Session Start: Thu Sep 14 00:16:53 2017
Session Ident: #srb2staff
* Now talking in #srb2staff
* Topic is 'The srb2mb staff channel, for everything and ANYTHING staff/mb/4chan related. | 10/chanserv unban #srb2staff | 7Staff Lounge: http://tinyurl.com/27wckcv | 4How many people are actually looking at the rules?: http://bit.ly/13dn8H+ | !Google hostnames for tor use, check for ri.ri.cox especially!'
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<Blade> hi, anything else on the discord front?
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<@Rob> I *could* mod such a thing but my level of activity would be sporadic
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<@MascaraSnake> Context?
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<@Rob> Oh.  Apparently making an official discord
<@Rob> Except with a proper moderation team and with only a few channels rather than, like, 20
<toaster> What
<toaster> That's... weird news
<toaster> but appreciated
<toaster> Speedwagon's place is neat but has too bad a reputation to serve as the sole developer-involved public place
<@Rob> Well It's mostly that the place doesn't have an actual set system for establishing a community
<@Rob> It's mostly just "We'll deal with individual problems as they arise"
<@Rob> And the idea of banning someone for being noncontributive and disruptive without specifically breaking rules never happens.
<@Rob> There is at least one case for this I know of That's still a problem
<toaster> fair enough
<@Rob> Basically It's not moderated like an actual chat room
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<toaster> That does make sense.
<@MascaraSnake> Wait, so is this something that's actually happening or just something that's being discussed?
<toaster> Where did this discussion come from, anyways?
<toaster> What set it off?
<FF|AtWork> Mostly a lack of activity in #'fun and general distaste for the community Discord. As far as I know, it's just something that we were talking about, but it seemed like it could actually turn into something real.
<FF|AtWork> Started last night in #'dev, then moved here to keep #'dev on topic.
<toaster> Alright, thanks.
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<@Rob> So, Mystic, are we actually moving to Discord?
<@Mystic> I don't think we should move dev to discord, but I do think it would probably be a good idea for us to set up an official SRB2 discord
<@Mystic> because the current one is awful quite a lot of the time
<@MonsterIestyn> hold on what?
<@MonsterIestyn> no, no moving to discord
<@MonsterIestyn> but official SRB2 discord isn't a bad idea of course
<@Rob> I actually wonder why we wouldn't move dev to discord?
<@MonsterIestyn> we've gone over this before I think
<@Mystic> well, there's a lot of concerns I have about that, primarily security-related
<@Mystic> I know how IRC works. I really don't know how Discord functions
<@MonsterIestyn> we don't know discord well enough to know how secure it is
<@Rob> That's not entirely unfair.
<@Mystic> I'm perfectly okay making penis jokes there, but I'm not sure I want to put our secrets there
<@Rob> I feel like the proper answer is to figure out how it does work
<@MonsterIestyn> also so I'm hearing, Discord is all big server thing right?
<@MonsterIestyn> so if it goes down that means it ALL goes down
<@Rob> Sorta.  Think of it as a big server where you can store smaller servers
<@Rob> Same with IRC I'd point out
<FF|AtWork> Think of it like one giant centralized IRC network, with voice chat and its own client.
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<@MonsterIestyn> I dunno I had the impression Discord was more vulnerable in that aspect
<@Mystic> it is, because it's centralized
<FF|AtWork> You create a server there, and then you can create whatever channels you want on that server.
<@MonsterIestyn> Discord is all on one site or server, IRC is fragmented into many servers  or something
<@Mystic> If someone DDoSes Rizon, Esper is unaffected
<@Rob> Oh, well in that regard, sure
<@MonsterIestyn> and if a server on Esper goes down, the others are usually still available
<@Mystic> but in terms of setting up a chat room for general use, that's not really a big deal
<@Rob> It's not like we couldn't also have a backup IRC channel
<@MonsterIestyn> of course
<toaster> hi
<@MonsterIestyn> hi
<toaster> i'm here again
<toaster> what did i miss
<@Rob> And it wouldn't necessarily need to be on Espernet
<@MonsterIestyn> apparently we're talking Discord
<toaster> why WOULDN'T we want it on espernet, rob
<toaster> we've been happily using it for years
<@MonsterIestyn> ^
<toaster> testdummy is a helpful modmin
<toaster> i assume we're talking a backup
<@MonsterIestyn> actually when I jumped in we appeared to be talking an official SRB2 Discord thing
<@Mystic> Basically there's been thought of making an official SRB2 Discord server
<toaster> no no i was here for some of the discussion
<@Rob> I'm just saying that if there are IRC networks that any of us frequent that aren't Esper
<toaster> i just missed a lot of stuff
<@Rob> I only use Esper for SRB2.
<@Rob> I actually use Rizon for other things
<@Mystic> because that's where the cool kids are
<@MonsterIestyn> I've never used any other IRC networks
<@Rob> I'm not saying we have to switch
<toaster> I only have two open irc servers
<toaster> Nightstar and Esper
<@Mystic> Honestly, if we were going to do another push for IRC, Esper is the best place for us to do so
<@Rob> I'm just saying if we're gonna have a backup place, it could be in a more convenient spot
<@Mystic> since we're already here and have a decent relationship with the administration
<@Rob> I don't actually object to Esper
<@MonsterIestyn> well, except for a few occasions where I decided to visit that old srb2 channel on a network we used to use for laughs
<@MonsterIestyn> for instance
<@Rob> But this is secondary to discord
<@Rob> Also, Mystic, I have to wonder if the security issue goes away if we have a separate dev server on Discord
<@Rob> I don't think It's smart to split dev from the community.
<@Mystic> Basically, right now Discord is super popular. We may want in on that trend
<@Mystic> I'm not suggesting shutting down #'fun, Rob
<@Rob> It's easier to bring in people who use the same communication medium.
<toaster> Idle thought: Discord is currently undergoing some drama with respect to restricting emoji-related features exclusively to paying "Discord Nitro" users. If they feel the need to restrict, they may be vulnerable financially.
<@Mystic> I'm saying that we are losing the audience for chat rooms
<@MonsterIestyn> Rob you keep making it sound like official Discord means no more official IRC
<@MonsterIestyn> or that we can't have both
<@MonsterIestyn> or something
<@Mystic> There are a couple things we could do, but I think the easiest is to make an official Discord
<@MonsterIestyn> maybe I'm just confused bleh
<@Mystic> Because that's where people are nowadays
<@Mystic> I'm not shuttering #'fun or anything
<toaster> Was there ever an official SRB2 Skype group?
<@MonsterIestyn> probably not
<@MonsterIestyn> it'd be a stupid idea to shut down 'fun
<@Mystic> I think we also should probably break down and put a web IRC client onto the main page
<FF|AtWork> As far as I know, there's only be IRC.
<toaster> I'm devil's advocating right now. I like Discord a lot, and I'd like to use it.
<toaster> But we have to be measured.
<@Mystic> There was never an official Skype group, no
<@MonsterIestyn> 'fun is not dead by any means
<@Rob> Mystic, to be quite honest
<@Mystic> that's because Skype was always cancer =P
<toaster> heh
<@Rob> I think if we made Discord, #'fun would be like #SRB2
<@Rob> I dunno if anyone here besides us even knows about that happening
<toaster> I'm vaguely aware.
<@MonsterIestyn> I vaguely heard about it looking around places
<@Mystic> Again, I think we're all aware that #'fun is dying.
<@MonsterIestyn> um how
<@Mystic> #'dev often has more activity than #'fun on a normal day
<@Mystic> User starvation, MonsterIestyn
<@MonsterIestyn> yesterday there was little activity in either channel
<@Mystic> Without new people, the channel dies
<@Mystic> That's how it works
<@MonsterIestyn> actually I'd say 'fun was more active all day yesterday
<toaster> I wasn't there, so :P
<@Mystic> I said "often"
<@MonsterIestyn> bleh
<@MonsterIestyn> I probably won't jump on the Discord much if ever at all
<@Mystic> Basically, I'm looking at reality. Our IRC channel is dying due to competition.
<@Mystic> There are multiple methods we could use to handle this
<@Mystic> but I think by far the easiest would be to set up our own Discord
<@Mystic> with blackjack and hookers, or something
<Blade> yeah, the irc is really quiet compared to a few years ago
<@MonsterIestyn> pfff Mystic
<@MonsterIestyn> frankly I've been worrying the SRB2 community is kind of dying altogether
<Blade> mafia bot channel for the discord!!
<@Mystic> The unofficial SRB2 Discord is massively active, MonsterIestyn
<@MonsterIestyn> the SRB2MB is certainly not that active these days either
<@Mystic> It's also cancer
<@MonsterIestyn> and I basically maintain the wiki on my own with occasional help from MascaraSnake these days
<Blade> the general srb2 part yeah sometimes
<Blade> but the other dev parts of it are ok
<Blade> well not "dev"
<Blade> you know what I mean
<toaster> There is a very, very active SRB2 contingent in the discord zone
<toaster> Which we have failed to cultivate
<@Mystic> Basically, I'm saying that if we want to get people interested in our stuff, we should go to where they are
<@Mystic> Right now, the in thing is Discord
<@Mystic> I don't know what the future holds, so I have no idea if Discord will still be around in 5 years
<@Mystic> but right now it seems like it's a safe bet for the short term to get people interested in our community again
<@MonsterIestyn> Discord has been up for a few years now so far, it may stick around for a while at least probably
<Blade> I wonder if part of the reason of the slow death is the game itself no longer directs you to the chats?
<@MonsterIestyn> blade, it hasn't done that since 2009
<Blade> back in MY day, we had Sonic himself telling us where to go!
<@Mystic> Blade, the real reason is because we now have competition
<Blade> yeah
<@Mystic> Four years ago, if you wanted a chat room for SRB2, you had one place to go
<@Mystic> That's no longer true
<@Mystic> We need to face the facts on that
<@MonsterIestyn> that said
<@MonsterIestyn> I have started to wonder whether I'm getting tired of the whole SRB2 thing altogether
<@Mystic> I can't really do anything about that here.
<@MonsterIestyn> but things like what will happen to the wiki come to mind
<@MonsterIestyn> who would take over if I disappeared :S
<@Mystic> but I do think we need to adjust our community setup or we're going to end up left behind
<@Rob> I am solidly pro discord at this point
<@Mystic> and I really don't want the only living SRB2 community to be that cancerous discord
<@Mystic> because I hate it
<@Rob> I may dig and see what security is like with it
<@Mystic> a lot
<Blade> I'd also suggest making it somewhat more lax than the irc has been known for or something?
<Blade> like not as much as the current one
<@Mystic> The IRC is honestly quite lax, Blade
<@Rob> IRC has been super lax
<@MonsterIestyn> the IRC is already lax as it is?
<@Mystic> What's going on is that these kids came in ten years ago, got banned for being utter shits, and then grew up and never came back
<@MonsterIestyn> luckily we haven't had to deal with any real stupidity for a while
<@Mystic> They remember the enforcement being strict because they were awful children
<@Mystic> but in reality at this point they'd get along just fine
<@Mystic> Another option that we could take if we want is to actually rebrand IRC and do a renewed push for it
<@Mystic> Reregister #srb2 on Esper and rebrand ourselves again
* MonsterIestyn is now known as Monster|Away
<@Monster|Away> brb
<@Mystic> It's not like the original one still exists
<toaster> I'm positive on Discord being something we should at least have our own of.
<@Mystic> Yes, I agree
<@Mystic> I'm saying this is something additional we could do
<toaster> Even if it's not, like, THE thing.
<toaster> Ahhh.
<Blade> perhaps
<Blade> I'd like to see the discord sooner rather than later
<FF|AtWork> I think I said this last night, but I don't think rebranding IRC would do much good, especially if people konw it's still the same guys in charge. I feel like a lot of people just don't want to bother with IRC any more, what with more mainstream options being available these days.
<@Mystic> As I said, I'm on board with setting up Discord as I'm quite aware of trends nowadays
<@Rob> I really suspect this will create an all in scenario, mystic
<@Mystic> I just don't think we should abandon IRC as it's a stable platform
<@Rob> Which I don't object to
<@Mystic> If it happens, it happens
<@Mystic> My main goal here is accepting reality and actually fixing our main problems
<@Mystic> As I said, I don't want that current SRB2 discord to be the main community going forward
<@Mystic> It's awful and run terribly
<Blade> one thing I was wondering
<Blade> you mentioned having mods from each "section" of the community or something. do you have ideas of people?
<@Mystic> That's part of the challenge. I really don't know what most of the cliques are
<@Mystic> There's Kart Krew and #'fun, but beyond that I really don't know
<Blade> Speedwagon or someone might be able to help with that
<toaster> No
<toaster> I discourage leaning into Speedwagon's input here primarily because he IS the current lead on the discord
<toaster> And Mystic isn't fond of that
<toaster> er
<Blade> not saying he should be a mod, but he is one of the better ones in the discord
<toaster> fond of how that's been running
<@Mystic> I don't mind having his input or anything
<@Mystic> but I'm definitely not fond of the way that place is run
<toaster> Alright, fair enough.
<toaster> I was just warning.
<toaster> He will be unhappy with news of this.
<Blade> I think boin might be interested too
<@Mystic> I WANT dissenting opinions on this type of thing
<Blade> actually, he was mentioning starting a new one a while back himself
<toaster> Sal has her own, 40-person server, and Speedwagon HATED the existence of that because it was "splitting the community"
<Blade> so that lava of all people isn't the founder
<toaster> oh wait
<toaster> no
<toaster> it's not her server, it's Sev's
<toaster> But she's got admin there and got drawn into that
<@Rob> Well here's the thing
<@Mystic> It's really important to plan this out so it works out for as many people as possible
<@Rob> We're gonna cannibalize any other discord with this
<toaster> Fair enough.
<@Rob> Like, that needs to be made clear up front
<@Mystic> The key to doing that is to actually do a good job so people want to be with us!
<Blade> should I get Speed in here?
<@Mystic> Sure
<Blade> he's a dev so it should be fine
<@Mystic> I don't see him online
<Blade> he doesn't come on irc much
<Blade> and he hides his status on discord
<@Mystic> I meant I didn't see him on discord either =P
<@Mystic> ahh
<Blade> messaging him there now
<Blade> he was active earlier
<Blade> he might be gone now though idk
<Blade> anyway as for krew
<Blade> I'd mention Chrome possibly?
<Blade> not sure if he'd want to though. idk
<Blade> Jeck and wolfy are pretty active krew members
<Blade> and sryder
<toaster> one person who has authority in speed's chat that i'd reccomend against giving in any hypothetical thingy is motorroach; i've interacted with multiple people who have vented to me about his conduct/sleight of administrative hand privately
<@Mystic> Yeah, I wasn't planning on making Motor a mod
<toaster> cool
<@Mystic> He doesn't have the temperment for it. I love his work on the game, but I don't want him in charge
<Blade> he's in school for the next 6 hours @speedwagon
<@Rob> Honestly I wouldn't just presume to add people from the discord into mod
<Blade> should I go ahead and mention the idea? he won't be on irc til then
<@Rob> A lot of them just aren't good at it
<@Mystic> That's fine, Blade
<Blade> not saying they should, but they do have input
<@Mystic> As I said, I don't like the way that place is run. I wasn't planning on keeping the mod team at all
* Monster|Away is now known as MonsterIestyn
<Blade> he's not a big fan of the idea
<Blade> lol
<@Mystic> So, now for the real question that is going to cause us all to in-fight horribly and murder each other
<Blade> as toaster figured
<@Mystic> What should the icon be? =P
<@Mystic> Doesn't surprise me
<Blade> Crawla
<Blade> Sonic life icon
<toaster> A Crawla is distinctively "us"
<toaster> but the Sonic is more generic
<toaster> also
<@Mystic> but which one? =P
<@MonsterIestyn> how big are icons normally
<toaster> 2.2 Blue crawla A2A8
<@Mystic> 128x128
<@MonsterIestyn> so like SRB2MB avatars
<@Mystic> yes, but they're rounded at the corners
<Blade> they're round though
<toaster> transparency is supported but we could also crop an in-game screenshot
<Blade> circles
<toaster> You should give discord a try, MI
<@Rob> It needs to be a Mario head
<toaster> >:o
<@Mystic> It's a circle when unselected, and a rounded square when selected, Blade
<Blade> lol never really payed attention to that
<Blade> it should be Omega!
<toaster> Keep in mind this is supposed to represent SRB2 :p
<toaster> It's the official rather than unofficial one
<@MonsterIestyn> I think Blade's joking lol :P
<toaster> :v
<toaster> Actually, you know what
<toaster> We could change the icon every time we do a newspost with reveals or something
<@Mystic> We could, but I think we should probably not
<@MonsterIestyn> toaster: honestly I feel too attached to IRC at this point
<@Mystic> use both, MonsterIestyn. I do
<toaster> Yeah, same
<@Mystic> I'm an old fashioned stick in the mud, too
<toaster> It's not like we're dropping it entirely.
<@Mystic> Discord is really nice for some things
<@MonsterIestyn> bleh
<Blade> I understand attachment. it's why I still use mibbit =P
<@MonsterIestyn> on the other hand as I've said before I'm getting tired of it all
* toaster pats MI
<toaster> You want to take a break? You're welcome to
<@MonsterIestyn> that might be dangerous toaster
<@Mystic> This is a volunteer project, MonsterIestyn
<@Mystic> I do things here because I enjoy it
<@MonsterIestyn> it might end up being a complete break altogether
<@Mystic> Not because of obligation
<toaster> Well, that's fair, MI
<@Mystic> If I wasn't enjoying myself anymore, I would leave
<toaster> If you don't want to come back, you shouldn't force it
<@MonsterIestyn> on the other hand I don't know what else I'd do with my time anymore
<@Mystic> You're welcome around here anytime
<toaster> Yeah.
<@Rob> It's completely up to you
<@Rob> There's no obligation in either direction.
<@MonsterIestyn> yeah I know it's a volunteer thing of course, that I can't forget
<@MonsterIestyn> I think I've burned myself out too much trying to be helpful though x_x
<FF|AtWork> Don't worry if you think things won't get done without you around. I know you mentioned the Wiki earlier. I know I can't say 100% for certain, but there always seems to be more people coming around when something needs to get done.
<@Mystic> Then take a break, MonsterIestyn
<toaster> I'll help the wiki!
<@Mystic> Meanwhile, I'm going to actually set this up instead of continuing to talk about it
<@Mystic> Placeholder icon, go!
<toaster> Want me to get a nice, high-quality Crawla?
<toaster> Also, Sal should totally be modmin.
<Blade> why DON'T we have a nice big crawla art
<@MonsterIestyn> Mystic: I've been thinking of it but I can't get myself to, eck
<Blade> like all the other characters
<toaster> (She's not got access to IRC r/n)
<@MonsterIestyn> anyway I need to brb again
* MonsterIestyn is now known as Monster|Away
<toaster> i've been idly chatting w nev btw
<toaster> is it alright for him to come in?
<@Mystic> yes
<toaster> cool
<@Mystic> Anyone on #'dev is fine in here
<Blade> staff includes dev
<@Mystic> Yes
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<toaster> Wellll
<toaster> I'm not really staff
<toaster> I actively avoid authority
<@Mystic> You are. You work on the game
<Blade> neither am I
<Blade> lol
<toaster> I kicked a kid for putting my avatar in a triggered meme
<toaster> So I'm not trustable with administrive abilities
<@Mystic> I'm not saying you should be in charge.
<@Mystic> but you're still staff
<toaster> Weh
<toaster> I don't call that staff, though
<Nev3r> what kind of magic staff are we talking about?
<toaster> Maybe it's a differing definition
<toaster> <Mystic> Anyone on #'dev is fine in here
<toaster> <Blade> staff includes dev
<toaster> <Mystic> Yes
<toaster> * Nev3r (Nev3r@181.red-176-86-66.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) has joined
<Blade> staff in a building is more than administative
<@Mystic> Blade has it
<toaster> fair nuff
<Blade> I mean buildings have janitors in their staffing =P
<@Mystic> That would be me :(
<Nev3r> staff in srb2's community was always more in the administrative side than anything IMO, but that's my perception
<@Mystic> Anyhow, how should I name this?
<FF|AtWork> That was my perception too until last night. But *shrugs*.
<@Mystic> Actually tempted to just go with "Sonic Robo Blast 2" fully written out
<@Rob> Well That's usually because the same people get involved in different roles, Nev3r
<@Rob> It just happens
<toaster> Mystic: I'd say do it
<toaster> You can rename your server later if you get cold feet
<@Rob> It's not a conscious effort to keep the staff all being the same people in each category
<toaster> Without kicking everyone out and starting a new one
<@Mystic> Yeah I know you can change all the settings later
<toaster> Alright, fair.
<@Rob> Sonic Robo Blast 2 Community Discord Server
<toaster> Do you want me to get a big picture of a crawla?
<@Rob> I know It's long but It's also crystal clear
<Nev3r> use the GFZ1 mountain
<@Mystic> I just put in a placeholder from AJ's collection of art
<@Mystic> I figure we can change that later
<@Rob> Also why the fuck does autocorrect capitalize the Is in It?
<Nev3r> https://dl.dropbox.com/s/l9yf4zalq9fzvzl/GFZICON.png
<@Rob> It's quite annoying
<@Rob> I like that one :p
<toaster> I don't want to use the GFZ1 mountain because
<Blade> ok so
<toaster> Another server used that previously
<Blade> Speed can't get on irc right now
<Blade> but he did give me a bit of a wall of text to relay
<toaster> oh no
<Blade> lol
<Blade> https://pastebin.com/22QAzGit
<@Mystic> lol yeah, MrMystery is toxic. The problem is that the unofficial discord is toxic in exactly the opposite way
<Nev3r> Did miru tell him that his server sucks too?
<@Mystic> #'fun has clique issues, but so does Skybase discord
<@Mystic> which is what I'm going to call it from now on
<Nev3r> I was actually expecting a guide about how to guide the new discord server
<Nev3r> but instead it's a wall of complaints
<Nev3r> directed towards Mystic apparently
<Blade> yeah
<@Mystic> Which just encourages me more
<@Mystic> and I'm not planning on making it run by #'fun's staff
<@Mystic> I'm planning on having it be run by as diverse a group as I can get
<Nev3r> I can help you out, I kick people as diversely as I can
<@Mystic> lol I know better than that, Nev3r ^_~
<Blade> I kinda see his issue about the kids part, somewhat
<@Mystic> That's why I'm obviously not the only person running it
<Blade> he does mention he'd like to see Rob or Boin over it
<Blade> lol
<Blade> though I agree that boin should be concidered
<@Mystic> https://discord.gg/kdZv33
<@Mystic> Boin is a great choice, yeah
<Blade> let's use fsonic's select pic instead
<@Rob> I don't object to doing it if you guys want me
<@Mystic> we can vote on an actual icon later
<@Mystic> Right now I want to check on the more important things, like proper setup
* Mystic_Pinged (~mystic@173-17-206-29.client.mchsi.com) has joined #srb2staff
<Mystic_Pinged> lol I BSODed
<Mystic_Pinged> Haven't seen that in a while
<@Rob> It's an omen
<@Rob> Clearly
* @Mystic (~mystic@173-17-206-29.client.mchsi.com) Quit (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Mystic_Pinged)))
* Mystic_Pinged is now known as Mystic
* ChanServ sets mode: +o Mystic
<Blade> who's Yavamar
<@Rob> I would also say that we please don't do the stupid thing that the unofficial server does and do a retro verification style thing
<@Rob> Fuck that noise
<FF|AtWork> Me
<@Mystic> wait, what?
<Blade> hm?
<@Rob> They have a channel where new people are forced to read the rules and then notice a moderator for approval
<@Rob> With some sort of message saying they read the rules
<@Mystic> ahh
<@Rob> That's quite outputting and obnoxious
<@Mystic> Yeah, that's not necessary
<Blade> btw I kinda want to steal the rules graphics the community discord uses
<Blade> I like using the title
<toaster> i figure we'd probably have to engineer our own visual identity
<toaster> if it weren't just text
<@Rob> We could just go with literal shit
<Blade> also
<Blade> perhaps an admin/mod only channel? for discussion on to ban or not to ban?
<@Mystic> right now I'm still sitting here figuring out the permissions
<@Rob> Give everyone total access.  That would be a fantastic experiment
<@Mystic> lol
<Blade> what are we, communists?
<@Mystic> I already know where that button is, actually =P
<Blade> Bernie wasn't elected =P
<Nev3r> funny guy
<Nev3r> to gulag you go
* Monster|Away is now known as MonsterIestyn
<@MonsterIestyn> oh good grief Speedwagon feels like THAT about things?
<@MonsterIestyn> honestly
<@MonsterIestyn> Roy isn't even that bad in general, he does say stupid stuff sometimes but I wouldn't say he's toix
<@MonsterIestyn> *toxic
<@Mystic> He's not. He's often a silly moron, but I'd never call him toxic
<Nev3r> is #srb2staff so interesting everyday?
<@MonsterIestyn> MrM I remember publicly told us he refused to play SRB2 again until we fixed ATZ or something like that
<@Mystic> No
<@Mystic> Before this it was probably completely idle for months
<@Mystic> MrM is quite toxic sometimes, I agree there
<@Mystic> He's just generally not bad enough to ban
<@MonsterIestyn> what I can also say on a related note
<@Mystic> Whereas several of the people on Skybase discord are totally bad enough to ban
<@MonsterIestyn> we have an increasing number of people staying away from SRB2/'fun/etc for either seemingly the most petty reasons or perhaps one or two bad experiences of things
<@MonsterIestyn> and I'm like, I'm here to play the game, not to play politics
<Nev3r> just the same guys with different nicknames
<@Mystic> Honestly, I think Speed is totally wrong on this. We have a large number of people staying away because it's inconvenient, not because of the administration
<@Mystic> I mean, we haven't actually banned someone in so long
<@MonsterIestyn> like a whole group of people decided 'fun was not caring enough to people who were in a bad way
<@MonsterIestyn> even though that's kind of not true I swear it isn't
<Nev3r> it isn't true, it's just the guys from skybase discord
<Nev3r> I've only read them complain about that
<Nev3r> and by the guys, I mean the vocal ones
<Nev3r> the ones with admin there
<@MonsterIestyn> not even skybase, I don't have ANYTHING to do with that
<Nev3r> they are literally the only ones who complained
<toaster> Can I make a request?
<toaster> The icon be Smiles' character select.
<toaster> I was looking for an opportunity to reveal it.
<@Mystic> I'm okay with that for now, but really we want a bigger icon
<@Mystic> Discord suggests 512x512 or higher
<@MonsterIestyn> if anything I could almost claim these people are possibly just as toxic as the people they claim are so
<Nev3r> https://dl.dropbox.com/s/98my9225vqigq04/srb20273.png
<Nev3r> try this
<@Mystic> pfft
<Nev3r> I dare you
<@MonsterIestyn> it's just so silly it annoys me
<@Mystic> I dare you to finish it and then I totallyw ill
<@MonsterIestyn> btw you guys do remember MascaraSnake is here
<Nev3r> FUCK
<Nev3r> WELL
<Nev3r> OKAY
<FF|AtWork> Yeah, this isn't dev.
<@MonsterIestyn> though I hear you already showed him the thing anyway
<@MonsterIestyn> or someone did, anyway
<Nev3r> oh so it's just him
<@Mystic> lol
<Nev3r> good
<FF|AtWork> Hi MascaraSnake, please keep our secrets :)
<Nev3r> I did
<@MonsterIestyn> so lol
<Nev3r> For some reason I felt like this was srb2fun
<Nev3r> and I was like
<Nev3r> gg
<@MonsterIestyn> lol
<@MonsterIestyn> just glad it was that and not certain other secrets as well lol
<Nev3r> although, I don't think he has seen such a progressed version of eggzilla
<Nev3r> w/e
<Nev3r> I'll be remaking it then
<Nev3r> (sorry for the derail, keep going)
<@MonsterIestyn> hah
* SeventhSentinel (~Jamus@2601:400:c000:9f50:9dcf:6347:844c:172b) has joined #srb2staff
<@MonsterIestyn> hi Sev
<Nev3r> You can try upscaling it using a filter, toaster
<SeventhSentinel> Hihi!!
<Nev3r> lanczos3 or something
<toaster> sev is the master of THZ
<toaster> nah i'll use waifu2x
<Nev3r> I bet there are better ones out there
<toaster> because smiles is my waifu
<SeventhSentinel> I heard we're making a Discjort and I want to help
<@Rob> Gaiz
<toaster> THZ being his own discord
<@Mystic> Great
<@Rob> This is staff not dev
<@Mystic> we know, Nev3r already felt stupid
<@MonsterIestyn> bit late Rob I've helped us get back on track :P
<@MonsterIestyn> damage control!
<SeventhSentinel> So, what have I missed?
<@Mystic> basically currently working on setup, SeventhSentinel
<@MonsterIestyn> these guys are trying to decide what icon to use
<Nev3r> read Speedwagon's relayed message to get an idea of what we're about to do
<toaster> :V
<Nev3r> he explains carefully every single step about how to setup a discord server
<Nev3r> we won't need your help, don't worry
<@Mystic> https://discord.gg/vrwZTU - SeventhSentinel, link as we're setting up
<@Mystic> Trying to write up clean rules currently
<Nev3r> I kinda want to bring this up
<Nev3r> wagon is probably not keeping this to himself, so he's likely talking about this in that server
<@Mystic> sorry, "that server" isn't specific
<@Rob> Actually he isn't
<Nev3r> skybase @Mystic
<@Mystic> ahh
<@Rob> He's not active at all there right now
<FF|AtWork> I think Blade said Speedwagon is at school right now. He just sent that pastebin earlier and that was it.
<@Mystic> He's apparently ranting in TehRealSalt's server, although I don't personally have access to that server to see it
<Nev3r> you're not missing anything in particular
<Nev3r> it's basically that pastebin all over again
<SeventhSentinel> https://pastebin.com/kUUUBCzy <-- THZ's rules and such in case it's relevant
<SeventhSentinel> It's based on #srb2fun's rules
<Nev3r> isn't that #srb2fun's rule ripoff
<@Mystic> Yeah, I was basing on the forum's rules =P
<Nev3r> dat coma
<@Mystic> I definitely like the merging of a few of the rules
<SeventhSentinel> THZ also has multiple tiers of staff
<@Mystic> I have things set to admin/mod, I just haven't set many permissions to users yet because we don't even have users yet =P
<SeventhSentinel> Noted.
<Nev3r> makes sense to make a dev room and a staff room
<Nev3r> IMO
<Nev3r> no more
<Nev3r> perhaps a judge room too
<@Rob> Actually, important question.  Is there a benefit to having multiple user roles, 7Sen?
<@Rob> Aside from obvious secret club type deals
<@Mystic> Admins can modify the server structure and settings
<@Mystic> Mods can't
<toaster> ^
<@MonsterIestyn> but yeah, I don't know whether I want to join the discord or not
<toaster> if we had a dev channel
<toaster> admins would be able to change permissions or etc
<@Mystic> Dev is staying on IRC currently. We may change that in the future, but not in the near future
<SeventhSentinel> THZ is small enough and well-mannered that the multiple tiers of staff have not yet come into play
<SeventhSentinel> So I couldn't tell you if it's been an advantage or not lol
<@Mystic> Yeah, I was just going off of the forum setup
<SeventhSentinel> However it is nice to have extra people to talk to regarding server decisions
<@Mystic> Overcomplexity isn't helpful. I know I want a decent amount of staff, as I said before
<@Rob> Agreed.
<@Mystic> I want every relevant clique represented
<@Mystic> because despite Speedwagon's protests, I DO actually care about the community and want to be inclusive
<@Mystic> At least, as inclusive as we can be
<Nev3r> being inclusive doesn't imply to tolerate flaming
<@MonsterIestyn> of course
<Nev3r> well, some don't seem to understand that
<SeventhSentinel> Speedweed just doesn't trust anyone to run a chatroom as far as I can tell; I see no reason to heed his protests
<@MonsterIestyn> ...Speedweed?
<toaster> speedwagon
<SeventhSentinel> wagonman
<@MonsterIestyn> I know you mean him but
<toaster> well
<toaster> Inazuma
<@Mystic> Yeah, I have very specifically put "flaming" on the list of banned things
<toaster> which is his new username on stuff
<@Mystic> and unlike skybase discord, all of these rules apply to the staff
<SeventhSentinel> Nice
<@MonsterIestyn> frankly I had the feeling Speedwagon has his own bad feeling regarding us which I believe is why he feels that way
<@MonsterIestyn> ur
<@MonsterIestyn> ...wait taht came out a bit redundant
<@MonsterIestyn> *that
<toaster> speedwagon does good work and has good intentions but i wouldn't call him a team player
<@MonsterIestyn> and I don't think it's helpful to go on about the fact he feels like that when others are saying he's not even active
<@Rob> This all said, I actively want him on the staff
<@Rob> Precisely because if what he did with discord
<@MonsterIestyn> effectively we're just talking about him behind his back which would only make him even more against the discord if he hears of it
<@Mystic> I'm not sure I do, Rob. He's narcasstic which causes problems down the line
<toaster> everything i've said about him i've said similar to his face
<@Mystic> I have no problem including him in the process. I'm trying to be inclusive.
<@Mystic> but I don't want to give power to people who will cause problems
<SeventhSentinel> I don't think he should be on the staff but it wouldn't be terrible if he was involved in the server creation to an extent
<@Mystic> I mean, he knows because we tried to include him on this discussion
<@MonsterIestyn> I get a little more depressed just seeing these sub-communities or ex-SRB2 community fragments talking about us as if we're the worst ever or something
<@MonsterIestyn> more depressed than the actual source of their hatred/disappointment/etc
<@Mystic> MonsterIestyn, as long as we have standards, no matter what they are, we're going to be nazis to someone
<@MonsterIestyn> I'm aware, I know one has to put their foot down
<@Mystic> well guess what, when we do that, we make someone mad
<@Mystic> over the years we've made a lot of people mad by doing that
<@MonsterIestyn> I'm not even talking skybase type people anyway again
<@MonsterIestyn> I'm talking those reasonable people who leave out of distaste, not the kids who were banned
<@Mystic> There are a subset of people that hate active moderation. I'm not one of them, but those people exist
<@MonsterIestyn> I'm aware
<@MonsterIestyn> I hardly call ours that active anyway
<@Mystic> You can't make everyone happy. The people that are happy with a completely-hands off approach and the people that are happy with very strict approaches won't be happy no matter what you select
<@MonsterIestyn> I'm not even asking to make everyone happy, I was mostly commenting on how I've heard bits of bobs of people who used to go to 'fun and they annoy me
<@MonsterIestyn> mostly because I used to go to some of their IRC channels at least
<@MonsterIestyn> before they themselves disappeared/moved to discord etc
<@MonsterIestyn> sorry maybe I'm just not in the best of moods today, it's probably not relevant to setting up a discord itself
<@Rob> Well that's one of those things that needs surrounding context
<@MonsterIestyn> what do you mean
<@Mystic> So on a punishment structure, I figure the easiest solution is to have a mute rank and use it along with bans at the mods discretion
<@Mystic> as it's really hard to handle a strict infraction kind of system on a chat room anyways
<@MonsterIestyn> on another note, I've noticed Alam_Squeeze hasn't appeared on IRC in a while
<@MonsterIestyn> a week now it seems
<@Rob> MI, I mean that people saying things here and there doesn't tell me what they're saying or how to gauge the validity of what they're saying
<@Rob> It's really easy for people to comment on things they don't like because they can describe their feelings pretty well.
<@Rob> What they can't do well is list if specifics and the why's behind what they feel
<toaster> Mystic: SeventhSentinel and Sal's THZ has a "#scream-cube"
<SeventhSentinel> Oh yes
<SeventhSentinel> Scream-cube is so good
<toaster> where people who are in time out can rant, or calm themselves down and explain themselves
<@MonsterIestyn> I meant this general snobbish attitude towards SRB2's community or SRB2 itself I've seen abouts
<toaster> naughty children get put into the scream cube to atone for their sins
<@Mystic> it's because I have standards, MonsterIestyn
<toaster> i've been in there once
<@Mystic> Actually, probably easiest to just give you permissions as I'm writing this up
<@Mystic> I trust you won't destroy my hour of work =P
<@MonsterIestyn> I keep saying it's not the moderation/nazi/dictatorship, it's the claim that we are toxic and are generally bad to new people
<@Mystic> well, we are, but not any worse than anywhere else on the internet
<@MonsterIestyn> which itself breeds its own brand of toxicity
<toaster> who gets the permissions
<@Mystic> sev
<toaster> ah cool
<@Mystic> You can have them too if you want
<toaster> nah thanks
<@Rob> People love to use "but new people!" In their rants
<@Rob> It's really easy to invoke without just cause
<SeventhSentinel> If you don't mind giving it to me then I'd love to have mod perms
<@Mystic> Keeping places open to newbies is a serious issue, no doubt. We aren't the best at that
<@MonsterIestyn> the toxicity of lol this group of people I used to hang out with, or lol their game is stupid and old anyway
<@Mystic> but the people who complain about it around here tend to be part of the problem
<toaster> Mystic: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/249925765423038464/357968848433184780/unknown.png
<@Mystic> They claim to want openness to newbies, but don't want to actually put forth the effort you really need to do so
<@Mystic> you have them, SeventhSentinel
<toaster> here's a 512*512 Smiles
<SeventhSentinel> Thanks!
<toaster> Give it a shot as the icon
<@Mystic> Seems a bit too small visually
<@Rob> Guys
<@Rob> SRB1 Sonic
<@Mystic> pfft
<@MonsterIestyn> so how exactly do we get attention to SRB2's Discord anyway
<@Mystic> After we're done with setup
<@MonsterIestyn> will there be a news post or something
<@Mystic> That's what I was planning, yeah
<@MonsterIestyn> okay then
<@MonsterIestyn> probably ought to be a quick wiki article about it too, but I don't know if I'll be the one to make it :V
<@Mystic> Doesn't really matter? =P
<@MonsterIestyn> I'd like our wiki not to fall out of date if we can help it
<@Mystic> I think it matters for modding, but not for this
<@MonsterIestyn> we had our IRC channel's rules on the wiki for ages, that's why this comes to mind
<TehRealSalt> [14:59:04] <SeventhSentinel> THZ is small enough and well-mannered that the multiple tiers of staff have not yet come into play <== yes, THZ's are basically the MB's, but with an extra one inbetween admin & mod that has more permissions to do discord-specific stuff like changing channel names
<@Mystic> Could I get some invites to these discords, anyhow? =P
<TehRealSalt> https://discord.gg/U4BvakF
<TehRealSalt> that's THZ
<@Mystic> lol that icon
<toaster> Rob: what's up with that icon
<toaster> it's not srb2 related or cute :c
<@Mystic> he's just being silly while we figure it out, obviously =P
<toaster> smiiiiles
<@MonsterIestyn> oh yeah Rob
<@MonsterIestyn> do you know why GitLab is so slow
<@MonsterIestyn> it gave me a 502 error just earlier
<toaster> that IS weird
<@MonsterIestyn> it's not the first time it's given me a 502 recently
<@Rob> Uh, That's bizaree
<@Rob> Bizarre*
<@MonsterIestyn> mind you, it's been slow for me ever since we switched to the newer GitLab
<@MonsterIestyn> though Steel said to me the other day it was slower recently
<toaster> MonsterIestyn: you should at least download discord, even if you decide not to use it
<@MonsterIestyn> what would be the point of downloading it if I don't use it though
<toaster> so you could see whether you liked it?
<toaster> and then you could uninstall it if you didn't
<FF|AtWork> There's a webapp as well, so you don't even have to download it.
<toaster> well, yeah, but MI didn't save his old account and i figure he doesn't like webapps
<@MonsterIestyn> my browsers on my Windows 7 comp weren't the happiest last I tried to go on Discord from one of them
<@MonsterIestyn> I forget which one
<toaster> yeah
<@MonsterIestyn> I didn't make an account as such, I just joined with my nick
<toaster> well, make an account and download the app
<toaster> please
<toaster> just to see what it's like
<toaster> can't knock it until you've tried it for real :P