5gen

Council Ban Reasoning

Sep 19th, 2017
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  1. Ban votes: [spoiler][/spoiler]
  2.  
  3. Xayah:
  4. [spoiler] Carracosta:
  5. This thing set up a Shell Smash on half the tier and then swept. Had very few defensive answers and was not even easily revenge killed due to solid bulk. Especially on rain teams Carracosta could easily set up and sweep as its Liquidation became extremely hard to switch into and pretty much took out anything.
  6.  
  7. Crabominable:
  8. Slowpoke and Frillish are this things only switch-ins, and it basically 6-0es stall on its own. While it is relatively easily revenge killed and offensively pressured, the Trick Room support it could receive pushed both Crabominable and Trick Room over the edge, and Crab was decided as the ban target. TR had to be nerfed and a Crab ban was the way to do it.
  9.  
  10. Ludicolo:
  11. Rain is incredibly overwhelming even now, as very few Pokemon are capable of actually dealing with the rain sweepers, which Ludicolo is the best of. Now, this Pokemon is not as broken as Carracosta, Crabominable, and Victreebel, but I followed the philosophy of the Kokoloko method that everything potentially broken should be banned, and this is definitely potentially broken.
  12.  
  13. Victreebel:
  14. Sun was even more overwhelming than rain, as it got an almost instawin against anything that's not Trick Room, and even that it could potentially beat if it outplayed (tho it's not a good matchup). Victreebel carried sun on its back with its high power and ability to use both Acid Downpour from Sludge Bomb and Inferno Overdrive from Weather Ball effectively and had to go to nerf the sun archetype.
  15. [/spoiler]
  16.  
  17.  
  18. Renny:
  19. [spoiler] Carracosta: while this might feel a little bit overrated, the true is that thanks to Z moves now it can even destroy those scarce ORAS checks like Tangela. So, after an easy Smash against something that it scares Costa blows through most teams with ease, especially if paired with rain (that is also one of the most viable and scary styles on ZU this gen, thanks to other things that dropped like Ludicolo)
  20.  
  21. Crabominable: while this might not feel as too bulky for that slow speed, the truth is that it is fast enough to break most of ZU walls and tu setup a sub and start PuP boosting since just with STABs deals massive damage. It is also a staple in TR, making it also bulkier thanks to HP investment which will completely terrorize offensive builds since it can even tank one Iron Boosted LO Mach Punch from Monferno at -1 def. Oh and its also one ice type without SR weakness which is really valuable...
  22.  
  23. Victreebel: this really needs an explanation? Absurdly fast and strong , capable of disabling a counter with Sleep Powder and nuking a lot of things with Z-Sludge Bomb or Z-Weather Ball... hell, it can even do some other gimmicks like growth if u feel like that...
  24. This just pushed sun over the edge, making again priority and some hardchecks like Quilladin a necesity on a lot of things.
  25. [/spoiler]
  26.  
  27. Aster:
  28. [spoiler]
  29. Carracosta:
  30. Carracosta is a mon of very few, and very limited ways to counter, mostly thanks to its status as a powerful mixed setup sweeper. Despite it being fairly obvious which types of moves Carracosta will have, it's difficult to predict which offensive bias it will hold, and even when you do send out a check the right Z move can let it break through anyway. Were Carracosta more fragile it would be possible to better check it offensively, but even at -2 it still only takes around half from Monferno's Iron Fist Life Orb Mach Punch with Solid Rock. The amount of strain placed on teambuilding by Carracosta's presence is far too high, and thus a ban seemed necessary.
  31.  
  32. Crabominable:
  33. Crabominable, while not individually broken, could be broken by the right team setup. In this case that team setup ended up being Trick Room. While Crabominable could take one strong hit thanks to its bulk normally, which made it acceptably usable, under Trick Room it would rarely even have to take that hit, and then when it did it could survive and keep attacking. While this is true for a lot of Trick Room abusers, the difference is in Crabominable's offensive presence. STAB Iron Fist Ice Hammer, STAB Close Combat, and Earthquake leave a Crabominable under Trick Room with almost no counters at all, and next to no good checks. Those counters, Slowpoke and Frillish, could be handled with a fair amount of ease by Crabominable's teammates, Ursaring or Beheeyem notably. And even then, if a player chose they could use Toxic on Crabominable to permanently cripple those two, as both are vulnerable to that move. Alternatively Crabominable could use Power-Up Punch to boost its already insanely powerful attack stat, or Rock Slide to OHKO bulky Articunos so that they may not Hurricane in return. This lack of consistent ways to check or counter Crabominable means that a player would not only have to pick one of its two counters to play with, but also build to beat two standard teammates for Crabominable, puts incredible amounts of strain on teambuilding, making a ban the fairly obvious choice.
  34.  
  35. Victreeebel:
  36. Victreebel's attributes, while already top tier on their own, made it an obviously broken Pokemon when Sun came into play. Victreebel already has strong STAB Poison and Grass type attacks with Sleep Powder and setup moves available. Under the Sun this becomes a much larger issue. Victreebel under the Sun also has access to Fire type Weather Ball, Growth to simulate shell smash, and enough speed to outspeed the entire metagame and put any checks to sleep before breaking through. The only thing technically holding that particular set back is that it doesn't set sun on its own, but this is hardly a large issue when Heat Rock is usable. The only technical counters, such as Muk, would be broken by this Growth set. If one wasn't worried about such things because they have appropriate teammates to deal with it, then Victreebel instead can set its own sun and freely sweep with Solarbeam and Weather Ball. Another notable issue is that Victreebel does not have to be a special sweeper, it has the moves to be a physical sweeper, and its stats are just as well set up to perform this role. Add in the possibility of Z moves or just Life Orb boosted damage into the equation and you have something that has almost no consistent answers at all, thus putting intense strain on teambuilding, making a ban the logical choice. [/spoiler]
  37.  
  38. 5gen:
  39. [spoiler] Crab: Crabominable had the raw power and offensive typing to be virtually unable to wall. Its low Speed turned it into Trick Room's most potent attacker, what was a poor trait instead bolstered Crabonimable's viability. Originally, I felt Crab had too poor a defensive typing and that CC made it easy to reveng, but on TR it just needs to bust through teams, which it did almost flawlessy. Incredibly easy to support (z-memento Dusknoir, Trick Room), breaks down teams quite easily for its teammates, and also heavily pressured defensive teams like no Pokemon could. For these reasons I voted ban.
  40.  
  41. Vic: Victreebel was simply a brainless Pokemon that took skill away from the game. Offense had little counterplay, Jumpluff and select Choice Scarf such as Fearow (even then it could go Timid and outpace). Defensive counterplay existed (Muk, Sliggoo, Bouff, Altaria, Quill, etc), but Victreebel had access to Growth and Z-Sludge Bomb or Z-Weather Ball to heavily dent its checks. Moreover, Vic's teammates would already have weakened the opposing team for a sweep. SD was another aspect which further made Vic hard to wall, and more of a threat out of sun. Pretty versatile mon. Can see a retest in the future, but as of now Victreebel is a massively unhealthy aspect of the meta that needs to go.
  42. [/spoiler]
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