DoitsudereToday at 5:33 PM
Ah, you accepted. There really needs to be a notification for this type of thing.
So, uh... hi.
JennyToday at 5:34 PM
Hey
Good start lol
(sorry if I'm a tad weird, this is understandably awkward)
DoitsudereToday at 5:34 PM
Oh god you have no idea, look listen
I have some things to say. I'm not being mean, or trying to upset you, I just.. need to get a few things off my chest.
JennyToday at 5:35 PM
TBH at this point I'm just convinced I deserve whatever I get so
Fire away
DoitsudereToday at 5:35 PM
sighs.
Look. I get it. I get why you wanted to send that apology but
It
how do I put this
JennyToday at 5:36 PM
Didn't help, possibly made things worse
DoitsudereToday at 5:36 PM
Thank you, yes!
It upset basically everyone because it wasn't really apologetic, per se. As much as you were probably like, all, "I gotta put everything on the table"
"I'm really sorry about what i did, but your response made me want to kill myself"
No
you don't do that. You don't do that.
I'm paraphrasing obviously, but you get the point.
JennyToday at 5:39 PM
I get I'm not in the best position but I have a couple of things to say in my defense on that front
1. I wrote that with zero revisions
It was just me... getting everything out
Because I knew if I did revise it
It would never be sent
I would just keep polishing it up until I was like "oh, this is perfect, they'll definitely forgive me now!"
DoitsudereToday at 5:39 PM
that's honestly a you problem tbh
but go on
JennyToday at 5:41 PM
2 is... kinda tied to that but "you guys are to blame too for making me want to kill myself" is not what I meant to convey in the slightest
I felt like hiding the fact that I was considering that was kind of being dishonest
That said I understand how it would come off that way
So more of a clarification on that front I guess
DoitsudereToday at 5:41 PM
okay.
lemme just break down this apology, arright
DoitsudereToday at 5:49 PM
1) while i understand that you feel this wasn't entirely your fault, or at least did at the time, that isn't something you bring up during the apology. It kind of defeats the point of the apology, that you admit your fault in proceedings. Even if you aren't the sole one to blame, which being brutally honest is sort of debatable. the general consensus was that you were turning the blame back around onto them, which regardless of if that was your intention or not was a bad look.
2) The suicide thing... okay, I know what you did a while back. But it ties back into that whole not a good look thing. "I nearly killed myself" is something you can talk about later, after the initial apology. And i needed these two days to calm down from two things; One, that you managed to seriously upset Mark with your apology. And I don't think he was even there for the original incident! Two: What the fuck did you tell me that for? I was mad, sure, but the reason why I said what I did was because if you don't change you'll do this again. And I'd rather not anyone else get hurt like my friends did. You basically guilt tripped me with your own fucking suicide, Garch. Friends don't do that. And yes, I was direct with you, but if you can't handle that? That's really not my problem. Lash was harsh, I was direct. There's a difference.
JennyToday at 5:51 PM
I have nothing to say to 1, you're right on that front and it was my fault for just sending it out immediately
That said, 2, here's the thing
When I said my parents were traumatic I meant traumatic
What I was trying to go for with bringing that up was not pretending "oh everything's okay between us, i'm totally comfortable with you" and trying to be as direct as possible so you could understand just how much I was hurt
So that way, you would know what to avoid
I was legitimately scared at the way you were approaching things
I understand I likely should have told you, but like I said, that was a serious trauma button for me
I understood the intention but I instinctively froze up and kind of... tuned out a bit I guess
And that's not something I can just turn off
DoitsudereToday at 5:56 PM
I might have been more gentle normally, but a few lines were crossed.
Maybe not with me personally, but a lot of people didn't deserve what happened.
Have you gone back and read what I said properly?
JennyToday at 5:56 PM
My account is slated for deletion
Can't
DoitsudereToday at 5:56 PM
God dammit.
JennyToday at 5:57 PM
Also TBH I'm not sure if I could effectively let it soak in after the initial panic
DoitsudereToday at 5:58 PM
I actually still have the conversation logged. I don't really wanna copy paste for the reasons you just gave... but...
Maybe I can try again.
Differently, this time.
JennyToday at 5:58 PM
Before that, I have a question
DoitsudereToday at 5:58 PM
Mm?
JennyToday at 5:59 PM
Do you intend on making up
If you don't think I'm welcome in the friend group anymore, just tell me now
I get it's the decision of Alice and Windy if they want to forgive me but I'd prefer to know that up front for perspective sake
I worded that badly
But I think the intention got across
DoitsudereToday at 6:00 PM
I'm not the one to do that, Garch.
You need to approach them, instead of keeping your distance like this. And that's only if you want a chance.
JennyToday at 6:01 PM
Well, TBH, hearing what you've said
I was planning on approaching them when I was fairly sure that things were settled
I've got Mel around to help with that
But this kind of fuels my doubts
Cause I don't want to go in too early when tensions are high
But this is kind of giving off the impression of "tensions will always be high"
DoitsudereToday at 6:02 PM
Time heals all wounds, but sometimes it scars.
I don't know if you can recover any kind of friendship with them, but it'd be big of you to face your fuckups and try.
Not right now. Especially not with Windy. Because...
If I said she showed me the private message you sent at the end of this horrible mess, I don't need to say any more than that right?
JennyToday at 6:04 PM
I figured she showed you and Alice
So
DoitsudereToday at 6:04 PM
She's done with you. Not gonna lie, your odds of repairing this are less than 100%
But even making the effort will help repair things a bit.
Even if a wound won't heal fully, you dress it anyway. or something.
JennyToday at 6:05 PM
I don't think she's completely done, anyway
Mel relayed me some stuff
DoitsudereToday at 6:06 PM
Oh, no. I think she understands that you weren't in a good place when you did that. But that hurt her. A lot.
And she was pissed. Not my place to tell you why.
JennyToday at 6:06 PM
Again, Mel kinda has me covered on that
DoitsudereToday at 6:07 PM
You're lucky I held off a day. You'd be getting a repeat performance if I didn't.
JennyToday at 6:08 PM
TBH like I said earlier
I deserve whatever I get
Actions have consequences
I don't think I really understood that until this
Cause every time I fucked up I was forgiven
DoitsudereToday at 6:09 PM
...
You know.
You should take a leaf out of Logical's book on this.
He pulled himself the fuck together when thrown out, and changed. Learned from what he'd done. Sat down and looked at himself. Thought about what he was doing.
No doubt he's told you this already, but it's something to consider. That being said... yes. Actions do have consequences. And  if you want my honest opinion, I'm not sure you're going to be able to come back. But... as long as you learn something from this, I think you'll be okay.
And I mean learn something.
If I hear there's been another Garch Used Explosion moment I'm not going to be happy with you, young woman.
JennyToday at 6:14 PM
It's too early to try anything on that front yet but I've at least made that as a promise to myself
Over the past day I've been working on a lot for self-improvement
My number one thought was finding a therapist
But I don't have the cash
DoitsudereToday at 6:15 PM
For some reason I thought you already had one. huh.
JennyToday at 6:15 PM
So I've kind of had to be my own therapist
And I at least figured out one of the problems
So there was that whole love thing blah blah I'm not gonna get into that cause it hurts talking about it too much
But my approach to those moments was always, after everything settled, "ok, well, things have calmed down, this gives me time to come up with a plan for the inevitable next freakout"
So I've kind of decided to turn that around and go for "there will be no next freakout"
Not 100% calm all the time of course
Don't wanna swing too far in the other direction
But venting can be healthy if done well
I... didn't do it well
But I'm going to from now on
DoitsudereToday at 6:18 PM
You didn't vent. You exploded from not venting and talking through your feelings, yeah.
JennyToday at 6:18 PM
I think you get what I'm trying to convey anyhow
DoitsudereToday at 6:20 PM
Yes. If you pretend everything is fine, a lot of people won't be able to look past that, including your friends. You need to let them know when you're not okay, and you need to ask for their help. It's how you defuse these bombs before they go off. And it helps you bond with people too, you know? People aren't 100% calm all the time anyway.
Kinda segueing into the point i made in our last conversation here bear with me
I understand you were hurting when you said this but friendship doesn't require evidence or anything like that because friendship is predicated on trust. People did care about you and tried to include you, and even windy and alice were trying.
people were extremely worried about you, garch
JennyToday at 6:24 PM
I was thinking about this as well
And the big issue I had was paranoia
I've always been kind of an easily anxious person
But I didn't realize how far that extended
I was... very frequently bothered with thoughts about my friends not actually liking me
And after seeing what I perceived as everyone showing how they really felt towards me the paranoia kind of took center stage
I'm NOT blaming them
Cause I understand now what was actually happening
But I identified that as one of my biggest problems
Admittedly, it's something that's very easy yet very difficult to get over
I guess like
The path is clear, actually going through it is hard
Just gotta tell myself "no, you are worth it, they care about you"
"just ask them"
"if you really doubt them, just... ask"
And I AM going to go back to the love thing cause it could happen with someone else and I don't wanna leave that unattended
Similar principle there
I'm not sure if I touched upon this, cause I think I only directly explained it to Alice and Windy
But Windy was, like... almost 100% my ideal person
And being trans I always have doubts about people loving me for who I actually am
Or... being able to love me at all really
So the paranoia came back a lot there in the form of "what if you never get over this or find anyone else"
And I acted like "oh the solution is to pray it goes away and pretend everything's fine or just cut yourself off" buuuut no
The solution is just
Tell myself it's okay and things will work
There are, what, 7 billion people on the planet
People always told me that, but I countered with "it's not enough"
Like
Just saying it to me isn't gonna help
But I think it did help
I just refused to say it to myself
I don't know this is getting a little more metaphorical than I'm intending
Point got across anyway
DoitsudereToday at 6:31 PM
no no i think i get it
JennyToday at 6:31 PM
I had more to add but I'm actually tearing up so gimme a second
... I actually forgot what I was going to add
Fuck
DoitsudereToday at 6:32 PM
Oh man that happens to me all the time.
JennyToday at 6:33 PM
Uh lemme read over and see if I remember
Oh yeah
Last big problem I noticed is my own fear of... problems
I mentioned this in the initial pastebin rant that started all this but I knew that people were getting tired of this and I was afraid
So I elected to just disappear before it happened again
So I didn't cause any problems
And... admittedly, this whole thing that happened reinforced my fear
Even now I still wonder, like, what if I had gotten to deleting my account that morning and hadn't seen anything
Would things have been better, maybe
I wrestled with that for a long time
But eventually I decided no, because I probably would not have done well with the isolation
I would have come back
And... nothing would have changed
This just would have happened again and I'd come up with something else that didn't actually fix anything
So I think that's one of the big reasons I'm afraid of contacting Alice and Windy
I mean, obviously, it makes sense to avoid doing it so soon
But I don't want to cause more problems
But through this talk I guess I've been looking at that on the side and I decided to look at it kinda "logically" I guess
Like
If I'm actually tactful and considerate
What is the worst that could happen
I get an angry rant or two, which I kind of deserve
That is... the biggest problem that could be caused here that I can think of
Without stretching
And even then
That's closure, in a sense
A sense of "you did all you could"
"now you know that it's time to move on."
And even then
There is still the chance of things getting better
So long as I handle the situation well, there is no downside to trying
And that applies back then too
All I had to do was try to tell someone
"hey, this is eating me up inside, what should I do"
DoitsudereToday at 6:39 PM
That indeed would have solved most of this
JennyToday at 6:39 PM
Too late now but
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it in reverse IDK
Learn from history to avoid repeating it and etc
DoitsudereToday at 6:40 PM
Something like that.
Sorry i've been quiet i just
thought it'd be better to listen for a bit
JennyToday at 6:40 PM
It's fine, I didn't expect much
I tried to go into this with as little expectations as possible due to the paranoia thing
Cause I was expecting a "you are not welcome to talk to us anymore, fuck off" and then an immediate block
But that didn't happen
DoitsudereToday at 6:41 PM
Not gonna lie, that's not far from what would have happened if i'd contacted you immediately
wasn't happy about that
wasn't happy at all
JennyToday at 6:41 PM
I don't think I would have taken that well either, a day off was for the best
Like as much as I talk big about change I acknowledge there are still things that could probably hurt me very badly
And yesterday I kind of had the mentality of "you know how to proceed! everything will be hunky-dory!" until I considered the whole actions have consequences bit
I've been... very flip-floppy these past few days before I settled on proper reasonings
DoitsudereToday at 6:44 PM
i'm not sure everything's gonna be hunky dory, yeah. but you're right. If you make the effort, and an honest effort at that, not just "well I tried"
it's better than nothing by a long shot
JennyToday at 6:44 PM
And I also decided to turn my "well i've been treated differently in the past" into kind of a positive light
On this subject I mean
So once when I was talking about my problems with Alice to Alice, she blew up at me with a rant that I've never truly forgiven her for
And... now I'm kind of on the giving end of that
Actually, that's not right
I wouldn't say I didn't truly forgive her
More the impact it left never really went away
Cause the important part is that I still forgave her
Granted I was heavily at fault too in that particular incident
But going off the level of trust
I thought my friendship with Alice was irrepairable because of how deep she cut, but it was fixed for the time being (until all this)
If that's anything to go by
Then I'd like to think positive on the potential result
I'm not saying, like "oh i forgave you for this i expect you to forgive me"
DoitsudereToday at 6:47 PM
You have to follow through with change. If you want this to be okay, you have to follow through on this. Because I think you've done the whole "talk about change and not change" rodeo before.
JennyToday at 6:48 PM
To an extent
Never as deep as this
I have never taken days to seriously identify what's troubling me in my life
And like I said I've made a promise to myself already to change
DoitsudereToday at 6:50 PM
And as I said with regards to Alice, that whole love thing really didn't help you. Your reaction to her was irrational, and frankly that rant she hit you with was in all probability deserved. She didn't deserve your animosity for having windy, you realise that now yeah?
JennyToday at 6:50 PM
That particular rant wasn't related to her and Windy exactly, actually
And like I said I was heavily at fault anyway
But yeah
DoitsudereToday at 6:51 PM
mind's a funny thing. even if thing aren't directly related
your actions can be coloured by underlying issues
underlying hostility can make you more hostile in your actions than you were intending to be
all that
stuff
JennyToday at 6:51 PM
Yeah, I came off as way more hostile than intended
At the time
This time too
I... tend to do that
Instinct-driven person, zero control for when things become impossible to keep in
But I already went over that
Certain level of calm and control involved for healthy change
DoitsudereToday at 6:55 PM
mm. I get that. I've been called up by a couple other friends for stuff so i'm a little time limited now but... just so you know. I'm probably a fool for thinking this way, but I like to have faith that people can change. not everyone would be quite so generous, but if you actually stick to this, i'm sure things will be okay in the end. Maybe not what they were, but.. okay.
JennyToday at 6:55 PM
I think we went over everything now
I've tried to be as upfront as possible throughout this so you can judge for yourself if I'm worth the time
Thank you for giving me another chance
And, again, sorry about everything
It won't happen again, I mean it
DoitsudereToday at 6:56 PM
And you better believe I'll hold you to that. See you around.
JennyToday at 6:56 PM
:thumbsup: