December 15, 1972 Nixon Colson Talk Labor

TRANSCRIPT OF A RECORDING OF A MEETING BETWEEN THE PRESIDENT AND CHARLES COLSON ON THE OVAL OFFICE PHONE ON DECEMBER, 1972, BETWEEN 9:25 A.M. AND 12:44 P.M.

Both of these pieces provide helpful context for this conversation about labor between Nixon and Chuck Colson:

The Taxing Trials at IRS:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cxpXAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dPoDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5637%2C1450030

Peter Brennan obituary:

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/10/04/nyregion/peter-brennan-78-union-head-and-nixon-s-labor-chief.html

Audio is taken from these clips on youtube by user rmm413c:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8Kt2Jmc2ao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jct3m-6EIqI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iBXz0o7wbA

Transcript accompanied by audio is on a clip on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF8Ty21uyaE

A conversation between the president and his hatchet man, Chuck Colson, without major revelations, but which is fascinating due to the any topic of discussion: though organized labor is now positioned as the enemy of Republicans (and democracy, America, etc.), here we have the president trying to re-position labor as part of a new conservative coalition. Nixon would pardon Jimmy Hoffa, and would get close to Frank Fitzsimmons, Hoffa's successor in the Teamsters. Hoffa's chosen heir, Harold Gibbons, would be shut out, a point of much laughter in this phone call. George Meany, head of the AFL-CIO, would withhold any endorsement in the 1972 election after the Democrats nominated McGovern. Peter Brennan, head of the Building and Construction Trades union in New York would lead the "hard hat" riot where anti-war demonstrators were assaulted by union members, and would be named Nixon's Secretary of Labor. This gambit would ultimately fail: Brennan would back a watered down minimum wage proposal after which Meany gave him the cold shoulder.

That these workers who were white "ethnic" - Polish, Italian, Irish - felt themselves genuinely excluded from American life and were grateful for being accepted by the President, is a major part of the conversation, as the two men talk about a visit by the top labor leaders to the White House where they showed unembarrassed joy at being in this hallowed place. The importance of symbols is often spoken of in terms of discrimination, yet this symbol was of great importance to these men as well, and this emphasis on symbolism persists to this day, with more tangible issues set to the side: can the president relate to the common is asked, rather than concrete policy on wages and working conditions.

Other points of conversation are the appointment of George Webster as IRS Commissioner (despite his previous five tax violations) so they might better use the agency against their enemies, getting the Arizona vote count so that Nixon has the biggest electoral landslide in history, strongarming CBS to take on Herb Klein, their communications director, as a commentator, and most chillingly, Nixon's attitude towards the upcoming Christmas bombing of Vietnam: "Most American people probably want to bomb the bastards." This bombing is not seen in terms of geopolitical tactics, but the politics of strength. Colson: "Our majority...doesn't want to be pushed around."

PRESIDENT: Hello?

COLSON: Yes sir, Mr. President.

PRESIDENT: Chuck, I just wanted to check on you. Webster [George Webster, Nixon's pick for next IRS Commissioner]. To be sure, you know, I got the report from Dean, about these five violations and all the rest, and I...said, well, I'll stick by him if he wants to fight.

COLSON: Well, it's a little bit like Bill Casey's [Casey, later director of the CIA, was then head of the SEC] situation...what he has, Mr. President, is, he had a very minor thing, where they file a tax thing, but that was $200 dollars, but that was nothing.

PRESIDENT: I don't...forget that one.

COLSON: Yeah. The others were...where he, after audit, they disagreed with deductions he had taken.

PRESIDENT: Right.

COLSON: And I don't know all the details, but he said...he argued it out, and they had an audit, in '67, '66, and-

PRESIDENT: (hocks luge)

COLSON: -he was, in those days, making a lot of money. And so, five or six thousand dollars, uh...

PRESIDENT: Yeah. My point is this: do we stick with him?

COLSON: Well...I think he's the best man for the job, Mr. President.

PRESIDENT: Yeah, well, let's start with that. Fine.

COLSON: Okay, I think he's the best man for the job. Let me, however, disqualify myself in one respect: I've known Webster very, very well...and if he goes into the IRS, I've told him, and I don't stand to gain from this, but I've told him that I would watch his practice for him.

PRESIDENT: Right.

COLSON: I would help him by taking...the young associates out of his office and just taking [care] of it for him.

PRESIDENT: Right.

COLSON: So, in one sense, I suppose I have a financial interest...

PRESIDENT: Right, forget all that. Should we stand by him or not?

COLSON: I would, yes sir.

PRESIDENT: Alright, fine. We're standing by him. The point is, I told Shultz [George Shultz, Treasury Secretary] that, and all these assholes that want to run away from people.

COLSON: Don't forget, you know, he was audited during the time that the Democrats were in here, and when he was a very active Goldwater Republican, and a Baker [Howard Baker] Republican, and a...

PRESIDENT: Right.

COLSON: ...and ran Lawyers for Nixon...

PRESIDENT: You understand...

COLSON: Yeah.

PRESIDENT: I'm all for him...I just don't want him to...skip the fight, and not run the situation I ran with Haynesworth and Carswell [Clement Haynsworth and G. Harrold Carswell, two Nixon Supreme Court nominees that were defeated in the Senate], where they didn't stand up and fight.

COLSON: Oh, I think...they'd have a helluva job, you see, the reason...I'm sorry about the tax part, and your former partner Alexander...

PRESIDENT: Oh, screw Alexander, I don't give a shit what he thinks.

COLSON: Well-

PRESIDENT: I couldn't care less.

COLSON: Webster's published more Goddamned books on tax law, a whole slew of them...

PRESIDENT: (hocks luge)

COLSON: ...and he holds these annual conferences, a totally qualified professional. Hell, the guy...the trouble is, the guy's from East Tennessee...and he's not from...

PRESIDENT: That's right.

COLSON: ...and though he went to Harvard Law School, he's not the stereotype cravat swain...

PRESIDENT: Alright, fine. But your advice is to go forward? Fine.

COLSON: Yes sir. Although I do qualify, I want you to know that...

PRESIDENT: It would be a helluva fight.

COLSON: Well, no. Nonono, I want you to know that since proposing him to you, I've told him I would take over his practice.

PRESIDENT: Fine. I don't give a shit about that. I don't give one Goddamn about that. Take over his- I don't. Believe me. I don't give a damn about that. I hope you do take over his practice. Now, the second point, with regard to our friend from Illinois...

COLSON: Yes sir. (Unintelligible.)

PRESIDENT: I asked him if he wanted anything, he said, well, Chuck, this and that and the rest...but I haven't heard a damn thing.

COLSON: Well, the thing he'd like to do, which I mentioned briefly, to Bob and John, I don't know if they might mentioned to you, in Key Biscayne, is the FCC. He'd like to go on that, if he could become Chairman. Course, he'd be tremendous.

PRESIDENT: Why not?

COLSON: He'd jolt the hell out of the network. He's in the communications-

PRESIDENT: FCC.

COLSON: Yeah. He'd be great at that. And...

PRESIDENT: Difficulty is, we've got Burch [Dean Burch, chairman of the FCC] there. How do we get rid of him?

COLSON: Well, Burch has to leave by the end of this year...in order to become...if he's going to run for the Senate in Arizona. And he says he is.

PRESIDENT: Well...why don't we just put...see, Bradshaw [David Bradshaw, son-in-law to Clement Stone, a major Nixon contributor] on...

COLSON: Yes.

PRESIDENT: And then promote him up? That would be...Bradshaw hates them, doesn't he?

COLSON: Oh, he despises the networks. He would kill them. He would do...(laughs) Jesus, they'd die with a guy like that.

PRESIDENT: Alright, follow through on that, will ya?

COLSON: He's got enough money that he doesn't have to...

PRESIDENT: Yeah. Follow through on that, with their people. If that's what he wants, that's what he's gonna get.

COLSON: Well, he would be great at that. See, we can put him into the Nicholas Johnson [FCC Commissioner] vacancy, when Nick Johnson, the Democrat, the crazy...

PRESIDENT: That isn't till June.

COLSON: That's right. But in June we put him in that, and then, move him up to Burch's spot when Rich leaves. Dave is wealthy enough, that he wouldn't-

PRESIDENT: Alright, fine. Work that out. That's what I want to do. Okay.

COLSON: Well, I hope your leg is alright, Mr. President.

PRESIDENT: Oh, shit. Nothing wrong with that.

COLSON: I notice you limping a little bit when you left tonight, that's...

PRESIDENT: Well, I got this...got a pretty bad cut. But that's alright. But, you know, these people, the second night, the third night, and this night...my daughter, as I told you, and Mrs Nixon said, "You know, they're so different from the people we saw the first night." Whom they love, because they're all of our old friends...

COLSON: That's right.

PRESIDENT: But these, these have got, you know...they've got verve. And schmaltz. What the Jewish people call chutzpah.

COLSON: Yeah, they really have it too.

PRESIDENT: They came to the line, you know...They cry, with tears in their eyes...it's the most Goddamnedest thing you ever saw. What did you think?

COLSON: Well I, of course I know about half the ones that were there today. I've known all of the ones that were early this week. They're lovers. I mean, when they do something, it's for love. McCarroll [John McCarroll, President of Local 544 of the United Auto Workers], who seconded you down there today...with his wife and he's just...God bless the President...

PRESIDENT: Did they have a good time though?

COLSON: Hell yeah.

PRESIDENT: When I see them, all they do is shake hands, but I hope they gave them nice you know, refreshments, and all the rest, and the music.

COLSON: Well, it was beautiful, and of course, Mrs. Nixon has done such a spectacular job with the house this year, every dish is perfect. Everything.

PRESIDENT: But they all felt good about coming, did they?

COLSON: They felt great about coming. The thing that interests me, and maybe we're still in the glow of the election, these people would go to, they'd march off a cliff for you. It's incredible. Over at Blair House last night, the conversation during dinner and then the feeling afterwards...and everybody coming up...you know, the difference with the Republicans is that...and it's terrible, because...

PRESIDENT: I know.

COLSON: I've been a Republican-

PRESIDENT: We know them, we love them.

COLSON: But they're always bitching. They're always negative. They never-

PRESIDENT: Like you said when you went to your old club, and found they're always bitching. And why should they be bitching?

COLSON: I know.

PRESIDENT: Good God, I'm fighting for their Goddamn causes.

COLSON: But these people-

PRESIDENT: What were they people bitching about that night? What was it?

COLSON: Oh, they were bitching that we've been...

PRESIDENT: Too (unintelligible)?

COLSON: Too cozy, too friendly with labor. That you play golf with Meany [George Meany, head of the AFL-CIO], but never with the business people-

PRESIDENT: Oh, screw 'em.

COLSON: Yeah, I know, that's awful (laughs).

PRESIDENT: Awful.

COLSON: But this crowd last night, God, they are just wonderful. Those labor guys, and...they're all in our corner. I just just...no question of it.

PRESIDENT: We've got them. Old Fitz [Frank Fitzsimmons, head of the Teamsters], for example, I had lots of his people...and I mention him to everybody. Hell, they all know.

COLSON: Yeah. (laughs)

PRESIDENT: And Joe T. [Joseph Trerotola, director of the Eastern Conference of Teamsters] and the rest.

COLSON: Well-

PRESIDENT: We're gonna have them forever.

COLSON: Yes, they're great. Oh yeah, we are. No doubt about that. My God, that's one organization that I'm going to see that we control. Fitz and I have already started to clean out, we're getting rid of Gibbons [Harold Gibbons, top lieutenant in the Teamsters], we're gonna put-

PRESIDENT: The thing that pleases me, was what...Brennan [Peter Brennan, Nixon's then nominee for Secretary of Labor] said, when he said, he (unintelligible) said, "I think you should know, I went to eight offices that didn't have your picture up...I put your picture up," he said. Now, Goddamnit, is that really true? Here, we've had Shultz and Hodgson [James Hodgson, Secretary of Labor till Brennan took over], both Nixon loyalists, why didn't they put my picture up? Tell me.

COLSON: They don't think this way, Mr. President.

PRESIDENT: (hocks luge)

COLSON: Let me tell what Brennan did. He went over there, he walked through a few offices, couldn't find your picture, so he turned to Bob Armao...very, very bright young Italian lad, out of Rockefeller's office, who he's bringing down here with him, and he said, "Bob. Go tell the front office, Hodgson, that by nine tomorrow morning I want the president's picture in every office of the labor department." By nine tomorrow morning (laughs) they were running through the halls clipping out pictures of magazines, they ran out of pictures of the president.  But it's an order. And it's in effect right now. And Hodgson said, Jesus, he went along with it.

PRESIDENT: Hodgson didn't do it.

COLSON: He'd never think of it. Brennan goes over there, and he says, "By God, we're going to have American flags throughout this building, and we're going to have pictures of the President of the United States." And there'll be no pictures of Kennedy.

PRESIDENT: Shultz didn't have any, neither did Hodgson, and both are totally loyal.

COLSON: Well-

PRESIDENT: What the hell's the trouble?

COLSON: You remember what I told you when I talked about labor, somebody has to go in there and clean them out. And uh...he's got a hundred people that he's targeted to remove, BLS [Bureau of Labor Statistics] had now been, Moore's [Geoffrey Moore, head of the BLS] gone...

PRESIDENT: Is he?

COLSON: Oh yes.

PRESIDENT: Great.

COLSON: And we accept it. We accepted his resignation. And...

PRESIDENT: Right.

COLSON: We cleaned out all but one...we had to leave one Assistant Secretary, and of course Osterreich, depending on Kantz, he'll stay in. If he wants to stay, which I think he does.

PRESIDENT: Who?

COLSON: Although Osterreich should go over to the job that Kantz now has. But Brennan has just gone in there, there's gonna be, he's told: tomorrow, there's gonna be no more pictures of Kennedy, he found a lot of Kennedy pictures. No more Kennedy pictures.

PRESIDENT: That's right.

COLSON: They'll all be Nixon pictures. President Nixon is the president.

PRESIDENT: (hocks luge)

COLSON: And an American flag will be flown in the office. (laughs)

PRESIDENT: Oh Christ, that's great.

COLSON: Well, it's-

PRESIDENT: How does Brennan feel, is he pleased about the two evenings?

COLSON: He's just so upbeat, Mr. President. He feels great. Course, he loves these kinds of things. Those dinners he loved, because...well he...

PRESIDENT: There's one tomorrow night at eleven, too.

COLSON: Of course, sir. And he loves what's happening, that he's opening the door. And, he knows...

PRESIDENT: You know, we've changed, Chuck, we're changing the whole thing.

COLSON: Yeah.

PRESIDENT: Whoever thought...four years ago, labor guys would be in this house...with their...their wives and themselves. The thing that impressed me, most of them had tears in their eyes. It was the Goddamnedest thing. My wife said...and Julie, of course, is so sentimental, said, "They were so nice, Daddy. They were such nice people. But they weren't Republicans."

COLSON: They're warm, they're feeling, and they really identify...they identify with you, and with the country, and with Mrs. Nixon and Julie too. That was lovely. Because...those women. Oh, those women, my God. Oh, a couple of them said, "We'll never be the same," and Mrs. Calcaterra, I wish, I'd give anything to have a film of that. She was...

PRESIDENT: That night, huh?

COLSON: Following you...as you, every move. And I watched her, and all of a sudden, a tear came down. And I went over to her, and I didn't know what it was, I could tell by the look in her face: And she said, "I love that man. I love him." And I was just, so...but they all mean it. It's just...oh, they're great. The press is having fun. They were trying to find out this afternoon...all these witches over there were trying to find out from the press corps, where did this list come from? They were buzzing, they'd never seen a group like this coming through the White House.

PRESIDENT: This is the Jackson thing [a reference to Andrew Jackson's inauguration, when the White House was open to the public], you know?

COLSON: Yes sir.

PRESIDENT: People coming in, no mud on their shoes...but this is the new majority.

COLSON: It's the new majority.

PRESIDENT: Did the press get the point?

COLSON: Well I-, well I-, grabbed me, Helen Thomas, and that bawl from Newsweek. Somebody, some other bitch I've never seen. And they all said, "Where'd this list come from?" I said, "This is the middle of America." This is a cross-section. This is the new majority. And they were all, "How come we don't see many blacks here?" I said-

PRESIDENT: There were blacks! There were about five or six.

COLSON: I pointed them out. But they're, you can tell...this is killing the press corps, Mr. President.

PRESIDENT: Is it really?

COLSON: Oh sure. Because what they're seeing is, the Nixon majority. And they're seeing middle America coming into the White House, and these bitches who write for the Post and the New York Times want to write about all the Mrs. Tulie Footes, and her minks coming into New York. The beautiful people.

PRESIDENT: All of a sudden they see...

COLSON: Yeah.

PRESIDENT: ...ordinary people coming in.

PRESIDENT: Yes.

COLSON: Instead of the beautiful people of the Kennedy era-

PRESIDENT: Right.

COLSON: -what they're seeing are the John McCarrolls-

PRESIDENT: Right.

COLSON: -who's a welder and foreman, and knows how to work his plant.

PRESIDENT: And the point is, the President likes them and they like him.

COLSON: That's right.

COLSON: Oh my God.

PRESIDENT: Did I get that across?

COLSON: Yes sir, and I steered a couple like McCarroll over to the press because, Christ, he talks about you like he talks about God. I mean, he just- (laughs)

PRESIDENT: He remembers the telephone call and all the rest?

COLSON: Oh sure, my God, oh God. And of course, that great speech. I tried to steer a few of those types to the press, because they're the enthusiasts who can really spell it out. And they-

PRESIDENT: Well.

COLSON: It's a great thing...

PRESIDENT: We may not win the press, but we're going to win these people.

COLSON: Oh, you've got these people.

PRESIDENT: They're ours, and then we're going to work on all of them.

COLSON: Well-

PRESIDENT: Old Fitz, we've got him, haven't we?

COLSON: Oh solidly...

PRESIDENT: He told me, just between you and me...you know what he really said about this fellow?

COLSON: I think I do. (laughs) I think I heard it.

PRESIDENT: Gibbons.

COLSON: Yeah.

PRESIDENT: And his wife in hearing. I said, "What happened to Gibbons?" "Fuck him, he wasn't with us."

COLSON: (laughs) Well, that's the way he feels. He's dying for me to get in with them now. He says, he know he wants me in as his counsel...he wants to clean them all out. He said he wants nothing but Fitzsimmons-Nixon loyalists. Fitz just says to me, "We're going to clean them out. Get rid of all the people we can't trust." And get clean people, young people. Good people. Joe T. types who are...

PRESIDENT: Right.

COLSON: ...honest, get some young ones in...

PRESIDENT: Good.

COLSON: That's a powerful organization, Mr. President. Oughta be three million people by the end of next year.

PRESIDENT: Fine. How are you getting your count? Have we lost or gained...

COLSON: I haven't got anything since I talked to you yesterday.

PRESIDENT: Goddamn, get the Arizona count. Get that worked out.

COLSON: Yeah, you'll see Scammon [Dick Scammon, political scientist and election analyst] on Sunday, he's coming to the church service...

PRESIDENT: Yeah?

COLSON: Give him a little nudge. Because I'm relying on him now to give me the last three or four to be settled...it's going to be there. Goddamnit, I know it is. Missouri is the big sleeper, and they're...course they're not all in, and I'm convinced in the final canvas, we'll pick up what we'll need to edge by that Johnson margin. Missouri now, we won't have, they won't tell us...let's see, I have the note here...

PRESIDENT: Eighteenth?

COLSON: Eighteenth, I guess. Yeah. Eighteenth.

PRESIDENT: Longer?

COLSON: No, that's the eighteenth. No, that's Monday. If we get that Monday, I'll know then...whether we're over or not. West Virgina, they're saying now...they've had some problems. Still. So, they were supposed to have been in, and they're not in...so I don't have anything.

PRESIDENT: But what about Arizona getting that thirty thousand?

COLSON: Scammon is working on that for me. Because they have to go back and read, do their own calculations. And...Dick may have that...Dick was out of town today, I tried to reach him. He may have that up by, over this weekend...

PRESIDENT: Probably Monday.

COLSON: We'll get it up there. One way or another, we'll get it up there. I'd just love to...it would put all the frosting on it. But it's...God, when you see people like this...

PRESIDENT: I loved them.

COLSON: What it really proves, Mr. President is...the wisdom of the strategy. The issues that got these people that are standing up for the country. I remember when people around here thought it was kinda corny to wear that American flag...God, that was the smartest thing...

PRESIDENT: I wore one tonight.

COLSON: Oh, there were a helluva lot in the line wearing it. The last two nights.

PRESIDENT: They noticed it too?

COLSON: Oh, damn right.

PRESIDENT: Having Fulby [Senator William Fulbright D-AK], Fulby was good.

COLSON: Yeah. He was damn good. Pete [Brennan]. But...

PRESIDENT: Incidentally, we launched Scali [John Alfred Scali, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations] tonight.

COLSON: Yeah, I saw that in the Star. And that's great.

PRESIDENT: Isn't that great?

COLSON: Yeah. Marvelous. God, it's just...that has great effect on the Italians. He was at both of these Blair House things...I made him come over to the receiving...he spent a lot of time talking to the Italians, he spiels off in Italian, and they spiel off back at him. The Italians will see the significance of this. In fact, they'll...

PRESIDENT: Having an Italian in the cabinet with full...

COLSON: Right.

PRESIDENT: ...cabinet status.

COLSON: Right.

PRESIDENT: And ambassador to the U.N. Full cabinet status. That's what I told them.

COLSON: That's right. Well, that's...we're getting some other names now. We're getting some others...

PRESIDENT: Get me one poll. I haven't got a poll yet.

COLSON: Well, we're having trouble on the line tonight...Mitchell Kobilinsky, we're trying to put him in...immigration service. He wants it, he's a good lawyer. Good background for it.

PRESIDENT: Good.

COLSON: And so that's...the immigration service for him...I'm trying to put...

PRESIDENT: Fine.

COLSON: ....put through our system.

PRESIDENT: Put him in.

COLSON: Yeah, he's a little rough, but uh...

PRESIDENT: I don't give a shit about that...

COLSON: That's right. Well, we got another one...another homebuilder too, from Chicago.

PRESIDENT: If he's our guy, put him in.

COLSON: That's right. And he's our guy.

PRESIDENT: Get a Pole in there.

COLSON: He's absolutely our guy.

PRESIDENT: Fine.

COLSON: I talked to Paley [William S. Paley, head of CBS] yesterday, Mr. President.

PRESIDENT: Well good. I was going to ask you...

COLSON: About Klein [Herb Klein, Nixon's long-time communications director and press agent]...

PRESIDENT: He say no?

COLSON: No. I never got a chance...I called him up and I said, "I'm sorry, I haven't been able to talk to you." But he said, "Oh, can you see me?" And I said, "No. (laughs) I don't think so." I said, "I have one thing to talk to you about." And he said, "Fine. I'll come down tomorrow." I said, "No, I can't see you tomorrow." He said, "I'll come down Monday." And, he didn't want to talk...dying to come see me. So, I'll let him come in.

PRESIDENT: And then then...put the Klein to him [hire Klein as a CBS talking head]?

COLSON: Put the Klein thing to him. I'm seeing him Monday at one o'clock.

PRESIDENT: Tell him: see Klein, period.

COLSON: Oh yeah. I'll just say, look, you guys are crazy if...you can hire all the executives you want, that isn't going to solve your problem. You gotta put somebody on the air who is going to give balance to all the Goddamn slamming that we've been taking from [Dan] Rather, Pierpoint [Robert Pierpoint, CBS correspondent]...

PRESIDENT: Right.

COLSON: ...[Eric] Sevareid [CBS correspondent], and [Walter] Cronkite...

PRESIDENT: That guy.

COLSON: ...Schorr [Daniel Schorr, CBS correspondent]. I'm going to make a real bitch on it.

PRESIDENT: Alright.

COLSON: I'm sure Herb will love it too. That will help us...

PRESIDENT: Also: give Klein plenty of money.

COLSON: Oh, they-

PRESIDENT: They have the money.

COLSON: They've got plenty of money. They sure as hell do. You think they would think of that...they're so Goddamn...

PRESIDENT: Well. You do it.

COLSON: Oh, I'll put the screws to them. And I know just...he [Paley] was so eager...the fact that I would call him. And be willing to talk to him. He wanted to come down first thing this morning, I got him last night, he wanted to come down this morning, I said I can't do it. So, he'll be here Monday, and I'll put the screws to him, very hard.

PRESIDENT: Say we want Klein, and they oughta put him in there, have balance on their show, and Klein is a helluva television personality.

COLSON: Sure.

PRESIDENT: And they oughta have a little balance in the Goddamn thing.

COLSON: That's right. And they'll put him in, we'll still going to figure, I've still got some ideas, of ways to...

PRESIDENT: I know.

COLSON: We'll put the screws to these fellows.

PRESIDENT: I know.

COLSON: I think there's an interesting thing happening.

PRESIDENT: What's that?

COLSON: Bebe mentioned this to me tonight. Teddy Kennedy's speech, which was very conciliatory...

PRESIDENT: Yeah, but, I was wondering about that very shrewd comment as I told you about our sonofabitch [Averell] Harriman, or Harriman said, "This was very smart. He's setting Nixon up, so he can kick him later."

COLSON: Yeah, that might be so. Or he might be getting a little worried about being known as the point man against a president who is, at this moment in history, as popular as...I don't think any president could be more popular than you are today. I think Teddy may be sensing this. He may...some people say he's got problems of his own that are going to develop...

PRESIDENT: You got other problems...the point is, get to your friend that knows Kennedy, tell him to get to Kennedy, and say, look, for Christ's sakes, let's get along for a while. You got your time, a few years from now.

COLSON: That's what I was thinking. That's what...I believe that's what Kennedy is...I think he's throwing out that olive branch deliberately. He doesn't want to tangle with us right now. And we're getting that same kind of feeling from the media.

PRESIDENT: Really?

COLSON: Oh yeah. Paley is going to jump on an airplane to come down here. They're scared of us, you know...first of all, they know...I think they now know that we mean business. We're not sucking around with them. The election's over, they got to live with us four years. They know that. And I think giving that interview with Jack Horner [Garnett "Jack" Horner, correspondent for the Washington Star], was one of the smartest things that ever happened, because...

PRESIDENT: It really burns their ass.

COLSON: Yeah. And then I gave CBS a helluva roasting in a speech...and we've been leaking stuff to the Star [Washington Star]. And I think they've all of a sudden figured out that we mean business.

PRESIDENT: That's right.

COLSON: And they're scared as hell. If we do mean business, we can do them a lot of harm. Whitehead [Clay Whitehead, head of the Office of Telecommunications Policy] is giving a speech next week that's going to shake the hell out of the networks. I cleared it, it's tough...he'll be giving it as his own views. Each one of these things, they understand what the name of the game is. If we continue to play it rough, they'll...bring these bastards around. That's uh...

PRESIDENT: I was going to stick with Webster, okay?

COLSON: Yes sir.

PRESIDENT: Fight it out.

COLSON: Oh hell. He's a good...He's got many many Republican...

PRESIDENT: And tell him to get some friends to, get all of his friends lined up, that they're for him, you know. So we don't have a situation where it's him against us.

COLSON: No no. He'll get a lot of help on the Hill. He's got an awful lot of friends up there. And when his fellows, it's not like...there's nothing here they can really make an issue out of...he thinks they audited the hell out of him because he was an active Republican during those early sixties. I think that's probably true.

PRESIDENT: Right.

COLSON: He's a fighter...we'll get him through. Brock [William Brock, Senator R-TN] is his closest friend up there, and I'm sure that...

PRESIDENT: Who? Brock?

COLSON: Yes.

PRESIDENT: Brock is a friend of his?

COLSON: Oh yes.

PRESIDENT: You tell Brock, Goddamnit, we gotta get him in.

COLSON: I thought I would call Bill and just say, "Look..."

PRESIDENT: This is a must.

COLSON: Yup. Yup.

PRESIDENT: Okay.

COLSON: Yes sir. Well, I hope your foot is better, don't let...

PRESIDENT: Ooooh...don't worry about the foot, it's just a little infection. It'll come out.

COLSON: Jesus, well, have them watch it.

PRESIDENT: Oh, there's no problem, no problem. It'll work out.

COLSON: You're too important.

PRESIDENT: Now, as you know, we're...we've got a tough problem on Vietnam...Henry's gonna give a briefing tomorrow...it'll be pretty tough...but also, not in sorrow, not in anger, but in sorrow...then on, about, when am I gonna do it, this Sunday...Monday. We're gonna start bombing the bastards.

COLSON: I talked to Haig this afternoon, and I...

PRESIDENT: What do you think?

COLSON: Oh, I think you're absolutely on the right course. I mean, it would be nice if the North Vietnamese had caved, they didn't, the hell with them. The American people are solidly with you. And I just don't think you have any problem at all. I think, if Henry handles it...they'll still totally open to the negotiations, but not until they're ready to come back to their original position, which doesn't close the door. No, I think the way you outlined it yesterday is...

PRESIDENT: I gave them a line to use, I hope he gets in, I know he will...where I said, "What we want...is not...after the longest war, we don't want a short peace."

COLSON: Mmmhmm. Mmmhmm.

PRESIDENT: That's a pretty good line, isn't it?

COLSON: That's a damn good...damn good line. Damn good line. But I don't think you have to worry about a public outcry.

PRESIDENT: We'll take a little outcry.

COLSON: Oh, a little bit, sure. A little bit.

PRESIDENT: People will say, "Oh Christ, why are we bombing them?," and all that. That's alright. Most American people probably want to bomb the bastards.

COLSON: I think they do. I don't think they want to be pushed...I'm damn sure, that our majority, our constituency, sure as hell doesn't want to be pushed around.

PRESIDENT: Mmmhmmm.

COLSON: And they want to sell out. They want to go out of there on a...they want you to tell them that we're going out in a way that is honorable, and it was all worthwhile. That's what they want to hear. And until we can tell them that, their attitude is going to be, we're not going to be pushed around. I don't think you'll find...I think the mood of the country is...

PRESIDENT: Now. One thing I want you to do, though. I told Haldeman today, I guess he's been in touch with you...the main thing is...I want you to mobilize...all of our people to be all out when the bombing starts.

COLSON: Absolutely.

PRESIDENT: The VFW [Veterans of Foreign Wars], the American Legion, the hardhats, saying "Thank God we're doing what we oughta do." Right?

COLSON: Right.

PRESIDENT: Will you do that?

COLSON: I will do that, Mr. President. We'll get...they'll come out for us. We got the right ones. We've been spending time with them this week, we've got them all here.

PRESIDENT: Get Meany lined up, of course. We'll have to...

COLSON: Meany will be fine.

PRESIDENT: We oughta tell Henry that he oughta maybe, go over and have a little chat with Meany, and tell Meany, "Goddamn it, let's go."

COLSON: Yeah, that oughta be a good idea. Either Henry or Haig, who Meany-

PRESIDENT: Maybe Haig, more than Meany. Henry.

COLSON: Yeah, Meany thinks very highly of Haig.

PRESIDENT: Haig, rather than Henry, because Meany is a little anti-semitic.

COLSON: Yup. He is. And suspicious. Haig is a good Catholic. He likes Haig.

PRESIDENT: Yeah. Good.

COLSON: No, I don't think, I really don't think there's any problem. Maybe a little ripple. A little bit...the Marvin Kalbs [CBS journalist] will get all excited.

PRESIDENT: Oh screw them.

COLSON: Exactly. People don't follow them. God, I certainly heard, that's one thing that this group that we had in this week are unanimous on...you talk about any of the network commentators, Jesus...they just, regard them as the enemy. I think that's one thing, that's one thing we've done with middle America. We've destroyed their credibility with...

PRESIDENT: That's right.

COLSON: ...with people. And, uh...

PRESIDENT: Good. Okay, get that Goddman percentage up.

COLSON: Yes sir. I'll work on that this weekend.

PRESIDENT: You and Scammon. Okay.

COLSON: We'll do it. Thank you, Mr. President.