Philosophy is Important

ragle
the Cut Cut Cut Act.....if there other nations who want to take over America, now is the same....i invite you...you can sleep at my house....my wife will feed you....just promise to take out Trump first
17:37:18 TumblingReverie
Can I feed your wife?
17:38:01
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17:38:12 TumblingReverie
ragle, let me see if I understand what you're saying
17:38:29 TumblingReverie
You're saying the culture of America has gotten just incredibly bad, and it's time to do anything to take your country back
17:38:50 TumblingReverie
And that includes colluding with foreign governments to assassinate the democratically elected leader of the USA
17:38:51 ragle
no, the culture is fine....the government is shit....Morons Are Governing America
17:39:02 ragle
Men Are Getting Arrested
17:39:14 TumblingReverie
Manafort and Gates Arrested
17:39:24 venusNmars
:)
17:40:23 TumblingReverie
ragle, under what conditions would you support the assassination of the democratically elected leader of the USA
17:40:35 ragle
if that leader is Trump
17:40:54 ragle
i'd pull the trigger myself if my family would be taken care of financially without me for the rest of their lives
17:41:23 TumblingReverie
I agree that Donald Trump deserves to die
17:41:32 TumblingReverie
And that history will record the killer as a hero
17:41:46 Dreams2X
I think the Papadopolous testimony has Trump shitting his pants.
17:42:08 TumblingReverie
I am disappointed the CIA hasn't executed him yet
17:42:16 TumblingReverie
I thought that was a thing this country did
17:42:39 TumblingReverie
I guess they were sufficiently happy with the Mueller investigation
17:42:51 TumblingReverie
The leaks from Jan-May were probably most from the IC
17:42:55 ragle
the Mueller investigation isn't over yet
17:42:57 BlackXanthus
you know, while I'm aware that we're quite a liberal channel, let us not get ourselves on all the watch lists in one go, huh? =)
17:42:59 TumblingReverie
They stopped when Mueller was appointed
17:43:14 TumblingReverie
BlackXanthus, you want to self-censor for fear of oppression by a tyrannical state?
17:43:38 TumblingReverie
Which would gain information about this discussion of ethics, political philosophy, and human civilization through mass surveillance
17:43:44 BlackXanthus
TumblingReverie: meh. I'm not a US citizen. I'm just generally against death-threats.
17:43:55 TumblingReverie
BlackXanthus, you perceive this conversation to be a death threat
17:43:56 ragle
the bright side of a Trump Watch List is that all i have to do to evade it is list my address as Puerto Rico....Trump will NEVER find me there
17:43:57 TumblingReverie
That seems baffling
17:44:04 hashy
Lol watch lists
17:44:08 hashy
Sissies
17:44:18 TumblingReverie
BlackXanthus, imagine I said the following
17:44:22 hashy
It's America all we do is threaten each other. That's how we do things.
17:44:29 TumblingReverie
'I think that Mars should have its surface terraformed'
17:44:38 TumblingReverie
Would a reasonable conclusion be, 'Wow, why are you threatening the surface of Mars?'
17:44:41 TumblingReverie
It would not be, right
17:45:04 TumblingReverie
There are very clearly times when it is necessary to kill the sovereign, given many important ethical systems
17:45:10 TumblingReverie
It's also entirely unacceptable in some notable systems
17:45:13 BlackXanthus
TumblingReverie: it's a thin line, and It's not really up for debate. I didn't allow death threats against obama, so I won't allow them against trump.
17:45:25 TumblingReverie
Clearly, smart people in a society should talk about that from time to time, as they talk about many things
17:45:31 BlackXanthus
TumblingReverie: you can say how much of a moron you think he is or whatever, but he has the office of the president.
17:45:38 TumblingReverie
BlackXanthus, you appear unclear on the relevant case law
17:45:47 TumblingReverie
I recommend you learn about Watts v. United States
17:45:49 TumblingReverie
I can provide a citation
17:46:06 BlackXanthus
TumblingReverie: I don't actually give a stuff about case law.
17:46:14 BlackXanthus
TumblingReverie: I'm upholding my own previous ruling.
17:46:22 TumblingReverie
"the Supreme Court reversed, stating, "We agree with petitioner that his only offense here was 'a kind of very crude offensive method of stating a political opposition to the President.' Taken in context, and regarding the expressly conditional nature of the statement and the reaction of the listeners, we do not see how it could be interpreted otherwise." In a concurring opinion, William O. Douglas noted, "The Alien and Sedition Laws constituted one of our sorriest chapters; and I had thought we had done with them forever ... Suppression of speech as an effective police measure is an old, old device, outlawed by our Constitution."[55]"
17:46:27 *
Ignoring BlackXanthus
17:46:37 TumblingReverie
I ended my conversation with you, BlackXanthus, as you admitted you don't care about the topic
17:47:03 TumblingReverie
The idea that any discussion that includes 'killing the president' is a threat is based on the Alien and Sedition laws
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17:47:13 TumblingReverie
Which is considered by many jurists as the worst part of American jurisprudence
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17:47:32 ragle
BlackXanthus Trump wants to name the tax bill the Cut Cut Cut Act.....tell me that doesn't make you even a little murderous feeling
17:47:36 TumblingReverie
You can discuss 'killing the president' when that killing represents a discussion of political values, and not a credible threat
17:47:59 TumblingReverie
Your viewpoint is overruled, as you are not educated on this topic, and SCOTUS and the history of American jurisprudence is smarter than you
17:48:13 TumblingReverie
Prediction: This will mean nothing to you, as you're a member of an authoritarian culture in Christianity
17:48:22 TumblingReverie
That is, your ideology is opposed to the secular culture of our nation
17:48:36 TumblingReverie
You are allowed to continue to live here and espouse your dangerous views, though, due to the 1st Amendment
17:49:13 TumblingReverie
Only a child would freak out at discussion of killing the sovereign
17:49:20 TumblingReverie
It's just a very natural progression of basic ideas
17:49:27 TumblingReverie
1 - Hey, man, Hitler was pretty bad
17:49:40 hashy
Screw the Pres and his gestapo buddies. 1st amendment still applies just like when I get my life threatened just walking down the road
17:49:44 TumblingReverie
2 - I know, man, right. His actions had the German state kill tens of millions
17:49:58 hashy
Don't be scared bent over sissies taking it balls deep. That's exactly where they want you. Durr
17:50:01 TumblingReverie
3 - Hey, man. Killing tens of millions is pretty bad. Don't you think it would make sense to just kill Hitler?
17:50:09 TumblingReverie
4 - Yeah, man. I would have killed Hitler
17:50:20 TumblingReverie
5 - Hey, man. What do you think is the threshold for killing the sovereign? How many people do you have to kill?
17:50:32 TumblingReverie
6 - Interesting question, man. What other criteria would be sufficient?
17:50:37 TumblingReverie
Boom -- philosophy.
17:51:08 TumblingReverie
So, yes, there need to exist criteria under which our nation should kill the president
17:51:21 TumblingReverie
Ideally, we'd have rule of law that would make that unnecessary
17:51:31 TumblingReverie
And, ideally, the process that killed the president would be as robust as possible
17:51:47 TumblingReverie
However, you can easily craft scenarios where that system breaks down, and then you have to ask, What then?
17:51:52 TumblingReverie
Does the nation just collapse?
17:52:21 TumblingReverie
I think our nation should kill the president before he creates a war in North Korea
17:52:30 TumblingReverie
Ideally, I'd prefer Mueller to indict him on multiple felonies
17:52:35 TumblingReverie
And the Congress to impeach him
17:52:40 TumblingReverie
But, if that doesn't happen?
17:52:47 TumblingReverie
Do hundreds of thousands in Seoul just die?
17:53:00 TumblingReverie
Because we're afraid to have these conversations in some chatroom for fear of mass surveillance by a system which protects Donald Trump?
17:53:29 TumblingReverie
Clearly, such a system would be the enemy of the rights of humans
17:53:33 TumblingReverie
And would need to be torn down
17:53:42 TumblingReverie
And part of that destruction would be the removal of the bonds in our minds
17:54:08 TumblingReverie
So, yeah, philosophy is dangerous
17:54:16 TumblingReverie
That is why many cultures have tried to outlaw it
17:54:45
→ Forest` ([email protected]) has joined
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17:54:52 Forest`
hello
17:54:52 TumblingReverie
Because you start with 'Fuck Hitler', and then you end up in a few minutes with, "Well, what if Congress doesn't impeach Donald Trump, what would be the criteria for preventing the deaths in Seoul?"
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ⓘ Mabus set +v Forest`
17:54:54 Forest`
hi Mabus
17:55:26 TumblingReverie
To wit, philosophy is only dangerous to corrupt systems that are not based on the fullest understanding of reality