20:20]  Koi:	 the problem with a fist
[20:20]  Koi:	 you need to use a fist
[20:21]  Koi:	 stunning blow exists for everything else
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[20:22]  Koi:	 not sure how that would really even be a problem
[20:22]  +CSIStormreach:	 Good evening folks!
[20:23]  Koi:	 a kensei can be centered with a longbow and manyshot
[20:23]  Koi:	 good evening
[20:23]  DDOChatter_06:	 Hi, hello :)
[20:23]  +CSIStormreach:	 How is everyone tonight?
[20:23]  Koi:	 or a great crossbow and endless fusilade
[20:24]  DDOChatter_06:	 For me, it depends
[20:24]  +CSIStormreach:	 Great crossbows do not work with endless fusilade.
[20:24]  Koi:	 well that explains why most people still use repeaters
[20:25]  DagazUlf:	 heyas
[20:25]  Koi:	 can't even find many rogues that use great crossbow
[20:26]  DDOChatter_06:	 Please tell me one thing. There's a quest in Korthos, one of the first outside the city... and there are locked doors, that I have to open to proceed. Is there any chance to open it without a rogue?
[20:26]  Koi:	 which quest and which door?
[20:26]  Koi:	 you talking about a secret door?
[20:26]  DDOChatter_06:	 let me check...
[20:27]  +CSIStormreach:	 Yes is the answer.
[20:27]  +CSIStormreach:	 None of the Korthos quests (or almost all the quests for that matter) require a trapper.
[20:27]  Koi:	 are you a fighter with no search?
[20:28]  +CSIStormreach:	 There may be additional rares or chests but none that "Require" a trapper to complete.
[20:28]  +CSIStormreach:	 Koi: He mentioned locked doors.
[20:28]  Koi:	 there are no heroic hirelings outside the DDO store that would help
[20:28]  +CSIStormreach:	 Not "hidden" doors
[20:28]  Koi:	 hidden doors are locked until you find them
[20:28]  DDOChatter_06:	 I can't find the name, but its the one in the cannith manufactury
[20:28]  +CSIStormreach:	 Koi: No
[20:28]  +CSIStormreach:	 That is inaccurate
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[20:29]  Koi:	 it depends on how you mean
[20:29]  +CSIStormreach:	 DDOChatter_06: You are referring to the side tunnel with the iron defenders, it is simply an additional chest.
[20:29]  DDOChatter_06:	 at the beggining, there are these cristals
[20:29]  Koi:	 we have a lot of people from other countries
[20:29]  DDOChatter_06:	 you have to destroy them to proceed
[20:29]  +CSIStormreach:	 Koi: Then you would be misleading them more .  Locked does not equal hidden or vice versa.
[20:29]  DDOChatter_06:	 and they are behind a door
[20:29]  +CSIStormreach:	 In fact I don't think I have ever seen a locked hidden door.
[20:30]  +CSIStormreach:	 DDOChatter_06: You do not need to destroy them
[20:30]  +CSIStormreach:	 Continue the quest and you will find a shrine with a lever in in, that will open a gate to the cannith crysteals you must disable via valves and then destroy.
[20:30]  DDOChatter_06:	 don't I have to destroy them to disable the forcefield?
[20:30]  +CSIStormreach:	 Nope
[20:30]  DDOChatter_06:	 <facepalm> im stupid :P
[20:30]  +CSIStormreach:	 The iron defenders are just an additional "chest" :)
[20:30]  DDOChatter_06:	 thanks a lot, I will try :D
[20:30]  +CSIStormreach:	 No worries
[20:31]  Koi:	 you might also want to kill them before breaking crystals
[20:31]  Koi:	 if they are in your monster manual
[20:32]  Koi:	 you won't find easier constructs to kill
[20:32]  +CSIStormreach:	 He can't open the door...
[20:32]  Koi:	 i don't know
[20:32]  +CSIStormreach:	 Huh?  This was the question he asked! :)
[20:32]  Koi:	 depends on UMD skill and availability of knock scroll
[20:33]  +CSIStormreach:	 He is a first life character, running Korthos quests.
[20:33]  DDOChatter_06:	 actually its the third time I try to do this quest and not even once I'v spotted the lever ;)
[20:33]  Koi:	 could have a scroll from a chest then
[20:33]  +CSIStormreach:	 You  "can't" have the UMD to use it.
[20:33]  DDOChatter_06:	 One time I've played with a rogue, so it was not a problem
[20:34]  Koi:	 you don't need to go in that room to do the quest
[20:34]  Koi:	 if that is what you mean
[20:34]  +CSIStormreach:	 Koi: You hurt my head sometimes!  That is what I told him 5 minutes ago when you started talking hirelings and locked hidden doors.
[20:34]  DDOChatter_06:	 I mean the room with blue cristals and I'm quite sure I do. I'll be there in a moment and check that
[20:35]  Koi:	 ok that's not the room i thought then
[20:35]  Koi:	 there is another locked roo
[20:35]  Koi:	 room
[20:35]  Koi:	 2 others really
[20:35]  Koi:	 by the way you mean
[20:35]  +CSIStormreach:	 There is only one locked room in that quest which is not opened via another quest objective.
[20:36]  Koi:	 i know the quest
[20:36]  Koi:	 i reember my first character doing that
[20:36]  Koi:	 he is still first life
[20:36]  Koi:	 and there aren't any level 2 scrolls he can't UMD now
[20:37]  Koi:	 knock works on 1 of hte 3 locked doors
[20:38]  +CSIStormreach:	 Grr.
[20:38]  +CSIStormreach:	 Knock is the same as picking, it will work on any lock that can be disabled via "open door"
[20:38]  +CSIStormreach:	 It can NOT be UMDed at that level.
[20:38]  Koi:	 i did it wrong then
[20:38]  +CSIStormreach:	 The other two doors are opened via quest objectives.
[20:38]  DagazUlf:	 lol
[20:39]  Koi:	 i know what you are trying to say
[20:39]  DDOChatter_06:	 ok, sure I'm blind or stupid, there were a valve and it opened the door. thanks :)
[20:39]  +CSIStormreach:	 I don't think you do.
[20:39]  +CSIStormreach:	 You are giving false information.
[20:39]  +CSIStormreach:	 It doesn't help.  Please confirm you info before you supply it.
[20:39]  Koi:	 i didn't know LFM panel existed when i first opened that door
[20:40]  DagazUlf:	 troll bait
[20:40]  Koi:	 there is nothing to confirm
[20:40]  +CSIStormreach:	 Koi: Yes there is.
[20:40]  Koi:	 just having to know what he was asking
[20:40]  +CSIStormreach:	 You are flat out WRONG on Knock scrolls and UMD.
[20:41]  Koi:	 what race and class?
[20:41]  Koi:	 and which feats
[20:41]  +CSIStormreach:	 Any
[20:41]  Koi:	 how about a human rogue with UMD feat
[20:41]  +CSIStormreach:	 Still won't have enough by 5.
[20:41]  +CSIStormreach:	 or 10 IIRC.
[20:41]  Koi:	 and +6 skill boost
[20:41]  +CSIStormreach:	 Nope
[20:42]  +CSIStormreach:	 The check is up in the 20s
[20:42]  Koi:	 and UMD gloves from ecromancer's doom
[20:42]  +CSIStormreach:	 "Maybe" a Bard with maxed CHA and all gear can do it by Level 5.
[20:42]  +CSIStormreach:	 DC24 at Level 3
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[20:43]  Koi:	 i was level 4 before i got out of korthos
[20:43]  +CSIStormreach:	 THIS IS MY POINT!
[20:43]  +CSIStormreach:	 I am trying not to argue, his question was very basic and I want him to think that it is welcoming here
[20:43]  Koi:	 and all it takes to be a fighter in korhtos is a couple fighter levels
[20:43]  +CSIStormreach:	 But every reply you had to him led him down the wrong path with incorrect info.
[20:43]  Koi:	 maybe just 1
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[20:44]  +CSIStormreach:	 What does that have to do with UMD and Knock?
[20:44]  Koi:	 a wizard splash
[20:44]  Koi:	 fighter with 95% chance to use before UMD gloves
[20:44]  peri:	 yes koi by answering with an extreme outlier case you aren't helping anyone
[20:44]  +CSIStormreach:	 NO
[20:44]  DDOChatter_06:	 Guys, it doesn't matter :P
[20:44]  +CSIStormreach:	 A wizard splash still won't give it
[20:45]  +CSIStormreach:	 Hell, wizards can't even cast it themselves until level 3
[20:45]  Koi:	 you have to be level 3 wizard to cast knock
[20:45]  +CSIStormreach:	 Please see my line above you.
[20:45]  peri:	 DDOChatter_06: it's normal koi is being obstinate and dickish for no reason
[20:45]  Koi:	 you specifically asked about UMD
[20:45]  Koi:	 no casting it
[20:46]  +CSIStormreach:	 WTF?!?!
[20:46]  peri:	 see
[20:46]  peri:	 :D
[20:46]  +CSIStormreach:	 You said he could UMD it!
[20:46]  Koi:	 he can
[20:46]  Koi:	 having wizard levels helps
[20:46]  DagazUlf:	 hence why he's the first person on my ignore list in about a decade
[20:46]  +CSIStormreach:	 What part of this aren't you getting?
[20:46]  Koi:	 what level is he?
[20:46]  +CSIStormreach:	 If a wizard can't even cast it until level 3
[20:46]  Koi:	 i said that
[20:46]  +CSIStormreach:	 what makes you think another class has a friggen chance before then
[20:46]  Koi:	 casting it wouldn't require UMD
[20:46]  +CSIStormreach:	 No, I understand
[20:47]  +CSIStormreach:	 Typically to reach a DC for a UMD requires a level about 10 ABOVE a wizard casting it naturally
[20:47]  Koi:	 UMD feat is +15% chance
[20:47]  +CSIStormreach:	 Great
[20:47]  +CSIStormreach:	 That doesn't change anything
[20:47]  Koi:	 rogue skill boost is +30% chance
[20:47]  +CSIStormreach:	 When he is still 90% against him
[20:47]  +CSIStormreach:	 or 97%
[20:47]  Koi:	 UMD gloves are +5% chance
[20:47]  Koi:	 charisma stat bonus adds in
[20:48]  +CSIStormreach:	 Yes
[20:48]  +CSIStormreach:	 And he will still be NO WHERE near it.
[20:48]  Koi:	 and you said not possible
[20:48]  +CSIStormreach:	 It isn't
[20:48]  +CSIStormreach:	 Instead of arguing with me, please "confirm" your information and prove me wrong.
[20:48]  +CSIStormreach:	 I will shut up forever.
[20:48]  +CSIStormreach:	 You show me a character below level 5 with the right gear, and feats to be able to UMD it
[20:49]  Koi:	 i still have first life characters who can knock the chest door to get UMD gloves in Necromancer's Doom
[20:49]  +CSIStormreach:	 And on some odd chance that you possibly do, it will require all the feats to make his character useless, kust to be able ot UMD it.
[20:49]  +CSIStormreach:	 Ya, maybe at level 14
[20:49]  Koi:	 just because you don't make characters that do what mine do doesn;t mean it's not possible
[20:49]  +CSIStormreach:	 And those UMD gloves are NOT 5%, they are +1
[20:49]  +CSIStormreach:	 Koi: You are being stuborn on purpose, show me the math for your amazing one of a kind character who can do it.
[20:49]  Koi:	 so the wiki says
[20:50]  +CSIStormreach:	 Until then I am done with the conversation.
[20:50]  Koi:	 how much percent does your chance to use increase when you equip them?
[20:50]  Koi:	 the yellow text on a wand or scroll
[20:50]  peri:	 Even if it is possible to do it
[20:50]  peri:	 it is not feasible to do it
[20:50]  Koi:	 requires reading before and after equipping gloves
[20:51]  peri:	 like you can make a 3 con character with less than 30hp at 20
[20:51]  Koi:	 JohnRove told me he found those gloves
[20:51]  peri:	 but why
[20:51]  peri:	 it's just stupid
[20:51]  +CSIStormreach:	 Koi: EVERYONE has those gloves
[20:51]  Koi:	 i mean he said it like i said it "5%"
[20:51]  +CSIStormreach:	 No, it is +1 to UMD.
[20:52] DagazUlf	 hugs his ignore list
[20:52]  +CSIStormreach:	 You may perceive that as +5% because of a "dice roll" and that a single result on a d20 is 5%, but the UMD check is a roll + value.
[20:54]  Koi:	 dice roll not required to find out
[20:54]  +CSIStormreach:	 Huh?
[20:54]  Koi:	 just simple subtraction
[20:54]  +CSIStormreach:	 Then please, enlighten me with your maths that allow you to scroll whip UMD at less then level 5
[20:55]  Koi:	 wear gloves and read a yellow number
[20:55]  +CSIStormreach:	 What do you mean by "read a yellow number?
[20:55]  Koi:	 remove gloves and bsubtract yellow bnumber
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[20:55]  +CSIStormreach:	 That number will vary by more or less then 5 depending on your naturally skill score!
[20:56]  Koi:	 or if you can craft, make a command item and a persuation item
[20:56]  +CSIStormreach:	 Again, I want to know how "you" did this less then level 5
[20:56]  +CSIStormreach:	 Get me there with your maths
[20:57]  Koi:	 it doesn't even need to be a human the way i described
[20:57]  +CSIStormreach:	 You haven't described it yet...
[20:59]  Koi:	 it's the same thing with the yellow numbers
[21:00]  Koi:	 equip but this time with a command item and a persuasion item
[21:01]  Koi:	 i know the dice roll you are talking about though
[21:01]  Koi:	 but until using an item the dice roll doesn't matter
[21:02]  Koi:	 you are talking about the benefit of using the gloves
[21:02]  peri:	 Having 1 umd and trying to use a scroll like dimension door has 0% of succeeding
[21:02]  Koi:	 those gloves don't cap your UMD
[21:02]  peri:	 equipping a item with +1 umd (or +5% like you said) doesn't increase your umd chance of succeeding
[21:02]  peri:	 it'll still be below the minimum amount
[21:03]  Koi:	 you are arguing a hypothetical character that i make
[21:03]  peri:	 No
[21:03]  peri:	 I'm stating a fact
[21:03]  Koi:	 with a level 4 like i was before i ever got out of
[21:03]  Koi:	 Korthos
[21:04]  peri:	 you are just being dumb again
[21:04]  peri:	 dickish and dumb
[21:04]  Koi:	 the whole point was for a 5 minute quest
[21:04]  Koi:	 not 5 minutes for people who don't know it
[21:05]  Koi:	 i get my info by doing stuff in a quest not by reading what someone typed in a wiki
[21:05]  Koi:	 if the wiki is not good info i wouldn't be surprised
[21:06]  Koi:	 but things like that i don't need to look on a wiki to find out something i have already done
[21:06]  Koi:	 UMD skill
[21:06]  Koi:	 yes the skill
[21:06]  Koi:	 not even talking about the feat yet
[21:06]  Koi:	 charisma stat and UMD skill boost from it
[21:07]  Koi:	 UMD items
[21:07]  Koi:	 charisma skill boost items
[21:07]  +CSIStormreach:	 The point is that the ifnormation you were providing was inaccurate
[21:07]  +CSIStormreach:	 Because you don't understand the math behind them
[21:07]  peri:	 and not feasible
[21:07]  +CSIStormreach:	 this is why you said a 5% boost to UMD when it is +1
[21:07]  Koi:	 knock scroll with a wizard splash
[21:07]  +CSIStormreach:	 The maths don't add up
[21:07]  +CSIStormreach:	 even with a +5 to UMD you need to roll a 19 to cast it
[21:08]  Koi:	 how much chance to use a scroll you get the next time you level up?
[21:08]  +CSIStormreach:	 That is a 5% chance.
[21:08]  +CSIStormreach:	 It doesn't change unless your UMD skill does.
[21:08]  +CSIStormreach:	 a Know Scroll is caster level 3 which is a DC of 24.
[21:08]  Koi:	 let's assume 2 levels of fighter and 2 levels of wizard
[21:08]  Koi:	 since you said "not possible"
[21:09]  +CSIStormreach:	 What is the UMD score? :P
[21:09]  +CSIStormreach:	 As neither of those things affect it.
[21:09]  Koi:	 and 3 levels of wizard would be exact opposite of "not possible"
[21:09]  +CSIStormreach:	 3 levels of wizard mean you can cast it naturally
[21:09]  +CSIStormreach:	 you do NOT UMD it.
[21:09]  +CSIStormreach:	 And even then, that is for the spell, not the scroll which is caster level 3
[21:09]  Koi:	 2 levels of wizard doesn't UMD a knock scroll?
[21:10]  +CSIStormreach:	 no
[21:10]  Koi:	 then you just proved me right
[21:10]  +CSIStormreach:	 WTF?!?
[21:10]  Koi:	 becase it's not a UMD dice roll
[21:10]  +CSIStormreach:	 OMFG!
[21:11]  +CSIStormreach:	 A "Level 2 Wizard" can NOT UMD a Knock scroll.
[21:11]  Koi:	 we are talking about what is possible vs. impossible
[21:11]  +CSIStormreach:	 You aren't even making sense!
[21:11]  Koi:	 i'm just talking about characters i have on servers right now
[21:11]  +CSIStormreach:	 Provide me the math!
[21:12]  +CSIStormreach:	 Give me an example of your level 2 wizard that cast it
[21:12]  Koi:	 UMD 0.5
[21:12]  +CSIStormreach:	 (or orgue as you said before)
[21:12]  Koi:	 charisma 14
[21:12]  +CSIStormreach:	 Well first .5 ranks don't count.
[21:12]  +CSIStormreach:	 So you have a +2 to UMD
[21:12]  Koi:	 it doesn't matter how many ranks you put in it
[21:12]  +CSIStormreach:	 ?!?
[21:13]  Koi:	 put 2 in it then
[21:13]  +CSIStormreach:	 Then why did you bring up a .5 rank?
[21:13]  Koi:	 because that makes UMD possible
[21:13]  +CSIStormreach:	 You "NEED" a +5 in it to even have a "CHANCE" to UMD it
[21:13]  +CSIStormreach:	 And that is a 5% chance of casting
[21:13]  Koi:	 it's not for casting it's for activating
[21:13]  +CSIStormreach:	 I know :)
[21:13]  +CSIStormreach:	 DC 24
[21:13]  Koi:	 UMD = Use Magic Device
[21:14]  +CSIStormreach:	 24 - 5 = 19 :)
[21:14]  Koi:	 what level of wizard can activate a knock scroll?
[21:14]  +CSIStormreach:	 5
[21:14]  +CSIStormreach:	 The scroll is caster level 3
[21:14]  +CSIStormreach:	 The point is that they can cast it naturally at level 3
[21:14]  +CSIStormreach:	 That is "Wizard Level 3"
[21:14]  +CSIStormreach:	 Not 2 fighter 1 wizard
[21:14]  Koi:	 at leverl 3 what wizard can't have knock in spellbook?
[21:15]  +CSIStormreach:	 And that is by caster level and NOTHING to do with UMD
[21:15]  Koi:	 level 3 wizard
[21:15]  +CSIStormreach:	 As a wizard you have to be level 3 to cast it via spell book
[21:15]  peri:	 a lvl 3 wizard can cast it without ANY points in umd
[21:15]  peri:	 well activate
[21:15]  Koi:	 for this discussion we are talking about UMD or activate
[21:15]  +CSIStormreach:	 We are talking about UMD
[21:15]  Koi:	 possible vs. impossible
[21:15]  +CSIStormreach:	 which is what you suggested the person use
[21:16]  +CSIStormreach:	 Koi I am going to ban your ass :)
[21:16]  +CSIStormreach:	 At Level 3 Wizard you are NOT using UMD
[21:16]  Koi:	 what year is your info from?  was there a bug?
[21:16]  +CSIStormreach:	 my info is basic DDO math!!!
[21:16]  +CSIStormreach:	 No bug, no year, no wiki
[21:16]  +CSIStormreach:	 Knock is a level 2 wizard spell
[21:16]  Koi:	 i'm talking about unlocking the door to runic gloves
[21:16]  +CSIStormreach:	 It means it can be "cast" at levle 3
[21:17]  Koi:	 with a knock scroll
[21:17]  +CSIStormreach:	 A knock scroll is UMD DC 24
[21:17]  +CSIStormreach:	 which requires a minimum of +5 UMD score to have a "5%" chance of casting
[21:17]  Koi:	 and i said use a skill boost
[21:17]  +CSIStormreach:	 So what skill boost item below level 5 gets you there?
[21:18]  Koi:	 why are you not including everything i said when you asked me to describe how
[21:18]  +CSIStormreach:	 And by there I mean you have a 1 in 20 chance of it actually casting
[21:18]  +CSIStormreach:	 You didn't include anything!
[21:18]  +CSIStormreach:	 So lets say you had an 18 CHA at level3
[21:18]  Koi:	 i even said rogue skill boost
[21:18]  +CSIStormreach:	 that is +3 UMD
[21:18]  +CSIStormreach:	 add skill boost
[21:18]  +CSIStormreach:	 so +2
[21:18]  +CSIStormreach:	 now you have a 5% chance to cast on a rogue that spent all its points in Charisma instead of their class abilities
[21:19]  Koi:	 do you know the bonus for rogue skill boost?
[21:19]  Koi:	 or we can go back to the human way
[21:19]  Koi:	 human skill boost
[21:19]  +CSIStormreach:	 Same thing
[21:19]  +CSIStormreach:	 rogue skill boost is +2
[21:19]  +CSIStormreach:	 uyou can get +3 at level 4
[21:19]  Koi:	 charisma boost everytime you use human skill boost
[21:19]  +CSIStormreach:	 Ok, so the rogue who goes completely against his class
[21:20]  +CSIStormreach:	 maxes his charisma
[21:20]  +CSIStormreach:	 uses cha boost and skill boost
[21:20]  +CSIStormreach:	 at level 4
[21:20]  peri:	 your advice isn't very good koi
[21:20]  +CSIStormreach:	 has an 8% chance to cast UMD
[21:20]  +CSIStormreach:	 oops
[21:20]  Koi:	 14 base charisma
[21:20]  +CSIStormreach:	 to scroll whip knock
[21:20]  Koi:	 assume no charisma stat item
[21:20]  +CSIStormreach:	 that is just over a 1 in 20 chance
[21:20]  Koi:	 it doesn't cost much for 100 scrolls of knock
[21:21]  +CSIStormreach:	 You are right, you are more then welcome to cast it 20-40 times hoping it goes off on a character you completely gimped just to be able to use it
[21:21]  +CSIStormreach:	 I hope your cha makes you feel good when you are hitting for 1d6-8  damage :P
[21:21]  Koi:	 when you have charisma 14 and a bonus to charisma for the skill boost and using the skill boost for haggle while puchasing
[21:21]  +CSIStormreach:	 14 CHA is only +2 to UMD
[21:21]  Koi:	 also +2 to haggle
[21:22]  Koi:	 which adds to my last point
[21:22]  +CSIStormreach:	 +2 to "ANY" Charisma skill
[21:22]  +CSIStormreach:	 You aren't getting it
[21:22]  Koi:	 and how much math in the human skill boost?
[21:22]  +CSIStormreach:	 You just had to "make a cahracter onyl good at UMD" to get a les then 10% chance to use it
[21:22]  +CSIStormreach:	 +2
[21:22]  Koi:	 no
[21:22]  +CSIStormreach:	 Oops, +3 at level 4.
[21:22]  Koi:	 this is me sayiing how the character is made
[21:23]  Koi:	 just to make it tougher
[21:23]  Koi:	 let's do all 3 points in charisma stat boost and a +1 charisma item now
[21:23]  +CSIStormreach:	 Ok, give me your class, cha skill and skill boost score in total
[21:23]  +CSIStormreach:	 and we will do the math
[21:23]  +CSIStormreach:	 with 14 base cha?
[21:23]  +CSIStormreach:	 The +1 cha does nothing for you
[21:23]  +CSIStormreach:	 It would have to be +2
[21:23]  +CSIStormreach:	 (even numbers_
[21:23]  Koi:	 so that sould give us an effective charisma of 18
[21:24]  +CSIStormreach:	 That math fails me...
[21:24]  Koi:	 plus the skill boost modifier
[21:24]  Koi:	 assume not using UMD +3 feat yet
[21:24]  +CSIStormreach:	 Huh
[21:24]  Koi:	 until we make this just a fighter
[21:24]  +CSIStormreach:	 +3 Skill boost is not a +3 CHA boost
[21:24]  Koi:	 with the human extra feat: UMD
[21:24]  +CSIStormreach:	 CHA 14 = +2,  Skill boost = +3
[21:24]  +CSIStormreach:	 That is +5 UMD
[21:25]  +CSIStormreach:	 5% chance of using Scroll.
[21:25]  +CSIStormreach:	 Add in your UMD +3 feat.
[21:25]  +CSIStormreach:	 that is +8 total
[21:25]  Koi:	 you are still missing the other human enhancements
[21:25]  +CSIStormreach:	 Oh?
[21:25]  Koi:	 the +3 to charisma and the +1 charisma cloak or whatever item
[21:25]  +CSIStormreach:	 Wow...
[21:26]  +CSIStormreach:	 What gives you +3 to CHA?
[21:26]  Koi:	 and the +4 to all skills for using the boost
[21:26]  +CSIStormreach:	 I think you need to look at the enhancements...
[21:26]  Koi:	 because next up is pure fighter that can UMD in korthos
[21:26]  +CSIStormreach:	 Get me some maths :)
[21:26]  +CSIStormreach:	 I am going to go stream now
[21:26]  +CSIStormreach:	 When you have this "math and build" ready, let me know
[21:27]  +CSIStormreach:	 Just know that the DC is 24
[21:27]  Koi:	 oh i forgot it was your stream day
[21:27]  Koi:	 doesn't seem like a Friday
[21:27]  +CSIStormreach:	 I know... It feels like a Monday.
[21:28]  Koi:	 this is why i try not to talk about specifics of builds with people
[21:28]  +CSIStormreach:	 No one begrudges you for not understaniding the math.
[21:28]  +CSIStormreach:	 You just try to pass on miss information as fact to people looking for help
[21:33]  Koi:	 i have humans on 9 servers unless there was a Lamannia wipe
[21:33]  Koi:	 but these days nobody is making new level 1 characters
[21:34]  Koi:	 all the enhancements i mentioned can be taken at level 1
[21:34]  Koi:	 at the same time
[21:34]  Koi:	 without banking action points
[21:35]  Koi:	 and with 3 more skill points another +1 to charisma
[21:35]  +CSIStormreach:	 As I said, do the math, get me your best "UMD" value.
[21:35]  Koi:	 which can replace that +1 charisma cloak
[21:37]  Koi:	 the best UMD for me right now is with my fully upgraded trinket from crystal cove
[21:37]  Koi:	 with the insight bonus to UMD skills
[21:37]  +CSIStormreach:	 I meant on your less then level 5 character who can use knock scrolls
[21:37]  Koi:	 stacks with persuasion item's +3 charisma skills
[21:38]  Koi:	 he is level 9 now so can't count him anymore
[21:38]  Koi:	 and it's a level 20 trinket probably
[21:38]  Koi:	 but masterful craftsmanship makes persuasion item level 1
[21:39]  Koi:	 also makes a charisma +2 item level 2
[21:40]  Koi:	 so that item makes 20 charisma for our fighter with the UMD +3 feat
[21:40]  Koi:	 during the skill boost
[21:40]  Koi:	 not counting the +4 action boost bonus to all skills
[21:41]  Koi:	 and this is our level 2 fighter