:20:40] @maroon: !code
  935. Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
  936. Ability: Snow Warning
  937. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  938. Timid Nature
  939. IVs: 0 Atk
  940. - Aurora Veil
  941. - Moonblast
  942. - Freeze-Dry
  943. - Encore
  944.  
  945. Piloswine @ Eviolite
  946. Ability: Thick Fat
  947. EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD
  948. Careful Nature
  949. - Stealth Rock
  950. - Earthquake
  951. - Rock Slide
  952. - Toxic
  953.  
  954. Cloyster @ Waterium Z
  955. Ability: Skill Link
  956. EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
  957. Naive Nature
  958. - Shell Smash
  959. - Icicle Spear
  960. - Hydro Pump
  961. - Hidden Power [Fire]
  962.  
  963. Avalugg @ Heavy-Duty Boots
  964. Ability: Sturdy
  965. EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
  966. Impish Nature
  967. - Avalanche
  968. - Roar
  969. - Recover
  970. - Rapid Spin
  971. [17:20:50] @maroon: ok so for last 2
  972. [17:20:56] @maroon: band darm + scarf weav
  973. [17:21:06] @maroon: ?
  974. [17:21:12] roxiee: do we break poison
  975. [17:21:13] +Avarice: i rly gotta remove ava from my highlights
  976. [17:21:22] #AM: lol our bad
  977. [17:21:44] @maroon: another thing
  978. [17:21:48] @maroon: abt cloyster
  979. [17:21:52] @maroon: now were max spa
  980. [17:21:59] @maroon: do we make it overcoat and replace icicle spear
  981. [17:22:13] #AM: hm
  982. [17:22:13] +Mateeus_1: SiliconVGC: I won't lie, this team seems way too passive as is, Ninetails-A's mediocre special attack doesn't bode well for its damage output, and cloyster needs a turn without immediate offensive pressure for it to become a threat
  983. [17:22:20] @maroon: ok
  984. [17:22:22] @maroon: i have an idea
  985. [17:22:28] @maroon: whether yall like it or not lmk
  986. [17:22:33] @maroon: delete avalugg
  987. [17:22:39] @maroon: and delete ice coverage on cloy
  988. [17:22:42] @maroon: for rapid spin
  989. [17:22:52] roxiee: that doesnt sound bad
  990. [17:22:55] roxiee: we compress more roles
  991. [17:22:58] @maroon: ye
  992. [17:23:09] @maroon: mateeus thoughts
  993. [17:23:16] +Mateeus_1: i think that is workable, but id keep spear
  994. [17:23:20] +Mateeus_1: another slot gives us
  995. [17:23:35] +Mateeus_1: another mon to excel vs steel
  996. [17:23:47] roxiee: ehh but will it be as good as cloy tho
  997. [17:23:55] roxiee: cuz darm-g just gets scouted
  998. [17:24:00] +Mateeus_1: we can use
  999. [17:24:12] +Mateeus_1: kyurem, glastrier, even sub + 3a darm
  1000. [17:24:17] @maroon: ye
  1001. [17:24:25] @maroon: but then i dont like
  1002. [17:24:27] @maroon: no weav
  1003. [17:24:36] @maroon: its ur only thing tht keeps psychic
  1004. [17:24:39] @maroon: from memeing u
  1005. [17:24:45] roxiee: i support adding weavile
  1006. [17:24:49] +Mateeus_1: yeah weavile
  1007. [17:24:51] +Mateeus_1: is an auto add here
  1008. [17:24:58] roxiee: ninetales cloy weavile pilo
  1009. [17:24:58] #AM: lets add weavile and figure out the other stuff after
  1010. [17:25:02] roxiee: yes
  1011. [17:25:04] +Mateeus_1: yep
  1012. [17:25:06] itsrotten: yea
  1013. [17:25:14] #AM: since at least that way we know its there
  1014. [17:25:16] @maroon: cb or scarf weav
  1015. [17:25:30] +Mateeus_1: scarf
  1016. [17:25:37] roxiee: if we use cb we need scarf darm-g
  1017. [17:25:44] @maroon: true
  1018. [17:25:54] #AM: scarf weavile covers scarf latis right?
  1019. [17:25:56] roxiee: how common is uh scarf jirachi
  1020. [17:25:56] itsrotten: scarf seems better
  1021. [17:26:01] roxiee: yeah lati too
  1022. [17:26:17] @maroon: oh ye
  1023. [17:26:18] #AM: like the mono psychic I have in builder with screens has lot of fast stuff
  1024. [17:26:23] #AM: scarf weavile covers it
  1025. [17:26:30] roxiee: oo punishment weavile sounds like smthn id run to punish celebrate jirachi and vic
  1026. [17:26:37] @maroon: o
  1027. [17:26:43] #AM: that sounds neat
  1028. [17:26:43] @maroon: tht sounds interesting
  1029. [17:26:50] +Mateeus_1: !code
  1030. Weavile @ Choice Scarf
  1031. Ability: Pressure
  1032. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  1033. Jolly Nature
  1034. - Knock Off
  1035. - Icicle Crash
  1036. - Foul Play
  1037. - filler
  1038. [17:26:54] @maroon: !code
  1039. Weavile @ Choice Scarf
  1040. Ability: Pressure
  1041. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  1042. Jolly Nature
  1043. - Knock Off
  1044. - Icicle Crash
  1045. - Punishment
  1046. - Foul Play
  1047. [17:26:57] roxiee: OMG
  1048. [17:26:58] roxiee: IM FIRE
  1049. [17:27:07] #AM: whats build so far?
  1050. [17:27:12] +Mateeus_1: it doesnt get
  1051. [17:27:14] +Mateeus_1: punishment
  1052. [17:27:15] roxiee: oh
  1053. [17:27:16] +Mateeus_1: unfortunately
  1054. [17:27:19] roxiee: gg..
  1055. [17:27:29] @maroon: L
  1056. [17:27:31] itsrotten: lmao
  1057. [17:27:41] @maroon: !code
  1058. Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
  1059. Ability: Snow Warning
  1060. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  1061. Timid Nature
  1062. IVs: 0 Atk
  1063. - Aurora Veil
  1064. - Moonblast
  1065. - Freeze-Dry
  1066. - Encore
  1067.  
  1068. Piloswine @ Eviolite
  1069. Ability: Thick Fat
  1070. EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD
  1071. Careful Nature
  1072. - Stealth Rock
  1073. - Earthquake
  1074. - Rock Slide
  1075. - Toxic
  1076.  
  1077. Cloyster @ Waterium Z
  1078. Ability: Skill Link
  1079. EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
  1080. Naive Nature
  1081. IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
  1082. - Shell Smash
  1083. - Hydro Pump
  1084. - Hidden Power [Fire]
  1085. - Rapid Spin
  1086.  
  1087. Weavile @ Choice Scarf
  1088. Ability: Pressure
  1089. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  1090. Jolly Nature
  1091. - Knock Off
  1092. - Icicle Crash
  1093. - Low Kick
  1094. - Foul Play
  1095. [17:27:43] #AM: so filler is probably gonna be something like low kick/pursuit?
  1096. [17:27:51] @maroon: pursuit prob is better
  1097. [17:27:52] @maroon: actually
  1098. [17:28:03] @maroon: for things like victini
  1099. [17:28:03] +Mateeus_1: ya pursuit helps a ton
  1100. [17:28:12] @maroon: !code
  1101. Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
  1102. Ability: Snow Warning
  1103. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  1104. Timid Nature
  1105. IVs: 0 Atk
  1106. - Aurora Veil
  1107. - Moonblast
  1108. - Freeze-Dry
  1109. - Encore
  1110.  
  1111. Piloswine @ Eviolite
  1112. Ability: Thick Fat
  1113. EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD
  1114. Careful Nature
  1115. - Stealth Rock
  1116. - Earthquake
  1117. - Rock Slide
  1118. - Toxic
  1119.  
  1120. Cloyster @ Waterium Z
  1121. Ability: Skill Link
  1122. EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
  1123. Naive Nature
  1124. IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
  1125. - Shell Smash
  1126. - Hydro Pump
  1127. - Hidden Power [Fire]
  1128. - Rapid Spin
  1129.  
  1130. Weavile @ Choice Scarf
  1131. Ability: Pressure
  1132. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  1133. Jolly Nature
  1134. - Knock Off
  1135. - Icicle Crash
  1136. - Pursuit
  1137. - Foul Play
  1138. [17:28:12] +Mateeus_1: there's also Iron Tail to lure MDiancie t1
  1139. [17:28:13] @maroon: ok
  1140. [17:28:15] +Mateeus_1: against Fairy
  1141. [17:28:18] @maroon: so then glastrier + kyurem
  1142. [17:28:19] +Mateeus_1: but that's meme-y
  1143. [17:28:20] @maroon: ?
  1144. [17:28:38] +Mateeus_1: both at once?
  1145. [17:28:50] @maroon: hmm
  1146. [17:28:53] @maroon: i think
  1147. [17:28:54] roxiee: can cloy beat fairy o:
  1148. [17:28:59] @maroon: no
  1149. [17:29:05] @maroon: bulu hard stops that
  1150. [17:29:17] @maroon: unless we readd icicle spear
  1151. [17:29:20] roxiee: idt we need glast with fire + hydro cloy
  1152. [17:29:32] roxiee: but ig it breaks poison?
  1153. [17:29:41] @maroon: glast would help vs poison
  1154. [17:29:44] roxiee: kyurem is a nice scald absorber
  1155. [17:29:45] @maroon: but idk abt break
  1156. [17:29:48] itsrotten: what would the kyurem set be?
  1157. [17:29:48] @maroon: esp since mvenu
  1158. [17:29:50] @maroon: beats it
  1159. [17:30:26] #AM: does it beat a metronome kyurem or specs?
  1160. [17:31:01] #AM: so I guess you'd probably use like a hail rush mon in one of the last two slots?
  1161. [17:31:41] @maroon: !code
  1162. Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
  1163. Ability: Snow Warning
  1164. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  1165. Timid Nature
  1166. IVs: 0 Atk
  1167. - Aurora Veil
  1168. - Moonblast
  1169. - Freeze-Dry
  1170. - Encore
  1171.  
  1172. Piloswine @ Eviolite
  1173. Ability: Thick Fat
  1174. EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD
  1175. Careful Nature
  1176. - Stealth Rock
  1177. - Earthquake
  1178. - Rock Slide
  1179. - Toxic
  1180.  
  1181. Cloyster @ Waterium Z
  1182. Ability: Skill Link
  1183. EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
  1184. Naive Nature
  1185. IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
  1186. - Shell Smash
  1187. - Hydro Pump
  1188. - Hidden Power [Fire]
  1189. - Rapid Spin
  1190.  
  1191. Weavile @ Choice Scarf
  1192. Ability: Pressure
  1193. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  1194. Jolly Nature
  1195. - Knock Off
  1196. - Icicle Crash
  1197. - Pursuit
  1198. - Foul Play
  1199.  
  1200. Kyurem @ Heavy-Duty Boots
  1201. Ability: Pressure
  1202. EVs: 52 HP / 204 SpA / 252 Spe
  1203. Timid Nature
  1204. IVs: 0 Atk
  1205. - Substitute
  1206. - Freeze-Dry
  1207. - Earth Power
  1208. - Roost
  1209. [17:31:44] #AM: we have the spin with cloy in sort of a hybrid set
  1210. [17:31:45] @maroon: tht could work
  1211. [17:31:48] #AM: for role compression
  1212. [17:32:09] @maroon: altho usually the hail sweepers are underwhelming in mono
  1213. [17:32:10] #AM: cloy missing the extra 4 evs
  1214. [17:32:29] +Mateeus_1: i like arctozolt as a hail abuser if we're using one
  1215. [17:32:45] #AM: you would want your last slot to be a breaker right?
  1216. [17:32:51] +Mateeus_1: Yep
  1217. [17:32:53] @maroon: the prob with hail abusers
  1218. [17:32:53] @maroon: is
  1219. [17:32:59] @maroon: hail lasting 5 turns
  1220. [17:33:01] @maroon: is difficult
  1221. [17:33:09] @maroon: esp since u need to bclear hazards
  1222. [17:33:12] @maroon: since theyre all weak to them
  1223. [17:33:25] @maroon: i think we honestly just wrap this build up
  1224. [17:33:28] @maroon: with band gorilla
  1225. [17:33:35] #AM: yeah seems strong
  1226. [17:33:36] roxiee: yeah
  1227. [17:33:38] roxiee: i agree
  1228. [17:33:39] +Mateeus_1: yep that will do imo
  1229. [17:33:40] #AM: muscles through anything fat
  1230. [17:33:43] itsrotten: band darm is a good breaker
  1231. [17:33:59] @maroon: https://pokepast.es/69beab7561810b14
  1232. [17:34:08] @maroon: that looks like a wrap
  1233. [17:34:11] roxiee: alright, thats it
  1234. [17:34:14] roxiee: any questions
  1235. [17:34:18] @maroon: am should i nunmod chat for qs
  1236. [17:34:22] @maroon: and stuff
  1237. [17:34:23] roxiee: yes
  1238. [17:34:23] #AM: one second
  1239. [17:34:24] +Mateeus_1: i think
  1240. [17:34:26] +Mateeus_1: darmg
  1241. [17:34:30] +Mateeus_1: likes fpunch
  1242. [17:34:35] @maroon: ew
  1243. [17:34:38] #AM: lol
  1244. [17:34:39] +Mateeus_1: fire punch
  1245. [17:34:39] roxiee: [17:34:30] SiliconVGC: Cloyster has no multihit moves, which makes skill link useless, and since it's not white herb, sash pokemon can revenge kill it.
  1246. [17:34:40] @maroon: power>all
  1247. [17:34:44] +Mateeus_1: well u still
  1248. [17:34:46] roxiee: !dt cloyster
  1249. [17:34:47] +Mateeus_1: ohko stuff with sr
  1250. [17:34:48] @maroon: ye i meant to change it to
  1251. [17:34:49] @maroon: overcoat
  1252. [17:34:53] roxiee: ya overcoat
  1253. [17:34:57] @maroon: or shell armor
  1254. [17:34:59] @maroon: could be cool
  1255. [17:34:59] roxiee: omg
  1256. [17:35:02] @maroon: for no crits
  1257. [17:35:05] roxiee: shell armor helps with urshifu
  1258. [17:35:10] @maroon: oooo
  1259. [17:35:13] @maroon: im sold
  1260. [17:35:25] #AM: doesnt it just click cc anyways?
  1261. [17:35:37] #AM: overcoat seems better for deterring sand damage
  1262. [17:35:37] roxiee: not behind screens
  1263. [17:35:40] @maroon: https://pokepast.es/3b56a70f6b80c1aa
  1264. [17:35:47] @maroon: hmm
  1265. [17:36:06] roxiee: it doesnt do anything to sand teams tho tbff without ice coverage but:
  1266. [17:36:06] roxiee: [17:35:44] SiliconVGC: shell armor I think would be best, most spore and powder users don't want to stay in on what they think has ice STAB
  1267. [17:36:34] roxiee: liking shell armor
  1268. [17:36:42] #AM: up to you guys really
  1269. [17:36:50] #AM: just need reasoning for it
  1270. [17:36:51] @maroon: both wicked blow and cc
  1271. [17:36:56] #AM: so people can be aware
  1272. [17:36:56] @maroon: are the same exact role
  1273. [17:37:00] @maroon: behind veil
  1274. [17:37:06] @maroon: unless its black glasses shifu
  1275. [17:37:29] @maroon: so chances are they might click wicked blow
  1276. [17:37:30] @maroon: bz of tht
  1277. [17:37:35] @maroon: but they fail to crit
  1278. [17:37:47] @maroon: 252 Atk Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster with an ally's Aurora Veil: 39-46 (16.1 - 19%) -- possible 6HKO
  1279. [17:37:52] @maroon: and u take advantage of it
  1280. [17:38:18] @maroon: i think u could swing either way
  1281. [17:38:19] #AM: hm okay
  1282. [17:38:29] @maroon: ill provide a description for both in the post
  1283. [17:38:34] #AM: I guess you can pick one maybe explain later in paste the merits
  1284. [17:38:36] #AM: yeah
  1285. [17:38:39] @maroon: am u got the final teams right
  1286. [17:38:51] @maroon: i gotta bounce, but ill get the post rdy by tonight
  1287. [17:38:59] #AM: https://pokepast.es/d5277a4975038a41
  1288. [17:39:10] #AM: any last thoughts before I close out
  1289. [17:39:19] #AM: shell armor on cloy or overcoat for now?
  1290. [17:39:30] @maroon: shell armor imo
  1291. [17:39:37] roxiee: armor
  1292. [17:39:39] +Mateeus_1: shell armor yeah
  1293. [17:39:39] #AM: ok I changed it
  1294. [17:39:44] #AM: going to wrap up
  1295. [17:39:44] @maroon: pce
  1296. [17:39:54] itsrotten: all good
  1297. [17:39:55] #AM: thanks everyone for all the help with Monotype workshop
  1298. [17:40:01] itsrotten was promoted to Room regular user by maroon.
  1299. [17:40:05] roxiee was promoted to Room regular user by maroon.
  1300. [17:40:08] roxiee: thanks
  1301. [17:40:09] roxiee: :D
  1302. [17:40:17] Tico = 21 was promoted to Room regular user by maroon.
  1303. [17:40:25] #AM: and thank you to all the contributions by everyone for another smooth workshop
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