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  1. [4/28/2014 7:43:30 PM] Nova Rain: Caribbean, are you the latest PRAX XO, or just a convenient director?
  2. [4/28/2014 7:43:55 PM] Michael Gilbert: Director
  3. [4/28/2014 7:43:57 PM] Nova Rain: I'm just idly curious, I have trouble following the structure over there. ;)
  4. [4/28/2014 7:44:44 PM] numismancer: alright, here's the deal
  5. [4/28/2014 7:44:56 PM] numismancer: we're hammering out the details of the meta-alliance concept
  6. [4/28/2014 7:45:15 PM] numismancer: you're here so you can sound off or ask questions/provide input into the process
  7. [4/28/2014 7:45:50 PM] numismancer: some of the principals are not here, because they're en route or already in iceland
  8. [4/28/2014 7:46:18 PM] numismancer: i leave tomorrow afternoon, so we're going to get some of the skeletal plans laid such that people know where we're headed, approximately
  9. [4/28/2014 7:46:37 PM] numismancer: that way there won't be so much confusion
  10. [4/28/2014 7:47:23 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Sovless shared GSF or a soverign alliance, which is more likely at this point?
  11. [4/28/2014 7:48:03 PM] numismancer: sov is highly likely due to the need for reaction farms and to avoid a perception of being second-class citizens
  12. [4/28/2014 7:48:17 PM] numismancer: there may well also be shared rights across gsf territory
  13. [4/28/2014 7:48:20 PM] Nova Rain: I'd be interested in hearing what the high level goals for this meta alliance are -- I've heard a lot of rumors, often contradictory.
  14. [4/28/2014 7:48:34 PM] bo.elder: ^^
  15. [4/28/2014 7:49:04 PM] numismancer: it's a mechanism to aggressively counteract coalition entropy
  16. [4/28/2014 7:49:21 PM] numismancer: what is 'coalition entropy', look at n3 and cfc and even pl over the past four years
  17. [4/28/2014 7:49:23 PM] numismancer: also the rus
  18. [4/28/2014 7:49:30 PM] numismancer: alliance leadership destroys men
  19. [4/28/2014 7:49:44 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: The ability to not have to manage the sov and infrastructure at the corp level would be really nice. Not being forced to run moons JBs and staging towers will allow more folks to focus on pvp activity
  20. [4/28/2014 7:50:03 PM] numismancer: in 2014 there are half the leaders and sovholding alliances that existed in 2010
  21. [4/28/2014 7:50:15 PM] numismancer: n3, cfc, pl, rus all have had shutdowns, corp mergers, alliance mergers
  22. [4/28/2014 7:50:22 PM] numismancer: this situation with gents is going to happen again
  23. [4/28/2014 7:50:36 PM] numismancer: it's best we have an orderly system to handle it
  24. [4/28/2014 7:50:42 PM] numismancer: unlike our enemies, who have nothing but chaos
  25. [4/28/2014 7:51:35 PM] numismancer: kesper, nova, lake, and shangpo flamed out and went afk or were crushed under the weight of command. it happened to zagdul. how long will it be before it happens to loquitor or another cfc autocrat
  26. [4/28/2014 7:51:57 PM] numismancer: every time this happens, corps scramble to find a cfc alliance which isn't at risk
  27. [4/28/2014 7:52:01 PM] numismancer: the line members suffer
  28. [4/28/2014 7:52:05 PM] bo.elder: [Rhaybeck - EMPIN]: my question would be in what specific way would this meta-alliance be different than the heat death of any other alliance? Is this alliance to be where old alliances come to die?
  29. [4/28/2014 7:52:05 PM] numismancer: and the cycle continues again
  30. [4/28/2014 7:52:25 PM] numismancer: well, there's me in charge at the top
  31. [4/28/2014 7:52:32 PM] numismancer: using our best practices from gsf
  32. [4/28/2014 7:52:46 PM] numismancer: administered by proven directors from gents and possibly l3f as well
  33. [4/28/2014 7:53:07 PM] numismancer: you are welcome to place bets on me flaming out and quitting, but if that happens you're all fucked anyway
  34. [4/28/2014 7:53:38 PM] numismancer: and if you can't rely on me as the existing coalition leader, then odds are your corp is looking to leave the cfc already anyway! ;p
  35. [4/28/2014 7:54:01 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Is the idea here for this to be an alliance to catch those caught up in unravelling alliances and allow them to form new alliances or stay here?
  36. [4/28/2014 7:54:35 PM] bo.elder: You have show remarkable ... resilience.
  37. [4/28/2014 7:54:53 PM] Michael Gilbert: what about the personal investment of owning sov, when you take that away, you take away your members caring about your corp and alliance on a certain level
  38. [4/28/2014 7:54:56 PM] numismancer: there is no ability for the consoldiating alliances to form new alliances, as there's no 'new' top-level leadership showing up in eve
  39. [4/28/2014 7:55:06 PM] numismancer: if the top-level leadership existed in the collapsing alliance, it wouldn't have collapsed
  40. [4/28/2014 7:55:14 PM] numismancer: so no, it's not an incubator for new alliances
  41. [4/28/2014 7:56:15 PM] numismancer: if that leadership existed you'd all be rallying behind Inspiring New Leader #47, yet instead what we see in the scope of eve is a handful of grizzled warlords and ever-decreasing numbers of the kespers and bobby atlases of the game
  42. [4/28/2014 7:56:39 PM] numismancer: i don't mean to say kesper = bobby atlas in terms of quality, however "autocrat who gets crushed under the burden of command" is a recurring theme
  43. [4/28/2014 7:57:01 PM] numismancer: that will only accelerate as these entities become more complex and our wars become more intense
  44. [4/28/2014 7:57:13 PM] Nova Rain: So essentially you're looking at scaling GSF top leadership and general structures into another alliance, but creating something that doesn't necessarily have the cultural associations that GSF does.
  45. [4/28/2014 7:57:43 PM] numismancer: and to create a certain minimum standard of cfc alliance management quality in the process
  46. [4/28/2014 7:58:05 PM] numismancer: let's say we call the thing a boring name for now: The State, Clusterswarm, whatever. Working Title.
  47. [4/28/2014 7:58:19 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: It's hard to spread the load out far enough and retain executive control. Frankly you're the only one who's been able to manage that concept well over the long term without burnout.
  48. [4/28/2014 7:58:22 PM] Nova Rain: I've occasionally wished I could consolidate corporations for similar reasons.
  49. [4/28/2014 7:58:23 PM] numismancer: If your CFC alliance is getting beaten by the meta-alliance for the coalition as a whole, that's a warning sign
  50. [4/28/2014 7:59:16 PM] numismancer: we're not reinventing the wheel here, basically. we'd likely have a 'minimal state' alliance with those of you interested and capable in running it. merely being a ceo wouldn't give you any say in things unless your corp had proper pap stats
  51. [4/28/2014 7:59:32 PM] numismancer: just like in gsf, ceos are stakeholders, but can be 'real' directors if they do more than simply lead a corp
  52. [4/28/2014 7:59:58 PM] numismancer: of course, the whole thing might collapse in disaster, but there will be relatively minimal drama since i'll have the keys to the big red button
  53. [4/28/2014 8:00:13 PM] numismancer: if the concept fails we just re-home every interested corp to another cfc entity
  54. [4/28/2014 8:00:42 PM] bo.elder: My concern, mainly, is that GENTs had a certain culture ... classiness, respect, remarkably little drama for what was a fairly large alliance ... I'm concerned about how the blending of other corps from other less-than-ideal alliances might dilute what was once a great group of classy corps...
  55. [4/28/2014 8:01:06 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Many of us don't see ourselves fitting culturally into other cfc alliances.
  56. [4/28/2014 8:01:31 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Which is why we are interested in this concept
  57. [4/28/2014 8:02:00 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: And what he said
  58. [4/28/2014 8:02:37 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: We've worked wth other alliances before, 'I cant see why we cant now
  59. [4/28/2014 8:02:55 PM] Nova Rain: L3F were fairly chill when we worked with them in Vale, I wouldn't be too worried about them.
  60. [4/28/2014 8:03:12 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Agreed
  61. [4/28/2014 8:03:26 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Agreed
  62. [4/28/2014 8:04:09 PM] Nova Rain: But GENTS has always had a... cultural idea that was different than the typical CFC alliance. Not everyone bought into it, but it was one of the major pieces of identity we had, and it's what kept a lot of the people together.
  63. [4/28/2014 8:04:14 PM] numismancer: the culture of GENTS is worth mourning
  64. [4/28/2014 8:04:14 PM] Nova Rain: To be fair, it's also what drove quite a few away.
  65. [4/28/2014 8:04:35 PM] numismancer: however, that alliance had a leadership breakdown and vacuum which lasted months
  66. [4/28/2014 8:04:56 PM] numismancer: if someone wanted to step up to preserve and uphold that, to be a true autocrat, they would have done so
  67. [4/28/2014 8:04:58 PM] numismancer: but they didn't
  68. [4/28/2014 8:05:01 PM] numismancer: which is why we are here, now
  69. [4/28/2014 8:05:14 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Pure Blind/Branch era LAWN was extremely similar. Im not discreditiing GENTS culture, but it can be recreated
  70. [4/28/2014 8:05:44 PM] numismancer: in fact, I'm entirely aware that many GENTS ceos blame each other and have been staring daggers at one another
  71. [4/28/2014 8:05:52 PM] numismancer: which is part of the problem
  72. [4/28/2014 8:06:11 PM] numismancer: thankfully I have no problems behaving as an autocrat or a tyrant and just murderzoning anyone who brings up the first hint of drama
  73. [4/28/2014 8:06:16 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: There are pieces of the gents puzzle worth keeping. The overall maturity and attention to detail in fighting with precision
  74. [4/28/2014 8:06:23 PM] numismancer: i suspect that someone will try to test this within the first three months of the meta-alliance
  75. [4/28/2014 8:07:03 PM] numismancer: once their brains are splattered across the room, everyone will quickly dustbin any fantasies they may have had about any presumed 'skill' at leadership i have, but they will also stop causing bullshit drama
  76. [4/28/2014 8:07:06 PM] bo.elder: Can you speak to the issue of 'recruitment' of corps to this alliance? How will other corps be added to this meta-alliance, if at all?
  77. [4/28/2014 8:07:22 PM] numismancer: we don't want the meta-alliance to be a poaching tool
  78. [4/28/2014 8:07:27 PM] numismancer: ie, your corps can recruit normally
  79. [4/28/2014 8:07:44 PM] numismancer: but it's only to add corps to the alliance when there's a conflict with another cfc entity or an implosion/shutdown
  80. [4/28/2014 8:08:05 PM] numismancer: example: corp wants to leave SMA or RZR but doesn't have another CFC alliance lined up yet. They approach us to join the meta-alliance. This is fine.
  81. [4/28/2014 8:08:20 PM] numismancer: example: meta-alliance tries to recruit other corps. This is not allowed, and will not occur
  82. [4/28/2014 8:08:34 PM] bo.elder: got it...
  83. [4/28/2014 8:08:59 PM] numismancer: I suspect that in some cases corps will try to just cycle through the meta-alliance, but if it is well-led and successful it will likely end up with a loyal membership core
  84. [4/28/2014 8:09:18 PM] numismancer: if I didn't believe that I wouldn't really bother with the project
  85. [4/28/2014 8:10:07 PM] Nova Rain: Are there any seeding entities being looked at aside from GENTS and L3F?
  86. [4/28/2014 8:10:31 PM] Nova Rain: I suspect a lot of the cultural concerns from GENTS folks will get alleviated if they've got a solid presence early on.
  87. [4/28/2014 8:10:31 PM] numismancer: Not at the moment no
  88. [4/28/2014 8:10:43 PM] numismancer: it's pretty much just GENTS + possibly L3F
  89. [4/28/2014 8:10:50 PM] numismancer: the current draft structure is this
  90. [4/28/2014 8:12:13 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Well this chat be persistent? I need to do rl.
  91. [4/28/2014 8:12:30 PM] numismancer: 1. i'm in charge. however i won't really be bossing the org around much. it'll be run much like gsf, with heavy delegation.
  92. 2. there will likely be a trusted highly-skilled administrator who has nothing to do with goonswarm who really manages shit day-to-day. Ideally, that's Carneros
  93. 3. there will be a team-based directorate structure pulling skilled folks from your corps. You may be in this, as a ceo. You may not be.
  94. 4. Corps which pass the usual pap standards will be allowed a stakeholder seat in the directorate channel, just like in gsf
  95. [4/28/2014 8:12:34 PM] Nova Rain: Chance: Yes.
  96. [4/28/2014 8:12:40 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: K
  97. [4/28/2014 8:13:16 PM] Nova Rain: Do you have that director structure partially in place yet? There's a score of folks running around who seem to think they're in it already.
  98. [4/28/2014 8:13:29 PM] numismancer: i make structures, then i fill slots
  99. [4/28/2014 8:13:37 PM] numismancer: i'm sure many people think a lot of things
  100. [4/28/2014 8:13:46 PM] numismancer: they always do in a power vacuum until the music stops
  101. [4/28/2014 8:13:52 PM] Nova Rain: And related to PAP standards, do you guys care about absolute or relative participation? GENTS tended to have a fairly alt heavy culture that interacted poorly with relative participation metrics.
  102. [4/28/2014 8:14:04 PM] Symbiotes: :)
  103. [4/28/2014 8:14:16 PM] numismancer: it's up to me to decide, usually we pick a baseline corp as an example and compare
  104. [4/28/2014 8:14:25 PM] numismancer: i'm not worried about pap crap until 2-3 months in
  105. [4/28/2014 8:14:31 PM] numismancer: step one is to get the org itself working
  106. [4/28/2014 8:14:42 PM] numismancer: step four or five is to ensure the corps are pulling their weight
  107. [4/28/2014 8:14:42 PM] Nova Rain: Fair, I just had no idea how GSF worked internally on taht front.
  108. [4/28/2014 8:15:03 PM] numismancer: all stats ultimately come down to the boss making a call about who's been naughty or nice for christmas
  109. [4/28/2014 8:15:17 PM] numismancer: numbers help but aren't everything
  110. [4/28/2014 8:15:30 PM] numismancer: you can have shit pap but if your corp runs all the jf services you'll get slack
  111. [4/28/2014 8:15:44 PM] numismancer: you can have great pap but if you're a disruptive shitlord it's commissar time
  112. [4/28/2014 8:15:51 PM] numismancer: that's how i handle it in gsf anyway
  113. [4/28/2014 8:19:13 PM] Nova Rain: Any sense of how funding/reimbursement/taxation and similar financial fun will get handled in the new alliance?
  114. [4/28/2014 8:19:30 PM] Nova Rain: Treat them like a normal CFC member and allocate space for them to manage, or some other system?
  115. [4/28/2014 8:20:16 PM] numismancer: we're looking to minimize duplication and redundancy and piggyback off gsf infra wherever possible
  116. [4/28/2014 8:20:29 PM] numismancer: ideally the people in the meta-alliance will be able to focus wholeheartedly on war and murder
  117. [4/28/2014 8:20:41 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Yeah
  118. [4/28/2014 8:20:44 PM] numismancer: draft plan involves using gsf reimb structure to cover line member srp
  119. [4/28/2014 8:21:05 PM] numismancer: that cuts out 90% of alliance expenses besides sov
  120. [4/28/2014 8:21:14 PM] numismancer: we're not expecting to have a massive sov footprint for this alliance either
  121. [4/28/2014 8:21:32 PM] numismancer: people need reaction farm space or whatever for their towers but i don't think you're going to see the meta-alliance blanketing vale
  122. [4/28/2014 8:21:55 PM] numismancer: because it's a risk that the whole thing won't work - we must assume a risk of failure for the first few months
  123. [4/28/2014 8:22:01 PM] numismancer: so i'd see a few consts to start
  124. [4/28/2014 8:22:13 PM] numismancer: thus minimal fuel bills, minimal infra, minimal financial needs
  125. [4/28/2014 8:24:38 PM] Nova Rain: Quite a few GENTS corporations have "alt corps" to handle more fine grained access control for towers and similar infrastructure; is there any similar structure in GSF that could map to that?
  126. [4/28/2014 8:24:55 PM] Nova Rain: Or do you just handle them as minimal PAP corps that thus don't get stakeholder status?
  127. [4/28/2014 8:25:40 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: One thing that helps give a sense of cohesion is a home to protect. If we are dotted all over without a defined region to defend it might be hard to mount fleets and develop cohes I n
  128. [4/28/2014 8:25:55 PM] numismancer: yeah we don't count altcorps
  129. [4/28/2014 8:25:59 PM] numismancer: gsf has like 200 corps in it now
  130. [4/28/2014 8:26:08 PM] numismancer: 95% of which are sub-20-person altcorps for tower bullshit
  131. [4/28/2014 8:26:49 PM] numismancer: the presumed home region of the meta-alliance to begin with is vale
  132. [4/28/2014 8:27:05 PM] numismancer: we want to minimize the disruption of the gents situation
  133. [4/28/2014 8:27:15 PM] bo.elder: that is encouraging...
  134. [4/28/2014 8:27:21 PM] numismancer: and the eastern border needs to be defended anyway
  135. [4/28/2014 8:28:15 PM] numismancer: against what, god only knows, but we can't afford a weak flank
  136. [4/28/2014 8:32:14 PM] Nova Rain: Any expecations of member corporations aside from minimal drama and PAP stats?
  137. [4/28/2014 8:32:33 PM] numismancer: not really
  138. [4/28/2014 8:32:42 PM] Michael Gilbert: When do we have to decide?
  139. [4/28/2014 8:32:45 PM] numismancer: "kill shit in fleets", same as anything else in the cfc
  140. [4/28/2014 8:32:55 PM] numismancer: there's no deadline, we're sketching shit out here
  141. [4/28/2014 8:33:02 PM] numismancer: if you like/dislike a thing, say so
  142. [4/28/2014 8:33:04 PM] numismancer: or don't
  143. [4/28/2014 8:33:17 PM] Michael Gilbert: no, if it works it sounds great
  144. [4/28/2014 8:33:19 PM] numismancer: if you'd really like X, Y or Z to be involved, say so, or don't
  145. [4/28/2014 8:33:43 PM] numismancer: basically with the core org we have to set the 'pillars' in a way most corps buy into
  146. [4/28/2014 8:34:06 PM] numismancer: if you think this is too much bullshit and want to take your corp to a different cfc alliance, that's cool too
  147. [4/28/2014 8:34:14 PM] numismancer: in practce gents has titans in build
  148. [4/28/2014 8:34:26 PM] numismancer: we're not likely to see this alliance created until at least after fanfest in an in-game sense
  149. [4/28/2014 8:34:59 PM] numismancer: we are going to set this thing up though, because gents is not going to be the last cfc alliance to suffer from entropy
  150. [4/28/2014 8:35:17 PM] numismancer: this shit is going to happen again and i don't like seeing our people left in the lurch because their leadership happened to flame out or vanish
  151. [4/28/2014 8:37:42 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: I'm worried about developing a compelling narrative aside from "so you are homeless, come fly with hobo alliance"
  152. [4/28/2014 8:38:45 PM] numismancer: if you pitch it to your members like that, that's what they'll hear
  153. [4/28/2014 8:39:23 PM] numismancer: if the idea of marching in lockstep to war under gsf best practices and infrastructure with me giving orders doesn't interest your people, then it doesn't
  154. [4/28/2014 8:39:34 PM] numismancer: and you can find them a place in another alliance without issue, no doubt
  155. [4/28/2014 8:40:06 PM] numismancer: i don't expect everyone to buy into it, and i'm not going to try to get 100% buyin as a result
  156. [4/28/2014 8:42:37 PM] Nova Rain: Nullsec PvP without needing to run the supporting infrastructure or financial empire is definitely appealing.
  157. [4/28/2014 8:44:34 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Same for me
  158. [4/28/2014 8:44:58 PM] numismancer: it may be different in other cfc orgs, but my goal is always a relentless focus upon socialized warfare > all else
  159. [4/28/2014 8:45:00 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: I can run fleets again. Not manage towers
  160. [4/28/2014 8:45:17 PM] numismancer: i don't give a shit about industry or profits or, most especially, entitled supercap builders
  161. [4/28/2014 8:45:35 PM] numismancer: the whole idea is to let the line pilot fly for free in war, with no handicaps or grinding
  162. [4/28/2014 8:46:12 PM] numismancer: if you want to do any of that other crap at a corp level that's great but don't expect it to be put up on a pedestal in any alliance i have a hand in
  163. [4/28/2014 8:59:31 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Moons and such for those who want to do goo? How will that be handled?
  164. [4/28/2014 10:58:43 PM] *** Siggon.k added Attoy [ybox] ***
  165. [4/28/2014 10:59:51 PM] Leandro Rebosio: Hello there o/
  166. [4/28/2014 11:51:59 PM] numismancer: goo would be handled the same as gsf: all valuable moons are alliance propertly (since srp would be handled by gsf, probably gsf moons) but non-r64 moons are a whatever freeforall
  167. [3:16:56 AM] *** Call ended, duration 7:50:38 ***
  168. [3:16:56 AM] *** Missed group call. ***
  169. [3:37:12 AM] Endie H: What are the group calls for?
  170. [3:37:51 AM] Endie H: Someone fat fingering?
  171. [3:38:11 AM] Symbiotes: I'm thinking someone pressing buttons and no real goal, we had people mic check but nothing really spoken I believe
  172. [3:38:22 AM] Endie H: Gotcha, thanks
  173. [3:40:36 AM] Symbiotes: We had people learn where the mute mic button was though, so all in all pretty steep learning curve, very eve-like experience ^^
  174. [5:18:08 AM] Gigaplex: [Kim Briggs - ARMA.] So i understood it correct, that the new alliance won't take all of GENTS sov in Vale?
  175. [5:42:58 AM] endie.h: Unless something radical and unnanounced happened overnight, no decisions have been made on that at all
  176. [5:43:15 AM] endie.h: Scope is still entirely up for discussion
  177. [1:19:22 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: What needs doing to help get this off the ground?
  178. [1:57:46 PM] twiggermeister: A name.
  179. [2:51:51 PM] Siggon.k: name, and fanfest to be over
  180. [2:52:25 PM] Siggon.k: nothing stopping y'all from brainstorming or asking questions giving feedback and such
  181. [7:07:24 PM] Nova Rain: One of my worries around this idea is maintaining a certain... cultural isolation from GSF. I can't speak for everyone, but folks in SRNE at least have no great desire to join SA culture, or we'd have joined GSF in the first place. Is that something you're interested in forcing (either way), or something where you'd be inclined to wait and see what developed?
  182. [7:07:58 PM] Nova Rain: As a concrete question tied to that, would this new alliance have forum sections / Jabber channels / ping groups / etc distinct from GSF?
  183. [7:12:35 PM] Nova Rain: Unrelatedly, what sort of critical mass of people or corporations do you think is necessary for this to have a chance at success?
  184. [8:35:01 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: I respect that cultural isolation may be important to some, but it is not something that worries me in the slightest. We can maintain our own visions while still feeding the meatgrinder that is the GSF meta.
  185. [8:37:05 PM] Nova Rain: Not quite sure if we're talking about the same sort of culture.
  186. [8:37:57 PM] Nova Rain: Deploying with GSF (and the rest of the CFC) doesn't worry me in the slightest, we've been doing that for years.
  187. [8:38:29 PM] Nova Rain: But contrast GSF forums or comms with what GENTS had -- that's the sort of culture I'm referring to.
  188. [8:39:13 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: I am too. Basically I'm implying that we can be pseudo-goons and still provide our better posting standards at the same time.
  189. [8:39:53 PM] Nova Rain: Bluntly, if my dudes had wanted GSF culture, they'd be in GSF already.
  190. [8:41:52 PM] shrapnel2389 FARSC: My/ my corps views are in line with what Nova is saying as well. They hope for distinction from Goons, and have no issue working closely with them.
  191. [8:42:48 PM] shrapnel2389 FARSC: We love the do it right or dont do it mentality GENTS has
  192. [8:43:13 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: And like I said, I totally respect that. But this is a disparity that will need to be addressed. Because its fair to say, at least in the interim, we will need GSF culture to use as a foundation. The image we create for ourselves beyond that is up to us.
  193. [8:43:39 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: My corp has no problems with a 100% full integration with "The Goon Way", and that is where we differ from others
  194. [8:46:47 PM] Nova Rain: I'm not sure we'd need to bootstrap with GSF culture -- honestly, I think that would be doomed to failure if you're trying to seed it mostly with GENTS.
  195. [8:47:33 PM] Nova Rain: Being part of the CFC but explicitly not part of "Goon culture" came up during GENTS recruitment as a selling point for most corporations.
  196. [8:50:38 PM] Nova Rain: In any case, I'm curious about the intentions here, and what concrete actions would be used to push in the desired direction (if any).
  197. [8:54:32 PM] Michael Gilbert: The cultural separation that you speak of Nova, would be something we would want to keep as well.
  198. [8:55:53 PM] shrapnel2389 FARSC: I'm okay with using Goon "foundations" to start this thing up. but are we going to be beaten back into line when we start to evolve away from it.
  199. [8:57:17 PM] Nova Rain: Well, this sort of culture is really a product of the people you have and the existing environment they're placed in.
  200. [8:57:56 PM] Nova Rain: If you seed this alliance with GENTS and give them a separation from GSF culture, I suspect you'll wind up with attitudes that look more like what you see in GENTS than GSF.
  201. [8:58:22 PM] shrapnel2389 FARSC: jsut what i was gonna say nova
  202. [9:01:37 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Has anyone talked to the new b-HS boys?
  203. [9:03:42 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Not yet no
  204. [9:04:09 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: They'd probably be good to bring over if we all go
  205. shrapnel2389 FARSC
  206. Senshi [ohcrp]
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