[11:57] <~Earthflame> I never did go on my Angels ramble, you're right Adri.
[11:58] <Read> Go on your Angels ramble!
[11:59] <~Earthflame> The tl;dr of the discussion so far is that Angels are harder to write than Demons. Either you need to compromise what they are (often leading to 'Angels are just as bad/worse than Demons') or... They're just not narratively useful. A purely good entity of great power isn't very interesting if they can just turn up and fix everything.
[12:00] <~Earthflame> The Dresden Files has true Good Angels, but the way they deal with them is basically restricting them from doing anything actually useful and having them as sources of exposition and the occasional plot relevant miracle.
[12:01] <Read> Oh. Interesting. Yeah. Or have be Charlie from Charlie's Angels. Helpful plot tokens. They exist. They're backing the PCs. There may be internal politics. But their agents are the PCs since people generally like being good
[12:02] <Read> I've always been interested in the idea of a shadow war between heaven and hell.
[12:02] <~Earthflame> I was reminded of a setting I worked on ages ago, Paladins of the Dark Heart. The tl;dr of it was a weird, relatively low magic fantasy world that suffered a full on invasion of demons that seemed unstoppable until a few devout Paladins slew demons and took their hearts. They gained great power, but the demon within their heart was constantly trying to corrupt and confuse them.
[12:03] <~Earthflame> The Angels were all directly involved with defending Heaven from another army of demons, meaning that humanity was left to stand alone... Apart from those who chose to bind themselves to an Angel. This isn't exactly a good thing. Humans having free will is something Angels love, the greatest work of God... But for a human to bind themselves to an Angel, they slowly lose elements of it. There
[12:03] <~Earthflame> are four orders of binding.
[12:03] <Read> Oooooh~
[12:03] <Read> Interesting.
[12:03] <Read> ....Actually.
[12:03] <Read> A great ritual, to cut off heaven from earth.
[12:03] <Read> Meaning that demons can invade.
[12:03] <Read> You can get trickles through but it's hard.
[12:04] <~Earthflame> Angels Eyes are simply watchers, through which an Angel can see the world. Eyes can see things others cannot, but their gaze bears the weight of Angelic judgement. It makes other people uncomfortable and tends to isolate the Eyes.
[12:04] <Read> And hte crux of the quest is to undo it so Heaven can SMITE EVIL!
[12:04] <Read> *nods*
[12:05] <~Earthflame> The second order is the Mouths, where a mortal gives control of their speech to an Angel. They can speak with divine authority, inspiring and glorious... But they can never speak a lie. And, at any time the Angel can take command of their speech, giving a true divine command... Regardless of whether you want them to or not.
[12:06] <~Earthflame> The third order is the Hands, people who give their whole body to an Angel. They can fight with the strength of the divine, wielding swords of holy fire and being terrible to behold... But they begin to obviously become inhuman, with unnaturally pale skin and burning eyes, setting them apart from other humans. They cannot commit any form of sin.
[12:07] <~Earthflame> The fourth order, the greatest and most terrible, is the Wings. Humans whose bodies only exist as a vessel for an Angels power. They manifest wings of light and can fight demons to a standstill, true pillars of holy power... But to create a Wing, a human soul is lost. Forever. Instead of going on to the afterlife, they become permanently a part of that Angel, no longer existing as an
[12:07] <~Earthflame> independent entity, and their body is comatose when not being puppeted for war.
[12:08] <Read> *nods*
[12:08] <~Earthflame> Part of the setting was that Angels *hated* binding Humans to themselves. It hurt them to know they were destroying these free, beautiful creatures that God had created... But sometimes, they have to. And every human soul they're forced to consume is an eternal shame cast upon Heaven.
[12:08] <Ikiryo> ...it's probebly not a good thing that I concider that REALLY COOL.
[12:08] <~Earthflame> Hahaha
[12:09] <Ikiryo> Like, it keeps Angels actually GOOD without making them completely non-interventionist.
[12:09] <~Earthflame> I thought it was a neat solution.
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[12:10] <Ikiryo> ...and I'm 99% sure that if Sephia existed in that setting, she'd dive right for Wings. She didn't have a great self-worth.
[12:10] <~Earthflame> But yeah. If I ever did run that setting, Angelic Hands would be an alternate character option to Paladins of the Dark Heart.
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[12:10] <Read_> I LIVE
[12:11] <Read_> What'd I miss?
[12:11] <~Earthflame> The other interesting thing? Part of the idea of the setting was that every human paladin with a Dark Heart had a chance of becoming a true Angel. If they fought long enough and hard enough, proving their will and virtue, they could imprint their soul upon the Heart, purifying it and ascending to Heaven to battle by God's side.
[12:12] <~Earthflame> If they fell, however, they would create a more powerful Demon, tipping the scales the other way.
[12:12] <Read_> Ooooh, interesting :D
[12:12] <~Earthflame> So every personal story of a Paladin of the Dark Heart can tip the scales of the war in heaven.
[12:12] <~Earthflame> (...There's also rumours of a third way. Paladins who overcome the Demon... But do not go with God. Nobody is sure what to make of these strange beings, walking a path between Heaven and Hell, their true destination unknown.)
[12:14] <Read_> Interrrresting :D
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[12:27] <Read_> Hi ID!
[12:29] <SavageWolfDuchess> hi read
[12:45] <CelestialDoggie> [12:08] <Ikiryo> ...it's probebly not a good thing that I concider that REALLY COOL. <-- not especially a bad thing, IMO
[12:47] <SavageWolfDuchess> I like cool things
[12:49] <CelestialDoggie> lemme pastebin the conversation for you