Terrorism and Universal Suffrage

Veralis
http://www.newser.com/story/250935/parent-fatally-shot-after-taking-teacher-hostage.html
05:36:10 TumblingReverie
Veralis, that story is irrelevant.
05:36:16 TumblingReverie
Please stop getting high off violence.
05:36:37 Veralis
TumblingReverie, Shut up, lania.
05:36:54 TumblingReverie
I get that it's exhilarating to experience violence from afar, but you're killing your mind.
05:37:11 TumblingReverie
You're also spreading cancer in all the communities you visit.
05:42:44
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05:43:02 Hedrin
Good morning
05:43:33 TumblingReverie
Hedrin, what fake news have you brought us today?
05:44:19 TumblingReverie
The baboon troop is currently terrorizing itself over eight people who died yesterday.
05:44:35 TumblingReverie
Every day, about 100k humans die, for some reason these baboons are really concerned with a specific eight.
05:46:32 TumblingReverie
151,600 dead per day, apparently.
05:46:40 TumblingReverie
That's 6300 per hour.
05:46:53 TumblingReverie
But these 8, let's focus on those.
05:49:03 TumblingReverie
There's basically no statistically sound reason one can come up for a generalized American to care almost at all about these eight.
05:49:05 TumblingReverie
It's pure hysteria.
05:49:13 TumblingReverie
And this room plays a small part in that hysteria.
06:00:14
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06:00:22 Hedrin
Hello shoegazer
06:00:38 shoegazer
hi
06:00:51 GlaistigUaine
shoestastic
06:01:12 Hedrin
o'puck - so - essentially you want what ISIS wants - war between the west and all of Islam?
06:01:22 Hedrin
I kinda don't want what ISIS wants
06:01:27 shoegazer
gross, I don't want that
06:01:30 TumblingReverie
Anybody care to defend the thesis "It's meaningful to spend time on specific acts of terrorism?"
06:01:37 shoegazer
why do terrible people want terrible things all the time
06:01:47 shoegazer
TumblingReverie, no.
06:01:51 TumblingReverie
ISIS is irrelevant.
06:02:06 TumblingReverie
If you find yourself talking about ISIS, there is a reasonable chance you're propagandized.
06:02:25 TumblingReverie
Let's think about what the top-5 threats are to Americans.
06:02:31 TumblingReverie
Number one is probably obesity.
06:03:06 shoegazer
white dudes with guns?
06:03:11 TumblingReverie
The others seem hard to intuitively rank order, but here are the candidates:
06:03:16 TumblingReverie
2 - climate change
06:03:19 shoegazer
white dudes with guns?
06:03:27 shoegazer
eh climate change is a global threat.
06:03:35 Hedrin
Trump already escalated this idiot terrorist into being a ISIS operative.
06:03:38 shoegazer
Come up with country specific ones.
06:03:39 TumblingReverie
3 - Global economic collapses created by overconnected financial markets that are insufficiently regulated
06:03:43
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06:03:44 TumblingReverie
4 - the GOP
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06:03:53 TumblingReverie
5 - right-wing media
06:03:56 shoegazer
white dudes with guns--called it.
06:03:59 TumblingReverie
Those are my top-5 candidates
06:04:10 shoegazer
well, lani has never debated.
06:04:12 TumblingReverie
I would put white dudes with guns below all five of those
06:04:20 TumblingReverie
Maybe ~7th
06:04:36 shoegazer
but definitely way above "islamic terrorism"
06:04:36 TumblingReverie
Terrorism is probably not in the top 15
06:04:45 TumblingReverie
Terrorism is statistical noise
06:04:53 TumblingReverie
Well, Islamic terrorism
06:05:05 Hedrin
I bet more guys die during lapdances than die from terrorist attacks in the US.
06:05:05 shoegazer
I don't think `puck" style="color:#ca6835">o`puck lives in the US tho so he might not realize just how not-a-big-deal that is over here
06:05:24 TumblingReverie
`puck" style="color:#ca6835">o`puck can have all his thoughts dismissed
06:05:26 TumblingReverie
As his mind doesn't work
06:06:17 TumblingReverie
There is no scientific way to establish the relevance of those 8 dead for the generalized American
06:06:21 TumblingReverie
It's literal hysteria
06:06:26 TumblingReverie
I don't mean, 'Not the most important thing'
06:06:29 TumblingReverie
I literally mean hysteria
06:06:47 TumblingReverie
I live in Los Angeles
06:06:50 shoegazer
it isn't a big deal.
06:06:52 TumblingReverie
What could I possibly take from those 8 dead
06:06:52 shoegazer
and shouldn't be
06:06:57 TumblingReverie
Am I not going to live in urban areas?
06:07:03 TumblingReverie
Am I not going to go on bike trails?
06:07:15 TumblingReverie
What action or thought can I possibly have in response that will be productive
06:07:23 shoegazer
in the US? nah
06:07:33 TumblingReverie
And that has to be weighted for how seriously I'm taking obesity, driving, long-term health, stress, etc.
06:07:49 TumblingReverie
There's literally nothing to do with those 8 dead, for the generlized American
06:08:02 TumblingReverie
And there it is in the topic
06:08:18 TumblingReverie
It's just like, How much data do you need on how Americans are terrorizing themselves
06:08:28 TumblingReverie
And this room has above average intelligence Americans
06:08:30 TumblingReverie
If you can believe that
06:08:44 TumblingReverie
Have you learned nothing in the years since 2001
06:08:59 TumblingReverie
Are you going to spend the rest of your life freaking the fuck out every time 8 people die in a city of 18 million
06:09:06 TumblingReverie
2037. 8 die. Freak the fuck out.
06:09:11 TumblingReverie
2052. 8 die. Freak the fuck out
06:09:17 TumblingReverie
You're choosing to live your entire life this way -- be honest
06:09:31 TumblingReverie
You want to spend your entire life imaging there are bogeyman in rival tribes who are plotting to kill you
06:09:57 TumblingReverie
Because it's exhilarating and your tribalistic mind doesn't know how to exist otherwise
06:10:12 TumblingReverie
It's hysterical, moronic, and disgusting
06:10:41 shoegazer
I mean it is hysterical and moronic
06:10:56 TumblingReverie
Americans are basically the safest humans OF ALL TIME in regards to violence from foreigners
06:11:15 sexbee
citation needed
06:11:38 TumblingReverie
It's saying, I refuse to evolve further. Apes figured it out. I was born an ape, and I'll die an ape. I want to spend my life ensuring that life makes no further progress
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06:12:12 TumblingReverie
I say it is disgusting because when you really consider the roots and ramifications of this cognitive style, it's anathema to almost everything valuable
06:12:23 TumblingReverie
It's anathema to progress. To science. To human value.
06:12:32 TumblingReverie
If humans are valuable, why are they valuable? Because they're smarter than other animals?
06:12:43 TumblingReverie
Then why the fuck are you celebrating the stupidity of terrorizing yourself over nothing
06:12:48
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06:12:58 TumblingReverie
It's a literal rejection of human exceptionalism which is at the root of almost every human religion and philosophy
06:13:19 TumblingReverie
It's gloriously self-contradictory in a way to immediate render the believer excluded from civilization
06:14:09 shoegazer
yeah we are super safe from violence from foreigners so that's a pretty neat thing
06:14:24 TumblingReverie
There has got to be a mechanism in human psychology to explain this
06:14:29 TumblingReverie
It reminds me very strongly of superbugs
06:14:42 shoegazer
like the ppl that are most fearing it in the US, too, are the least likely ppl to experience it. ain't no one in rural america important enough for a terrorist attack.
06:14:45 TumblingReverie
It turns out, if you try to keep a space very clean, aka hospitals, you create very serious threats
06:14:58 TumblingReverie
If you accept some dirtiness, the bugs are far less dangerous
06:15:00 shoegazer
lol
06:15:07 shoegazer
17 years ago and somehow that's still relevant.
06:15:11 TumblingReverie
Maybe human psychology requires some level of threats to remain stable and calm
06:15:18 TumblingReverie
And when you remove the threats below that level the mind starts freaking out
06:15:26 TumblingReverie
It's like, I know those threats are here, but I don't see them
06:15:33 shoegazer
oddly enough, NYC doesn't live in constant terror of some shit that happened 17 years ago
06:15:34 TumblingReverie
So now there are these secret hidden threats out there your mind conjures into existence
06:15:42 shoegazer
so probably `puck" style="color:#ca6835">o`puck needs to stop.
06:15:50 sexbee
so in other words shoe, there's no need for a travel ban?
06:15:51 shoegazer
it seems like longer, really.
06:15:57 shoegazer
sexb: yes!
06:16:14 TumblingReverie
In the last couple of years I have really realized I should probably get involved in government
06:16:21 TumblingReverie
We just cannot afford to allow dumb people to lead our civilizations
06:16:32 TumblingReverie
It's bad for them, it's bad for their children, it's bad for non-humans, it's bad for me, it's bad for smart people
06:16:38 TumblingReverie
It's bad for everything that matters
06:16:42 shoegazer
yeah if you aren't american and weren't in the US in 2001 you can probably shut up about 9/11 forever
06:17:28 TumblingReverie
Within like 10 minutes, every channel I was in and all over social media and mass media this event was being discussed
06:17:35 TumblingReverie
The whole fucking internet was consumed in 10 minutes
06:17:36 shoegazer
you aren't American?
06:17:45 TumblingReverie
I don't know if you guys truly appreciate how bad our cultures are becoming
06:17:53 TumblingReverie
We're talking massive portions of our society that are entirely lost
06:18:08 TumblingReverie
We've got at minimum 30% of Americans who are nearly 100% malleable to whatever the message of the day is
06:18:17 TumblingReverie
Virtually zero critical thinking ability
06:18:28 TumblingReverie
Instantaneous, intense conspiracy theories over trivial events
06:18:31 sexbee
who is TumblingReverie talking to
06:19:17 TumblingReverie
I think the dream of universal society just won't work without intensely regulated media
06:19:28 TumblingReverie
And intensely regulating media is currently now allowed in our society
06:19:33 TumblingReverie
So we're stuck
06:19:57 TumblingReverie
It turns out a large portion of our species cannot really think for themselves. Mass media is just too powerful
06:20:05 shoegazer
`puck" style="color:#ca6835">o`puck, no, we aren't
06:20:21 shoegazer
especially because the impact to the US is tiny
06:21:28 shoegazer
and as a sane human in the world, no act of terrorism actually scares me. maybe one day I'll have a good reason but so far, nope.
06:21:52 TumblingReverie
Can you imagine somebody arguing we should embrace fear MORE THAN WE CURRENTLY DO
06:21:57 TumblingReverie
It's like, What level do you want?
06:22:03 TumblingReverie
Just constant shitting in our pants?
06:22:08 shoegazer
yeah, I can tell you've very bad at being mature about life.
06:22:09 TumblingReverie
Instant pogroms of all brown people
06:22:47 TumblingReverie
There's like 3500 years of human culture on how fear fucks up your brain
06:22:57 shoegazer
eh ppl in the US have more reason to fear other white ppl than brown people anyway.
06:23:00 TumblingReverie
The answer is almost always 'you need less fear in your life'
06:23:20 TumblingReverie
Buddhism has a central teaching to 'fear nothing'
06:23:29 TumblingReverie
Because whenever you are afraid, you are thinking poorly
06:23:35 TumblingReverie
And thinking poorly creates problems
06:23:38 TumblingReverie
Example
06:23:55 TumblingReverie
You invade unrelated countries to the attack on 9/11, leading to the rise of ISIS, which terrorizes you 15 years later
06:24:11 TumblingReverie
Which causes you to invade the wrong countries, leading to the rise of SYLI, which terrorizes you 15 years later
06:24:24 TumblingReverie
I mean, c'mon, these patterns aren't hard
06:25:27 TumblingReverie
I just don't see how we can continue to support universal suffrage, given minds like these
06:25:42 TumblingReverie
Climate change is about 10000x a greater threat than terrorism
06:25:59 TumblingReverie
You just can't let people terrorized by nonsense to have an equal say in our societies
06:26:02 TumblingReverie
I don't see the value in that