(5:56:26 PM) Nour Samy: What do you think of the high ehp one with sleipneirs ?
(5:56:32 PM) Nour Samy: That's a pretty nasty fleet comp.
(5:57:00 PM) xpredat0rz@fcon.us/354db7d9: Krios42
Assuming existing support is trained to 4, (5 in some cases such as core fitting, gunnery, drones etc), and with no implants and no remap, train time is approximately 140 days, mainly the training for the CS and medium arty.
(5:57:51 PM) Nour Samy: Sleipneirs for those that have/are willing to train with training for it generally encouraged, alongside lokis
(5:58:16 PM) Nour Samy: HFIs or canes for scrub lords
(5:58:16 PM) xpredat0rz@fcon.us/354db7d9: just point out 140 days of training for 1 ship is a stiff order
(5:58:37 PM) Nour Samy: That's assuming they're training from it from scractch though (core skills aside)
(5:59:05 PM) Nour Samy: I never even thought about command ships and i'm 73 days away
(5:59:48 PM) Nour Samy: Ofcourse its a lot to ask, not denying it, that's why the loki as an optimal alternative, sleipneirs being preffered more for their alpha and dps
(5:59:55 PM) Nour Samy: but there's no reason both can't work together ?
(6:00:08 PM) xpredat0rz@fcon.us/354db7d9: So we make it an alliance doctrine. The HFIs really dont fit. Proven in fights they dont have the tank. Just expensive loss mails at that point. Which means a new person has to train from scratch 140+ days for 1 doctrine. Just 1. We are looking at having 8 by the time we are done.
(6:00:42 PM) Nour Samy: I understand that, that's why suitable yet effective alternative
(6:00:59 PM) xpredat0rz@fcon.us/354db7d9: We will look into the lokis. Sleipners though is a hard sell.
(6:01:17 PM) Nour Samy: Sleipneirs for those that already have them, and anyone who wants to train into them, lokis for everyone else
(6:01:54 PM) Nour Samy: The massive brunt alpha of the sleipneir is worth having, they work well together on paper, sleipneir out ranging the loki a bit
(6:02:37 PM) Nour Samy: Kind of like legion/proteus fleets except this one is both alpha guns, just training time is the difference
(6:07:41 PM) xpredat0rz@fcon.us/354db7d9: btw yes drakes again. We will be changing them out soon but people should already have them skilled and they are cheap. hell there should be a fair amount already in 3V8 for those that couldnt be bothered to move them
(6:08:21 PM) Nour Samy: I'm just saying what's going to change, its just going to fail horribly again, except this time its a real war
(6:08:41 PM) Nour Samy: That's if you get people in fleets for them, so many people simply refuse to fly them anymore
(6:10:17 PM) xpredat0rz@fcon.us/354db7d9: The problem is noone used the ewar properly and fleets left without enough logi. These are issues we wont have on deployments as branch numbers are always shit. I think it will be suprising how well the drakes can work. Food for thought SMA's fit isnt as far off as ours and they dunked a rattle fleet with them
(6:10:45 PM) Nour Samy: They didn't though, they used them as bait to tackle the rattles and dropped supers :/
(6:10:59 PM) xpredat0rz@fcon.us/354db7d9: your point being.
(6:10:59 PM) Nour Samy: I used drakes in Provi vs ahacs
(6:11:04 PM) Nour Samy: I still have the video one sec
(6:11:12 PM) Nour Samy: Point being drakes didn't dunk rattles, supers did
(6:11:48 PM) Nour Samy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RxGKnxbxgI
(6:11:56 PM) Nour Samy: I know what drakes can do, its just their very niche
(6:12:03 PM) xpredat0rz@fcon.us/354db7d9: Drakes were never designed to be the I win button. They were designed for new snuffy to be able to hit poses brawl and hack shit. being the swiss army knife means they are great at anyone one thing.
(6:12:05 PM) Nour Samy: and I don't like the fit we're using
(6:13:29 PM) Nour Samy: Just watch that vfideo, we anihalted those provi AHACs
(6:13:44 PM) xpredat0rz@fcon.us/354db7d9: A few of the fights we had where we lost alot of drakes we still won the fight as a coalition. Its not always about being the heros directly. Sometimes being the punching bag means someone else can strategically with the fight
(6:14:15 PM) Nour Samy: That may be true, but so far that's been the majority of drake fleet engagments, that's a very huge hit to pilot morale
(6:14:19 PM) Nour Samy: and FCs too
(6:14:34 PM) xpredat0rz@fcon.us/354db7d9: part of learning is losing fleets.
(6:14:54 PM) Nour Samy: but not every fleet
(6:15:16 PM) Nour Samy: I don't recall one engagment were our drakes won, or even got a reasonable amount of kills
(6:15:24 PM) xpredat0rz@fcon.us/354db7d9: Vee said it best. It can take 1000 welps to make a FC.
(6:15:40 PM) Nour Samy: There needs to be victories too.
(6:17:00 PM) xpredat0rz@fcon.us/354db7d9: Thing is I have seen just as many welps with the canes and the feroxes as we have had with the drakes
(6:17:05 PM) xpredat0rz@fcon.us/354db7d9: BCs arent perfect
(6:17:22 PM) Nour Samy: They aren't, but with the canes we gave as good as we got
(6:17:26 PM) Nour Samy: Drakes... hit like wet noodles
(6:18:21 PM) Nour Samy: Canes are not an end all be all solution to everything, they're disposable, their designed to be as unwelpable as possible but its going to happen, its the point of the fleet. At the same time though it has more than sufficent capability to hit back, and hit back hard
(6:18:28 PM) Nour Samy: not to mention being much more manuvrable
(6:19:26 PM) Nour Samy: also have you seen the ewar drake Tori designed ?
(6:19:50 PM) Nour Samy: That's very useful (can fit heavy missiles for more dps) next to canes
(6:20:33 PM) Nour Samy: when we used them in that fight in lowsec, russian machs focused down the drakes because they were fucking with their logi pretty badly
(6:20:37 PM) Nour Samy: scan res damps
(6:24:47 PM) Nour Samy: Look, the drakes were a good initiative you meant well by them, i understand and appreciate that