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  1. Room 1
  2. [16:15] ★5gen: Today's CCAT will start the trend of incorporating the ZU Good Cores resource that Froasty runs in our builds. We will use the cores in this post: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/zeroused.3629669/page-9#post-7822884.
  3. [16:15] ★5gen: Using the sets directly is not a requirement. Alternatively, if you want to build around a different core, you must submit it through the Good Cores project (after the CCAT also works) for future CCATs.
  4. +Xayahh joined
  5. [16:19] Spooky Phobias was invited (and promoted to Room Voice) by 5gen.
  6. +Spooky Phobias joined
  7. [16:20] Aaronboyer was invited (and promoted to Room Voice) by 5gen.
  8. +Aaronboyer joined
  9. [16:21] Union Caboche was invited (and promoted to Room Voice) by 5gen.
  10. +Union Caboche joined
  11. [16:22] barba atun was invited (and promoted to Room Voice) by 5gen.
  12. +barba atun joined
  13. [16:23] ★5gen: i'll make a poll to vote on
  14. (The poll has ended – scroll down to see the results)
  15. (A poll was started by 5gen.)
  16. [16:26] superstrike66 was invited (and promoted to Room Voice) by 5gen.
  17. +superstrike66 joined
  18. (The poll timer was set to 3 minute(s) by 5gen.)
  19. The poll timer was turned on: the poll will end in 3 minute(s).
  20. [16:29] +Spooky Phobias: ight I'm here
  21. [16:29] ★5gen: welcome
  22. [16:29] +Spooky Phobias: Muk tang ftw
  23. [16:29] +superstrike66: I think that a balance team could be nice
  24. [16:29] +Spooky Phobias: also good job on making the decision on what cores we should build on 5gen
  25. [16:30] ★5gen: i copied the ones from the good cores post
  26. [16:30] Broken phobias: I'll be participating from my reg account fyi 5gen
  27. [16:30] Broken phobias: I will not revote on the poll though
  28. [16:30] ★5gen: sounds good man
  29. +Aaronboyer left
  30. Poll ended Which core should we build around
  31.  
  32. 1. Muk+Probopass (1 vote)
  33. 17%
  34. 2. Grumpig+Tangela (0 votes)
  35. 0%
  36. 3. Muk+Tangela (2 votes)
  37. 33%
  38. 4. Lickilicky+Pyukumuku (0 votes)
  39. 0%
  40. 5. Chatot+Probopass (1 vote)
  41. 17%
  42. 6. Probopass+Toucannon (1 vote)
  43. 17%
  44. 7. Carbink+Rampardos (1 vote)
  45. 17%
  46. 8. Purugly+Smeargle (0 votes)
  47. 0%
  48. [16:32] +superstrike66: tangelmuk sounds fun
  49. [16:32] +barba atun: it is winning now lol
  50. [16:32] ★5gen: So we're building around Muk+Tangela
  51. [16:33] ★5gen: any thoughts on the sets?
  52. [16:33] Broken phobias: I think we should give muk the standard set tbh
  53. [16:33] +barba atun: that is?
  54. [16:33] Broken phobias: but instead give it fire punch so we aren't restricted
  55. [16:33] +Union Caboche: cursemuk
  56. [16:33] +Union Caboche: !code
  57. See code...
  58. [16:33] +barba atun: oh
  59. [16:33] Broken phobias: make it 8 speed
  60. [16:34] Broken phobias: so it outspeeds other curse muk.
  61. [16:34] +barba atun: lol
  62. [16:34] ★5gen: neat tech
  63. [16:34] +superstrike66: should we do b-sluge as ability?
  64. [16:34] +superstrike66: *item
  65. [16:34] ★5gen: not atm
  66. [16:34] +Union Caboche: we could add probopass too
  67. [16:34] +superstrike66: alt
  68. [16:34] Broken phobias: this is lowkey super important when forced into that situation which is often
  69. [16:34] +superstrike66: let's add alt
  70. [16:34] ★5gen: because Pyukumuku can use block and soak
  71. [16:34] +barba atun: i think muk should run at least two physical attacks
  72. [16:34] ★5gen: black sludge would hurt muk
  73. [16:34] +Union Caboche: black sludge/leftovers is the same when the ability is sticky hold
  74. [16:35] Broken phobias: nah barba atun
  75. [16:35] +Union Caboche: yeah too
  76. [16:35] Broken phobias: run Fire punch over Poison Jab imo
  77. [16:35] +barba atun: if you face other muk lol
  78. +Aaronboyer joined
  79. [16:35] +superstrike66: p-jab and f-punch
  80. [16:36] +Union Caboche: we could build Something very bulky with probopass + alty
  81. [16:36] +Union Caboche: i dont like too much too bulky teams actually but that's an option
  82. [16:36] +superstrike66: bulky offense or balance
  83. [16:36] +Spooky Phobias: !code
  84. See code...
  85. [16:36] ★5gen: if we go muk+tang"probo
  86. [16:36] ★5gen: +*
  87. [16:37] ★5gen: then we'd probably be free to go pjab, but i'm not sure about going probo
  88. [16:37] +Spooky Phobias: I don't like Probo tbh
  89. [16:37] +Aaronboyer: probo makes sense for steel-trapping
  90. [16:37] +Spooky Phobias: it doesn't apply enough offensive pressure even with a Z-move
  91. [16:37] +Spooky Phobias: Why trap steels when we can run Fire Punch and hit everything
  92. [16:38] ★5gen: I also think that adding Probopass would make the team p slow
  93. [16:39] +superstrike66: I think alolan golem is better at trapping steels
  94. [16:39] +Union Caboche: there is actually a lot of fire resists
  95. [16:39] +Spooky Phobias: thats a legitimate concern
  96. [16:39] ★5gen: I'm open to adding Probo, but let's explore other mons
  97. [16:39] +Union Caboche: and it makes the match up against golem harder that it is already
  98. [16:39] +superstrike66: I think we need alt
  99. [16:39] +Spooky Phobias: superstrike66 we can add alt later
  100. [16:40] +Union Caboche: swanna looks less passive than altaria but i think yeah, we can talk about that later
  101. [16:40] +Spooky Phobias: right now we are focused on a pokemon to compliment our core
  102. [16:40] +superstrike66: there really run's that many steels in zu
  103. +Aaronboyer left
  104. [16:40] +Spooky Phobias: there are a few notable ones
  105. [16:41] +Union Caboche: yup but there are few ones though and bronzor is notably a pain to pass if you dont have any dedicaced answer
  106. [16:41] ★5gen: team so far https://pokepast.es/4de21337c7da0278
  107. [16:41] +Spooky Phobias: !dt golem
  108. (PU)
  109. GolemRock Head
  110. SturdySand VeilHP
  111. 80Atk
  112. 120Def
  113. 130SpA
  114. 55SpD
  115. 65Spe
  116. 45BST
  117. 495
  118. Dex#: 76 |  Gen: 1 |  Height: 1.4 m |  Weight: 300 kg (120 BP) |  Dex Colour: Brown |  Egg Group(s): Mineral |  Does Not Evolve
  119. [16:41] +Spooky Phobias: !dt probopass
  120. (PU)
  121. ProbopassSturdy
  122. Magnet PullSand ForceHP
  123. 60Atk
  124. 55Def
  125. 145SpA
  126. 75SpD
  127. 150Spe
  128. 40BST
  129. 525
  130. Dex#: 476 |  Gen: 4 |  Height: 1.4 m |  Weight: 340 kg (120 BP) |  Dex Colour: Gray |  Egg Group(s): Mineral |  Does Not Evolve
  131. [16:41] +barba atun: what about them
  132. [16:42] +Spooky Phobias: Golem is faster and applies more offensive pressure
  133. [16:42] +barba atun: as core?
  134. [16:42] ★5gen: hm
  135. [16:42] +Spooky Phobias: Furthermore, it has Sturdy for mid game if it needs it
  136. [16:42] +superstrike66: probo has worse attacking stats as well
  137. [16:42] +Spooky Phobias: however that leaves us lacking speed
  138. [16:42] +superstrike66: I think 1 of the golems is a better bet
  139. [16:43] +barba atun: it may work too
  140. [16:43] ★5gen: altaria doesn't complement the core a whole lot and neither does swanna defensively. swanna helps check things offensively for the core
  141. [16:44] +Spooky Phobias: Regular Golem is by far the best option if we look at the 2. If we want a faster rocker we can look towards the likes of either Dugtrio, Pinsir, Gabite, or monferno
  142. [16:44] ★5gen: the issue with adding golem or probo rn is that they can serve a purpose, but we need to make up for their weaknesses and lack of speed
  143. [16:45] +Spooky Phobias: I agree
  144. [16:45] +superstrike66: we need a flying type
  145. [16:45] +Spooky Phobias: otherwise our team can end up becoming to slow and thats an issue especially with the likes of Float and other threats
  146. [16:45] +barba atun: mm
  147. [16:45] ★5gen: why does the core need a flying-type?
  148. [16:45] +superstrike66: not the core
  149. [16:46] +superstrike66: just in general
  150. [16:46] +Spooky Phobias: 5gen I say we go for Gabite
  151. [16:46] +barba atun: could natu works?
  152. [16:46] +superstrike66: golem/probo adds another ground weakness, and r slow
  153. [16:46] +Spooky Phobias: or pinsir
  154. [16:47] +Spooky Phobias: guys lets not focus on flying types right now
  155. [16:47] ★5gen: sash pinsir can work
  156. [16:47] +barba atun: as lead?
  157. [16:47] +Spooky Phobias: I agree I prefer pinsir over gabite
  158. [16:47] ★5gen: gabite helps against fire types and physical attackers
  159. [16:47] ★5gen: especially komala
  160. [16:48] +Spooky Phobias: oh I didn't consider komala tbh
  161. [16:48] +superstrike66: I'm just throwing this out, but could vibrava work?
  162. [16:48] +Spooky Phobias: I think Gabite might be a bit better then since Muk can just come in on Ice attacks
  163. [16:48] ★5gen: not really, has a lot of downsides in this meta
  164. [16:48] +barba atun: the problem is the ice type i believe
  165. [16:48] +superstrike66: but I do like gabite as an option
  166. [16:49] +barba atun: i prefer gabite over sash pinser tbh
  167. (The poll has ended – scroll down to see the results)
  168. (A poll was started by 5gen.)
  169. [16:49] +Spooky Phobias: I do as well tbh Gabite seems to be the much better option
  170. (The poll timer was set to 2 minute(s) by 5gen.)
  171. The poll timer was turned on: the poll will end in 2 minute(s).
  172. [16:50] +superstrike66: I think the golems would be better as attackers, instead of rockers
  173. [16:50] +barba atun: we shoudl wait for the result of the pool lol
  174. Poll ended Which Pokemon should we add as the SR user?
  175.  
  176. 1. Gabite (4 votes)
  177. 100%
  178. 2. Golem-K (0 votes)
  179. 0%
  180. 3. Golem-A (0 votes)
  181. 0%
  182. 4. Probopass (0 votes)
  183. 0%
  184. 5. Pinsir (0 votes)
  185. 0%
  186. There is no poll running in this room.
  187. [16:51] +superstrike66: welp
  188. [16:52] +superstrike66: that was decisive
  189. +Xayahh left
  190. [16:52] +superstrike66: Ig its gable then
  191. [16:52] +Spooky Phobias: !code
  192. See code...
  193. [16:52] +barba atun: can we make it a tr team lol
  194. [16:52] +Spooky Phobias: we could run offensive or defensive gabite
  195. [16:53] +Spooky Phobias: I think Defensive is the better option
  196. [16:53] +superstrike66: ye
  197. [16:53] +barba atun: i prefer offensive lol
  198. [16:53] +superstrike66: I agree
  199. [16:53] +superstrike66: with defensive
  200. [16:53] ★5gen: offensive sounds cool
  201. [16:54] +barba atun: in my opinion the offensive set would give that lack of speed we have until now
  202. [16:54] +Spooky Phobias: I mean if we want to pressure komala we want defensive
  203. [16:54] +superstrike66: we can always add speed later
  204. [16:55] ★5gen: 252+ Atk Choice Band Komala Return vs. 176 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gabite: 159-187 (49.5 - 58.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  205. [16:55] +Spooky Phobias: that still hurts
  206. [16:55] +barba atun: oh
  207. [16:55] +barba atun: lol yeah
  208. [16:55] ★5gen: 252+ Atk Choice Band Komala Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Gabite: 238-282 (85.9 - 101.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
  209. [16:55] +barba atun: is 82 mediocre for a lead?
  210. [16:55] ★5gen: nah
  211. [16:56] +Spooky Phobias: so deffensive or offensive
  212. [16:56] +barba atun: i think the next poke we should look, must have an ice type resistance
  213. [16:56] +Spooky Phobias: Defensive imo
  214. [16:56] +barba atun: lets pool for it lol
  215. [16:57] +Spooky Phobias: since this defensive Gabite set is a soft check for Komala
  216. [16:57] ★5gen: 252+ Atk Choice Band Komala Return vs. 0 HP / 56 Def Eviolite Gabite: 220-259 (79.4 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  217. [16:58] ★5gen: I think we can go offensive Gabite with that spread
  218. [16:58] +Spooky Phobias: oh thats better
  219. [16:58] ★5gen: since either way komala will 2hko defensive
  220. [16:58] +Spooky Phobias: yea thats better imo
  221. [16:59] +superstrike66: so we're going defensive?
  222. [16:59] +Spooky Phobias: nah offensive
  223. [16:59] ★5gen: figuring out a spread
  224. [16:59] +Spooky Phobias: !code
  225. See code...
  226. [16:59] ★5gen: is it worth it going max speed?
  227. [16:59] +Spooky Phobias: um it outspeeds like
  228. [17:00] +Spooky Phobias: idk
  229. [17:00] +Spooky Phobias: probably not
  230. [17:00] ★5gen: !code
  231. See code...
  232. [17:00] ★5gen: jolly 200 hits 275 Speed
  233. [17:00] +Spooky Phobias: yes go max speed we want to outspeed ferno
  234. [17:01] +barba atun: for me thelast pasted set works fine
  235. [17:02] +superstrike66: ye
  236. [17:02] ★5gen: https://pokepast.es/7050a3f20ad81808
  237. [17:02] +superstrike66: it looks good
  238. [17:02] +Spooky Phobias: I think the next rational step is to add a remover
  239. [17:03] ★5gen: yeah probs
  240. [17:03] +superstrike66: Id say alt, but we already r really weak 2 ice
  241. [17:03] ★5gen: also need something for floatzel
  242. [17:03] +Spooky Phobias: I would instead say like Silvally water
  243. [17:03] +Spooky Phobias: with T-bolty
  244. [17:03] ★5gen: was thinking that too
  245. [17:03] +Spooky Phobias: its a Balance team staple rn with swanna and float arounbd
  246. [17:04] +Spooky Phobias: we are really abomasnow weak rn though
  247. [17:04] +superstrike66: I think watervally should be it
  248. [17:04] ★5gen: we all agree on Silvally-water?
  249. [17:04] +barba atun: defogger silvally water?
  250. [17:04] +superstrike66: ye
  251. [17:04] +barba atun: sure
  252. [17:05] +Spooky Phobias: yea its the defogger that makes the most sense based on our team
  253. [17:05] ★5gen: we going defog+u-turn
  254. [17:05] +Spooky Phobias: yea
  255. [17:05] ★5gen: makes sense
  256. [17:05] +barba atun: what is the set tho
  257. [17:05] +Spooky Phobias: !code
  258. See code...
  259. [17:05] ★5gen: !code
  260. See code...
  261. [17:06] ★5gen: that speed is for frostom though
  262. [17:06] +Spooky Phobias: ooh
  263. [17:06] +Spooky Phobias: you are right
  264. [17:06] +barba atun: why not parting shot ?
  265. [17:06] +superstrike66: metang
  266. [17:06] +Spooky Phobias: Pshot can be blocked by sound proof mons
  267. [17:06] +Spooky Phobias: plus its more beneficiall to get the chip on some pokemon
  268. [17:07] +barba atun: well i guess it works that way
  269. [17:07] +Spooky Phobias: 5gen what speed would you suggest?
  270. [17:07] ★5gen: thinking
  271. [17:08] ★5gen: can creep mime, but that takes away bulk and silv-water can't chunk it
  272. [17:08] ★5gen: we can creep jolly pinsir
  273. [17:08] +Spooky Phobias: yea that doesn't make sense especially if we want to take a Z-cane
  274. [17:08] ★5gen: 176+ should be enough for now, creeps Pinsir
  275. [17:09] +Spooky Phobias: 208 HP, 124 Spa, 176 speed,
  276. [17:09] +Spooky Phobias: Are we going timid
  277. [17:10] ★5gen: yeah
  278. [17:10] ★5gen: what's the 124 for?
  279. [17:10] +Spooky Phobias: Idk its from the orignal set that I posted
  280. [17:10] +Spooky Phobias: just gives it a decent amount of SpA without letting it fall short I suppose
  281. +Union Caboche left
  282. [17:12] ★5gen: what do you guys think? Is going 252 HP and 80 SpA or Defense better?
  283. [17:12] +Spooky Phobias: I like that better
  284. [17:12] ★5gen: can't seem to find what 124 SpA does in this meta
  285. [17:12] +Spooky Phobias: just so we can maintain its longevity
  286. [17:13] ★5gen: https://pokepast.es/f2a1fc150d0c6658
  287. [17:13] ★5gen: we need some offensive presence now
  288. [17:14] +Spooky Phobias: ye our last 2 slots will be a breaker and then a scarfer
  289. [17:14] ★5gen: specifically checks to Abomasnow, Floatzel, Swanna, etc
  290. [17:14] +superstrike66: Monferno with t-punch?
  291. [17:14] ★5gen: not really that reliable and it is slower than those water-types
  292. +Diagnostic joined
  293. [17:15] +Spooky Phobias: Scarf Electivire checks all of those
  294. [17:15] ★5gen: yeah
  295. [17:15] ★5gen: we as
  296. [17:15] ★5gen: also*
  297. [17:15] ★5gen: need a normal resist
  298. [17:16] +Spooky Phobias: we could run Band Dusknoir
  299. [17:17] ★5gen: unsure how good that would be
  300. [17:18] ★5gen: lacks strong stab and doesn't necessarily beat komala or bouff
  301. [17:18] +Diagnostic: 5gen, I'm here to save the day.
  302. [17:18] +Diagnostic: 124 SpA Silvally-Water Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 324-384 (100.9 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  303. [17:18] ★5gen: we aren't flamethrower though lol
  304. [17:18] ★5gen: was calcing 124 SpA for tbolt and surf
  305. [17:19] ★5gen: appreciate the calc though
  306. [17:19] +Spooky Phobias: we could run a gourgeist form
  307. [17:19] +Spooky Phobias: or Pawniard
  308. [17:19] +Spooky Phobias: or offensive Mawhile
  309. [17:20] +superstrike66: wait
  310. [17:20] +Spooky Phobias: we are very weak to EQ though
  311. [17:20] +Spooky Phobias: but tang can patch that up
  312. [17:21] +superstrike66: if we run 'vire, why don't we run thrower on silvally?
  313. [17:21] +Diagnostic: You don't need any SpA to 2HKO Floatzel or relevant Surf Targets.
  314. [17:21] ★5gen: if we go Gourgeist-XL
  315. [17:21] +Diagnostic: Meaning invest fully into bulj.
  316. [17:21] +Diagnostic: Bulk.
  317. [17:21] ★5gen: we'd have to replace Tangela, which we kind of can't since it's part of the core
  318. [17:21] +Spooky Phobias: yea I don't like that idea
  319. [17:22] ★5gen: we can always go back to the golem idea
  320. [17:22] +Diagnostic: Preferably enough to live a +1 AoP (Focus Punch) from Floatzel.
  321. [17:22] +Diagnostic: After rocks.
  322. [17:22] ★5gen: but that gets bopped by sd bouff, eq komala, and viggy
  323. [17:22] +Spooky Phobias: are we adding Scarf Vire
  324. [17:22] +Spooky Phobias: and focusing on a normal reisist
  325. [17:23] ★5gen: yeah that sounds good
  326. +Diagnostic joined; +Diagnostic left
  327. [17:23] +superstrike66: Drifblim?
  328. [17:24] ★5gen: https://pokepast.es/8ec9750d8819adfe
  329. [17:24] +Spooky Phobias: okay hear me out what if we ran Cro Carbink
  330. [17:24] Froasty was invited (and promoted to Room Voice) by 5gen.
  331. +Froasty joined
  332. [17:24] ★5gen: desperately need a normal check
  333. [17:24] +Froasty: Where we at so far and on which core?
  334. [17:24] +Spooky Phobias: actually scratch that
  335. [17:25] ★5gen: muk+tangela
  336. [17:25] ★5gen: https://pokepast.es/8ec9750d8819adfe
  337. [17:25] +superstrike66: can we run fire punch on vire instead?
  338. [17:25] ★5gen: over ice punch?
  339. [17:25] +superstrike66: ye
  340. [17:25] +Spooky Phobias: why
  341. [17:25] +Froasty: EQ > Cross chop
  342. [17:26] ★5gen: that's what i usually run
  343. [17:26] +superstrike66: or flamethrower on silvally?
  344. [17:26] ★5gen: but seeing as how we're weak to bouffalant, komala, and viggy
  345. [17:26] ★5gen: thought cross chop would help
  346. [17:27] ★5gen: i've been thinking about
  347. [17:27] +Spooky Phobias: banded Sudowoodo
  348. [17:27] ★5gen: !dt lycanroc-m
  349. No Pokémon, item, move, ability or nature named 'lycanroc-m' was found. Showing the data of 'Lycanroc-Dusk' instead.
  350. RU
  351. Lycanroc-DuskTough ClawsHP
  352. 75Atk
  353. 117Def
  354. 65SpA
  355. 55SpD
  356. 65Spe
  357. 110BST
  358. 487
  359. Dex#: 745 |  Gen: 7 |  Height: 0.8 m |  Weight: 25 kg (60 BP) |  Dex Colour: Brown |  Egg Group(s): Field |  Does Not Evolve
  360. [17:27] +Spooky Phobias: that sounds heat af ngl
  361. [17:27] ★5gen: rip
  362. [17:27] ★5gen: !dt lycanroc-midnight
  363. (PU)
  364. Lycanroc-MidnightKeen Eye
  365. Vital SpiritNo GuardHP
  366. 85Atk
  367. 115Def
  368. 75SpA
  369. 55SpD
  370. 75Spe
  371. 82BST
  372. 487
  373. Dex#: 745 |  Gen: 7 |  Height: 1.1 m |  Weight: 25 kg (60 BP) |  Dex Colour: Red |  Egg Group(s): Field |  Does Not Evolve
  374. [17:27] +Spooky Phobias: true
  375. [17:27] +Spooky Phobias: but that defense though
  376. [17:28] ★5gen: mhm
  377. [17:28] ★5gen: was thinking band or something
  378. [17:28] ★5gen: crustle may also work
  379. [17:28] ★5gen: if we go with a slower threat
  380. [17:29] ★5gen: we'd only really have evire for revenge killing
  381. [17:29] +superstrike66: crustle would be a nice setup 'mon
  382. [17:29] +Spooky Phobias: lycan is the best bet tbh
  383. [17:30] ★5gen: what do you guys think as sixth?
  384. [17:30] +superstrike66: Crustle Is nice
  385. [17:30] +Froasty: Could use avalugg with roar if you really need to stop bouf/kom
  386. [17:30] +Spooky Phobias: I really like Sudowoodo tbh but Lycan is our best bet
  387. [17:30] +Froasty: Since avalugg outbulks anything they throw at it
  388. [17:31] +Spooky Phobias: that is true
  389. [17:31] +Froasty: It'll stop sub vigs from being set up on you, although you still need a way to cripple or kill taunt vigs
  390. [17:31] +superstrike66: use Vigo
  391. [17:31] +superstrike66: the thing's a beast
  392. [17:32] +Spooky Phobias: 5gen lets put golem over gabite tbh
  393. [17:32] +Spooky Phobias: and then just put something fast for our last slot
  394. [17:32] ★5gen: I need to head out guys, sorry that i can't finish the team
  395. [17:32] +Spooky Phobias: a fast breaker
  396. [17:32] +Spooky Phobias: ight peace
  397. <<<Missing logs>>>
  398. [17:44:06] +Spooky Phobias: it is way to fragile
  399. [17:44:22] +Froasty: No252+ Atk Choice Band Komala Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dugtrio-Alola: 190-224 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
  400. [17:44:39] +barba atun: how much it deal on the tangela set
  401. [17:44:49] +barba atun: please
  402. [17:44:58] +Spooky Phobias: tang won't switch in because of the fear of knock off
  403. [17:45:08] +Froasty: Knock and 252+ Atk Choice Band Komala Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Tangela: 148-175 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  404. [17:45:14] +Froasty: Offensive tang doesn't stop it so well
  405. [17:46:45] +Spooky Phobias: I saw we go golem over Gabite then put on a breaker
  406. [17:47:08] +barba atun: okay i dont mind the change
  407. [17:47:13] +barba atun: is fine by me
  408. [17:47:22] +superstrike66: that sounds fine
  409. [17:47:26] +superstrike66: I gtg tho
  410. [17:47:32] +Spooky Phobias: ight
  411. [17:47:38] +superstrike66: can some1 pm the team when done?
  412. [17:47:40] +Spooky Phobias: yea
  413. [17:47:42] +superstrike66: ok
  414. [17:47:46] +superstrike66: thx!
  415. [17:47:50] +superstrike66: cya
  416. +superstrike66 left
  417. [17:48:18] +Spooky Phobias: what golem set do you think would work best here?
  418. [17:48:27] +Froasty: Just kind of going to depend on outpredicting then?
  419. [17:48:27] +Spooky Phobias: probably lefties defensive right
  420. [17:48:34] +Spooky Phobias: I mean
  421. [17:48:47] +Spooky Phobias: I think that adding Avalugg is not the play
  422. [17:49:46] +Froasty: Could always try a different core too if this isn't working
  423. [17:49:57] +Spooky Phobias: I think it works fine
  424. [17:50:09] +Froasty: Well, it's kind of having trouble stopping komala
  425. [17:50:35] +Spooky Phobias: I'm gonna pull up a calc and figure it out
  426. [17:51:57] +barba atun: i think ava is the man
  427. [17:51:57] +Spooky Phobias: I think our best bet is out predicting komala
  428. [17:53:33] +Froasty: Don't want to just outbulk it?
  429. [17:54:25] +Froasty: Hm, alright, it'll need a fatter tangela tho
  430. [17:54:38] +Spooky Phobias: My issue with avalugg is if we add it our only revenger killer is electivire and the teams becomes passive
  431. [17:56:12] +Spooky Phobias: alright lets add avalugg
  432. [17:56:14] +Froasty: I was suggesting stepping back to the point of just the core and avalugg and re-evaluating from a position of having a dedicated normal answer
  433. [17:57:04] +Froasty: Muk being a safe float switch in to start and identify the set, then you can work with tangela if it's physical
  434. [17:57:09] +Spooky Phobias: now that I think about it Avalugg shouldn't be to much of an iissue
  435. [17:57:25] +Spooky Phobias: yea Froasty I see what you are saying
  436. [17:58:19] +Froasty: So rn we would after that need an answer to taunt vig
  437. [18:00:09] +Spooky Phobias: hold on where are you currently '
  438. [18:00:22] +Spooky Phobias: in terms of what does the team look like for you
  439. [18:00:34] +Froasty: I stepped all the way back to the core and avalugg so we could reconsider from the beginning
  440. +Diagnostic left
  441. [18:00:47] +Spooky Phobias: oof
  442. [18:00:59] +Froasty: I do that a lot when building
  443. [18:01:18] +Froasty: !ds oblivious, zu
  444. Illumise, Jynx, Lickilicky, Wailord, Walrein, Whiscash
  445. [18:01:19] +Spooky Phobias: I kept the team and just took off the rocker and added avalugg
  446. [18:01:47] +Froasty: I heard wailord is spicy tech
  447. [18:01:57] +Spooky Phobias: !ds stealth Rock, Oblivious, Zu
  448. No Pokémon found.
  449. [18:02:58] +Froasty: Idk, we can figure out a rocker in a minute. Just focusing on not taking the L to taunt vig rn
  450. +barba atun left
  451. [18:03:54] +Froasty: Other choice is to have switcheroo/trick support
  452. [18:04:00] +Froasty: In which case you'd probably want a specszel
  453. +Diagnostic joined
  454. [18:05:24] +Froasty: Thoughts?
  455. [18:05:29] +Spooky Phobias: I'm not sure
  456. [18:06:19] +Spooky Phobias: whats the Avalugg set?
  457. +barba atun joined
  458. [18:06:31] +Froasty: Avalanche/Roar/Spin/Recover
  459. [18:06:54] +barba atun: roar for?
  460. [18:07:00] +Spooky Phobias: sub viggy
  461. [18:07:25] +barba atun: i think muk - avalug complements very good
  462. [18:07:53] +Froasty: One minute, I can't invite people to here
  463. [18:08:02] +Froasty: «groupchat-froasty-26949749»
  464. [18:08:03] +barba atun: i usually plays up to 4 walls that complements each ther
  465. [18:08:16] +barba atun: i think it has your name
  466. [18:08:23] +barba atun: or is your own room
  467. [18:08:24] +Froasty: More people can get in on it if we go in there
  468. [18:08:36] +barba atun: you just type
  469. [18:08:42] +barba atun: ./invite usenarme
  470. [18:08:45] +Froasty: You can't
  471. [18:08:50] +Spooky Phobias: yea gotta do username
  472. [18:08:51] +barba atun: who you want to invite
  473. [18:08:56] +barba atun: for example
  474. [18:09:01] +Froasty: You have to be able to room voice to get them in here
  475. [18:09:04] +barba atun: let me give a try
  476. [18:09:05] +Froasty: And Only 5gen can
  477. [18:09:25] +Spooky Phobias: Froasty You have to invite us to your chat
  478. [18:09:36] +Spooky Phobias: we cant just have the link m8
  479. [18:09:41] +barba atun: yeah i cant invite other peole here
  480. [18:10:33] +Froasty: I invited you and Diagnostic to a different chat
  481.  
  482. Room 2
  483. [18:43:49] ★Froasty: First, let's pick a 6th mon on the 5gen team, then build stall on a different team
  484. [18:44:00] ★Froasty: !code
  485. See code...
  486. [18:44:11] ★Froasty: 6th mon for this?
  487. [18:44:26] ★Froasty: @ Diagnostic lovechants Skipkan a dog journey
  488. [18:45:49] +Diagnostic: Slap on a Z-Floatzel.
  489. [18:46:03] ★Froasty: Physical?
  490. [18:46:08] ★Froasty: Special?
  491. [18:48:04] +Diagnostic: Physical.
  492. [18:48:19] ★Froasty: Bulk up, Taunt 3 attacks or 4 attacks?
  493. [18:48:35] ★Froasty: And mixed or not mixed?
  494. [18:48:45] ★Froasty: Probably not mixed, mb
  495. [18:49:18] +Diagnostic: You can opt for BU + 2 attacks since the core covers most of the new drops bar Komala well.
  496. [18:49:26] ★Froasty: Alright
  497. [18:49:53] +Diagnostic: Plus it lets you bypass some of the issues to the team easier by breaking down defensive cores.
  498. +Spooky Phobias joined
  499. [18:50:48] ★Froasty: Okay, so here's the completed version with 5gen's, now we can make an alternate stall version https://pokepast.es/2e1913c5c6441eb6
  500. [18:51:14] ★Froasty: Which I think probo/muk/pyuk/licki/tangela would be all required pretty much for the stall version
  501. [18:52:59] ★Froasty: I'll run a couple minor fixes on the evs/ivs rq for the old one
  502. +lovechants left
  503. [18:53:51] ★Froasty: Not sure what the speed is for
  504. [18:54:00] ★Froasty: On gabite
  505. [18:54:17] a dog journey: wasnt 200?
  506. [18:54:29] ★Froasty: 200+, not sure what getting to 275 is doing
  507. [18:56:05] a dog journey: i dont get you
  508. [18:56:08] a dog journey: 275 of?
  509. [18:56:16] ★Froasty: That's the speed after evs
  510. [18:56:28] a dog journey: oh
  511. [18:56:32] a dog journey: too slow?
  512. [18:56:38] ★Froasty: Not sure what that's doing, since the next lowest benchmark I can think of is ada 252 alt
  513. [18:56:45] ★Froasty: or ada 252 pinsir
  514. [18:57:46] a dog journey: yeah you are right 200 adamant is 250 speed
  515. [18:58:11] ★Froasty: Which is 2 points too slow if we go impish/adamant for kom
  516. [18:58:51] a dog journey: just 1 below if you are facing jolly komala
  517. [18:59:13] a dog journey: oh do you mean 252 to suprass koma
  518. [18:59:17] ★Froasty: Yeah
  519. [18:59:35] a dog journey: 208 gabite should work fine then
  520. [18:59:59] ★Froasty: Do we want to stay offensive or invest more in bulk?
  521. [19:00:53] +Diagnostic: Why does the stall variant of the team drop to Taunt SD Monferno, Komala, Regigigas, and other stallbreakers?
  522. [19:01:06] ★Froasty: It beats regi with muk actually
  523. [19:01:28] ★Froasty: Literal only way to do that and also consistently stop a servine
  524. [19:01:36] +Diagnostic: Don't you have to curse up with it as soon as it comes in?
  525. [19:01:42] a dog journey: yeah
  526. [19:01:45] ★Froasty: Pretty much, but that's all it does anyway
  527. [19:02:13] ★Froasty: We'll just leave the gabite offensive and modify the evs, ja
  528. +Diagnostic left
  529. [19:03:35] a dog journey: lyeah should work
  530. [19:04:25] ★Froasty: https://pokepast.es/56d5783c984df55c
  531. [19:05:00] ★Froasty: Then the stall variant
  532. [19:05:19] ★Froasty: Tangela/Muk/licki/pyuk/probo and one way to deal with what diag just said
  533. +Diagnostic joined
  534. [19:05:53] +Skipkan: the 6th slot must also remove hazards
  535. [19:06:08] ★Froasty: Yeah, so a silvally or avalugg pretty much ig
  536. [19:06:31] ★Froasty: Fightvally or avalugg
  537. [19:06:50] ★Froasty: @ Diagnostic thoughts?
  538. [19:06:52] +Skipkan: why not altaria?
  539. [19:07:02] ★Froasty: Komala bait
  540. [19:07:21] ★Froasty: Plus taunt sd monferno stops it unfortunately
  541. [19:07:43] ★Froasty: Flyinium does slightly better ig
  542. [19:07:53] ★Froasty: So we could do the flyinium alt?
  543. [19:08:01] ★Froasty: Flyinium Alt / Avalugg / Fightvally
  544. [19:08:15] ★Froasty: One of those
  545. [19:08:22] +Diagnostic: Watervally.
  546. [19:08:32] ★Froasty: Just kind of accept the kom weakness?
  547. [19:08:35] +Diagnostic: With tbolt
  548. [19:08:38] +Diagnostic: And yeah
  549. [19:08:47] ★Froasty: Alright, at least full phys def tangela then
  550. [19:09:00] +Diagnostic: You really cant stop komala using stall tactics without dedicating the team around it.
  551. [19:09:09] +Diagnostic: Better off focusing on other MU's
  552. [19:10:06] ★Froasty: Alright. We can at least use my pyuk in order to overcome Mimes and taunt
  553. [19:10:35] a dog journey: pyumuku?
  554. [19:10:39] ★Froasty: Yeah
  555. [19:13:02] ★Froasty: @ Diagnostic any specific set on the watervally?
  556. [19:13:11] ★Froasty: U-turn, defog and?
  557. +Diagnostic joined; +Diagnostic left
  558. [19:13:31] +Diagnostic: surf tbolt
  559. [19:13:56] ★Froasty: Any specific benchmarks it needs to hit for speed or special attack outside of outspeeding abomasnow?
  560. [19:14:12] ★Froasty: Which unfortunately sd aboma breaks the team
  561. [19:14:20] ★Froasty: Unless flamethrower gets used
  562. [19:16:28] +Diagnostic: You can opt for 3 attacks + defog.
  563. [19:16:54] +Diagnostic: If you want to keep bulkiness but be able to check Abomasnow and Floatzel.
  564. [19:16:58] ★Froasty: Is that optimal? Do we need surf for anything in particular
  565. [19:17:53] +Diagnostic: Surf is your best option versus the Fire Types that can annoy your team.
  566. [19:18:07] +Diagnostic: So yeah, it's optimal.
  567. [19:18:16] ★Froasty: ic, doesn't counter pyuk deal with those too?
  568. [19:18:22] +Diagnostic: Not exactly.
  569. [19:18:36] +Diagnostic: Counter pyuk is mainly a tool versus komala.
  570. [19:19:16] ★Froasty: Hm, alright. Phys or SpD on pyuk btw?
  571. [19:20:02] ★Froasty: And which defense do we want watervally boosted on?
  572. [19:21:09] ★Froasty: Nearly done after those are figured out
  573. [19:21:46] +Diagnostic: Phys pyuku
  574. [19:21:51] +Diagnostic: Def watervally
  575. [19:22:15] +Diagnostic: Specs can be handled by muk to an extent and never secures the 2hko on watervally invested in HP.
  576. [19:22:27] ★Froasty: 252 HP / 72+ Def / 124 SpA / 60 Spe
  577. [19:22:31] ★Froasty: All good on that?
  578. [19:30:07] ★Froasty: [19:29:38] +Diagnostic: Its good
  579. [19:30:22] ★Froasty: Alright, here's the alternate https://pokepast.es/145ac1e12e9b3bd5
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