neuroc
#1577


NujabesLast Friday at 8:17 AM
A note from Nujabes:
Hello, Toxic! Once again I would like to congratulate everyone on our Ragnaros kill this week. We have progressed amazingly well as a guild and I’m proud of everyone’s effort to get us where we are after only 8 weeks since launch.
I know many of you have been asking about loot distribution and what system we will be using going forward so I’d like to finally make an official statement as GM.

After much discussion among the officers, we've decided that we will be sticking with an LC (loot council) system rather than using DKP. Our reasoning for this decision is that we would like to promote participation in daily guild activities (i.e: helping with attunements, farming mats, etc...) rather than have people just show up for raids and log until our next raid date. DKP, over time, turns into a participation ribbon so to speak. “Hey I show up to raid and get my points so I should get loot first!” We want this guild to succeed in every way and for every accomplishment to feel like a team effort. If people are just logging for raid, that kind of defeats the purpose and is not what classic WoW is about. Now we understand people have real commitments and can’t be on all the time but even little contributions are noted and appreciated.
Here is what we take into account for Loot Council:

-Individual contribution (performance, preparedness, attitude)
-Teamwork ( following instructions, helping others)
-Tenure

Here's a hypothetical example of how it would work:
   Sticker is on 24/7, attends all of the raids, but rarely assists anyone with anything and doesn't come prepared. Cronok has a limited schedule due to work/life commitments. Cronok is always assisting others, comes to raids with consumes, and is a top performer in his class. LC is going to be biased to Cronok for a big-ticket item over Sticker due to his contribution.

    If you have any questions feel free to ask any of the officers. I know some of you may be disappointed with our decision but please know everyone will get loot if they continue to help and show up for raids. Classic WoW isn’t retail where you get purples every week. RNGesus may not smile upon you one particular week but rest assured gear will come in time.

Regards,
Nujabes
@everyone

ChapoToday at 1:46 PM
I fear the wording of this statement will turn off certain people in this guild.  You are essentially saying that one must perform above and beyond showing up to raids. I think a solid theory would be that whoever shows up to participate in raids has the right to roll on gear. What incentive will no-name non best in slot guild members have to join raids if they know that the first items are going to friends / officers / people who top meters first?

Does it make sense for the loot council to give EVERYONE a chance to roll on things, no matter what they contributed outside of the raid? Would it be better for morale if the people that joined this guild later than others have the same chance at an item in raids as an officer?

Shouldn't the 'loot council' channel be a TEXT channel that the entire guild can see, so we know who is making arguments for or against our ability to roll on loot? If not, could the 'loot council' be a random set of 4 officers and a random set of 4 members every raid? This would increase transparency and let more people understand why certain decisions are made. The 'judgement based on attitude' portion might be the worst part. Should I write some jokes? Would you prefer if I only typed in emojis? How does this attitude portion fare for those who do not have mics?

Almost everyone I have talked to in discord about this has said "every guild I've been in uses DKP and it worked."  Can you elaborate on why we are not a DKP oriented guild? It gives incentive to all guild members to show up for raids knowing that their work is being logged.

I suggest to anyone that reads this: If you disagree with the way loot is distributed, you have the power to change it. If there aren't enough people to go on raids, there's no loot. If there's no loot to distribute, maybe the loot distribution model changes, or at the very least becomes more transparent and less arbitrary.

FingersToday at 2:46 PM
That's not really what he's saying.  Everyone who shows up will get loot.  Though It's more about being a team and a family.  Helping out others and being more involved.  Why get loot if you're going to only be in this guild to raid, get loot and then be gone.   Which I don't believe a lot of people are this way nor are they insinuating this.  It's a hypathetical theme.  COreect me if I'm wrong.
Correct*

StickerToday at 3:45 PM
Chapo, I appreciate your input on our loot distribution method. You certainly have some good arguments, but I think you miss the intent of the loot council.

The loot council exists so we, as a group (officers & class leads), can make fair decisions with high-ticket items. This does require that everyone has some faith that the guild leadership will make the right choices, the tough decisions. I understand that for some, that notion may be hard to swallow.

Fair decisions with high-ticket items. What does that mean to you? To me it's making sure that the guy who just showed up for his first raid doesn't get that item that someone else has been waiting ages for. Are we going to guarantee anyone a specific item? Besides tanks (for now), no not really. We are going to take in consideration the metrics that were listed in the post.

To your point about giving every raider a chance to roll on any item. Let’s use a scenario with the eye of divinity (used in creating Benediction). With your way of thinking, you're saying that a priest who just hit 60 today, followed us into Molten Core, should be allowed a chance to roll on the eye? I think most would disagree with you. I sure do. I would much rather give the contributors and high performers an opportunity to win the eye over the guy who just hit 60 today.

Does DKP make sense right now? Maybe, maybe not. DKP certainly has its pro's and con's which really don't need to be discussed right now. What I can tell you is this; if we were to implement DKP, I am going to be a STRONG advocate for adding in BONUS DKP for those who go above and beyond for the guild. That could be farming for raid mats, helping others with their attunements/gearing, you name it. Someone like me will be swimming in DKP! I think examples of selflessness and teamwork should be rewarded. That can be done via LC or bonus DKP.
At the end of the day, the reality of it all is that no system will work for everyone. Please keep voicing your opinion. We need that constructive criticism/feedback. We’re not infallible and I think you'll find we’re open to suggestion.

StickerToday at 4:26 PM
Chapo, one big point I failed to address; You've insinuated that the loot council is giving items to friends, friends, officers, etc. Where is that coming from? You have no evidence to support that claim. I challenge you to bring up any instance over the past few weeks where we specifically gave the "good ol' boy" hookup.

I can give you an example of where I made a mistake with MC loot. On our first MC run I let all priests /roll on the gloves of prophecy. A shadow priest won those. That was a mistake that I can't take back but I've learned from.

Like I said previously, no system is going to work perfectly for everyone. All we ask is that you respect our decisions and if you take issue with it, reach out to us to have a discussion about it! I