Political Debate - Coca-Cola Death Squad vs Pomenir

Coca-Cola Death Squad: what is your ideology
Pomenir: Don't worry about it
Coca-Cola Death Squad: i wanna know tho
Pomenir: Anarchy is pretty fine
Coca-Cola Death Squad: What branch of anarchy?
Coca-Cola Death Squad: IMO anarchy will just devolve into city states, tribalism, or dictatorship, different branches of anarchy will lead to different results
Pomenir: tbh dictatorship of Havok would be nice
Pomenir: The only just government is one with fuckable traps
Pomenir: all else is tyranny
Coca-Cola Death Squad: tyranny cant exist forever
Coca-Cola Death Squad: wait]
Coca-Cola Death Squad: no
Coca-Cola Death Squad: thats tyranny
Coca-Cola Death Squad: not anarchy
Coca-Cola Death Squad: fug
Coca-Cola Death Squad: i mixed them up because theyre the same
Pomenir: what
Coca-Cola Death Squad: anarchy swiftly becomes tyranny
Coca-Cola Death Squad: the more collectivist the form of anarchy, the fastest, and the most bloody
Coca-Cola Death Squad: AnCaps devolution into dictatorship is the slowest, as the people begin as individualists, trading amongst themselves as they pleaser
Coca-Cola Death Squad: But as raiders become more numerous, they gravitate towards private security/police forces, which become the new city states
Pomenir: I don't see how collectivism would lead to tyranny when there wouldn't be a body like that
Coca-Cola Death Squad: It would fall together as the need for organisation rises
Coca-Cola Death Squad: People would gather behind those that knew what they were doing
Coca-Cola Death Squad: The people that know what they are doing become the new dictators
Coca-Cola Death Squad: they may be benevolent
Coca-Cola Death Squad: but this isnt anarchy anymore
Pomenir: >benevolent dictatorship
Pomenir: ahahahaha
Coca-Cola Death Squad: and of course the blood shed for the revolution
Coca-Cola Death Squad: they may not be benevolent
Coca-Cola Death Squad: that was the best case scenario
Coca-Cola Death Squad: and what of their descendants, the people who shall take the red throne after them
Pomenir: Republics will always have "Mr. Rich Government man is going to help me!" which never ends well
Coca-Cola Death Squad: will they be as good, if they were ever
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Which is why the government must be limited to little more than its core function
Coca-Cola Death Squad: The primary function of government is to protect its citizens who provide them with taxes
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Those that want this and no more are called minarchists
Coca-Cola Death Squad: you may have heard of them
Pomenir: Yes.
Coca-Cola Death Squad: though some want slightly more function out of these governments, they still want some public function, but lots of free room
Coca-Cola Death Squad: these are the libertarians
Coca-Cola Death Squad: some still want economic liberalism, but want stricter regulation on morality (i disagree with this)
Coca-Cola Death Squad: These are the paleoconservatives and paleolibertarians
Coca-Cola Death Squad: And then you have neocons and neolibs, which don't even want economic liberalism, just whatever fattens their pocket book
Coca-Cola Death Squad: And of course, the nutters (imo) who dislike the role of government at all, the ancaps
Coca-Cola Death Squad: although in this day and age of nation states, ancap is unsustainable, and (as i said before) will become capitalist (most likely) dictatorships
Coca-Cola Death Squad: in the city state model
Pomenir: I'd like to ask you: How do you think developing technology will effect labor and employment?
Pomenir: Say, automation and artificial intelligence.
Coca-Cola Death Squad: It will close some opportunities for employment, and open new ones
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Look at the jump from the agricultural age to the industrial age for example
Pomenir: But there is no rule that there will always be employment for humans
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Perhaps not
Coca-Cola Death Squad: If so
Coca-Cola Death Squad: The great paradise should be ushered in naturally with no revolution, right?
Coca-Cola Death Squad: If that's the case, then I'm all for it
Pomenir: But in this case, who controls the automation?
Pomenir: How can one work for money when he has been outclassed?
Coca-Cola Death Squad: By gitting gud
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Guess what
Pomenir: How does one sell labor when one's labor has no value?
Coca-Cola Death Squad: they already debated this
Coca-Cola Death Squad: they tried it
Coca-Cola Death Squad: in october
Pomenir: "They"?
Coca-Cola Death Squad: 1917
Coca-Cola Death Squad: And look how that turned out
Pomenir: >authoritarianism
Coca-Cola Death Squad: You can try to coordinate an anarchist revolution
Pomenir: No fucking surprise it ended that way lmao
Coca-Cola Death Squad: but will it stay anarchist?
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Or will it become authoritarian?
Coca-Cola Death Squad: *eats frankfurter sausage*
Pomenir: if it "falls" from anarchy to authoritarism, where does it fall next? It's not linear like that.
Coca-Cola Death Squad: In the face of strife, it cannot stay anarchist, it must organise in a way that is efficient and effective
Pomenir: Anarchy can be efficient and effective.
Coca-Cola Death Squad: And as much as I hate to say it, dictatorship is efficient
Coca-Cola Death Squad: How do you know?
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Can it organise an army?
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Can it house the people? And feed them?
Pomenir: The government doesn't have magic, everyone is still there. It doesn't make food or soldiers out of nothing.
Coca-Cola Death Squad: No
Coca-Cola Death Squad: But it can organise and train them into farmers and soldiers
Pomenir: In the case of food and shelter, those are actually quite easy.
Pomenir: Especially with technology at the point we have today, and the point we will have in the future.
Coca-Cola Death Squad: That is true
Coca-Cola Death Squad: But as technology progresses
Coca-Cola Death Squad: so does the population
Coca-Cola Death Squad: If the population in the industrial era had todays technology, then poverty would likely not exist
Pomenir: It would if they still had the economic structure they did back then
Coca-Cola Death Squad: How will the they obtain structure in anarchy?
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Will everyone simply join their hands and focus on the same idea completely?
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Or will people be divided amongst different ideas and unwilling to work with others due to a lack of structure for a society?
Pomenir: I'd assume them to be more willing to work *with* others as opposed to *for* others
Coca-Cola Death Squad: That's a pretty big assumption
Pomenir: Do you think people more likely to subjugate themselves?
Coca-Cola Death Squad: In your ideal form of ancom, people will be able to freely express their ideeas, yes?
Coca-Cola Death Squad: They do not see it as subjugation
Coca-Cola Death Squad: As opposed to freedom
Coca-Cola Death Squad: they see it as order
Coca-Cola Death Squad: as opposed to chaos
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Humans are creatures of order
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Which is why we have tribes with leaders and not disconnected herds like prey in a pasture
Coca-Cola Death Squad: It is more efficient to have these leaders than to not
Coca-Cola Death Squad: which is why we did
Pomenir: It really isn't. A single person is stagnation.
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Yes it is
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Order is stagnation
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Which is why you have internal competition
Coca-Cola Death Squad: I am in favour of dictatorship, but it is efficient
Pomenir: Sounds rather inefficient to have internal competition.
Coca-Cola Death Squad: I am a libertarian leading conservative though
Coca-Cola Death Squad: internal competition in the market
Coca-Cola Death Squad: From competition comes more efficient ways to survive
Coca-Cola Death Squad: The nazis built enigma to hide messages
Coca-Cola Death Squad: The allies created colossus to combat this
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Kingdoms built walls
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Outsiders built guns and cannons
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Kingdoms build better walls
Coca-Cola Death Squad: The barbarians build better cannons
Pomenir: If you must argue for efficiency, why cling to a system that does not apply to a world where one's labor cannot be sold?
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Are we in a world where one's labour cannot be sold?
Coca-Cola Death Squad: We'll build that bridge when we get to it
Coca-Cola Death Squad: When labour cannot be sold, people will create their own productive outlets for labour
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Self-avowed capitalists are often pro-entrepreneur and small business
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Instead of selling your labour, use it yourself and reap the rewards
Coca-Cola Death Squad: If someone decides to buy it, then good! You have sold your labour and proved that labour can still be sold.
Coca-Cola Death Squad: If no one can buy it, then you can at least sustain yourself.
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Well that was a fun conversation.
Pomenir: Gay
Pomenir: Lmao
Coca-Cola Death Squad: no but srsly what did you feel about that
Coca-Cola Death Squad: Have I bought you to the light of green paper
Pomenir: I mean I enjoyed talking about my ideology
Coca-Cola Death Squad: same here
Pomenir: but no I'm very ancom
Coca-Cola Death Squad: k
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