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- Sunday, March 03, 2013
- Shoe: gg bitch
- Shoe: ey
- Shoe: quit banning me nigga
- +fwd Moose: Ey
- Shoe: month ban wtf
- Shoe: i dont even go on the forums LOL
- +fwd Moose: enjoy
- +fwd Moose: then you won't miss it
- Shoe: yo y u so butthurt seriously
- Shoe: not even trying to insult right now
- +fwd Moose: Also if this keeps up you're looking at getting everyone in that group temp-banned from play for sandbagging and poor sportsmanship
- +fwd Moose: Don't insult my league
- Shoe: aint no1 insulting your league
- Shoe: you're so blind to shit that goes on lol
- +fwd Moose: This shit you ringlead is an insult
- Shoe: how so
- +fwd Moose: We get complaints all the time about this
- +fwd Moose: Kai's right and she gets about half the complaints we do
- +fwd Moose: about you guys
- Shoe: wait
- Shoe: so getting complaints = validity?
- +fwd Moose: pretending to be a zero-skill iron team looking to get into S10
- +fwd Moose: one or two isn't
- +fwd Moose: 7 or 8 is
- Shoe: so if i complain constantly about something with childish merit
- Shoe: yo
- Shoe: how does that harm either party in logical standards
- Shoe: can you tell me lol
- Shoe: i'm actually prepared to argue on a logical basis
- Shoe: not just on emotional appeal
- Shoe: can you tell me?
- +fwd Moose: I've told you what I need to tell you
- Shoe: yo, but it doesn't make any logical sense
- Shoe: as i said, i'm ready to argue from a logical perspective, not an emotional one
- Shoe: you preach respect, yet you won't give me the respect of a real explanation
- +fwd Moose: Explain away
- Shoe: explain away what
- Shoe: specify and i will
- +fwd Moose: why are you telling teams that you're a zeroskill Iron team?
- +fwd Moose: then scrim them and roll them
- Shoe: you better post this on ugc
- Shoe: as a full explanation
- Shoe: because people don't seem to understand what's happening here
- Shoe: it first began as a zeroskill iron team
- Shoe: cause we were fucking around on a friday night
- +fwd Moose: With who on it
- Shoe: lol
- Shoe: is your only motive to ban people?
- Shoe: ban people for something you can't ban them for
- +fwd Moose: No, I'm not banning anyone from gameplay tonight
- Shoe: tonight?
- +fwd Moose: Continue your story
- Shoe: your argument is
- Shoe: it's disrespectful because we're telling people we're a zerksill iron team
- +fwd Moose: No no no, keep telling me why you made NBK
- Shoe: and it's disrespectful to scrim and roll them
- Shoe: k
- Shoe: NBK is just for fun
- Shoe: they're just scrims
- Shoe: if I wanted to play people from ETF2L, then NBK is the same concept
- Shoe: it's basically if we're bored, we'll get an
- Shoe: NBK
- Shoe: like lobbies
- Shoe: i prefer tf2 in this order
- Shoe: matches>scrims>pug>nbk>lobbies>pubs
- Shoe: in essence NBK doesn't do anything harmful
- Shoe: the only thing that makes it harmful is the stupidity of the people that get scrimmed
- Shoe: that's an explanation of NBKL
- +fwd Moose: Then why do you bother scrimming iron teams
- Shoe: -L
- Shoe: we dont lol
- Shoe: in the beginning we played an iron team
- Shoe: and it was horrible
- Shoe: i've been getting high silver/gold teams
- Shoe: because rolling over iron, isnt fun lol
- Shoe: as i said, you see ALOT of emotional appeal
- Shoe: and there's no logic in them
- Shoe: it's a bunch of people complaining, that's about it
- Shoe: did you see my post about nbk ruining my life?
- Shoe: that's a parody
- Shoe: no1 gets their life ruined by getting scrimmed
- +fwd Moose: It was very thinly veiled sarcasm
- Shoe: how so
- Shoe: couldnt tell with the slaves?
- Shoe: so
- Shoe: now that you know something about nbk
- Shoe: what's your major problem with it
- Shoe: and i'll explain
- +fwd Moose: I just don't want to hear another complaint that you guys are being dishonest about what you're doing
- +fwd Moose: That's it
- Shoe: ok lol
- Shoe: you're gunna hear complaints because people are stupid
- +fwd Moose: Then be honest
- +fwd Moose: it's not very difficult
- Shoe: nah
- Shoe: here's the thing
- Shoe: if my team went into a lobby
- Shoe: let's say all of LBP went into a lobby
- Shoe: made alts
- Shoe: and pretended like they were scrubs
- Shoe: or we all went into mix or pug
- Shoe: and captained and picked my entire team
- Shoe: like many teams do
- Shoe: aka lobby stack
- +fwd Moose: I can't do anything about what you do in lobby or pug
- Shoe: isn't that theoretically causing the same damage
- Shoe: as NBK?
- +fwd Moose: Don't do it to the players in my league
- Shoe: i'm asking them for scrims
- Shoe: how's that harmful
- +fwd Moose: Scrims at what level
- Shoe: we offclass
- Shoe: we use shit weapons
- Shoe: using quick fix
- Shoe: leme get your quote
- Shoe: "and they're jerking each other off over how quickly they can roll an iron team with a combined total of a couple hundred hours in TF2"
- +fwd Moose: From what you've explained that sounds pretty much correct
- Shoe: how so
- Shoe: as i said
- Shoe: we try our hardest not to roll them
- Shoe: on a cp_steel game we gave up A at 1 minute to let them cap
- Shoe: so how's that stroking our egos?
- +fwd Moose: Most teams give up A on defense
- Shoe: you're fucking retarded lol
- +fwd Moose: relatively early
- Shoe: we defended A
- Shoe: until 1 minute
- Shoe: then we called for every1 to leave A so they can cap it
- Shoe: it's not an argument of strategy
- Shoe: but my argument is a logical objection to yours that we stroke our egos
- +fwd Moose: So you gave a team a cap on a point
- +fwd Moose: ...congrats?
- Shoe: we gave them 4 points
- +fwd Moose: I don't know
- Shoe: just so we can play it longer
- Shoe: just so we don't roll them in 2 minutes
- +fwd Moose: But you could
- Shoe: except the one game where they were 40 minutes late
- Shoe: ye
- Shoe: that was 1 of the complaints ye?
- Shoe: they were 40 mins late and we had to play u guys afterwards
- Shoe: so we 20 minuted them rather than not playing
- Shoe: but that also brings the question
- Shoe: how does it really harm a team?
- Shoe: you learn from experience, and playing better players is a far better experience than 1. not playing 2. playing bad players
- Shoe: or even 3. playing players on your own level
- Shoe: do you ever see TG scrimming gold teams much anymore?
- +fwd Moose: We wouldn't be either if I had my team online for scrims
- Shoe: so
- Shoe: you're agreeing with me
- +fwd Moose: There's a difference between playing a higher team to learn from what they were doing differently
- Shoe: that people shouldn't get mad for playing a higher team
- +fwd Moose: and playing a shit-stomping team running SCUM-level loadouts
- Shoe: NBK isn't about 9 people running with their heads between their asses
- +fwd Moose: because you don't learn anything from it
- Shoe: how so
- Shoe: you learn to play against strategies that are either
- Shoe: unconventional
- Shoe: or
- Shoe: easy enough that you should know how to counter them
- Shoe: here's a bazaar bargain argument
- Shoe: that i pulled out of thin air
- Shoe: if my sniper used bazaar bargain in an NBK
- Shoe: his damage output would be reduced
- Shoe: wouldn't you consider that a scum level loadout?>
- Shoe: so if the team can't handle
- Shoe: a lower level loadout
- Shoe: then the team should "adapt to it and transcend it"
- Shoe: therefore making them better
- Shoe: it's like a blackbelt teaching a brown how to fight by beating the shit out of him mercilessly
- Shoe: instead of throwing multiple soft kicks so the brown can learn how to adapt
- Shoe: would you say that's a correct analogy?
- Shoe: for a logical argument
- Shoe: or have you left the keyboard or are just not looking at these comments
- Shoe: guess that's the end of this conversation lol
- +fwd Moose: No, I'm just trying to figure out how to show that your logic is flawed
- Shoe: without actually using logic
- +fwd Moose: But I can't even come up with the words for how skewed your perception of it is
- Shoe: so tell me
- Shoe: please enlighten me
- Shoe: i gave you arguments supported by analogies and true statements
- Shoe: but based on your statement
- Shoe: could it also be that your statement applies to you?
- Shoe: tell you what
- Shoe: if a single person that's been nbked
- Shoe: has left your league
- Shoe: or commited suicide
- Shoe: or chopped of his own leg in protest
- Shoe: i'll stop nbking
- Shoe: otherwise the bitching against what I do is unmerited
- Shoe: i chose to have fun, and some teams that get nbked have a good attitude about it
- Shoe: some teams don't, and their bitching is unmerited
- +fwd Moose: If you're dishonest about what you are then by all means any complaints we receive are in fact merited
- +fwd Moose: and you've already told me you're not willing to tell teams that you're just a bunch of gold and plat players that want to dick around
- Shoe: so your whole argument
- Shoe: is based on the fact that I lie about what team i'm on
- Shoe: so i can get scrims?
- Shoe: is that your argument
- Shoe: cause that can be very easily broken down
- Shoe: just say yes
- +fwd Moose: I don't care what you do in the scrims themselves, but there are rules in this league pertaining to sportsmanship that I'm compelled to uphold
- Shoe: in matches
- Shoe: right?
- Shoe: is that why you can't ban me because of scrims?
- Shoe: probably a reason for that lol.
- +fwd Moose: Those rules don't pertain to only matches, disruptive or rude behavior towards our teams can be acted upon at any time if a problem persists
- Shoe: guess that argument stems in the fact
- Shoe: that a team is rude towards another
- Shoe: but let's say this
- Shoe: i nbk a team
- Shoe: and the only reason a team is mad is because they found out
- Shoe: we've had teams not find out during the game and have a good attitude about it later
- Shoe: or teams that find out in the game and still have a good attitude
- Shoe: so would it be accurate to say
- Shoe: that teams get mad and find out
- Shoe: therefore, that causes their anger?
- Shoe: would you say that's the case?
- Shoe: yo
- Shoe: wake up
- +fwd Moose: If you're not honest about the history of nbk then yeah, I'd be pretty upset
- Shoe: ok then
- Shoe: would it not logically follow
- +fwd Moose: If you said "We're a bunch of gold+ players looking to goof off with whoever"
- +fwd Moose: and people accept that and scrim you
- Shoe: listen
- Shoe: you keep repeating the dishonesty thing
- +fwd Moose: I wouldn't care if it was a bunch of valve players
- Shoe: but i'm arguing against it right now
- Shoe: ok listen
- Shoe: would it not logically follow then
- Shoe: that if the team didn't know we were a higher team, they would not be mad?
- +fwd Moose: Justify it to yourself however you like
- Shoe: i'm explaining it to you logically
- Shoe: stop thinking that nothing I say correlates
- Shoe: my arguments contain premises
- +fwd Moose: I understand what you're trying to say
- +fwd Moose: I do
- +fwd Moose: I just don't agree with it
- Shoe: what dont you agree with
- Shoe: ok leme
- Shoe: list it for you hre
- Shoe: premise 1: team gets nbked, happy when they find out after
- Shoe: prmise 2: team gets nbked, happy after they find out during
- Shoe: premise 3: team gets nbked, mad when they find out after
- Shoe: conclusion: the reason for teams getting mad is because they find out
- Shoe: conclusion: if the team doesn't know, then they wouldn't be mad
- +fwd Moose: there shouldn't be a "finding out"
- Shoe: and your issue is players' anger
- +fwd Moose: if you want to stack against low level players then go play lobbies
- Shoe: but i've said this before
- Shoe: this has almost the same concept as lobbies
- Shoe: without the negative consequences
- Shoe: one of our objectives is not the undermining of players
- Shoe: but you just told me to do that
- +fwd Moose: Negative consequences being what, you're going to get banned from Lobby? Hell, the guy hasn't even been on Steam in a couple months
- Shoe: which is directly conflicting with what you said
- Shoe: why the non-sequitur statement
- Shoe: hard to get banned from lobby
- Shoe: and doesnt correlate to the argument
- Shoe: oh another thing
- Shoe: everything we have is public
- Shoe: even the group's public
- Shoe: teams have found out before in the past
- +fwd Moose: I don't understand how anything is a negative consequence except to the teams that prepare for a scrim expecting an even and fair matchup
- Shoe: and either politely or rudely declined
- Shoe: oh that;'s anotehr thing
- Shoe: most teams aren't expecting an even and fair matchup
- Shoe: contrary to popular belief, most teams are playing the victims
- Shoe: if a silver team accepts a game vs an iron team
- Shoe: what do you think
- +fwd Moose: I don't understand why you'd advertise yourself as an iron team in the first place
- Shoe: you think the silver team wants a fair and even matchup?
- +fwd Moose: clearly you're not
- Shoe: we dont
- Shoe: not anymre atleast
- Shoe: but that's what alot of the "victims" are playing off as
- Shoe: have you never thought of me as logical?
- Shoe: do you think i jerk myself off after every game?
- Shoe: i do that before i play
- Shoe: but that's beside the point
- Shoe: the main problem here
- Shoe: is people complaining about it
- Shoe: which is what you don't want right?
- Shoe: as far as i can see logically
- Shoe: with my 'skewed' logic
- Shoe: players' complaints are due to many unmerited reasons
- Shoe: being lied to is a knee-jerk reaction to pin the blame on someone else
- Shoe: leme think of an analogy
- Shoe: ok let's say
- Shoe: A is bullying B
- Shoe: B fights back and gives A an injury
- Shoe: B is suspended for violence
- Shoe: A has faults, but B is punished
- Shoe: or in some cases, A is punished, but B is punished even more
- Shoe: because he has commited physical injury
- Shoe: but in my case
- Shoe: if the team nbked is A
- Shoe: and i am B
- Shoe: B has not caused any harm to A
- Shoe: A feels harmed, but is only gunna be feeling harmed for another 2 minutes
- Shoe: so punish B for not doing any harm whatsoever
- Shoe: even though B may have given A some attributes
- Shoe: such as playing in a scrim that increases your skill level
- Shoe: that teaches you to make better game decisions
- Shoe: what do you think
- Shoe: is that analogy logically sound
- Shoe: i'm giving you the floor here
- Shoe: ey
- Shoe: wake up
- Shoe: i havent showered in 4 days
- +fwd Moose: Wake up? I was trying to go to bed 30 minutes ago
- Shoe: was trying to shower 30 mins ago
- Shoe: you can end this by giving me a logical argument
- +fwd Moose: If the fate of the players in your group was up to me I'd tell you that if you were dishonest about your ability and we continued to receive these complaints that there would be action upon you guys. However, any decisions have to go through the admins and that may change based on what they read in this chatlog and what complaints, if any, we get in the future. If you want to goof off, then by all means goof off, but don't mislead the players of this league or your actions may be perceived as sandbagging
- Shoe: wouldnt we have to be registered to be officially sandbagging
- Shoe: or is making alts gunna be illegal
- +fwd Moose: You are registered players of this league, and playing under alts while in an official match is illegal
- Shoe: except
- Shoe: we dont play under alts...
- Shoe: even in scrims
- +fwd Moose: Good
- Shoe: o
- Shoe: so
- Shoe: you can't ban me on logical grounds
- Shoe: but can on emotional appeal?
- Shoe: i better hire a hacker to hack every team we nbk so they cant complain then
- Shoe: oh and if this gets up to the admins
- Shoe: please send them this convo
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