Emigration, Canada, Christianity 'love'

euphonyaway
I don't think people spend enough time being thankful the nightmare of Modernity came to an end
euphonyaway
At least in the West
euphonyaway
Been focusing my research lately on the late nineteenth century central european concepts of sexuality, gender and race, a lot of it is a great big ball of yikes
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euphonyaway
Zapato?
innit
euphonyaway: Have you spent much time in the United States?
innit
If so, how has the culture felt compared to Canadian culture?
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zapt
the usa has the worst corona virus outbreak
zapt
very sad
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innit
Correct.
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zapt
packed churches
zapt
packed holiday gatherings
euphonyaway
It depends on where. Like there is no such thing as a Canadian culture, it is very region specific, same with the states. Being from the Canadian atlantic coast I have felt more at home in Verginia than Vermont, its how the people interact. I felt more at home there than I did in Toronto.
innit
How would you describe your experiences in Toronto?
zapt
trumpers are ruining america
zapt
thousands dying a day
zapt
sad
innit
I am planning on leaving the United States soon.
innit
I no longer wish to be around 'these people'.
zapt
to go where
innit
I am still trying to figure that out -- probably Canada.
innit
Though, some of the northern European countries interest me.
innit
Germany, for example.
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zapt
tom hanks went to greece
euphonyaway
Refreshing. Rural Canada is very, very white, Toronto is the only major city in North America where over half the population are first generation immigrant. The whole world is there, different accents, religions, life stories, <3 that aspect. On the other hand it is a very, very, very dirty city with no personality other than Very Big.
innit
American culture is completely failed. American people are failed and sick and abusive and broken. I despise them very deeply.
zapt
so much for religion
innit
euphonyaway: Interesting @ over half -- I didn't know that.
zapt
they have been the worst examples this pandemic
innit
euphonyaway: That makes sense at @ no personality.
zapt
except the buddhists of course
euphonyaway
Yah, it is very high on the World City index, ahead of LA< just below Paris
euphonyaway
last I checked
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zapt
they are always exceptionally wise
innit
Oh, interesting.
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innit
The Toronto region is currently high on my list for Canada.
innit
It seems like a plausible starting point and then see how it feels.
euphonyaway
The World City Index is not just about wealth, or population, but how critical a city is to the global network of trade, culture and so fourth. And Toronto is like number five or six, lasy I checked
euphonyaway
Innit what line of work are you in? Opportunity varies greatly from place to place
innit
I am in software engineering, which is typically extremely flexible.
zapt
cities are antiquated now
innit
My understanding is you can kinda just work wherever.
euphonyaway
Innit Toronto is where you want to start your job search then
innit
Why do you say that?
zapt
remote workers dont start job searches in any area
zapt
thats antiquated now
euphonyaway
I have friends in software development who worked all over Canada, Vancouver and Toronto is where they tell me the highest growth is
innit
zapt: I do think we may be trending in that direction.
zapt
clearly
innit
Yeah, to some extent you can just travel wherever as long as you have an internet connection.
innit
Of course, time zone differences do lead to some complications.
zapt
the future is now
innit
"Always was." - Buddhism
innit
I am seeing Toronto at #2 on this world cities index.
innit
Up nine spots from last year.
innit
https://www.kearney.com/global-cities/2020
innit
I was outside a restaurant waiting to pick up some food I ordered online, right.
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innit
Some couple pulls up and I can tell they're impulsive people and will be confused why I am standing outside -- to avoid getting COVID-19 in a COVID-19 pandemic.
innit
So, I stand differently so they can tell they're after me. They accept this for several minutes until the Hunger sets in.
innit
Then, the guy, no doubt pushed on my conversation from the girl in the car, shows he's a Big Man, by trying to walk past me to get his food.
innit
He's now standing about three feet from my face.
innit
I say, "Can you not get within six feet of me in a COVID-19 pandemic?"
innit
He's dumbfounded. His face indicates he has heard that phrase before: COVID-19 pandemic. He's processing.
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euphonyaway
#2? Wow, okay. Toronto is moving up in the world. Being a largely immigrant city will do that I guess
innit
If he respects my wishes he'll be a coward in front of his girl's eyes, but I seem to be righteous in my request.
innit
This American responds, "That's not how you get COVID-19, though."
innit
This is an average experience in America.
euphonyaway
When I moved to Toronto I kept a tally of White vs non White faces, I was nearly giddy when I realised the count was nearly 1:1.
innit
"You underestimate my power, euphonyaway." - Toronto
euphonyaway
lol
innit
Mostly, in terms of skin color, I just want people to be cool and smart and open.
innit
And I think being an immigrant pushes that up a lot.
innit
I'll be an immigrant soon, somewhere, and I think my perspective will change in ways I don't expect.
euphonyaway
It reminded me of one of the most profound experiences of my childhood, being atop the Empire State Building with a few hundred other tourists and not being able to say what continent they were from based on their language
euphonyaway
<+innit> Mostly, in terms of skin color, I just want people to be cool and smart and open. <-- I am pretty much a xenophile so I like people in all shapes and colours.
euphonyaway
Going back home to Whitesville Canada depresses me
innit
"And yet, you don't seem to care very much for the Nazi ones. Curious." - a Nazi one
euphonyaway
Oh yah fck Nazis
euphonyaway
I do not care for Nazis, and you can quote me on that.
innit
That seems a good way to be in 2020 @ xenophile
innit
I like a mixture of openness/diversity along with shared cultural values.
innit
My shared cultural values are ideal republican, global species trying to mitigate climate change values, though. (To large part.)
innit
I find that emigrating from your country is very like getting a divorce.
euphonyaway
Canada is a unique case, we are not, nor do we want to be, a Melting Pot. Canada has a number of places with their own legal codes, and their own political systems. We are closer to the EU than a nation state. But there are shared political values, such as our social safety net and universal healthcare. Not even our Conservagtive Party has the balls to challenge that system
innit
I went many years with never thinking I'd get divorced. Then it happened for the first time but was very short.
euphonyaway
Where did you go the first time?
innit
At some point, you increasingly muse on your likely, future divorce. Eventually, you throw up your hands, "I'm getting a divorce."
euphonyaway
:(
innit
I haven't left yet.
innit
The first time I thought seriously about this was when Trump won.
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innit
Any culture which selects Trump as its leader has failed and has died.
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innit
It's gotten worse since then.
euphonyaway
That sucks, I can't imagine wanting to leave Canada, but, not to be rude, if we ended up with something like Trump I would fck off to one of the Nordic countries, maybe Israel, but more likely somewhere like Iceland
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innit
euphonyaway: That's interesting -- I have gotten some of that vibe @ closer to EU, but I suspect there's still much for me to learn in that regard.
innit
We have a one and only life and living it around people who can't just state they're abused is taxing in a way that is hard to describe.
innit
That's all I'm really looking for in American culture right now to not fully get divorced.
innit
Not an improvement -- just a full acknowledgement of reality.
innit
This will not be coming.
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innit
Obviously Trump supporters are beyond redemption. I got used to that years ago.
innit
I'm talking about the people who don't like Trump who can't really fathom how terrible our system is. Who don't think Medicare for All isn't a moral necessity.
euphonyaway
There is this whole thing about our culture "Canadian culture is asking what is Canadian culture" we do not make sense as a country, we are a patchwork. Like Quebec has its own constitution, its own legal system. Nunavut and the North West Territories has its own distinct political system, consensus government. In America it seems to be "I am not part of a community! I am a free man!" Whereas Canadians of different stripes are "I am my own
euphonyaway
community (first nations, quebecois, some others) and ya all better not try colonizing me!" but we get along
euphonyaway
I do not understand opposition to universal healthcare in america
euphonyaway
it makes NO sense to me
innit
From what I can tell, it's of two sources: 1) The leaders are directly bribed by the healthcare insurance companies and so they have a personal, class-based interest in keeping the status quo, and 2) everybody else who is incredibly abused and repeat their abusers phrases that are obviously incompatible with reality.
innit
For example, "How are you gonna pay for it?!", they yell, exasperated.
innit
(It saves several hundred billion per year.)
innit
(American culture is, literally, paying several hundred billion people per year to really rich people, in a dying political system, to have a mini-COVID-19 death toll each year.)
euphonyaway
Innit, bribery and false consciousness, yah sounds right
innit
It's just too painful for most people to say that last post of mine.
innit
Our leaders are paying hundred millionaires tens of millions of dollars per year to kill poor and typical Americans?
innit
It's hurtful. It's shocking. It's destabilizing.
innit
Therefore, it's not true.
innit
It must cost more. It must. *shakes*
euphonyaway
Americans, like others, are really averse to depressing realities
innit
Yes, it definitely has its roots in the human condition, but the propaganda in America -- at super-COVID-19 levels -- seems to have pushed it to some incredible levels.
innit
(COVID-19 was caused by the information epidemic in the United States to large extent.)
innit
(That is, COVID-19 is a small front in the real disease/fight.)
euphonyaway
You make Fake NEws caused the crisis? Yah
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innit
Definitely.
innit
Trump got elected because of that epidemic. Trump literally shut down the pandemic office in the Wuhan region in 2018.
innit
With a more competent president it's possible SARS-CoV-2 never even spreads much beyond China.
innit
And from the research I've seen, about 95-98.5% of the deaths in America from COVID-19 were preventable even after it became a pandemic.
euphonyaway
More than likely yah
euphonyaway
But I am not well informed about it
innit
My guess is it would have become a pandemic even without the office, maybe 70-30.
innit
even with*
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doomed
Wrong, Ross. It was conservatives who went maskless.
euphonyaway
Its just the *staggering* rejection of basic human decency Trump had after. Attacking and insulting journalists who wore masks at his press meetings, holding super spreader events, calling it a Lying Lib lie, then the Kung Flu. The President is not just a politician, he is the one who *presides* over cultural issues, people trust him, and he was the voice that persuaded  people, even good and repsonsible people, not to wear a mask or distanc
doomed
It was conservatives who opposed wearing masks.
euphonyaway
I am *so glad* our cereminal head of state lives in a castle across an ocean while our actual head of government is "that stupid git from Papineau", it limits the damage a Prime Minister can do
doomed
Laugh all you want, Ross.
doomed
Just stop lying.
doomed
Yes we know you hate liberals.
innit
doomed: The data indicates those who don't wear masks are right-wing v. left-wing 30 to 1.
innit
It's almost exclusively a right-wing issue.
innit
Personality traits associated with not wearing a mask include narcissism, psychopathy, and authoritarianism.
doomed
Rightwingers made it political.
innit
doomed: They do not have the cognitive resources to manage modern nation states.
euphonyaway
Talking to ross about anything is a fool's errand
doomed
Everyone, with the possible exception of Mister Rogers, hates someone.
innit
doomed: Rightwing minds tends to overassess causal agency in the world -- part of their theism.
innit
So, therefore, a respiratory virus they cannot see that isn't an embodied agent is something they can model.
doomed
They just redefine the word hate.
euphonyaway
overassess causal agency in the world <-- what does that mean
doomed
Like people redefine the word love.
innit
they cannot model*
doomed
Instead of being honest to themselves and others.
doomed
Love does not mean hate, Ross.
innit
euphonyaway: One way you can segment causation is that which comes from agents like yourselves -- rivals peering on you from the bushes lusting over your mate -- and from non-agents, like plate tectonics and respiratory viruses.
doomed
See? You redefined love.
innit
Humans are theistic, in large part, because evolution adapted them to over-perceive causation by agents. The bush is shaking because an agent is in there, rather than the mere wind.
innit
So, they see agents everywhere aka spirits, ghosts, gods.
euphonyaway
Doomed its like their "I don't hate gay people, I just have sincere beliefs that they are insane child predators trying to recruit for their cult" Very annoying. Republican Christian are not the only ones who express those ideas, atheists who voted for Biden do as well, but it is overwhelmngly a right wing talking point
innit
More mundane versions of it are seen in rightwing conspiracy theories where they assign cabals to all kinds of observable phenomena.
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euphonyaway
Innit, you mean like how leftists look at crime and see poverty but right wingers see bad blaaaaaaaaaaaaacks?
innit
Quite possibly, though I haven't thought of that particular example before.
doomed
By redefining love as hate, you can claim that you love everyone.
euphonyaway
leftists tend to see things like poverty and a broken system, rightists tend to see lazy degenerates when they look at things like crime
innit
Sociological forces commingling across time and space is hard to understand, but "lazy black boy" is immediate.
doomed
Ross, that is incorrect.
doomed
This is one example of why I do not trust what most people say. The way they redefine words. Like in the example I just showed of people redefining the word love.
euphonyaway
PhilosophyTube did a great video on how white racists like Ross and EricOfAZ do not love their country, rather they only love themselves and hate the majority of people in their countries because they are incapable of loving the Other. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mR382NPaGM

euphonyaway
They have an infantile and under developed view of love
doomed
Thank you Ross for proving my point.
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