legend slayer

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Resource SM OU Viability Ranking Thread

    Thread starter Gary Start date Dec 24, 2016

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Riddikulusness
Riddikulusness
Aug 27, 2017
#2,601
Here are some of my thoughts on some recent noms.

A ---> A+: Agree
Lele is super good atm. Specs is a damn nuke that is capable of OHKO'ing basically everything that doesnt resist its STAB of choice, or it 2HKO/3HKO's the stuff that does resist. Celesteela is commonly running more Phys. Def nowadays, meaning it cant take its STABs as well (barring psyshock). Shed Shell is still a nice Stallbreaker capable of breaking most stall builds. Scarf is, as stated before, one of, if not the best revenge killer atm if you have mons other mons for Volc. It also runs through a lot of offense builds. Even more uncommon options like Z-Thunder is pretty good to blow through stuff like Celesteela. Its been seen pretty commonly too throughout this cycle of OLT as well. Raise this imo.

B+ ---> A-: Agree
This mon is so cool. Basically one mon can always safely come in on this, being Mega Scizor. Pretty much everything else will just crumble to this thing. Z-Freeze Shock pretty much kills something unless its a fat resist. Stuff like Ferrothorn and Chansey just straight up die. This mon crushes defensive cores like CelePex, VenuSteela, and Mew + Tang. Kyub + Koko is an insane offensive core, as Eterrain helps Kyub muscle through stuff like AV Mage, which eats earth power very well (but cant switch in forever due to no recovery). This thing is a monster, use it if you havent already.

B ---> B-: Unsure
Gallade is in a weird spot. Its still very good vs most balances, as it beats one of the best cores atm, being VenuSteelaPex. One of the main things it had going for it over Medicham, which can just as easily beat that core (and most balances in general), was that it can break through Mew a lot better, and with Mew dropping a tad in viability, Gallade may as well. Mew is still a good mon however, so I'm honestly not sure. Id love to hear more thoughts on this one.

B+ ---> A-: Agree
I think Scarf Nihilego summed up my thoughts on this pretty well. Imo, Mega Latias fits better in A-. Its incredible bulk and ability allow it to check the likes of offensive Lando, Keldeo, Koko, Pinsir, Lopunny, and Bulu. Its CM set makes it even harder to kill, and it can even set up on some mons with SE coverage. CM + Stored Power + Tbolt beats most balance cores easily, like the aforementioned VenuTran (i just realized i mention this a lot lmao). Reflect Type allows it to beat Tran 1v1 and allows it to escape Ttar's pursuit. It has been seen running a roost + 3 atks set too, which is nice because of its access to boltbeam + fire coverage. It has other support options like Defog, Twave, and roar all of which can find their way onto sets, as it is fat enough and fast enough to Defog well. Twave and roar lets it cripple/phaze stuff that may want to come in and set up or fire of hits, like Mega Ttar or Tapu Lele. Again, Id love to hear peoples thoughts on this, but in my opinion, it should rise.

A+ ---> A: Unsure (again)
Vertex summed up my thoughts perfectly (again). Volc is in a weird place atm. With shed pex everywhere, psych z is really all I feel like I should run. On paper, bug z seems good, but in reality, its not nearly as consistant. The drop in 101+ scarfers really helps volc tho, as many teams are opting to use Scarfers like lele or lando from what ive seen. Scarf Keldeo isnt that good imo, chomp has always been meh as a scarfer, scarf gren has dropped a bit from what ive seen (though im unsure on this), and Terrakion hasnt been a thing in a while. It seems like a lot of teams now are banking on not running into volc. Stuff like scarf Latios is still a thing tho, and Scarf nape has been rising a bit too. Im just not sure if this is enough to keep it A+. Ive always been a huge fan of this mon, so Id love to hear other thoughts on this, since I am truly split on this.

B- ---> C+ or lower
I truly havent seen regular zam do anything significant in any tour game or on the ladder in a while. Sash counter is cool, sure, but I dont think it should be B- along with stuff like mega camel, which is an insane balance breaker, or alola ninetales, which is the face of one of the most dominant playstyles. Drop it to C+ or lower imo.

No comment about hippo. I legit havent used one since Mega Meta was in the tier, so idk about it rising. It seems cool on paper, so I could see it rising, but I need to use it more to get a fair opinion. Thats all I got now, thanks for reading!

Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
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matthewc20090
matthewc20090
Aug 27, 2017
#2,602
gonna disagree with a gallade drop cause right now the meta is heavily in favor of balance and gallade destroys most of them including pex+celesteela+clef, venusaur varients, and the one ditto team by p2. inner focus is a sleeper ability too cause you can bop stuff like lop and gren without fearing a flinch from fake out/dark pulse. mega lati kind of helps it cause gallade can just sd up on it due to its solid spdef.

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Felixx
Felixx
Aug 27, 2017
#2,603
Tapu Lele: A to A+: Agree

Too be honest, I am not a big Lele fan, but I can't deny that the recent metagame trends have been in Lele's favour, the fact that Celes are now running phys def helps specs sets break past them with t-bolt on the switch and other members of the balance core like Toxapex, Tangrowth, Mantine and Mega Venu get destroyed by psychic, psychic terrain also messes with the growing in popularity Scizor and his techician bullet punch, this helps teammates like Kyurem-B and Diancie, Diancie in particular also benifits from a psychic terrain boosted psychic/psyshock which lets it break past a common check in Mega Venu. Scarf Lele is back since Dragonite>Salamence (particularly because of the resurgence of birdspam), and also because of Volc's low usage allowing for slower scarfers like Lele, Lando and Excadrill. Stallbreaker Lele is and has always been very good for its ability to break past spl and double defog stalls which are ever popular.

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine in Psychic Terrain: 222-262 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth in Psychic Terrain: 240-283 (59.4 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Celesteela in Psychic Terrain: 164-193 (41.2 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (you actually don't even need to predict)

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6ft Torbjorn
formerly JoycapJoshST
Aug 27, 2017
#2,604
zygardeBlue&Black.png

Zygarde: A+ -> S​

Yep, I'm bring this back up.

Now, why? You may all be asking - and that is an excellent question, and at the same time the answer should be obvious. As well as meta trends that I'll bring up in a second, it REALLY doesn't take a hell of a lot for this thing to quickly become absolutely retarded during basically any game it takes part in. Let us begin:

1) 1000A Spam, and the rise in Toxic Spikes:

As for 1000A itself, I shouldn't have to go into too much detail here. The fact that it's Ground STAB that can bypass it's main immunity is what makes it frankly brainless, and basically forces the use of either Tangrowth/Bulu/Mew onto literally every possible team. Do you guys know how much of a bloody problem that is? No, seriously - the amount of times I've asked for directions on a team I've been building, only to be interrogated on 'where's your Zygarde switchin?' could probably pay for the fuel on a trip to Tokyo. I'm not exaggerating, it's been too many times to count...

It also raises the fact that all 3 get bopped by Toxic/Tspikes (another point I'll get to), Tang and Mew are too passive for offense, and Bulu - while fun to use - doesn't really have a game plan a good chunk of the time beyond 'click Wood Hammer, ask questions later'. Nevermind the fact that this thing can run about 7 sets and a jar of Branston PickleTM* . making it extremely unpredictable (ofc we knew this, but it'll come back later).

As for the problem of Tspikes (something that has once again through the likes of Toxapex (which has not long since risen) and others) - this is where the 1000A knockdown effect comes into play. As common answers that CAN come in on it (bar, say, MVenu) end up poisoned, which (no shit, edgeworth) having your Zygarde switchins crippled by Toxic status puts you in a horrific position. 'But lack of immediate power' you might say, and 'it's easily checked' you might add. Well woop-dee-bloody do! Try saying that when you're best answers lose to chip, and the fact that it can still holepunch things coming in; potentially knock something down; and then sod off for another 12 turns! Rise of Mega Latias? Well that's neither here nor there when A) you're another Dragon type, and B) you potentially end up knocked down.

Poison types? You're a ground type, which leaves TS's best removers no intensive to come or stay in. Oh, and most common defoggers (bar, say, MSciz) lose to 1000A spam. Who knew?

2) The abundance of sets it can run, unpredictability, and constraints on teambuilding:

I'm just going come out and say that the many sets it can run is, without a doubt in my mind, able to fill perfectly into any functional offensive team. CB is stupidly splashable, with coverage such as Iron Tail and Stone Edge to make things like Clefable; Volcarona and Tornadus-T think twice about settling in and catch them on the switch. The two mons that don't care about Tspikes and 1000A spam, those being (in my eyes, at least) MSciz and MVenu, lose HARD to SubDD or SubCoil sets due to their generally passive nature, and not being the largest offensive presence compared to others (in spite of their bulk). And don't even get me STARTED on DD, my bias I've been trying to keep at bay this entire post. Not to mention the different kinds of Z-moves it can run - and Dragonium being able to bust past some of, if not all, of it's conventional checks.

As for constraints on teambuilding - well, I've already mentioned how it essentially forces one of a small handful of mons onto basically EVERY playstyle. But of course there's the threat of Dugtrio we have to think about, which puts it's OWN constraints on teambuilding, and makes good Zygarde checks such as Mega Diancie less of a proposition. I'm not saying expect both on the same team, but the choke hold both force legitimately makes OU unfun for me atm.

All of this considered, I think Zygarde is more then deserving of S rank status. If this isn't fulfilled soon, then in the words of Yahtzee:
"Please tell us how you manage to breathe on Mars."

That's all I have to say for now. I'll think about the discussion slate another time, as those are things I'm thinking of using, but haven't gotten round to.

Until later
Josh.