.kissToday at 4:30 PM
Hey, Jet are you paying attention?
Seeing as how I haven't been removed yet, I'd like to occupy myself and those not immediately hooked in to the ongoing Nebula conflict with events again. Since Aoyagi doesn't really participate in competitive things and is largely there to accommodate new students (I was roleplaying with Saizo about becoming a substitute at Neonrock just the other day, and also RP'd with three people in regard to their starter Pokemon) I was wondering if you could increase my Event Account's lifetime rpp to 160+ so I can scale events from Student/Junior Trainer to Contender level.
.kissToday at 5:43 PM
.kissToday at 5:41 PM
watching her and another player watch the police vs team nebula
julius giving niggas the work :joy:
xande healing when he not supposed to be (from the looks of it)
NOToday at 5:42 PM
yeah that sounds like him
.kissToday at 5:42 PM
who @him
NOToday at 5:42 PM
xande
.kissToday at 5:43 PM
LOL
YUMIKO AND PASCAL MOVED CLOSER TO THE FIGHT
CUS THEY THOUGHT IT WAS GOING RIN'S WAY
AND THEN RIN LOST
NOToday at 5:43 PM
LOL
.kissToday at 5:43 PM
OH NOOOOOOOOO BRO
I admit, watching some of the Nebula fights is pretty entertaining.
Granted, from my perspective, this isn't how the usual Nebula affair goes down, and like, all the best Nebula players are in this.
JetnissToday at 5:59 PM
All of Nebula's little things are entertaining and this isn't just characteristic of the people in attendance. It's pretty much the entire team Nebula who move like this. That's why they see the attention they do.
Will put the ceiling on your char a little higher, but would prefer if you kept the EC character separate of the professor char form now on
.kissToday at 6:00 PM
I don't think most people would agree with that, but I've always thought Leo/Vito were pretty good.
Well actually, I can hop on an alt
and you can transfer all verbs to that one
and take the verbs from the Professor
Anyways, I'll try to be more open minded @Nebula.
JetnissToday at 6:00 PM
I know most people would not agree with that.
But that doesn't make it any less true.
.kissToday at 6:00 PM
If you say so, Jet.
JetnissToday at 6:01 PM
I say so.
I'm not going to pussy-foot around the topic and help feed the rumors otherwise.
.kissToday at 6:01 PM
So what about that time Salvatore logged off in the middle of a losing fight.
That whole first scenario when the police were getting together and everything surrounding it really colored my opinion of Nebula, and I guess it hasn't changed since then.
Because they had just formed a 5 man gank squad, and then when the whole city went to gank them they started acting really out of pocket about the whole affair.
I don't think it's just rumors, I think the irritation comes from a sort of double standard.
Things have improved since then though.
JetnissToday at 6:04 PM
Salvatore can do some dumb things, but the situations are almost always more complicated than that. I don't know what situation you're referring to right now-- because it's a vague "what about" situation; and rather than go through 21 questions trying to figure out what you're talking about, and if what you're talking about is even correct I'll instead bring up the last situation involving Salvatore-- which was the fight outside of Blackfist. Salvatore walked away from it without RP, and he left the entire situation though it kind of spawned around him.

If you look at that alone, you can say "fuck Salvatore" -- but when you look closer, you'll see that he left because he wasn't putting up wit hthe frustrating drama of the situation. He was there at the start, then there was a general consensus for him and Uther to step to the side so that battles were more organized at the time. Then as things got bigger and bigger, Salvatore was cut out of the fight and was told he had to wait 5 turns before he could join the fight that was literally right next to his fight with Uther, in a situation where he was there from the start. So after a couple sentences of arguing, he just decided to leave since he 'couldn't join'
.kissToday at 6:06 PM
I'm talking about when the police force was first getting together, before there were officers or at least, a lot of officers (before Uther/Euphie/Meli joined the force).
And everyone found Vito, Salvatore, and Jiar outside of Blackfist and decided to get them.
Also, I don't know how much closer I have to look, Jet, he literally said in paranthesis
( Fuck this, I'm not getting ganked/gangbanged ) and then logged out.
JetnissToday at 6:07 PM
I believe we're talking about the same situation.
.kissToday at 6:07 PM
Yeah, yeah, we are.
JetnissToday at 6:08 PM
Then that's how much closer you have to look.
I was there in that situatiion-- like on my character and IC.
Though I had to step away for some admin stuff at some point (aftet salv left)
.kissToday at 6:08 PM
What happened to Salvatore for that after he logged back in?
JetnissToday at 6:09 PM
And I didn't do anything about it because-- well, the entire arguument was dumb. And if they wanted to make him wait and consider him 'not there' then they equally give him room to leave.
Nothing. He didn't break any rules.
He didn't log out on a situation.
He didn't RP avoid.
.kissToday at 6:10 PM
Jet, that's crazy, he and his friends were being attacked with clear intent to apprehend them what do you mean he didn't RP avoid? Was he teleported to jail?
Was he at least teleported to jail?
JetnissToday at 6:11 PM
If you ask me my honest take on it-- one side wanted to keep their advantage and exclude their enemy's allies by pretending their enemy wasn't already in the scene. Thus they lost the opportunity to go after one of the people they wanted. Which honestly worked in their favor because had Salvator stayed, the entire army after Nebula would've gotten beat pretty badly
Considering Leo, Vito, and the others there held their own pretty well and almost won without him
So in the end, it all canceled each other out, and Salvatore was an asshole to his squad because he abandoned them
.kissToday at 6:12 PM
Are you busy rn?
JetnissToday at 6:12 PM
No he wasn't teleported to jail, and the "apprehension" side failed to apprehend anybody.
And again
The apprehension side
let him go
by cutting him otu of the RP
What don't you get
You can't try to EXCLUDE people from the RP, then turn around and try to pull rules on them like "WTF HOW DID YOU LEAVE, I  WAS HERE TO GET YOU"
Which sounds similar to the Jiar thing back i nthe Claydoll event-- where an extremely long pause delayed an interaction a long while, then Jiar said he's going to bed, everyone said 'okay', then afterwards there was a "uuh did he just non-rp leave?/rp avoid??"
he got permission to go, and the circumstances were already shit. You can't turn around and go "B-BUT WAIT"
The shittiness of the situation cancels itself out in the first place, then you can't renig on a pass you give someone.
That doesn't make the other person a bad person.
Or a bad player.
OR any of that.
They've been-- collectively, reasonable and cooperative and within the rules. And it's annoying when people try to act otherwise.
That said-- I may sound aggressive in my writing and I don't mean to come off hostile to you or anyone else. If I'm hostile, it's to the rumor mongering or the double standards/inconsistencies people take to OOC about IC situations.
.kissToday at 6:18 PM
I'm trying to figure out this EC thing so we can get it squared away sooner rather than later.

But the last things I'll say on this are;

1. Jiar started that situation. He initiated all of it, I didn't just attack him.
2. I feel like if I was mechanically enabled to handle things that pause would have been a lot less long.
3. I strongly feel that Claude should not have been as defenseless / as weak as he was and there was no way a Nebula grunt should have been able to kick his shit in like that.
In talking to a few other people about my shortcomings during that situation, they've made it apparent that - from their perspective, an EC shouldn't be getting ganked in the first place.

4. I don't know your relationship with Salvatore or anything, so I'm not attacking him personally; I'm just saying, me and several other people literally saw him type ( Fuck this. I'm not getting gangbanged ). Sure we can look for excuses after the fact, but the intention was pretty clear.
You're coming off as extremely hostile and overtly defensive, and I don't really want to go over it anymore.
I just want the ability to securely make events that can scale to any player rank, so, yeah.
If I need to log onto an Alt or move Aoyagi onto an alt, I can do that.
I'd rather just get it done sooner rather than later.
JetnissToday at 6:32 PM
1.
I didn't say that you just attacked him. And whoever started the situation is entirely irrelevant.
2.
That might be true, but I was there and assisted quickly. Granted had you been able to do it all yourself, and more experienced with our verbs and mechanics, you probably could've gotten most of it done in 20 minutes. But that level of experience comes with time, and that level of agency comes with time as well.   The following is more an explanation of why:
You guys are limited for layers of reasons, experience, trust, adaptability, oversight. You guys are given limits, to try and really push those limits and find what you can do within your means, and rely less on "having more." If I give you 100 bucks to throw a party, I really don't expect a 1000 dollar party, I expect that 100 bucks to be spent as frugally and smartly as possible to maximize results with less. That's where the creativity comes from.
3. ECs can get ganked. Nothing is stopping them from being ganked. Especially if they're border-line player characters. And I don't agree. Anyone who can kick his shit in should kick his shit in. And getting your shit kicked in by low level people doesn't diminish the event, it just adds to the story.
My take:
In a situation where-- had I been Claude, and got my shit kicked in by a no-named grunt. I wouldn't spend time thinking "Gah! I shoulddn't losing to this low level henchman." I might actually RP that as Claude, and handle it step by step because-- well it's the most organic RP. That kind of freedom lets the players warm up to the event and realize it's not some railroad situation where they're just checking boxes off in the roleplay. It's the difference from a fully rendered cinematic scene in a video game and an actual event playing out in front of you.  I respond to him, who responds to me, and the event grows with those interactiions.
.kissToday at 6:37 PM
Okay, but when you say Jiar can be excused because he was in a shitty situation, it doesn't parse for me, because he's the one who put himself in that situation. It also doesn't mean as much to me because I wanted to go to bed too. I wanted to log off shortly after entering the building, but I didn't, because I know the first thing that would have happened would be someone chirping about me on discord or in the Admin Helps, that I RP avoided. I'd already taken a beating from Nebula's 5 man gank squad the day prior, and I'd already tried to draw it out to its most organic conclusion, only to be trolled by Salvatore and then left to be killed by Jiar until Claude outsmarted him. I wasn't in the same frame of mind to do it again.

ANYWAY

I can't stress enough how much I don't fucking care about any of this as much as you seem to.
I've tried to get out of this conversation 4 times now, with this being the fourth.
I don't want another lecture.
Can we just do something that matters like handling these verbs so I can be on my way?
I absolutely hate talking about this.
If you have lingering resentments about the criticisms of Crimson that go on in General, please don't take them out on me; go and take up the issue with whoever is causing your mounting frustration. Because that's what this feels like, it feels like a lot of stuff meant for someone else being directed towards me.
And if I am the cause of your frustration, just strip me and kick me out of the Discord.
JetnissToday at 6:39 PM
 If Claude was meant to be something more than that, that should've been applied for. Every part of it. Whatever pokemon he uses, whatever suped up abilities. Whatever extra-playericular activity should be applied for and discussed. Because that stuff needs approval and shouldn't just be thrown around willy nilly. If he was supposed to be stronger than the average grunt (jiar probably wasn't average though),  then that should've been set from the jump as well. If the powers of those you would come across weren't adequately assessed yet, applying for it after experiencing it would be okay too.

Which leads me to think perhaps the idea of Claude getting his shit kicked in might feel like it ruins Claude. But had I been the one running Claude in that situation, I would probably take the shit-kicking, apply for an appropriate boost, and if I got cleared, RP growing and adapting from that experience, and in the case of Claude-- showing extreme malice to the guy who hurt my pride in the first place. Because by ruining my image and the feel of my EC, he pretty much just fucked with said character's pride big time. And by allowing that player to do that, it deepens the experience for them when I come back for them later, and deepens the experience for all those around.

But I digress. There was some miscommunication there. A lot even. An event of that caliber wasn't what was applied for and cleared, and the stuff associated with it wasn't either. So it's not like the only factor of the whole thing was that you lacked the verbage to make it all yourself. An event like that is exactly why event admins aren't giving that kind of verbage in the first place. It's an example of what we want to avoid with events-- from scale to repercussions to world consistency. Stuff like that down the line will be discussed at length.
.kissToday at 6:39 PM
I've offered to step down at least three different times now only to be greeted by a lecture as to why I'm wrong, even when I acknowledge I'm out of bounds, and I just really don't have the patience for anymore of it.
Man, I'm not clicking that spoiler.
Am I not getting the verbs and the boost today because if so that's fine I'll fuck off.
I'm not doing this anymore.
JetnissToday at 6:45 PM
4.
I don't consider any of what you said an attack on Salvatore. I took it as an example of a less savory Nebula player-- to which I disagree wit hthe idea that Nebula has unsavory players. But what you consider an "after the fact excuse" is literally not that. You say you saw "fuck this I'm not getting gangbanged" -- and you say that was the intention.
You are almost entirely wrong on that. The intention there was to remove himself from a shitty situation.

If we get into some big hectic 10 player fight, and I start excluding you from combat in a situation where EVERYTHING favors me, and I make it favor me more by excluding you-- you can either argue with me and try to re-include yourself, or you can separate yourself and not stress about it.  He chose to not stress about it. Yeah, he probably wrote "Im not getting gang banged"-- and when you break the situation down, whether it's after the fact or during the fact-- and again, I was literally there, watching, on the other side, and vaguely RPing toward Leo during this entire thing which I was in attendance for before most of the people showed up making it the 'gangbang' in question; it's a situation he was involved with.

Then he got OOCly kicked out of the situation

He could sit there and argue to get involved in a big handicap fight to his detriment, and he chose not to.

If I put myself in his shoes, I can understand his mindset on the situation like: "Okay, they're going to make me wait 5 turns before I can help the guy I was literally standing beside the entire time? So they sweep his team, then 5v1 me? Fuck this, if I can't join then I'm just leaving. Why would I get gangbanged? Why stress myself"
.kissToday at 6:46 PM
I don't care.
I don't want to talk about it anymore.
I just want my verbs and my boost. I've said it already. If you're too busy to hand them out, cool.
JetnissToday at 6:50 PM
Look. I don't have resentment about any criticisms, I don't have any resentments with you. You're not getting those things right now. You'll get those things when you read all this stuff and you're ready to have conversations about these things.

If it's too much, or too annoying or whatever, or if it bothers you. Whatever, that's fine. But these are things you need to be mindful of and you need to understand as a member of the staff. If you don't want to be staff, that's fine too, then all I can do is ask that whenever you cool off you read this stuff anyways because it's important. It's not lectures for the sake of lectures. Hell, they weren't even written to be lectures. They're rebuttals to the things you say, and if I find need to elaborate on it, it's because I find something problematic in what you're saying or how you're thinking.

Yes, I can type a lot, but I'm trying to be as clear as possible as I explain things. And that's all these is to it.
And to elaborate further on the last post about Jiar, read whenever you feel like reading it, if ever:

 I don't think you get what I mean when I said 'shitty situation' -- He didn't put himself in a situation where had to wait 4 hours for an EC to roll on him. He put himself in a simple situation, a situation that you walked in on.The situation was fine. When you paused it to make an EC, it became a weird situation. And when that process took around 2 hours to advance 1 RP post, it became a shitty situation.  You may have wanted to go to bed as well, but if you had just said that I'm sure you guys could've come to a quick conclusion. It was shitty for everyone, and Jiar in particular wasn't given a personal pass on it because it was shitty in some other way. Anyone who would want to leave from all that, after it took so long, I would let them. Because it took so long. For various reasons. And I want to be very clear, none of those reasons I'm holding against you in particular. Nothing I'm trying to rag on you for either, just something I need you to be aware of so we can cut down on it in the future.