Zee Luna 'debate'

Strixursus — Today at 4:14 PM
It's really neat, but...  The wings are, really offputting to me.  I'm a massive anatomy nerd so the chiropteran-handwing-branching-off-pterosaur-wingspar is...  <_>;
[4:15 PM]
It's otherwise absolutely gorgeous, but the wing anatomy sadly kills it for me ;-;

Caitmonster — Today at 6:04 PM
I guess if it's as modder friendly as before, you could always look into folks making anatomy-accurate wings of some kind or another. :V the back detailing is just... hnng. Nice

Strixursus — Today at 6:19 PM
I KNOW
[6:20 PM]
Which is why the...  I can't say  it anyway else but frankly bizarre anatomy of the wings kills me.  BEcause EVERYTHING ELSE IS SO MUCH WANT

Zee — Today at 6:23 PM
the dragon looks based upon reign of fire which has through history been a very..... big topic of argument.... I mean at the end of the day it's a creature that doesn't exist sooooo... we really can't say what they'd really look like. only base it on real animals of today.

Strixursus — Today at 6:31 PM
The problem is that even in an animal of normal flight-capable size there is no way those wings could actually work which is why it skeezes me out so bad
[6:34 PM]
It's, weird I guess, but I kinda like, run it through a mental stress-test simulation and just, yellow and red flashing joints everywhere <.>
[6:39 PM]
I fully admit this is just my own foibles and fixation on biomechanics, personal stuff

Zee — Today at 6:40 PM
we really have no idea what these creatures would evolve from is the problem, which means we have no way of knowing that. Earth's nature all evolved from 1 species with 4 limbs and as evolution went on, whatever made each species that evolved from it do better, it was evolved in. ie horses had 4 toes and evolved just one and a hoof structure to best aid it in running in semi swampy grasslands, yet big cats evolved claws to grip into the ground for pretty much the same purpose. if dragons evolved in this world we can't say exactly what structures they themselves would evolve.

If they evolved to today, wyverns would be the most likely, but we don't know if they'd evolve multi digit pterodactyl wings or if they'd evolve a hand with a pinky being the only wing digit there is. Traditional dragons would have had to evolve from a 6 limbed creature, which didn't make it in the natural selection that there was at the time that our common 4 limbed ancestor. So we really have no idea what would come of dragons through stages of evolution. If they'd actually be herbavores, what their wing shape would be, or even what size they'd be if they did exist.... not even if they made it to present day.
[6:41 PM]
so for all we know, that wing structure could be what they would have. hell, zee's wings could be a thing or even no wings at all and instead just weapons that are remnants of said wings

Strixursus — Today at 6:44 PM
Except, there is very much a predictor for how wing structures form, due to the physics of aerodynamics, as well as precursory structures.  Again, I understand the design being an aesthetic choice, just as I'd said before, my own fixations with being an anatomy nerd and knowledge of biomechanics makes the design offputting(edited)

Zee — Today at 6:49 PM
a predictor based upon what we've seen in animals today. but that's the problem. it only takes what we've seen from structures in nature from what we have discovered in nature.... which seems to change every other month based upon scientific discoveries of dinosaurs' evolutions into birds. hell, we can't even make up our mind on if the t-rex had feathers, so who's to say that the pterodactyl couldn't evolve into exactly what was designed here? we don't know, because the basis of evolution prediction is widely incomplete due to enormous gaps in evolution in creatures. Hell we're finding fish and birds that were thought to be extinct because evolution weeded them out.

Strixursus — Today at 6:54 PM
Any mutations that would lead to digital branching like that would be almost guaranteed to prevent flight due to malformation.  Evolution is not some magical woo-y process that anything can happen, for any form of mutation to succeed it has to be at the very least benign, if not beneficial; that kind of anatomy is not feasible in the least

Zee — Today at 6:55 PM
if that were true, wouldn't bees have been weeded out from evolutionary malformation?

Strixursus — Today at 6:55 PM
Oh boy, that lovely little aphorism
[6:56 PM]
The little acorn about 'bees can't fly by known laws of aerodynamics' has kinda been disproven for decades
[6:57 PM]
Look, all I was trying to say is that personally the design is offputting because of my own predisposition for preferring more biomechanically sound designs.  If others like it it's fine, I'm not going try and stop anyone else from liking it!
[6:58 PM]
I was only stating a personal preference <_>

Zee — Today at 7:01 PM
because their body to wing ratio would be categorized as a malformation, yet they still are able to fly. we don't know what would happen to a dragon with this wing structure. we don't know the factors at play. it's a fantasy creature that doesn't exist. we don't know the structure of the muscles, if the bones were made of a hard jelly or if gods forbid, the spines are actually some weird non keratin formation. we don't even know if they'd fly "backwards". Evolution has definitely beaten what we had thought before of some animals, who's to say that structure wouldn't work in some evolutionary circumstances? We don't know because they don't exist.

(I'm presenting a debate. not saying you're trying to sway anyone. you're good .v.)

Strixursus — Today at 7:12 PM
I wasn't really signing up for a debate!  I was just trying to state a personal preference and give reasoning it behind it, not asking to be challenged on it!  I admit a tendency and predisposition to try and correct misinformation, and probably pursued more than I should have.  But I'm finding myself feeling stressed and having any of my own points being utterly brushed aside with 'it's a fantasy creature'.  At this point I'm, just going to disengage here and say that I'm no going to continue on this tack, and am just, going to dip from talking here for now.

Zee — Today at 7:19 PM
dear i'm going to say that if a friendly debate that you responded to stresses you out because you feel your points are being brushed aside (and kindof started with... "The problem is that even in an animal of normal flight-capable size there is no way those wings could actually work which is why it skeezes me out so bad. It's, weird I guess, but I kinda like, run it through a mental stress-test simulation and just, yellow and red flashing joints everywhere <.>") stresses you out, then maybe come off of the high horse in your knowledge?

A debate is there to raise questions and reasonable arguments to the contrary. It's there for the imagination to glide to "What if this? what if that? Could this work in a manner if this were the case?". It isn't there to attack you or what you know, it is there to raise questions.

If something like this stresses you out... maybe don't lead into it?